Lewis Hamilton, Mercedes, Circuit Gilles Villeneuve, 2017

Hamilton is on Senna and Schumacher’s level – Massa

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In the round-up: Felipe Massa says Lewis Hamilton is on the same level as all-time greats Ayrton Senna and Michael Schumacher.

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Biggsy isn’t convinced cutting F1 practice sessions is the way to go:

Yes, by all means, reduce the number of hours we can watch the F1 cars, but insist on adding as many irrelevant “events” as possible. Reminds me of those phone/internet/cable provider packages, where you need just one-tenth of it, but they insist you must take a whole package, filled with nonsense you don’t want, and then claiming it’s a great value because you are getting so much stuff.

If I go to an F1 race weekend, I tell you, there’s a good chance that concerts and other “events” will be much more boring to me than watching F1 cars drive around for an extra three hours.

As always, this is a way to get as much money, by providing as little real value as possible. No real investment into growing the core product, and then reaping the long-term benefits, but contrary – just reducing their expenses by reducing the investment into the core product.
Biggsy

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On this day in F1

  • The world championship was decided in a controversial finale today in 1997. Look out for a new article on this race coming soon on F1 Fanatic

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  • 125 comments on “Hamilton is on Senna and Schumacher’s level – Massa”

    1. Liberty Media are considering putting three cars on the front row of the F1 grid instead of the current two to spice up the opening lap of races.

      Lets not do that, For one it isn’t suitable for several tracks but mostly your just increasing the prospect for 1st lap contact which benefits nobody.

      1. @stefmeister, sadly, I think that is the point – they want to create the prospect of more clashes because there are those people whose interest in the sport mostly seems to extend to dramatic crashes.

        1. It also gives one more the chance to fight for being first into turn 1. They are 3 wide everywhere and more often the crashes comes from the mid of the field by bunching up the cars. You are reaching.

          1. @rethla It’s not just the front row that is planned to be 3 wide, Liberty want a 3-2-3-2-3-2-3-2 grid formation.

            The teams are all opposed to the idea because they like @stefmeister believe there will be a higher chance of contact. I also gather the drivers (Via the GPDA) aren’t keen for similar reasons.

            1. Didn’t know about the 3-2-3-2-3-2-3-2 concept. What I had read was that this would not be at all tracks, so I assume that means only at wider tracks. I get the opposition due to higher risks of clashes, which would mean more caution required at the starts, but realistically, within a blink of an eye of the lights going out, often we see the cars going as much as 6-wide heading toward the first turn. So in that sense I don’t consider this concept all that outlandish.

              But if they are just worried about too often the front row taking off with the races, I’d rather see them deal with the dirty air effect and the tires, than putting a few cars a little closer to turn one at the starts and having them all having to be a little more cautious.

    2. I had not heard coverage in the States was moving to Disney’s ESPN/ABC from NBC. The end of the Hobbs and Matchett pairing will be bittersweet indeed. While often aloof, I have listened to these two for ages and it’ll be sad to see them signoff. I haven’t been able to stand ESPN coverage of really any sport this decade, so hopefully they can just rebroadcast Sky coverage, with no commercials (ahahaha).

      1. @eastman
        I’ll be sorry to see the NBC team go. To me Hobbs Conveys a real joy for the sport and drivers. I enjoy how he encourages each driver over the line during qualifying.

        Sadly a commercial free F1 broadcast in the USA is about as likely as seeing Bigfoot.

      2. Michael (@freelittlebirds)
        26th October 2017, 2:51

        @eastman @slotopen I hope the commentators switch to ESPN from NBC just as they did from Speed. I’ve missed Bob Varsha but Leigh Differ has done a great job filling in for him. I cannot imagine F1 without them or Will Buxton.

        1. Michael (@freelittlebirds)
          26th October 2017, 2:52

          I meant Differ – darn touchscreen:)

          1. Michael (@freelittlebirds)
            26th October 2017, 2:52

            My computer is allergic to Diffey:)

      3. @eastman @freelittlebirds As it currently stands ESPN will be taking the Sky commentary as a world feed.

        ESPN won’t be producing any coverage of there own & will simply be taking the world feed from the 5 minute sting until the end of the podium. It’s going to be very barebones & no pre or post race coverage is currently planned, Same is true for practice & qualifying.

        It is unlikely to be ad free but may well use the side by side coverage during the ad breaks.

        1. Michael (@freelittlebirds)
          26th October 2017, 14:03

          @gt-racer How do you know that? I love the pre and post race coverage – I hope we still have them. Won’t they have their own commentary? They can’t just show the race without any commentary.

          1. @freelittlebirds

            Obviously, you’ll hear the Sky commentary with Brundle.

            1. Michael (@freelittlebirds)
              26th October 2017, 16:07

              @s2g-unit Should have read it more carefully :-) Still, I’m not sure I’m ready to part with the 3 Amigos and Will.

              I’m sure the Sky commentary is top-notch but there are millions of us who are used to a certain way of things.

              It’d be like watching a Barcelona or Real Madrid game without Ray Hudson…

            2. @freelittlebirds

              You’ll LOVE the Sky commentary. We are very lucky in Canada to have our channel TSN pickup on Sky Sports pre, post & race stuff.

              You’ll gain so much useful information during the race from Martin Brundle & you won’t get commercials for 5 minutes every 7 minutes…lol

        2. Starting with the Australian Grand Prix in March, all 21 F1 races will air live on either ESPN, ESPN2 or ABC, including every practice and qualifying session, totaling more than 125 hours of programming in the first season.

      4. Hopefully ESPN will replace NBC’s current crop of “experts”. Personally, I can’t stand Leigh Diffey’s hysterical outbursts, David Hobbs’s buffoonish mumblings and Steve Matchett’s clueless speculations regarding technical issues, sporting regulations and other F1 issues he doesn’t really understand.

    3. I don’t think I could ever consider Hamilton to be on the same level Schumacher was, and I doubt I’ll remember him as one of the greats. He’s a fantastic driver, when he’s fast he’s unstoppable, but the inconsistency and fragility he has shown over the years, less so this year, really detracts from that.

      It’s possibly an unpopular opinion here, but I hope you can see where I’m coming from.

      1. Roswell Stiles
        26th October 2017, 1:37

        “I hope you can see where I’m coming from”

        Only too well.

      2. What is a great driver though? is it the amount of titles, is it most wins, most poles? Is it all that but also the image they convey during their career? Its a tough one. i personally would have him up there no doubt. As great a Senna though? that im not sure about

      3. Hamilton would be a five or six time champion now if his wheel rim hadn’t failed @ Barcelona 2010, then in 2012 his mechanical luck just stank – without so much misfortune probably would’ve won that as well. Then the same happened last year @ Malaysia. I haven’t even mentioned his gearbox problem at the final race of 2007. IF he hadn’t been so unlucky, he’d more than likely be on the cusp of his 7th title and not 4th. And if second most race wins and most ever poles does not convince you, nothing will anyway.

        1. @shrieker Spot on. If Lewis isnt a legend then no one with under 62 wins is either. At worse Lewis should already have 4 titles. He was straight up robbed last year. 2007 saw Mclaren’s incompetence coupled with the FIA never allowing a rookie to win. 2012 Mclaren incompetence and reliability. Lewis has had soooooo much stolen from him and his records still transcend.

          1. Let’s just hope The Mercs are as competive next season.

            For everything said in favour of Schumacher, he also had a very reliable car under him.

            Hamilton will need that same measure of luck and support from his team, if he is to rewrite the record books.

        2. If we have to consider your ‘what if’ argument then we should also consider … “what If Senna had not died.
          Then these permutations would be endless.

        3. If if if… had things gone right for Schumacher in 1997, 98, 99 and 2006, he could have won those as well, but it didn’t happen. Otherwise you could argue that he’d be an 11 times world champion.

          Things go for and against you in this sport.

          1. Similarly, if you were to go down that route you could argue that Prost – who, oddly, doesn’t get a look in there despite his success and abilities – should have at least six titles to his name. As you say, those sorts of things can cut all ways.

          2. That would mean you’d have to let him off all the cheating of course

        4. I wish #F1F bans the word ‘if’.
          Hardly seen any constructive comment after that word.

      4. I think that Hamilton deserves to be up there with Senna and Schumacher. There were days when Schuey was off the boil so to speak (from memory), the same with Senna, I’m sure (I didn’t see him race). His high points and performances every year, 2009 for example in that poor McLaren, always made me think he was something special. The Mercedes domination of 2014-2016 may have given the illusion that anyone could have won those poles and races, but he had to beat a very good driver in Rosberg in the same car three of those four years. Unlike Schumacher in 1997-2005…

      5. You doubt you’ll remember him as one of the greats? He already IS one of the greatest formula 1 drivers to ever grace the cockpit whether you want to admit it or not. Michael Jordan will always and forever be the GOAT in bastketball (and as far as im concerned no one will surpass him, even with better statistics) but even I can recognize the sheer level of greatness that is Lebron James; at worst he’s the 2nd best player of all-time and I don’t like the guy. Lewis has earned the same respect.

      6. the inconsistency and fragility he has shown over the years, less so this year, really detracts from that

        Less so the past four years, perhaps.
        I’d also suggest not taking out another rival deliberately, and not deliberately stopping a qualifying session, both push him higher up the ranks of greatness than Schumacher. But each one to their own values.

        1. I think Hamilton’s fans/advocates should quit their feeling of guilt that Lewis has of recent been driving a fast Merc (2014 -16). I remember comparing Lewis’ productivity in 2012 (at the height of Vettel’s rule) and discovered his very high odds of scoring points at the time (0.77 for Lewis, 0.71 for Fernando, 0.70 for Seb) or reaching the podium (0.47 for Lewis, 0.43 for Seb, 0.41 for Fernando). If this is not consistency, well before joining Merc, what on earth are we looking for?

      7. Hamilton is on Senna and Schumacher’s level

        What a total and utter load of nonsense!

        Honestly, I really can’t stand all this nonsense! This year the Ferrari’s have clearly given Merc a run for their money, but the Merc is once again, and has been for a few races, a superior car. It has been the OVERLY dominant since 2014. The Mercs have basically been in another category to everyone else, and yet Hamilton get’s plaudits like he’s driving an inferior car and still beating everyone. TOTAL NONSENSE!

        People say, well, Bottas is in the same car and Vettel is beating him. Yeah, well Bottas is no Hamilton. There is NO ONE who has half a brain that could say that Hamilton would be this far ahead of the sister car if his team mate was Vettel, Alonso, Ricciardo or Verstappen.

        Hamilton is getting utterly flattered by the car and his team mate. The praise like he’s some kind of F1 God is stupid!

        1. So Schumacher wasn’t flattered by the Ferrari’s that dominated from 2000-04? Senna wasn’t flattered by the dominant McLaren’s? Fangio, Clark, Hill etc weren’t flattered by the dominant cars the drove?

        2. @nick101 Shut it already with your bias. First of all Hamilton owned Alonso as No2 rookie and that saved Alonso, had Alonso no No1 the first five or six races than Hamilton would win the WDC in 2007 against double WDC, Alonso was also gifted the Monaco win. Second. Vettel is no match for Hamilton, never was and never will be. Hamilton would decimate Vettel hands down, hence Vettel only want poor teammates. Hamilton would trash Verstappen in an instand too, your whole conclusion comes from your Hamilton hate/bias.

          1. The only pairing I’d like to see now is Hamilton vs Verstappen.

            Seb has lost the plot and Dan R isn’t Max.

            Max and Lewis are full on living breathing and existing race mode, the others appear to look at it as their job. Race over, job done, wait till they are next required to show their face.

        3. The person who is saying this, Massa, has a unique perspective and his thoughts carry far more weight than yours. Full stop.

      8. You speak of inconsistency & fragility, so how about this for consistency…

        11th season in F1 and has secured a pole & race win every year whilst driving cars like the 09 McLaren & 2013 Mercedes. Not even Schumacher was that consistent. If you assess are drivers entire racing career from the lower categories to F1, you’ll find none as successful as Hamilton.

        Hamilton is one of the greatest drivers to turn race in F1, and I can assure you that you will remember him when he’s gone.

        1. William B Davis
          26th October 2017, 10:12

          I’d say that if Hamilton is to be considered in this bracket, then Alonso must be too.

        2. Hamilton is a great driver no doubt but lets not pretend that the 2009 McLaren and 2013 Mercedes were awful backmarkers. While not ‘championship contending, they were both certainly competitive cars.

          1. I think you’ll find the Mclaren was over 2 seconds off the pace for at least the first third of that season.

            The first race in Australia both McLarens where ~2 seconds off the pace, qualified on the back rows of the grid and Hamilton made his way onto the podium. If that doesn’t tell you about Hamilton, nothing will.

            1. Not denying that in the first few races (where he finished 4th in Australia, not 3rd, I think you’ll find), the McLaren was crap. But once the upgrades game it was a multiple race winning car.

              All I was doing was refuting the point that the two worst cars Hamilton drove were somehow equivalent to awful back markers, which overall they weren’t.

            2. “(where he finished 4th in Australia, not 3rd, I think you’ll find)”

              No, on pace, he made the podium, he only lost that position because of another McLaren management problem, who insisted Lewis give the place back to Trulli, when in fact, he didn’t need to.

        3. @kgn11 — The OP is clearly having trouble coming to grips with watching his favorite driver slowly being eclipsed. However, your endless support of Hamilton is seeming to cause you to go too far the other way. I’m an MSC fan from long ago, but I agree with you that Hamilton is already amongst the greats, and will likely finish at the top of every chart there is. (Aside: It’s a bit sad (to me) given that MSC cannot attend races and “hand over” the mantle of ‘the greatest,’ so to speak.)

          As others have noted, the 2009 Mclaren was bad to start, but in the 2nd half of the season was upgraded and was one of if not the strongest cars finishing the season. That is not a ding on Hamilton, but let’s not pretend he won those races driving around in a VW Beetle. Likewise, the 2013 Merc was a pole and race winning car even without Hamilton.

          MSC had at least 1 win in 15 straight seasons before he helped develop the car that Merc grew to dominate the field. And don’t forget, to MSC’s credit, even after he won two titles he helped build the Ferrari dynasty, and they came out of retirement to help build the Merc dynasty. They were both struggling teams at the time and he helped change that dramatically. That is something we haven’t seen much of.

          Like I said, I agree that Hamilton will probably go down as the best ever. But there is no need to tear down another driver to build him up. Hamilton stands up next to the greats without exaggeration.

          1. I never tore down anyone, just merely pointed out the blatant double standards in the original argument. If Lewis is being flattered by his car, then the same can be said for all those drivers I mentioned, because they all won championships in cars that were as dominant in their era as the Mercedes is now.

            The 09 McLaren was bad car, as was acknowledge by the entire team. Sure it improved in the second half the season, but it was still a dog of a car.

            Just one question, why the need to say Schumacher helped to develop the 2014 car? What proof do we have that he did? He wasn’t there in 2013, so why the need?

      9. I’m going to disagree with you. Schumacher was a driver that got into his position because under the regulations then, he could practice and try new parts 24/7, often to the detriment of the other driver in the team. He also come race day frequently had difficulty setting up the car and could demand to copy his team mates. (then fly back to Italy for extra practice in a spare car). You can also add to that the tyre wars, where Bridgestone specifically made tyres to Ferrari’s (read Schumacher) demands even if the other teams on Bridgestone’s thought them cr*p.

        Schumacher would struggle these days because of limited practice, tyres and the requirement that his team mate needs to be a driver capable of podiums regularly, or else the team would not win the money prize the constructor’s championship.

        1. Thank you! Agree 100%

        2. Typical rant from a biased perspective. So Schumacher benefited from using testing that was completely legal, & you think this is a bad? Ferrari drivers have always had the benefit of Fiorano, up until the testing bans. Schumacher isn’t unique in this regard. To the detriment of his teammates, you say? Read Adam Parr’s book about Ross Brawn. Brawn had no sympathy for Rubens in this regard, and explicitly stated that when testing was necessary, Schumacher was ready and willing, and Rubens would head off to enjoy the day. Did Schumacher benefit from his relationship with Bridgestone? Sure. Was that relationship built on the fact that he was the strongest driver they were working with in that time period? Yes. It’s amusing that in a sport with the mantra that everything should be optimized to be the best that it can, fans are quick to demonize a driver/team combo that did just that.

          1. I didn’t say the testing etc. was bad, but it was an expense few other teams could match and therefore gave Schumacher a huge advantage.
            When Schumacher came back at Mercedes, admittedly after his best years, but he wouldn’t have done it unless he believed he could win, he finished behind Rosberg every year. And Rosberg was not a great F1 driver, he only won a World Championship because he was in the best car and his team mate had horrible reliability and he had access to Hamilton’s data.

            1. As you acknowledge, he was a shadow of his former self in the Mercedes years. The only thing that could be said that period in his defense is that he was on average a tenth quicker in quali than Rosberg in 2012. Doesn’t exactly make up for being much slower the other two years, though. I can see how people who dislike him can take the easy road & say that he was exposed by the testing ban etc. But I think it has much more to do with his age and his fractured neck. Personally, I don’t think he was as good after his broken leg, but that’s purely my opinion. My main point is that unbiased observers can see how quick he was in the years he didn’t have advantages. The advantages he had in the latter half of his original career were earned by being the best driver on the grid.

        3. And yet Schumacher and even Rosberg had a hand in developing the Mercedes to a dominant car in which Hamilton is now benefitting. A tad bit ironic.

          1. I think the word you are looking for is “hilarious” since the whole notion that Schumacher had anything to do with the current merc is just that.

            If you want to pretend that drivers are developing that car then how about Hamilton developing the car into taking 2 wins and propelling Mercedes to P2 in the WDC for his first season and the season after to P1. When all Schumacher managed in three years was to drop Mercedes from P4 to P5 in the WDC. If anything, Schumacher held them back.

            1. Exactly. To further your point, how many wins have McLaren had since Lewis left? Precisely zero.

      10. I agree however I’d say this season, he’s been as good as either of them ever were. He’s not had everything his way this year but he’s kept his head and has been unstoppable. He didn’t lose his head in Baku and when he lost the lead in Austin, he was quick to take the place back.

        I wouldn’t put 2008-2016 Lewis right up there (he’d be just below them) but this year, I think he’s stepped it up.

      11. Hamilton not on the same level as Schumacher? Well, Hamilton has never been known to deliberately crash into a championship rival, if that’s what you mean.

    4. I don’t rate Hamilton as a great like Senna or Schumacher.
      He has won (soon to be) three titles in one of the most dominant pieces of machinery of all time. His record against Rosberg was ok at 42-36 qualifying, but not great compared to what Senna did vs Prost (26 poles vs Prost’s 4!!!!) and Prost is considered one of the greats and Rosberg simply isn’t.
      With F1 being so car dependent, total wins/poles stats are misleading, its best to compare team-mates. His record vs team-mates is not fitting of a Schumacher or Senna. Rosberg caused all sorts of problems in 2014 and 2016, he was not able to outscore Alonso in Alonso’s poorest year and Button scored more points than him overall as team-mates, who again is not considered a great.

      1. Michael (@freelittlebirds)
        26th October 2017, 5:48

        Actually, the worst thing that can happen to a driver in F1 would probably to be Hamilton’s teammate. Even if you are as good as Senna or Schumacher and you had the team on your side and Lewis can’t start the car every other race and can’t qualify in half the rounds and his engine blew up every other lap, you’d still have a really hard time beating him.

        1. If you’re of Rosberg’s level. Who was beaten by Webber.

      2. Prost beat Senna despite being out qualified 26-4…

        Schumacher had obedient teammates, who weren’t allowed to challenge him nor were they allowed to see his data (Brundle). Had tyres made specifically for him, the list is endless.

        F1 has always been car dependent….

        07 was not Alonso’ poorest year in F1. He was a rookie & still finished ahead of him in the championship

        He beat Button 2-1. If you’re gonna use that, “he scored more points over a season” argument, Prost scored more points than Senna whilst they were teammates.

        1. Prost beat Senna despite being out qualified 26-4

          Senna had a huge amount of reliability issues leading to retirements the year he lost, not just the one that Hamilton suffered in 2016. Plus Prost was also a phenomenal racer, probably the best racecraft of any driver ever. No shame in losing to him.

          Schumacher had obedient teammates, who weren’t allowed to challenge him nor were they allowed to see his data (Brundle). Had tyres made specifically for him, the list is endless.

          Hamilton has had obedient team-mates as well, he had one when he won in 2008 and will have one this year. His team also supported him over his team-mates, see 2007 and 2014 Spa. Rosberg was fairly timid as well, whenever he got aggressive he got chastised for it. No surprise that LH is driving his best when he has a team-mate he can walk all over who seems to be a mental midget.

          F1 has always been car dependent….

          And Hamilton has had the most dominant one.

          07 was not Alonso’ poorest year in F1. He was a rookie & still finished ahead of him in the championship

          2007 was Alonso’s poorest year in F1. He made errors in Spain, Canada, China whilst completely imploding and falling out with his team. I’m not sure which other year comes close? He also struggled to adapt to the Bridgestones after driving his whole career in Michelins. A shocker by his standards.

          He beat Button 2-1. If you’re gonna use that, “he scored more points over a season” argument, Prost scored more points than Senna whilst they were teammates.

          Yes but Button isn’t Prost, secondly in 1988 it was the best nine results that counted towards the WDC so scoring more points was irrelevant that season.

          1. Keep moving that goal post

            1. Just like you.

      3. As33 You got it wrong mate. Button outscoring Hamilton ?. Have you actually seen the season or what ?, Hamilton in 2012 lost more than 120 points due the team and that’s how Button “outscored” Hamilton if you want to mention it. Button outscored Alonso in 2015 as well right ?. In 2014 it was Hamilton with more problems and not Rosberg, please get your facts straight. What about Schumacher with the best car and no competition and a team mates who all where No2 driver and you mention Schumacher as if he had to fight teammates as well, the double standard in your comment is pretty messed up. But that comes more from your dislike for Hamilton. Your comment is poor work

        1. Replace Bottas with Max and we will settle this.

        2. Button outscoring Hamilton ?. Have you actually seen the season or what ?, Hamilton in 2012 lost more than 120 points due the team and that’s how Button “outscored” Hamilton if you want to mention it.

          Bad luck is a part of F1. See Hamilton’s 2008 WDC and probable WDC this year.

          Button outscored Alonso in 2015 as well right ?

          But overall Alonso outscored Button and never had a season where Button legitimately better like 2011. No 2011, no Button scoring more points than Hamilton.

          In 2014 it was Hamilton with more problems and not Rosberg, please get your facts straight.

          Flat out wrong

          What about Schumacher with the best car and no competition and a team mates who all where No2 driver and you mention Schumacher as if he had to fight teammates as well, the double standard in your comment is pretty messed up.

          Hamilton had the team support vs Alonso and after the Spa 2014 crash Mercs back Hamilton and slughtered Rosberg publicly. If that is not showing preference I don’t know what is? Still didn’t beat one and only beat the other in the final round.

          But that comes more from your dislike for Hamilton. Your comment is poor work

          Your comment is an emotional response to someone not agreeing that Hamilton is one of the two best drivers of all time!! Not everything has to love him like you do!

      4. How is a great defined. By their skill in driving? Or their comparison to teammates? We never know if the whole field of drivers now is on a much higher level than back in the 1990s, and we will never find out. Who knows maybe even grosjean can beat senna driving the same car, or maybe even I can beat senna in a race.

        1. And also we would never know if Schumacher is actually slower than Rosberg and uses his age as an excuse

          1. @f1fan-2000
            It doesnt matter if Rosberg is better than Michael ever was. Its different times and Rosberg has to prove himself now and not in the past if he wanna be an all time great.

        2. F1 cars were a lot tougher back then so you would need more skill and strength to drive them, it was less safe and there weren’t endless run off areas like today. However todays F1 drivers are better athletes, have healthier lifestyles and diets but that comes with more knowledge and research into nutrition and health.
          One thing about Senna was he was the fittest guy in his era. His determination to physical conditioning was fairly revolutionary at the time.
          The only objective comparison in F1 is between team-mates, everything else is based on speculation based on knowledge gained by team-mate comparisons but that can fall flat due to driver form and experience. For example based on 2010-13 no one would ever believe that Riccardio would outscore Vettel or that Rosberg would get more poles than Hamilton.

      5. Very often, Prost’s focus was on race set-up at the expense of qualifying performance. He liked to take care of his car (engine, tyres, fuel, brakes …) during the first half of the race and then up the pace and attack his opponents when their car/tyres/… started to go off. Not saying that Senna wasn’t faster and that Prost didn’t want pole position, just saying that Prost wasn’t always aiming at pole position, which is why he’s probably no too bothered about his qualifying stats. (And I was watching F1 most avidly in the Prost/Senna days.)

        1. It was actually Senna who was better at nursing the car. Senna was also much more consistent in his lap times while Prost’s times were all over the place.

          Besides, in those days there was no single setup for both qualifying and race. They could perfect their setup all through qualifying and change it completely again for the race.

          So your story really holds no truth at all.

          1. @patrickl Generally Prost’s race pace was better than Senna’s, he usually chose better race strategies and he had fewer accidents. Overall I think Prost was better driver than Senna, even though Senna was faster over one lap.

          2. On your first paragraph, we’ll agree to disagree. In my opinion, an instrumental part of Prost’s deliberate and strategic approach to racing was his non-abusive driving style (preserving your car in an era when they broke down quite a lot is a smart move), coupled with the ability to put in consecutive fast laps when necessary.

            As regards your second paragraph, I didn’t mean that Prost’s set-up in qualifying was geared towards the race and that that compromised his qualifying. I meant that Prost often prioritised the race over qualifying and spent more time on finetuning his race set-up than his qualifying set-up.

      6. @ AS33

        he was not able to outscore Alonso in Alonso’s poorest year

        2007 was not Alonso’s poorest year. He just couldn’t handle a formidable challenge. In fact Hamilton outqualified Alonso and finished ahead in the standings (Ham 2nd and Alonso 3rd). The FIA regulations are clear- in the event of tie it goes back to countback. There are no “shared” championships in this sport. It’s the same thing when people set exactly the same qualy time- they don’t share a grid slot.

        Button scored more points than him overall as team-mates

        If you are going to use one statistic as the yardstick I could do the same. Hamilton won more races. F1 is about winning. Therefore it’s the number of wins that counts. See how that works? Swings and round abouts.

        Regardless let’s expose the weaknesses in that outscoring argument.

        To begin with- cumulative points count for the square root of jack beyond the contested season. The FIA regulations on that are clear.

        Secondly- that statistic is in favour of Button because it’s skewed by reliability. I am sure you will concede that reliability is not a reflection of driver ability- or are you one of those people who blame a driver for that too?

        Thirdly to get an accurate picture let us eliminate all the noise (reliability and accidents) and focus on a two car finish between Ham and Button.

        In a two car finish between 2010-2012, Hamilton finished ahead 23 vs 10 times. That generally states that all things being equal Hamilton had the beating of Button.
        In those 33 races that both cars saw the chequered flag between 2010-2012, Hamilton scored-
        545 points.
        Button Scored- 483 points.

        What does that tell you?

        Also until Hamilton and Button were team mates I had never seen team mates compared in this way.
        Prost outscored Senna yet that is never mentioned.

        In fact- even in Senna’s championship winning year, Prost scored more points but because of the best 11 rules at the time Senna was champion.

        Finally comes your problem with Hamilton’s “mental fragility”.

        Do you consider Vettel a great? If so what do you make of his mental fragility in 2014?
        What do you make of it this year with his brain farts in Baku and Singapore which played a critical role in the title fight?

        Do you consider Alonso to be a great? If so again what do you make of his meltdown in 07 because he couldn’t handle a rookie?

        Swings and round abouts- all the yardsticks you use to measure “greatness” fall apart when that logic is put to the test and there is a call for consistency.

        1. 2007 was not Alonso’s poorest year. He just couldn’t handle a formidable challenge. In fact Hamilton outqualified Alonso and finished ahead in the standings (Ham 2nd and Alonso 3rd). The FIA regulations are clear- in the event of tie it goes back to countback. There are no “shared” championships in this sport. It’s the same thing when people set exactly the same qualy time- they don’t share a grid slot.

          As I mentioned 2007 was Alonso’s poorest year in F1. He made errors in Spain, Canada, China whilst completely imploding and falling out with his team. He was not at his best at all and all things considered did a good job to get the same points as Lewis.

          Hamilton won more races. F1 is about winning. Therefore it’s the number of wins that counts. See how that works?

          I’m sure this may have sounded smart to you but you are talking gibberish.

          Secondly- that statistic is in favour of Button because it’s skewed by reliability. I am sure you will concede that reliability is not a reflection of driver ability- or are you one of those people who blame a driver for that too?

          It is also skewed by Hamilton’s performance in 2011.

          As this is a debate between Hamilton vs Senna & Schumacher, I ask, could you imagine either Senna or Schumacher being beaten over three years by Button, especially in as strong a car as the McLaren was. I simply cannot.
          I totally agree that overall Hamilton is superior to Button.

          Also until Hamilton and Button were team mates I had never seen team mates compared in this way.
          Prost outscored Senna yet that is never mentioned.

          Nope Perez and Hulk were, LH and Rosberg were, in face most drivers who were generally matched are compared over the period they are team-mates.

          In fact- even in Senna’s championship winning year, Prost scored more points but because of the best 11 rules at the time Senna was champion.

          As mentioned the 11 best results counted back then so Prost scoring more points in 1988 was irrelevant and skewed their total tallies.

          Finally comes your problem with Hamilton’s “mental fragility”.

          No idea what you are talking about here. Never once referenced Hamilton’s “mental fragility”.

          Do you consider Vettel a great? If so what do you make of his mental fragility in 2014?
          What do you make of it this year with his brain farts in Baku and Singapore which played a critical role in the title fight?

          Like Hamilton he is a great on statistics but I feel, like Hamilton his talent has been flattered by the car he drove between 2010-13, so overall he is a great but not up there with Senna or Schumacher (or even Alonso and Hamilton for that matter in my opinion).

          Do you consider Alonso to be a great? If so again what do you make of his meltdown in 07 because he couldn’t handle a rookie?

          He couldn’t handle a rookie? a myth. His behavior was poor and made mistakes but still he got the same points and wins and finished ahead of LH in races that year (10-7). He has made bad career choices since then which will have a detrimental affect on his legacy, when comparing him to Senna, Schumacher, Hamilton, Vettel etc. On track though he has been immense.

          Same with Hamilton. His speed, ability and achievements cannot be called to question. He is a great. I simply do not class him in the same bracket as Senna or Schumacher. I don’t think this is a controversial opinion.

          1. Ok, now i’m totally confused. What does Senna and Schumacher have that Hamilton doesn’t have for you not to put him in the same bracket?

            1. They’re white

            2. That’s a good question, and schumacher is my favourite driver of all time. I think hamilton lacks nothing that senna had, they’re very very similar, while schumacher undoubtely proved he was good at car development, by leaving benetton when he could’ve won 1 more year and going to help ferrari get back to the championship. I also think schumacher was generally more consistant, if you look at the early part of this year, hamilton had off races. I’m not sure about hamilton not being good at development however, unless he’s just lucky in career choices (opposite than alonso), somehow when he left mclaren it got worse, when he joined mercedes it improved.

              Also hamilton has never driven a very bad car for a decent period of time, there was only the first part of 2009 where mclaren was pretty bad but it improved drastically later on, schumacher and alonso proved to be particularly good at bringing cars that weren’t at the level of the competitors where they didn’t belong.

              But all in all I think schumacher >= hamilton >= senna, not a huge difference between any of the 3.

    5. Typical Massa. Always praising his own importance to the team and conveying he’s the right choice. Since 2011, all Massa has done is talk about how the rumours of him getting replaced are false and that he’s still an awesome driver. It’s expected that he’d put Kubica and Di Resta down. Maybe he needs to ask himself why Williams would want to test other drivers if Felipe was still such a ‘great’ driver.

      I think Massa should have retired last year itself. He adds absolutely no value to the grid is any way.

      1. Massa’s comments are a bit sad really – when I remember that send off in Brazil last year he got which was so perfect and filled with good-will along the whole pitlane, and this year he’s come back to scrape the bottom of the top 10 at best and try to cling onto the drive for yet another season by denigrating anyone else linked with it. I wonder at what point he tells everyone Pascal Wehrlein isn’t ready for it.

      2. He did retire last year. If Rosberg hadn’t thrown in the towel then Williams would have been fielding Bottas and Stroll. The only reason Massa is in the car this year is because they needed someone at very short notice to replace Bottas.

      3. Ben Rowe (@thegianthogweed)
        26th October 2017, 9:06

        Massa would very likely be ahead of both Force India drivers in the championship if not for his good luck. Both Ocon and Perez have made many more big costly mistakes than massa.

        1. Ben Rowe (@thegianthogweed)
          26th October 2017, 9:06

          If not for his bad luck sorry! :D

      4. Williams needed Massa back because they needed a constant variable while the car went through significant aero changes. It’s called ‘engineering’.

      5. Given that Massa says it himself that he doesn’t know how Kubica drives currently, it pretty much nullifies any significance his opinion on Robert’s driving might have otherwise had IMO @todfod.

        But yeah, my takeway form these words is that he knows they are competing for his seat and is sort of desperate to at least appear to have a shot at retaining it.

    6. I’m not really sure where to draw the line between ‘great’ and ‘lucky’ in F1. It’s hard to believe that there aren’t many other drivers who wouldn’t have the same number of wins and championships if they’d been in the same cars/teams as Schumacher, Hamilton and Vettel. All they’ve proved is that they were probably better than their teammates. F1 must have the shallowest pool of talent of almost any sport….

      1. Agreed. Especially with Hamilton and Vettel it has been right place, right time. Schumacher at least stuggled for four years trying to get the Ferrari at the front before he started dominating so it didn’t feel as hollow.

        1. Whereas Hamilton won easily when he first joined Mercedes?

          1. No, they needed an illegal Pirelli tyre test.

          2. @petebaldwin — I am decidedly not on AS33’s side here, but yes, Hamilton had it relatively easy in 2013. After 3 years of very spotty development, the 2013 Merc could set poles and win races (from both sides of the garage). So moving from a downward trending Mclaren team, to a single year of development in a car that could podium/win, followed by cars with 4(+?) years of utter dominance… that strikes me as quite a good position.

        2. Schumacher cheated though and for me one who cheats is not worthy. No different from drug cheats in tennis or athletics or boxing etc……

    7. I agree with Massa. Hamilton did it without No1 status unlike Schumacher for example who also had the best car, no competition, special tyre made etc. Hamilton simply is the best, hamds down. No driver on the current grid is a match for Hamilton. Hamilton infact should be on his 8th WDC actually was is not for the bad luck in 2007, 2010, 2012 and 2016.

      1. @noname I would disagree with your statement that no driver is a match for Hamilton. Moreover, that’s just how it works, amd I could easily sit here and talk about how Alonso deserves 6 titles, how Schumacher deserves 11 titles and how Raikkonen deserves 2 had circumstances been slightly different. Fact is, people tend to judge it all on who’s winning. Had Hamilton been driving at this level but in the McLaren Honda, and Alonso the one cruising to easy victories with the best car over the past 4 years, I’m sure this conversation would be different.

        1. @mashiat SPOT ON! I always say this about DOTW. The winner usully gets it for getting 75% out of his quick car whereas the guy who got 100% out of his slow car and finished 10th is ignored.

    8. COTD is spot on! I couldn’t agree more with it. +1.

    9. Hamilton’s doubters say that he has been in the most dominant car in history for four years now, so his championship wins have been easy, or against drivers such as Rosberg (who’s not considered an F1 “great”) and thus his status as “One of the greatest of all time” is overrated. Some take it a step further by claiming that he’s had competitive cars his entire career. Obviously, this is the perspective they’ve chosen to adopt and there’s nothing wrong with it, although personally, I can’t see how they can use his competitive machinery as a base to “argue” that had their favorites drivers (Vettel, Alonso, Verstappen, Ricciardo, etc.) been in the same car, Hamilton would have had a hard time keeping up. That is purely subjective and there’s absolutely no solid foundation for such claims.

      Anyway, let’s keep the fans’ opinions out of this for a moment. When the drivers, who have raced alongside and fought with Hamilton over the years, start hailing him as one of all time greats, there is an authenticity and a sense of truth to their words that pales the “strong” opinions of the common folk who have always only watched from the distance. They’ve been closer to him than any of us, and definitely know him better both as a person and as a driver. Out of his five teammates so far, three (Rosberg, Button and Alonso) have hailed him as one of the best ever, all three champions themselves (Rosberg even went as far as calling Hamilton “More talented than me” after retiring). Massa seems to have joined the party as well.

      You can doubt Hamilton as a driver, that’s entirely up to you, but always remember that there are people closer to him that have seen details you haven’t, and they have spoken.

      1. Well, Hamilton used to have many offtrack flaws.

        On track he is a tiny step better than anyone else.

        Nico Rosberg was easilly greatest ever nonchampion before he got a championship toggether.

        So Lewis did loose to teammates, but so did Senna, so did Prost… And against Nico so did Schumacher.

        Overall however he is firmly cementing his greatness with the level he is at right now.

    10. Roth Man (@rdotquestionmark)
      26th October 2017, 7:50

      Fastest driver I’ve seen in my time of watching F1. So that makes him a great in my mind. All geniuses are flawed, Lewis is no different, Lewis’ only perceived weakness can be his emotions at times, which I’m sure 9/10 are in fact his strength. I also consider Alonso a great as well, guess what…… also flawed.

    11. I’ll be honest, I’ve had it with Felipe Massa. His comments are sad and mean. He was supposed to retire last season, after realising he was no longer good enough. It was a beautiful moment, and we all felt he was retiring in style and at the right time.
      Now he’s back. And his form against one of the worst drivers in F1 is giving him the impression he’s still good enough. He’s getting mouthy and he’s getting in people’s way. But the situation hasn’t changed, he still is no longer a good F1 driver, in fact he’s pretty bad. He was supposed to leave F1 and now he desperately wants to stay. I can’t blame the man for wanting to remain in these amazing cars (and get a good salary), but he should have made up his mind to what he wanted, and not remain hanging around at the cost of Kubica and Di Resta, both of whom I fully trust to be better drivers at this moment than him.

      1. @hahostolze

        He only was going to retire because he knew Stroll would bring a load of money to the team and he also knew that Bottas was a fair bit better than him. I don’t think he wanted to leave the team. I doubt Di Resta or Kubica will be better. They both have no experience of the hybrid era and Massa is now very experienced in F1 as well as having 4 years at Williams. He’s looked stronger this year the last.

        I really think you are a bit mean yourself to say Massa is bad. On the whole, he has been significantly better than Stroll and I now think Stroll is decent, not poor. Verstappen, Raikonnen, Sainz, Vettel, Perez, Ocon, Vandoorne, Hulkenberg and possibly others too have all made lots more bigger mistakes than Massa during the race. I think myself that most of these drivers are better, but Massa has in a way been more solid and consistent than lots of drivers this year.

        He has sort of had a season like Verstappen in terms of bad luck although not quite as bad.

        In Australia, he finished a solid 6th. Behind the top 3 teams witht he drivers that finished.

        In China, well there, I can admit he was poor, but in my view it was only here and one other race where he clearly wasn’t decent.

        In Bahrain, he finished 6th again. Another solid race behind the top 3 teams.

        In Russia, he was on course to finish 6th easily. But then had a problem which meant he had to pit. He then finished 9th. So lost 6 points.

        In Spain, con cindering he’d been quite a bit quicker than the Force Indias recently, I am pretty certain he will have been ahead of both in the race. He qualified between the 2 and then got past them both at the start. He then had to take avoiding action when Verstappen and Raikonnen joined the track and he picked up a puncture. I’d say he’d have managed 4th here, but I think maybe one of the Force Indias may have got him back so lets say 5th. Missed out on 10 points.

        In Monaco, I think he got the maximum he could out of it. the Williams is terrible here and he managed to get a point.

        In Canada, he may have had a weak start, but then Sainz took him out. Williams was really strong here and he did qualify comfortably ahead of both Force Idias. I’m certain he’ll have got both of them later in the race in a similar way as Bottas jumped the 2 Red Bulls in 2016. I think he’d have managed a podium but I’m maybe bredicting a bit too much here as he retired right at the start. But I’d say 4th at the minimum. 12 points missed.

        Baku was one of Massa’s strongest races in recent years. His qualifying was not great though. But his pace was much better than Stroll’s. Each time the race restarted when he was still running, he took good oppertunities and got a few good moves done. He even very nearly got passed Vettel in a car that is nothing like as good as the Ferrari. He looked so strong here. Then his car failed. If Ricciardo actually was trying his hardest the whole race, then I am certain Massa will have won. I think Ricciardo could have gone faster so I’d say it is more likely Massa will have been 2nd. 18 points missed.

        In Austria, the Williams had their upgrade that appeared to take them both backwards. Taking into account both drivers appered to suddenly struggle to get much out of the car to me showed it was the car more than their driving ability. Massa recovered from 17th to 9th which certain’t isn’t bad.

        In Britain, The Williams team did appear to admid they hadn’t done agreat job with the upgrade. They both Struggled again in qualifying. Stroll 16th and Massa 15th Massa turned it round in the race to recover to a reasonable 10th.

        In Hungary, I don’t think we can take it against him that he wasn’t well enough to race here. However, Williams have always struggeled a huge amoutn here so I do think it is unlikely he would score.

        In Belgium, he struggled in qualifying again and started 16th. But he turned that into 8th. Concidering that the Williams really isn’t a top car anymore, a recovery like that isn’t bad at all. I think Massa gained more positions than any driver here.

        In Italy, Stroll clearly looked better than him in the wet, but he still wasn’t bad. During the race, I’d say Massa looked stronger. Was right behind him at the end looking very compettetive. Not his greatest race, but not bad at all.

        Singapore was the only other race I’d say he didn’t look good. Although I mainly think it was the teams fault for his very strange strategy. He did do some risky moves when trying to defend Magnussen, but it was fair and a good fighting spirit. But he did only have a Sauber finish behind him so I can’t say it was good.

        In Malaysia, Massa did get his by Ocon just round the first corner. This only cost him a couple of places but did allow Stroll past. Massa was within abotu 2 seconds of Stroll most of the race until towards the end where is got up to 7. Stroll on the whole did look better, but I can’t say Massa was bad.

        In Japan, Massa didn’t look perticuarly strong and he did loose a couple of places in the race, but still managed a point.

        In the USA, his strategy was rather unusual. I think he stayed out the longest out of anyone and it looked like he’d had it and would finish out of the points. But when he pitted, his pace was top form and he did several really good overtakes and brought home a solid 9th place finish.

        Massa has scored points in 11/16 races he’s been able to take part in. That would have almost certainly been 14/16 if he hadn’t suffered from bad luck in Spain, Canada and Baku. He is still no doubt solid and consistent and still had moments of brilliance. He is certain’t not a top driver, but for a team like Williams, I think he is just what they need out of the options they have. I’d only rate him just outside the top 10 for his performance this season. Last season, I think I would have put him below 15th as he looked a fair bit worse to me last year.

        If I add up the points I think I has missed out on, it adds up to 46. If I add this on, He would be ahead of Ocon by 9 points and only 4 off Perez. Considering Froce India has clearly been better than Williams for most of the season, I think this shows that on the whole, Massa hasn’t been bad at all. He’s easily good enough to deserve to stay in F1 in my opinion. We’ll just have to see what the team think.

        Sorry for my long comment, but I really think Massa should get much more cretit than many people seem to have given him this year.

    12. As a driver Hamilton is very much up there with Senna and Schumacher, but what sets him apart from those two is that he is unwilling to cross that un-sportsman like line, that is win at any cost. This point mars both Senna’s and Schumacher’s legacy in that they were quite happy to take out a rival (Prost & Hill respectively) if it meant winning a championship.

      Alonso, Vettel and now Verstappen all have that win at any cost mentality and they are the poorer personalities for it, on track Hamilton just lets his driving do the talking

      1. Yet he has more wins than all of them.

        1. Also had better cars than all of them.

      2. Probably a matter of taste, but I really like that killer mentality. And I actually believe Lewis has it as well. We saw a piece of it in Abu Dhabi last season.

      3. Oh come on, what about the time at Baku where Hamilton brake-checked Vettel and then veered his car into Vettel out of anger?

    13. Lewis now has a firm potential to become the greatest ever.

      This year second half of the season he clearly was. If he can perform at this level for a few more years, then he will probably go down in history as the greatest ever.

      Personally I think he surpassed Senna level by now. Only Schumacher was more dominant in general driver performance

      He has a real shot, even more important, if he keeps this up, nobody in this generation will be able to claim to have matched him and are automatically not greatest ever.

      As for Kubica, if he really drives onehanded… Amazing.

    14. Agreed. Especially with Hamilton and Vettel it has been right place, right time. Schumacher at least stuggled for four years trying to get the Ferrari at the front before he started dominating so it didn’t feel as hollow.

      1. Hamilton had the most fortunate career start (though deserved) of any driver I can think of and he delivered.

        But when the ruleset changed for 2009 he struggled in cars not quick enough to win the championship for 3 years, finally got a cat quick enough and was let down by reliability and operational errors. But he made enough of an impression that Brawn described him as the missing piece of the puzzle.

        Mercedes instant jump in form and continued rise coinciding with McLarens immediate drop and continued decline all coming with his switch isn’t just good luck.

        A driver may not be drafting wing designs, but they are the tool engineers need to get feedback and measure if their designs work. A driver like Hamilton is integral in developing a car.

      2. I tell you what did feel hollow. Electronic aids in his Benetton. The number 2 driver not being allowed to beat him – IN the contract. the whole team based round him and him alone. Crashing into drivers to stop them overtaking him. Bullying anyone who got in his way and calling ‘brake test’ on those who didn’t get out of it. A comeback where once he couldn’t test for 14 hours a day all he could do was trundle around 5 places behind Nico and occasionally try and drive someone into a wall. That feels hollow to me.

    15. Doesn’t sound like COTD has ever been to a race. I can tell you, the more they put on, the better. Monza didn’t even have beer tents, just a few stalls. Silverstone is probably the best and has been putting on stuff years before LM rode into town.

      1. It’s better if you’re interested in it, or if enough people who go to the race are interested in it to be worth putting on (and, in some cases, to compensate for losses elsewhere – the four-hour gap for the Justin Timberlake concert was aggravating from people like me – watching from TV and not planning for anything in the gap – but probably worked better for pop fans at the venue, or people who needed to do things in the interval worldwide).

    16. Wherever you place him in the pantheon, Hamilton will be remembered as extremely fast, superb at high-speed braking, a skilled racer, and supremely talented on wet tracks. Over the years he’s also added more subtle skills, including managing the car and race, remaining cooler under pressure, and making better decisions for the sake of a championship. Last year he still had one or two off weekends, performance blips like Baku that seem down to external distractions or some loss of concentration, but this year he’s been remarkably consistent, even when car setups have caught him out. The fact Alonso and Massa have just recently been speaking so highly of him as a driver presumably reflects a widespread opinion within Formula 1 that this has been one of his best, if not the best, season. For now that seems enough without having to decide on any overall ranking.

      1. but this year he’s been remarkably consistent

        No he hasn’t. Watch the first half of the season again.

    17. For me, without over analyzing and comparing to others too much, I can just simply say LH has just never enthralled me. I’ve simply never been able to get behind the guy. It hasn’t helped, for me, that he just barely squeaked in his first WDC on a weekend when, pressure at it’s greatest, it was actually Massa that stamped his authority on the weekend, while LH did nearly everything to lose it.

      His other WDC’s have come with only one challenger (not that that is unusual in WDC fights) a friend and rival who had not spent his F1 career until 2014, in win and WDC capable cars, whereas LH had the experience of always being in top 3 cars, amassing numbers and experience fighting at that level. And it hasn’t helped me that with the format of 2014 and 2015, cars running around at delta times, on gadget tires, the drivers more passengers monitoring systems than actual race drivers, it has been difficult to consider WDCs won this way as great feats.

      It’s certainly never been about numbers for me. I learned that long ago when we consider Gilles is amongst the greats and never got to win one WDC.

      Here I said I didn’t want to compare too much, but wrt this conversation I rank LH above MS because MS just had way more advantages hand over fist than any driver before or since, and was a bully to boot. Many drivers would have compiled the same numbers MS did under the same circumstances, only they wouldn’t have been bullies about it. Senna for me was an out and out genius…a flawed one at that, but just, for me, the greatest ever, a philosophical deep thinker who was born to do what he did. Extremely enthralling to watch on the track and listen to off it.

      1. Lewis is one of the greatest.

        Poor family, mixed race, started with RC cars, father worked many jobs, mom and dad broke up, champion in lower formulas, plucked up the courage to speak to Ron Dennis and got to Formula 1 against the odds.

        He grew up in the F1 spotlight, suffered splits with his father and long term girl friend, was treated differently and criticised more than any driver I can remember. Has raced and beaten 3 world champion team mates and never had number 1 status.

        Can be moody but show me a happy loser and I’ll show you a loser.

        Other than that he’s not great. Hamilton would not have been able compete with Schumi or Senna. Please note the sarcasm.

        1. As I said, for me I’m not feeling it.

          1. Feeling what? I don’t expect you to love him but be objective. The stats speak for themselves.

    18. His numbers in time, over history, will be unquestionable. Some people today are too busy being annoyed that he is beating thier favourite driver to objectively give credit where it’s due.

      Considering where he has come from, the place he is in now is inspiring. There is no doubting his raw talent. Unless of course, he’s beating your chosen one..

      He doesn’t need to look like you, sound like you or even dress like you – to be worthy of greatness. He simply has to win. And that is what he is doing.

    19. Comedy reading comments on here about whether Hamilton is on the same level as F1 greats of the past.

      I think I would trust the opinion of other drivers more than any opinion (including my own), but only when Hamilton retires will many of them speak on the matter. I’m not sure yet, but those that think anyone else could win in the mercedes this year should read the bottas article today.

    20. Hamilton is a great. Great performances, won a race every year, that debut season, 3 soon to be 4 time champ. Vettel also 4 time champ and 2 years younger than Hamilton. They will be level soon but Vettel has a few more years over Hamilton. Going to be great to watch if Ferrari can keep up current for or improve. Thing is I think Max is going to smash them all apart and break all the records over the next decade.

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