Melbourne wary of rival Sydney bid for F1 race

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In the round-up: The promoters of Melbourne’s Formula One race say the sport’s change in ownership may open the door to bids from rival hosts.

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Should Formula One mimic ‘rubber banding’?

DRS should only be used to help close the gap to the car in front down to one second, but not when you are within one second, the opposite of what we have now.

Games have been using this catch up technique for 20 years to keep the pack tight and not let you cruise into the distance.

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Keith Collantine
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54 comments on “Melbourne wary of rival Sydney bid for F1 race”

  1. Sydney can’t host anything. The olympics finished off that city. All the resedents care about is getting stuck in traffic jams and property prices

    1. Travis Humphery (@)
      16th February 2017, 0:19

      Agreed. I grew up in Sydney but have lived in Melbourne the past 15 years.
      Where would they put it anyway? Everyone loves the Melbourne GP anyway, so good luck to the NSW Government!

      1. They’d put it in homebush and nobody would go.

        1. Having Homebush host the Aussie GP would be the equivalent of your dog using your bed as it’s bathroom. It would be wrong and should never happen

  2. If they ever decide to move the Australian Gp away from Melbourne they should take it back to Adelaide as that was a really cool circuit in a great location that always provided plenty of drama, excitement & good racing.

    1. +1

      Then I have to declare that Adelaide was my home city back then so I might be a bit biased :)

      1. + 1million!!
        We would have to extend the circuit more into the Parklands (city wouldn’t work) but we could do this!
        Bring it back!!

    2. The footage of Johnny Dumfries is awesome! If you don’t know him, list your thoughts on the top 3 wealthiest current drivers on the grid- most would say Kimi, Lewis, Fernando or Seb- Johnny is as wealthy as all of those, maybe not for his driving- a pay driver maybe LOL :) A Scottish royal I think ??

  3. I can’t imagine Sydney hosting the Australian GP. I live in Sydney and I just cannot think where to put it. The idea to run it along the Harbour and the Bridge, is just that, an idea. There isn’t enough room to start with and it would send Sydney traffic into a tailspin for weeks. Olympic Park is hopelessly boring and Eastern Creek is nothing special.

    Best keep it in Melbourne. They do a great job down there and it is a very good representation of Australia. I’m going there for the GP in a few weeks. Cannot wait!

    1. Another ‘new’ Tielke style street circuit? No thanks.

    2. The area around Fox Studios?

  4. Mount Panorama :) Now that would be the stuff of dreams!

    1. stuff of a chiropractor’s dreams :)

    2. Don’t forget Phillip Island

      1. In don’t think Phillip Island is graded high enough by the FIA to host and F1 GP at the moment- Keith?

        1. @evilhomer
          I’m pretty sure I remember it being a Grade 2 circuit, it’s way out in the middle of nowhere for an F1 race too.

  5. Pirelli is right in saying this.

    These better tyres will allow the drivers to push them more, but they will also cause 1 stop strategy processions in team order a la Russia 2014, I recon.

    1. I agree. Stable tyres is aero formulas lead to processions. This has been evident for over 30 years

    2. @jeffreyj @dimsim is the alternative the tyres that we had last year? The main complain was that if you followed to close you would basically fry them up. And if they are not the alternative what is?

      Do we really want to ear, open up a 2s gap to conserve tyres?

      Yes aero formula may lead to processions, but gimmick tyres don’t solve that problem, or if they do, it is not in the most spectacular way. I at least don’t think an undercut is exciting.

      Lets at least wait until the season starts to draw conclusions, we might have great races. We will have teams exploring different strengths and that could have interesting results in terms of racing. And I do believe the tyre change is for the better

      1. Well fix the cause.. aero downforce is a pointless 20th century concept. Get rid of it and u could run nose to tail with ease.

        1. Yup, they need these tires no question. They can always tweek the aero rules if they have processions, but what we had was poor tires, slow cars, frustrated drivers…and…processions. Even if they refuse to do as Brawn has already talked about, which is to consider the mechanical grip to aero grip ratio, and processions ensue, the drivers will at least be more challenged in faster cars and that’s an improvement in itself.

          1. They should just drop the mandatory tire changes, that will bring different strategies with more variety than with the optimal strategy we have nowadays. Maybe a Sergio Perez would be able to showcase his tire conserving skills without stopping for tire changes the whole race for example, and with a Max Verstappen storming the whole race flat out with 3 pit stops , we might have a bit more of unpredictability without needing to rely on these rule gimmicks.

    3. So many things are changing in 2017 that it is way too early to decide what might or might not cause procession. I am concerned, however, that Pirelli already is trying to shift the blame, before anyone has seriously blamed it for anything or had opportunity to see if there is a problem to blame anyone for in the first place.

      1. @alianora-la-canta they are already shifting the blame because they knów hard/durable tyres will create 1 stop, team-by-team processions.

        @johnmilk The alternative is having tyres that can be pushed consistantly over a stint, but have a very severe drop off after a certain point. The drop off has to be severe enough that the time loss of eaking out tyre-life over a stint instead of pushing them, doesn’t way up against getting fresh rubber. Put some clever minds on that puzzle and we could have great tyres. In 2012 they were close but then moved in another direction because of team pressure, instead of developing more i n the same direction.

        1. @jeffreyj But they don’t. They may strongly suspect they will. They may even have good logic for believing so. But until we’ve seen them in an actual race, suspicions are all anyone has. And since they hadn’t been accused yet, it would have been wiser to wait until someone actually did so (or, you know, a race where a one-stop procession resulted occurs).

          As for the the “alternative”, that was what we had for most of the pre-Pirelli era, and what the likes of Indycar’s “black tyre” use. It’s not difficult, it’s just not fashionable in F1 circles.

  6. The problem with rubber banding, apart from been greatly artificial, is that it’s unfair to the cars in front and is a consistent criticism of some racing games in the genre. Can you imagine if today’s racings sims had catch-up AI?

    1. I don’t understand why, as COTD suggests, slower cars should have a DRS advantage closing, then have to pass without DRS. The whole point of DRS is to help mitigate the effect of dirty air.

      Seems like this would tighten the field. Kinda like Hamilton slowing Roseburg at Abu Dhabi. Cars stacking up but unable to pass. Thank was fun for one race, but it would be horrible all year.

    2. A young investment banker goes out and buys the car of his dreams – a brand new Ferrari GTO. After paying $500,000, he takes it out for a spin and stops at a red light. While waiting for the light to change, an frail looking old man on a yellow moped pulls up next to him. The old man looks over at the Ferrari and asks, “What kind of car ya’ got there, Sonny?”
      The young man replies, “A Ferrari GTO. It cost half a million dollars!”
      “Wheeewee… that’s a lot of money,” says the old man as he tucks his thumbs up against his suspenders. “Why does it cost so much?”
      “Because this car can do up to 320 miles an hour!” states the banker proudly.
      The moped driver asks, “Mind if I take a look inside?”
      “No problem,” replies the proud new owner. So the old man pokes his head in the window and looks around at all the bells and whistles lining the dashboard. Sitting back on his moped, the old man whistles and says, “That’s a pretty nice car, all right… but I’ll stick with my moped!”
      Just then the light changes, so the banker decides to show the old man just what his car can do. He floors it, and within 30 seconds, the speedometer reads 160 mph! Suddenly, he notices a yellow dot in his rear view mirror. It seems to be getting closer! He slows down to see what it could be, and suddenly… Whoooooosssshhhhh! Something blows by him, going much faster!
      “What in the hell could be going faster than my Ferrari?” the young man asks himself. He floors the accelerator and takes the Ferrari up to 250 mph. Then, up ahead of him, he sees that it’s the old man on the moped! Amazed that the moped could pass his Ferrari, he gives it more gas and passes the moped at 275 mph. Whoooooosssshhhhh!
      He’s feeling pretty good until he looks in his mirror and sees the old man gaining on him again! Dumbfounded, the banker floors the gas pedal and takes the Ferrari all the way up to 320 mph. Not ten seconds later, he sees the moped bearing down on him again!
      The Ferrari red lines and there’s nothing more he can do! Suddenly, the moped plows into the back of his Ferrari, demolishing the rear end. The young man stops and jumps out, and unbelievably, the old man is still alive. He runs up to the mangled old man and says, “Oh my God! Is there anything I can do for you?” The old man whispers with his dying breath… “Unhook… my… suspenders… from… your…. side view mirror.”

      1. + 100 Whoooooosssshhhhh!
        Would be great to see F1 on the Gold Coast track at Suffers Paradise.
        Plenty of high-rise accommodation & decent general viewing points.
        Spent many a year & many a $$$ watching Indy cars there…,just waiting for F1
        Hopefully with the American ownership consideration will be given.

  7. The standing restart after every safetycar is going to be quite a big issue that isn’t much talked about.

    Imagine a standing start with a Sauber in 2nd position… that’s going to be fun. However, the stoppages are probably going to drag the races on and perhaps cause more safety cars after re-start incidents. Also, making a quick pitstop to gain a strategic advantage is now irrelivant as each safety car is now effectively treated as a redflag situation.

    1. I don’t understand this ruling at all… it’s just a gimmick to allow additional starts for a race, they may as well just red flag the race, allow the track to be cleared of debris without any of the cars going around, thus will lead to a shorter race recovery time.

      1. Pat Ruadh (@fullcoursecaution)
        16th February 2017, 13:09

        Good point. That would at least give us a few laps extra racing instead of following behind the SC then lining up on the grid again.

        Don’t understand this at all, has a whiff of competition caution about it, backing the pack up unfairly and diluting the purity of the competition for the sake of ‘the show’

  8. Di Grassi’s interview reads more like a corporate press release, but he still makes some good points.

    soon, only electric vehicles will be allowed in cities, while for commercial vehicles on long journeys hybrids will still be used. Therefore, we might soon see electric cars in rallycross, with hybrids still being used for endurance races and Formula 1 and possibly in GT races, while rallying would be the last discipline to make the switch.

    I know there’s plenty of people who don’t like hybrids, or electric, but over the next decade I can see both becoming far more common in motorsport. Manufacturers like using sport to promote their vehicles, and as more of their production models shift to hybrid or electric, they’re going to want their works teams driving them too. The old “win on Sunday, sell on Monday” rule applies, and a cool rally or touring car version of your car is a great way of marketing it.

    Personally, I don’t believe in a budget cap, which is always too difficult to monitor, but the sporting and technical regulations can be written in such a way that costs are kept to a reasonable level.

    It’s hard to fault his logic, once you’ve got a cap, you’ve got to police it, and anyone that’s dealt with accountants and auditors will tell you that they don’t come cheap.

  9. I was reading the piece from McLaren on how to make an F1 car and came across this:

    Try and imagine how much it costs, for instance, to design and build 150 tyre trolleys for overseas freight, or order 160 new tyre-warmer blankets, simply because the dimensions of the tyres have changed.

    Which got me wondering as to why you’d need 160 tyre warmers? That’s 80 tyres per car, or 20 sets of tyres. I guess that might be what you’d use over an entire GP (including practices and Qualifying), but do they have the tyres in a warmer the entire time? Without doubt that would make things a bit simpler, you just put the tyre in the warmer, turn it on, and forget about it until its needed. The tyres used for the race will have been nicely cooked by the time they are needed.
    But then … 150 tyre trolleys? From the way it’s written it appears each trolley is individually designed and built. 150 trolleys and each trolley occupies about a square metre of floor space … with an electrical connection for the tyre warmer? Why are there 10 trolleys less than tyre warmers?

    1. @drycrust they probably ship their equipment to various places simultaneously, not 160 tyre warmers to 1 race alone.

      1. Yes, that sounds a bit better.

    2. A lot of items are sent seafreight months in advance..

    3. @drycrust I’m wondering of some of that has to due with the different compounds as well.
      20 sets of Tyre Warmers, with 3-4 sets colored coded to each particular compound.

  10. Today is… The complain about Ferrari day.

  11. That COTD…
    I haven’t seen such a dumb comment since Bernie left F1.

  12. Hmm, that DRS CotD idea is actually pretty clever. Not really suitable I think for a performance rewarding formula but clever nonetheless. Rubber banding definitely provides for action packed racing, but also throws off fastest laps and rewards truly strange strategies like deliberately not being in the lead for the majority of the race. If it were to go anywhere I think Formula E would be the more appropriate place given their gimmick friendly attitude.

    Speaking of Formula E, and Australia for that matter. I’ll be interested to see how it performs there compared to Formula 1, I hope it goes to Sydney rather than Gold Coast or Perth for a good comparison to Melbourne. Di Grassi talking a big game there as an alternative to F1 over Heidfeld’s more measured assessment.

    1. Formula E is not even in the same ballpark as Formula 3 when it comes to speed. They do a version of Monaco where they take a right after T1 straight to the swimmingpool, skipping the uphill to the casino, Lows hairpin and the tunnel straight to what is the exit of the chicane. The laptime was just under a minute…. F1 does the entire lap in 1.15.

  13. You know what they say about Sydney vs. Melbourne
    Sydney has a good opera house, but Melbourne has good opera.

  14. Basically Ferrari is throwing their toys out of the pram even before even playing with them.
    If they are not winning, they will moan about this suspension BS all year long.

  15. I live in Sydney, it is the best city in the world if you don’t have to use public transport, drive anywhere, go to a hospital, get to an event, find tourist information, use a taxi… Other than that we’re sweet as bro.

    Sydney is an amazing city but honestly, we couldn’t run a chook raffle. Case in point: the integrated public transport access card (Opal) was designed to be released for the Olympic games in 2000, it was fully implemented only last year. Only 18 years behind schedule. And a freeway where I grew up was started in the year I was born, it is still incomplete. That’s more than 5 decades!

    It’d be easier to go to Melbourne or Singapore GPs than travel across town in Sydney.

    Rant over.

    1. they could use the NFS2 layout…

  16. Australia is massive, and F1 is surely popular enough. If they’re looking to expand the calendar, why not have two races? It would make logistical sense if they were to do them back to back, and would actually justify going all the way out there even more.

    I’m excited to see what Toro Rosso do. They’ve always run in a very similar livery to Red Bull so this should be great. There are so many red bull livery concepts online, hopefully it’s as good as some of those.

    1. Melbourne would veto any Pacific GP, but I must say the gold coast, Bathurst, Adelaide, or Phillip island would all be so awesome…

      1. Melbourne can’t veto anything I don’t think. If F1 wants another ASIA-PAC race, it will get one and if they’d had to leave Albert Park to do so, they will.

        Bahrain has a right to veto any GP in the middle east (allowing Abu Dhabi as the only one and on the other end of the calander). No other GP that I know of has such a veto.

  17. Psst… is a little tip that people in the IT business has figured out many years ago. You have to give the client what they need, not what they want, because 99% of the time the client does not know what they want. The client often thinks they know what they want want, but after you give them what they wante they are not happy with it and rather than blame themselves, they will blame you. Your excuse of you just giving them what they ask for is very naive and laughable.

    1. Hmmm…I don’t think that analogy quite works. It is not Pirelli’s position to decide for F1, F1’s direction.

      Oh I do get what you are saying, but you are talking about clients who know nothing about IT, needing your IT services, and being better served to leave it to you experts. I’m sure if they had some outlandish want or need you’d set them straight before punching a key.

      In F1, it is basically experts in F1 requesting that another expert in F1 (Pirelli) do a certain thing. To make your analogy more accurate you’d have to be talking about another IT company coming to you for your service with a specific need, but you deciding their need or request can be altered at your whim, and you’d be kicked to the curb for that.

  18. Two unions? That’s what you get if a bunch of F1 team bosses try to organise anything.
    From the other comments it sounds like Sydney’s the perfect place for them!

  19. Hembery and Pirelli really annoy me. They were happy to be credited and lauded in 2011-2012 people like Eddie Jordan thanking him for what they did. If you do that you have to take the criticism. Its nobody’s but their own fault that there tyres couldn’t handle a kerb.

    This new teams union just sounds wrong and probably will go wrong

  20. I think Bob Bell might have lived under a rock for the last three years…

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