Ferrari have given away fewer points than us – Hamilton

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In the round-up: Lewis Hamilton admits Mercedes have thrown points away in the first half of 2017.

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44 comments on “Ferrari have given away fewer points than us – Hamilton”

  1. I don’t really see why Mercedes would want anyone other than Bottas next year. His performance has been a little below par some races, but he’s been a perfect team player and picked up wins when Hamilton was off the boil. What more do you need in a number two? If they get someone better (essentially Vettel or Alonso?) it’s only likely to increase the stress levels in the team.

    1. Some drivers just don’t like having team mates that beat them. Vettel and Alonso are definitely two of them, but even weaker drivers are like that (Barrichello and Fisichella come to mind, as much as I liked as drivers and people). Hamilton kind of rides the line, to be honest, but I think anybody that is better than Bottas will pose too much of a threat to Hamilton’s superiority inside the team for to… well, behave, really. Bottas might as well end up beating Hamilton, who knows, much like Button did over the course of their three years together at McLaren. But there’s too much history with, and too much personality from Alonso and Vettel’s side for things to go well together with Hamilton.

      Honestly, either Ricciardo or Verstappen would be great substitutes for Bottas, but then again, I’m not sure they’re faster than Bottas. Bottas is very consistent, very professional, and he beat Massa three years in a row at Williams. That’s no mean feat for someone with only one previous year of experience in F1 (when he went up against Maldonado).

      Sure, Ricciardo beat Vettel and Verstappen seems to be on par with him. But maybe that season was a one-off for Vettel.

      1. The statistic that Button outpointed Hamilton over three years is rather misleading though. By every other measure, Hamilton was far superior, and we don’t count results over three years, we do them season by season.

      2. Bottas might as well end up beating Hamilton, who knows, much like Button did over the course of their three years together at McLaren.

        Beating Hamilton like Button did would mean losing 2 out of 3 seasons.

    2. I agree with @george, there is no reason for Merc to not sign up Bottas next year.

      Signing anybody else from the sharp end of the grid will be counter productive. I’m sure Toto was secretly quite relieved when Nico retired.

      1. I don’t see how it would be counterproductive to have two WDCs on a top team attempting to shut out the competition. By your logic all teams should just have a designated 1 and 2. Awful.

        Top teams in F1 should honour themselves and the audience by hiring the best drivers they can get. There is no reason Mercedes shouldn’t hire FA and maximize their chances against resurgent Ferrari next year.

        1. There is no reason Mercedes shouldn’t hire FA…

          A Knife in the back.

          1. What knife? In whose back?

  2. So, Mercedes have given up more points yet lead the WCC :) Maybe it is time to accept that he has had more off-weekends this season than before and a competition that doesn’t involve the rival driving the same car as him.

    Bottas has been better than Kimi since the start of the season and it’s only Vettel’s consistency at the top that is keeping Ferrari in touching distance. It is only in the last few races that Kimi has started challenging Vettel and it should continue till the end of the season if Ferrari have a chance at WCC.

    1. Without the head rest issue in Baku and the gear box penalty in Austria he would probably be leading the WCC. and that has nothing to do with any “off weekends”.

      1. He could do without the off weekend at Monaco, Hungary, Sochi as well. Austria, he qualified 3rd (before the pen) and finished 4th. That certainly is an off-weekend.

        And one can’t remove component penalties from the equation. If the car is what gets you the win, we don’t necessarily credit the car do we? Hence can’t single out the component when it fails.

        Can only agree on the head-rest issue in Baku.

        1. How can you not include component penalties, when the manufacture (Merc) is responsible for producing the part and is therefore penalized with lost points in the WCC and WDC…

      2. petebaldwin (@)
        7th August 2017, 10:38

        @sceptre – Sure. And without the fastest car for the last 3 years, he probably wouldn’t have won 2 titles in 3 years. Mercedes have admitted that lots of their problems come from pushing things to (and past) the limit. They could, of course, not push thing to the limit but that would mean Hamilton wouldn’t get to enjoy driving the fastest car anymore.

        1. What does this have to do with Merc giving up more points than Ferrari?….it’s a known fact everyone is pushing things to the limit, Ferrari is bit more reliable so far….

      3. @scepter Without issues Vettel has had he’d be leading by more…ie. there is no point in playing let’s pretend with one driver, like if only this or that hadn’t happened. If you are going to rewrite history for one driver then let’s rewrite it for the rest of the ones that were on the grid too. To be fair.

        1. We are debating “We’ve given up a lot of points to this point – Ferrari have given up a lot less as a team.” emphasis on the part in bold, What does Vettel have to with this quote?

          1. Well I think Vettel is part of the team, no? And you are the one suggesting things would be different if it weren’t for LH’s Baku, or Austria. Things would be different for Vettel too if you want to substitute results. LH is where he is ‘as a team’ too. As a team they are leading the WCC but trailing the WDC. This is not LH vs Ferrari. It’s Mercedes vs Ferrari.

          2. No, i’m suggesting the points difference in the WDC has more to do with Baku and Austria than with his “off weekends” like the OP was suggesting. you were the one arguing the vettel angle.

      4. Without bad safety car timings, aggressive Dutch driver, exploding tyre Vettel would be out of sight in WDC. Hamilton has the best car and is loosing due to Vettel being the better driver.

  3. I don’t think Merc has given away more points than Ferrari. I think they are level on that.

    1. I agree. Kimi has given up a lot of points by finishing outside the top 4 on a number of occasions, and Vettel gave up a race win when he decided to play bumper cars. I think it’s been pretty even on the opportunities lost for both the teams.

      1. @todfod not to mention Silverstone where Ferrari’s 2-3 finish quickly became 3-7 because they gambled on pushing their tyre strategy to the limit and lost out

        1. A small detail, maybe, but Pirelli said both cases were punctures and not due to the tyres being on any limit..

          1. and isn’t it also true that a high mileage tyre that’s had most of it’s rubber worn away is probably more prone to being punctured?

        2. That’s maybe on Vettel’s case. But I don’t recall Kimi’s tyre strategy differ from Mercedes on that race.

    2. Vettel was quite unlucky at the start of the season with safery cars etc. A bunch of points and one or two quite potential wins gone.

      1. Vettel should have won in China indeed without safety car as he was much faster on slicks than the leaders on wets. Spain was a mistake by the team (they knew he had to stop again, so why not pit him during the virtual safety car period?).

  4. Probably because theres not much to talk about in the break but feel like Ham and Mercedes keep banging on about points since Ham gave the position back. Its like they have an air of superiority just because Ham did what he should and said he would.

    1. As I understand it, Bottas was given a team order during the Bahrain GP to let Hamilton pass him, so Hamilton got 2nd Place = 18 points while Bottas got 3rd Place = 15 points. So, by virtue of team orders there was a difference of 3 points in Hamilton’s favour. At the Hungarian GP Bottas finished ahead of Hamilton in 3rd Place = 15 points, while Hamilton finished 4th = 12 points. So there was a difference of 3 points in Bottas’ favour. At the very least one could argue the net outcome is neither driver will have gained or lost points to date. I think there is a point which is actually being overlooked, which is Hamilton got 3 extra points by virtue of Team Orders, and if there weren’t any orders he’d be 3 points behind where he is now, while Bottas would be 3 points ahead of where he is now.

  5. I do not agree with Hamilton’s statement. The Spanish was an example where Ferrari threw away a win because of their poor strategy.

    Both teams have had their ups and downs in a manner that is quite usual with an F1 season.

    1. Not to mention Kimi has been taken out by Bottas in two races(Baku and Spain).

  6. Well that is snail news from Autosport and F1F.
    That quote from Hamilton has more than a week ago.

    1. Do you think the drivers are doing interviews everyday in the summer break?

      1. @jeff1s I always try to refer to the original sources for quotes but in this case I didn’t see these were previously in an earlier article in The Telegraph.

        1. @keithcollantine No offence there, it’s just grumpy me in the morning. Have a nice summer break.

          @brawngp No. They’re too busy on instagram.

  7. Three things come to mind.. Vettel has given up fewer points, not Ferrari. Ferrari has given up more points infact.

    Mercedes are doing just fine Hamilton however is in a pickle, pickle of not having a slow #2, and nobody wanting team orders. Picking lead driver with 4 races to go is a bit late.

    Ferrari further has an opening to poach Bottas right now, that would potentially majorly hurt Mercedes WCC efforts.

    Easy to see Bottas has more 2018 potential than Kimi.

  8. The excuses are starting a little earlier this season for not winning the championship I see.

    He just cannot seem to win one when up against a more challenging/established driver having only ever (just) beaten Massa and Rosberg to his titles.

    1. Yes, he really is a rubbish driver. I can’t believe he even got to F1.

      He certainly won’t be remembered for as long as @asanator ‘s eloquence and contributions.

  9. (Hamilton) added that he doesn’t think he’ll “ever get back” the points he sacrificed to let Bottas back through on the final lap in Hungary.

    How is It a ‘sacrifice’ if It was never his.
    That means I ‘sacrifice’ money every time I pay my mortgage, or I sacrifice a nice Cabriolet when handing it back to the rental agency at the end of my holiday.

    1. +1

      1. In fairness to LH, he doesn’t use the word ‘sacrifice,’ the author of the article does. And you are right…LH didn’t actually sacrifice anything as they were VB’s points to begin with. That said, these were points that were handed to LH and were his to keep if he had only passed KR or KR had made a mistake. Or the team might have said you know what, VB is too far back, the points are yours LH…but they didn’t. LH did cede the position back after confirming, with a question…so you want me to let Valterri back then?

        I found his comment ‘will never get them back’ quite strange. There is still half a season worth of points left for him to make those 3 ‘lost’ points insignificant. It’s like anytime everything isn’t going his way the sky is falling and he’s so hard done by. Sorry…no pity party from me…you were just given a golden opportunity to not have to pass your teammate legitimately and instead take points away from him, and you couldn’t capitalize. The only thing more the team could have done was tell you to hold station and keep VB’s points, and then I’m sure you would have held your head high.

        1. I found his comment ‘will never get them back’ quite strange.

          How on earth can he get them back? They are not waiting somewhere for him to scoop them up…..they are gone. No matter how many points he has at the end of the season, and irrespective of whether he wins the WDC or not, his points tally will always be minus those 3 points. It is not that hard to understand.

          1. So by your logic it was not even worth LH mentioning it then? Are you suggesting LH is merely pointing out the obvious?

            Of course the implication is that if he loses by a narrow margin then Hungary can be pointed to. If he wins or loses by a large margin then the 3 points, which were never his to begin with, are insignificant. So of course it matters and of course his mentioning it is being done with a tight battle in mind where a narrow margin might decide it.

          2. It was never his in the first place so he’s got nothing to “get back”. He just gave the position back as he promised that’s all.

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