Sauber’s 2018 engine deal with Honda cancelled after just three months

2018 F1 season

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Sauber’s plan to use Honda engines in 2018 has been cancelled, the team has announced, less than three months after it was revealed.

Frederic Vassuer, who recently took over as team principal from Monisha Kaltenborn, confirmed the development on Thursday.

“It is very unfortunate that we have to discontinue the planned collaboration with Honda at this stage,” said Vassuer.

“However, this decision has been made for strategic reasons, and with the best intent for the future of the Sauber F1 Team in mind. We would like to thank Honda for their collaboration, and wish them all the best for their future in Formula One.”

Honda general manager Masashi Yamamoto said its commitment to F1 remains “unchanged” despite the fact it will no longer supply two teams next year.

“We had built a good relationship with Sauber and had been looking forward to entering the 2018 F1 season together,” said Yamamoto.

“However, during discussions after management changes at the team, we reached a mutual agreement to call off the project due to differences in the future directions of both parties.”

“We would like to thank Sauber for their cooperation, and wish them all the best for their future. Despite this announcement, Honda’s passion for motorsports and strong commitment to Formula One remains unchanged.”

Sauber announced its planned technical collaboration with Honda in April. It was the last major development announced by Kaltenborn before she stepped down in June. Vasseur formally took over her role ten days ago.

The team has been a Ferrari engine customer since 1997 except for the period between 2006 and 2009 when it was owned by BMW. It is using year-old power units this season.

A statement from Sauber said a new engine partner “will be announced shortly”.

Honda returned to Formula One in 2015 with McLaren but has endured three unsuccessful seasons so far. Their planned tie-up with Sauber had prompted speculation McLaren was looking to offload its engine partner and work with another manufacturer next season.

Sauber had previously announced it will run Honda junior driver Nobuharu Matsushita in next week’s test at the Hungaroring.

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Keith Collantine
Lifelong motor sport fan Keith set up RaceFans in 2005 - when it was originally called F1 Fanatic. Having previously worked as a motoring...

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52 comments on “Sauber’s 2018 engine deal with Honda cancelled after just three months”

  1. Fukobayashi (@)
    27th July 2017, 14:59

    Wow, no messing about from Fred.

  2. Next up, Matsushita replaced for the post-Hungary test.

    1. It might be the other way round – Matsushita testng one of the consessions Sauber had to make to Honda in the discussions about terminating the contract @beneverard

  3. I wonder what this will mean to Honda and McLaren…

    1. Fukobayashi (@)
      27th July 2017, 15:27

      In the end i’d wager nothing. Just more brave faces and awkward questions from the press, they are getting pretty good at batting it away now after 3 years though.

      1. @offdutyrockstar

        No, you’re forgetting something my friend. The deadline to commit yourself to an engine supplier pasted the 22th of May, to keep it short = a team can only leave that supplier if that supplier OR leaves F1 or gets approval from the strategy group (and I think Zak Brown already hinted Ferrari and Mercedes like McLaren’s place now) or had no formal contract to begin with, which could be the case here, as Kaltenborn is known for this way of business.

        So this either means Kaltenborn deserves to never come back into F1 or Honda let Vasseur know they have a 50% chance they are leaving F1 at the end of this season.
        So you should be concerned.

  4. Well that one very brief team and engine partnership.
    I sure hope Sauber know what they are doing and have sufficient funds.

    1. I think it just goes to show how undesirable Honda’s engine really is. If there was one team on the formula 1 grid that would neglect performance for additional funds, it was Sauber. For them to turn Honda just shows that Honda doesn’t really belong in formula 1.

      It’s an absolute shame that Mclaren couldn’t get themselves a better engine supply. Honda will systematically destroy Mclaren race by race up until Mclaren is just a shadow of the team it used to be.

      1. A very sad state of affairs to be honest, and I’m wondering if Mclaren are already damaged such that they can only make noise but can do nothing about it.

      2. I think McLaren has been just a shadow of itself for years now. It’s sad.

  5. Probably the better thing to happen for Sauber, though not so much for Honda.

    Sauber are in no position to take on an engine supplier that is worse than their current. If they manage to get Mercedes engines or stay with Ferrari, they can probably get discounts by running an exciting driver like Wehrlein, Giovinazzi or Leclerc, rather than Matsushita.

    For Honda, this means that they will remain dependant on McLaren, a team which is very much done being patient.

    This could well end up being an Asiatech or Cosworth scenario, where no teams end up wanting an existing engine supplier…

  6. I didn’t see this coming. Hopefully, they’ll switch to Mercedes power rather than continue as a Ferrari-customer next year.

    1. Let them just use a current year engine (Merc or Ferrari), and benefit from engine development through the year.

      1. The chassi is built around the 2016 engine spec.
        Don’t know if the upcoming updates can fix an upgrade to the 2017 engine. Would be great but I doubt it is possible…

        1. I didn’t mean that for the 2017 season, but for them to use a 2018 engine in 2018.

    2. Fukobayashi (@)
      27th July 2017, 16:31

      More than likely Renault, given Frederic’s prior role.

      1. @offdutyrockstar given he left the team under a cloud, it’s not likely…

      2. Rather more likely is staying with Ferrari. They would need the other teams agreement for a 4th Mercedes supply (not going to happen) and I think currently the same would go for a Renault deal, even if Vasseur being the boss now, that would be an option at all @offdutyrockstar, as @optimaximal points out.

    3. I’d like for them to use Ferrari with Leclerc and Giovinazzi as the drivers

    4. This year’s Ferrari engine seems to have decent power so far, so there isn’t any reason why being fixed with the last engine of this season won’t be a serious impediment.

  7. A statement from Sauber said a “new” engine partner will be announced shortly.

    Does this mean a Renault/Merc engine?

    1. Renault is a name that Vasseur has past association with. I think it would be the only power unit Sauber might be able to afford other than Honda or obsolete Ferrari engines. I don’t see how the Mercedes system could be significantly cheaper than the 2018 Ferrari system, so if Sauber aren’t able to afford that then I think we can rule out the Mercedes option as well. If Sauber end up “without an engine supplier” then the rules are they have to accept being supplied by the manufacturer with the least number of customers, which is Honda.
      There is also the small matter that the FIA was notified in May that Sauber would be using Honda engines next year, and that will need to be rectified. Also, if Honda had already started making the engines for Sauber then they might be expecting some compensation to cover their expenses.

  8. Good to see Fred has more common sense than Monisha. As long as Honda powers some team on the F1 grid, Sauber won’t be a finishing last in the WCC.

    1. I don’t blame Monisha for Sauber’s woes. Had the demands not been too stressful, Peter Sauber himself would have been running the team.
      BMW dropped them without even an F1 entry, the easiest thing to do would have been to just pack up and go home.
      Monisha did wonders to keep that team running, when so many teams have dropped out. Many still had a job for the fight in her.

    2. Lack of funding has been a serious impediment for Sauber for a long time. I believe most people suspect the main attraction of using Honda engines was because they were cheap or free, and I suspect Kaltenborn’s plan was to put the money that would have been spent on Ferrari engines into developing a better car. Unless there is an increase in funding from Long Bow, a better payout from Liberty Media, or another manufacturer turns up, Vassuer will find himself in a similar predicament as Kaltenborn did.

      1. I believe I have spelt the new Sauber Team Principal’s surname incorrectly (I had copied how it was spelt in the second line of the article), and that it should be spelt “Vasseur”. My apologies for any offence.

  9. petebaldwin (@)
    27th July 2017, 16:38

    Wow. As we know, contacts mean nothing to Sauber so I suppose this shouldn’t be a surprise but it certainly leaves Honda in an interesting position if McLaren move on. All that money spent developing a terrible engine and they can’t even sell it to anyone!

    1. All that money spent developing a terrible engine and they can’t even sell it to anyone!

      According to Alonso, the GP2 market is wide open for them… @petebaldwin

  10. It’s a pretty damning indictment on Honda’s inability to get out of their current plight that the team which is currently the slowest on the grid doesn’t want their powerunit, even if the terms of the Honda deal were (supposedly) more favourable than their current deal.

    1. @geemac well, the constructors championship suggest that Honda were looking to move forwards to a top 9 team tho. It’d have been an improvement for them!

  11. Honda reliability facts:

    -Maximum mileage:
    -MGU-H: 300km.
    -MGU-K: 600km.
    -Turbo: 600km.
    -ICE: 900km.
    -Engine partnership deals: 3 months.

  12. Its all about data collection – and without another team running their motor it will be difficult for Honda to collect these data fast enough… which explain why Ferrari are so eager to keep Sauber under their wing…

    1. Ferrari could end up using this to place Giovinazzi at Sauber.

      – Giovinazzi to Sauber
      – Leclerc to be Sauber/Haas/Ferrari tester like Giovinazzi this year
      – Ericsson to stay at Sauber (Longbow connection)
      – Perez to Ferrari
      – Pascal to Force India
      – Kimi stays at home

      That would work for me anyway.

      1. You missed one, @eoin16
        – Grosjean goes searching for a brake disc

        1. @phylyp haha he would just complain about it when he found it!

    2. Ferrari aint that eager with their year old package.

  13. mark jackson
    27th July 2017, 18:37

    So it seems Mclaren are stuck with Honda or Honda might pull out of F1?

  14. Bet McLaren wish they did what Sauner just have….get rid of Honda 3 months in without having to race with them. Thing is McLaren wouldnt have the Honda excuse to cover up the increasingly poir carscthey were producing. McLaren is dying and is in a worse place than Williams ever fell to. I think McLaren will end up like BRM, Vanwall, Tyrell etc.

    1. Very true, Mclaren’s decline began to show itself around 2011, although they were still winning races, but the had began to lose focus, pursuing irrelevant achievements. By 2012 the rot had set in and they had completely lost focus and an eye for detail.
      By 2013 they were puting more effort in tooned than the races. And by 2014 they were running their cars trailing a parachute in preparation for the slow speed Honda Earth car. And since 2015, they’ve been trying to get away with using dynamite as race fuel.

    2. As a FI one team maybe but as a successful car manufacturer, not a chance. Management have to make a decision in regards the “marketing value” they get from a F1 team to promote not just the sale of road cars but their electronic and technology resale businesses. If they say, not much, the F1 team will fold.

      Problem for F1 is the grid is down to 18 cars. Throw in a barely viable Sauber and you get a decidedly skinny F1 grid.

      Honda back’s its bags when McLaren withdraws (or takes a sabbatical) from F1 that leaves three engine suppliers and 8 teams.

      Are those figures a commercial selling proposition for F1?

      Problem for F1 is accumulative if Honda’s engine are not up to pace. McLaren will pull back (not wanting to be a customer team of engines from their opposition in the road car market) and commercial selling power of F1 is diminished.

      The USA is McLaren’s road cars biggest market and a pullout from F1 is not going to hurt their sales in that market. They promoted the one off Indy 500 sponsorship just to push the McLaren brand in the USA.

      Problem for F1 will be if McLaren no longer feels that F1 are giving them the returns to promote their road car sales. If not they are gone. Now if Red Bull do the same exercise for the promotion of their drinks, followed by Mercedes for their cars, F1 is gone. For Ferrari to be associated with a dying brand would not tolerated by their marketing team. With Mercedes leaving the DTM, signs are there for the F1 owners to step up and breath live into their failing brand. Wishing Honda away is not doing that at all.

      1. Futher would add that the BRM, Vanwall and Tyrrel racing teams as an example where McLaren is heading is plainly wrong. Each of those teams (like many before and after them) were only in the business of racing. They had no other irons in the fire. They relied on rich people spending their wealth to maintain noncommercial entities. Once the owners lost interest or run out of money, the teams folded.

        McLaren, Williams, Ferrari, Haas and Mercedes are not in that position. They have other irons in the fire and F1 is but an adjunct to promote their businesses.

        Red Bull and the other teams are in a position where they are maintained by the whim of wealthy owners.

        Red Bull pulled out of Nascar to fund and push other promotional activities. When they go (and yes I think it is a when, if F1 goes down further in marketing value) the grid minus 4 red bull’s, two McLaren’s and two Sauber’s is what? Nothing.

        1. I did not mean the McLaren team. The owners may well sell off parts of the group like F1 now Ron is gone. They have a lot of investment in the group and strike whilst the iron is hot or luke warm in terms of F1. The road cars had huge investment, the profits they return are very small if they are real (many cars pre registeted by dealers to fudge the accounts) will take 100 years to cover original investment. They flood the market with new model every few months but only a small buying group leading to horrendous depreciation. In USA McLaren are perceived as risky amongst buyers of such cars. I think McLaren owners will want investment back fast and sell to a manufacturer. F1 as well maybe sold. Their tech group is good, relativley cheap to run and turns good profit. They will have elements sold off, all the famous stuff. Maybe the name will endure, maybe they can get into selling pushchairs, imagine McLaren push chairs.

          1. I guess you must different financials than those officially published by the group.

            Care to share your source?

            I geot mine here and they depict the complete opposite of your painted picture

            https://www.automotiveworld.com/news-releases/mclaren-automotive-accelerates-fourth-consecutive-year-profitability-record-sales-2016/

            “Operating profit of £65.8M in 2016 was the company’s highest ever, standing at 10% of turnover and representing a 180% increase over 2015. The strong financial performance in 2016 was underpinned by record sales, with a total of 3,286 cars purchased; this was a 99% increase over 2015 and exceeded the company’s own expectations by almost 10%, with all geographic regions achieving sales growth.”

        2. Nah. Sauber replaced by Alfa Romeo. McLaren replaced by a stubbourn Honda group and 4 Red Bulls replaced by 2 chancer teams hopefully Play Boy sponsored with good deals from American friends at Liberty Media with associated Play Boy inspired grid girls sprawled over the car at every opportunity.

          1. 65.8 million off an investment of over 1 billion. Will take a while. Also that is fudging figures like mass manufacturers by dealers pre registering or buying the cars. It is not sustainable. McLaren toadcars like the F1 team are not going anywhere and I think the owners will cash in on them whilst they can.

      2. Mclaren has no chance to take sabbaticals from F1. No team has. If you don’t race you lose your f1 entry which is worth (tens?) of millions of € (iirc lotus, manor and hrt paid somewhere 8-40 million € for their spot). Taking a sabbatical basically means you give away your spot which is worth a lot and then you need to pay that again a year later (while probably losing all your benefits as a big team in the sport). That is if fia even let you come back. Entry to f1 is not something you just decide to do although it would make no sense to leave a team like mclaren out.

        Mclaren sure could ask fia to let them take sabbatical but why on earth would fia allow it? It would create a dangerous precedent when money strapped teams would come to fia asking for sabbaticals every now and then. Just imagine it being a yearly occurance to have one of the backmarkers quitting for a year and the main topic each year is whether this or that team can afford to come back or not. Not knowing how many cars you are going to have on the grid before the season starts… Missing races is not acceptable even at national level racing. To allow it in the highest level of motorsport would make f1 look like a joke.

        Mclaren going away for a year would be bad for fia’s and f1’s public image. It would be seen as failure to make the engine rules work. Honda’s demise would make every possible engine manufacturer rethink before even thinking about getting into f1. It would make f1 look bad because you could see an 18 car grid without alonso and vandoorne. And how do you deal with an f1 team that is coming back just after one year? What kind of testing are they allowed to do for example? What about wind tunnel runs? F1 teams already have limitations there as well.

        A team simply cannot take sabbaticals from f1. It just doesn’t happen and never has. It is too problematic from economic, technical and rules perspectives. If your money runs out you go bankcrupt. If your engine sucks you fix it or quit. Or you just wait and hope it gets better some year.

        1. So you are saying that F1 would be happy with a sixteen car grid?

          Not to many lining up to take the available spots. How many racing teams progress from running F3 and or F2 teams to running a F1 team? Any?

          I see similarities with DTM where, with Mercedes gone, two manufacturers are going to have to field at least 10 cars each to make a reasonable grid.

          Simply not feasible.

          Same in F1, there is no way Ferrari, Mercedes or Hass will run 4 car teams like Red Bull are trying to do.

          In IndyCars, NASCAR and the NHRA, there are plenty of four car teams but sponsorship rules would need to be loosened in F1 to enable four car teams with each car being sponsored by a different entity. Current F1 rules don’t allow that.

  15. I have a bad feeling that either of Sauber or Honda will not be on the grid next year.

    1. Unless Honda buys Toro Rosso, as Red Bull awaits to Honda get his act together, and then switch to them, pulling a move on McLaren as McLaren has done against williams in the late 80’s: let someone else suffer and then you get the benefits. Also, if Sauber gets a current season PU from Ferrari, they can have a discount for give Leclerc a seat, and could badge the PU Alfa Romeo…

  16. Well no team in this day and age can afford a 2s defecit from one component.

    Honda should pull out and feturn if and when ready.

    1. What’s sad is that they are still committed to F1. After all the embarrassment they’ve endured in these 3 years, you would expect them to just pack up and leave.

      McLaren tried it’s level best to get rid of Honda despite being paid a $100 mln annually. Sauber, which is the worst performing and most cash strapped team on the grid actually rejected a potentially lucrative offer by Honda. McLaren Honda’s own star driver has publicly mocked them.

      Honda really needs to take a hint… and just announce another retirement from the sport.

  17. The problem here is that Honda are relying on former glory and dismissing the fact that the world caught up with them. I’m sick of hearing “wait until Honda figures it out” because their current attitude never will. Their last foray in f1 was a complete disaster and this time around is even worse. They only win in motogp because of superhuman riding by Marquez and everywhere else is nothing but failure. Until they wake up and realize their traditional ways of doing things no longer cut it, they will be the joke of the f1 paddock.

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