Lewis Hamilton, Mercedes, Autodromo Hermanos Rodriguez, 2017

Hamilton champion after clash with Vettel as Verstappen wins in Mexico

2017 Mexican Grand Prix summary

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Max Verstappen won the Mexican Grand Prix and Lewis Hamilton secured the drivers championship after he and rival Sebastian Vettel clashed on the opening lap.

Vettel collided with Hamilton at turn three at the start, leaving both cars damaged and forcing them both to pit. Vettel’s fourth place finish was enough for Hamilton to secure his fourth world championship.

Lewis Hamilton, Mercedes, Autodromo Hermanos Rodriguez, 2017
Mexican Grand Prix in pictures
Hamilton finished ninth, with Valtteri Bottas taking second place ahead of Kimi Raikkonen, who rounded out the podium.

In a dramatic start, Vettel led away but came under immediate pressure at turn one from Max Verstappen. Verstappen took the outside of turn one, which became the inside of turn two, taking the lead as Vettel ran wide and was passed by Hamilton.

Vettel then clipped the right-rear tyre of Hamilton’s Mercedes exiting turn three, causing an immediate puncture for Hamilton and front wing damage on the Ferrari.

Both championship rivals were forced to pit on the opening lap and resumed at the rear of the field, with Verstappen assuming the lead from Bottas and Esteban Ocon’s Force India.

Vettel was able to make good progress back through the field, but Hamilton struggled by comparison to make on the cars ahead, dropping considerable time for Vettel and being lapped by Verstappen on lap 22.

Brendon Hartley was forced out with an engine failure on lap 32, resulting in a Virtual Safety Car period that which Hamilton and Vettel both took advantage to switch to new tyres.

Vettel was able to make his way up to fourth place, behind team mate Kimi Raikkonen, but it was not enough to prevent Lewis Hamilton from being confirmed as the 2017 Formula One world champion.

Verstappen took the chequered flag to claim his second win of the season, ahead of Valtteri Bottas and Kimi Raikkonen in third.

Esteban Ocon took fifth for Force India, ahead of Lance Stroll’s Williams in sixth and Sergio Perez in seventh. Kevin Magnussen finished eighth for Haas with Hamilton ninth and Fernando Alonso taking the final point for McLaren in tenth.

2017 Mexican Grand Prix reaction

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Will Wood
Will has been a RaceFans contributor since 2012 during which time he has covered F1 test sessions, launch events and interviewed drivers. He mainly...

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196 comments on “Hamilton champion after clash with Vettel as Verstappen wins in Mexico”

  1. After a fourth Hamilton WC and another imperious Verstappen performance, forgive me for asking a question.
    Without wanting to sound like Vettel, ‘why do we drive here if the cars and power units can’t take it’, honestly!

    1. To me what sticks out is the prophecy. Yesterday I said Max should have gotten a penalty and that he was most likely to win, what it is now a contentious win. RB is now favourite for 2018, the new pu on Max is really quick, Lewis might be celebrating his last title. Seb should have been penalized for hitting Lewis and Seb as it happened, didn’t deserve any penalty for his Massa overtake.

      1. This is so bad. And you’re saying the same thing on another post, so I might as well respond on one. Neither incident was a penalty by a mile. To make this contentious without it actually being contentious makes no sense.

        1. @hahostolze @macleod Saturday, Max blocked Bottas, one penalty, Max might’ve won anyway, his pace in practice proves that. Seb after getting hit by Max’s rear tyre then ploughed into Hamilton’s tyre, that one is debatable, I’d penalize Seb.
          @anilsk2013 RB are the best at development, they are the most competent racing team and they have the best driver line-up, and now the new Renault PU (according to some figures, .2 quicker than the old Spec), is that last bit of performance they needed to be in contention.

          1. Seb getting hit by Max’ rear tire?

            LOL!

      2. This is an win on merrit plain simple! talks of penaulties were in Austin not here in Mexico.
        Max was really the fastest on track today question was more if his engine would fail…

      3. RB is now favorite for 2018 In the race that I saw today, most Renault powered cars failed to finish. It could just easily have been both RBRs as DNF instead of just the one DNF….Renault cars were on auto russian roulette.

        1. I think RB will be better next year than this, hopefully it will be a good tussle between the teams… But VER didn’t actually have to race anyone today bar for the first corner. 3 Renault engines expired during the race, how many during practise? Renault still have away to go, and while track position is still so valuable not being able to mix it with Merc & Ferrari on a regular Saturday will hamper RB in a true title bid.

    2. @hahostolze isn’t it plan to further reduce the number of engines next year? It will become more important to manage those properly than to exploit as much as possible out of the car.
      Introduce engines at right track for overtaking, instead of fuel saving it will be even more engine saving, without counting the extra penalties… Why bother with qualification anymore?

      All teams should agree to introduce a new engine at a given track, every driver has the same penalty to show what nonsense this has become.

  2. ‘OMG! Hulkenberg’s in 4th!! Maybe this is a chance to finally get that pod…

    Oh. Nope. Something completely out of his control has stopped him. Again. Yay.’

    In other news, Verstappen is arguably the best driver in the sport right now. Absolutely incredible how good this kid is.
    Vettel super drive as well. And those who’ve seen the image of him turning left into Hamilton need to watch the whole video, as he’s just catching the oversteer under traction, like all drivers do.
    Hamilton did very poorly. Definitely not the race he’d have wanted to win the title on… Although that battle at the end with Alonso was marvellous (albeit we knew what the outcome would be, but still).

    1. Verstappen is arguably the best driver in the sport right now. Absolutely incredible how good this kid is.

      This is of course, subjective.

      VERS is still a rough diamond at best with raw talent. He wouldn’t be winning the championship in the Merc with some of the silly mistakes he makes tangling unnecessarily with others.

      I see even in Hamilton’s moment of glory- you still find something to nitpick about. At least you’re consistent with that.

      1. You’re in for a tough decade I’m afraid…

        1. Mind lending me your crystal ball?

          1. Blazzz….to make remarks about a young, newish driver
            being ‘raw talent’ and even worse ‘rough diamond’ is
            to be expected of anyone new to F1…but I’m assuming
            you’ve been around for a while. And if that is true, how
            can you possibly use such language about a driver who
            accomplished the sort of things Verstappen did almost
            a year ago at Interlagos in torrential conditions. Where
            he passed so many highly experienced F1 drivers like
            they were twelve year olds. And that has been far from
            the only example of this drivers astonishing abilities.
            Most F1 fans who aren’t hopelessly biased recognise
            pure genius for what it is. Yes, he’s very young and still
            has much to learn. But he has the skills and temperament
            of a highly experienced thirty-year-old, so you better get
            used to watching him beat practically everyone else in F1.
            And…..for the record, I am no particular fan of Verstappen.
            There are other drivers who have my total support, but
            this guy is something else and we’d all better get used to
            the idea….fast.

          2. @ Loen I’ll explain my logic. VERS is blisteringly quick and obviously has talent. But there are situations he finds himself in that he could avoid. Like tangling with Massa in Monza for example. Or even with his victory in Malaysia- when he was lapping the squabbling backmarkers. Moments after passing them, they crashed together. Could have easily ended up being tangled in that and he loses the win. Or even in Canada this year where he and VET made contact. Could have ended his race right there. Or how about Hungary when he took out his team mate forcing a defensive that just wasn’t on?

            I am obviously focusing on his negatives here but I am not denying that he is a good driver.

            VERS reminds me very much of Hamilton in his earlier years. Very aggressive and very mistake prone.

            Simply put- VERS still has a lot of maturing to do- which isn’t surprising given he’s only 20 years old. But to claim “he is the best driver” at the moment when he hasn’t passed so many tests- like the pressure of an F1 championship battle, or World Champion team mates is quite simply a farce.

            Yes, he’s very young and still has much to learn.

            You even made my point for me but you seem to have an issue with the logic of my comment. Perhaps now that I have articulated it more we are in agreement?

      2. Agreed Blazzz, we can’t forget that half of his retirements were his own undoing and also like this weekend there were near misses. For his future I just hope that the stewards have the strength of containing the favouritism, because about last weekend, Max is totally wrong, he cut a corner, he didn’t run wide he straight lined a corner.

        1. It’s a pity when a straight solid win is stained with old news that is at least very subjective to say the least.
          And, no his retirements were for the most part technical issues and struggles with Bottas to name one. Only his Hongary action was stupid and his one mistake this season.

        2. I’m really not sure why you bother watching Formula 1 @peartree, you seem to have absolutely no idea.

          Max is the current future, there’s no one currently racing who could live with him in the same car, except possibly Alonso.

          1. @nvherman “bother” it’s no bother to me, I watch f1 since I can remember. Max is the present, he has been since his debut, since that FP1 in Suzuka back in 2013, or even before when he and Ocon were racing in f3, that’s what got him on RB’s track. Anyway there’s some reality checks to make, he blocked Bottas he shouldn’t have started from the front row, and it’s not like that would’ve kept him from winning, considering his pace from Fp1 to Sunday he was the quickest, and he might have won, but the right way.

          2. Can I just add that I love the phrase ‘the current future’ ? I made a note of it and I’m going to use it more often in conversation.

        3. Penalising your favourite driver doesn’t automatically mean the stewards are disregarding the facts and engaging in favouritism. Accusing the stewards of favouritism every time they penalise your favourite driver, on the other hand, does automatically mean you’re disregarding the facts and engaging in favouritism.

    2. Hamilton did very poorly.

      @hugh11
      I’m intrigued to know your reasoning behind this. Care to elaborate?

      1. I doubt he had damage, and he was stuck behind the likes of Sainz, Wehrlein and Alonso for quite a few laps, even when the car ahead didn’t have DRS, while Vettel was easily scything his way through the field. Also, after being lapped by Verstappen and Bottas, if he was driving well, he’d have easily been able to keep up with them, but he didn’t.

        1. His diffuser, well a quarter of it wasn’t there on the right hand side, so he most certainly did have damage!

          1. Wasn’t watching to see that. My mistake if so. Still, would’ve expected him to do better. You can’t deny it wasn’t a poor race by his standards.

          2. I’m not going to judge how good a race he had in the damaged car because I have no idea if he got every last iota of performance it had to give or if in Valtteri’s hands it would have been on the podium. I just try to enjoy the race for what it is, I watch Eastenders if I want some human drama

        2. Haha. I’m watching Sky right now. Ted’s just shared a photo of Hamilton’s damaged diffuser. Half a piece is missing. It’s not like you gave Ham the benefit of the doubt did you. But that’s hardly surprising. Discuss :)

          1. Well I wasn’t watching that, and I judged from the fact Vettel’s wing only made contact with his tyre. :)

          2. No need to be snarky and arrogant! :)

          3. @ Hugh- to be fair you make it very difficult given you don’t even try and hide your bias without considering some factual basis. You immediately thought Hamilton was just having a mediocre drive which is out of character- after an accident. I say my “snarky remarks” or “arrogance” as you put in this case was justified.

        3. I doubt he had damage

          @hugh11 It’s been confirmed with photo evidence he had damage on the right side of his diffuser.

          There’s no denying Vettel cut through the field more effectively than Hamilton, but given their respective time lost from lap one, the damage Lewis was carrying and the widely known fact of Mercedes finding it more difficult than Ferrari behind traffic, I don’t think it’s fair to make a direct comparison between the way they both advanced through the field.

          Not to take away from Seb though, he did put up a thrilling fight.

          1. After the puncture I think Hamilton intended to manage his tires and go for a one-stop. He only started to push after he remarked on the radio that his tires would not last. That’s when Mercedes went to plan b.

          2. We must remember that after their respective first lap pitstop, Hamilton was 24 seconds behind Vetted and carrying a damaged car.
            Vettel rejoined the track and could immediately start racing the slower cars, Hamilton had to burn tyre life to get close to the cars ahead.

        4. That’s funny– everything you said tells me that either Hamilton suffered a pre-race concussion and forgot how to drive a race car quickly, or his car had damage.

          Given we didn’t see Hamilton take a blow to the head, but we did see Vettel break off half his front wing in Hamilton’s rear tire, and that Hamilton had to drive 2+ miles back to the pits with a busted tire, it’s pretty much an absolute certainty that Hamilton’s car had significant damage after lap 1.

    3. Hamilton must have had damage to his car. I’m sure we’ll hear that later.

      1. Alex McFarlane
        29th October 2017, 21:12

        Ted took a picture of Lewis’ diffuser, it was missing a chunk on the right hand side. So his car was probably missing a small but significant amount of downforce.

        1. Diffusers don’t give downforce directly, but clear the air as quickly as possible. Damage to the diffuser affects all the downforce generated across the whole car, he would have had a high pressure “bubble” under his right hand side, affecting his grip too

          1. That’s nonsense! The diffuser produces downforce

          2. A diffuser on its own does not produce downforce, no matter what speed you blow air across it, unlike a wing. However, it increases the amount of downforce produced by every downforce producing component on the car, even the rear wing, so in that respect, sure it – to a layman, produces downforce.

    4. @hugh11 I’ve seen the replay, Vettel had plenty of room, if he can’t control his car he should be driving in karting despite his four titles IMO.

      1. @abdelilah

        Vettel already had wing damage, which would have produced understeer.

        1. @aapje @abdelilah That’s Seb’s only excuse. This kid has the “Ricciardo” effect on Seb, he just can’t be seen racing around him, he loses everything.

      2. Opposite lock, missing part of his front wing, and the rear end going walkabouts (which the driver can’t control).

        1. @hugh11:

          Opposite lock, missing part of his front wing, and the rear end going walkabouts (which the driver can’t control).

          (Emphasis added)

          I’m not a big fan of “what ifs”, but what if Vettel had, for the sake of argument, closed his throttle just a little instead of trying to carry on regardless? As I’ve been told in track day briefings, the throttle goes both ways.

          1. True, but I’ve seen that Hamilton had to lift off slightly behind Verstappen, so Vettel would have thought Hamilton was going full throttle and there would have been space. Fine margins on lap 1 etc

      3. Seb has been scrappy for a while now, on the other hand Max is looking more poised while keeping aggressive. If Red Bull keeps the pace and irons their reliability issues they will be fighting for WDC and WCC next year.

    5. Some days… I love F1. Hamilton’s move on Vettel on lap 1 was bold and audacious. It was good racing. He could have slipped into a safe third and bored us all to tears… but he went for it… and created a fascinating race when it didn’t work out.

      The tension was excellent. Vettel charging, Hamilton (having lost much more time doing most of a lap on a flat tyre) struggling. Both drivers deserve to be recognised as being the greats that they are.

      As for Verstappen… brilliant… he will dominate in the not too distant future, and will probably bring about Vettel and Hamilton’s retirement! I can only hope that Occon is a worthy challenger in future world championships!

    6. Vettel again misjudged the aggression and lost his chance of second, bashing Verstappen and then Hamilton with a ‘Rosberg special’ on his back right tyre. Make it of you want, but again a lack of calm decision making that cost him and Ferrari the title.

      1. GtisBetter (@passingisoverrated)
        29th October 2017, 23:01

        To be fair, if there was a time to be aggresive, it was today. In front of hamilton, many points behind. He hit the kerbs, couldn’t control anymore. Can’t blame him for trying all or nothing.

        1. He was on pole, at a track where overtaking is difficult. Aggression was unnecessary.

          1. Vettel had nothing to lose in going for it, such was his high need for high points. Aggression is exactly what was needed particularly when Max got a tow on him and took him on the inside. Backing off and getting swallowed up by LH too, was never going to extend his WDC chances, slim as they were. The one who could afford to back off and stay out of it was LH, not that I would expect him to do that either. Pure racing incident and ridiculous for anyone to call this SV’s fault. Several seem to be doing so, with the luxury of hindsight of course.

      2. @david-br SV’s title hopes were extremely slim, and depended much more on an LH dnf than anything he was going to be able to do. I think it is a bit much to ask for ‘calm decision making’ at a frenzied start with Max throwing a wrench into SV’s start by taking him on the inside with a tow. At that point SV had one decision to make…go for it. Odds were already highly against him and all he knew was even a win or second place still depended on a rare LH or Mercedes falter. If anything it was LH that was in the more ‘calm’ mode and could have stayed out of that tussle, stayed healthy, and cruised to the WDC, leaving SV to the hard work that he had no choice but to do, especially upon witnessing Max take SV.

        1. Sure, I agree he had little to lose (which is why his collision with Hamilton was, well, ‘not unexpected’, let’s say, rather than deliberate). Hamilton I think started with the intention of keeping third and seeing how the race pace panned out, but when VET and VER tangled and space opened up, he had to go for the pass. As Wolff said, rightly, if you back off in those moments, worse can easily happen (others behind going for that gap etc.). And Hamilton didn’t do anything wrong. Vettel’s lack of control, for whatever reason, caught him out. And to be honest Verstappen got lucky that he picked up no damage.

          1. Vettel’s lack of control, ‘for whatever reason’ is obvious isn’t it? Max’s brilliant move and the contact between them. I get that backing off can get you rear ended, or swarmed, but I don’t know that it applies with what LH’s options were. Without ‘backing off’ he didn’t have to be as aggressive either, and he did end up having to back off of Max, which probably helped catch SV out as he was trying to come to terms with his out of shape car, post-Max, while trying to accelerate and not get swarmed himself. I’m not saying LH did anything wrong, as he could afford the risk, but he also had a lot more choices yesterday than SV had, so he could have been more mindful and a bit more ‘Prost-like’ too. But, like is often the case, LH couldn’t have known he was going to get hit either…he just increased his odds of it is all.

  3. Congratulations Lewis! Hopefully next season will be much tougher with the added competition of Red Bull and McLaren! Come on Red Bull, McLaren and Renault, let’s make the 2018 title battle even better with more contenders, so much so that we actually don’t end up having to talk about the Halo every weekend.

    1. For the reasons that you have mentioned @mashiat, I’m anticipating 2018 to be electric!!!!! I have to mention that 2017 has been ace too. The battle between Vettel and Hamilton has been seismic! Sure they didn’t make it til the last race but it has been back and forth all year. Vettel made mistakes, Hamilton deserved it more. Next year has the potential to blow this year out of the water. Beyond exciting!!!!!

  4. Interesting how hard Alonso fought the overtake by Hamilton. I think that it was personal…

    1. @aapje I tough the same, there was something special about how hard he fought Lewis.

      1. It was fantastic to see. I think Alonso knew the cameras were on that one. Great racing that.

    2. Not sure Alonso had to fight hard since he could have had a better chance with overtaking Magnussen by hanging behind Hamilton. It was a fair fight as well between two and more importantly Hamilton didnt go off the track to overtake alonso unlike “Golden boy” had done before.

    3. @aapje You are seeing things that doesn’t exist as Alonso is always a nightmare to pass. And here he had more pace than usual so it was worth a fight. It was good and fair though, perhaps the nicest scrape of the race. Kudos to them!

    4. I like to think it was just a message for next season… ‘I haven’t forgotten how to race, see you soon’.

      But equally, it could just have been Alonso being bored and wanting to have some fun fighting against a guy he never usually gets anywhere near.

      1. *never usually*

        not since he beat him using the 7th best car at Hungary 2014, no

        1. Well, he did beat him in Hungary 2015.

    5. I just took it as a compliment, someone for Alonso to really race with. And that if Hamilton is going to win another championship, he should earn it.

    6. Alonso was trying to score more points and also compare the relative strengths of the 2 cars.
      He was still fair.

  5. Congratulations to Lewis Hamilton – 4th World Drivers Championship.

    …..even after Vettel crashed into him AGAIN!!!!!!

    1. Certainly a Germain thing to crash into championship rivals.

      1. Yes it definitely reminded me of another German driver, that wouldn’t mind pulling dirty tricks too.
        Come on Vettel I thought you were better than this (but not really).

        1. somewhat mistified by that comment… ;)

    2. @stubbornswiss i dont know how FIA still allows Vettel go scot free on an event like that (and all before)… Ham overtook him fair and square and he just couldnt keep it clear… He bumped into one car, racing incident, next car damaged, no penalty… Ham have received harshest of them all before, in singapore with massa, he got penalty, where as webber hit him, gone away scot free… people at fia really hate Ham i think… if he hits anyone like that, he gets a penalty… if anyone hits him, they go scot free! ros at spa vettel at baku and singapore, wth is wrong with FIA seriously, Fan U Charlie!

    3. After COTA I thought it was very clear that you couldn’t overtake with all four wheels outside the track limits without getting a penalty.
      I guess I missed the sub-clause that says ‘except if it’s a Ferrari doing the overtaking.
      SV was clearly well the other side of the white lines when he passed FM but not even a hint of the stewards looking at the incident.
      The variability of rules application is making it really hard to maintain an interest in F1.

      1. Felipe Massa apparently lost the rear and was going to hit Seb, in the process Massa pushed Seb out of the track.. and Vettel was ahead anyway.. Massa did a stupid dive

      2. @ceevee Yep saw that aswell, not even investigated…

      3. He was pushed off the track in the first place after being ahead, then he turned back onto the track instead of just cutting the corner, effectively lengthening the road for him. Hardly worthy of a penalty.

        1. The rules clearly state that you can not leave the track at any time. Vettel would have to have ever given the fight up on that corner if there had been a wall there so he gained an advantage too.

    4. And overtook another car while off the track… Tell me again how that was not gaining a lasting advantage?

  6. Congratulations Hamilton and Mercedes. And Verstappen, superb race, double points for ignoring all the Renault engines blowing up around him.

  7. Great performance by Hamilton, dirty move by Vettel, he had plenty of room I still don’t get why he pulled such amateur move knowing what he had to lose.

    1. Please no, he clearly had … oh, look at your username.

      And I think there also was a concertina effect with Verstappen not accelerating as fast, so Hamilton couldn’t get on the power as early.

      The thing I saw in this accident is: We need narrower front wings again (and more simply).

  8. Well done Lewis, not the race you wanted today but congrats on the 4th world championship, roll on number 5 !

  9. Alex McFarlane
    29th October 2017, 20:59

    Get in there Lewis!

    Not the race anyone wanted today, would have liked to have seen Lewis, Seb and Max battling it out up front, but neverless Championship wrapped up for Lewis, and probably the best of the 4 in my opinion – fortunate in that Ferrari had some reliability issues but otherwise he has driven well throughout this year and the Merc wasn’t 30 seconds ahead of everyone else like 2014 and 2015 – it has been genuinely fought with Ferrari and later on in the season Red Bull.

    1. Not the race anyone wanted today

      I guess I’m ‘not anyone’ then. :-)
      If I can get a race in which neither driver plays a role from time to time, I’ll take it.

    2. Not just Ferrari issues but better issues as well. Today is another prime example of him losing unnecessary points

  10. Did anyone else see the desperate Hamilton fan trying to run alongside him and literally running over a fat guy coming the opposite direction? Ouch. Must’ve hurt. Hilarious! Congratulations to Lewis! Thrilling race.

    1. It seemed like he was trying to get an autograph or something. As if Lewis was going to stop and sign something for eBay.

  11. We have just seen the dawn of an era and the beginning of a new glorious era.

    Congratulations to Lewis Hamilton on a fourth and well deserved World Championship.

    Congratulations to Max Verstappen that is ushering in the new era of F1. There is no doubt he’s now the dominant force in F1. Imperious performance, the clash between Hamilton and Vettel didn’t matter at all for the win. Verstappen would have dominated them both completely today. He has in reality clearly been the best driver for the last four races!

    1. I thought the same.

      Vet 4th, Ham 8th and taking the championship. Ver dethroning both at the start and never looking back. It feels like this is his real breakthrough and the takeover of a new generation, with Ocon, Stroll and Leclerc also coming to the front.

    2. I’m a Verstappen fan too, but come on, though his talent is in no doubt, the biggest questions are yet to come: what about when he has things to lose (rather than just win at the tail end of this season). He could afford to be aggressive, even to the extent of ignoring the engine risks today and not taking it easily. We need to see him competing under pressure for the title.

      1. I think he had proven that already in his karting years. Max feels no pressure. That’s one of his greatest qualities.

        1. Maybe not, but that doesn’t mean he’ll win a championship that way. In Mexico it could have been him taking damage. I’d put him in the same bracket in skill terms as Hamilton, but the problem is someone like Vettel or Massa ruining your day when you try to go close racing with them.

          Hamilton yesterday did the right thing, stayed away from both at the start, but when they tangled and he was running faster, he could only go for the pass. Again it was Vettel’s ‘clumsiness’ (best case scenario) that ruined Hamilton’s race. So Verstappen isn’t excluded magically from having to calculate these risks if he wants to win a championship.

      2. @david-br I get the feeling that Verstappen will be uncompromising even in the midst of a championship battle. Will be great to see Hamilton, Vettel, Verstappen and Ricciardo battling at the front in the next few years though

        1. @3dom I think you’re probably right. We’ll just have to see if being uncompromising pays off. One thing’s for sure. if next season is like the end of this, Verstappen will be a major problem for Hamilton and Vettel after their fifth.

  12. i think anyone that thinks vettel did that deliberately knows nothing about racing, he was turning right to avoid contact for crying out loud.

    http://oi67.tinypic.com/f9dz0g.jpg

    1. No sane person accuse Vettel doing it deliberately, but many people say he’s driving poorly. When someone enter the turn on the most inside part of the track and hit someone on the most outside of the track, that’s really poor driving.

      1. @sonicslv I think he could have avoided that crash specially if he already brushed Max rear tyre, he could have done better to be honest but I just think that it was a desperate move trying to get hold of something about to get lost, I’m sure Vettel will not admit this during interviews, he is a saint, he does not do mistakes .

        1. @abdelilah Could he avoid contact? Definitely, since there’s a lot of room and time to react. Did he deliberately hit Hamilton? No, it’s silly and Vettel has much more to lose*. He just trying to get back to speed ASAP after his contact with Max, only taking it too far. It’s not desperate move, just poor driving.

          *It’s silly to think Vettel planned this or has an a-ha moment right after he saw Hamilton passing by. First, deliberately making a puncture to another car and go away unscathed is almost impossible to do and even then you can bet all stewards eyes will be looking at you. Second, having any damage to a car is affecting Vettel more than Hamilton. He need 2 wins and 1 2nd position with Hamilton basically DNF at remaining races, what he can/should do it getting a win here. At that time, he already have front wing damage from contact with Max, which probably he can live with until the scheduled stop. Triggering a sure need for front wing change in first lap is suicide, Hamilton DNF or not. And by then Renault engine woe is not in consideration yet, he can’t be sure to have easy time passing Max, Bottas, Ricciardo, 2 Force Indias and 2 Renaults and he need to pass at least all of them but one to get 2nd position he need to keep the championship alive (assuming Kimi will give his place voluntarily). Even if we assume Vettel/Ferrari want to play dirty, they should use Kimi to do the shenanigans instead of Vettel.

    2. Do try to resist posting stills and slomo’s to make your point. You’re spot on, but Vettel was turning right to get round the corner, he was sawing at his wheel and any idiot could post a few frames earlier to make it look like he was turning into Lewis. The reason why he was sawing at his wheel, as they all did around there was because he was trying too eek out the last of the grip. That’s all, a simple racing incident. Almost a textbook racing incident!

    3. Isn’t that picture after contact has been made? I don’t think we need a still shot to see how clumsy (but not deliberate in my view) that bit of driving was by Vettel. Just watch the video.

      1. It was bad driving by SV. He knew he had front wing damage. He would have known it would be sharp as a result. He could very easily have avoided the contact with Hamilton if he had wanted to. He stuck the wing “out there” and hoped for the best. Split second decision by SV. Deliberate? Well deliberately didn’t avoid the contact, in my opinion.

    4. Stills never tell the truth. Only complete footage form different angels does.

    5. A motorsports fan
      29th October 2017, 22:06

      in time order;

      1 – vettel damages his left front wing when he hits the right rear tire of verstappen
      2 – hamilton uses the ves-vet duel to overtake vettel, who is now p3
      3 – vettel punctures hamilton’s left rear tire and damages his front wing further

      at 2 vettel is looking at a possible pitstop, but hamilton is P2, championship likely over.
      at 3 both need a pitstop – hopes alive.

      somehow hamilton manages to slow down a fraction to avoid hitting the back of verstappen, but vettel fails to provide the same reaction. if unintentional, driver error. given the circumstances i say – only vettel knows, you can’t know.

      ‘turning right’ need not be enough to avoid a collision. there are two pedals that can be used to avoid collisions too.

      1. +1 A dab on the brakes and there’s no collision. Of course Vettel getting front wing damage ruins his chances too, but in that split second, does he decided to just graze Hamilton’s tyre anyhow? Put it this way: there’s probably a reasonably high statistical chance that he could (like Verstappen) escape damage and Hamilton get a puncture, meaning he’d then have a good chance of finishing first or second, at worst, with Hamilton maybe zero scoring. He needed that kind of luck to win. So it may well have been a roll of the dice by Vettel to see what happened.

        1. Knowing SV was the one that had to risk it all, LH didn’t need to get in that fight. He could have just let Max win him the WDC who had already put SV out of shape and behind him after T2. He could have let those two finish their tussle and settle in, and then sat there in third looking and waiting for opportunities…or not…he could have just cruised it. Not his style? Ok that’s fine, but he put himself in harms way when he didn’t have to. Perhaps he felt he could afford it and just wanted to win the WDC with a race win. I get that too.

        2. A motorsports fan
          30th October 2017, 15:05

          “but in that split second, does he decided to just graze Hamilton’s tyre anyhow?”

          personally i don’t think that he did that cognitively. but i do think that the circumstances had to do something with his refusal to lift the gas a bit and found himself on the wrong side of a gamble he would not make otherwise.

          1. I go with Hamilton on this occasion. As the new champion said, “it is quite easy not to hit each other” and Vettel had the whole width of the track bar about 3ft, as Hamilton had 2 wheels in the run off. Yes, Vettel clearly knew exactly what he was doing. Remember Schumacher deliberately driving into hill 1994? Again split second decision but unarguably was deliberate.

      2. Hamilton had a poor judgment in putting himself on point 2. Vettel chances were already zero at the beginning of the race, even winning it. The only thing Hamilton had to do was to finish the race. What did he instead? He went in the middle of the battle of Vettel and Verstappen. Vettel had to take any risk, because he could not settle. Verstappen wanted to win the race (as he always does). Vettel had poor driving in other races this year, and there he lost the championship, this time he had no other choice but to try to overtake Hamilton.

        1. Hamiltons judgement was fine. He was clearly second. No question. If you delay at the start you will be swamped by the midfield. The result of the collision was it finished Vettels hopes completely to prolong the title race. It was Vettel judgement that was impaired in firstly hitting Verstappen and then hitting Hamilton from behind. His remaining hope was gone at that point.

  13. Lewis Hamilton… 4 time world champion. What an achievement. Congratulations to him and fully deserved.

    I am sorry but Vettel tried a Schumi on Hamilton there after a dreadful start. In my opinion he drove straight into Hamilton’s tyre. He didn’t try to avoid contact at all.

    From there Hamilton’s race was compromised but who cares? He beat Vettel in a dog fight this season. Keeping his cool when Vettel had meltdowns in Baku and Singapore. Winning through great defensive driving in Belgium and calculated under pressure in Spain and Austin. Picked his battles carefully too like Malaysia vs Max. Then capitalised on VET’s unreliability to the maximum. This is a more mature and complete Lewis Hamilton. Respect

    1. Nah not a Schumi that wasn’t really deliberate

  14. I would like to see a frame by frame. That was after the contact

  15. Screw Liberty, FIA whoever is responsible for TV feeds. No Austrian anthem for Red Bull, no interviews with the three drivers on the podium, greyed out national flags. What the heck? I’ve been following F1 for 64 years. I’m in an “upper income” bracket for their advertizing. For their total disrespect of my favourite sport, I am now going to start campaigning against ALL advertizers on Liberty. I rarely get angry, but this one has got my goat. Maybe the younger generation are happy; if they’ve got the money to support Liberty — good luck.

    1. @paul-a It happens from time to time… A few weeks ago Leclerc was crowned F2 champion with… the French anthem instead of the Monegasque one. He looked somewhat baffled. I personnally think that national anthems are a bit archaïc and could be removed altogether. Now if at least they could get those right it would be nicer :)

    2. I heared the national anthem of the Netherlands followed by which i think was Austria and the flags were then correct lichted as the were black in the begin.

    3. Who is your local TV provider? I think they have taken the main feed and removed most of it by the sounds of it. I was watching on RTL, and despite the plethora of adverts I saw all of that.. and the dreadful rotating podium + baffled drivers.

    4. Genuine question, why are flags and songs that important to people? I understand being miffed at the lack of podium interviews, but it’s not as if each driver in the entire field isn’t currently giving interviews to every channel whose language they speak!

    5. The Austrain anthem was straight after the Dutch. Quite similar; you might have missed it.

      Flags weren’t greyed out for me. Optometrist?

      Interviews were on track before the ceremony.

  16. You Go Shave-z
    29th October 2017, 21:13

    Congratulations to Lewis Hamilton on a well deserved fourth title. Well done to Mercedes too.

    Vettel lost the championship when he made some silly mistakes in the second half of the season and to lose such a big lead is not very becoming of a driver of his status. Even today Vettel lost his head and crashed into Hamilton.

    I have also held my tongue on this but looking back at last season, doesn’t s it look much stranger now that a car as reliable as the Mercedes had so many faults which affected just one car almost exclusively ?

    I think if there is anything he could have done differently in his career it would have been to win the championship in his rookie season, that I reckon would be almost an unbeatable record. Despite this Lewis Hamilton is amongst the best ever !!

    1. No, it doesn’t seem stranger that Mercedes had less failures so far this year. They openly stated that their main priority (PU-wise) was reliability over the winter.

      1. You Go Shave-z
        29th October 2017, 21:45

        In 2016 winter testing their car was near perfect, but from the first race one car started experiencing persistent problems including the same failure over two consecutive races. If anything with regulation and engine changes the car should have been less reliable this season.

        Strange

  17. Well done Lewis, this is deserved!
    Vettel lost it all again recklessly on the first lap even though it was almost already a done deal. Karma.
    I hope next year will be an interesting championship!

  18. Great start by Verstappen getting the tow from Vettel and great positioning by Hamilton through those first corners.

    In the end we had Vettel and Verstappen contact, small contact between Verstappen and Hamilton followed by Vettel and Hamilton contact.

    Racing incident that could have resulted in any combination of front wing and tyre damage, to any of the drivers. Hamilton came off worse with a puncture and rear diffuser damage (Ted Kravitz managed to get part ferme pics on his phone).

    Great drive from Max unleashing the pace the Red Bull has shown all weekend, and thankfully the Renualt PU survived!

    1. I have seen it from every angle now, and aside from Paul di Resta noting it, I have not seen the Verstappen/Hamilton contact. Not sure it actually happened.

      1. Verstappen and Hamilton didn’t happen it was close but missed.

        1. That’s what I thought personally

      2. @hahostolze @macleod Verstappen/Hamilton did make slight contact just towards the exit of T3. The slight damage it caused to the endplate is why Mercedes changed Hamilton’s nose at his 1st stop.

        You can see it more from Vettel’s OnBoard than Hamilton’s.

        1. Will have a look, thanks

        2. @hahostolze @macleod You can see it in the image below, A bit of debris is already coming off & when you watch a video of it you see a bit more fly off over the next few frames.

          https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4454/37969311106_1c40738961_o.jpg

          1. Thanks! Was Sebs steering askew again, or was he…
            Nah, he would never hit Lewis on purpose.

          2. I couldn’t see anything in that video. Where are you seeing debris?

          3. if the video shows anything, vettel trying to aim ham’s car for damage, you can clearly see it… he had plenty of time and space to do it, but he chose to go left in the last sec and tried to make it look as if he was trying to avoid it after he hit him!
            this is silly… even with slight front wing damage, ham would have continued, but that hit at the back was deliberate! watch vettel’s steering, he goes left hits ham and tries to go right… if he deems innocent, this guy has serious mental and eye issues… dont know which is more serious?

          4. Looks like Seb steered deliberately into Hamilton but we’ll never know.

  19. I don’t believe for a second that Vettel tried that deliberately.

    I think that as Max was squeezing Lewis, Lewis made a bit of contact with Max (Which damaged his front wing which is why Mercedes changed it at the stop) & lifted off & at the same time Vettel had hit the inside kerb & got a bit sideways which put him right behind Lewis so that when Lewis lifted off to avoid Max Vettel was too close to be able to react in time & clipped him.

    As soon as it was clear contact was going to be made Seb turned fairly hard to the right & clearly lifted off so was clearly trying to avoid it & like Martin Brundle said in commentary with contact like that the risk of damaging your wing tends to be higher than the chance of puncturing the other guys tyre.

    1. 100% agree with you. Lewis backing off to not hit Max just caught Seb out. Just an unfortunate racing incident that has sparked a few cynical comments.

    2. Just poor driving them

    3. Agreed. Great analysis.

      1. Fair assessment.

        But remember there are anti Vettle and anti Lewis fans who are quite mental about their heroes.
        Overall the imperfect start of the race for the WDC turned out to be rather good and tensed, as Lewis had a broken diffuser which slowed him down but still he managed to overtake (also Merc is not good at following). Poor Vettel, it was impossible to be 2nd let alone win the race. Nevertherless I enjoyed the race very much.

        The stadium section was very fitting for the WDC wrap up.
        CONGRATS to Lewis for his maturity and taking the 2017 crown.

  20. Verstappen very well done. Leaving aside he has won all his races this year when one of the contenders got knocked out, he did his job. If Danny Ric keeps screwing up, RBR have a very tough relationship in sight if these two get in the mix.
    Looks to be Danii needs a new driver seat or Max is – by law of crystal ball coincidence – the new.. better… version of Romain Grosjean.

    1. Sundar Srinivas Harish
      30th October 2017, 0:24

      How did Daniel screw up?

  21. Can I just say, what a nice moment it was when Seb pulled alongside Lewis and gave him a clap on the cool down lap. For every hot headed moment he’s had in his career, he’s also had many many moments of extremely good sportsmanship!

    1. This. I was so disappointed by Baku. All season long it looked like this was a showdown between the two best drivers in the field, respecting each other and loving the fight. It soured a bit, but great how that went down.

      1. Michael (@freelittlebirds)
        30th October 2017, 0:09

        Yes but he had ruined Lewis’s race for no reason at all. Yes it was gracious but it’s so hard to have any iota of respect for Vettel after he did that.

        1. well, that is your choice. the way you chose to see it.

  22. Just like to pop in a mention for Ocon and Stroll – great job by both..Also a shout for the much maligned Kevin Mag, a good result for Haas in a generally poor weekend.

    1. Absolutely @baron. Ocon has been one of the stars of the season.

  23. I did not get to see the race unfortunately. Well done Hamilton 4 times F1 champ.
    Well done Verstappen a good win, that upgraded engine obviously doing it’s job. Was Vettel up to his usual tricks at the start again? I can’t imagine Hamilton wanting to get involved with argy bargy at this point.
    Ricciardo must be a bit miffed with a grid penalty, not a great qually and a new engine broken straight out of the box. So he will get another engine and grid penalty for the last race?
    Happy days….not.

  24. Why didn’t Ferrari ‘retire’ Kimi to move Seb up a place? I wasn’t able to see the race today, but if Seb arrived behind Kimi before Ham passed Alonso, shouldn’t Ferrari have engineered a swap?

    1. They would have been ready on Kimi’s radio on the last few corners if necessary.

      The funny thing for me was Mercedes not telling Hamilton to just hold 10th. Bear in mind, the only way of Vettel getting 2nd at that point was through Bottas or Verstappen DNF, but that would move HAM up to 9th anyway which is all he needed.

      Pleased they didn’t though. That Alonso scrap was fantastic to watch.

    2. No point if it wasn’t going to change the championship result. That needed either Verstappen or Bottas to retire, or both, or at least a safety car to put them back in range for Vettel.

      1. @john-h @david-br, thanks for that. I’ll try to watch the race tonight.
        Next question is whether Mercedes will try to pull Hamilton back to allow Bottas to win and pass Vettel in the Championship.

        1. I imagine so if they can, it depends whether Bottas can make up enough speed, he’s been a long way behind in a lot of races.

  25. Califormula1fan
    29th October 2017, 22:13

    Congratulations to Lewis Hamilton for his fourth Drivers Championship: winning on the track against a rival team makes it all the sweeter.

    That said, I am amused by the “Greatest of all Time” talk about Hamilton that I see going around. First, the “Greatest of all Time” monicker can only apply with the unspoken qualifier of “so far”, and when viewed properly with this qualifier, Hamilton does not yet meet the bar as “the Greatest of all Time so far”.

    Quite simply, I would choose “winning” as the metric: In total races won, Schumacher still holds the record. In championships won, again Schumacher is the leader. If we look at “winningest”, or percentage of races won, then Fangio holds the record. Lewis does hold the record for most polls, and from that perspective, he is the greatest of all time at winning poll, which is a significant driver achievement.

    Sure we can extrapolate, and things look promising if all goes well and the competition doesn’t catch up, but Formula 1 racing is a team sport, and there are some pretty good teams and drivers on the grid that look to be able to challenge Lewis and his Mercedes. After all, Bottas is no slouch in a Mercedes, and Verstappen’s Red Bull did very well with the fourth (from 17th) last week, and the win today; and didn’t Verstappen beat both Merc’s in another race recently? Vettel and Ferrari look to be able to challenge again next year, and Alonso is going to be driving, what is assumed to be, a much better McLaren in 2018. Lewis could win it all again next year, but he could also very well end up in fourth behind a blisteringly quick and aggressive Verstappen, and a pair of worthy rivals in Vettel and Alonso. Other than a couple of very dominating races this year, the Mercs looked vulnerable, and even Hamilton’s undeniable quickness in qualifying hasn’t always turned into a victory on race day. Greatest of All Time, so far, is something to hope for as a Hamilton fan, but he’s not there yet.

    1. I don’t generally disagree with what you are saying, but I guess if we do differ it is that I don’t rate greatness in F1 strictly by numbers of wins or WDCs. I take into account the era and the degree of difficulty as well. Or that for example many consider Gilles amongst the greats without having won a single WDC, and having only won a handful of races. It was his utterly endearing hard charging, never give up, always go for it attitude that was so thrilling and enthralling to watch.

      Sir Jackie Stewart was just asked by Sky ahead of the race who he thought was the all time greatest. It is subjective enough that he still struggled a bit to answer, I assume because there are many angles from which to approach that question. His answer was Fangio followed by Clark.

      When I ponder the question I think about degrees of difficulty a lot. Past generations truly risked their lives and had to have far far tougher skin, and have a It-won’t-happen-to-me attitude or they wouldn’t have been able to sit in the car, so unprotected were they in a crash.

      I consider MS’s advantages hand over fist greater than any driver has ever had before or since, and I have only disrespect for his bullying on top of said advantages, so it is hard for me to consider him a great, in spite of what should be a no-brainer given his numbers. I also consider the current generation so safe from harm, and especially when trundling along running delta times as passengers subject to tire temp windows, able to lean on DRS for easy passes, that it is hard for me to think of WDCs won lately as great feats.

      1. Califormula1fan
        30th October 2017, 20:09

        In that case, there is no objective measure, and the moniker is meaningless. Hamilton is the greatest of this year.

        An underlying assumption is that there was sufficient competition amongst cars and drivers in every era to bring out the best every year. This is helped along by having two nearly identical cars from each team. There are few slouches driving in post 1960 F1, and even Fangio had competition. Having watched every possible F1 race that I can find online, I’ll say that Senna was probably the most aggressive and quickest driver of all time, Prost the most consistent, Schumacher the luckiest. Alonso, Hamilton, Vettel and Verstappen belong in that category, although Verstappen has yet to prove he can win consistently.

        Since Senna and Hamilton will never be on the same track in identical cars, greatest of all time should probably be relegated to the pile with unicorns and big foot: mythical at best.

        1. Califormula1fan
          30th October 2017, 20:48

          I would love to know who Niki Lauda thinks would win in the race of the gods?

          Could you imagine Fangio, Ascari, Hill, Clark, Stewart, Lauda, Prost, Senna, Schumacher, Alonso, Hamilton, and Vettel: equal cars, open track qualifying, and 60 laps around Silverstone. Dream on.

      2. Drivers didn’t have that much thicker skin, don’t forget it was those very same supposedly thick skinned drivers who have brought the vast majority of the safety features the cars currently have. They also used to not race if they felt unsafe an awful lot more, and their cars were significantly slower

  26. People calling others crazy for thinking there’s a chance Vettel did it on purpose, obviously don’t have a clue about F1. The whole history of F1 is littered with examples of underhand driving between WDC contenders, as well as on the technical front.
    So already we have an “established” “tradition”, and it’s not that uncommon.
    Add to that Vettel’s general behavior in the similar situations in the past, and you have a pretty good reason to at least think twice before dismissing it as just-another-racing-incident.

    I personally think he did it on purpose, although not premeditated.
    I think he was either gonna go for the win and hope for the best, but when he lost the lead, and perhaps saw damage on his front wind, he regressed into his default, not-so-bright, mode of thinking he usually falls into in this type of situations.
    He was in third, Hamilton in second, and he had a front wing damage. So in that split second, when the opportunity arose, he decided that his best chance is to inflict an irreparable damage to Hamilton by puncturing his rear tire (as these kind of incidents often damage the car a lot), and/or damaging his rear, and/or hoping he Hamilton spans out due to a punctured tire.
    At that split second, when he was already third, behind Hamilton, he had nothing to lose and everything to gain by damaging his rear tire and, as it turns out, the diffuser.

    You may agree or disagree, but you can’t say you haven’t seen in many times before in WDC showdowns.

    1. It was obvious that when Lewis got in front CRASHTTEL he had no choice but to try and do a Rosberg on Lewis. Vettel is a very dirty driver the evidence is clear from Baku and seems to have taken lessons from Schumacher. IMO he does not deserve another WDC.
      Toto Wolf revealed that Mercedes have been working on next years car for many months now and it could be they are still very much ahead for 2018. I hope RedBull overtake Ferrari and take the challenge to Mercedes. Redbull will be a great car but they will still be down on power compared to Merc.

      1. I’m sure the tainted view of SV you hold won’t be swayed, but you know there’s a big chance that SV, the 4 time WDC, is much better than you give him credit for. No driver is perfect, and most fans pile on select instances and add them all up into something…that’s natural…we all do it.

        So aside from the fact that we all knew, especially LH, that SV had no choice but to win, of course he was going to go for it with little to lose. Max getting that tow and brilliantly taking him on the inside made for abnormal lines for SV to take, and it remained that he simply could only go for it anyway.

        LH in the other hand was the one with the luxury of not having to win that race. He is the one that put himself in harms way unnecessarily. But he probably figured why not, he had plenty of points cushion to play with. SV ended up in some trouble thanks to Max, and had to just go for it. LH could have sat back and accepted third after the first few turns, and lived to go after both Max and SV during the rest of the race. Knowing what SV had to do to survive, LH didn’t need to be in that battle at that particular time. He saw an opening when Max took SV on the inside and moved SV wide, but he (LH) didn’t have to jam himself into the mix, especially knowing Max had put SV out of shape.

        1. To quote… well you, in this very post; Lewis Hamilton is a four times world champion, and there is a big chance he is much better than you are giving him credit for.

      2. Michael (@freelittlebirds)
        30th October 2017, 14:10

        @robbie Lewis’s move was fantastic and he pulled back because he knew Verstappen would crash into him. He also gave Vettel most of the track by literally hugging the kerb but Vettel didn’t care one bit – I’m pretty sure Kvyat and Maldonado would have avoided that one. Even Rosberg might have thought that running into Lewis would be a bit too obvious.

        But we are talking about a special driver in Vettel – the guy’s only response when another car is around him is to crash into it or push it into a wall. And then he had a fit about Massa where Vettel literally drove as if he was the only car on track and Massa reminded him that there were 2 cars.

        1. Of course your take is going to be as skewed as anyone’s. Eg. How would Max ‘crash into him’ as the guy fully ahead of LH? I wouldn’t expect anything less from such a die-hard LH fan. The nerve of Max getting in LH’s way like that. Lol.

          LH put himself aggressively where he was the one that had to prevent himself hitting Max. Putting himself where he had to back off from hitting Max from behind, probably contributed partially to him getting hit by SV. LH made a choice to go for it when he didn’t have to put himself in harms way. Not saying that was wrong except when it wasn’t necessary given the big picture of what little he had to do yesterday to secure the WDC. In hindsight it was riskier than needed be, but LH didn’t have a crystal ball and I’m sure he was, like all of them, just trying to own the real estate…he just didn’t have to this time.

    2. +1. Spot on comment. Sadly I think although Vettel is top notch driver, he does believe that hitting other cars is OK, at least in the moment. Thinking of Baku, his post race interviews said everything as he wouldn’t even acknowledge i
      t. He is too old a leopard to change his spots now. Like MS and AS before him. All fantastic drivers with ingrained tendency which cannot be overcome.

  27. LEWIS!

    Very happy. Sebwith questionable spatial awareness yet again. Yes he was oversteering but he also hit Max first.

  28. Roth Man (@rdotquestionmark)
    29th October 2017, 22:38

    Red Bull should employ Kyvat as a cleaner or something just to sack him before every race to ensure Verstappen wins. Re-employ him before the next race rinse and repeat. You’d have to say Kyvat’s contribution to the team has been amazing in that respect as a sacrificial lamb.

  29. Califormula1fan
    29th October 2017, 23:45

    I can say with great confidence that the primary goal of every driver on the grid is to WIN THE RACE. Max, Seb, Lewis, even Fernando, every week, they are driving with intent to win. After ‘97 I’m sure that FIA made it clear they will strip your points if you intentionally crash your competitor to preserve points leadership. They would probably take a similarly dim view of intentional actions by any leaders at this stage of the competition.

    Vettel was most certainly attempting to put himself into a position to win the race; as was Max and Lewis.

    It is rediculous to think any driver would toss millions in incentive bonuses into an incinerator in the second corner of a race out of spite.

    No upside, all downside for Vettel: it is pure fantasy to think that Seb wasn’t just simply driving competitively.

  30. Ferrari International Assistance, FIA, turning a blind eye again… to Vettell playing bumper cars..

  31. Michael (@freelittlebirds)
    30th October 2017, 0:04

    Congratulations to Lewis!

    Good job to Vettel for ruining the race – next time they should let Lewis race on another continent to give Vettel enough room to avoid hitting him! Vettel would race so much better if they had a category where he was all alone on the track!

    1. Califormula1fan
      30th October 2017, 20:12

      That’s called Q3.

  32. Congratulations to Lewis, thoroughly deserved!
    As for Vettel, he did nothing to avoid the contact, from his onboard is clear. It’s not that he did it on purpose, but he could have done a better job avoiding it.

    1. but he could have done a better job avoiding it

      @edmarques That in a nutshell has been Seb’s downfall this year. Baku, Singapore, Malaysia and now Mexico.

  33. Well done to Hamilton and Mercedes. Would of thought this championship is much sweeter seeing Ferrari had the better all round race car this year. They’ll be hard to beat again next year im tipping

  34. Well done Lewis. Congratulations for winning your 4th title. Looking forward to another 3 titles by 2021.

  35. Congrats Max.. I think a bit premature on the “this is his era now” comments. His win was made easy by his main race win rivals lose bits of their car: Vettel tangling with Hamilton, and Hamilton not having half his diffuser. We’ve seen him win races, now let’s see him challenge for a championship.

    Speaking of which, congratulations to Lewis! I think it’s deserving him and Vettel have 4 WDCs side-by-side. Both are the drivers of their generation.

  36. The Vettel incident..

    1) SV clips the back of MV and sees debris from his wing flying up, he knows a pit stop is inevitable
    2) LH passes him around the outside, that would see his championship over for sure
    3) Split second decision, his wing is toast, why not ensure LH has to pit also?
    4) He drives heavily into the Mercedes, this destroyed what remained of his LH winglet, it wasn’t a light touch
    5) He puts that to the back of his mind and drives like a man possessed to get back into contention
    6) The race ends and he has failed, damage limitation mode kicks in
    7) SV applauds LH on the slow down lap, he’s a sportsman /sarc/
    8) SV says it’s all about LH in his C4 post race interviews, cleverly steering the conversation away from the first lap incident

    He’s Machiavellian.. Schumacher-like even, and the stewards buy the lie every time

    1. Agreed @Frasier, an obvious cheat move. It shouldn’t be a surprise as Vettel holds Schumacher in such high regard.

    2. @frasier Your nr 1 is already flawed, so I ignore your 2 up to 8. Yes Verstappen and Vettel touched, but it’s very questionable that the wing needed replacement at that point, let alone that Vettel knew he had to pit.

      1. @matthijs go and look at the MV contact again, there is a huge spray of debris from SVs wing, he most definitely would have seen this. Whilst he didn’t know how bad his damage was, he needed a car that could get past LH, not trail in behind him, that was no good to him, instinct kicked in and he did the dirty move to hobble LHs car.

        Some drivers are like this..

        1. @frasier Well at least there’s no doubt as to your bias.

          1) Max brilliantly uses a tow and takes SV on the inside of T2, putting SV out of shape.

          2) Knowing SV’s desperation for a win, and that he himself can cruise to the WDC, LH puts himself in harms way anyway, and has to back off from hitting Max from behind, while SV has to go for it while recovering from the effects of Max’s brilliant move on him. LH could have just held back and watched Max win him the WDC. Not in him? He’s a WDC level driver after all? True. But he still put himself where he didn’t need to be. Sound like using the luxury of hindsight? Perhaps. He couldn’t know he was going to be hit. But LH had all the time in the world ahead of the race to know all he needed to do was keep it clean and didn’t need to put himself in harms way.

          1. @robbie there’s not been any doubt about who I rate since Lewis surgically sliced past two other cars at Copse three abreast in a GP2 race in 2006.

            In essence it appears that you think Lewis first off shouldn’t have been racing. Seriously?
            Then you’re suggesting he braked or lifted off to cause Vettel to ram him from behind. I seem to have heard that one before, it was wrong then and it’s wrong now – unless of course you have information that the rest of us don’t?

          2. @frasier So far off the mark. What does ‘Lewis first off shouldn’t have been racing’ even mean?

            And where did I say LH lifted to cause SV to ram him? Boy oh boy you’ll just read whatever you want to hear obviously.

            Once again, I suggest that LH didn’t need to get into that mix, from a WDC standpoint. But he did, he saw a gap and went for it, which put him up Max’s backside, which then caused him to have to back off or hit Max, and that backing off might have made it harder for SV to miss him. No blame on LH. He didn’t do anything wrong from a racing standpoint. I merely question why he decided to get in that mix when he didn’t need to from the Championship standpoint.

          3. You said it a great deal @Robbie after Baku, even after the stewards said that he didn’t and even after the released footage showed the same. Still, Im so very glad you confirm above that being a 4 times world champion gives a driver the benefit of the doubt against internet commenters, i would encourage you to apply thst same thinking to your own constant, wierd critcism of Lewis

  37. @frasier Nice explanation, this Vettel is a pure genius thinking and analyzing all of that in 60m which is covered by less than 1 second of time in F1 cars. He can process events faster than any genius known to human history, and all of that while trying to take turns and fighting with his car.

    1. @cacao Do you race/kart yourself? It doesn’t sound like it. Anyone with a modicum of racing experience knows that was a dirty move.

      1. So…nobody within F1 has a modicum of racing experience then. You obviously don’t, so where are you getting your opinion from?

        1. I’d guess nearly everyone in F1 knows that was a pro foul and yes, I have a fair amount of racing experience, no biggie.

  38. Califormula1fan
    30th October 2017, 20:29

    Game theory time: 1. if you win this race you win 1 Million Euro, being in P1 after turn 4 has a pv=900K Euro, P2 pv=90,000 Euro, P3 or less is pvP5 in this race and your opposition doesn’t finish, you preserve a 5% chance of winning 10 Million Euro (pv = 500K Euro) 3. If you intentionally crash your opposition your pv on the 10,000,000 goes to zero and you risk losing a chance to win 1,000,000 in the next race.

    What is the maximum strategy at turns 1,2 and 3? It is simple, fight for P1.

    Some fans think the goal was preserving the WDC leadership for Hamilton. He has 95% chance of winning WDC with any strategy, but his DNA and contract incentivizes him to WIN the race.

    Vettel knew the WDC was all but over in Japan, but he is a F1 driver: they drive every corner, every straight, every battle, every race to win.

    Don’t believe me? Watch Q3 in Brazil. Hamilton will be driving for P1.

    If you follow F1 purely for the WDC result, you will miss the game that is going on. Winning the race this week is the essence of the sport.

  39. Yes and using too much throttle also produces understeer. These guys can understeer a car to centimetres of track limit and do it every corner, every lap every week every month every year. Their abilities to position a car is just so far removed from you and I. Understeer is both the mechanism to do it and the excuse. I think we all acknowledge SV is a fantastic driver who can position a car within millimetres time and again. Sorry, for me was deliberate, I have no doubts.

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