In the round-up: Lewis Hamilton has added his voice to support for the growing protests taking place in the NFL regarding the treatment of black people by police in America.
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Hamilton joins chorus of support for NFL anthem protests (The Guardian)
"We can all play a role in trying to make a difference in the world. Particularly if your leader is not helping in that area."
"I don’t remember the last time seeing (Vettel) falter under pressure so I don’t know how he will react. Time will tell whether he feels pressure."
"Ich wunsche mir fur mich zehn dominante Jahre" (Auto Motor und Sport - German)
Verstappen says he has been "three to four tenths of a second faster" than Ricciardo on average during the year.
Massa reckons Williams split over keeping him (Autosport)
"I would say definitely I have all the people that understand about motor racing on my side inside the team - engineers and everything. That's what counts for me."
Hamilton targeting 'weak spots' of rivals in F1 2017 title battle (Sky)
"At the end of the season rather than blame it on things like the reliability issue - for sure if that didn't happened we would have been in a different position - if I hadn't lost the positions I lost at the start of races it would have been the same."
Alonso aiming to decide F1 future before US GP (Reuters)
"I still need some more information to make this decision but at the same time I remain optimistic because McLaren is one of the best or the best team in the history of Formula One so I think we have everything to make it happen."
Valtteri Bottas Q&A: Still too early to think about helping Lewis (F1)
"I know the plain facts and that means we still have six races to go and proper points still in the pot, so I will not give up on the title unless all theoretical chances are over."
Alonso punched hole in wall after Singapore Grand Prix DNF (ESPN)
"When asked about suggestions he had left a hole in the wall of his dressing room after the race, Alonso said: 'Yes, still there!'"
Ocon reveals he gave Gasly first kart chance (Motorsport)
"I was driving go-karts one day, and he was there playing football. So my dad said, 'Why don't you try Esteban's go kart?' And after that he quit football!"
Nasr and Albuquerque Join Action Express Racing for 2018 IMSA Campaign (Sunday Management)
"Having won the Sunoco Challenge to earn the opportunity to race in the 2012 Rolex 24 At Daytona, Nasr returned to the event with Action Express Racing in 2013."
"It doesn’t have to resemble a bloody cage fight, but this penchant everyone has for minimising candour because of the alleged public relations damage once tempers have cooled does the sport no favours whatsoever."
Ferrari Race To Immortality (Ferrari Race To Immortality via YouTube)
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Comment of the day
Jordi makes a case for why Pierre Gasly should complete his Super Formula season instead of racing in the United States Grand Prix.
It might not be the case at all, unless Gasly proves to be a genius in Formula One.
Right now, he sits second in the Super Formula Championship, half a point away from the leader. The last two races are held in the same weekend as the US GP. Now, why is this important? Why should Red Bull care about their junior driver winning some national championship?
Gasly drives a car with a Honda engine. The championship leader has a Toyota engine. The next Honda engine in the championship? Naoki Yamamoto, 9th, 23 points away from the lead. Gasly is Honda’s only chance to win the premier Japanese open-wheeler championship this season. And Toro Rosso will have Honda engines next year (with Red Bull possibly switching at some point in the future). The last time Honda won this championship was in 2013, and it’s a 2-horse race with spec chassis. I would assume Honda really want to win this.
So the picture is clear. Red Bull would win nothing by forcing Gasly to run the US GP (it might be hard to score points there even with veteran drivers, let alone a driver with just 2 races of experience), but it could start their relationship with Honda on a bad note. But if Gasly wins the championship? I’d figure Honda would be really pleased.
Jordi Casademunt (@Casjo)
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Guybrush Threepwood
29th September 2017, 0:17
A pitty Verstappen isn’t 4 tenths quicker when it counts.
Canderous (@yoshif8tures)
29th September 2017, 0:31
This national anthem protest is a storm in a teacup and Lewis said the bare minimum when asked about it. Very clever of him to not wade into the murky water tha is politics.
Jonathan Davies
29th September 2017, 0:41
It’s not about the anthem. It’s about human rights.
JCost (@jcost)
29th September 2017, 16:34
Thank you.
DaveW (@dmw)
29th September 2017, 0:55
Funny, but I specifically came here too see something cool and interesting, instead of my usual habits of checking Politico, TheHill, etc., to see the latest maddening outrage from Trump. No escape.
Jonathan Davies
29th September 2017, 0:56
IT IS NOT ABOUT TRUMP EITHER.
It is about human rights in the U.S
@HoHum (@hohum)
29th September 2017, 1:05
BUT IT IS TRUMP, trying to label it unpatriotic.
Jonathan Davies
29th September 2017, 1:09
So if you start talking about the anthem and not the massive and systemic rascism of an entire nation then Trump has already won
JCost (@jcost)
29th September 2017, 16:36
Indeed. People changing the narrative and deflecting the original intent is a disgrace. People should give themselves the chance to share their experiences in a constructive way, dialogue is the way, shutting up the protest to avoid to talk about an issue worthy of being talked about is really sad.
Me Again
29th September 2017, 7:51
Yes it’s about Trump.
Just read what Hamiltan said: “try to make a difference in the world – particularly if your leader is not helping in that area.”
PS you can also try to make a point without shouting or using all Caps.
Jordi Casademunt (@casjo)
29th September 2017, 10:26
The original protest was never about Trump. Colin Kaepernick started kneeling to protest police violence against black people and systemic racism. In fact, he first sit during the anthem, but veterans suggested kneeling as a more respectful way of protest. Kaepernick started doing this before the elections, because it was a problem before Trump. It has been a problem for quite a while really.
Me Again
29th September 2017, 10:35
Correct @casjo.
But the articles linked here are about Hamilton’s response, and his support of the NFL/other sportmen’s protests. And those protest are all about that Trump. Specifically, Trump’s choice to not distance himself from neo-nazis but instead goes after Kaepernick.
@HoHum (@hohum)
29th September 2017, 1:00
But 3 cheers for him, putting principle before the risk of offending a very thin skinned and vengeful head of state. Don’t be surprised to see posts labelling LH a secret muslim and denied entry to US if his remarks get picked up in the US and embarrass the Donald.
Robbie (@robbie)
29th September 2017, 13:40
Oh ‘’the Donald’ embarrasses himsef and his country every day, and thousands of people have said far far worse against him as well. While I’m sure (I think, lol) you’re being tongue in cheek, Trump will not even notice LH’s remark.
mfreire
29th September 2017, 0:41
I didn’t think people outside of the United States gave a damn about the NFL protests. But since LH is constantly coming over here… I guess its somehow newsworthy in the UK.
Jonathan Davies
29th September 2017, 0:43
People aren’t protesting the NFL, they’re protesting being the victims of rascism.
Seppo (@helava)
29th September 2017, 0:48
Mr. Davies’ point is the most important one. I don’t know how many of you are from the US, but however it’s being pitched in the news, this is a protest about the constant, unjustified, preventable deaths of black men at the hands of our police officers.
Kneeling during the anthem ISN’T a disrespectful gesture, whatever you may have heard. It’s obviously being painted as such to demonize the protesters. But their point is, in the US, *extremely* important, and while it’s completely bizarre that this is finally the protest that brought it to an unavoidable national discussion, it’s a protest that is more than justified. In my opinion, if you’re *not* on the side of the protesters, you’re either not paying attention to what’s going on, or if you *are* paying attention, and you’re still against them, you’re deeply, deeply racist.
Seppo (@helava)
29th September 2017, 0:50
* primarily black men, but minorities of all colors & genders.
@HoHum (@hohum)
29th September 2017, 1:11
Well said @helava, I’m saddened that situation still exists on the day a great Crusader for the rights of all minorities has died at the good age of 91.
EDD (@eddfire)
29th September 2017, 2:17
Cops kill twice as many whites as they kill blacks, are you not going to mention their constant, unjustified, preventable deaths?..
Gotta keep the narrative going ey?
Maciek (@maciek)
29th September 2017, 5:27
@eddfire well since there are about six times more whites than blacks in the US, twice as many killed by police does seem like a disparity indeed
Me Again
29th September 2017, 7:58
Sorry @eddfire, you’re on the wrong site. This is not Breitbart.
EDD (@eddfire)
29th September 2017, 13:10
@maciek Don’t mention the elephant in the room, that is Blacks commit more crime than whites while making up just 13% of the population, if anything, they should be getting killed at the same rate as whites. There is no disparity.
Maciek (@maciek)
29th September 2017, 13:37
@eddfire ghetto-ized poverty correlates with a broad range of social problems including high criminality rates – not exactly a news flash, not exactly confined to the US or to black communities, yes? Blacks overall in the US show higher rates of crime – but which blacks, where, which communities specifically, which areas? Arguments like yours also conveniently avoid mentioning that blacks are also disproportionately likely to be victims of crime. And if you care to take an objective look at the broader picture, how is it again exactly that so many black Americans came to be living in ghettos for so long?
Or if you don’t care to do that, then what is your argument about black people and criminality, exactly?
That’s the problem with thinking in ‘they’ and ‘us’ – it lumps people into stats rather than people and makes it ok when one of ‘them’ gets brutalized, because, well you know, deep inside you know he deserved it, right?
EDD (@eddfire)
29th September 2017, 16:25
@maciek Considering you thought it to be a disparity while conveniently ignoring the insanely how amount of crime black people on a whole commit, I thought it would come to you as a news flash. Or were you just being purposely dishonest, fully well knowing black crime and police killings of black Americans go hand in hand? There is a reason Asians don’t get killed by cops (to any significant amount), because they do not commit significant crime.
Arguments like mine never ignore black on black crime, it’s the total opposite, the media and most of the population selectively choose to be emotionally outraged at the 0.1% of blacks killed by cops(of which the overwhelmingly majority are justified) while we ignore the 93% of black homicides at the hands of other black people.
My argument is that black Americans need to take responsibility for their own actions, instead of blaming the “system”, and likewise white people need to stop excuse making for black crime, this is bigotry of low expectations, these same people would never in their lives attempt to justify white crime, treat black people to the same standards as white people when it comes to crime.
Maciek (@maciek)
29th September 2017, 17:52
@eddfire the way you frame your argument in this last reply suggests that all police killings of black ‘criminals’ are justified, which they are manifestly not. It’s ridiculously well documented that the American justice system on balance disproportionately criminalizes petty offences (that no sane country would jail people for, not for any significant amount of time anyways), especially offences like small amounts drug possession, which black urban male youths are disproportionately likely to get caught doing. You also very conveniently ignored my point about concentrated poverty breeding social ills no matter where you care to look the world over. And, finally, your whole argumentation seems based on a perception that police killings in general are a justified response to crime, which again no sane country would condone, but hey, go go USA.
Maciek (@maciek)
29th September 2017, 17:58
+@eddfire though you say that your argument is that
everything you say suggests that what you really mean is that black Americans who’ve done nothing wrong should be responsible of the actions of those who have – that is the pure essence of profiling and guilt by association, and goes against the most basic notions of justice and jurisprudence.
EDD (@eddfire)
30th September 2017, 0:17
@maciek I’m not “conveniently” ignoring anything, your arguments are weak at best. I never suggested “All police killings are justified”, I specifically said the overwhelmingly majority of police killings are justified, towards any race.
Black males are disproportionately more likely to get caught with drugs because they disproportionately commit way more crime, that is the reason for them being more likely to be charged, as possesion of weed is usually an added on charge. These stats are always adjusted for population size while ignoring that black americans commit way more crime to their small population makeup.
Has your argument just resorted to black people dindu nuffin? lol.
Maciek (@maciek)
30th September 2017, 4:48
@eddfire Well clearly the sheer rhetorical force and clinically sharp logic of your closing line is ample proof that my arguments are weak at best, or at least I take it to be so since you chose not to acknowledge any… sorry, the overwhelming majority of them. Serves me right too, I’m sure it was statistically more likely given where, when and to which parents I was born, so I shouldn’t complain. But seriously folks, there’s no point in trying to carry on a discussion when one person refuses to address the other’s points in any meaningful way and keeps banging one and the same drum instead. So happy trails to you, well, if you’re statistically predetermined to have them that is.
Gary
29th September 2017, 8:27
Facts and analysis.
https://scholar.harvard.edu/fryer/publications/empirical-analysis-racial-differences-police-use-force
Abstract
This paper explores racial differences in police use of force. On non-lethal uses of force, blacks and Hispanics are more than fifty percent more likely to experience some form of force in interactions with police. Adding controls that account for important context and civilian behavior reduces, but cannot fully explain, these disparities. On the most extreme use of force –officer-involved shootings – we find no racial differences in either the raw data or when contextual factors are taken into account. We argue that the patterns in the data are consistent with a model in which police officers are utility maximizers, a fraction of which have a preference for discrimination, who incur relatively high expected costs of officer-involved shootings.
JCost (@jcost)
29th September 2017, 16:38
+1
mfreire
29th September 2017, 1:50
(Sorry Keith, I know this has nothing to do with F1 or motor racing in general but I want to explain myself.) @Jonathan Davies I live in the United States and I know very well what those protests are about, probably better than you do. They are about 2 things:
1. The often violently presumptuous and fatal treatment of the African-American race here by primarily authority figures, most, if not all of whom are Caucasian.
2. The refusal to put up with Trump’s comments he made about the honestly dimwitted NFL player Colin Kaepernick who started the entire kneeling thing last year by first sitting on the bench, then kneeling- he called that specific NFL player (who is almost certainly a good guy, but I can’t say for sure because I’ve never met him personally) a son of a b***h and said that he should have been fired on the spot. People over here are angry over those comments because the NFL has nothing to do with him and his presidency, and those kinds of comments by the man who holds the highest political office in the land demonstrate a clear disinterest in keeping things democratic over here. It represents a clear preference to authoritarian rule and violation of people’s rights in the name of running a business. Forget that. I completely agree with what these players did last weekend specifically and they should show an example by standing up to Trump’s bullying. That in my opinion are really what those last weekend’s protests are about- the refusal to put up with bullying and uniting as Americans.
(Also, I said Kaepernick is dimwitted because he protested before the start of a game last year before Trump was elected president to demonstrate his feelings about civil rights in a situation and a profession that at that moment really has nothing to do with civil rights- although at that time there were a number of seperate incidents where a number of black men were shot and killed in situations where a policeman misunderstood the situation and the black man paid for his life for it. If Kapernick wants to demonstrate his feelings about civil rights on his own time, fine. But in a situation like that, where is a game to be won in a league where there is billions of dollars involved and the coaches and managers have to be focused on keeping that business going by winning games, Kaepernick’s mind should be on his game 110%- not on civil rights. At that moment, he showed poor judgement. His mind being elsewhere might have been why his team won 2 games and lost 14 games that season.
mfreire
29th September 2017, 1:53
*they should show an example to everyone by standing up to Trump’s bullying, which he is well known for in almost all quarters
Pat
29th September 2017, 5:37
Kaepernick used the forum available to him. Furthermore, the U.S. government politicized the national anthem’s use in football when they started paying the nfl millions of dollars to get the players to start standing on the field during the anthem to help drive recruiting for the armed forces.
Emohug
29th September 2017, 9:02
Rather than going for redneck soundbites, Trump should be 110% focussed on his job where there is trillions of dollars involved and lives at stake (& maybe focus on those wasted by his country’s officials at first).
Ju88sy (@)
29th September 2017, 2:33
Here in the UK NFL is increasingly popular, maybe you are not aware that since 2007 the league has played games here, with four in the 2017 season. With that it is hardly surprising Hamilton was asked about the take-the-knee protests, following Charlottesville and Trumps unedifying comments on that incident and the NFL.
Aussie
29th September 2017, 3:50
I’ve visited this site many times in over the years. It is unfortunate that my first post is not about F1 which I have followed since 1986. Lewis is a great driver. But Lewis the person is an idiot and has clearly shown that over the years. So it is OK for people to disrespect their nation just because a few African-Americans are killed by white policemen? But the real issue which the Black Lives Matter people fail to acknowledge is that many, MANY more African-Americans are killed by other African-Americans. Do these lives also not matter? What are BLM groups doing to stop black-on-black killings? Oh that’s right, these are not racist killings so they don’t offend the political correct crowd. Lewis needs to open his eyes before he opens his mouth.
Rhys Lloyd (@justrhysism)
29th September 2017, 4:44
Too bad you couldn’t make your first post an insightful one.
You’re taking Hamilton’s comments so far out of context; you’re literally discussing a different topic. Do you really think he took (or even had) the time to sit and think about all that crap you just sprouted? No.
As I understand it; Hamilton’s stance is that people have the right to protest. In the case of the NFL player protest, he agrees and identifies with the cause of the protest.
Pat
29th September 2017, 5:39
@Aussie
Your white privilege is showing.
F Truth (@)
29th September 2017, 8:57
Some uncomfortable comments on here even, i’m surprised because F1 usually attracts a more intelligent calibre of fan and this site especially.
Then again I often see comments criticising his clothing, who he associates with and music tastes which are all just thinly veiled digs at his ethnicity so I shouldn’t be surprised.
Lewis can stand up for what he wants, he’s a phenomenally successful athlete who has very much broken the mould in a sport traditionally dominated by yes, white privilege and he has risen to the absolute top.
Having said that, I sincerely hope he doesn’t kneel or any such during the Austin GP, he isn’t a US citizen and shouldn’t do any more than participate in the debate.
Robbie (@robbie)
29th September 2017, 13:00
I agree with LH et al and their stance, and I also agree with you that he needn’t kneel at the USGP. But if he does, so be it…it is a free country, it is a peaceful way to protest, and he has a lot of ties/friends in the US and spends a lot of time there, so I certainly won’t be surprised if he does.
That said, Trump, in his usual divisive and diversionary way, has tried to turn the initial action of kneeling last year, into it being about disrespecting the flag and country this year, which it never was, but plays to his base that elected him who are easily diverted from the truth. Due to Trump’s lashing out at ‘disrespectful football players who should be fired’ kneeling has become an action again Trump moreso than what it was originally intended. And any action against that vile excuse for a human being is fine by me.
EDD (@eddfire)
29th September 2017, 16:28
Truly a brilliant counter argument, pat yourself on the back.
Jordi Casademunt (@casjo)
29th September 2017, 13:07
How does that even make any sense?
Yes, black people get killed by other black people. That’s bad, of course. I don’t BLM are denying that it happens. There’s also the fact that a black person is more than twice as likely to be killed by a white person than a white person being killed by a black person.
But the point here is that public servants who are granted authority over civilians are killing black people in way higher (relatively) numbers than white people. America has a problem with police brutality overall, but the stats clearly show that people of color are more likely to get killed by the police than white people. It’s not just afroamericans, it’s natives (who have the highest death rate by police), it’s latins. It’s people with mental issues, because the police aren’t trained (enough or at all) in dealing with them. It’s the black kid who was playing with a toy gun in his lawn and was shot by cops before they said anything. It’s the black man who went to a Walmart, picked a fake gun from its sporting goods aisle, and got killed by cops before he had a chance to explain. It’s not just the deaths either. It’s the black woman who spent 8 days inpsych ward, where she was sedated and given lythium, because the police didn’t believe she was the owner of the BWM she was driving. It’s the black people who are given tougher sentences for the same crimes. It’s the fact that cops who kill black people very rarely get punished, even with video evidence that they were lying. It’s the cops who plant evidence to frame people.
Police are meant to uphold the law. They are not judges nor executioners, but often they seem to act as such. And yes, sometimes a criminal is creating a danger big enough that it warrants shooting them. But that wasn’t happening in any of the cases I’ve seen protests about. Some of them were criminals, but didn’t pose an immediate threat to anyone. Ans some were “perfect” victims, who did nothing wrong and followed the cops instructions.
And yet they were killed.
A ntaion is more than an anthem and a flag. And if its institutions are discriminating a big portion of its population, then that’s disrespecting the nation.
Robbie (@robbie)
29th September 2017, 13:28
So agree, especially with your last paragraph.
Would also like to point out that is is certainly not all police in the US. It is a minority percentage of bad cops and their systemic racism that has been the problem. There are awesome police officers in the US too…the majority of them.
It is the opposite of what Trump is tweeting. The kneeling is a peaceful way of protesting a terrible dysfunction in the country, and if these people who kneel didn’t love their flag and country, they wouldn’t care about the dysfunction and wouldn’t even think to kneel and, pardon the pun, stand out amongst the crowd.
EDD (@eddfire)
29th September 2017, 16:38
This is just a blatant outright lie, where did you get these stats from?
62,593 blacks were the victim of white crime.
320,082 whits were the victims of blacks crime.
Blacks commit 5x more violence against whites than whites do against blacks, that is way off from your numbers and thaat number isn’t even adjusted for population size, when adjusted it’s 25x more likely.
For specific cases, like aggravated Assault, the rate for blacks is 200x higher against whites than it is for whites against blacks.
According to the 2010 National Crime Victimization survey(NCVS) done by the Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) under the U.S Department of Justice (DOJ)
Jordi Casademunt (@casjo)
29th September 2017, 18:08
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2016/crime-in-the-u.s.-2016/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-3.xls
533 white people were killed by black people.
243 black people were killed by white people.
White people population in America: 248485057
Black people population in America: 42975959
A white person had a 2.1449982 per million chance of being killed by a black person in 2016.
A black person had a 5.654324084 per million chance of being killed by a white person in 2016.
EDD (@eddfire)
30th September 2017, 17:26
@casjo Your math is misleading, you’re not adjusting for the difference in population size, 13% black population to 63% white population is a lot more than 2.5 times, it’s 4.8 times. So there are 4.8 times the white people in the US than black people, yet black people are only 2.5 times more likely to get killed by them, if blacks killed at the same rate as whites, black would be 4.8 times as likely to get killed by whites, but they aren’t, because blacks kill whites at a higher rate than whites kill blacks as your stat shows, 533 whites killed by blacks to 243 blacks killed by whites. So blacks outright kill more white people than vice versa all while only making up 13% of the population..so what point are you trying to make exactly?
Understand that you’re only making these numbers because blacks are 13% of the pupolation, if the murder rates were what they are now and blacks were tied in population size to whites, whites would be a lot more likely to die from blacks than vice versa.
Here’s a nice stat for you.
93% of black victims were killed by blacks.
84% of white victims were killed by whites.
Clearly showing that black people kill more white people than white people kill black people.
Baron
29th September 2017, 22:16
They don’t. But they blame it on white people. Everything bad that happens in their life? White people. By default.
JCost (@jcost)
29th September 2017, 16:49
I’m happy Lewis opinion’s is completely different from yours because yours is quite misinformed.
racerdude7730 (@racerdude7730)
29th September 2017, 0:50
I understand the reason people are unhappy with the treatment they get or feel like they get in the USA but the way they are going about it is wrong. You should show your protest in a way that is not disrespecting your country, the place giving you the chance to make millions a year, the place that for the most part is there to keep you safe, the place that 90% of the world would love to live in or be like. By doing what they are doing it’s disrespectful to the country and every man and woman who laid their life down for you. If you have a problem with the cops direct it at them not your country. (Hope I’m not beat up for feeling that way). This isn’t the place but a fast story. The team in Pittsburgh all stayed in the locker room for the anthem but for one man. He was an ex army ranger who won a bronze star for bravery. After the game this mans coach came on international tv broadcasts saying he isn’t a team player and he disrespects his team and so on. That’s wrong! I’m sorry but it is. It’s not black lives matter it’s all lives matter to me
Jonathan Davies
29th September 2017, 0:55
If people of colour in the US protest they tend be shot or beaten.
It seems better to do what the U.S servicemen did in wars past;
Fight for Freedom. For everyone. not just rich white men.
mfreire
29th September 2017, 2:04
@Jonathan Davies Your statement about colored people in America being beaten or shot for just protesting is not only completely false, it is very offensive. Black people specifically (and also Latin people for that matter) are often not treated well here by authority figures all around the country and it makes me sick to my stomach that that is the case. A lot of stupid, uneducated policemen here, unfortunately.
But anyway, back to F1. I hope these recent events do not deter anyone from Europe wanting to make the trip across the pond to see the GP in Austin. You will be welcomed! I just hope for once LH doesn’t win; he always wins at COTA.
dbHenry
29th September 2017, 18:56
J. Davies – You state a lot of “facts”, I’d like to read up on them if you wouldn’t mind providing your sources.
Nick Tubig
29th September 2017, 2:28
As someone who served 6 years in the US military and knows people who died in service, I in no way feel disrespected by the actions of the players. As someone who took an oath to defend the rights and freedoms of US citizens, I would be more mad if people felt something was wrong with our country and didn’t protest it. To me, protesting is more patriotic than advocating the suppression of protests. It is every citizens duty to hold their government accountable for their actions (or inactions). Yeah, the way they chose to protest did ruffle peoples feathers, and I can wholly understand that, but it was peaceful, with no destruction of property and nobody hurt. In the Navy, whenever we wish to honor those of us that have fallen in the line of duty, guess what we do. We take a knee while honoring a moment of silence. As far as them chastising the former ranger, I feel the same as you do, it was not warranted. They have their reasons to kneel, he has his reasons to stand. To address the black lives matter all lives matter issue, I dont say all lives matter to people that support BLM for the same reasons I wouldn’t tell people at a breast cancer fundraisers that all cancers deserve more funding, not just breast cancer. But I do see your side of the issue, and it makes me proud that people do hold our servicemen this highly, and I appreciate your honesty on the matter.
Ninjenius (@ninjenius)
29th September 2017, 10:03
@racerdude7730
What a disgusting statement that pretty much sums up the rhetoric of Trump and the super-nationalists of the world. If you feel disrespected that’s fair enough, but who are you to say if someone else feels disrespected by this protest, especially those that have given their lives? Nick Tubig evidently isn’t and I would hazard a guess that his views are echoed by countless other U.S. citizens including servicemen/women. This statement serves nothing but to change the conversation from a racial-equality to a national-pride issue and antagonising others for not protesting in ‘the correct way’.
The U.S. is a country that was founded on protest. One of the core value of their constitution allows people to protest. These people are simply choosing to protest in a way that they feel will most effectively raise the issues closest to their hearts, without violence or verbal hate, whilst still abiding by the constitutional rights given to them. It’s the people that call these protesters “sons of b******” that we should be pointing the finger at, because by saying that they’re the ones disrespecting their country, namely its values, in the most literal sense possible.
Also, just because they earn “millions” from their country doesn’t make their actions any more or less valid than anyone else, so there’s absolutely no need to bring money into the conversation. I reckon many of these players would sacrifice all the money they had if it meant guaranteeing true equality in their country.
matt90
29th September 2017, 15:43
This kind of rabid patriotism is one of the things people I know find strangest and incredibly off-putting about the USA, and when similar nationalism rears its head here I find it very worrying. Once you think your flag and national anthem are actually sacred, you’re on a slippery slope. And the sentiment that kneeling during an anthem disrespects every serviceman ever is utterly ridiculous and quite frankly disgusting.
@faulty
29th September 2017, 1:05
I had a look in the article and there’s no mention of Max being tied in championship points with Pérez.
I wonder what would happen if the Force India were to get ahead.
@HoHum (@hohum)
29th September 2017, 1:18
On a brighter note, that movie trailer has me thinking I might actually have a reason to go to the movies again.
Fer no.65 (@fer-no65)
29th September 2017, 1:56
@hohum I don’t know… it sounds like the typical motorsport documentary focusing only on accidents, fires, injured drivers with loooong, tedious moments full of dramatic background music.
@HoHum (@hohum)
29th September 2017, 3:16
@fer-no65, yes but it seems to have a lot of original film footage or excellent footage using the cars of the day.
@HoHum (@hohum)
29th September 2017, 1:32
I’ve not read the article (keine deutsche) but it seems to be shaping up to be similar to the Senna/Prost teaming of yore. As an Oz fan of DR I like to think those missing tenths are probably due to DR choosing a setup that favours the race more than Q3, either way the’re 2 top drivers.
Jay Menon (@jaymenon10)
29th September 2017, 2:58
I hope it doesn’t descend into that type of war.
DR seems to be a pretty chilled out guy who seems to get the job done on track. He has been a bit slower than Max in qualy, but he’s brought the points home, so perhaps you are right @hohum.
Can’t deny the reliability though, Dan has been luckier in that respect, anything can happen still.
Rhys Lloyd (@justrhysism)
29th September 2017, 4:50
Is it just me, or is DR ever so slightly disadvantaged by his slightly top heavy physical frame (compared to VES)? The weight distribution could favour VES as he’s simply smaller and lighter.
Not sure, just throwing it out there.
Favouring race setup makes sense; especially when he doesn’t really seem to have a problem with overtaking on track which he really enjoys.
hahostolze (@hahostolze)
29th September 2017, 5:34
In what world is 1.75m Ricciardo taller and heavier than 1.82m Max Verstappen? Man, people really let that age thing blind them
hahostolze (@hahostolze)
29th September 2017, 5:35
Smart of Ricciardo to set up his car to be bullet-proof in the race. That collision shield works a charm too, no wonder he’s slower in quali with all that protection.
EDD (@eddfire)
29th September 2017, 2:12
It’s disappointing seeing him buy into the obvious fake narrative behind the kneeling.
Black Americans are not treated unnfairely, they are statistically more likely to be criminal,
and more crime gets you more police, more police=more arrests. They are
arrested/killed proportionately to the crime they commit, which is a lot.
Maciek (@maciek)
29th September 2017, 5:20
@eddfire so if a black guy gets stopped and beaten or shot by cops for no good reason it’s his own fault… for being born black?
EDD (@eddfire)
29th September 2017, 13:16
No, cases of police brutality is a thing, I’m saying that it is not targeted unfairly nor solely at black Americans.
Jake (@jagged-jake)
29th September 2017, 12:12
@eddfire so you have decided that today is a good day to sprout your bigotry against African-Americans and who has died and appointed judge on how minorities who feel their human rights are being violated should protest? Racism is a fabric of American society, with its painful racial history, so why we should pretend as if it has suddenly evaporated and we can all sing Kombaya.
EDD (@eddfire)
29th September 2017, 13:21
I don’t see Asians getting shot or protesting police brutality? I wonder why? Because they don’t commit an insane amount of crime. It’s almost like there is a correlation between how much crime a group commits to how often they get shot.
EDD (@eddfire)
29th September 2017, 13:24
And if you could point out how I am a bigot for simply countering the claim that Blacks are treated unfairly that would be cool.
“Believe in this side of the arguemnt or you’re a bigot.”
Robbie (@robbie)
29th September 2017, 14:08
You seem to be doing a fine job of ignoring that black people have been marginalized In the US since the days of slavery, and therefore haven’t had the same opportunity that white people have in the US. Therefore less education, fewer job opportunities, more broken homes, young black men turning to gangs for the only structure they feel takes them in etc etc. Thus more crime. Black people don’t want hand outs at this point. They just want to be treated equally and to be given the same opportunities as everyone else to succeed or fail. In many cases they are simply not even given the opportunity. But you don’t even care to examine why the crime rate is so much higher amongst blacks in the US. And I’m sure you know but choose to ignore that some of it is actually because black men have been known in some states to get 10 or 20 years jail time for possession of a couple of joints. Thousands upon thousands of black men are dong way more time than fits their crimes. I’m sure you don’t want nor care to be reminded of that.
dbHenry
29th September 2017, 19:04
Robbie – Why does it have to be a black man when you say :
It is all about the laws of the state, there are countless caucasian , hispanic, native americans, etc. in the same cells.
Robbie (@robbie)
29th September 2017, 23:09
@dbHenry That’s fair comment. I do understand that there are other races in cells as well, but I am of the understanding that black men do get particularly singled out. And this discussion started with a black NFL quarterback peacefully protesting police brutality on black men and too often going unpunished for those actions.
There is a movement in place in the US with some celebrities involved and I think Michelle Obama as well that are trying to get particularly black men out of jail and also prevent them from going in in the first play due to ridiculously trumped up penalties for relatively minor crimes. I singled out black men because I’m of the understanding that they particularly have been discriminated against the most by the court systems. Of course you are right that different states have different penalties for the same crime. I used an example of possessing a few joints. In some states now pot is legal, in others there are light penalties or even just fines depending upon how much one is caught with, and in other states the penalties can be quite severe still. I think what has happened is that when it is a black man, on average that individual will get the maximum possible penalty, whereas another race might get the minimum penalty, at the judges discretion. On average of course. Not trying to make blanket statements here. But no I don’t think it is ‘all’ about the laws in the various states. It is also about how the laws are applied to whom and to what degree within the range of penalties a judge has the ability and desire to administer.
matt90
29th September 2017, 15:45
Source please.
F1junky
29th September 2017, 3:28
Off these topics.
Just left KL. A few days ago I met a guy who is high ranking in Merc Logistics at the Sunway Lagoon hotel. Apparently Merc, McLaren and Renault support were all staying there on his floor. He won’t see home until after the last race. I think there should be an in depth article of these behind the scenes guys. The guys that make the magic happen.
Rhys Lloyd (@justrhysism)
29th September 2017, 4:52
Make it a documentary!
Send your request through to Liberty. They do all sorts of docos with the NFL. Would be awesome if we could get the same kind of historic and behind-the-scenes content for F1.
Sonics (@sonicslv)
29th September 2017, 5:37
I don’t understand that Independent article. The writer basically upset that Vettel, Raikkonen, and Verstappen already settle their problem behind the curtain and moved on (something that any respectable person should do). It shows what’s wrong with “journalism” nowadays, all they want is juicy gossip and cheap dramas, more often trying to bait people to say what they want to hear so they can put (often) out of context click-bait article instead of, you know, reporting what’s happening objectively so people who read it can understand the situation like they were there.
hollus (@hollus)
29th September 2017, 6:13
In that clip from the race in 1997, I thought that the engine noise sounded as glorious as a bunch of mosquitoes. Impossible to ignore, yes, but very annoying.
Baron (@baron)
29th September 2017, 18:53
Well said…The much vaunted V10’s which folklore dictates were “the heavenly chorus” were nothing more or less than mechanical irritants to me. Fine in a short burst but after 2 hours in the stands in was like, home time. Please don’t mention the V8’s. I’ve heard hedge trimmers with a more pleasing sound. 15,000 rpm is, to me, the maximum level regarding sound quality in a highly tuned ICE, and the 1st generation V6 turbos were spot on. I sincerely hope we see (or hear) a return to these glorious years in 2020.
William (@william)
29th September 2017, 7:09
I reckon Lewis Hamilton should butt out of politics. Sergio Perez too. Sport and politics don’t go together. They sound like Hillary Clinton supporters who are still crying over the result.
@HoHum (@hohum)
29th September 2017, 8:00
Yes @william, let’s go back to having the PR dept. make their comments for them and boycott any reporters that ask questions about anything that happens off the track.
Ninjenius (@ninjenius)
29th September 2017, 10:22
@william just going to correct a couple of typos for you…
“I reckon Lewis Hamilton should butt out of voicing his beliefs. Sergio Perez too. Sport and voicing your beliefs don’t go together. I could provide an explanation as to why I believe this to be so but instead I’m going to use this opportunity to unnecessarily bring up the fact that I don’t like democrats.”
There, much better ;)
F Truth (@)
29th September 2017, 9:33
Wow. That is hugely magnanimous from Lewis and the reason why he has legions of fans. Whilst we (myself included) cannot look past the reliability factor, he can put it behind him and give kudos to Rosberg.
Meanwhile, Seb can’t even take responsibility for intentionally driving into another car or causing a first lap pile up.
I don’t mean for that to be as incendiary as it comes across but the blind and inaccurate criticisms levelled at Lewis deserve interviews like this being highlighted. I respect Seb massively as a competitor and in terms of talent I couldn’t choose between him and Lewis if i’m honest, but he is a far more arrogant individual when it comes to matters on track.
Robbie (@robbie)
29th September 2017, 12:45
If he was truly ‘hugely’ magnanimous he would apologize to his team for blaming, in essence, sabotage against him as the reason for Nico winning last year. He played that card numerous times throughout the season. Has Seb ever done that?
In these quotes you cite he is really just pointing out the facts. A dnf cost him, but so did his bad starts…something posters on this site have been pointing out all along.
knight
29th September 2017, 11:45
Lewis is not my favourite driver but the truth is Obama vas a great president compared to Trump.
RunPower
29th September 2017, 16:17
How is not being a Hamilton supporter relevant to prefering Obama to Trump
SevenFiftySeven
29th September 2017, 16:18
Isn’t it ironic for someone to generally blasts political correctness, but still be offended by a protest that coincided with another PC event – the ritualistic bowing down, standing, hand-on-heart gesture to a national flag? When you deride and denigrate an entire nation of people by calling them criminals and rapists, you do far worse – that’s a direct insult to another country, and by association, to it’s national flag.
Well done, Lewis! Ethnocentric bigots like Trump need to be put in their place.
Baron (@baron)
29th September 2017, 19:03
I have no dog in this race (oops!) but during the 8 or so years I lived in northern Alabama, despite the recent history, I was always impressed with the nationalistic solidarity displayed by American crowds of whatever ethnicity which included hand-on-heart displays during the anthem. Mind you this was in the late ’80’s early ’90’s. Don’t let cheap politics and even cheaper politicians drive wedges into a great society. There are no winners.
ferrox glideh (@ferrox-glideh)
29th September 2017, 20:16
There is a difficult situation in the western world, and I am hoping that LH presses the weight that his attention generates against the Trump world. So if Lewis takes a knee in Austin, I will be so proud. Here is an interesting news story from the USA released today:
https://www.democracynow.org/2017/9/29/michael_moore_on_his_broadway_show
I’m not a huge fan of M. Moore, but this is pretty righteous stuff.
I know that F1fanatic isn’t a political outlet, but this is for those who have waded their way through these comments.
ferrox glideh (@ferrox-glideh)
29th September 2017, 20:45
The story of F1 is inspiring. It is the story of people coming together , progressing technology and science and sportsmanship. Racists like Trump are on the other side. I am not an American, but I am a neighbour, and I fear and oppose this power that is being unleashed on our sport, and on our world. The least that media stars can do is state their consciences. Good for Lewis.
Harrison
30th September 2017, 17:31
I don’t give a dang either way.
I just don’t want politics infecting racing too.
You can’t escape all the conflict these days.
Can’t we have one place where none of that matters?
(clean enough comment now? Or was it deleted for some other reason?)