Lewis Hamilton, Mark Webber, Spa-Francorchamps, 2016

Hamilton could’ve made more of his season – Webber

F1 Fanatic Round-up

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In the round-up: Lewis Hamilton hasn’t made as much of the chances he’s had this year as his team mate, Mark Webber says.

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  • 65 comments on “Hamilton could’ve made more of his season – Webber”

    1. D.Kvyat should be mute about anything dismissive about F1, that’s not the way to get a good reputation in F1 and the teams.

      1. I disagree, Its refreshing to hear this stuff. Yeah he has no filter but thats what makes it good

      2. It’s completely disgraceful that driver briefings are reduced to that. F1 is so restrictive nowadays that the FIA feels the need to be like that. Can you imagine Prost, Senna, Piquet and Mansell and the drivers before them having to put up with that? God almighty…

      3. It’s weird I think to wish a driver is mute about their opinions.

    2. He couldn’t even make a corner, let alone the whole season.

    3. I understand European journos are used to having everything perfectly suited and all confortable. But I would really prefer to go to Interlagos any day than to visit the German Tilkedrome called Hockenheim, the Austrian Tilkedrome called A1 Ring, or any Asian Tilkedromes. The best races are always in Brazil (and of course in other classic tracks such as Spa, Suzuka and Canada). Those 4 races should never miss a place in the F1 calendar. Yeah, you can put Silverstone, Monaco and Monza up there too, but in my humble opinion, the best races almost every year happen in those 4 mentioned at the beginning: Spa, Suzuka, Ile Notre-Dame and Interlagos.

      1. Yeah I think, given their lot in life, it’s a bit rich to be complaining so much.

    4. Dear Mr. Webber,

      Exactly.

      Love,
      The Duke

      1. It actually sounds more like his career at Red Bull.

    5. A common theme this season has been various commentators and journos saying “Lewis is on it, he’s on it”.

      I understand that to be that he has been inconsistent. Fair comment? Reliability aside, like Webber said, he hasnt got the most out of some weekends. No point moaning about it, this is racing, it happens.

      Like any championship, this is a marathon. The driver who has most points at the end of the season, wins the title. Doesn’t matter how he gets there, just that he is. Jose Mourinho was often criticized in the past for drilling his teams to eke results out, at times not entirely visually pleasing, but he won, and thats all that matters.

      One of the key aspects of the great drivers of the past such as Fangio, Prost, Schumacher et al was their consistency.

      1. What annoys me though is neither has Rosberg. It’s not as if Rosberg has extracted every ounce of performance out of the car either like Webber suggests. Bar that mechanical DNF of Hamilton’s they are actually incredibly evenly matched in terms of their performance this year.

        1. Honestly, I think Rosberg has performed better this year than he has in the previous 3 seasons against Hamilton. He has extracted the most he could and capitalised on every opportunity. But, I do not buy your argument that one mechanical DNF has been the difference. Let’s take a look at the break up of mechanical woes faced by both the Mercedes drivers –

          China – Gearbox penalty before quali. Hamilton starts in P22 and works himself up to P7 on raceday. I’ll give benefit of the doubt to Rosberg saying that he would have still won the race despite Hamilton starting in P22. Assume that Lewis would have finished that weekend in P2. So let’s say points lost by Hamilton due to mechanical problems – -12

          Russia – Hamilton starts in P10 due to problems in quali again. He finishes in P2 though, so limits his damage to a mere seven points. Again, I’m going to give the benefit of the doubt to Rosberg saying that he would have won the race regardless of Hamilton’s problems. So points lost due to mechanical problems – 0

          Austria – Rosberg had mechanical problems for a change and managed to finish the race in P4 despite leading it at one point. Again, I’m going to give the benefit of the doubt to Rosberg and say he would have finished in P2 if it wasn’t for his problem. Points gained by Hamilton due to mechanical problems faced by Rosberg – +6

          Britain – Rosberg has gearbox problems in the race while in P2, but still manages to finish in P2. Points gained by Hamilton 0

          Belgium – Hamilton starts from P22 due to gearbox and engine penalty and works himself up to P3. For the 3rd time, I’m going to give the benefit of the doubt to Rosberg, and say he would have won the race despite Lewis’ problems – Points lost by Hamilton – -3

          Malaysia – Hamilton stormed to pole and a commanding lead on raceday, only for a mechanical failure to rob him of the win. Rosberg finished on the podium due to his teammate’s failure, resulting in a further gain of 3 points to his tally. Points lost by Hamilton – -28

          Net points lost by Hamilton – -37

          Now, if you look at the current points difference between Hamilton and Rosberg, it is 19 points. If it wasn’t for mechanical problems, Lewis would be leading the championship by 18 points going in to the last 2 races of the season.

          I honestly believe that so far this year Hamilton has been more deserving of the WDC. I also get the feeling that people calling Rosberg a ‘worthy’ champion is more like giving a pity vote to him for trying so hard this year after losing the last 2 WDCs. If we were to call this championship purely based on performance between the 2 Merc drivers, I find it ridiculous that people say Rosberg deserves it based purely on his performance vs his teammate.

          1. Good analysis…. Now let me flip it on its head, Hamilton won Austria, Silverstone, Germany and Hungary before the penalty. Without the Engine Penalty Lewis will continue to batter Nico because of the moment, Spa brought Rosberg back into runner and gave him the confidence…

          2. When you keep giving the benefit of doubt that the result would have remained unchanged irrespective of the issues during qualifying or the race, then taking the pains to list out some of the issues the drivers experienced, becomes pointless.
            If you dont see these mechanical issues as factors that could affect the outcome of qualifying, and the respective races, we could easily arrive at the same conclusion as you did by looking at the points table.

          3. The vast majority of those 37 points come from the Malaysia DNF. Besides that it would put them on pretty equal footing, which is why I said they’ve been incredibly evenly matched in terms of their performance… If you don’t buy the argument on that fact alone then sorry, but I guess my salesmanship skills are lacking.

            I don’t know why you’re even disagreeing because we agree on core premise, being opposed to Webber’s comments that is…

            I also get the feeling that people calling Rosberg a ‘worthy’ champion is more like giving a pity vote to him

            I don’t get that feeling at all. The people who are saying it know how hard it is… Especially Webber who knows exactly how hard it is to go up against a faster team mate in the top machinery.

          4. +1
            Well reasoned argument pointing out that even if Rosberg had won each of the races where Hamiltons qualifying was affected by reliability, Hamilton would be leading the championship by a healthy margin.
            Does this mean Rosberg is not a deserving champion? An many posters have pointed out, the one with the most points deserves to win.
            But I do think we the fans have been denied a fight this season, if you add all the mechanical issues and poor starts from both, they have seldom been together on track. Would be nice to see a good race long fight between the two at some point in the last races.

            1. it’s settled then – Hamilton’s clearly leading the MVP award (Moral Victory Principle).
              Now can we get back to wasting time listening to the trumpgas gurgling?

          5. No-one ever seems to count the points lost by Rosberg in Spain when he was taken out from the lead! Hmm I wonder why that is.

            1. If your still wondering about something quite so absurd, I suggest you visit a doctor. A special kind of doctor.

            2. That’s because no one is counting racing incidents. Just mechanical problems and failures.

            3. Considering Rosberg had the momentum at that time as well, and thats the part people ignore the most.

            4. Let’s add it for the sake of the argument @asanator.
              Let’s imagine Rosberg wins in Spain. Points lost by Hamilton – -7

              So Net points lost by Hamilton – -30

              Now, if you look at the current points difference between Hamilton and Rosberg, it is 19 points. If it wasn’t for mechanical problems, Lewis would be leading the championship by 11 points going in to the last 2 races of the season.

              It doesn’t change the conclusion of @todfod reasoning.

            5. He was taken out? He threw his teammate into the grass to avoid being overtaken and lose at least 7 points. If anything he gained because there was no way he would have held the lead.
              He should consider himself lucky he didn’t get a heavy fine for throwing a car into the grass in a straight because the stewards probably wanted to avoid getting messed up in the Merc rivalry.

    6. I agree that Hamilton hasn’t extracted the most from this season that was possible. But to suggest Rosberg has is nonsense. He’s had poor weekends just as Hamilton has done. The thing that is ultimately setting them apart has been incidents of reliability.

      Neither driver has had a remarkable season to be honest. They’ve each had remarkable races and they’ve each had disappointingly weak races. But you throw one DNF from the lead to balance the random luck we’ve had on one of Rosberg’s results and we end up with an entirely different story.

      The fact that neither Hamilton or Rosberg have really faced each other much on track much is testament to how inconsistent they’ve both been. So I’ll agree with Webber that Hamilton has squandered chances, but let’s not pretend that Rosberg’s season has been impeccable. Along with Vettel, the three of them have all been pretty weak this year. Ricciardo and Alonso have been the stand out performers.

      1. No Ricciardo has not had a stand out season, look at his performances at Can, Baku, Austria, Silverstone, Italy and Japan, all races that he was very poor in.

        And Alonso, really?

        1. Alonso is 10th in the drivers championship in the 6th, maybe even 7th best car.

          Ricciardo has the most podium finishes of any none Mercedes driver and more second place finishes than even them which is the crucial stat. When the Mercedes drivers have botched things, he’s been the one there to collect.

      2. Yep, my thought too @philipgb, one only has to look at Spain, Monaco, Canada to see that Rosberg hasn’t got everything out of it either.

    7. I’m wondering if we will see a Grosjean and Magnussen line up for Haas in 2017. Honestly, since the mid point of the season, Guttierez hasn’t been all that bad. Considering Guttierez has the Ferrari connection it couldn’t be all the ridiculous to see Magnussen and Guttierez paired up against each other as well.

      1. Honestly, since the mid point of the season, Guttierez hasn’t been all that bad

        @todfod – I’m not sure if this is because Gutiérrez has actually upped his game, or because either Grosjean or the Haas car underperformed in the second half. Grosjean had definitely performed better than Gutiérrez in the first half, bring in 28 of their 29 points in that period.

        Also, its not just Gutiérrez who has a Ferrari connection as a former test driver, is it? Grosjean was tipped as a potential successor to Kimi’s seat before Kimi’s contract was extended.

        1. Also, its not just Gutiérrez who has a Ferrari connection as a former test driver, is it? Grosjean was tipped as a potential successor to Kimi’s seat before Kimi’s contract was extended.

          That was just speculation. As far as I know, there is no official connection between Grosjean and Ferrari

        2. Lewisham Milton
          11th November 2016, 9:43

          Formula E is full of not-all-that-bad drivers.

        3. @phylyp
          Overall yes, I think overall Grosjean has outperformed Gutierrez, but just not by much. If we think about it, well Over 50% of Grosjeans points were scored in the first 2 races when the car was much more competitive. I am sure Gutierrez could have managed at leased a few points in one or both of those races but in Australia, he had reliability issues, then got knocked out by Alonso. Then, In Bahrain, had reliability issues yet again which caused him to retire again. Such as shame as Hass were far more competitive in those 2 races. But yes, overall, Grosjean certainly did appear better in the 1st half of the season. What was very strange though is that when both drivers have finished, Gutierrez has been the one to finish ahead more often. He seems to perform better than Grosjean when the car is worse. There was one point this year where he had a big chunk of 11th place finishes and I think Grosjean was behind him in most of them.

          I certainly think Gutierrez should have several points now though. there have been several races where I feel he could have had the chance to get some. But he seems to have been performing better when the car really struggles to reach the points. Grosjean to me just hasn’t been performing that well this season. I’m sure he will get better though. But I would also want Gutierrez to have another chance.

        1. @phylyp

          Yes! Not going to complain about a Grosjean – KMag pairing.

    8. Got to say, Webber knows a thing or two about that.

    9. No Mark,, Rosberg has not extracted everything, or have you conveniently forgotten about Monaco, Canada and Spain. Seem the armchair critics are having a hard time admitting that the points difference between Hamilton and Rosberg is reliability. That’s is not to say Nico doesn’t deserve the championship if he gets it.

      1. Roth Man (@rdotquestionmark)
        11th November 2016, 9:17

        I would agree with Mark that Nico has performed to the best of his ability whereas Lewis has seemed a little distant at times. But yes ultimately even Lewis at 90% would have been good enough to beat Nico had it not been for reliability.

        1. @realstig Webber an armchair critic? How?

          @rdotquestionmark I think you’re fairly optimistic in thinking a Hamilton at 90% would still win the championship. If that was the case even with his reliability woes he would have wrapped up the title quicker. Out of the 3 seasons Rosberg has managed to keep the title fight alive until the last race in 2014 and 2016. That hardly tells the story you’re claiming it to be.

          1. Roth Man (@rdotquestionmark)
            11th November 2016, 11:29

            I have no idea what you’re nit picking at but I was simply saying I’ve felt Lewis hasn’t quite been 100% this year, I used the number 90 as an arbitrary guesstimate. But even him not being at his very best he’s still outperformed Nico generally and reliability being the difference in points. Not sure why you’re referencing other seasons or what you mean by a story I claim it to be.

            1. Roth Man (@rdotquestionmark)
              11th November 2016, 11:37

              Funnily enough Lewis has scored roughly 10% more points than Nico in their time together so 90% wasn’t a bad guess.

          2. @xtwl
            In 2014 Rosberg kept it going to the end of the season by starting with a 25 point head start, Hamilton’s brakes exploding in qualifying, his car setting on fire in qualifying, and finally hitting him and taking him out of the race at Spa.

            In 2014 every time Hamilton got a clean run he dominated Rosberg except for maybe Austria and Brazil.

    10. Can someone enlighten me what Buxton means? Interlagos still under construction?

      1. @hahostolze – By “unfinished” he doesn’t mean incomplete or under construction. Rather, the “finish” is not smooth and perfect, it is a bit shabby, unlike Yas Marina which feels pristine (probably best exemplified by this tweet).

      2. @hahostolze, the circuit owners had started on a multi-phase renovation of most of the facilities at Interlagos, with the first phase undertaken from 2014 to 2015 and the next phase of works – a long overdue expansion of the garage space and the paddock facilities – was due to be undertaken from 2015 through to this year.

        I guess that the reference that Will Buxton has made to the circuit being “unfinished” was a reference to the fact that, having posted pictures which showed workmen still working on fitting out the garages, the circuit owners are still working on getting the circuit ready for the race during the race weekend itself.

    11. No Webber, Rosberg isn’t leading because he has extracted more out of the season, it’s because his car has been fully reliable compared to his teammate. And even with that 100% reliability, he’s only better in one category, and that’s wins.

      Rosberg has finished 18 of 19, won 9, 8 poles and 14 podiums in total

      Lewis, 17 of 19, 8 wins, 10 poles and 15 podiums…

      This notion that the ‘new and improved nico’ thing is a joke. He’s always had pace. Lewis has always had more. He’s improved as much as any driver does when a car suits them a bit more.

      If he wins, he wins & I’ll give him credit, but don’t try and do so by trampling all over Lewis and make it look as if he wasn’t focused on the task at hand. This season is not about Lewis not living up to his abilities, this is about the continuous failure of the tools he has been given.

      I know many of you will talk about bad starts and all, but whilst you’re doing so, talk about the good ones where he has gained. Talk about the fact they’ve both had bad starts, talk about the clutch which has been one of mercedes’ biggest problems going back to Spain last year. Last year showed, when the car works reliably, Rosberg is no match for him.

      But I get it, it’s all about validation, just like they’ve been asking and writing numerous articles as to whether or not he’d be a worthy champion.

      1. Well said!

        I find the continuous Rosberg upped his game really tedious.

        You can make a very reasoned argument that he has driven worse this season and that actually last year was about his best. He may have been a little more aggressive. Look how that worked out for him. Nothing but clumsy crashes and penalties.

        The reality is reliability. It’s that simple.

        And if I see another three year reliability chart or comment, I am seriously signing off.

        1. Yeah but over 3 seasons Button…

          1. @philipgb Don’t even mention Button mate. He could only outscore Hamilton due Hamilton misfortune in 2012. ”Yeah but over 3 seasons Button…” Don’t let me laugh.

          2. @Philip…

            And what about 3 seasons?

        2. So it’s ‘don’t dare trample on Lewis…now shut up while I trample on Nico?’

          Nico, 100% reliability? Wrong.

          When the cars are both reliable LH is always faster? Wrong.

          You urge don’t just talk about LH’s bad starts, but also talk about his good ones, but don’t dare talk about Nico’s good starts nor other good things he has done this year.

          Nobody can reasonably argue NR has had the same reliability woes as LH. Nobody can argue on average LH has the better of him. Nobody can argue Nico is one of the greats. I don’t consider LH one either, as these cars simply do not lend themselves to great feats.

          Nico has been there to capitalize, using the same WDC level equipment that all WDC’s require, and that cannot be said of many teammates and/or rivals of many WDCs throughout the years. He never cowered when he had Schumacher as a teammate, which is what made me back Nico to begin with, nor has he cowered having LH as a teammate. He’s been there always, so no wonder the team re-signed him. Whatever has happened to LH this year has had nothing to do with Nico. Nico has still had to go through the same motions as if LH was beside him at the start of every race.

          If Nico wins the WDC this year, which is far from decided, he will be worthy, not because he is one of the greats nor better than LH on average, but because he has been there, and doesn’t squander the equipment. Nico is only guilty of having to handle the very tough task of going up against multiple WDC’s for the last 7 years. Has he handled every situation perfectly? No. Even the greats have many contentious moments in their careers. It is what it is.

          1. Seems like you have not fully comprehended what I wrote. I never attacked Nico nor did I say he was undeserving. Please read it again

            1. I fully comprehended what you wrote and know of the other things you and others like drg have written, which only undermines NR. How else is one to take an absurd comment such as Nico having 100% reliability? You lost your credibility there. At least I have acknowledged Nico is not better than LH on average but that doesn’t mean he isn’t better some days, as he has proven and as LH supporters deny.

      2. @kgn11 Well said. I’m tired of these people claiming that Rosberg is so called better bla bla bla nonsense.

    12. Gerulf Dösinger (@)
      11th November 2016, 11:01

      I truly admire the likes of Magnussen, Perez and Kvyat show they have a strong spine, are critical in their thinking, stand up for themselves and their principles and how they are not succumbing to pure turbo-business, empty promises and games people play when feeling weak or bored.

      I hope they make it to the forefront of the sport (although it’s kinda unlikely, I know) and replace the whining to often heard these days on the front rows. Really, really impresses me.

    13. If Malaysia alone hadn’t happened, Lewis would be leading the WDC and there would be no talk of the new and improved Nico Rosberg.

      Add to that the reliability issues in qualifying for China (had to start from the back), Russia (had to start from 10th) and Belgium (had to start from the back) and you can get a glimpse of just how impressive it is that Lewis is still in the championship hunt.

      But some people are just too shallow to think things through I guess, or have the memory of a gold-fish.

      Also, accumulating the most penalties he’s ever had during a season does not translate to “getting the most out of every opportunity” for Nico Rosberg.

      1. @andrewf1 Well said Andrew, well said.

    14. My point would be, when Vettel won his four championships driving one of the best racing cars in recent
      memory, who was his team mate? If anyone knows about falling short, its this muppet!

    15. @psynrg Yes, he does. And he’s been quite open about it. It’s eerily similar the Merc 2016 situation to RBR 2010. The championship was there for the taking and Webber blew it. We’ll see how Rosberg does

    16. @montreal95 Yes Webber blew it, Turkey I think! But people tend to forget Mark Webber was very close to being an F1 World Champion so his thoughts and comments should be respected.

      He was the first to omit he raced against a lot of guys with more talent than he had, and he did alright. No Seb, but not many are!

      1. @evilhomer Korea is where he blew it. Turkey is where Seb’s dumb driving ruined it for both of them but mostly himself. I’m a Webber fan through and through so I surely respect his comments. Don’t know how you(if that’s so) you got the idea to the contrary

        1. @montreal95

          Yes Korea! Turkey for the crash they blamed him for even before the race had finished!!
          I am a massive Webber fan and wasn’t trying to revoke your comments but agreeing with them (just worded it badly maybe!) I was just saying many people tend to bag Mark as he always had his say (its the Aussie way) but many don’t respect him as he was beaten by Seb, but Seb wasn’t your normal run in the mill racer was he!

          Wasn’t having a go but agreeing with you mate !

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