In the round-up: Force India are concerned the Halo could delay completion of their 2018 chassis.
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Your daily digest of F1 news, views, features and more from hundreds of sites across the web:
Will Halo introduction cause teams to miss winter testing? (Sky)
"We are still waiting for some critical information though, which is effectively holding up the chassis design."
F1 has no 'serious offers' from new teams - Todt (Motorsport)
"'Not something I will comment as a very serious offer,' said Todt when asked if he had had any reasonable offers."
Guenther Steiner Q&A: Haas revelling in 'fantastic' midfield fight (F1)
"We cannot go back to something like a V8. Those times are gone."
Giovinazzi heading to Singapore with Haas (F1i)
"Antonio Giovinazzi has been handed an FP1 outing with Haas in compensation for being pulled from last Friday's morning session at Monza."
Horner: Red Bull was second best amid 'Mercedes whitewash' at Monza (ESPN)
"Analysis will show it was the second strongest car outside of the Mercedes. To start as far behind the Ferraris as we did and only be four seconds behind Sebastian at the finish, was a very encouraging performance."
Hamilton is unstoppable now he is Mercedes’ top man says former world champion Damon Hill (The Sun)
"Lewis faced an fierce internal battle with his team-mate and it did not go too well and I think that destabilised him."
New Sauber 'completely different' to 2017 car (Autosport)
"It will be difficult to come back into the midfield. It's a big step and there is no big change in the regulations for next year."
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Comment of the day
A Porsche return to F1 in 2021 makes sense, @Jaymenon10 reckons:
For Porsche, it will be a marketing exercise more than anything. They’ve already tested and proven their technical nous with the 919. Point to note is that they are stating that the WEC doesnt offer the commercial reward for all its cost, which is in top tier F1 territory or more.
All of Porsche’s direct competitors in the Sports/Super car market are present on the F1 grid. From a brand exposure perspective, it would be sensible to start an F1 program. Keep in mind that although viewership of F1 has dropped, there is no denying that it still offers relatively large exposure. Couple this with the proposed “simpler” engine formula, its a win win.
FE will offer them reasonable exposure, but Porsche aren’t selling electric sports cars yet, they may eventually, but thats going to be a few years away. F1 makes sense for Porsche, and Porsche back in F1 will be massive.
Christian Horner will be smiling ear to ear.
@Jaymenon10
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Just Saying
7th September 2017, 0:09
The Mission E though is expected in the same year as the new PU era for F1.
Fer no.65 (@fer-no65)
7th September 2017, 0:33
Here’s hoping they DO release that thing just like it was presented a few years ago. It’s ridiculously good looking in my view.
Yeezy918 (@)
7th September 2017, 10:07
@fer-no65 I’m confident it will look 90%+ similar to the concept. the 918 production model arguably looked even better than the concept and that was a similar halo level model.
Jay Menon (@jaymenon10)
7th September 2017, 1:48
Yeah…I completely overlooked that part.
But still…in the short term, it will be petrol/hybrid powered sports/super cars that will rule the roost. Electric variants may become mainstream in 15 to 20 years.
anon
7th September 2017, 7:41
@jaymenon10, Porsche’s current plans are to ramp up electric car production very rapidly – there is already a fully electric version of the Macan coming on the back of the Mission E, with Porsche planning to increase production of those two models alone to 60,000 by 2023. Given that Porsche’s current annual output is about 230,000 cars in total, those two models would, by themselves, make up a significant chunk of Porsche’s total annual production.
With that in mind, Porsche’s CEO has talked in the German press about possibly having 50% of Porsche’s annual production switched over to electric cars by 2023 – if they do pursue that objective, then electric variants of their cars might well become the dominant sales force within Porsche in closer to 6 years. In that situation, would a hybrid really be that valuable to Porsche in 2021 if, after 2023, petrol-electric hybrids might be one of their minority products?
eljueta (@eljueta)
7th September 2017, 8:34
I really don’t think the hybrids are going to be the minority products in 6 years. The whole industry is turning to hybrids. Either hybrids or electric with range extender. Not everyone can charge their car overnight, and a lot of people need the range.
Just Saying
7th September 2017, 9:58
what if charging would take as long as filling up?
@eljueta
PS – a Tesla can swap batteries more than twice as fast as you can fill up your car.
George (@george)
7th September 2017, 17:28
I always thought battery swaps would be the best solution for ‘filling up’ on the move, good to see Tesla has thought of that, although I’d be slightly worried that the batteries are going to plop out the bottom of my car.
I do agree with @eljueta though, most people don’t have the facilities to charge at home, and most homes can’t cope with fast chargers without upgrading their electrics. Couple that with electric technology advancing so fast the cars must depreciate like crazy and it’s really just reserved for the rich for the time being. It’s a huge step converting the majority of cars to electricity, I can’t see it happening within ten years.
Gabriel (@rethla)
7th September 2017, 21:03
@Just Saying If charging would take as long as filling up then you would need a small powerplant at your house. Imagine that at a time when everyone wants to get rid of coal and nuclear plants.
PeterG
7th September 2017, 0:19
The halo story is again just force india claiming its holding them upm however in the same article williams say its fine & no other team has made any mention of it.
in the past force india have missed bringing there new car to pre-season test’s & have often been the last (or one of) teams to bring in there new car so maybe they should look at themselves rather than looking for excuses.
if other teams were complaining about the halo holding them up & all that then i’d see it as a plausible excuse, but so far its just 1 team that have a history of been late with new cars so i don’t see it as a good excuse from them.
BasCB (@bascb)
7th September 2017, 7:00
yeah, that article is more or less FI complaining (or already putting blame for not being in time), while the only other team we get any statement from mentions that it is tight, but ok.
Just Saying
7th September 2017, 7:53
I understand FI is stick in their development as they don’t know which colour to paint their Halo ;)
erikje
7th September 2017, 13:23
That depends on the ranking if you ask Brown , so FI will do a lot of resprays.
spoutnik (@spoutnik)
7th September 2017, 11:11
@bascb Though to be fair the one saying it’s too short is probably the most efficient team on the grid (money to performance ratio) and is clearly still developing its 2017 car while the one saying it will be ok is the one that is falling more than ever in WCC and has visibly halted 2017 development already a few races ago.
BasCB (@bascb)
7th September 2017, 11:25
I think they suffer from delay a lot is because they work mostly with external builders. Who want to be paid. Which means some work only gets started for real as soon as they get the first championship money transfer @spoutnik.
And yes, they DO work very efficient with their money, and that is probably part of the reason why they struggle with this more.
JerseyF1 (@jerseyf1)
7th September 2017, 12:46
@spoutnik, @bascb, @hugh11 The lower budget of Force India is perhaps a factor, and if it was just about getting technical specifics the I could understand it, but:
is clearly rubbish as it should not have been a shock to anyone.
Halo was originally slated for introduction in 2017, then held back until 2018 (see this article)
So it should never have been a big shock to an F1 team that it was being introduced given that it was always stated to be the most likely scenario 12 months earlier. The shield never really got anywhere with testing so even if it had been preferred it was probably always going to come in later with the Halo used from 2018.
spoutnik (@spoutnik)
8th September 2017, 9:11
@jerseyf1 Indeed halo can’t be a surprise. It’s probably yet another PR talk trying to obtain more time or something.
Hugh (@hugh11)
7th September 2017, 9:05
Well, Force India have a lot less money than Williams.
Strontium (@strontium)
7th September 2017, 0:49
I wonder where Porsche would leave Red Bull’s partnership with Aston Martin
Yeezy918 (@)
7th September 2017, 12:43
Unless Aston Martin intend to introduce an engine then I hazard it will make no difference. Just as their current relationship with Renault doesn’t affect it or their potential tie up with Honda in the future.
Sundar Srinivas Harish
7th September 2017, 15:37
I don’t really see Aston’s partnership extending to the F1 track, and yes, this is despite their disastrous earlier attempt, given that those were the days when you could simply lop the roof and wheel arches off a sports car and call it an F1 car. They just haven’t been involved in motorsports for a while now. I believe that their success in LM-GTE doesn’t really count (at least this year), since that monstrous Ford GT was hit with BoP restrictions. And didn’t the AF Corse cars crash out of the race in 2014?
Another reason I think they won’t enter F1 is that most automakers don’t seem to have a problem with the hybrid engine formula, it’s just the MGU-H (as per earlier reports) that has been criticized. Aston is still selling road cars with big V12s, without a battery in sight. They’ve only recently thought of developing a hybrid platform, which could take a rather long time to come to fruition, since they have never been around hybrid tech, whether in motorsports or passenger vehicles, nor do they have partnerships with marques that do manufacture hybrid vehicles since they started off independently.
Yeezy918 (@)
7th September 2017, 17:15
In fact, Aston road cars now use AMG powertrains, so the likelihood of their involvement in F1 beyond a bit of branding on the bull is virtually nil.
NewVerstappenFan (@jureo)
7th September 2017, 5:58
Nobody would mind.
Regarding inter team battle, last year really was grueling. Nico quitted on the spot.
It must have been tough for Hamilton aswell. He wasn’t even winning. Bottas must be feeling like a soothing balm.
Lewis now has found a new level to raise himself to. Results are evident, we will see how it goes on nextt few tracks.
grat
7th September 2017, 22:19
Hamilton won more races last year than anyone else, and should have won Malaysia. Not sure what you mean by “not winning”.
Nikhil Patel (@tiya)
7th September 2017, 5:59
Forget the chassis. What colour will the halo be?
I fancy bright flourecent pink.
Just Saying
7th September 2017, 7:54
Lol
Damon (@damon)
7th September 2017, 7:45
I wonder what halo’s visible impact on the design of the cars will be. It disturbs the airflow to the centre air inlet over the driver’s head and further to the rear wing.
I’m curious to see if there’s going to be changes to the front of the car to direct air differently around the halo or something like that. Let’s hope there’s not going to by any ugly trends in regards to this.
StefMeister (@stefmeister)
7th September 2017, 13:03
@damon The FIA opted to allow teams to put some aero developments on the Halo so that they can direct more airflow into the air-intake if required.
Markp
7th September 2017, 13:41
Aero bits on the halo? Its for safety. Little winglets could get knocked off by large objects the halo is designed to protect the driver from with potential to hit the driver. Surely no aero bits will be allowed on the halo?
Damon (@damon)
7th September 2017, 15:42
Let’s prepair ourselves for all kinds of wings and winglets.
This should be a given:
http://e0.365dm.com/12/02/800×600/2001-Jordan-EJ11-Mid-wing_2714064.jpg
Velocityboy (@velocityboy)
7th September 2017, 15:07
My question is how will the halo affect vision in the rain? I don’t recall it being tested in the rain and wonder how the deflecting water will impact the driver’s vision.
Yeezy918 (@)
7th September 2017, 17:18
I read a piece on here, maybe it was the story about teams being behind on 2018 cars due to halo integration but in terms of aero it isn’t a big deal as the lower rear wing works the air from the coke bottle shape mainly. If we still had the 2009+ rear wings on stilts it would have caused headaches.
Tiomkin
7th September 2017, 8:42
F1 is a money pit. The cash available is not shared properly and there is a serious risk of not getting a penny if you are last. The audiences are shrinking and new fans cannot be created as the asking price to see F1 is way too high. Porsche is insane to seek to join F1, I guess they have too much money and need to lose some for tax purposes.
Sticking a huge carbunkle in front of the driver will affect aero on all the cars so Force India has a point.
Aapje (@aapje)
7th September 2017, 9:31
They want to enter as engine suppliers, not with a team, which means that they get paid anyway, even if the team that uses their engine is last.
GeeMac (@geemac)
7th September 2017, 10:17
The cost they pass on to their customers will in no way cover all the R&D and production costs they will sink into an F1 project.
Mercedes consider their F1 project to be a loss leader, but they can justify it to the board on the basis that the R&D is useful for the wider group and the publicity they get from winning everything is marketing gold.
Aapje (@aapje)
7th September 2017, 19:09
@geemac Your comment completely missed the point since Tiomkin argued that they would get nothing. I argued against that. You are arguing against something that I didn’t claim.
GeeMac (@geemac)
8th September 2017, 8:16
@aapje Consider me suitably chastised. The perils of reading F1 articles when you should be working.
Gary
7th September 2017, 8:48
I’m guessing McLaren engineers have more pertinent “missing information” than the halo.
David Not Coulthard (@davidnotcoulthard)
7th September 2017, 11:09
I’m still more excited for the prospect of McLaren-TAG vs RBR-TAG Heuer
Oh and TIL TAG actually part-owns McLaren – though technically that particular TAG would be but a parent company to the one that might make a wee bit of sense to advertise.
chris (@)
8th September 2017, 6:31
Different TAG.
The TAG watches advertised on Red Bull is owned by Louis Viton,
The TAG engineering involved with McLaren is a Saudi company
DB-C90 (@dbradock)
7th September 2017, 11:36
And still no news from Mclaren, Honda, Renault or STR?
They all seemed so confident over the Monza weekend that announcements would be made this week.
Nikhil Patel (@tiya)
7th September 2017, 12:09
Yes. McLaren are going to replace the Honda engine with a hamster in a wheel.
erikje
7th September 2017, 13:25
And Honda builds the wheel?
Gary
7th September 2017, 14:59
I’m hearing that McLaren is looking at one of Honda’s competitors for an engine supply, Briggs & Stratton.
David Not Coulthard (@davidnotcoulthard)
7th September 2017, 16:42
Mclaren?
Sumedh
7th September 2017, 15:20
Keith, won’t there be an article on the 1997 Italian Grand prix soon as part of the flashback series?
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
7th September 2017, 19:41
There sure is – here you go: https://www.racefans.net/2017/09/07/1997-italian-grand-prix-flashback/
Unicron (@unicron2002)
7th September 2017, 17:21
@keithcollantine my concern also, despite the 97 Italian GP being a follow my leader affair!
Sensord4notbeingafanboi (@peartree)
7th September 2017, 17:41
Porsche has no chance, as I’ve said before, Vw can’t even make an equal f3 engine let alone an f1 engine, Porsche never threatened the top echelons of motorsport, not even a brand name porsche is going to do it, unless Mercedes leaves or they can buy f1 like vw did with Le Mans.