In the round-up: Robert Kubica is unlikely to dislodge Jolyon Palmer from his Renault race seat before the end of this season.
Links
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F1-Comeback rückt näher (Auto Motor und Sport - German)
Jolyon Palmer's contract makes it unlikely Robert Kubica will race for Renault this year but the FIA has indicated he meets their licence requirements.
Aston Martin studying 2021 F1 engine programme (Motorsport)
"If – and it really is the big if – there is a cap put on the number of people or the amount of money that you can spend on developing a new engine, and it's at a reasonable level, we have a good reason to study it."
Mallya not giving up on catching Red Bull (Autosport)
"We should've had nine (double points finishes) at least, but eight out of ten is pretty good."
Teams opt against buying shares in F1 (ESPN)
"While the window for this particular investment opportunity has passed, we are pleased with the collaborative discussions we are having with the teams."
Haas confirms its drivers. Minardi: 'A defeat for the Ferrari system' (Minardi)
"It would be a defeat for the whole Ferrari system that is directed at young drivers and Italian motor sport."
Mercedes entering Formula E series could be excellent news for F1 (The Sun)
"It means we can ditch the eco-friendly 1.6-litre hybrids and bolt in the ear-splitting V10s... why not got the whole hog and switch to V12s?"
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Comment of the day
A view on why Formula E has proved so popular with car manufacturers:
I guess it’s a marketing thing, some obscure way of saying ‘we care about the world, that’s why we’re properly researching green alternatives to fossil fuels’.
It’s like being part of Formula E is good in itself, regardless of your success, because it costs little money and gets you to showcase your ‘intentions’ to be ‘a good company’
It’s not the technological importance of it, but the way they are viewed in the most important cities in the world. No other motorsport series constantly visits the city centres themselves, so close to the people. It’s like a big, cheap billboard saying: ‘Look: we care too’.
@fer-no65
Happy birthday!
Happy birthday to Unitedkingdomracing, Oscar Jean Diaz Bustamante and Paolo!
If you want a birthday shout-out tell us when yours is via the contact form or adding to the list here.
Michal (@michal2009b)
26th July 2017, 0:08
We are getting closer and closer to see an amazing comeback after six and a half years. Come on Robert!
dhkg (@dhkg)
26th July 2017, 9:21
what so big deal about Kubica ? He’s already out dated !
Fukobayashi (@)
26th July 2017, 10:26
@dhkg prepare to eat your words. Is your surname Palmer by any chance?
dhkg (@dhkg)
26th July 2017, 11:03
1st I prepare to eat my words, Kubica already 32or 33, out in bussiness over 6years, specialy hybrid F1, lot of younger driver now why him ? After all I have no authority to make any decision same as you. If date back 2011 it’s not right for current driver to race other events.
For Palmer : should kick kim out before season start !
kpcart
26th July 2017, 11:09
Look at all the older drivers in f1- they are all beating the current generation young drivers as teammates. 32 is not old. Hamilton is 32 and wants to race 5 or 6 more years. Before his accident kubica was almost unanimously voted driver of the year amonst f1 fans and f1 media.
Doodd
26th July 2017, 11:48
I could tell You how Kubica was getting far better results then the car was showing, but instead just watch his pit box exit
Doodd
26th July 2017, 11:49
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXn93oxC3Qg
Ju88sy (@)
26th July 2017, 13:13
30-35 is when drivers are in their prime, if Kubica can make a come back in 2018 he can probably drive for 4-5 seasons and that would be a great use of a seat for Renault.
Fukobayashi (@)
26th July 2017, 13:22
@dhkg from your comments I don’t think you have actually seen Kubica race. So instead of chucking an inflammatory oar into the comments I suggest you either watch his old races or sit tight and see what a natural talent can do. I have the utmost faith that he will outperform many of the rookies who have come into the sport now and in the last few years.
Gabriel (@rethla)
26th July 2017, 15:22
@offdutyrockstar Is that a testament to Kubica or to paydrivers though… I have no doubt he will beat Palmer and Stroll. I have also no doubt he will beat oldtimers that doesnt belong in F1 like Massa and Kimi.
If he doesnt well then we just got one more driver who doesnt deserves to be there so its no big deal.
UnitedKingdomRacing (@unitedkingdomracing)
26th July 2017, 0:11
How stupid is the Sun? If Merc commits to both series in the long term. Instead of F1 going back to outdated technologies I see more technology transfer and an even bigger part of hybrid/electric power coming to F1.
anon
26th July 2017, 6:55
@unitedkingdomracing, I would have thought that, if you are based in the UK, you’d know already what an atrociously badly written propaganda rag The Sun is – yes, they probably are that stupid.
Pyon (@pyon)
26th July 2017, 7:58
+1 everything is to be expected from this piece of junk
BasCB (@bascb)
26th July 2017, 7:01
Indeed @unitedkingdomracing, I am sure that Mercedes has no interest into turning F1 back to an image of gaz guzzling cars. They want to let us forget about combustion engines with dirty diesel tricks and way off fuel averages and instead talk up their innovation and care for the environment, as @fer-no65 rightly mentions in the excellent COTD
Kgn11
26th July 2017, 8:11
Craig Scarborough made the same assumption on twitter and was immediately shutdown by Mercedes
Fukobayashi (@)
26th July 2017, 10:27
I don’t know why the Sun is ever included in the roundup. The worst of the worst.
Clive Allen (@clive-allen)
26th July 2017, 11:21
Presumably because Keith is not interested in censorship.
Fukobayashi (@)
26th July 2017, 13:25
@clive-allen it’s nothing to do with censorship, by your logic every single story pertaining to F1 between roundups should be included then? He quite clearly focuses on quality articles, and the vast majority are but a nonsense piece trying to link Mercedes in Formula E to a wholesale change in engine regulations back to fire breathing N/A engines is laughable.
Clive Allen (@clive-allen)
26th July 2017, 15:10
Both of you are saying you never want to read anything from the Sun and you expect Keith to exclude it forever. That is censorship. If Keith finds an interesting article in the Sun, I see no reason for him to ignore it. You, however, are perfectly entitled not to read it when you see its source. Do your own censoring, in other words.
MazdaChris (@mazdachris)
26th July 2017, 16:13
@clive-allen I understand the point you’re making but it’s not censorship. There will be publications already which Keith deliberately excludes. Censorship would be preventing people from reading The Sun. Selective promotion is not the same thing. Boycotting is not the same thing.
Neil (@neilosjames)
26th July 2017, 11:08
I defended Ben Hunt last time one of his articles was featured, and I’m against expelling certain newspapers from the roundup (case by case is best), but… I don’t understand how or why someone who actually knows stuff about F1 would write something so inane and naive-sounding.
‘One of the four F1 engine manufacturers has entered an electric series. Therefore, F1 can devolve back to using outdated, absurdly wasteful and irrelevant engines because SIMPLE.’
George (@george)
26th July 2017, 17:25
@neilosjames
Like most tabloid ‘journalists’, he writes what his audience wants to hear.
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
26th July 2017, 19:01
@unitedkingdomracing @pyon @bascb @offdutyrockstar @clive-allen @mazdachris @neilosjames @george It’s curious how this idea that some publications should be left out of the round-up keeps recurring. Particularly in the case of this which is clearly a comment piece.
I’ve never bought a copy of The Sun and doubt I ever will. But it’s one of the most widely read newspapers in my part of the world and that’s why how it chooses to refer to F1 is interesting to me.
For more on whether this and other publications should be left out of the round-up, see here:
https://www.racefans.net/groups/f1/forum/topic/the-round-up-the-daily-mail-and-fake-news/
Pyon (@pyon)
26th July 2017, 19:06
Publication does not means its worth being read. I hate the sun for all the rubbish they have “published” year after year. So if time teach me something about the Sun is this is piece of trash. Same apply to Daily Mail and many others “publication”. You are of course completely entitled to your opinion and of course allowed to publish whatever please you on your blog. But while you give me the permission to answer, I will always spit on anything that came out of the sun, and so without even reading it.
George (@george)
26th July 2017, 20:16
I don’t mind their inclusion, as you say their columns are where the general public (that aren’t interested in F1) get their information, so it’s useful to know what tosh they’re spreading.
Everyone here at least seems to understand they’re a joke, so it’s hopefully not doing any harm.
BasCB (@bascb)
27th July 2017, 6:04
I think you are right to include articles from all sources depending on what is in the article rather than publication etc @keithcollantine.
Everyone can then freely choose whether they want to read it (you don’t HAVE to read it if you don’t want, just not open the link) and can freely comment on the substance of the article, critisize it, correct false assumptions, give our opinion, or say how great of a point was made in the article. That is exaclty what makes the round-up a great daily F1 news platform!
bogaaaa (@nosehair)
26th July 2017, 0:45
So no deal for him to run at spa if his test goes well?
Toxic (@)
26th July 2017, 1:14
I doubt that any contract could really affect Renault’s decision here.
Deej92 (@deej92)
26th July 2017, 9:19
Exactly. Since when has a contract got in the way of a deal in sport? If they want him in the seat he will be.
Roth Man (@rdotquestionmark)
26th July 2017, 8:15
I have a feeling we are going to see Robert back this year. Renault just need to double and triple check Robert is 100% ready without putting any pressure on him, all the while managing expectations. A successful test from Robert and another calamity from Jolyon and I think we will almost be there. Fingers crossed. Also by playing down Robert’s chances it makes the story a bigger headline when it does happen (as well as being more respectful to Jolyon).
DB-C90 (@dbradock)
26th July 2017, 11:17
I think lately people have been a bit harsh on Palmer.
Can we at least wait until, he actually has a chance to start a race before we write him off completely. Renaults performance and reliability on his car has been abysmal of late.
I’m not saying he hasn’t underperformed earlier this season, but give him a break. It’s kinda hard to show any performance improvement if the car doesn’t even make the start grid.
Phil Norman (@phil-f1-21)
26th July 2017, 13:47
Well said! It seems that half the time his car does not make it though the race. I think he’s not made the start in the last two, or two of the last 3 races. Give him a chance to complete his contract.
I think there is a little too much delight in the idea of him being replaced.
kpcart
26th July 2017, 14:13
He has had about 30 races and scored only 1 point in a midfield car that is capanle of points in so many races. Also every race this year he has been outqualified by teammate. He lacks the pace to compete in f1. How much more chance do you give him, another 30 races? He has been given FAR TOO MUCH of a chance. The only way he will complete his contract is if he wins at hungary, but predictably hulk will beat him in qualifying and from there probably no points again. F1 needs the best drivers, not drivers That fail race after race after race to get the most out of their car.
Roth Man (@rdotquestionmark)
26th July 2017, 17:22
I’m sorry but he has been absolutely smashed in every session practicality. He’s had some terrible luck but it’s safe to say he ain’t got it.
Pyon (@pyon)
26th July 2017, 18:43
Hulk smash 1s on his face on every session they do together, we don’t need a race to see he does have the pace.
Chris (@tophercheese21)
26th July 2017, 10:05
It’s been funny to see the headlines getting more and more optimistic about his return. I hope he does come back and take Jolyon’s seat for the rest of the season.
Rick C138
26th July 2017, 1:13
Merc AMG F1:
“Although we are entering FE, those changes weren’t anything to do with it. Decision taken in the last week!”
“Release is very clear on mix of F1 AND FE. Any speculation [about leaving] F1 is unfounded. F1 is the global pinnacle, FE a new start up venture for us”
“We are in F1 as works team for a reason.”
Jason Miller (@flatdarkmars)
26th July 2017, 2:04
So, that whole system with the super license points, that was more like “guidelines” than “rules”, I suppose? Or was the system changed when I wasn’t paying attention?
Eoin (@eoin16)
26th July 2017, 4:19
@flatdarkmars the rules were implemented to prevent another Max situation happening. They were never meant to keep proven, F1 race winning drivers like Kubica from driving. Even Michael Schumacher would not have been eligible to return if the current rules were in place in 2010 but the FIA confirmed that they would have given him his license.
Jason Miller (@flatdarkmars)
26th July 2017, 4:20
Rules are for the little people. Got it.
Tristan
26th July 2017, 4:32
As is the way in all walks of life.
Jason Miller (@flatdarkmars)
26th July 2017, 4:47
I should clarify that I’m not saying that Kubica should be kept out of F1. My point is that the superlicense points
Jason Miller (@flatdarkmars)
26th July 2017, 4:50
…system is unnecessary, poorly crafted, and exists solely to steer young drivers into series where the FIA & FOM have controlling interests.
(Not sure why my previous comment auto-submitted itself in the middle of typing it).
Pat Ruadh (@fullcoursecaution)
26th July 2017, 10:05
I still reckon it’s primary purpose was to kill off Renault 3.5 as the choice feeder series
Fukobayashi (@)
26th July 2017, 10:29
@fullcoursecaution spot on.
kpcart
26th July 2017, 4:39
Read Them again. A driver that has shown good form in single seaters can get licence by doing 300km in a current car. Kubica is not exempt from that. He just needs to do 300km at hungary, do the 5 second cockpit evacuation test in 2017 car and pass FIA medical examination.
bob80
26th July 2017, 6:20
There is a rule saying that FIA can grant super licence to somebody who don’t have required number of point but has shown in the past exceptional skills driving single seater.
Hans (@hanswesterbeek)
26th July 2017, 6:55
That’s hilarious @bob80, because that’s exactly what Max did in Formula 3. So the ‘rules’ would not have stopped him on those grounds :-)
Jabbadap
26th July 2017, 11:48
Uhm, no. That rule is for drivers, who have had super-license before. See rules from FIA.
That e) contains formula 3, but Max should have won the series(Max were third) by according to that rule to obtain super-license.
Dewald Nel (@ho3n3r)
26th July 2017, 12:06
Max was second.
Dewald Nel (@ho3n3r)
26th July 2017, 12:08
Oh he was third, apologies. No idea why I thought he was second.
Jay Menon (@jaymenon10)
26th July 2017, 4:35
I dont understand why Ben Hunt is take seriously (i.e. why do Sky have him on?!). As usual, his article is fraught with errors:
“Formula One has always been seen as the most technologically advanced motorsport and the trickle down of that technology has improved our road cars, from the complicated hybrid engines to the basic seatbelt”
– I’m not debating the trickle down effect, but Hybrid engines were relatively mainstream (see Toyota Prius) before its introduction to F1. High performance hybrid sports cars (see Mclaren P1, Porsche 918) were already available before as well
– The modern 3 point safety belt was invented for/by Volvo, who have never had anything to do with F1
“But in recent years, F1 has if anything, become too complicated. It’s been designed and run by engineers and in doing so, it has alienated the fans.”
– By recent years you mean the last 37 years? From the time original Turbo engines became staple in the 80s, the role of engineers have increased exponentially. Watch the Beatrice-Ford documentary on YouTube. Those early engine management systems Ford were developing was pretty high end for its time. Engineers have not alienated the fans, Bernie did that for them.
“It was a move mainly driven mainly by the big-spending manufacturers”
– In the last 30 years, barring 1995 (Benetton was a Renault customer right?) and 2009, every World Championship was won by a works team, so this hasnt really changed.
“It hid behind the notion that F1 cars were the most innovative in the world”
– Cant think of anything automotive that operates as efficiently as the current F1 PU.
And honestly, can we go back to V10 and 12s just because FE is going to be the test bed? Are manufacturers going to stop developing and evolving petrol engine vehicles?
anon
26th July 2017, 6:59
@jaymenon10, even though he is often mistaken, it’s probably because he is pandering to them by telling them what they want to hear.
eljueta
26th July 2017, 10:18
@jaymenon10 this is the mistification that has been happening in the latest years, that F1 needs to be dumbed down, or that it was in the good old days. It was always run by engineers. That’s what makes it exciting.
Good counterpoint to that article.
Tristan
26th July 2017, 4:47
Nice quote from Andy Palmer. I seriously can’t wait to see the new regs they come up with.
Travis Oreali (@)
26th July 2017, 6:22
“Jolyon Palmer’s contract makes it unlikely Robert Kubica will race for Renault this year”
Yeah, because contracts prevent driver changes……
Hans (@hanswesterbeek)
26th July 2017, 6:56
Wait… so they gave Palmer a contract without any performance-related clauses in it? As in … if Joylon does not show he can be a stable points contender, then … ? Ouch Renault!
BasCB (@bascb)
26th July 2017, 7:29
I think that the performance clause most important to the team was bringing in that 6 million figure @hanswesterbeek.
Off course they can agree on termination, but the real question is, how much will it cost Renault, and will they be able/willing to pay that @Travis.
NewVerstappenFan (@jureo)
26th July 2017, 8:14
How much will a media bomb benefit Renault company if Kubica comes back? Is there any more universally loved driver?
Hans (@hanswesterbeek)
26th July 2017, 8:21
Good point @bascb :-)
And @jureo, I am not at all a marketing expert, but I doubt Kubica’s marketing value will be able to compensate for the 6 million lost by sacking Palmer :-)
BasCB (@bascb)
26th July 2017, 9:07
Oh, yeah, I am sure that Marketing is one of the draws of signing Kubica @jureo. But it remains to be seen whether that extra PR and the hope of him being better at getting points in the championship trumps the direct cost made to settle with Palmer.
kpcart
26th July 2017, 11:14
Kubica will effectively drive for free. 6 million is not much to lose if you get an alonso level driver, imagine the salary they would have to pay alonso.
Evil Homer (@)
26th July 2017, 14:42
I am a bit confused by this to be honest- if Palmer’s contract doesn’t allow him to be replaced by Kubica this year why has Cyril keep assuring him assuring him his seat is safe?
I cant see Palmer’s contract being so water tight, he was pretty fortunate to get the drive. I like Joylon but he has not delivered (apart for his terrible luck).
Where did the $6mill payout figure come from? That’s not much and the Palmer family not broke either!
If I were Renault I would give Robert a drive this year to test the water and see if he can still do it, it cant hurt.
I have seen a few comments asking who Kubica is- those who don’t know are probably new to F1 so please do yourself a favour and google him- was the best next new thing (better than Jules I think (RIP)) and if he wasn’t injured I would think he would have taken a World Championship (or two) of one of the others already.
Good times I hope.
Julian (Mr. Sakura) (@xiasitlo)
26th July 2017, 7:04
Finally someone who’s honest about Formula E. It’s just a handshake between the FIA and manufacturers following the Euro-crisis (among other things). What I do want to point out is another ”popular” secret. They’re using FE to invent future rules for F1. It’s sort of what the FIFA tries with those junior or lower tier championships too. They try more subs, a hockey-style shoot-out, 6 refs.
Remember folks: Every race here in the top 10 of the Rate The Race list is from the DRS-era and 60%(!) in that top 10 is from the V6-era (between you and me I think the percentage ain’t higher because McLaren stagnated and Mercedes wins got boring) All those great races without DRS? Spa 2008? Brazil 2008? Button&Brawn wins 2009? Turkey 2010? Even long term followers here voted hem lower just in favour of close racing and FIA knows that’s what people really want.
Do people remember A1 Grand Prix? Remember Powerboost?
See those weekend long ”spectacles”(didn’t we hear that term before from a guy named Sean hmmm)’ in the heart of cities with those street circuits (hint hint) with Saturday & Sunday races in FE?
(some of) Those new FE formats & rules will come to F1. You can deny it and give me a tinfoil hat. Just like I knew Halo was coming when Bianchi died. Just like Powerboost or FanBoost (and I know they spoken against it but then again Halo is here hmm). The non-purists won’t care. Don’t lie.
Pat Ruadh (@fullcoursecaution)
26th July 2017, 10:02
I’m not convinced its so much about testing rules and format from the FIA’s shoes, as it is about hastening the development of the all-electric F1 engine.
kpcart
26th July 2017, 11:17
Newer races that are rated great are usually because people are so used to boring f1, that when a good race comes along the joy is overwelming and people give instant 10s. Races that are rated 9 are races that used to be 7s or 8s in previous eras.
Mashiat (@mashiat)
26th July 2017, 14:38
That’s not true at all. The average race in in the early 21st century was much worse than it has been since 2010 especially.
kpcart
26th July 2017, 15:53
that’s debatable. 2010-2012 was a great era though. since then I would say it has been really poor, and this season has had highly rated races mainly because f1 has become so boring, so races with weird events (like baku), will get instantly higher rating because fans are so happy to FINALLY see f1 have an interesting race, and then the rating is exaggerated as these races only come up once every 3 years. Of all the champions in F1, I think Hamilton’s Mercedes era championships will go down as the least entertaining years in the sport.
zimkazimka (@zimkazimka)
26th July 2017, 18:08
That’s what always annoys me. It seems like for a lot of folks here the scales start at least at 5 and not 1. So even mediocre races are rated 6 or 7+, and we see comments like “of course there wasn’t a lot of action, but two minutes of the two hours were exciting and the racing was decent”.
NewVerstappenFan (@jureo)
26th July 2017, 8:06
Jolyon Palmer’s contract, if this is all that stands between RK drive, well I believe that contract ends this year?
RK should do tests to the end of the season, Friday running each race track. Practice and preparation would do him world of good.
nickfrog (@nickfrog)
26th July 2017, 9:50
@jureo
Yes but it ends after the last 2017 race, which makes it tricky to have Kub race retrospectively, short of Renault inventing the time machine.
Chalky (@chalky)
26th July 2017, 8:17
FE is more relevant to manufacturers now with both the UK and France setting plans for removing new petrol and diesel cars from 2040. The manufacturers are aware that there is a shift in technology and they need to show that they are at the forefront again.
It is no surprise to see FE attracting more manufacturers even if you don’t like the Fanboost and any other gimmicks that get put into it. This is the birth of new technology. What we need now is F1 to open up to allowing more freedom in using hybrid and electric power. Allow those crazy engineering ideas to come out, like we used to see back in our ‘golden years’ of F1. If F1 does not allow it, we may soon find it losing out too much to FE.
There may be an argument about spiralling costs, but the technology is needed and manufactures have to spend anyway. Why not let us enjoy them trying to use their development in racing while they are at it?
Melonfarmer
26th July 2017, 10:22
The best thing I can say about Formula E is that aerodynamics are not dominant. However, it is still processional despite having some amazing drivers. Is this the brave new world of motorsport? Sorry, I have already given up on it.
kpcart
26th July 2017, 11:19
In other words its the same as processional f1. Get used to electric, f1 will be electric one day soon also.
swh1386 (@swh1386)
26th July 2017, 10:52
Contracts aside it will be next year before (if) we see Robert racing in F1 again, more testing and training needed, but I’d dearly love to see Robert back in F1! ….and incidentally to see Aston Martin in F1 too
kpcart
26th July 2017, 11:21
Kubica doesnt need testing, he got in an f1 car first time in 6 years and was straight away as fast as ever, he will pick it up so so quick.
StefMeister (@stefmeister)
26th July 2017, 13:01
Testing with no real pressure & racing with the full pressures of a race weekend are 2 very different things.
Michael Schumacher showed good pace in the test’s prior to his F1 comeback in 2010, However he struggled to maintain that pace over a race weekend/race distance & also suffered from his race craft been rather rusty which were things that took him a while to get over.
I’ve no doubt that Robert can jump into a car & show good pace, It’s if he’s able to bring that pace over a race weekend, Be at the limit in qualifying & be on it through a race with the race craft & awareness that is needed. This is the stuff that any driver that is out for a few years more often than not tend to struggle with when they come back.
kpcart
26th July 2017, 16:49
That is all your oppinion. Schumacher was already losing form in his last year at ferrari, matchd and beaten by massa. While kubica was at top form and getting better in his last year. . Kubica says he is probably a better driver now, and after with rally experience, which he said in 2013 that rallying is harder on his right hand than f1. Oppinions aside lets see h w this plays out, kubica said he would never return unless absolutely sure of being able to do the job. Now he is able to do the job, watch out!
StefMeister (@stefmeister)
27th July 2017, 0:17
Yes Massa did match/beat Michael on very, very rare occasions in 2006. However Rubens Barrichello had also matched/beat Michael while he was at Ferrari which includes the 4-5 seasons where Michael was at his best/most dominant.
There was no real sign in 2006 that suggests that Michael was losing his form. In fact over the 2nd half of that season he won more races, Scored more podiums & had more fastest laps than any other driver on the grid.
matt
26th July 2017, 11:43
as long as kubica is not paying for his seat and is there in merit then i wont complain but i really don´t see what the big deal is about him.
I would prefer to see a new driver brought in.
KimiRaikkonen1207 (@kimiraikkonen1207)
26th July 2017, 13:49
1. Watch the 2008 season again – pay attention to Kubica
2. Watch the 2010 season again – pay attention to Kubica (especially at singapore)
3. Read Alonso’s comments on him
4. If you disregard all these, just at least watch some videos of his overtakes, and read his results on wikipedia with respect to his car and teammate (to be honest though, Heidfeld was a good driver)
5. If you do #4 you will notice he got a podium in his 3rd race
Can you still not see the talent he represents?
matt
26th July 2017, 14:14
Well, Kimi, I had not realised that you took the time out of F1 to comment on f1 fanatic, i suggest that you get back on the simulator and start winning some races!
With regards to kubica, no, i am not going to re-watch 2 full seasons in order to see if this guy was any good before his life changing accident or not. I know he was an OK driver but there have been many, many other ok drivers before and since him that have moved on.
If he gets a seat on merrit, so be it. But it would be better for the sports future if we got some fresh drivers onto the grid, not pay drivers, they need to go and bringing back old drivers does not sit well with me.
He was not *that* great remeber
Doodd
26th July 2017, 14:56
Ok, then just consider this: If Kubica before was just “ok” driver, and today he has 80% of what he got before the accident, than why would Renault invest in him? Give me one name in recent history of F1, that an F1 team would invest time and money to bring back and test 32 year-old, crippled driver. Renault insted go for Saniz or completely new face from lower categorres.
anon
26th July 2017, 18:26
Doodd, and very recently we had Red Bull saying that they would be prepared to consider an approach for Sainz from another team (Horner did not explicitly say it was Renault, but strongly hinted that it was them).
Ashwin (@redbullf1)
26th July 2017, 15:32
Well if Kimi were here he would say “man this guy is joke” ! xD
zimkazimka (@zimkazimka)
26th July 2017, 18:14
Bwoah.
KimiRaikkonen1207 (@kimiraikkonen1207)
26th July 2017, 19:29
Alonso recently said that Kubica was one of the best drivers of the 20th century. I won’t deny that I agree with him. Kubica 08 was championship material.
matt90
26th July 2017, 20:28
Trying to look back, I would say he was held in similar regard to how Ricciardo or Verstappen are now. A driver who possibly could prove to be on the level of Hamilton and Alonso given the chance, and one who I recall Keith making his driver of the year in 2008.
Nunu
26th July 2017, 13:00
Like KUB a lot – but forget all about him for a permanent raceseat. It never gonna happen – its a Renault commercial hype trying put pressure on their real goal for their drivers SAI, ALO, GRO maybe PER..
You can’t have one and a half arm, age 32 and off the racetrack for 7 years.. and still be the wc future for Renault in 2019…maybe as a reserve and testdriver…maybe
KimiRaikkonen1207 (@kimiraikkonen1207)
26th July 2017, 13:50
It depends on the lap times of Kubica in the Hungary test (of course, which relies upon whether he will push or not).
Doodd
26th July 2017, 14:07
“You can’t have one and a half arm” – yes you can. Kubica was testing with Renault in old car to see if he’s able to drive F1 car. And he can, but what is more important Renault know this as well and thats why they will give Kubica 2017 spec car.
“age 32 and off the racetrack for 7 years” Hamilton is 32, Alonso 35 and they are still top class drivers. 6 years off the racetrack is not entirely true. Kubica tested in lower classes, was driving in WRC (he won the WRC 2 championship on hes first try), and was training in simulators.
Phil Norman (@phil-f1-21)
26th July 2017, 13:56
I do think all the hype about Kubica is getting a bit over the top. I remember he was pretty good but someone referred him being an ‘Alonso level’ driver. I’m really not sure about that. Of course he has been out for a long time as well. Drivers are very rarely as good as they were when they were younger, after taking a break from the sport.
Renault should be trying to get Alonso to drive for them again next year or perhaps one of the younger drivers. I’m not being ageist either.
kpcart
26th July 2017, 16:05
he didn’t take a break from the sport, he was injured and was committed to return no matter how long it took. also he is an Alonso level driver, in 2010, he was voted by so many fan surveys and f1 media surveys as the BEST F1 DRIVER OF 2010, he then topped the 2011 testing times. he has retuned now apparently as quick as he ever was, maybe faster. Renault have the data- they aren’t playing games here.
Renault can have Kubica relatively for free instead of paying a slower younger driver, or pay $30 million for Alonso which will take $30million out of car development finances.
Phil Norman (@phil-f1-21)
26th July 2017, 19:10
Well we shall see won’t we.
I am well aware that he was seriously injured and I did not say he was awful. I just think people are lauding him like the second coming!
KimiRaikkonen1207 (@kimiraikkonen1207)
26th July 2017, 19:33
Kubica was the best of 08 as well. He was heading the championship until BMW pulled development funding to work on the 09 car
matt90
26th July 2017, 20:36
While he might have had a legitimate cause to be called the best in 2008, in 2010 I thought it looked like Polish people (as in F1 fans, casual fans, and complete non-fans wanting to support a fellow Pole) were being directed to any poll to vote for him in droves. He was very good, but better than Vettel, Alonso, or Hamilton?
anon
26th July 2017, 21:34
kpcart, the fact that Kubica topped one day of pre-season testing in 2011 isn’t a great indication of driver potential though – unless you are saying that Heidfeld, who had no prior experience with that car after being hastily drafted in by Lotus, was also a great driver as he also topped the times in pre-season testing (equally, that same Schumacher whom you’ve said had “lost his form” in 2006 also topped the times in pre-season testing, as did Barrichello).
@kimiraikkonen1207, mind you, Kubica was also being given favourable treatment by BMW-Sauber that year – remember them ordering Heidfeld to hand over the lead of the race, and ultimately the victory, in the Canadian GP to Kubica? Speaking of Heidfeld, it’s worth noting that Heidfeld actually beat Kubica more often than not in the time that the two spent at BMW-Sauber – unless you are saying that Heidfeld was a much better driver than he is given credit for?
Fukobayashi (@)
26th July 2017, 14:51
Thoughts on this Halo render?
https://drivetribe.com/p/ferrari-sf-18-with-new-halo-concept-R55nBHl1QCqJ-QKRSbxeLg?iid=YNvNA2R4Q9KN5nuHRumNDw
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
26th July 2017, 18:44
@offdutyrockstar There’s no indication the design is capable of complying with the regulations, without which it’s just a nice picture.
anon
26th July 2017, 21:39
@keithcollantine, to me, given how much closer the top part of that design is to the top of the helmet, it may be more aesthetically pleasing but would probably be much more dangerous to the driver – it looks like they could easily strike their head against the top loop if their head was thrown about in the cockpit.
Fukobayashi (@)
27th July 2017, 10:00
Agree on both counts, I just thought it may be interesting given the FIA’s comments that they intend to streamline the design and how teams will inevitably add aero to it. If it ended up looking anything like that I don’t think it’s that bad, but as mentioned that is probably just wishful thinking.
anon
26th July 2017, 18:58
MonAmi, and you hit upon the most important point when you talk about how he was considered at the time – however good he might have been then, after such a severe injury I would heavily question whether his past form is relevant now.
As for Alonso’s comments, I would treat them with a lot of caution given that, as Alonso is a close friend with Kubica, he is biased in Kubica’s favour and has sometimes been a bit overly flattering about Kubica’s prowess behind the wheel.
As a number of posters here noted, Alonso has previously exaggerated Kubica’s success in junior series – he claimed that “he won all the smaller categories” he competed in, when in fact Kubica won only one junior title. Furthermore, he also claimed that he had beaten other drivers on the grid during their junior careers, when in fact other drivers had managed to beat him (for example, Hamilton managed to beat Kubica in the 2004 European Formula 3 series even though Kubica was the more experienced driver of the two).
Now, I do not want to come across as attacking Kubica – it is, however, to note that Alonso is probably not giving an entirely honest opinion.
KimiRaikkonen1207 (@kimiraikkonen1207)
26th July 2017, 19:39
Probably true, but I’m still all aboard the Kubica hype train (though I hope everyone saying Palmer will be out by SPA won’t jinx it). Out of the drivers racing now, I would rate 2010 Kubica only behind Alonso, Hamilton, and maybe Ricciardo and Verstaopen. I just hope 17 Kubica is every bit as good as that.
anon
26th July 2017, 21:06
@kimiraikkonen1207, that would be higher than he was ranked by the team principals in 2010 then – when Autosport did their private poll of the team principals, they rated him as the 5th best driver that year.
Josh__F (@josh__f)
26th July 2017, 19:15
I have a feeling the HALO has sadly put an end to Roberts return. With his limited mobility in his arm, will he be able to get out of the car in the FIA stipulated time?
David Not Coulthard (@davidnotcoulthard)
27th July 2017, 9:44
A bit like the last time I saw a KUB article:
NOOOOOO
*sees calendar*
Oh my bad