Sergio Marchionne, Ferrari, Circuit of the Americas, 2017

No firings over Ferrari’s loss of form – Marchionne

F1 Fanatic Round-up

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In the round-up: Sergio Marchionne says jobs are safe among Ferrari’s top staff despite their recent struggles.

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Has anyone else lost their lunch in a crash helmet like Esteban Ocon did?

Done it while karting once.

On a more serious note – time for Force India to fire their kitchen staff.
Hans (@Hanswesterbeek)

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Happy birthday to Manatcna!

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  • 65 comments on “No firings over Ferrari’s loss of form – Marchionne”

    1. Worth noting that Ricciardo was faster in Q3. I wonder how the new and old engines affected their times

      1. @strontium Ricciardo is starting to feel the Max hype. Max got the engine and then Danny’s engine ran out of oil, perhaps Daniel thinks it was obviously not going to last, no wonder Daniel felt aggrieved. Ricciardo being quicker on an old engine makes you wonder, that was strange, maybe Max was running an extreme race setup, or he made too many mistakes or daniel was amazing. During the race Max engine looked good, I’d say the .2 estimate from c4 might be correct, they looked almost Ferrari quick.

    2. Besides the tarmac inside that corner, maybe they should just change the shape of that turn altogether, because it’s a multi-apex corner but it has no challenge at all being that, other than opening and closing gaps constantly, with cars following a single line… it’s not like Turkey’s turn 8 which had sharper apexes and was a tighter corner as a whole. This one is like Russia’s Turn 3 with a serrated profile.

      Look at that onboard, it suddenly opens and closes a big enough gap, while Max takes the inside. Either raise those kerbs, put grass on the inside or just make it a constant radius corner and leave it.

      1. @fer-no65 what kind of an argument is that? Cutting the corner is faster, so Change it? Why have a track anyways if You allowed this sort of Thing? It was clearly well beyond any grey are a regarding both gaining an advantage and Leaving the track

        1. Cutting ‘that’ corner is NOT faster (hence why nobody else did it).
          But as Raikkonen was on the (faster) racing line, Verstappen chose to take the inside and left the track.

          As much as I think leaving the track with 4 wheels is wrong, it should be managed more consistently by the track designers and stewards. Ideally leaving the track should never be a faster option and the stewards can relax and enjoy their milk.

          The Verstappen move was beautiful; exactly what fans want and F1 needs. He could not overtake Raikkonen before because Vettel cunningly fell back to give Raikkonen DRS as well.
          Verstappen did not gain an advantage because he cut the corner (it’s the slower line), but he gained an advantage because he was faster at that moment in the race.
          And as much as I hate ‘leaving the track’, in this instance it was a beautiful and well deserved overtake.

        2. @mrboerns you’re missing the point. I’m not saying the penalty wasn’t right. I agree with it, I hate it when they abuse track limits. So they should change the tracks to avoid such thing. Hence my comment.

      2. Chris (@tophercheese21)
        23rd October 2017, 8:31

        In terms of the absolute rule, the penalty was the correct decision. You cannot overtake someone by taking a shortcut that is not between the white lines. In terms of the context of the weekend, it was the wrong decision as the stewards seemed to think that every piece of tarmac was fair game, which was ridiculous.

        Changing the corner won’t fix anything as drivers will always exploit the limits. The stewards just need to do a better job of policing and enforcing the rules.

        1. @tophercheese21to You as well, see @braketurnaccelerate ‘s comment

      3. Max went off track he deserves the penalty, otherwise Kimi would have taken that radius and nothing would have happened.

    3. a little title fix: No firing in front of media anymore!

    4. I think the drivers presentation/walk out looked cheap and fear that it lowered the value of Formula 1. F1 should stay a bit mystical for viewers.

      1. @dam00r who ever heard of the words ‘cheap’ and ‘artificial’ in the same sentence as huge american events before?

      2. On Friday before the GP weekend, I asked my boss if he knew about Lewis Hamilton. He looked puzzled, and said the name sounded familiar but he didn’t know.

        The intros were not for the knowledgeable F1 fan.
        F1 needs exposure here if it is to grow.

      3. @dam00r

        THIS is TEXAS!!! YEAH!!

        Everything is BIGGER and LOUDER and TOUGHER in TEXAS! Even the PINK!

        F1 can’t come to AMERICA acting all bad because they turn RIGHT and left. Who are these guys?? We are gonna SHOUT their names so everybody knows!

        If you can’t handle a big slab a brisket and a little homoerotic shouting you can get your sissy tail back to the EU and have a little spot of tea!!!

    5. Today round-up had The Express article which was a round-up. Roundupception.

    6. Well, news today is pretty agreable. Lewis haa had a better carrer..

      Ferrari not firing anyone. They went from a poor season to fighting for championship until the last 3 rounds. That is pretty good. Mercedes raised their game faster this season, but Ferrari startes better. They need to hire not fire.

      And Lauda says it like it is. Worst decission I can remember. If we penalize overtakes like that, then “Honestly, what are we doing here?”

      1. @jureo i don’t get it, how on earth can anyone be against this penalty. Inconsistency this inconsistency that but if you allow this kind of completely shortcutting a corner as ‘overtaking’ Than why bother with having a track at all. This was such an obvious Cheat not punishing was Never an option. And Yes i’d say the same if the drivers’ roles were switched.

        1. @Jureo Either punish everybody, or punish nobody. It’s really simple. At no moment in the weekend track limits were enforced, which they usually do, and suddenly they do. Why didn’t Sainz get a penalty, or Bottas, or Vettel? I don’t get it, and most people who actually love racing, do.

          1. @murph like @braketurnaccelerate says, there is a difference between abusing track limits and shortcutting

            1. No there isn’t. You go wide to keep speed, thus gaining an advantage. Abusing track limits. It’s like Eddie Jordan said: They could have penalised atleast 50 incidents, then he stopped counting.

          2. Sainz probably deserved a penalty because the move looked pretty similar to verstappen’s cut. But with bottas verstappen pushed off the track. As for vettel I don’t remember what he did. But cutting a corner to make an overtake is a different thing than to be pushed off track on exit.

      2. The key here is that if everyone knew Max’s track was an actual part of the track, everyone would take his line therefore no overtake for Max.

    7. “picking one or the other is a bit idiotic.”

      I read this as both are going to get fired :D

    8. Todd (@braketurnaccelerate)
      23rd October 2017, 6:56

      Not enough people understand the difference between abusing track limits and cutting the track.

      1. The penalty was given for “leaving the track, while gaining an advantage”.

        It doesn’t matter if you extend a corner by keeping your foot planted and going wide or you cut a corner by straightening the racing line: you’re off the track and you are gaining an advantage=penalty. That’s not the problem here.

        The problem is, the stewards didn’t apply this during qualifying or the race when it clearly gained drivers lap time and they also didn’t apply it during wheel to wheel racing. See for example Bottas vs. Verstappen for P4 only a few laps earlier where Bottas only stayed ahead by keeping his foot in and going meters off track and there were many more today (no penalties issued on any of them).

        The only time they DID apply the rules correctly was on this occasion. That’s just absurd.

        1. Do you mean that lap where Bottas gave Verstappen the position in the next corner?

        2. Todd (@braketurnaccelerate)
          24th October 2017, 1:49

          @jeffreyj – By the letter of the law, you’re correct. But there’s a fundamental difference between cutting the inside of a corner, and pushing wide to maintain speed.

    9. In the end, the penalty was entirely justified as he clearly performed an overtaking move while being off the track with all four wheels. Yes, most drivers left the track with all four wheels at different parts of the circuit throughout the weekend, but the key difference is that they weren’t performing an overtaking move on anyone at the same time. Verstappen was the only one who actually did overtake someone while being off the track, so, therefore, he messed it up himself. He shouldn’t have given the stewards any chance to even think of giving him a penalty by simply making sure that at least two wheels stay on the track, but he didn’t, so, therefore, he got a penalty. I just can’t understand how anyone can claim that the move wasn’t worthy of a penalty. If the stewards indeed hadn’t taken any action on it, then it would’ve set a bad precedent for the future for other drivers not only in F1 but also in the lower categories.

      1. @Jereij Hmmm, Bottas, Vettel, Sainz. A few names come to mind.

        1. @murph With Vettel, assuming that you’re referring to turn 1 on lap 1: Yes, he went a bit wide at the exit of that corner, but he had already passed Hamilton by that corner, so it isn’t the same thing, and same with Bottas vs. Ricciardo at the same corner: Yes, Bottas went off the track entirely at the exit, but he, unlike Verstappen, stayed behind Ricciardo at that time, like Verstappen against Nasr in Spa two years ago. With Sainz, I’m not entirely sure which move you’re referring, but he didn’t perform an overtaking move on anyone while being off the track either, so Like I stated above, ”Verstappen was the only one who actually did overtake someone while being off the track.”

          1. Lol, Vettel went wide to keep his speed, had he turned shorter he would have lost the lead. Gaining an advantage.
            Bottas went wide when Verstappen passed him, then came back in front. Gaining an advantage.
            Sainz went wide, cut short, just before he overtook Perez. Gaining an advantage.
            Unless they are pushed wide, the only reason why a driver goes outside the tracklimits is to keep speed or go faster. And by keeping speed, or going faster, they gain an advantage.
            As Eddie Jordan said: They should have penalised atleast 50 incidents.

            1. tgu (@thegrapeunwashed)
              23rd October 2017, 10:08

              Well said @murph, double standards @jerejj.

            2. @murph Yes, Bottas passed Verstappen while being off the track, but unlike the latter, he voluntarily gave the position back immediately, so, therefore, he didn’t get a penalty. Had he not done that then for sure he would’ve been penalized as well. Regarding the other examples you’ve given: The key difference is that unlike Verstappen they didn’t actually overtake anyone while being off the track like I stated in my original comment, so, therefore, they weren’t penalized as well. The most important thing is that an overtaking move isn’t performed while being off the track, that’s what matters the most.

          2. @jerejj The penalty was give for leaving the track and gaining an advantage. Nothing to do with overtaking, or whatsoever. And Bottas giving up his position voluntarily; Haha, when did that happen?

            1. @murph the advantage was that he overtook and gained a position, so it is all to do with overtaking

    10. Careful there, Tatiana.

    11. I feel somewhat vindicated by my comment I made in the track preview about disliking the 2 metre wide red tarmac that runs alongside the entire length of the track – little did I know that would be the major talking point of the race!

      No need for it on inside of corners or along the straights. Also, I’d love to see a gravel trap immediately next to the kerbs at turns 1 and 12 so that drivers give a second thought to running cars on their outside off the track.

      1. A much simpler solution is just to enforce track limits at every point of the circuit and not just the odd corner. Then there can be no argument for penalties coming. The drivers are hugely capable and can quite easily do this but don’t because they know they don’t have to.

        1. Roth Man (@rdotquestionmark)
          23rd October 2017, 10:24

          To what extent would you enforce it @lagerstars ? Delete any practice/qualifying lap where limits exceeded….. fair enough. Overtaking and gaining advantage…… fair enough but what about a car pushing on its own in the race that just creeps over the lines, no positional advantage gained but maybe a tenth on track. What would the punishment be then?

        2. @lagerstars I feel theres no need for any track limits rules. Simply put gravel, grass and orange bumpers and that’s it. Not a single driver will take unwanted paths. That penalty was ridiculous.

      2. @unicron2002 +1 to this. I’d go further and say no need for it at all.

        @spoutnik I agree with grass, gravel, and bumpers. That’s the simple solution

      3. Max didn’t exploit track limits or put 4 wheels over the line or went wide, Max cut a corner, you can’t cut a corner.
        @unicron2002 @strontium YES.

    12. I have to say, the stewards are making live very difficult for them selfs. The rule is “leaving the track, while gaining an advantage”.

      First of all, “gaining an advantage” is sometimes not penalized and sometimes it is.

      Second, “gaining an advantage” is arbetrary, vague and asking for trouble.

      And last but absolutely the most important thing here, it shouldn’t be possible at all to be completely off the track and gaining an advantage in the first place! There shouldn’t be tarmac outside of the track at all but grass and gravel or atleast some low-grip astro turf so that it slows you down.

      1. There shouldn’t be tarmac outside of the track at all but grass and gravel or atleast some low-grip astro turf so that it slows you down.

        I think it was in the 80s drivers started pushing for tarmac as run off. The issue was if I remember correctly that the teams did not like the gravel traps as it damaged the cars. Grass or Astro turf was diabolical in the wet they actually picked up speed.
        So they changed over to asphalt, the reason being that the brakes on F1 cars are so good the drivers could stop before hitting something most of the time.

    13. When they say engine upgrade do they mean power, better fuel consumption, more flexible power delivery or a bit of each?

      1. Good question @johnrkh. I think one point to remember is that since this is a new spec engine, it also has to adhere to the stricter limit for oil burning – although I understood Renault is not doing much of that anyway – so my guess is that it offers somewhat better reliability (because they hope to enable a qualifying boost mode) and possibly more power

    14. tgu (@thegrapeunwashed)
      23rd October 2017, 10:06

      That Salo video proves that Verstappen was substantially alongside Raikkonen but wasn’t given space. At those speeds neither driver is at fault, but Verstappen did nothing wrong.

      1. @thegrapeunwashed I think it shows the contrary. Raikkonen actually moves out from the second apex, so there was actually about a car width between them when Verstappen left the track.

        Great attempt but sadly illegal. It’s only consistency that’s at odds here, following the letter of the law, the penalty was correct

      2. @thegrapeunwashed
        His front wheel was beside Raikkonen’s rear wheel. That’s what Brundle would usually call ‘putting your nose into a gap that’s always going to close’.

        1. tgu (@thegrapeunwashed)
          23rd October 2017, 21:54

          @3dom If there were enough room, he wouldn’t have had to leave the track. He was squeezed. The whole corner is done in under a second, as soon as Raikkonen moves towards the apex Verstappen has only a few hundredths of a second to react – there was no way of gauging how far Raikkonen would come across. Watch it in real time – he has to react in the blink of an eye.

          @george he was much move overlapped than that by the time he decided to take evading action.

          1. @thegrapeunwashed I’ve seen it real-time and I agree that he had milliseconds to react, he technically had the room to pull it off but it was hard to see that Kimi had opened the steering due to his headrest, but it doesn’t change the fact that it’s an illegal move, the line has to be drawn somewhere and the edge of the track seems to be a good place to draw the line. I loved the attempt (in fact I was jumping around the lounge celebrating it, because it meant I beat my wife at the predictions championship for this race) but as soon as I saw him overtaking off track, I knew it to be fair to get a penalty (same as Grosjean’s overtake in Hungary a few years back). Technically speaking, if Verstappen was worried about contact, then he could have backed out of the move, but he’s a racer and so he (respectfully) kept his foot planted. It just didn’t work out this time, small margins I know but fair.

            1. tgu (@thegrapeunwashed)
              24th October 2017, 11:17

              @3ddom

              I loved the attempt (in fact I was jumping around the lounge celebrating it, because it meant I beat my wife at the predictions championship for this race)

              LOL!

              I’ve watched the slowmo and Max only takes to the curb when he is substantially overlapped with Kimi (his fronts are nearer Kimis fronts than his rears), so I believe he had a right to be there.

              Then I watched it in real time and there is not sufficient time for him to judge what Kimi will do – he can see the apex approaching and guesses (or begins to see) that Kimi will turn towards it but he doesn’t know have far across Kimi will move. So he assumes the worst, which doesn’t seem unreasonable.

              He was penalised for ‘gaining a lasting advantage’, but drivers were doing that all race: whether defending, overtaking or just running in clean air. Either they enforce the same rules for everyone or for no-one, they shouldn’t pick and choose when to apply the rules!

              I’ve no issue with track run-off, but the FIA needs to change the border between the track and the run-off area so that exceeding the limits usually or always results in damage, be it: 3 metre grass/gravel verge, breakable (and front wing breaking) bollards, or whatever else they can devise. Having a committee judging whether track limit breaches ought to be penalised isn’t what racing is about.

    15. Roth Man (@rdotquestionmark)
      23rd October 2017, 10:18

      If the tracks are going to have silly tarmac sections on the inside of corners let the drivers get their elbows out and use it. Tarmac is for driving on.

    16. Marchionne: “No firings over Ferrari’s loss of form.”
      Narrator voice: “Marchionne fired his people.”

    17. Marchionne has been listening to all those posters who claimed their problems were all Alonso’s fault :)

      Also, I wonder how all those reporters feel, who harrassed Alonso whenever Vettel won a race for them “do you regret leaving Ferrari” ?

    18. F1 runnoffs are a disgrace for racing. blah blah safety, but it seems like the whole F1 track is one big run off area. Even Raidillon/Eau Rouge became a joke…

    19. I think Rosberg makes a good point: Since Max was trying to avoid a collusion – when he moved more to the right as a reaction to Kimi turning tighter into the corner (before seeing Max and opening up to avoid that crash too) it should not be penalized

      1. Unfortunately as much as I liked the fact he went for the move, I don’t think that’s a valid argument @bascb

        The best way for him to avoid the collision is to back out of it. It was his racer’s instinct that kept max on full throttle and if he’d been another 50cm to the left then it would have been one amazing (and importantly, legal) move

    20. Something I heard multiple times over the weekend from people I got to catch up with is that a lot of the drivers & team personnel are not fans of the drivers briefings been filmed & released.

      It seems that since they started been filmed at the end of last year it’s felt that drivers have changed there approach to them & there’s been a lot of drivers playing up to the camera a lot with a lot less things of substance been discussed & a lot less good coming out of them.

      The reason they have only released little snippets rather than the full thing is because they don’t want drivers to feel like they can’t raise issues that may be unpopular, However it’s felt that this approach isn’t working & that things that should be raised/discussed & that would have been in the past are now not coming up in the briefings.

    21. A lot of people are complaining about the penalty to Max saying “Everyone else was abusing track limits.” I think the thing that differentiates this situation is Max put four wheels off the track and shortened the track. He cut the inside of the corner and shortened the track. The other areas of run-off are a totally different situation. On those corners, drivers go off the track and actually lengthen their lap. They may gain an advantage in doing so, but they are not actually taking a short cut.
      Simply put, after watching the videos, I feel the penalty is right and fair. That fact that it happened on the last lap and tinkered with the results is unfortunate. However, if this happened on lap 1 and there was a penalty, there would be nowhere near this much discussion.

    22. Happy birthday Alex Zanardi !

    23. Marichonne always struck me as someone who fed those who displeased him to piranha fish.

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