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Junior series to get Halo from 2019

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In the round-up: Formula One feeder series are likely to get the Halo one year after it is introduced at the sport’s top flight.

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Amid the excitement of a possible return for Robert Kubica, has Jolyon Palmer been hard done by?

I think lately people have been a bit harsh on Palmer.

Can we at least wait until, he actually has a chance to start a race before we write him off completely. Renaults performance and reliability on his car has been abysmal of late.

I’m not saying he hasn’t underperformed earlier this season, but give him a break. It’s kinda hard to show any performance improvement if the car doesn’t even make the start grid.
DB-C90 (@Dbradock)

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Keith Collantine
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  • 59 comments on “Junior series to get Halo from 2019”

    1. What could be in the works for F1’s new engine regs to attract these new engine manufacturers?

      1. Affordability.

      2. As above, affordability and a simpler set of regulations.

        Most of the complaints from engine manufacturers about the current power unit regulations are around the complexity and cost of the MGU-H, so I expect we’ll see something along the lines of higher-revving (for the fans) single or twin turbo engines with KERS working in a similar fashion to the pre-2014 power units.

    2. I still don’t understand what the halo does. Look at the photo above. It is clear a tire or debris could come straight down like the Surtees and Wilson incidents, and Massas event probably would have still happened because the debri didn’t come directly from the front. Also Bianchs impact was so severewe are told that wouldn’t have been prevented either. So what really gives here?

      1. Neil (@neilosjames)
        27th July 2017, 1:30

        I think what gives is… the people in charge confidently assured the world “we’ll do something!”, despite having no idea what that something would actually be. And once they’d assured us (and people more important than us) of that, there was no turning back, so they had to just bolt on a half-a-job metal ring because it was the only option available.

      2. The cars typically have a forward velocity, so tires or whatever are more likely to hit the halo than not.

        I’m not really saying its a great idea, just refuting the notion it is half baked or ineffective.

        I could do without it in f1, but it seems obvious for the lower classes.

      3. @ibrahim Tyres and debris never come straight down, because of the velocity of the driving car (see @slotopen). So either the impact is frontal (Surtees) or diagonal (Wilson). The (truly hideous) halo will be very effective in these cases and I am certain Surtees and Wilson would still be alive if their car had been equipped with a halo.

        Massa’s incident is irrelevant, because the helmets and the visors have been improved because of the incident. A spring will now not penetrate the helmet. And the impact itself was not big enough to cause internal brain damage (like with a tyre).

        1. Actually Massa saw the spring coming and moved his helmet to the right; otherwise it would have hit him full in the face.
          There is an onboard movie of the incident, I’m sure you can find it. The rightmost part of the spring, which hit his helmet and eyebrow, would have hit the central stalk of the HALO instead and be pushed upwards.
          If the spring had hit the side bar next then it would have veered off to the left, as that bar is slanted sideways. It is highly unlikely that it would have hit the helmet.

    3. RE:CoTD

      I dont think people or us the fans have been harsh on Palmer by any means. He didnt exactly the set the world alight in his first season, and now, he hasnt progressed, more like regressed. He has been obliterated by Hulk thus far.

      Fair enough, unreliability has played its part, but he has not showed enough when he’s been running. Max Verstappen has had a torrid season when it comes to reliability, so has Alonso, but they’ve both been on the pace when they’ve been running.

      This is F1. We can cut rookies some slack, but when you’re a sophomore, no more excuses. He’s had his shot, and has been off the mark. There are plenty of other more deserving drivers out there.

      1. @jaymenon10 Palmer has been, by quite a massive margin, the driver with the fewest laps driven in 2017, of all current drivers no one has had less track time, in testing and afterwards. Palmer has got a reputation for being a slow learner, I don’t know what you can learn by having a chance to.

        1. He had an entire season to learn in 2016. Doesn’t seem like he’s a particularly good learner either.

        2. I thought Max Verstappen was the one with the fewest rounds. Last season he seems to improve in the last part but i was hoping he would continue on that but instead he moved backwards. Even in practices and qualifitions he was behind his teammate (who was seen as avarage by most F1fanatics) so Palmer most be really bad.

          1. Laps completed by drivers so far, (bottom of the list)

            15. P.WEHRLEIN 467 76.68%
            16. S.VANDOORNE 461 75.70%
            17. J.PALMER 414 67.98%
            18. C.SAINZ 413 67.82%
            19. F.ALONSO 351 57.64%
            20. M.VERSTAPPEN 328 53.86%
            21. A.GIOVINAZZI 58 9.52%
            22. J.BUTTON 57 9.36%

        3. Fukobayashi (@)
          27th July 2017, 10:05

          Ridiculous COTD considering he had the whole of 2016 and under performed then also.

          I think people forget that he is not a year 1 rookie because he drives like one.

        4. I’ve ran the numbers.

          Palmer has a total mileage of 5770.003km this year (without counting qualifying sessions). This is 1835.228km less than Hülkenberg, and the lowest besides Alonso (with 5098.878km).

          If we use only FP sessions mileage, Palmer again has the lowest besides Alonso (2566.82km to 2392.418km). Everyone else is above 2995km (with Verstappen being the lowest at 2995.284km). It’s worth noting that FP sessions in Monaco should be worth at least 200km.

          Using race mileage, things change a bit. Verstappen has the lowest mileage (surprise!) at 1652.183km. Alonso hits 1822.01km. Palmer is third with 1885.818km.

          Fair enough, he’s had some bad luck. And considering his partners in misfortune are Alonso and Verstappen, it would perhaps be unfair to compare him to them. Still, he’s completely off-the-pace compared to Hülkenberg. To the best of my knowledge, there hasn’t been any official session this season where Palmer set a faster time than Hülkenberg (with the exception of mechanical issues, if there were any).

          1. @casjo

            To the best of my knowledge, there hasn’t been any official session this season where Palmer set a faster time than Hülkenberg (with the exception of mechanical issues, if there were any).

            That sounded extraordinary so I had to check it.

            There was one practice session where Palmer set a quicker time than Hulkenberg, which was Saturday practice in China:

            http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/04/08/ferrari-lead-mercedes-final-practice/

            Hulkenberg was quicker than Palmer in every first* and second practice session so far this year, and in every phase of qualifying.

            Palmer has set quicker fastest laps than Hulkenberg in race on three occasions this year: Spain, Monaco and Austria. However I would argue that’s not relevant here, as the objective in a race is to be quicker over the entire race distance. By that measure Palmer has only come out ahead once, in Austria.

            Still, very close to a complete half-season of defeat at the hands of his team mate.

            *Palmer was also quicker than Sirotkin in first practice in Austria.

      2. @jaymenon10

        Agree completely.

        Max and Alonso have had worse reliability than Palmer, yet they have shown their pace and craft. Palmer has been absolutely mauled by Hulkenberg in every practice session, qualifying session and race in the season so far. He trails his teammate by a larger margin than any other driver on the grid. And as you said, he’s a sophomore, so it’s not like he hasn’t had time to get his act together. I actually think the non starts saved him from further embarrassment he would have had in races.

        I think the criticism is completely justified.

      3. Yeah @jaymenon10, @todfod, sure, Palmer has been having quite a bit of bad luck with the car. And it is sure that it hasn’t helped him.

        Last year he was only getting slightly less meh in the last 3rd of the season, but we haven’t really seen much progress from him since then at all. Maybe his last few races would have shown he did make progress. But this is F1 and he already got (bought) a second season to prove his merit, and we have seen that he is probably not the driver to make a Renault get anywhere close to the front of the grid. So sorry Joylon, goodbye.

      4. This is F1. We can cut rookies some slack, but when you’re a sophomore, no more excuses.

        @jaymenon10 One the one hand, I’d like to say there’s Grosjean.

        On the other, I can’t really think of another (recent, anyway) example off the top of my head anyway :) (that, and if it’s easier to make a fast car reliable than the other way around, I guess the same goes for drivers, including GRO and even MAL?)

      5. I really don’t like criticising drivers but I am sorry to say that Palmer is just not up to the mark.

        1. Evil Homer (@)
          27th July 2017, 14:49

          Agreed on Palmer- I think all these guys are so talented to get to F1 and yes, some are helped by money from Dad (or Mum) but none get this far on zero speed and talent.

          Some step up, some don’t. He has had zero luck this this year but also did nothing special last year did he!?
          He needs to do something special like grab a P7 or P6 on race day, but I cant see him doing that- but I hope he proves me wrong!

    4. What I don’t understand about the halo is that if it really is a matter of safety, why wait until 2018 for F1, and 2019 for feeder series? Why not implement it immediately?

      The feeder series I somewhat understand a delay as they haven’t tested with at all it yet, but the F1 teams have, it’s a bolt on device and if safety is the paramount reason for it then why delay? Why not have it mandatory from Belgium onwards?

      1. If the car has not been designed from the ground up with the halo in mind , it is more dangerous. The load directions and stresses on the chassis imposed by the halo (in the event of an impact) would not have been sufficiently taken into considerations if it’s just a bolt-on for 2017.

      2. The test so far I dont think were with a full strength halo. Now it has to be designed into the structure to actually work and sustain a high force from a collision. JMO

      3. To make it work in accidents, the points where it gets attached to the car need to be sturdy enough to withstand the forces involved. The Halo they tested is real, but the attachment points were just enough to keep it on the car.

        The current chassis are not built with that in mind @philipgb, so it is impossible to do that, it would mean all teams would have to build new ones and do the crashtests on them etc.

        1. If they are serious with the Halo they should be seethrough versions instead of steel.

    5. Indycar testing a beautiful new car and in F1…

      1. Fukobayashi (@)
        27th July 2017, 10:08

        +1

        I spend a lot of time in the states and I intend to go and see an Indy race this year, if nothing else to see some sleek looking machinery.

        Will be nice to compare as i’m also going to Singapore this year. I won’t be going to any F1 races next year!

        1. Fukobayashi (@)
          27th July 2017, 10:08

          sorry Indy next year*

      2. Compare the new IndyCar’s side view to current F1 monstrosities with their shark fins and t-wings. The F1 car is hideous, and looks absolutely massive in length.

        The new IndyCar is easily the best looking Open Wheel car on earth! It will be lower cost, less weight, have additional safety with option for a windscreen, updated electronics, and will race better due to less turbulence from all the aero bits which went too far during aero wars.

        Fernando, your car has arrived.

    6. F1 cars are like my wife.
      Gaining 5 kgs every year…

      1. Roth Man (@rdotquestionmark)
        27th July 2017, 6:19

        Haha CoTD

      2. Fukobayashi (@)
        27th July 2017, 10:09

        Haha, very good. COTD!

      3. At least our wives aren’t growing new appendages.

      4. This would be the most deserving COTD of 2017.

    7. Roth Man (@rdotquestionmark)
      27th July 2017, 6:18

      Silly CoTD. We’ve seen enough over the last 1.5 years to know that a one armed Kubica is faster than Palmer. He’s had a fair whack and failed. The performance difference between himself and hulk has been comparable to Massa, Stroll. At least Stroll has genuine excuses (and team finance changing bucks).

      1. Fukobayashi (@)
        27th July 2017, 10:39

        Guaranteed if Stroll had a season under his belt as Palmer already does he would be much more impressive than Palmer.

    8. The dissease is spreading quickly…what about halos on motorbikes and bicycles? Is it possible to have them mounted on scateboards? They gonna save the world and the clima too!

    9. When will the rise of the minimum weight come to an end? At some point sooner or later enough is enough even though it doesn’t have an impact on lap times or the quality of racing, but it might have an impact on some other things.

    10. The problem Palmer has now is that, Stroll has scored points 3 times in a row, has even got on the podium, not bad for the supposed “worst” driver in F1. Wehrlein in a “Sauber” has scored points twice!!.

      1. Fukobayashi (@)
        27th July 2017, 10:10

        Wehrlein was only ever underrated by those who bought into the arrogant personality rumours imho. I have always thought he was a very good driver.

    11. Looking into the future, it will be quite interesting to see what kind of minimum weight the 2020/2021 rules will have. It wasn’t that long ago when the cars were just 600 kg, soon they’ll be over 130 kg heavier. While heavier cars might lead to reduced costs (as not that many exotic materials will be used), this is a place to easily reduce the lap times.

      Really sad to hear about Leo Kinnunen’s death as well. Although he made just a single start in F1, he was a proper racer; his lap around Targa Florio is on par with Stefan Bellof’s lap of the Nordschleife in 1983.

      1. To me the real problem with additional weight could be… Safety. A lighter car has less energy released in case of a crash. Meaning better absorption measures from the track (walls, etc), more effective life cell etc. I wonder what a real engineer would say on this subject (I’m only n industrial engineer so not all that versed in mechanics)

        1. Well cars just crash with higher energy… Roughly linear with weight increase. Even worse is speed increase. Probably cars this year would crash with roughly 50% more energy than 600kg ones..

          Fuel also brings a lot of weight. Cars now start at close to 830kg on startline?

    12. On CoTD.
      In F1 the first guy you’ll have to beat is your teammate.
      Even if the car is working Palmer is getting smashed by Hulkenberg comfortably.

      Hulkenberg average starting position is 10th. Palmer 16th. On average Hulkenberg is one second faster in Qualifying trim.
      Hulkenberg has scored 26 points this season on a consistent basis and not one great result that flatters like Stroll’s podium.
      Out of the times both Renaults finished and Hulkenberg scored points (3 times out of 5) Palmer didn’t come further then 11th.
      He deserves all the criticism right now.

    13. I agree with cotd. I think Palmer’s confidence has been completely zapped, at the same time his learning experience with the 2017 cars (which many drivers went through) has been constantly interrupted. Stroll has been used as a comparator and I think it is interesting to see how awful he was in the first few races until he got on top of the car. I don’t think Palmer will ever be in the Alonso class but I would love to see him have two clean weekends (with comparable equipment to Hulkenburg) before I vote to sack him, and yes it will be interesting to see Kubica in a 2017 car.

      1. I agree as well. He knows his career is on the line so give him one more chance.

        I think it quite unlikely that Renault will replace him before the end of the season anyway. I think they are thinking of Kubica for next year.

    14. Whoa the halo actually looks pretty good from that angle.

      A bit like how Force India introduced their nose in 2014, I guess.

      1. Fukobayashi (@)
        27th July 2017, 10:14

        I thought the opposite, the structure looks far too upright. Hopefully they will extend the central strut further down the nose so it will at least be at something close to a 45 degree angle in the final version. Make the point where the strut meets the halo significantly thinner and we may have something that is somewhat less offensive to the eyes hopefullly.

    15. Thanks for the unexpected COTD Keith

      I knew it would be contentious to say the least and reiterate that I do agree that he’s underperformed (and is on notice) but just wanted him given a chance of at least some redemption before the year’s out.

      What will be interesting is how the comments go if Kubica’s test times are less than flattering. Certainly he was a great driver but the cars are completely different now as was found by By a retuning multiple world champion.

      Let’s see how things pan out.

      1. Evil Homer (@)
        27th July 2017, 15:09

        @dbradock
        I like Palmer, but was surprised when he got the drive this year- I hope he sent K-Mag a bottle of …..whatever he drinks.

        Issue with Palmer (as my last post) as he has never grabbed that awesome drive that was unexpected and keeps you a seat for another year, maybe when you shouldn’t have one.

        And Renault has a PR issue in they cant produce a competitive PU/Engine like Mercedes or Ferrari……… in comes the White Knight.

        If Kubica is faster or anywhere near Palmer on pace (and he will be) he needs to get that drive right away- it will show Renault as the new good news story- give the old guy a new chance, get rid of Palmer who sadly isn’t in their long term plans but more importantly for them distract from their constant reduced engine performance.

    16. RIP Leo Kinnunen
      Bottas-Räikkönen 1-2 would be a perfect way to commemorate his sad passing.

    17. Re COTD

      The way you’ve framed your sentence, seems like Palmer has had 10 DNSes…

      1. Fukobayashi (@)
        27th July 2017, 13:08

        And didn’t race an entire season last year…

    18. I was actually talking to somebody from Renault about Jolyon Palmer not too long ago & was flat out told that even if they wanted to replace him they don’t feel they could given how abysmal his luck & reliability have been.

      According to the guy I spoke to even when the car’s been running it hasn’t been running at 100% a lot of the time & additionally Jolyon has also been a spec behind what Nico Hulkenberg’s been running at almost every race due to problems on Friday forcing a downgrade on whatever broke due to a lack of new parts been available because of how quickly Renault are pushing new things through.

    19. Evil Homer (@)
      27th July 2017, 15:14

      @keithcollantine – could you please do a vote who would like the Halo or who would not?
      No comments on why or why not- just a yes or no.
      Keen to see the result.

    20. It is good news that the halo is being brought in to the junior racing categories. I feel that safety is where F1’s influence on the rest of motorsport really matters. The high profile of F1 comes with high responsibilities, and it is good to see the best minds step forward and address this issue reasonably. Aesthetically, the halo might be a disappointment, but it is by far the best solution they have come up with to address preventable head injuries, in terms of strength, visibility, and cost. I personally like the look of the Lotus 49, but would be reluctant to watch it being driven in anger through a field of similar cars due to it’s now completely avoidable hazards.
      As divisive as this halo issue has been, I think that it is nothing compared to the continuing use of DRS in the sport that I love. I guess we all have our priorities.

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