2017 Italian Grand Prix grid

2017 Italian Grand Prix

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Row 11. Lewis Hamilton 1’35.554
2. Lance Stroll 1’37.032
Row 23. Esteban Ocon 1’37.719
Force India
4. Valtteri Bottas 1’37.833
Row 35. Kimi Raikkonen 1’37.987
6. Sebastian Vettel 1’38.064
Row 47. Felipe Massa 1’38.251
8. Daniil Kvyat 1’38.245
Toro Rosso
Row 59. Kevin Magnussen 1’40.489
10. Sergio Perez 1’37.582
Force India
Row 611. Marcus Ericsson 1’41.732
12. Pascal Wehrlein 1’41.875
Row 713. Max Verstappen** 1’36.702
Red Bull
14. Nico Hulkenberg*** 1’38.059
Row 815. Carlos Sainz Jnr**** 1’38.526
Toro Rosso
16. Daniel Ricciardo***** 1’36.841
Red Bull
Row 917. Jolyon Palmer****** 1’40.646
18. Stoffel Vandoorne******* 1’39.157
Row 1019. Fernando Alonso******** 1’38.202
20. Romain Grosjean********* 1’43.355

*Five-place penalty
**20-place penalty
***Ten-place penalty
****Ten-place penalty
*****25-place penalty
******15-place penalty
*******35-place penalty
********Outside 107% time in Q1, given stewards’ dispensation to start. Five-place penalty.

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Keith Collantine
Lifelong motor sport fan Keith set up RaceFans in 2005 - when it was originally called F1 Fanatic. Having previously worked as a motoring...

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133 comments on “2017 Italian Grand Prix grid”

  1. Congratulations to Hamilton — and to both Red Bull drivers. What on earth happened to Ferrari, not enough downforce? Stroll’s drive for Canadians was a pleasure.

    1. Nothing happened to Ferrari, don’t you know yet that’s it’s the best car?! Not tested yet, but it’s obvious it’s the best rally car too, the best car on ice too etc etc… the best car ever!

      1. The problem is that very expensive component who sits on the cockpit.
        I expected nothing from Kimi, but Vettel was a huge disappointment.

        1. Kimi is usually quite good in the wet actually. Not Hamilton or Verstappen level “good”, but still.

        2. You’re right, that very expensive component who sits on the cockpit made the difference for RBR, FI and Williams… cause HAM drove those cars too.

      2. @corrado-dub– Do you need someone to explain to you how the wet neutralises the car advantage? Look at where Bottas qualified. Look at where the Force Indias qualified.

        1. Bottas didn’t get a rack at the end with new wets, unlike Hamilton.

          1. He did, coverage showed him pitting.

        2. @Blazz
          @corrado-dub doesn’t need anyone to explain to him how the wet neutralises ‘the'(?) car advantage, bc the wet doesn’t work as straightforward as that misconception might have you think. (Top) performance in the wet requires a different approach, both in car design as in driver input. Factor in some conditions that don’t let themselves get to modulate that easily, and you might have a better understanding why, just as an example, Vet took pole and race victory in the rain, on this very track, in a so-called inferior TR.

          1. Yes because the TR was the only car on the grid with Brembo brakes which just happened to work brilliantly allowing Vettel to do his stuff.

            Yes he had to drive it but that car was swift like it or not.

            In later years we can hardly say his wet performances stand out as master classes…

        3. @blazz, @krxx and DRG, That STR wasn’t inferior at all in those conditions. It was in fact a carbon copy of the Red Bull car with the Ferrari engine in the back which was in fact the better choice for Monza. There were 3 of those Red Bull cars in the top 4.

          1. @Drg Read my comment again (as a reaction to blazz’) and you will understand that you’re just backing my point: the car has a lot to do with stand out wet weather performances. And Vet’s performances in the wet are no master classes indeed, in fact that’s one of the reasons why I mentioned Monza ’08.
            @patrickl Again, read my comment and you’ll see that we’re on the same page. The TR was one of the best cars out there in those circumstances, but bc many people judged the car and driver as if it were dry weather conditions, I designated the TR as so-called inferior.

  2. It would have been hilarious if the top three had grid penalties

    1. The grid penalties are just the latest episode to bring ridicule to F1. Global warming, road relevance and cost reduction (for whatever they might be worth) are killing F1. We need a sport for drivers and cars, not politics and regulations. Take out batteries and minimum weights, take out other rule gimmicks (we all know the ones that we want “gone”), bring back team inventiveness (which is often zero-cost) and driver enthusiasm — we’ll get our sport back again. Honda might be on their back foot, Mercedes might have the best oil-burning technology, Pirelli or whoever might be able to develop better rain tyres, Liberty and Braun might have good ideas for 2021, but if nothing happens our sport will end up as the WWF/E of the wrestling world.

  3. Congrats Lewis and Mercedes, mega lap!

    1. Lewis had an advantage over everyone with fresh tyres for his last run… he maybe only did that strategy because wasnt fastest on first set. It worked for him, surprised others didnt try fresher tyres.

      1. There isn’t a 1 or 2 second difference in those tyres by using slightly fresher ones.

        Lewis had an advantage because he let the tyres cool down a bit and he simply nailed the lap. Just as Verstappen did.

      2. Hamilton also decided to go in while on a faster lap (but not as fast as his next one) for newer tyres and a last attempt on fresh tyres – so they took some risk (otherwise could Stroll have gotten pole??!), but it paid off. Maybe Ferrari could have done worse to try similar, or not – they didn’t so we won’t know.

  4. Wondering if what Ferrari did was to compromise qualifying for a better race setup. Thank you

    1. Grosjean said he didn t think anybody would compromise race setup for a few places on a track where overtaking is simple. I believe he is right. I guess the mercedes shod cars can afford a bit more wing given their grunt and rb has a brilliant chassi.

      1. I hope so as well. Was only thinking that Ferrari might have tried to maximize straight line speed that they really fuked up their down force levels.

    2. Well, Vettel was very competitive on Q2. Kimi was rubbish as he always is on the wet.

    3. I do believe Ferrari went for an aggressive dry race setup, compromising too much on qualy knowing RB penalties. If it is dry race tomorrow and I am right, it is going to be fun, although of course they didn’t picture Williams and FI will be in front of them.

  5. Stroll, Verstappen and Occon show they remember how to drive in the rain. They haven’t spent too long in «let s delay because it’s damp F1» yet.

    1. Hamilton seems to be doing fine in the wet usually too though, but other than that the rookies sure outperformed their experienced team mates yes.

  6. As an Ocon fan, I’m delighted! Just after the Spa incident, he delivers again.
    And that lap from Hamilton: I can’t be the car alone…

    1. 2.3 s ahead of his team mate in the same car.

    2. Q2:
      P10 Ocon 1.37.580
      P11 Perez 137:582
      We know Perez is usually a bit faster in the race, so they’ll be together pretty quickly :+1

    3. Congrats to OCO for his -after penalties applied – P3. He drove very well in wet conditions and finishing on top of Ferrari is not and easy feat.
      Here is hoping he won’t screw up his (and FI)race on turn 1 – or anywhere for that matter – on the early laps by trying to put the car where it won’t fit.
      I am guessing, if we have a dry race those who are behind, will get very close to the top 3 perhaps even before completing lap 2 and the youngsters know it.(so there’s extra pressure)

      Today’s Qualy actually reminds me when VET was racing for Toro Roso and had BOU as team mate, in that Qualy both did great but it was VET who had a superb race and ended on top of the podium, his first of many to come.

  7. Congrats Stroll – the youngest F1 driver ever to start from the 1st row!

    1. Let’s just hope he doesn’t interfere in the WDC fight.

    2. yeah ….thanx to gridpenalties of others……but nevertheless goed job Lance :-)

    3. As surprising as it is: congrats to him!

  8. 14th for Grosjean – nice :D He wouldn’t be much better if he was allowed to drive.
    20th for Alonso – eh….. what’s the point… :(

    1. I think Grosjean will be starting last as he didn’t match the 107% limit in Q1.

      1. He’ll probably get a waiver from the marshals. He wasn’t slow by himself, just got trapped by the conditions.

        1. Yes, but if my recollections are correct, recently drivers having not completed the limit through no time, were only allowed to start at the back, behind penalized drivers who would have dropped further behind.

          1. Yep, his time doesn’t count due to the 107% limit, ie. no time set, so he’s only allowed in on strength of their earlier pace, hence at the back, behind those who did set a time.

  9. What a qualy!!!
    And what a shame Max is missing so much horsepower. He could’ve really given Lewis a good run for his money.

    And what a lap from Lewis. Brilliant

  10. Best Q3 I have seen in a long time.

    The grid has been shaken up a lot so it should make for an interesting race.

    1. No this just makes Mercedes untouchable for ferrari

      1. @f1fan-2000 I don’t get excited at Vettel following Lewis for 50 laps anyway.

        Seeing the Red Bulls slice thorugh the field is a lot more entertaining. Also I’d like to see what Ocon and Stroll can do against the faster cars behind them.

  11. Lewis Hamilton is legendary! Most people underestimate him, some think he’s driving a bullet, he’s the fastest single lap driver ever! Congratulations Lewis! What a time to be alive watching you mesmerize us! Verstappen is good but not at Hamilton level. Good work from Stroll and Ocon, what a drive.

    1. Well he is brilliant but Senna was pretty impressive as well.

      1. And max is still younger than Lewis at his debut so let’s wait

        1. @Patrick but Lewis isn’t done either. The next few years could really shape the record books

      2. Yes especially in the rain too

  12. Stroll and Ocon might try something stupid tomorrow as they have nothing to lose, that puts both Merc and Ferrari drivers under some stress.

    1. Quite on the contrary! They’ve got their best qualifying spots to lose! They’ll be careful.

      1. @damon, I agree – people say that they “might try something stupid”, but if anything most times that you see a driver from a midfield team in that position, they tend to be more cautious because the team is putting them under pressure not to throw away what could be an unusually high points haul for them.

        1. And Toto Wolff is probably going himself tell them to behave.

    2. I worry that Stroll, being an over – eager rookie, might take out Hamilton going into the first Lesmo by trying to lunge for a nonexistent gap.

      1. To be fair, by Lesmo Hamilton will be 1s ahead or more. He just needs to survive turn 1.

  13. Yes right Mercedes are slower than Ferraris. Just curious but how did Ric end up being 2 places behind max although he qualified 1 place behind?

    1. Of course Hamilton’s pole has everything to do with the car ;)

      Seriously though, take a bow Stroll and Ocon. I’m no Stroll fan, but hats off to him that is seriously impressive fearless driving.

      1. Sorry I know you’re not saying that. My bad.

    2. Grid penalties are settled in the order they are announced.

    3. Probably because Verstappens P2 plus 20 place penalty (22) is better than Sainz’ P15 plus 10 (25) place penalty, Ricciardo’s P3 plus 25 place penalty (28) isn’t.

      Not sure if it works that way though.

    4. “Yes right Mercedes are slower than Ferraris” Perhaps you missed that today was wet. I’m sure you’ll be aware of the wet v dry pace. Look at the Bulls, F.I. and Williams. Tell me they are better cars than the Ferrari because they qualified ahead?

    5. You are not considering that Hamilton is THE BIGGEST QUALYFIER OF ALL TIME.
      You have to take that into consideration. Always, but now more than ever.

    6. Sigh. No one said that Ferrari are fastest in Monza.

      They were faster in Spa though, but they gave it away due to wrong setup choice for Vettel, Vettel falling for the dummy at the restart and Raikkonen not watching the flags properly.

  14. Surely bottas’ s reputation is starting to take a hit now? Nothing more than a number two?? What are your thoughts?

    1. I don’t see why his reputation as a number 2 should suddenly change now. His qualifying position has usually been very consistent. Infact the average qualifying position for Hamilton when I work out the mean is 2.7 and Bottas’s average is 2.8. That surprisingly is incredibly close. But it usually is the case that when Bottas qualified behind, it usually is quite a bit slower on the time sheets.

  15. I’m in America, so I only watch the races live – What the heck is this qualifying?

    1. For those who don’t know this comment was a joke, qualifying is shown live in America for every race. Usually too early in the morning here, so most of us record it and watch later.

  16. Hamilton’s in a different league. Well done Lance, great for Williams but I expect he’ll be gobbled up quite quickly. Also well done Vandoorne, McHonda need some good news. I love racing in the rain…

    1. We know he’s in the top league, but how do you know he’s in another league, cause his team-mate it’s not even in the top league! BOT is a driver who has only 2 PP, 2 wins, 1FL… but 17 podiums… since his 2013 debut. So, after quite some years in F1, he doesn’t seem better than a Coulthard, Irvine, Barrichello, Webber, Massa and so on. Plus, he never seemed to be a rain master either.

  17. Good showing by the Williams cars, especially given it used to be a dog in the wet.
    And seriously impressive stuff by the young-uns.
    And really cool that Hamilton sets the pole record in a tough and changeable qualy session, much more impressive than powering around a dry Monza.
    Ferrari… smh. I really hope they can salvage something tomorrow… and do it without screwing over Kimi.

  18. I’d say that was a session worth the wait! Good to see the talented youngsters flourishing in these conditions.
    And what a way to break the pole record. Simply staggering performance from Lewis.

  19. Re: Lewis’s pole time – cant wait for the detractors come here and say it is all about the car. Versterppen’s talent shining through. Again. He is the fantasy progeny of Lewis Hamilton & Micheal Schumacher. I wager he will be in a Merc seat in 2019.

    1. Well BOT has the same car. Wouldn’t you love to see a better driver in the 2nd merc?

  20. I don’t think this grid is correct. I don’t think you have applied the penalties in the correct order.

  21. “*Ten-place penalty
    **20-place penalty
    ***Ten-place penalty
    ****25-place penalty
    *****15-place penalty
    ******35-place penalty”

    What an absolute joke that is !

  22. they say that conditions like that really highlight driver talent. well lance stroll was super fast in every part of qualifying his 1st time ever in full wet conditions in an f1 car.

    so can those that say he was an awful driver with no talent really continue to make that claim?

    1. His performance today was great but let him cement his reputation as a quality driver. Its still too early to call as beginning of his season wasn’t good with too many crashes and also he is clearly a pay-driver so he still needs to prove himself but lately he is showing lot of improvement.

      1. @amg44

        beginning of his season wasn’t good with too many crashes

        He had 1 crash that was his fault during fp3 in melbourne, apart from that he’s not been off track that often at all.

  23. Considering my comment yesterday about Williams, perhaps I need to eat my words! Stellar from Stroll, outperforming the rest of the grid. Become used to seeing the Williams cars really struggle in the wet under these regulations…both Stroll and Massa looked good.

    Tremendous from Ocon, team will be thankful the drivers are separated by so many cars!

    Bottas, very poor today in Q3 over two seconds down to Hamilton. Going to be fascinating to see if he can get past the Merc customer cars, likewise for Ferrari, damage limitation for them.

    1. @ju88sy I’d like to see a Stroll – Bottas or Stroll – Kvyat line-up next year honestly.

      1. why? just out of curiosity? bottas i understand but kvyat is average at best. stroll-alonso would be cool

    2. It might be very useful for Mercedes that Bottas is a bit further down as he will provide more resistance to the Ferraris than the Williams or FI.

    3. I don’t quite understand how Bottas was very poor today. He messed up in just 1 secter on his final lap. He’s has been behind Hamilton most of the time but 2 seconds is totally unrealistic to what his potintial was. His privious laps were far closer and his first sector on his final run wasn’t bad either. He made a mistake that was nothing like as costly as Hamilton’s in Monaco this year.

      He outqualified both Red Bulls here last year and probably would have done the same this year if it wasn’t for that mistake. In the race, I am pretty sure he’ll manage to get past Ocon and Stroll. I think it is most likely he will be 2nd.

      I agree with your view on Stroll though, but he did go about 7 tenths faster than Ocon and the Williams has been really poor in recent races and also usually is dreadful in the wet. Ocon’s was impressive but I think Stroll’s was more so.

      1. @thegianthogweed Mind you, the Williams was mighty fast today, with both Stroll and Massa comfortably ahead of Ocon in Q2 (Considering the FI driver did at least a decent job in that session). Not going to take anything away from Stroll, though. The look on the faces of his family members was something else entirely. Really didn’t expect such a performance from him…

  24. I guess we will have to wait and see what happens tomorrow to be sure if these results aren’t related more to setup of the car. Perhaps this time Ferrari set up the car for the race and they will simply fly past everybody. Or it was another mega lap from Hamilton again putting him so far in front (especially compared to his team mate).

    Setup or not, very impressive how Stroll, Ocon and Vandoorne are in the top 10. The rookies are really putting their experienced team mates to shame in these conditions where driver capabilities should shine through.

    Plus of course Verstappen also far ahead of Ricciardo again, but the Red Bull car is usually quick in the wet. So it was sort of expected they’d end up in front. Guess beating Hamilton was too big of an ask still.

    1. How is less than one-and-a-half tenth, the gap between Ver and Ric, a big gap?

      1. @krxx, Oh, thought it was around 8 tenths, but the live timing app was messed up displaying really weird lap times.

  25. Alonso: rookie Stoofel Vandoorne was better than you. In the wet!!!

    1. I didn’t watch qualy, so don’t count me on this, but I seem to remember hearing that in exchange for Spa, Alonso would sacrifice his qualy to slipstream Vandoorne into the best possible position, as his [Alonso’s] qualifying was already pointless due to his grid penalties.

    2. @jorge-lardone He only did one lap in Q2, as he has a 35 place grid penalty. But you wouldn’t care would you as it’s much more enjoyable to bash drivers (any driver in fact, but you seem to have something against Alonso) at any opportunity without grasping the circumstances.

    3. Ricciardo:… hahahaha

      1. ahhh, a dutch troll.

  26. Very fitting for the best qualifier of all time to claim the record breaking Lap by more than a second and more than two seconds faster than teammate. Mega Job Lewis. Also good job RBR drivers, Stroll and Ocon.
    Hope some people don’t dismiss it by saying its all because of the car as Bottas was driving the same car.

    1. Ham was pretty even with Alo and Ros, and in 2014 got bested by him. There have been many drivers that had a far better record against their competent teammates. So that’s a bold statement to say the least.

      1. ALO pretty even with HAM? Come on. Hamilton had 6 poles versus 2 for Alonso.

        In 2014 Rosberg went for a quali setup hoping to lead the race from the front. So he would be marginally faster in Q3, but then Hamilton would easily pass him during the race going half a second a lap quicker. Also Hamilton didn’t even compete for pole in several races because of car issues. Think it was like 3 or so.

        1. @patrickl
          Didn’t know about Ros going purely for pole and remembering Ham usually was the quicker one in the race, I think you’re right. The possibility didn’t even cross my mind when I made the comment.
          But as for Alo/Ham, I’m quite confident. You’re right with the 2-6, but take into consideration what you said about Rosberg being “..marginally faster..”. Same applies here. One can “destroy” (as seen in many unnuanced comments) his teammate winning all qualifying runs, but if the difference is less than a tenth, there hasn’t been a destruction. And if I’m remembering correct, that actually was the average difference between the two, less than a tenth. Also, bear in mind the total end score was 10-7 in favour of Ham.

  27. Exceptional driving under rain conditions is the hallmark of great drivers. Today we witness Stroll surprising courage and talent. Sadly I think that tomorrow will a whole different story since it will probably be dry. But he might be 6 or 7 with luck. Surely there’s is more to come from that guy in the year to come. And what about Ocon? As is the case with Stroll I didn’t see him coming.

  28. Rain always seems to bring out the most excitement and admiration. Why not install sprinklers and run every race in the wet if that’s what truly separates the great drivers from the ordinary? We shouldn’t have to depend on the whims of nature.

    1. They said the same thing about high deg tyres once, turns out people get tired of gimmicks pretty quickly.

  29. I know its already been said, but what the heck, I’ll say it again.

    “…….. and some will still put it all down to the car”.

    Big congrats to Lewis Hamilton on his pole position AND pole position record.

    1. And it’s not? Ferrari times from Q3 were worse than Q2 times. Must be the drivers indeed…

      1. …. must be!

      2. @corrado-dub are you saying the Williams and the Force India are better cars than the Ferrari? Because they qualified ahead too. Maybe, just maybe, Ferrari underperformed today. This might be a shock to you, but it does happen sometimes you know.

        1. Marian Gri (@)
          3rd September 2017, 9:52

          Yeah, something like that I’m suggesting. That FI and Williams could be better cars in wet conditions. Why so hard to believe that? Or that Ferrari is a mediocre car in wet conditions, take it as you like. Anyway, the main idea is that Ferrari it’s not as good/complete as Mercedes, the conditions changed… but Mercedes still kept fighting for PP, while Ferrari dropped significantly. Being more sensible to different/changing conditions means just 1 thing: it’s not as good/complete as Mercedes. I reckon there’s another possibility that I missed, didn’t go as far as looking at the weather forecast for Sunday: maybe Ferrari used a dry set-up knowing it’ll be dry race. They didn’t said anything about a dry set-up tho. In case they used a dry set-up, I retract all my previous commentaries.

      3. @corrado-dub, So if they were faster before you’re saying it’s not the cars when they went slower? While others went faster in their cars?

        Look at the difference between Bottas and Hamilton. Just the car?

        Reality is that it’s just much easier for the driver to get it wrong in those conditions.

  30. Arnoud van Houwelingen
    2nd September 2017, 17:17

    So Verstappen was 2 in quali and Hulkenberg 12th and Verstappen has 20 place penalty and Huldenberg 10 place penalty doesn’t that mean that Verstappen starts at 15th place of grid and Huldenberg at 16th place at grid because of better qualifying time?

    1. I think it comes down to who came out for fp1 first?? Correct me if I am wrong but I think I recall dan Ric talking about it earlier?

  31. We know already Ferrari is the best car. Mercedes told us that, HAM told us that – although indirectly, VET told us that, HAM fans told us that… only me and few more guys not admitting that… cause we are fans. We were warned Ferrari is the best and still did not believe it. And again they were right, again we were wrong: today was no different, again Ferrari being the best indeed, again HAM doing the difference. And again Mercedes fooled Ferrari again, HAM drove 6 cars today, that’s why RAI was only 7th and VET only 9th.

    Seriously now, today proved that Mercedes is the better car in wet conditions too, not only dry. Unless something more or less unsual happens tomorrow to HAM, at the end of the race HAM will lead the WDC, Mercedes extending their advantage in the WCC. I predict an easy win if it’s gonna be a clean race – no SC period(s), more exactly at least 20sec ahead at the end of the race, no matter if it’s gonna be dry or wet. The WCC was lost right from the start of the season anyway, no expectations there at all for the rest of the season. And Ferrari is pretty lucky cause the RBRs are behind, although they qualified better. Unless VET suddenly finds race pace somehow, I don’t even see any Ferraris on the podium tomorrow. FI and Williams have significantly better top speed (up to 15km/h more), so no big wonders if that FI and Williams will finish ahead.

    1. He said so IN SPA! He was correct then too and in general Ferrari have had the faster car for most races this season and most likely for most races to come too.

      and … ehm … the speed trap figures show this:
      2 L. HAMILTON 326.6
      4 L. STROLL 325.9
      5 S. VETTEL 325.7
      6 E. OCON 325.6

      Huge difference yes … (the other FI and Williams car had an even lower top speed)

      1. Keep dreaming! Here we go again, Spa reloaded: I have different speed traps. It seems some see something, others see something else. The speed traps I’ve seen – dry (reckon I did not see any wet speed traps): FI – 351km/h, some other cars, HAM – 345km/h, some other cars, VET – 337 km/h, some other cars. After Quali, Paul di Resta warned about Ferraris top speed deficit to FI and Williams, so I guess he knows what I know.

        1. We all know Vettel won all his races and championships on lesser cars.
          One day, who knows, maybe his talent can get him the best car at least once.

        2. @corrado-dub, I’m just curious what degree of cognitive dissonance will be going on inside your head when Vettel is on the podium tomorrow.

          1. You know something I don’t? It seems so. You leave the impression you might know more even than Ferrari. If it’s going to be a dry race, yeah, big chances VET will be on the podium because his car is significantly faster than Williams and FI over 1 lap… but only 2nd place at best. There’s no doubt HAM will take the win tomorrow, no matter what will happen in the race. Only a DNF can prevent a HAM win. But if it’s going to be a wet race, it’ll be amazing if any of the Ferraris will finish in top 5, there’re some chances that the RBRs will catch and overtake them.

        3. @corrado-dub, Indeed, you must be dreaming. There is no realism anywhere in your posts.

          But yes, Vettel does seem to be unable to drive a car unless it has a lot of downforce. So perhaps he put on too much downforce yet again. That’s not a fault of the engine or the car, but solely the drivers’.

          Still if he actually did have more downforce then you’d expect him to not drive so poorly in Q3 and why would the official speed trap figures show no speed difference at all.

          Anyway, keep dreaming. I really hope they put Verstappen in that second Ferrari within the next 3 seasons and then your dream will pop (as it already should have after 2014).

  32. So Verstappen was 2th in quali and Hulkenberg 12th and Verstappen has 20 place penalty and Huldenberg 10 place penalty doesn’t that mean that Verstappen starts at 15th place of grid and Huldenberg at 16th place at grid because of better qualifying time of Verstappen?

  33. Is there anyone else wondering if Stroll’s performance today just broke the myth that Williams isn’t good in the wet?

    Cuz the guys who drove the cars on the past years who said that weren’t as nearly as bright today.
    One of them was 2.2 seconds slower than his team mate.

    1. My guess is that they went 100% for a rain setup, and hope for rain tomorrow. Other teams went for dry setup’s as it will probably not rain tomorrow.

    2. Bottas was only anywhere close to being this much slower than his team mate when he made a mistake in the middle sector on his final run. He was much closer earlier on in Q3 and in Q1 and 2 too. His end result wasn’t a true reflection of his overall pace in qualifying at all. If it wasn’t for that mistake, he will likely have managed 2nd even if the time gap was still quite large between him and Hamilton.

      About Williams, I don’t think it has broken the myth. They just looked to have got the setup correct this time. They usually have been terrible and it isn’t to do with the drivers. Look back to Britain 2015. The Williams drivers had the best start. They both overtook both Mercedes into the first corner. They remained ahead for quite some time. Then when it started to rain, Massa and Bottas fell behind and slipped all over the place. Massa was 35 seconds behind the leader and Bottas was 62! Bottas clearly struggled more this race but it has to be something related to the car than made them drop this quickly. It just lacks grip and lacks far too much grip which makes it incredibly poor for wet conditions. This has usually been the case most times it has been wet. But today, things changed and I don’t think it was related to the drivers. Williams just got it right. But Stroll especially did do an incredible job.

    3. And who was the other one Edd?

  34. This Grid is totally inaccurate .. Verstappen starts 14th of the grid ahead of Hulkenberg and Grosjean starts 20th because he didn’t finish within the 107 procent rule .. So Verstappen 14TH, Hulkenberg 15th, Sainz 16th, Ricciardo 17th, Palmer 18th, Alonso 19th and Grosjean 20th (failed 107 procent rule)

    1. For those questioning the grid, it matches the one on F1’s official site…


      1. Kevin the grid was different on this site before .. first Grosjean was 14th on this site and Verstappen 16th .. they changed it after my remark i guess!

  35. Force India are the VW dubs of F1 yet they are starting at pole position 3; there is something wrong at Monza this year and it maybe the curry eaters bid for relevance in F!. Are they putting curry in their petrol?

    1. Wow, intelligent comment……

  36. The grid penalties are spoiling F1 change any penalties to fines and give to a good charity lets get back to real racing

    1. The whole point of these penalties is is to make sure that teams spend less money on those parts. So it really makes zero sense to introduce fines for replacing those parts. That would mean they could just replace them as often as they like and simply pay a bit extra.

      It’s up to the teams and manufacturers to balance the performance and reliability better. They are to blame if they fail on either of those. Not the FIA.

      At some point the big teams were going through two or three engines per race weekend. Engine costs were about 80% of the total budget for a midfield team. Then FIA introduced the engine limit and the costs for the engines is now more like 20% of the total budget. So this rule change works!

  37. @keithcollantine Vandoorne is starting 18th after a MGU-H and MGU-K change.

    1. Vandoorne has a 25 place grid penalty–applied most recently. Which means he will likely start last. We’ll know the final grid only 30 mins before the race though.

  38. Saubers starting 10&11 with a good strategy they can grab a point or two hopefully

    But 9 drivers out of 20 getting penalties is a lot

    1. Despite the huge amount of positions they gained, i still don’t think they will made it to the points. Sauber really lacks in terms of pure speed (espacially on straights) so they won’t be a big deal for their competitors behind, unfortunately.

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