Nico Hulkenberg, Renault, Albert Park, 2017

F1 put up ‘barriers’ to new teams succeeding – Abiteboul

F1 Fanatic Round-up

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In the round-up: Renault team principal Cyril Abiteboul says Formula One has made it more difficult for new teams to succeed in the sport.

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@Eurobrun picks a racing highlight from last weekend:

My highlight of the weekend was the British F4 race two at Thruxton.

Considering this was only a fortnight after Billy Monger’s accident, his colleagues fought hard and close but fair with a great deal of respect shown to one another. So much overtaking (largely down to slipstreaming) and, for at least half the race, anyone from first to sixth had a genuine shot at victory.

Amid all the drama, Jamie Caroline made minor history be being the first to claim three wins from three in a single weekend, despite a partially reversed grid in race two (and not being on the front row of the grid once).
@Eurobrun

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Keith Collantine
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  • 71 comments on “F1 put up ‘barriers’ to new teams succeeding – Abiteboul”

    1. Wait what’s this? Tim O’Glock coming back? To where??

      1. November, Abu dhabi GP,

        Vettel 322
        Hamilton 320

        Glock will decide who is the champion , last lap :D

        1. @redbullf1 It’s in everyone’s mind.
          Is Toyota coming back? From that airbox shape and colour that simulator could be a past Ferrari’s or a Toyota. Ferrari is definitely not so only Toyota.

          1. Probably he’s doing something for SkyDE.

    2. I don’t know if it’s true but this year’s British GP will be ran in an anti-clockwise Silverstone: https://youtu.be/Wd8EwwE84aE

      1. Just noticed it was an April Fools… Sorry I’ve been trolled 😂

      2. Genius way to get more racing in though. Friday practice. Saturday Q in morning, race in afternoon. Sunday Q in morning, race in afternoon on a flipped track. There’s 40 races per season right there. And none of that reverse grid or sprint race BS.

        1. It sounds great in theory but I’m sure the barriers, run off areas and pits are geared to one direction only. Digitally it could be achieved for sim racing, but alas doubt that would ever happen either.

    3. What F1 team contacted Glock?

    4. What the Glock is Timo on about..

      1. @nemo87 IS THAT GLOCK?!

      2. Yep, quite a shocking news. Is it to replace Palmer at Renault?

        1. Palmer at Renault, or maybe Williams realized that Stroll’s money isn’t worth it if Lance can’t perform to expectations? Or maybe Alonso isn’t returning from the USA, and Button doesn’t want a full-time job? How about Wehrlein not telling us everything about his back problems again?

          1. Or maybe Alonso isn’t returning from the USA

            Perfect fit; he already looks like Alonso ;)
            @zimkazimka

          2. I’m pretty sure if anyone’s getting dumped, it’s Palmer. That boy can’t get within a second of the Hulk’s time.
            Would be glad to see Timo return to take his seat.

        2. Palmer i think maybe Stroll but his last race he finished so i expect Palmer to be replaced which i thought after the summer break but sooner is better.

          1. @macleod Oh Stroll finished the race? In that case let’s replace Fernando, he hasn’t finished any race so far, surely he’s the worst driver ever…

          2. montey carlo (@roundtheoutside)
            9th May 2017, 14:06

            i get the feeling renults next step is to get rid of jp. he serves them no purpose. in modern f1 to be outqualified by your team mate by those kinda margins aint exceptable. i rated Gutierrez better than i do palmer lol. renult need to poach someone like ricciardo, max has had the better of him since around the later part of 2016.

      3. I read on Twitter that it’s only a simulator he’s sitting in and you can see in the pic that he’s wearing a mic. Looks like he’s doing some feature for German TV maybe. Shame though, he would undoubtedly do better than Palmer or Stroll.

        1. It’s an odd one, it’s a bit insensitive to broadcast it like that if he really is replacing another driver.. unless said driver knows they’re being replaced if imagine one or two must asking questions

        2. @sbewers, whilst it is probably a demonstration event for TV, there is a low possibility that a team might have hired him as a simulator driver, such as Williams hiring di Resta in recent years.

    5. I read Mark Webber’s comments on Jenson Button driving at Monaco. I think Webber is being a bit pessimistic about how the race will unfold for Jenson. It is a GP renowned for being a difficult track to overtake on. Now add cars that are difficult to overtake and you have a GP where unreliability is far more likely to cost you position than your competitors engine.

      1. @drycrust and the most unreliable team this year is……

        Get a few beers in Jenson and the truth will come out. Hes skipped the only testing session available before Monaco, Alonso made mention that Button wasn’t exactly thrilled about returning, and now Mark Webber adds to this. Join the dots.

        Mark Webber has always been a straight shooter (which can infuriate the emotional), and in this instance I agree with him.

        1. @drycrust @bamboo As much as I’d like to disagree with Webber, sadly I too feel he is right. For me personally I’m chuffed he’s returning, but I it will most likely be anticlimactic.

          And Monaco has one of the highest engine wear levels of any circuit. That’s not going to do Honda any favours

          1. @strontium I thought I’d read that circuits with the most full throttle time were the hardest on F1 engines? Monaco is only 54% full throttle.

            1. @tonyyeb the track is so tight and runs along buildings, etc. It creates some problems with over-heating

              Also, they spend less time full throttle but demand more quick accelerations than usual

            2. @johnmilk But as I understand it, acceleration isn’t as hard on an engine as running at full throttle. Over heating hasn’t been Honda’s problem though, it has been vibration – worse at high revs (i.e. full throttle for long periods).

            3. @tonyyeb, I would say that Monaco is normally considered to be towards the lower end when it comes to engine wear, with the main difficulties tending to arise from managing the cooling of the engines. It is true that constant acceleration and braking will put a reasonable amount of strain on the cooling and ancillary systems of the engines, but long sustained periods of running at the rev limiter is usually considered more arduous (I think that frictional losses increase with the square of the piston speed, hence why longer periods of sustained high revs are usually considered worse for engine wear).

              Although this was a number of years ago, Renault and Mercedes mentioned that the greater challenges tended to come from trying to smooth out the power curve, particularly when it came to delivering good performance lower down the rev range – if anything, it was quite common for engine manufacturers to reuse engines at Monaco because it wasn’t especially hard on engines and because it has the lowest power sensitivity of all tracks on the calendar.

          2. Yeah, Monaco is actually one of the least harsh circuits when it comes to engines – and tyres, for that matter.

            It tends to be brutal on suspension, though.

          3. montey carlo (@roundtheoutside)
            9th May 2017, 14:14

            the worst tracks for engine wear would be monza, mexico, spa, baku. even then it depends on air temperature too. basically the tracks with higher average speed are GENERALLY harder on engines

        2. @bamboo How is Webber being a straight shooter when he makes it sound like JB purposely skipped the Bahrain test session? Is it a fact that JB was to test there but he refused? I highly doubt that, which makes me think MW is just as much a dramatist as any other F1 reporter or commentator being accused around here of embellishment.

          1. @robbie Button did purposely skip testing! Do you really think Button wanted to test a car that after six races between Fernando and Stoffel had one DNS (!!!), three retirements and 13th and a 14th?

            How were you able to conclude he was trying to make it sound like Button skipped testing when in reality Button is more underwhelmed about his return than even the harshest JB critic.

            1. @bamboo How do you know Button did purposely skip testing? Your supposition that he couldn’t possibly have wanted to test a bad car is pure speculation. Again, it’s not a Button decision. It’s a team. If the team wanted him to test in Bahrain he would have. Also, that Button is more underwhelmed about his return than even his harshest critics is pure speculation on your part. You’re playing off one quote from FA at Indy, and projecting your own interpretation on it as fact.

        3. If he’s a straight talker why do we need to join the dots?
          Utter jibberish

          1. You sound infuriated

      2. I know where he’s coming from but a little dissapointed with Webber’s comments. As for Jenson not wanting to drive @bamboo, surely if he didn’t want to drive he could have retired properly last year and not taken up a reserve driver role. He doesn’t need the money presumably.

        In response to Webber’s question though… I care.

        1. Im sorry @john-h but Jenson only has himself to blame for this one. When he states he wants to continue racing, and McLaren wants Stoffel in a seat, he found himself in quite the predicament.

          Jenson had three choices:

          1) Retire due to being replaced by a rookie. Hardly the way a WDC finishes his career.
          2) Change teams. Not many options there, especially with the rate he would of been asking.
          3) What we ended up with. I would say Jenson would of expected this year to be very cruisy with the chance of having to race being very slim, if not non existent.

          I can understand the excitement for some UK fans, but to a lot of F1 fans this has been met with a lukewarm (at best) “meh”.

          To be fair to Jenson though, I can’t think of anyone I would get excited about trudging a McLaren around Monaco, especially when the person they are replacing is Fernando Alonso.

        2. I don’t buy the rhetoric from Webber nor some posters entirely. JB is in the role he is in by design and by contract as @john-h points out. If he never wanted to race an F1 car again, he wouldn’t be contracted as a backup. I think FA’s comment at the Indy track about JB not being all that excited has been blown out of proportion to make it seem like he is dreading it or would rather do triathlon, when in fact it is likely that JB is perfectly happy and willing to do this, since he has agreed a contract to do so, but just doesn’t feel any great chance of success the way things have been this year. I’m sure that’s all FA meant.

          JB skipped the test session? Did he? Or was it a team decision, since likely JB doesn’t call the shots on this type of thing, or on anything. Since JB didn’t test, that likely means they saw more value in running who they did at the test.

          If this is a non-story it is only because the odds are that JB and SV will likely not even be near any points again. Full stop. But that doesn’t mean JB isn’t happy to fulfil his role. I would suggest one of the reasons or ingredients that was in place in order for FA to go to Indy was that they had JB in his role on the team.

          So @bamboo I don’t think it is a question of JB having only himself to ‘blame’. There’s no blaming needed. JB is happily in a role still at Mac, by design and contract, or he wouldn’t be otherwise. He’s going to fulfil his role. FA is freed up to do Indy. Everything will be back to ‘normal’ again in June.

          MW might be right that this is a non-story because it’s not like JB is going to win or even get points. But let’s not make it sound like JB has a gun to his head and is hating doing this.

          1. I agree. He’s driving a formula one car around Monaco. And he gets to try the fastest f1 cars ever. He must be happy to go along with that. I think Fernando meant he wasn’t excited about his chances in the race. Same with what Weber said. It’s fun that he’s coming back but there is no story. Other than him coming back.

          2. Incorrect @robbie. Playing the ball though not the man….I’m disagreeing in a respectful manner.

            Jenson staying on with McLaren is very much about him saving face and is very much a pride thing. In light of him mentioning last year he wanted to keep racing the alternative was he retired not through choice, but through being dumped for a rookie – hardly the way anyone, let alone a WDC would want to go out.

            The deal worked for everyone. It meant Jenson could leave the sport on more favorable terms, and McLaren got PR use of a person who is very very popular especially among the British people at a discount price.

            If this contract was by design and there was a possibility of Jenson racing this year surely he would have done some simulator time correct? Before the Alonso announcement, total hours = zero.

            1. @bamboo Love the “playing the ball not the man” quote.

              I still disagree and think you are projecting your own storyline on this. Not sure JB needed to save face. He could have simply announced at some point his retirement. There didn’t have to be this aura you project about being dumped for a rookie and therefore having to save face. He’s had a good long career and could

            2. Oops hit post comment by mistake…was saying he could have simply retired normally but seems to have wanted to still be involved. If I were to project anything it would be that he didn’t want to race fully anymore and didn’t want to stand in the way of someone else getting the seat. Happy to stay on in a role. Nobody with a gun to his head. I just don’t see this as some face saving thing.

              If indeed he did zero simulator hours before the FA Indy announcement, I’m sure he’s done plenty since. I think you are making more of this than needs be, with assumptions that only a fly on the wall could know.

    6. Sky F1 needs to get over its U.K. bias and hire Mark Webber to be a driver analyst, replacing Johnny Herbert, Paul Di Resta or both. Johnny seems a nice guy but is about as sharp as a bowling ball. Di Resta is smart, but too politically attuned to ever offer controversial and interesting opinions. Damon Hill strikes a better balance. Martin Brundle is the best.

      1. Paul Di Resta, doesn’t make things up in his head and then present it as a fact during the races, unlike Brundle and co. He doesn’t tell you what the driver isn’t saying or pretend to be the one driving. While it may appear bland a times, I am more likely to trust his opinion on race issues than most of the other presenters.

        1. +1. Enjoy Paul’s fact-based analysis better than the rest of the Sky-F1 fake news department.

      2. As I’ve said a few times here now (guess it’s just bugging me)…unless you believe JB was to test at Bahrain but refused, how is MW any more a reliable commentator than anyone else? He has made it sound like it was JB’s choice to test but he didn’t, when in fact isn’t that a team’s decision?

    7. Lol Webber. He is loaded with good oneliners.

      But I agree. If Nico came and ran #3 Mercedes as a guest, that would be a story.

      Button most likeley retiring from a race is not that impressive.

      1. “Flip a Benz, struggle your way into F1 midfield, luck into a top team, get your ass kicked by a German youngster, flee back to the tin tops. Whatever. Who cares.” ;-)

    8. Alonso’s record at the Indianapolis circuit (in the Formula one form) is actually quite terrible. Retired in 2001, 2003 and 2004, Did not start 2005 (he was out-qualified by Fisichella the day before). Finished 2 places behind Fisichella in 2006 and finished behind Lewis Hamilton in 2007. Definitely a bogey circuit for Fernando.

      I wonder if the oval there would be a little kinder to him :)

      1. I do not think F1 went to Indianapolis in 2006 and 2007

          1. Stop Spamming the Comments with your Facts and research

      2. He actually got better with each race.

    9. Regarding Webber’s comments on Button’s return – I would totally agree with him if we were talking about a normal circuit, but I actually think that if the reliability holds out (admittedly, a big if), then it could be an interesting race. Wider cars which are tricky to drive could spell absolute chaos at Monaco this year. Throw in a fast car towards the back (Verstappen binning it in qualifying?!) or a little rain and we could see a few Safety Cars mixing it all up massively.

      Maybe this is me just being ever the optimist, but I could see Jenson near the front with a little luck and a car that somehow doesn’t break.

      1. Fukobayashi (@)
        9th May 2017, 10:18

        Absolutely dreaming mate. That Honda will either fail to start the race or make it a third of the way in as per usual. Have to agree with Webber’s sentiment here, there is no point in hyping this comeback bearing that car’s reliability record in mind.

        1. Fukobayashi (@)
          9th May 2017, 10:20

          And Jenson’s lack of participation in the only test session to acclimatise to this years car means he almost certainly feels the same way. The comments about it being a ‘dream’ to return in Monaco are just PR shpiel after Alonso let the cat out of the bag that he almost couldn’t care less about the opportunity.

          1. @offdutyrockstar So it is your contention that it is up to JB as to who does test sessions? And you are alright putting words in FA’s mouth? Did FA actually say JB ‘almost couldn’t care less’ or is that just your interpretation of FA’s meaning? No chance it is just that JB is happy to fulfil his role but given the way the car has been it is simply not an enthralling time on the team for any of them?

      2. @ben-n you wouldn’t happen to reside in the UK would you?

        If so, I think you’re confusing optimism with nationalism.

        1. @bamboo – nothing to do with where I come from. I am from the UK, but for what it’s worth I don’t particularly support any driver – I support the underdog and the unexpected!

          I know it’s a stretch but think it through. IF the McLaren finishes the race (which I’ve already agreed is a massive stretch at this point) then I think Monaco could be the place it actually scores good points. To clarify, I’m not suggesting he’s likely to win, or even be on the podium, but I think points are possible.

      3. @ben-n That’s inception, your dream in a dream in a dream in a dream. Seriously, in the most optimistic but realistic scenario both McLaren’s turn out to be reliable that race and even with bad luck from others or help from safety car(s) they will not end up any higher than P8 or so.

      4. Monaco is Mclaren’s best opportunity to score points. Alonso has got close in previous races, and this circuit has less full engine power usage. Mclaren can qualify very well here.

        1. If their engines are shaking to death a marble flat circuits, I have real concerns for them in Monaco.

    10. @ben-n In your defence, one never knows what might happen. That’s why they run all the races. You’ve acknowledged the slim odds so I have no issue with your commentary. But the way this topic is being spun into such a soap opera when it needn’t be, if you turn out right then can you imagine the diatribe around here? “FA shuns key points by defecting to the US!!” “JB now rated better than FA!!” “JB to replace FA for the rest of the season!!” “Solid proof now that FA has been sabotaging his own car!!”

    11. montey carlo (@roundtheoutside)
      9th May 2017, 15:17

      i think that there should be like an emergency fund that the likes of merc, ferrari, rb, renult could put some money in for a struggling team. im sure it wouldnt hurt them to throw an allocated “team in need” some money, plus liberty could help them out a bit. and they need to stop changing the rules completely every 4 years and allow the grid to get used to the regs because history shows that the longer f1 uses a set of regulations the closer teams get, meaning smaller teams can have more of a chance of points. for team like sauber or manor (yes they went bust) but i think they could have survived if they didnt also have to spend money on a 2017 car. if liberty and the f1 teams could stop just 1 team going bust every 4 years then thats good. manufactures have always come and gone on there own terms, its the smallest of the private teams that need help. we could have still had caterham and manor if only things were made more bearable. i dont like some big teams attitude to smaller teams too, remember when there was a proposal for a cheaper and simpler engine (cant remember weather it was 2015 or 16) and ferrari vetoed the idea because they didnt want “nobodys” making as good an engine just because its much cheaper. f1 is the most elitist sport in the world, ran by the elite, for the elite

      1. Ok but F1 is indeed elite and is the pinnacle. While I do agree that smaller teams could use a better funding distribution than there was under BE, I also caution that somewhere a line needs be drawn. How much money do you hand to teams that wanted to be in F1, had to prove why they should be in F1 and why they’ll be sustainable, and are gleening huge marketing value by being in F1…it’s usually why they wanted to be there to begin with. I absolutely do feel for the smaller teams who had the goal posts changed on them after they entered F1 though. For sure they can be better taken care of, but in general as a blanket statement I’d prefer teams don’t come into F1 having to hold out their hands. F1 can do better to ensure a little more stability for the small teams, no question, and I would prefer that approach to teams holding their hands out just to survive.

    12. “He goes out, has fuel pressure problems on practice one, qualifies 17th, race retires lap 12. Whatever. Who cares.”
      No chill.

      Button was pretty much contractually obligated to drive for them if Alonso had enough and said goodbye to McLaren. That’s the whole reason the ”sabbatical year” deal was made with Jenson.

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