Jean Todt, Circuit of the Americas, 2016

Todt unmoved by calls for louder engines

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In the round-up: FIA president Jean Todt is unmoved by claims Formula One engines should make more noise.

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What do younger fans make of Formula E?

I watched the race with my 15 year old cousin last night and the first thing he said was that the cars sounded awesome. I wasn’t sure if he was joking, but he confirmed he was serious when he said he also said the cars look better than F1.

I thought this was interesting, as he is perfectly in the target demo of “young new fan” and “first brand new car will be electric”, so they must be doing something right.

Myself, along with most – I presume – seasoned petrol heads, am not a big fan of the engine sound, tyre squeal, electronic music, comedic starts, looks, or Fanboost. At least they have some decent drivers.

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  • 88 comments on “Todt unmoved by calls for louder engines”

    1. Jean, Formula One is not going to save the world, nor should it be trying. What a sycophant…

      1. Agree.

        Liberty Media need to get control of the sport from the chardonnay socialists running the FIA.

      2. @ambroserpm
        Nobody is suggesting F1 can save the world, they’re just pointing out that F1 doesn’t exist in isolation from the automotive industry, or the world, and that it has its own part to play in our attempts to reduce pollution and mitigate the damage that we’re causing to the environment.
        F1 has been a leader in this respect for decades, it was one of the first global organisations to sign up to the carbon neutral scheme in the 90s, and helped to promote it by encouraging all of the sponsors and affiliates to sign up to it too.

      3. No, but it might just save our hearing….

      4. @ambroserpm I was skeptical when the hybrid formula was announced, it took me sometime to accept the change and now I can say I like it. I’ve been to one race since they’ve made the change and the sound difference is undeniable. The naturally aspirated V8s were more exciting but those V6 hybrids were not “the worst thing ever”.

        However, people demanding louder engines should get ready for a way more shocking change being cooked: electric engines in Formula 1. I’m afraid it will come in less than 30 years because European nations (and constructors) are moving fast in that direction issuing laws outlawing gas and diesel engines in 30/35 years. When this day come – if I’m alive and with the same views I hold today – it will be tough on me.

      5. I agree with him. The sound an engine makes might make going to the racetrack more impressive, but most of us watch races via TV or over the internet, where sound levels have been filtered, attenuated, and compressed to meet the requirements of that medium. How can you make something louder when you’re already at the limit that medium allows? You can’t!
        You can’t guarantee all the people that work at the track are issued with adequate hearing protection, nor that the visitors have brought or have available to them adequate hearing protection, so quieter cars are safer.
        Paywall is a far more important issue, but it gets far less attention than the sound of the cars.

    2. Mark in Florida
      31st July 2017, 1:17

      Jean Todt the new Bernie, same amount of hearing loss when it comes to listening to the fans. Leave the electric powered racing to Formula E, they can develop it the most eventually. Formula one should be about the experience at the track alright. The sound of a v8 or v10 engines shaking the ground as it roars past. I guess that’s why I am going to more vintage racing events lately. They don’t make race cars like they used to, so I watch the cars they used to make.

      1. @Mark in Florida

        I totally agree with you. These days I go to Goodwood FOS, Silverstone classic, Ferrari weekend at Silverstone, and anywhere else I can get to experience a racing car that is a whack in the face, viscerally. We have Formula E for the electric research and quite how F1 found itself in this situation, I don’t know. They need to get back to lightweight, shocking cars, and fast, before the audience dwindles away altogether…

        1. Watch Monster Trucks?

      2. You’re right, they don’t make race cars like they used to. They make them faster and better than they used to, which is why we’re seeing lap records broken this year. The sound is just wasted energy.

        1. @david-a

          EVERYTHING, when it comes to this, is wasted energy… Putting on a race. Flying to the race. Walking from the car to the circuit. You, typing your comment. Me, typing my comment.

          Do you want driverless, electric cars? That is where we will go, and soon, if we take your route.

          Cannot we accept that F1 has to be, to some extent, entertainment?

          1. @paulguitar
            Of course I can accept that F1 has to be entertainment. In my opinion, the entertainment comes much more from the speed of the cars (higher han ever) the skill to drive them (very high), and the quality of the overtaking and defending between them (obviously debatable, but will always be better than a driverless car).

            A louder engine isn’t necessarily a faster engine. Nor does one make a car harder to drive, nor will a loud engine give you better racing between drivers.

            1. We can have both, surely? Viscerally mind-blowing cars, AND great racing.

            2. @david-a

              Come on! The louder engine is WAAYYYYY more exciting. It’s an instant effect that we ALL remember from our first walk to the track.

            3. @s2g-unit I remember it from my first approach (Circuit de Catalunya), it was amazing. Then when I got inside I discovered that it was very rare to see a spectator not were wearing ear defenders or ear plugs (or both) as soon as the cars were running and I soon followed suit (although it was always nice to take off ear protection for small periods to enjoy the effect, particularly at the start).

              The reality is the engine noise is really a red herring and loads of F1 fans have just jumped on the bandwagon. The reality is that the current sound is both more interesting AND can actually be listened to. I appreciate that a small minority would watch without ear protection and will rue the change but their voice is only loud because it was a political card Bernie decided to use giving it more credibility than it really deserved.

        2. Lap time in F1 is almost all about downforce. The more downforce you add the faster you go regardless of what kind of motor you have (V10, V16, hybrid 0.6 liter 2 cylinder turbo engine or 10 times as many electric motors and batteries as you can carry). The reason why the lap records are broken now is because we have a lot of downforce. Adding downforce to anything makes it faster. A 2016 car had so little downforce they basically ran maximum downforce everywhere. Now they have the option of running more or less.

          Make no mistake about it though. An f1 car of today with just the engine replaced from a 2005 car would drive rings around the lawnmower powered eco jokes we have on track today. The total weight of the electric and turbo engine and battery is already higher than what a v10 engine + fuel would be needed to run a full race. Without refuelling. Only difference is that a v10 engined car would do it faster and sound like an f1 car.

          The eco joke part is very true. It is all about the image. I’d be willing to bet my genitals that the amount of energy it takes to manufacture the engine+battery+electric motor and all the other electric gizmes it takes to put that together is far more than what it would take to build a v10 engine. Sure the v10 would eat more fuel but at least it would not use batteries, heavy metals and eco-disaster class manufacturing methods which are far more harmful to the environment.

          If f1 wanted to be green and really be honest green then it would use its resources to actually try limiting its carbon/nature footprint. Try to make people come to the races riding their bikes, favour mass transport, don’t fly jets, put more focus on eco friendly fuels and use them on the trucks and airplanes that move the cars around the world. Build the roads from eco friendly materials and make sure every thing is recyclable that is sold during gp weekend. Do all that and put a nice sounding V12 engine into the cars and let’s have the best of both worlds and not just fake image of greenness built on top of misinformation and fake eco friendliness.

          1. @socksolid, no, I am afraid that you are suffering from a false memory syndrome and are therefore wrong on many counts about the performances of the old V10 engines.

            The current minimum weight of the current power units is 145kg, and BMW’s 2005 spec engine was 86kg – there is no way that the V10’s could even remotely hope to complete the race on 59kg of fuel. In fact, to complete a race distance, that V10 would require about 190kg of fuel – so the combined weight of the V10 and the fuel that it would need to complete a race distance would be nearly 280kg, which is not only nearly twice that of the power unit itself, it is more than the current power unit plus an entire load of fuel.

            1. Not to mention that the whole car would be quite a bit heavier (since the large fuel tank needs room) Anon.

              And it also ignores that part of the reason why the current engines have a minimum weight of 145 kg is not because they need to be that heave, but because the FIA and the manufacturers agreed to limit use of expensive exotic materials and stop a race to build ever lighter engines. So that the V10 engine would most likely have to be heavier than the 86 kg it then had anyway.

            2. The math is easy:

              V10: engine weight 86kg. No batteries, electric motors. Fuel needed for full race 190kg. Total weight using your numbers: 276kg

              V6 hybrid. Engine weight 145kg. Battery 35kg (which you conveniently left out…), more radiators 20kg, fuel 105 liters or 76kg (59kg??? Fuel is 0.72kg/liter). Total: 276kg.

              Which is the same (about). However the v10 car will spend 190kg of fuel (again using your own high numbers) during the race meaning at the s/f line the v10 is 190kg lighter than when it started whereas the hybrid will weigh just 76kg less. Meaning that the v10 is massively lighter for majority of the race.

              Follow your own math. The numbers are simple and the results are obvious.

        3. Mark in Florida
          31st July 2017, 16:56

          David-A , My problem with the F1 cars are that they seem so sterile compared to the old cars. They lack soul in my opinion. If F1 wants to be so green and save the world close the series down. But I want to see fast cars that sound great.

      3. If want ground shaking, go see Top Fuel dragsters.

        1. Evil Homer (@)
          2nd August 2017, 12:01

          @Mark in Florida
          No Todt is not the new Bernie, he is actually his apprentice, everyone gets one- The Emperor got Darth Vader after all LOL.

    3. It’s a measure of the level of sportsmanship and ethics in F1 that Will Buxton hailed Hamilton for the “incredibly noble act” of doing what he was supposed to do by giving the position back, and that so many others are astonished he did the right thing. Contrast that with golf, where players are expected to call penalties on themselves if the ball wobbles a bit as they address it even though they gain no advantage whatsoever.

      1. Bottas should be praised for allowing Hamilton the chance. Hamilton had to let him back past nothing special there. If I help an old lady across the road the old lady should not be praised or people in burning buildings are praised and notvthe firefighter rescuing them. Lewis was a charity case today Bottas was a true gentleman and only 19 points off Hamilton. Ferrari have not given team orders all year Merc gave given a few but they spin a story of they are the fair team….

      2. @Chip Hilton

        Well, you might be right there, F1 is usually pretty cut throat, even by the standards of top flight sport, and I think that is why what Lewis did has been surprising to many people. He was very far ahead and clearly able to run at a different pace to Valteri, and that is why, I think, it was somewhat surprising he still adhered to the switch.

        I think it displays the level or respect between the Mercedes teammates, and that is something I am really appreciating this season. I have my doubts that Lewis would have done this for Nico Rosberg, on the basis that he knew from experience (most notably Nico’s Monaco quali ‘error’) he could not trust him to play fair. I think he fully trusts Bottas and as a result we are seeing a really good clean fight with the two of them this year.

        1. I sure hope it stays that way.

          1. Yes, I hope so too. Past experience shows us these things often fall apart. I might be proved wrong, but I think there is a really genuine respect between Lewis and Valteri.

      3. Hardly the only contrast with golf, though – a sport not exactly renowned for its adrenaline pumping excitement.

      4. where players are expected to call penalties on themselves if the ball wobbles a bit as they address it even though they gain no advantage whatsoever

        See, I think that’s silly. Expecting to players to declare when they’re broken a rule is just begging to be deceived.

        It’s up to the players to play the game and it’s up to the referees to referee the game.

        1. Yes, but is it up to the players to take every illegal or unfair advantage they can get away with? Do you enjoy it in football when a player tugs an opponent’s jersey and doesn’t get caught? Does it lower your opinion of him? It does for me. If you have to cheat to win, your victory is tainted. Otherwise, why are people talking years later about Crashgate?

    4. How old is Jean. Any chance he may not be with us by the time a decision on engines needs to be made?

      Can someone run him over in a really loud V12 supercar.

      F1 needs V12 engines that rev to 25,000 rpm, and no engine restrictions use as many as you want. Each current car has 8 or more engines a year they ship round (if they use 5 or more they get stupid penalties). A v12 would cost a quarter of current units so for the same cost 32 engines a year per car.

    5. I guess, as with Formula E, green technologies in F1 are a marketing thing… it’s like companies cannot afford not to be seen trying to fix the world. As if being “green” was just “avoiding to use petrol”. Being environmentally concious is also about using the least amount of resources for a specific objective and considering how expensive these power units are, I’m not sure that’s what they are doing. Yes they are using less fuel, but they are expending all the saved energy into building, designing, researching and developing these PUs.

      If FIA wants to make our sport a marketing excercise, then I guess “green technologies” are here to stay… Just don’t mention the amount of CO2 produced by the enormous F1 related shipments moving around the world to more and more destinations during a whole year, which heavily surpasses ENORMOUSLY what’s produced during the actual races. Remember, our dear President Mr Todt himself admitted a single flight overseas produces more pollution than a whole F1 race.

      But I guess as long as F1 turns itself “green”, the polar ice caps will stay icy, the tasmanian rainforest won’t become a desert, and the people who starve of oxygen will have healthy air to breathe. Hurray!

      1. Just don’t mention the amount of CO2 produced by the enormous F1 related shipments moving around the world to more and more destinations during a whole year, which heavily surpasses ENORMOUSLY what’s produced during the actual races. Remember, our dear President Mr Todt himself admitted a single flight overseas produces more pollution than a whole F1 race.

        This part of Grand Prix racing has actually been CO2-neutral since the late 1990’s.

        And let’s face it, the scepticism you display is the reason why F1 needs to be on the forefront of environmental technologies. If there is already so much reluctance to accept a different kind of energy container in a car, then what will be the reaction if something fundamental has to be done. You are not going to believe the politicians, so your heroes have to pave the way.

    6. Why must motor racing be relevant to the real world? Why should motorsport be held to such an impossible standard? No one expects cricket or football or tennis to be relevant to the real world, the sport itself is their reason for existence. Motor racing is about entertaiment, competition and the thrill of racing a vehicle to the limits of its capabilities. Any technologies for wider society that emerge as a consequence of racing are merely incidental.

      The greatest threat to motor racing isn’t the internal combustion engine becoming obsolete, though that is a threat. The greatest threat is people like Jean Todt treating its primary purpose as real world relevance rather than sporting competition and entertaining fans. With a car industry moving towards driverless cars and electric motors the interests of manufacturers and those of motorsport are becoming increasingly divergent. If motor racing is to survive in such an enviromnent it clearly and explicitly needs to prioritise sporting spectacle over real world relevance as attempts to gain manufacturer approval will become increasingly futile.

      1. I guess one way of looking at all this is that horse racing has gone from strength to strength….but I guess we can thank the punters for that.

        1. Pretty much yeah.

      2. Sadly I don’t think anyone truly expects motor racing to be relevant to real world. But it seems lots of people want that it looks like that even if it is not in reality. The journos are more than happy to endless spew marketing infomercial double speak about how efficient the engines are and how they are so eco friendly because so little fuel is used. Comfortably forgetting that manufacturing the batteries and electronics is literally one of the worst cancers you can cause on mother earth. How the batteries are literally packets of death mined by children in africa and built using procedures that create toxics inhaled by millions of people. Or to even totally ignore how miniscule the f1 car exhaust gas effect on nature is when compared to the pollution the trucks, jets and passenger cars cause when people and cargo is moved around the world to keep the f1 circus going on.

        In that fakeness I think formula e is the perfect demonstration of that fakeness. Cars that can not even finish a short race so you build two of them and switch full cars in the middle of the race. Double the already high eco-hate. And make sure the journos keep mentioning no fuel is burned when probably all of the energy that goes into the batteries comes from coal. That is so eco-unfriendly that if people started to follow that principle we would run out of everything before even half of us got our “second car”.

        The economics do make sense though. Formula e gets a lot of publicity for its low cost which is the only reason manufacturers are interested. You have good known drivers, you get lots of free social media visibility in every race, the racing is dirt cheap as you can not do anything to the cars and the tracks don’t cost much to make. And formula e would never even run on normal race track because it would show how utterly slow the cars are. So most people don’t even notice it. Any entry level single seater would totally destroy the cars in performance.

        In reality if formula e had not attracted big name ex-f1 drivers on its first season it would be already dead. Everybody knew the cars are uninteresting but if you have the drivers part in order then the rest doesn’t matter. Alonso’s indycar race really proved how important the personalities are. Simply looking at the formula e grid from 2014 there were more known names that 99% of all race series around the world have. Only topped by lemans p1, f1, indycar and nascar. Prost, Senna, Servia, Buemi, Algersuari, Trulli, Liuzzi, Heidfeld, Andretti, Brabham, Sato, Piquet… It is those names that made formula e popular. Not that cars.

        1. “The economics do make sense though. Formula e gets a lot of publicity for its low cost which is the only reason manufacturers are interested”

          Agree 100%. Thats the main reason. Once the it turns into an arms race, the manufacturers will change their tune.

          If we think for one minute that manufacturers care about the environment, well think again. Its a numbers game, as pure and simple as they come. Manufacturers are faceless publicly traded organisations that will invest based on projected returns. Mercedes, Toyota and VAG dont spend hundreds of millions of dollars on racing annually for the fun of it.

          1. @jaymenon10 It is not a crime for a manufacturer, a company, to try to maximize profits. I’m not looking to debate which companies are more genuinely concerned about the environment and which aren’t, and to what degree in between the two a company sits. But I will say that the people are the bosses in this. As usual. The marketplace. If people stop buying products from greedy companies that have no environmental conscious, those companies will either have to adapt or disappear. But I think you are making a blanket statement implying that manufacturers are selfish and only care about the bottom line, and I highly doubt that is true, and we the people certainly can affect that when it is true of a company.

            And I think manufacturers do go racing for the fun of it, and to promote their brands at he same time. It’s the way it has always been. Racing wouldn’t exist if their weren’t some sort of financial payback for the money invested. The love of it would only last as long as the budget lasts.

      3. Because if you want to attract manufacturers, you have to sell a selling point and environmental consciousness, whether genuine or not, is a major selling point.

    7. @ads21

      I agree 100%. I think F1 needs to decide what it is. We only need one Formula E, and we already have it.

      1. I think F1 has decided what it is, and that is a hybrid of ICE and electric, using batteries and energy recovery systems, and that is relevant to the young audience that Liberty will need in order to grow the sport. Not that Liberty started the hybrid era in F1. That had already begun.

        The talk so far seems to be that the next format in F1 may have less complex and more affordable pu’s but it sure sounds like they will still have a hybrid component. And that is simply today’s reality. Electric cars are still not where they need to be and there is debate about the manufacture and disposal of batteries too, but there is much to be excited about that is on the drawing board yet. But I personally think it will be a number of years yet that we will have ICE’s supporting motors and batteries in cars, getting more and more powerful and efficient as time and research go on.

        Anyway, this all doesn’t sit well with you because you’re not hearing the scream anymore…a scream that wasn’t even always there. A scream that the young audience that Liberty needs haven’t had the chance to miss, while they go car shopping with Mom and Dad and see hybrids throughout the showroom.

        1. @robbbie. The most reasoned and sensible argument I have seen on this thread re the subject. I don’t think there is any possibility of F1 going back to V10s, V12s. They will continue as some form of hybrid as long as this is realistic.

          I don’t want the cars to be any more quiet but I quite like the sound of the tyres screeching which you never heard before.

        2. @robbie

          Where do you come up with the crap “hybrid of ICE and electric, using batteries and energy recovery systems, and that is relevant to the young audience”. I’m 33 & none of my younger cousin care at all about hybrid. They still love the same cars we all love. Loud, sexy cars. Especially Japanese cars like my NSX, or a Supra, Rx-7.

          They still go to dragstrips to see fast & loud cars. The whole millenials or young audience wants green cars. Is such complete nonsense that is being spewed.

          1. @s2g-unit The new NSX which I absolutely love is a hybrid car. 3 electric motors in it. 33 year olds may already have their minds made up, at least in your tiny sample size of you and your cousins, but the reality is that the kids of today are only seeing hybrids everywhere, and talk of electric cars getting better and better. That’s just the reality. And the reality is the ICE is still going to be playing a big role for some time to come yet too. Any kids these days coming to the age of noticing cool cars, especially supercars, as they yearn to get old enough to get their license, are seeing hybrids. So it will only make sense for them as they get into F1, to see that they are hybrids too. And I don’t see what is wrong with cars more powerful than ever, also being more efficient than ever.

            1. @robbie

              Kids don’t want to own hybrid cars! They want the 90’s supercars not to buy an Insight or whatever ( I don’t know) other hybrid is out there.

              I don’t know hwere people get the idea that young boys don’t like the things we have all liked for 50 years. Loud engines &/or big engines, fast cars. Just because they grow up with an iPad in their hand does NOT mean they want a super high tech car.

            2. @s2g-unit Whatever. Like I have implied, hybrids are here and are no longer Insights, and when cars like the new NSX have 3 motors in them I think it is only inevitable that as time goes along more and more the youth of today are only going to find hybrids more and more normal…especially as they blow normally aspirated cars off the line. Of course there is always going to be an interest in previous Classic muscle cars and supercars, but that’s not everybody, in spite of what you are trying to claim.

            3. @s2g-unit @robbie Yeah this seems ridiculous. From the top of my head, here are some auto manufacturers who are currently selling hybrid or fully electric sports and a super cars:


              And that’s just looking at those making sports or supercars, not counting the many many electric and hybrid options out there for ‘normal’ cars.

              You may not like them, but it would be madness to think that the electrification of the motor car is some kind of a fad or a niche interest for the green brigade. Of those above, several have basically pulled out of top flight motorsport powered by conventional ICE and hybrid power in favour of racing in Formula E. Basically, fossil fueled cars are dead. You have countries across the globe stating that they will be, within the next few decades, banning the sale of fossil fuel powered vehicles. Even, it should be said, hybrids are not really the future, and that’s why manufacturers are turning their backs on F1 and LMP1 in WEC. Hybrid is a stopgap – it’s not the future. The future is all electric. But no matter what, there will always be people making cool, fast, sexy cars. They may not make a load of noise, but they’ll be faster, more powereful, cleaner, and more high-tech than ever before. Kids will still put pictures on their walls of these cars, as they do currently with the likes of the P1 or the LaFerrari.

              Best to just accept that for all the technology, even the current cars in F1 will one day be seen as dinosaurs – extinct.

    8. Duncan Snowden
      31st July 2017, 2:44

      “playing to packed stands”

      … apart from the one covered by a tarp.

    9. John Todt can’t hear the fans or the engines because he wears ear plugs to drown out the noise. In fact, he sleeps with them as well, but that’s to keep his brain from draining out when he rolls over during the night.

    10. When was the last time Todt listened to anyone.

      1. Todt needs to go, we surely don’t understand F1 and the importance of sound anymore….

    11. Roth Man (@rdotquestionmark)
      31st July 2017, 7:49

      I can’t think of any other sport that tells the fans what they want instead of listening to them.

      1. @rdotquestionmark Why a SPORT need to listens to the fans? If the fans something that caters to what they demand, they should seek ENTERTAINMENT instead. If you talking about the F1 broadcast then it’s fine to critique or make demands because that’s the entertainment aspect, but leave the sport part of F1 to the sport regulator please.

    12. Thanks for the picture in the Fritz-Dieter Rencken tweet. I thought the There-can-only-be-one picture was CGI!

    13. Nice one JB. Brundle’s comment that ‘that’s why the top teams don’t take him’ was completely unwarranted. JB tehen replies to this statement and Brundle replies insinuating something different.

      Ever since he went to Sky, Brundle has gone down in my estimation. Well anyone that works for Sky to be honest… although maybe not Marc Priestley!

      1. It sure was a good one @john-h, I was glad a popular driver like Button reacted as he did, because otherwise far more people would have jumped on Brundles bandwagon there.

        1. Yeah I like MB but this was strange. He must still be ill. On the one hand he throws out ‘reminds team bosses why they don’t want him’ which I completely don’t believe and don’t get, and then in defending against JB’s comment he claims FA ‘deserves to be up there fighting for champs.’

          Which is it? If he is not wanted why does he deserve to be up there?

    14. One thing that struck me with the FE/young crowd is how the cars are measured on battery life, something all kids can easily refer to in this day and age with mobile phones and tablets. It’s literally talking in their language.

      I’m also really concerned for the future of F1. I think they need a radical change (completely the opposite of what Jean Todt is suggesting) and to go for something a bit noisy. I know the key risk is that manufacturers might leave, but perhaps it’s all about F1’s branding and marketing as to how they combat this. F1 shouldn’t out Formula E, Formula E.

    15. I don’t think it really matters what Todt wants. Drivers, teams, management and fans all want louder engines. It’s for the spectacle. F1 needs a draw card and having spent the most money on the best technology doesn’t really cut it when it’s all behind the scenes.

    16. I fear all the talk about ‘louder engines’ is pointless as there’s far more significant things to deal with, cost being one of them. If we can’t get over this noise addiction, then at least keep them quiet enough to hear tyre squeal, driver radio and the occasional crunch of carbon fibre.

      1. Agreed. Cost control and front wing (less aero) simplicity should be the priority

    17. Hulkenburg represents all that’s wrong with the F1 driver market – a mediocre talent who will never win an F1 race, yet considered a safe choice due to his experience so keeps getting hired in the place of far better, younger drivers.
      I’d love to see him, and a few other current drivers shipped out to make way so the next generation can get their chance.

      1. This is a very harsh opinion.
        Hulkenberg had a decent junior career before racing for Williams in 2010. Mind you, Williams, running a Cosworth engine was not really a top car in the field. Yet Hulkenberg scored in 7/19 races (if I remember correctly). In 2014, he scored on 15 occasions (of 19 GPs) with the hybrid cars. He has never got a front running car in 7 years of racing in F1 with three teams. So, it would be unwise to conclude he lacks the skill and talent to win a F1 race.
        If we take into consideration the eye-catching performances that Bottas has delivered in his first year with a top team in a top performing car, it is highly possible that Hulkenberg could also deliver if he had a top team/car.
        There are some drivers like Hamilton, Vettel and Alonso who have the natural ability to bring down lap times. But they are only few in number.
        Having said that, there are certainly some drivers such as Palmer, Kvyat, Ericsson who should make way for fresh talent.

        1. @pinakghosh As a counter argument to yours, Hulkenberg never achieved that getting podium with undeserved car like what Bottas and Perez did. I even add arguably his Force India Mercedes in Hybrid era is better than Williams Mercedes and 3 of 4 of their drivers produces 15 podiums finishes in 2014-2016 combined and Hulk contributes 0.

          There are cases when a good driver in junior series just cant make it in F1 and I believe Hulk is one of them. I’d rather see him go to let new talent in F1 rather than Palmer, Kvyat, or Ericsson (though they have very limited time left to prove their worth).

        2. @bascbpinakghosh @bascb
          In 3 races he will become the driver with the most starts without a podium, that is exceptional, exceptionally bad !
          I literally can’t think of a single great performance from his F1 career, and have never understood why some fans rate him so highly when he consistantly fails to deliver.

          1. Tags got a bit mixed up there @pinakghosh

      2. I actually think he is an exceptional talent, be it somewhat rusty from lack of real challenge at the top end. I actually think his biggest issue is how tall he is – that alone means that Ferrari and Mercedes have been less interested in him, since they don’t want to make a large car for him to fit in.

      3. Interesting you picked the guy whose team mate is a second per lap slower than him.

      4. Well, not sure whether Hulk is the best example here, but yeah there are lots of guys keeping young talent away while they clearly have reached the end of their own development. JB was a good example. Current ones include in my personal subjective opinion Massa, Kvyat, Raikkonen, Palmer, Magnussen, Ericsson. And then there are the Webberesk drivers that Ferrari can hire to play second fiddle for ever behind a number one driver (Like Rubens, Massa, Irvine) Sainz, Perez, Hulkenberg, Grosjean and maaayyybe Bottas.

    18. I have a friend who now has to live the rest of his life with damage to his hearing because in our daring youth we went to music concerts where the music was way too loud. In our younger days, the fact that this music was so loud that you could feel it reverberate through your body, that was an integral part of “the experience”. Looking back, though, I don’t think our love for this loudness made us music lovers. After all, if you can’t appreciate the music without it being loud, then you probably don’t really appreciate the music in itself, because loudness will inevitably drown out a lot of the finer details of what is essentially an auditory art form.
      I have a similar opinion about the sound of F1 engines. When I started watching F1 (early 80s), you could hear many noises coming from an F1 car besides the revs of engine and I loved that. Then, as the revs rose, the sound got progressively louder and high-pitched, until it drowned out most of the other car noises. Admittedly, this sound was very impressive and – just like the concerts of my youth – the vibes blasted through my body. I was a Ferrari fan, so I have fond memories of the V12 screeching past around Spa (I am Belgian). But this appreciation of the sound never became a defining ingredient of my love of F1. I had heard the sound of F1 evolve, so I knew this high-pitched noise was merely a part of an evolution. And even then I already rued the loss of the other noises. So I welcomed the reduction in the sound level a few years back. Once again, the little noises have come to the fore. And the difference between the sounds of the various engines is also most intriguing.
      P.S. And once and for all, to anyone complaining that these cars aren’t loud enough: please stop saying F1 isn’t listening to “the fans” when you are expressing your own personal opinion. I consider myself one of “the fans” of F1 and in this case you certainly don’t speak for me.

      1. Good points.

      2. Agreed. Well said.

    19. Hamilton ought to stop while he’s ahead…yesterday he was a man of his word, today he’s ruled by a heart that’s just too big and cuddly for his own good apparently.

      1. @maciek And yet, his word and his heart is in agreement with one another in this case. So what’s your point?

        1. @sonicslv I guess just that if you say you do something because it’s right then leave it at that… and I felt like having a dig at him I guess because people who live their celebrity identity a bit intensely tend to fall back on telling everyone what good people they are and I find that cheesy and so I mentioned it.

          1. @maciek I don’t know the exact situation, but I can imagine he (and other celebrities) must be always asked about same thing over and over again and just one choice of less than ideal answer that will written to the articles by the journalist. Unless someone always bring back same example over and over again to tell how good people they are, I’m willing to give them the benefit of doubt.

            Anyway, I probably overreacted to your comment. So, sorry about that.

    20. So, based on the COTD, I thought I’ll watch the two New York Formula E races as I had some spare time. I have previously not watched any other series seriously (other than F1, where I watched virtually all races since 2009).

      – Big plus: The races were available on YouTube for free. The Montreal races of this weekend weren’t available yet, so I assume they have an agreement with the broadcasters to only put the races online a little later. (Although they seem to be live streams as well, so not sure why the videos are not available directly after the race.)

      – The sound of FE is ok and sounds interesting, but I wouldn’t agree with the 15-year-old cousin of the COTD writer that it is better than F1. I still much prefer the V8 engine noise, but I think the V6 are still much better than FE. What is interesting in FE that you can hear the tyres much more and you can hear the carbon fibre breaking when cars touch.

      – The changing of the car is silly, but given current technology it probably makes sense. I didn’t know about the minimum pit stop time beforehand, so in the end, I didn’t mind, and my fear that races are decided by the most athletic driver being able to move from one car to the other in the quickest possible way, was unfounded.

      – Fan Boost sucks. They should get rid of it. I get what they were trying to do (get some fan engagement) but this is the wrong way. At least it didn’t seem that powerful in the races I watched.

      – I really liked that we can hear have a lot of pit communications. Although quite a lot of it were just numbers that didn’t make much sense to me.

      – Communication directly from the race director to the drivers seems to be a sensible thing. He sounded like a nice guy.

      – Racing was good and close. Driving standards could be slightly better as there seemed to be a lot of touching in the hairpin, but maybe the track was just a little bit too tight there.

      – It was still obvious that the cars were much slower than F1 cars.

      Overall, I found it interesting and entertaining. I probably won’t watch every race as I don’t have the time for this, but if I have some time, I will definitely watch again.

      1. @mike-dee

        The races were available on YouTube for free.

        Depends where you live, There Geo-Blocked in a lot of country’s due to the contracts/agreements they have with broadcasters.

        In the UK for example usually the live streams of the races are blocked as are the full race re-runs with only the extended race highlights ‘sometimes’ been made available at some point later. There are a few cases where they do make the live streams & full race re-runs available in the UK (I think only when we don’t have any live coverage on TV) but most of the time they don’t.

    21. Is Steiner on drugs?!

    22. WilliamB (@william-brierty)
      31st July 2017, 13:18

      Whilst this is nothing new, Todt’s unique talent for looking out of his depth continues to astound.

      As I speak two major FIA series are on the cusp of a terminal crisis: the WEC and the WTCC. In both cases the FIA were desperate to heed the wishes of the manufacturers, only to be surprised when that same manufacturer dominates and surprised even further when said manufacturer has enjoyed its championship victory laps, and withdraws. The FIA’s policy of relentlessly pursuing road relevance has failed, has left them ironically dependent on privateer outfits and Jean Todt should be held fully accountable. He is the most destructive force in world motorsport.

    23. Still don’t give a damn about the sound/volume of the engines, It’s just not that important to me. Never has been & never will be.

      And likewise I don’t get why so many seem to see efficiency as a bad word. These current power units are producing V10 levels of performance while using half the fuel & despite been almost half the size & I see that as a positive rather than a negative.

      Going back to louder engines just for the sake of them been loud just seems dumb to me as does the obsession about it from many fans. Who cares how loud they are so long as there fast & the racing is good.

      1. @stefmeister

        I don’t think anyone is against efficiency as such, and in fact F1 teams have always been necessarily concerned about it or they would be hopelessly uncompetitive. Weight is a terrible penalty in racing. always has been.

        The hybrid cars we have now are ridiculously heavy. I remember when F1 cars were 515KG! I suspect we could build non-hybrid cars now in 2017 that would be everything the old N/A cars were in terms of spectacle and use less fuel than the current heavyweights.

        Most of the folks who miss the sound I think are those who attend the races live. It does not matter much on TV. Since my one live race in 2014, I just watch on TV now. That has been the one positive of the weedy sounding engines, I save A LOT of money!

    24. @keithcollantine is there a place where we might suggest articles for the next round up?
      BILD is reporting that Wehrlein might be out of a F1 seat next season.
      That would be a real shame in my book.

      1. I thought he might be in line for Perez’s job at Force India.

        1. BILD reports the team doesn’t really want him there.

    25. Lewis you took an honourable stance, don’t ruin it. Guess Martin didn’t understood what JB meant by that comment. The top 3 team bosses have dismissed Alonso, and that’s surely not based on his speed.

      1. Have they?

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