In the round-up: Daniil Kvyat will remain at Toro Rosso for another season in 20418, Christian Horner expects.
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Kvyat closing in on Toro Rosso extension (ESPN)
"I can't see a scenario where it won't. He's actually driven a pretty sensible season so far, the likelihood it will be taken up in the relatively near future."
Ferrari insists it's 'not interested' in Alonso return (Motorsport)
"Alonso may well have shown the desire to return (to Ferrari), but he did not find the right response from our side. We’re not interested."
Max Verstappen will be at Red Bull 'for sure' in 2018 (Sky)
Jos Verstappen: "We will stay with the team next year for sure."
FIA post-race press conference - Austria (F1)
"It was on the edge, I’m sure you react, but at that same point the lights went out. In theory it’s not a natural reaction I don’t believe, but as Valtteri said if it’s plus then he’s safe. But I don’t believe he reacted to the lights."
Magnussen 'best team mate since Alonso' - Grosjean (F1i)
"He is the best team mate I've had through my 'second' career in Formula 1."
2017 Austrian Grand Prix (Motorsport magazine)
Lewis Hamilton: "Normally you’d give the team a balance check before you were due in, so they could adjust the front wing flap at the stop, but because I hadn’t realised I was coming in until they said do the opposite of Raikkonen, I didn’t ask for any wing change; it was all a bit rushed. Ideally, we’d have taken some front wing out at the stop."
Contradictory, puzzling and infuriating: Why Hamilton is so compelling (BBC)
"You can't be happy every day you have a result. Whether it is second, fifth, 10th, whatever it is, you are going to be annoyed at one point, because you put so much into it."
Palmer: Hulkenberg style led to breakthrough (Autosport)
"I've always driven in a certain way, which is not working very well with how the car's been. (Now) it's kind of closer to what Nico's doing and adapting myself to try and drive slightly differently."
Bottas opens up F1 title race but start in Austria raises questions (The Guardian)
"The promoters of the grand prix revealed, in stark contrast to the previous management, requests to bring new ideas to the show are being met with an enthusiastic 'yes' rather than a flat 'no'."
McLaren will give Honda plenty of 'runway' (Reuters)
"We do like what we're seeing and what they are telling us about how they are going about addressing some of the issues."
Raikkonen doing 'best that I can' after Marchionne criticism (Crash)
"I can only do the best that I can. Unfortunately it's not been very straightforward sometimes, but that's part of F1."
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Comment of the day
Travis was amazed by a photograph in yesterday’s round-up which apparently showed disappointed Max Verstappen fans leaving the Austrian Grand Prix early:
Do those photos really show those orange clad fans leaving early just because Verstappen retired? I find that attitude so strange.
I feel that for most F1 fans, the live experience is so much bigger than simply supporting one driver or team. They have presumably travelled a fair distance, paid for seats to sit in the sunshine and watch the fastest cars on earth go past, and then leave before the race really gets going.
I kind of hope these photos have been captioned out of context, otherwise the mind boggles!
@Travis-Daye
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Strontium (@strontium)
11th July 2017, 0:08
Goodness, this has to be one of the biggest long-term contracts ever signed. I suppose in a way it makes up for demoting him.
That joke aside, I hope he does stay next year. I know there’s been a lot of criticism about him, but he’s had a very rough ride and a some of his performances this year have been very underrated, especially as his car reliability hasn’t been great. With all things considered I think he’s done a solid job of coping with a lot of the pressure put on him, not least by the critics who bash him at every opportunity.
Fer no.65 (@fer-no65)
11th July 2017, 0:57
@strontium
But I don’t think he deserves it. Even during his time at Red Bull, he was struggling. He’s been struggling since 2014, last year’s phase at STR was horrible for him and he’s been shown the way by Carlos Sainz ever since. And even with Carlos having some very weird races this season, he’s very far behind.
I think that he doesn’t deserve a contract until 20418… But maybe Red Bull just don’t feel like Gasly is ready yet, in that case it makes sense to keep Kvyat until then. I think 18401 years will be enough for Pierre to get his act together… :P
Markp
11th July 2017, 12:55
Struggled at Red Bull? He finished ahead of a very good driver at RedBull.
Joao (@johnmilk)
11th July 2017, 7:52
This year is almost a bonus in itself. He has been under-performing for a while now.
These incidents where he bumps into his competitors are rookie mistakes, he shouldn’t be doing those anymore, yet, every once in a while there he is (is he still using the helmet with the rocket on it?). In Baku he went wide, in Austria he took two out.
Sainz is also pilling up mistakes after mistakes this season, but it is still finishing ahead of him.
As @fer-no65 mentions, it is a question of having someone ready to promote, rather than keep Kvyat on merit alone.
Todfod (@todfod)
11th July 2017, 8:42
Honestly, I like the bloke. But the only reason he has got a contract for next year is because there isn’t anyone noteworthy in the Red Bull junior program. So he can fill the seat until someone else comes along.
Optimaximal (@optimaximal)
11th July 2017, 0:27
@travis-daye Re: your COTD – it’s only been a few races since a family got free paddock passes because their child cried when a driver was taken out at the first corner.
Clearly people do get that attached to a driver – the cynic in me says that people are going to start doing it more if it draws attention and potentially wings them free stuff!
Unicron (@unicron2002)
11th July 2017, 6:54
In the days of Senna, when he retired his fans would leave in droves. Like Verstappen, they are there to see one man and one man only. They would not have been there without that driver being in the race. Its not a bad thing, it’s great that new fans are introduced to the sport. Once he isn’t racing some fans will leave the sport, others will be hooked and will stay.
Jaime
11th July 2017, 9:18
Barcelona, 2008. After 30something laps, Alonso’s engine blows. More than half the crowd leaves the circuit.
Ricky Johnson (@bamboo)
11th July 2017, 1:16
The fact that Jos refers to “we” being at Red Bull next year tells me he doesn’t get it. It seems to me overly supportive parents aren’t isolated to the sidelines of junior sports fields.
The best thing Max can do is drop Jos. He is at the level now where all that really should matter is his driving skill. If he is good enough he will be sought after, and have options. Given that, hes in control, not Jos.
The more I read into Jos the more I think he offers negatives as opposed positives to Max and his career. This is a guy that has been arrested for attempted murder, has assaulted females, and last year beat up his own father. Given hes also been arrested this year for a bar fight tells me he simply the issues aren’t temporary blipps in life, but more a severely compromised personality.
anon
11th July 2017, 6:58
@bamboo, there was also the conviction for stalking his former wife and daughter, where he was found guilty of harassing them and vandalising their house and their cars (they also accused him of physical assault, but the charge was dropped due to insufficient evidence).
You could also add to that list the charge of grievous bodily harm after, in one karting session he took Max Verstappen to, he ended up arguing with another man and smashed his skull with a jack (eventually settled out of court).
As you say, all in all Jos has a pretty long history of violent behaviour.
Ricky Johnson (@bamboo)
11th July 2017, 7:07
Wow! I’d love to hear Helmut Markos view on the lunatic.
If Red Bull weren’t already blown away by this circus, in light of the above examples, I’m sure they well and truly are now given Max’s grandfather has had meetings with Marko regarding Jos. Funny, given all Red Bull signed up for was Max!
GtisBetter (@)
11th July 2017, 7:50
The fact that his son is the youngest race winner ever clearly means he does get it. Whatever his character flaws are, he sure knows how to get things done. And max is not stupid. But he is still young,
Ricky Johnson (@bamboo)
11th July 2017, 9:57
The fact that hes happy to belt the snot out of his father, ex-wife, complete strangers, and run down that same ex-wife with a motor vehicle (before fleeing) clearly means he will happily take his rage out on anyone, even F1 and/or Red Bull personnel.
Hes a ticking time bomb whose purpose has been served. Max’s driving is what will get him places now, nothing else.
Robbie (@robbie)
11th July 2017, 12:32
@bamboo I didn’t know these things about Jos, but imho it is disgusting for you, from your armchair, to deem what is or isn’t right for Max wrt his relationship with his father.
Ricky Johnson (@bamboo)
11th July 2017, 13:13
Whatever moral inferiority you are attempting (and failing) to put on me pales in comparison to his actions. If he wants to have a relationship with his father, that is fine, just not in the sport. Its such a bad look.
There is no place in the sport for the nut bar and my guess is if he was a Joe Bloggs with a normal income and background he would of done time behind bars already.
Robbie (@robbie)
11th July 2017, 14:24
@bamboo I’m sure Jos and Max thank you for your permission to have a relationship.
No place for him in the sport? Obviously wrong since he is around as is Max. The people inside F1 who have anything to do with Jos and Max and their involvement in F1 obviously do not share your views. After all, they’re merely come from your armchair. But yeah, let’s base things on ‘your guess.’
As33
11th July 2017, 9:59
Wow, sounds like an awful man. Sounds like the only thing stopping Max may be his father. Fear for Max’s long term psyche if he sticks around much longer.
Mick Harrold (@mickharrold)
11th July 2017, 14:13
I can’t agree more about Jos needing to be dropped. Don’t get me wrong, Max wouldn’t be in F1 so early without him and it may never have happened. But he is here now and has shown he is worthy. Jos showed all his abrasive skill to get him here, but it is now time for Max to stand on his own 2 feet. I feel that from now on out, Jos will only be the lead weight at his feet that holds him back.
Take current discussions about Max leaving. Where is Max going to go? He is heavily contracted to RB. Merc won’t consider him while Valteri is doing OK and Hamilton is bolted on. Ferrari might want him, but Seb might hold some say here and Ferrari would have to pay massive dollars to buy him out. Added to that, Ferrari aren’t going to want to buy a driver that is berating his current team. They know he will do it to them too if they don’t give him a winning car. And Seb might leave if he turns up. Grosjean is a way more economical bet to support Seb for them on a 1 year contract.
Max is Burning bridges too. He is biting the hand that feeds him in insulting RB. Take a look at the way RB dealt with Sainz for suggesting he might leave the RB camp next year. They came out in force and told him “Boy, we bought you and we own you. You are going nowhere”.
Jos and Max would be best served to have a look at one of the best drivers of this decade. Alonso. He might be a dynamite driver, but he burnt bridges and can’t get a top seat now. Max is only young and is breaking many records, but he may also win the record for the youngest driver not wanted by any top team if he keeps taking Jos’s advice. If he burns RB, that leaves 2 top teams. If he goes to Ferrari and loses, he might burn that bridge too. Then what?
If Austria proved anything about Max, it is that he is 100% all of the time. He looked dangerous all weekend in practice and Qualy. Most often he was faster than Dan, but he was dangerous in 2 senses. He was both fast and also over the limit. Often on the same lap. There are times when 90% is the right choice.
Robbie (@robbie)
11th July 2017, 14:32
I took from recent comments by Max and Jos that of course Max is under contract for next year with RBR and of course he will be there, and if Max hesitated on that at all it was simply because he is frustrated with unreliability and wants badly to be on a team that isn’t pretty much on average 5th and 6th behind the Ferraris and the Mercs and even at that hardly able to finish a race due to unreliability. Anyway there is no place for Max to go for 2018 other than RBR and he has a contract with them, so that’s what it is for now.
GtisBetter (@)
11th July 2017, 14:42
Actually, Jos already took a step back. He is not there for every GP, like at TR. He is not actively pushing the RB management to go one way. But people do still call Jos with questions about the situation, cause max is very hard to get a hold of. And it’s only logical for max to ask his father for advies. There always have been and still are father driver combinations in the paddock and I haven’t seen any bad things coming out of it. I haven’t seen any indication that Jos is a bad influence. If anything max is the opposite of his father.
Mick Harrold (@mickharrold)
11th July 2017, 14:37
Am I the only person in the world that thinks that Max’s clutch problem might have been an own goal? I ask this question. Where was Max’s car located directly before the race?
I saw a lot of people argue that Dan’s car problems in Melbourne in the race were caused by his crash in Q3. I think that it is more than likely that this was the case. The team have to put the car back together overnight and get no chance to run it again to make sure it is OK. Added to that, they are under Parc Ferme conditions as well.
To answer my earlier question, the answer is… going backwards through a gravel trap. After that, the car was under Parc Ferme and RB had no opportunity to test it. Max mentioned that he noticed a problem on the parade lap, but by then it was too late to do anything. TBH, I am speculating here. But Max and RB said that after the bad start that they thought he would finish the race until he was punted off at turn one. After that, the clutch was gone. If a a spin at turn one finished the clutch off, surely, a backwards trip through the gravel trap might have caused the initial problem. Given that the problem surfaced the next lap after that gravel trap episode, you certainly can’t discount this.
Mick Harrold (@mickharrold)
11th July 2017, 15:29
Sorry for the italics too. It was supposed to be only on the word “Might” in the first line to emphasise that this is only an hypothesis.
Philip (@philipgb)
11th July 2017, 1:21
I understand Red Bull holding on to Sainz, but I don’t understand them keeping both Kvyat as well. Unless there is a performance clause that means there is a risk of losing both Ricciardo and Verstappen suddenly it just makes no sense. Kvyat is clearly behind Sainz who it seems is not quite on Verstappen’s level, and he failed to measure up to Ricciardo during their time together (anyone who wants to cite the 2015 standings either didn’t watch the season or just wants to debate for the sport of it).
Kvyat has had some impressive moments, but he’s also had some reckless and clumsy moments. He just isn’t a special driver and he’s taking up space in the Torro Rosso seat that could be being used to give up and coming drivers a shot, even if Kvyat is a better-known quantity he’s no future prospect. I don’t understand them holding on to him unless there are politics or dealings behind the scenes that are nothing to do with talent.
Sumedh
11th July 2017, 2:34
I don’t understand them holding on to him unless there are politics or dealings behind the scenes that are nothing to do with talent.
I think there is some back story to this. Getting all 4 contracts firmed up so early in the season is fishy. I have a feeling Red Bull is expecting 1 of the 4 drivers to leave for some other team. And there is a decent probability that another one will also leave. Red Bull has one backup in the form of Gasly but nothing after that. Firming up all 4 contracts is a safety first option being activated by Red Bull.
anon
11th July 2017, 7:13
@philipgb, perhaps it is just me, but I think it is more that Red Bull just don’t have that much confidence in Gasly, who would be the most viable replacement.
To be honest, I’m not that impressed by Gasly’s form in junior series – it felt more like his title in GP2 came not because he was a strong driver, but rather because others hit problems, whilst his 2nd place in the Formula Renault 3.5 series seemed to come more because of consistency than outright pace (he picked up quite a few podiums, but failed to win a single race that season).
Mick Harrold (@mickharrold)
11th July 2017, 14:20
That is an easy one to answer. Red Bull are seriously worried about losing Max to Ferrari. On the weekend, Marchione categorically denied wanting to get Alonso back, but was evasive on Max for next year. I know Jos came out today and said that Max will be at RB next year, but this news is coming late and Jos is hardly to be trusted. His camp has been making noises for a while now. RB know that if there was a way that Max could get to Ferrari (or Merc), he would be gone.
So with that possibility in mind, Sainz gets Verstappen’s seat and Kvyat has to stay at TR for continuity. Plus, RB don’t have 2 drivers ready to fill the junior seats if Sainz and Kvyat are gone. So RB play the Kvyat card for a while to see what Max does. Max goes, Kvyat stays. Max stays, Kvyat might be left high and dry. But for now, RB show love to Kvyat and tease him with a seat for next year.
Sensord4notbeingafanboi (@peartree)
11th July 2017, 2:23
Romain would say that especially because it’s raikkonen’s seat he’s after. Never going to happen, don’t cry Romain.
Todd (@braketurnaccelerate)
11th July 2017, 20:49
Its fairly well known that Kimi and Romain don’t get along well, but that’s obviously a cheap shot by Romain. Wonder how much Kimi not wanting to join the GPDA has to do with it? Between all the incessant whining about brakes, the car and now this, its making it very hard to support GRO.
Julian (Mr. Sakura) (@xiasitlo)
11th July 2017, 4:46
COTD needs a Dutch answer. Spoiler: expect a typical blunt Dutch answer.
Dutch people are quite upset the last 10 years in the forms of sport, so have grown quite nationalistic, almost like Southern Italians or Polish Hooligans. 90% of current fans don’t care about F1 apart from Max and have very poor knowledge about F1. Before Max entered, F1 had the same ratings/popularity as South Korea has for F1.
F1 in the Netherlands attracts above average middle age men that can’t handle Ajax being so poorly (relevant to the 90s) or PSV for the larger region Max comes from.
On top of that the Dutch having no contenders in cycling (the 2nd biggest sport), Speed skating not being popular as snowy days continue to decline and international competition being like table tennis for Chinese, so only Daphne Schippers remains but she only runs 10 times a year on TV for 10/20 sec. Other sports were the Dutch excel in aren’t seen as ”cool” for those men (Hockey, volleyball, women’s cycling, sailing, rowing).
Add the Dutch mortgage problems that kills the middle class, that exact middle class that enjoys motor racing and some more politics and there you have the mentality of these fans. This is their only real outdoor excitement in life left.
So Verstappen has the same mechanic as Trump to make this post even more user-friendly. (I’m talking about the mechanic don’t get triggered)
He sparks a feeling in Dutch fans around 30/45 year old that they have long lost. 90% don’t care about F1 at all. So they go home.
F1 needs to come back and exploit this if you ask me because he could easily sell out 100k stands in Zandvoort or Assen even with Spa on the calender.
Julian (Mr. Sakura) (@xiasitlo)
11th July 2017, 5:07
PS: Only the Tour de France really counts for the Dutch. So no Dumoulin winning the Giro was great, but it washes out quite quickly. Niki Terpstra won a famous classic cycling race 2 years ago and he made a celebration tour through the canals in Amsterdam (even being a metropolitan native). 50 people came.
PS 2: Swimming and every other sports doesn’t get Max’ attention. In fact all sports-programs are getting even lower rating every year. Down from sometimes 40% to 5/10 years ago. More then other trends. Not just because of internet.
PS 3: Yes there are young(er) fans as well. But most of them are glory-hunters. They just get drunk and take (hard)drugs (very easy to get in The Netherlands), ask the other fans at Spa last year how they kept lightning smoke-bombs despite warnings. Again I’m not denigrating them. Just explaining why they seem so shallow and fanatic.
Jaime
11th July 2017, 9:29
I’ve mentioned this in other comment, but you might be describing Spain some 15 years ago, when Alonso started to raise some eyebrows. Before Alonso, F1 was basically ignored in Spain (even though we had some drivers: Gené, De La Rosa and the likes). Fernando came along, and a private TV channel (Telecinco) bought F1 rights and chose two hooligans as commentators. They basically sold everyone that wasn’t previously interested in F1 that Alonso was basically a god and, whenever he lost, was because the car was a piece of junk, there was a conspiracy against him and all that mumbo jumbo. They even called him “Magic”, like Senna.
Julian (Mr. Sakura) (@xiasitlo)
11th July 2017, 22:19
Yes, I saw that happening as well. While I get it, commercial wise, and it worked in both cases to attract fans and will continue to do so, so bless that, I do not think it is ethical because with the rivalries we would create we would turn F1 into Nascar where drivers throw helmets and pit crews throw fits live on camera just for the hell of it.
Jorge Lardone (@jorge-lardone)
11th July 2017, 22:24
+1
Ben Rowe (@thegianthogweed)
11th July 2017, 8:48
I don’t quite get the criticism other people say about Kvyat. He isn’t as bad as the points gap suggests at all. If Kvyat didn’t have his bad luck in Australia, he’d have 6 points and Sainz will have lost 2. And If Sainz had to retire in all the same races his team mate had to that were not his fault, Sainz in total will have lost 18 points. This would leave him with 11 and Kvyat with 6. He’d have lost 6 in China, 8 in Monaco and 4 in Baku. Obviously they both retired in Canada. If Kvyat had had Sainz’s run of reliability, And Sainz had suffered like Kvyat did, think Kvyat would have around 24 points at this moment in time. In Australia, He certainly looked to have the edge on Sainz but had to box on lap 50 with tyre issues. He would have been 8th if it wasn’t for this So that would give him 2 points more than he has. In China, I certainly don’t think Kvyat’s wet weather performance is as good as Sainz’s but considering how bad Sainz’s start was, If Kvyat didn’t have to retire, I do think he’ll have managed 8th at leased as he started in the top 10. 4 points. In Monaco, Sainz certainly looked a lot better overall, but again, Kvyat had to retire. He possibly will have managed 8th but more likely 9th. So 2 points. In Canada, Although he did make a mistake by thinking he could climb back up the grid, the car certainly looked to have good pace that day. If he didn’t have that trouble, I really do think he’ll have managed 9th. 2 points. In Baku, although Kvyat went wide in the 1st corner, he looked to have better pace than Sainz virtually all of the weekend so far. He came back onto track in a perfectly reasonable way and Sainz just seemed to overreact. He did admit to this after though. I am certain Kvyat will have taken 8th this time and Sainz will have lost another 2 .So 4 for Kvyat. This would add up to 18 when you include the points he has already. Which Admittedly isn’t near Sainz’s 29, but Sainz will have likely lost a couple more in Baku and Australia I think as Kvyat did look better there. That would leave Sainz with 25. So it is clear he is better, but not by as much as people think. If Sainz had suffered in the 3 races Kvyat had to retire in when Kvyat could have got points, then that would take away 18 points. This would leave him with 7 points. And Kvyat will have possible gained an extra 2 in China, 2 in Monaco and 2 in Baku. So another 6. So 18+ 6 = 24. It does show how badly poor reliability can reflect on a drivers performance as this could make Kvyat look better which isn’t true.
All of this stuff is guesswork I suppose. But if they had had the same level of luck. I think the more realistic points and with no technical issues, I think it would be more like this: Sainz around 28 and Kvyat around 19.
I certainly admit this, Sainz is clearly better overall. He showed that last year. But he hasn’t been very consistent this year and had made bigger mistakes than Kvyat and had had better luck. Kvyat did make a mistake last race but that is the only big costly mistake he’s made in a race this year. He is worse than Sainz, but IMO, not by the margin most seem to think he is.
Here on Motorsport.com, it seems that Red Bull still have faith in him: https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/kvyat-new-toro-rosso-contract-928978/
This is what I think people seem to be missing, I really do think that in most races he’s had the chances, he’s at leased been reasonable. Especially in Australia. He just needs more luck to prove himself. Some people have been predicting what Verstappen would have done without actually seeing it as he retired. So I’m basically doing the same thing with Kvyat.
I think he’s good enough to deserve a seat next year and it will make the Toro Rosso line up the most experienced it has ever been, which is a very good thing.
Joao (@johnmilk)
11th July 2017, 11:26
unfortunately for Kvyat, it is more like:
Wherlein: 5 pts
Kvyat: 4 pts
They also have the most experience line up this year, look how profitable that turned out to be, with both make mistakes after mistakes
Ben Rowe (@thegianthogweed)
11th July 2017, 12:20
I think you have to admit that although his 2 mistakes gave him 2 penalty points, they just were not as bad as what Sainz did. And I still think he could have possibly managed points in Canada if it wasn’t for his troubles. And yes, it is a point that Wehrlein has more, but as you said whenever I mention that Ericsson has managed a point, It was only due to retirements that got him them. Wehrlein would have got any if Bottas, Kimi and Verstappen didn’t retire in Spain. And I’ll be honest, Ericsson was more deserving of that point in Baku than his team mate, but it was only available because of multiple retirements. If you read my description, Kvyat would very likely have at leased 18 or lightly more points this year if he’d had better luck. I’m not including his latest race as bad luck clearly as it was his won fault. And if Red Bull have confidence in him, it isn’t just me that thinks he is still decent enough.
Ben Rowe (@thegianthogweed)
11th July 2017, 12:21
*slightly more
Ben Rowe (@thegianthogweed)
11th July 2017, 12:24
*Own fault. I type too fast!
Joao (@johnmilk)
11th July 2017, 12:54
This mistake at Austria gave him 2 penalty points. But it wasn’t the first one he did. This one is severe in the sense it involves reckless driving (same as in Canada), while the other are more relevant on the sporting side of things. He has had mistake in quali, race and practices. And if we mention the 2016 season, which was very poor, crashing into Vettel, K-Mag and Perez (and alone a few times as well).
Granted same goes for Sainz, but at least he made some races count.
Even if he had 18, he would still be trailing Sainz, how many times does a driver need to be out-performed by his team-mates to be shown the door? If he stays, it is not due to his amazing results
Ericsson squeezed Wherlein into the wall in Baku didn’t he?
Ben Rowe (@thegianthogweed)
11th July 2017, 13:12
Sorry for talking about Ericsson, but from my view (and others) it looked like Werhlein damaged Ericsson when he attempted to pass. As he went into a gap that was already starting to close. That then resulted in the floor getting broken on Ericsson’s car. The team did say that Wehrlien could go past Ericsson if he could overtake which I thought sounded quite funny. But Wehrlein made a mess of it. As Ericsson’s car was damaged, I think it was fair enough that they then instructed Ericsson to allow him through. But the team told him that if he didn’t pull away, he could retake the position. Wehrlein barely did pull away at all even though his team mate had a damaged car and the didn’t swap back. but this may have been because Vandoorne was closing in. Even so, I do think Ericsson was more deserving of that point. He had a much better start to that race too.
Ben Rowe (@thegianthogweed)
11th July 2017, 12:48
Just to add, comparing Kvyat to Wehrlein and not considering the reliability problems for Kvyat would be like comparing Perez and Verstappen. The Force India, is a lot worse than the Red Bull and Perez has 5 times as many more points over Verstappen than Wehrlein has over Kvyat…….
Both Verstappen and Kvyat have been very unlucky this year. I think both are far closer to their team mates than the points suggest. As many think Verstappen is actually better than Ricciardo. Well we’ve only seen them against each other for a total of 175 laps out of 558! And I don’t think it is a huge amount with Kvyat and Sainz. I think that although they have both made mistakes, they are good enough for what this team needs. Certainly good enough to stay in the sport but judging from Sainz’s mistakes this season, I don’t think he is quite good enough for a better team. The team though clearly think they are good enough to probably end up keeping them both.
Joao (@johnmilk)
11th July 2017, 12:54
that was just for fun ;)
Ben Rowe (@thegianthogweed)
11th July 2017, 13:01
Oh, ok. I do get why you posted it. As when you look at it, you just know that Toro Rosso is far better than Sauber. So on paper, it does look like Kvyat is doing a terrible job. But that doesn’t reflect on what has actually happened.
Todfod (@todfod)
11th July 2017, 8:48
I’m kind of disappointed that McLaren have suddenly started liking Honda’s progress after another Spec 3 debacle on Alonso’s car this weekend. Instead of berating them, they reverted to praises…. which can only mean one thing… they didn’t come to an agreement with Mercedes on an engine deal.
It’s really disappointing that they will be stuck with that piece of garbage power unit for another season or two.
Sumedh
11th July 2017, 11:30
So McLaren can’t get Mercedes engine. I wonder if this was because a) Mercedes didn’t want to or b) The financial l cost of breaking the contract for McLaren was too high.
My hunch is it was reason b.
Todfod (@todfod)
12th July 2017, 6:07
My hunch is a). If they thought cost was a big issue they wouldn’t have approached Mercedes in the 1st place.
I feel they wanted preferential customer treatment from Mercedes, which they didn’t get.
Joao (@johnmilk)
11th July 2017, 11:37
They lost Mercedes, and with it Alonso. So better have the financial liberty to go on their own business as they like, while being a manufactured backed team instead of a client.
And if Alonso is gone, you know what that means right? McLaren 2018’s WCC
Rick (@)
11th July 2017, 10:42
@travis-daye I don’t have the exact context in which the photo was taken. Oh and I should start by saying I’m Dutch and while I also like Verstappen (of course), I’m a F1 fan first and foremost.
So what I do know is there are a lot of Verstappen fans since his success last year, both his promotion to RBR as well as his first win. Let’s take Spa for example, which is a stone’s throw away for almost all Dutch people. The amount of Dutch fans has been said to have increased by a factor of 10 or so.
In other words: roughly 90% (of the Dutch fans) wouldn’t have visited the Belgium GP otherwise. While I do believe some have become F1 fans due to Verstappen, I know from my own friends, family and co-workers that most people just like the fact that a Dutchman is driving among the top teams for the first time since Max’s father Jos drove alongside Schumacher at Benetton.
So yeah, a lot of fans just come for Verstappen and are not interested in any other driver. You could argue whether they’re true fans, but that’s another topic. Finally: I myself was at the British Race Festival at Zandvoort last Sunday, where they also used huge television screens to show the F1 race and the same happened: most people stopped watching when Max was out.
Travis Daye (@travis-daye)
11th July 2017, 17:01
@addvariety Thanks for your perspective (and others on this page too!). It’s great to hear the excitement that a young talent like Verstappen can generate, and I love the colour and enthusiasm that new fans from any country can bring to the sport!
For my part, perhaps I am still feeling a little sore from the fact that I can only afford to attend qualifying at Silverstone this year having been priced out of two race day tickets (a tough call, believe me!), and so the thought of that (small minority) of people simply giving up on watching the race seems particularly galling. I still plan on enjoying my Saturday to the last drop though!
BasCB (@bascb)
12th July 2017, 15:08
As I was there, watching the race from the lovely green fields along the upper straigth @travis-daye, @addvariety, rest assured that while a sizeable part of the people did in fact leave before the race was over (and from the looks they were a mix of all kind of people not just the Dutch fans, and not just from grandstands), this was hardly a majority and it was only towards the end of the race that you could really see the granstands emptying (but I saw that in Hockenheim last year too in the last 15-20 minutes).
There were many Dutch fans I spoke to in the que to get a fresh beer (water for me, since they did not sell any non alcohol beers) who made jokes about “coming for nothing” but almost all of them were enjoying themselves and enjoying the race anyway.
My guess is that many of those were leaving just not to get stuck in traffic because they were going home the same day – that goes for many Dutch, but probably also English, Italian, Finnish and German fans.
hahostolze (@hahostolze)
11th July 2017, 11:51
RE COTD: watching the race, I feel like at least 90% stayed. So, context.
MazdaChris (@mazdachris)
11th July 2017, 12:28
I like Kvyat a lot but I think he’s similar to Maldonado – on his day, a very capable driver who can overdeliver. But inconsistent and prone to mistakes. Like a lot of raw drivers – plenty of ability but perhaps needing some honing to be able to fully harness it. But like Maldonado, I think the biggest issue is Kvyat himself and his attitude. I don’t think he keeps a cool enough head when he’s in the car – too much angry swearing on the radio – and when things do go wrong he rarely acknowledges his own part in it. He needs to temper this a bit, and learn ho to calmly and logically analyse his own performance. Then I think he will be able to unlock a new level of his potential.
Ben Rowe (@thegianthogweed)
11th July 2017, 12:59
I do agree that he has shown to be very angry on the radio this year. But if anything, I do understand his frustration as most of his bad luck simply hasn’t been down to him at all. Sainz has also very often sounded like he doesn’t want to blame himself on the radio. His attitide is not looking great at times either. The excuse he made in Bahrain made it sound like he was fully blaming Stroll. He also said Kvyat came back on track like a madman in Baku and that caused him to spin. The commentators thought he just had a massive over reaction. He did say that he did over react to that so he probably just was very angry at that moment. Sainz was also complaining about Kvyat not helping him with a tow in qualifying in Canada when he refused to help Kvyat either earlier on. IMO, they both complain a lot on the radio, but Sainz has often complained when it either nobody has done anything wrong or it was actually his own fault. I think that when Kvyat gets a run of good luck, he will calm down and be able to show he’s better than he’s looked so far. I do think Verstappen is slightly similar in a way. Not in terms of mistakes, but as he’s having so much bad luck, he really does seem to be loosing his temper just a little too much at times. That is another think that if he starts to get some good luck, he’ll be fine. I don’t think Kvyat is as bad as Maldonado was. Kvyat has only made one big costly mistake this season which was in the last race and even Horner didn’t think it was that bad even though it took out Verstappen! He’s certainly doing better than he was last year.
bosyber (@bosyber)
11th July 2017, 14:18
I have to say I found those remarks by Marchionne a bit misplaced after Ferrari sacrificed any attempt by Raikkonen to fight Hamilton by using him against Bottas, again.
Okay, when the race announcers mentioned a ‘six-way’ fight for pole, I and @bascb laughed at the idea, not just because the Red Bulls were a bit behind, but also because we all knew Kimi wouldn’t feature, nor would he be fighting for the race win. Kimi isn’t where he once was, but they knew that when they re-signed him again, didn’t they?
Some of it has been lack of speed, or maybe lack of ‘hunger’, bad judgement by him on when to go, or bad luck, but too, Ferrari just don’t seem capable of getting a good strategy for two drivers, so when Vettel/Alonso/etc. doesn’t have an issue, Kimi/Massa is sacrificed to try out tyres, to hold up others etc. Fix that, and at least they’d have some chance of getting the WCC.
Evil Homer (@)
11th July 2017, 14:18
Maybe its just as simple as Horner covering his bets?
I know many people bag him but Horner is a smart operator and he can see good odds RIC, VER or SAI may go to Ferrari and replace Kimi next year. If Dan or Max then Sainz will move up and if Gasly get promoted Kvyat’s experience at Toro Rosso can only help. If Sainz gets the seat then Gasly and Kvyat still in STR.
Personally I would give Perez the Ferrari drive over Sainz (if Dan and Max REALLY cant get out of their contracts) but maybe he thinks Daniil should stay or maybe he is hedging his bets??
Rick Lopez (@viscountviktor)
11th July 2017, 15:02
Kvyat doesn’t deserve any more time, I notice he’s always the one locking up at the first corner causing accidents, I just don’t think he’s very good.
NewVerstappenFan (@jureo)
11th July 2017, 19:34
A lot of news comming in today.
Palmer copying Nico Hulkenberg, good for him. I am always happy to see a sportsman improving.
These are spots Lewis and Sebastian could improve upon: Bottas is so nice when he wins, so refreshing, humble. Other two are just drama queens. Lewis is in a Tauntrum because of what? 4th place… Meanwhile Seb is still unable to addmit his mistake. He is always defensive and does not let go.
I hope Bottas wins the championship.
And not sad to se Silverstone go. GB has stacks of awesome tracks. Over the years Silverstone is loosing its charm.
CanadianJosh
11th July 2017, 23:28
Having a Russian on the grid no matter how up or down or banging into other drivers he is or can become is maybe a politics thing. Especially with Putin showing up and I’m sure Russia pays a big fee to host a GP. Maybe Red Bull recieves money from ???? to keep this guy on the grid.