In the round-up: Ferrari’s chief executive officer Sergio Marchionne has said it will not stay in F1 unless it approves of its new owners’ plans for the sport.
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Ferrari Threatens to Quit Formula One Over Engine Rules (Bloomberg)
"Sergio Marchionne said the Italian supercar maker 'will not play' unless it’s provided with 'a set of circumstances, the result of which are beneficial for the maintenance of the brand in the marketplace and to strengthening the unique position of Ferrari.' Dropping out of the racing series could eventually be beneficial for Ferrari results, and 'we will celebrate until the cows come home,' Marchionne said Thursday on an analysts’ call."
Ferrari chairman issues quit threat over Liberty’s F1 plans (NBC)
"I don’t want to prejudge any of this. We’re walking into this meeting next Tuesday with the best of intentions, we’ll see where it takes us."
Perez: Force India must drop team orders now (Autosport)
Otmar Szafnauer: "It's better for the fans if they are allowed to race, but at the same time car parts aren't cheap."
Honda explains Mexico performance gains (Racer)
"We think that our engine performance at high altitude is not much worse than at lower levels. So everybody should lose some power at altitude, but our level of power loss was not as big as the other manufacturers I don't think. So that's why we were competitive."
Leclerc heading for F1 with grief and pride (Reuters)
"If I go eight years back in time, the mental side was probably a weak thing that I had. Now it has probably become my strongest point."
The Secret Life of... Max Verstappen (F1)
"Q: When was the last time you were really angry? MV: A few days ago. I think it might have been in the US..."
Alonso explains how Hamilton excels against other F1 champions (Crash)
"Lewis is one of the champions who has been able to win with a dominant car, like the last three years, with a good car, like in 2010 or 2012, and with bad cars like 2009 or 2011. Not all the champions can say that."
Verstappen: Hamilton-like domination better than battling for wins (Motorsport)
"It’s pure instinct. I have never done that (thinking about what to do at the start), not in karting either. My father has never told me how to do a start either. So it’s just pure feeling."
Ferrari: Race to Immortality review – doesn't get under the hood of Formula One (The Guardian)
"Where August’s probing Williams did so much to separate the fragile man from the fast machine, Goodrich’s more misty-eyed, nostalgic endeavour never really gets under its subject’s hood."
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Comment of the day
The only way forwards is backwards, right? @MazdaChris offers a tongue-in-cheek ‘vision’ for F1:
1 – Get rid of all wings, downforce, streamlining, in fact bodywork of any kind. No downforce, no aerodynamics. After all, aerodynamics are for people who can’t build engines.
2 – Limit tyre width to three-and-three-eighth inches (I’ll have none of this modern metric crap, thank you very much), cross-ply only.
3 – At least 3,000 horsepower, from naturally aspirated two cylinder engines powered by coal-water slurry. One exhaust pipe per cylinder, must be oriented vertically, with a standardised, FIA-mandated rain flap available during wet weather sessions. Pushrods only, no overhead camshafts. Engines to be front-mounted, driving the rear wheels via a direct-drive with no gearbox.
4 – Total ban on all safety gear, including (but not limited to) – fireproof overalls, helmets, HANS devices, gloves, goggles, seat belts, fire extinguishers, etc… Drivers must wear loose cotton overalls, one pair to be retained throughout the entirety of a driver’s career. Flat cap may be worn, but angle and radius of the peak must be within carefully defined limits in order not to act as an aerodynamic aid. If you don’t want to die, don’t crash. It’s that simple.
5 – Drum brakes all round, operated by a hand-lever in the cockpit. Hand lever to be made of a softwood to allow for flex and reduce driver-feel. These are meant to be the best drivers in the world, let’s let them show it!
6 – Engines must be hand cranked to start. Drivers are not allowed assistance from mechanics for any of the following: Starting the engine, changing tyres, refuelling, adjusting the choke or the air-to-fuel ratio. Additionally no radios of any sort. Pit boards to be replaced with semaphore flags.
I think we also need to make the cars look better and make the drivers seem more heroic (though only within a very narrowly-defined, regressive definition of heroism)
7 – All sponsorship to be banned, other than that which comes from alcohol or tobacco companies. After all, it’s well known that these are literally the only liveries which have ever looked good on race cars. Actually maybe an exception could be Gulf oil, but only if they sponsor Porsche or Aston Martin. In order to keep the sponsors happy, there needs to be as much smoking as possible. Drivers must smoke at least one packet of 20 cigarettes between the start of the race and the time the last-placed car finishes. Five cigarettes must be smoked by the driver during each pit stop (he’ll have plenty of time because he has to change his own wheels and refuel, without the aid of power/air tools). Podium champagne to be replaced with podium pipes. Instead of spraying champagne, they can spit chewing tobacco.
8 – Tracks are too safe and sanitised. Firstly, all run-off areas should be replaced with rough, uneven, uncut grass. Secondly, the grass should be liberally oiled, and sprinkled with Caltrops. Third, the grass should be no wider than three3 yards from the edge of the track, and bordered entirely with concrete walls, the surfaces of which should be embedded with barbed wire and broken glass. Also, the only flag should be the chequered flag, which should be waved at the start and the end of the race, by a man standing in the middle of the fastest part of the track, ideally wearing a flat cap and smoking a pipe. The race will not be stopped at any point, for any reason.
9 – Bring the spectators closer to the action. Get rid of all catch fences around the track, and get rid of marshals and designated seating areas. Just build up steep slopes of dirt which drop to the edge of the circuit. Spectators can stand wherever they like, even on the track. Also, in order to allay any complaints about noise, ear defenders will be strictly banned from the circuit. Free packs of cigarettes to be given to every spectator.
Those are just a few of my thoughts on how we could take sensible, basic measures to bring the excitement back to the sport. I think this would see sponsors and manufacturers flock to the sport, with record crowds at every venue.
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136 comments on “Ferrari threatens to quit F1 if it doesn’t approve of Liberty’s changes”
Ed Marques (@edmarques)
3rd November 2017, 0:18
So Ferrari wants to keep getting money just for being Ferrari.
I believe this time it won’t work, Sergio..
Ed Marques (@edmarques)
3rd November 2017, 0:32
I know it’s more complicated than that, but i think someone will call the Ferrari bluff one day.
3rd November 2017, 2:09
A Chinese group are buying big stakes and perhaps whole brands of FIAT-chrysler, Marchionne is under serious threat.
3rd November 2017, 6:36
That is sold background info ther @peartree!
3rd November 2017, 7:31
@bascb, not only is it rather vague, at the moment it is also incorrect – whilst there is a Chinese car maker (Great Wall) which has expressed an interest in buying a stake in Fiat-Chrysler, they haven’t actually bought a single share in them yet (let alone buying entire brands).
3rd November 2017, 14:33
Pure speculation. Great Wall sells one fifth of the car FCA sell and their revenue is on fourth…tell me how can they buy shares of FCA let alone enire brands? BS.
3rd November 2017, 6:22
I think this time its time to let em leave if they want, crybabies
3rd November 2017, 11:01
ferrari quit? play it on !
3rd November 2017, 9:53
I may be in the minority here but I hope Liberty shake up F1 and give a bigger piece of the pie to the smaller teams who struggle on year after year without the mega rewards given to Mercedes, RBR and Ferrari, if Ferrari can’t take it on the chin and keep on demanding rules and payouts that benefit them more than the other constructors then maybe the sport will be better off without them.
3rd November 2017, 0:20
Seems like the teams kinda want the same thing as the fans and that’s to have more design freedom. I understand them not wanting to switch after all this work they have done already. If FOM would open the rules outside motor builders could come in under relaxed rules and if they think they can catch the big teams with a n/a motor or w/e they think will beat them should be aloud. Don’t force them to have all the big stuff like the big 3 teams do. Would it be something to see a team come in with a 19,000 rpm v10 trying to beat the cars we have now? That would be interesting to me. Lastly Ferrari arnt the only unhappy team right now all 3 of the big 3 are upset
3rd November 2017, 0:46
I was thinking something similar about opening up the design regulations. However, I have a concern that if a cheaper V10 engine were allowed to be built and it starts beating a very complicated and very expensive V6 hybrid engine, the big teams would be obviously very annoyed at how much more they’ve spent, especially given that they are trying to advertise what they can do.
As always, there ought to be a middle ground. There were previously rumours they might allow V8s back in addition to V6 engines. It seems a shame these didn’t come to anything
Stephen Crowsen (@drycrust)
3rd November 2017, 1:32
By the end of the 2020 season nearly all of the lap records will be held by a car with a V6 (MGU-H) hybrid car. If a car came in with a 3 litre V10 then they’d be starting the race from the back of the grid.
3rd November 2017, 6:38
Probably, yeah @drycrust. Not to mention having to lug around almost double the fuel will make that car incredibly bulky and slow in the race too. Unless they’d be bound to the same fuel flow limits, but that would mean the engine could never run at full throttle at all.
3rd November 2017, 20:22
The hybrids are already bulkier than a v10 car filled to full of of fuel it would need to finish a race. A race ready package of hybrid engine+electronics+batteries+all the extra stuff the hybrid needs weights about 70-80kg more than a race ready v10 engine fitted into a car. That 70-80kg allows the v10 to carry more than enough fuel to finish the race on single tank while being faster and lighter all the way through the race. A v10 is a race engine. Hybrid is old road car tech that would never be put in a race car (just like diesel) because of its weight unless the rules require it or heavily favour it. Or a manufacturer wants it.
Last time I got into argument about this some person tried to explain to me than a 35kg battery in the hybrid is actually weightless
Enforcing a fuel flow limit for the v10s would be just as silly as enforcing the no turbo’s rule on the hybrids from the v10 era.
3rd November 2017, 22:08
Yet again, I see that you are pumping out the same old lies – are you always this wilfully ignorant?
Since you raise the point, the batteries are included in the minimum self weight of the power unit, as are the weight of the ancillaries such as the cooling system (and where you randomly pulled the claim that the engines magically needed another 20kg of cooling apparatus is anybody’s guess, other than it feels that you made up that figure because you needed it to exist in order to further promote your lies).
Look, I get that you want a V10 engine, but the constant false claims that you are putting out just continue to make you look like a rather obsessive fool shrieking for a past that has gone and is not coming back.
Roth Man (@rdotquestionmark)
3rd November 2017, 8:55
Not necessarily. They didn’t have much lower power levels with the v10s around 2003 to what we are seeing now, imagine what 15 year’s advancement could have done on top of that.
Roth Man (@rdotquestionmark)
3rd November 2017, 8:56
They were much lighter units back then as well.
3rd November 2017, 3:49
I don’t think many of us understand what engineering is. It simply means that the end product is carefully calculated against other options and the best choices are made given specific compromises. The big teams will never be beaten by a new comer unless it has the engineering capabilities necessary to out do the big teams, which means money, experience and talent. Time is usually the resource that hinders may engineering outcome.
3rd November 2017, 1:08
@racerdude7730,@strontium, Might be interesting to allow 3L NA engines to compete with the current turbo-hybrids but they would have to abide by the same fuel use and parts limits to make it meaningful, and I don’t think they would be competitive, but at least the noise would please some people.
Paul A (@paul-a)
3rd November 2017, 16:56
Keep 1.6 litre engines and remove minimum weight. Some manufacturers might be able to prove that lugging several hundreds of pounds of batteries around a track (plus all the weight of the “recovery” paraphernalia) is performance and cost effective, good for their image, whatever, but at this point in time the extra 160hp, while interesting combined with DRS, is probably only justifiable when you remember that F1 cars have gone from under half a ton to over three quarters of a ton over the last little while. I find Marchionne’s comments about the “sandbox” both credible and relevant.
I fully recognize that some people will scream “green energy is the future.” F1 is not green, it’s *motor* racing. We now have an “e-series” for those that want to follow. And yes, many car makers are kowtowing to the electric/hybrid mania. Road relevance? I could buy a Tesla but couldn’t even get to work and back without a four hour recharge. Tons of CO2? Think of Boeing 747s hauling the F1 circus around the world. Cost and reliability? If Honda can fail, it’s all a dream or a nightmare depending on your perspective. F1 is special, the summit of motor sport; it can sustain its heritage or go the way of professional wrestling. Liberty and the FIA are one thing, Ferrari’s comments another — but in the end it’s up to us (public, fans) to maintain “our” sport.
btw, enjoyed the “comment of the day” — satire is often a most remarkable and effective way of moving the world forward.
3rd November 2017, 0:27
If I’m Liberty, I call Ferrari’s bluff.
1) I’m not entirely convinced that they’d walk away so quickly.
2) Ferrari is easily the most secretive, paranoid, and tense teams on the grid. It’s a common joke now that when something goes wrong, someone is getting fired (see Vettel’s spark plug), but it’s pretty close to reality. They value winning at all cost, and it’s even worse when they’re not winning. As much as I’d hate to see two grid spots open up like that, it might be good for Ferrari to give it a rest for a few years and come back renewed, refreshed, and with a new vision.
We lament the teams that come and go, the Manors and the Caterhams of the sport. Sauber has been saved from going under, and Force India has seemed to teeter on the brink at times. Ferrari may not like it, but for F1 to survive, the sport needs to reevaluate how the business works and how money is handed out, or else it could disappear before we know it.
3rd November 2017, 1:26
Agreed, Ferrari has no where else to go to. They’re in it for the long haul, always have been. I don’t believe teams should get funding for their historic value to the sport, it should be earned by performance. I am hopeful that Liberty isn’t scared of teams, that they will redistribute prize money more fairly and that they can enforce controlled budgets to close the field up more than it has been probably ever. I do like the proposed engine rules, I don’t care for sound, I care for racing, I want new engine manufacturers to be able to join the sport (look at Honda’s progress… arguably their own doing somewhat), I think the V6 Hybrids are a good choice as they are advanced technically unique to F1. I want it to be feasible for new teams to join the sport and to have 26-30 cars on the grid. I do want Ferrari to be part of the F1 always, I don’t want the governing body to pander to them though. I do appreciate that Liberty have taken on Brawn as a consultant and that changes in the future will be more well planned. I am optimistic that Liberty are on the right track.
3rd November 2017, 1:41
@antznz I couldn’t have said it better myself, I feel like this sums up the sentiment of a lot of F1 fans.
QOTD nomination @keithcollantine
3rd November 2017, 3:00
Yep, I’d call their bluff too.
Seriously, in what other fantasy world will they get $100mm per year simply for existing?
3rd November 2017, 8:39
3rd November 2017, 14:39
You are talking like other teams aren’t getting paid simply for taking part in F1.
Ferrari gets $95 m
Red Bull $78 m
Mercedes $64 m
these are quotes from 2015 and I suspect Mercedes is getting a much bigger quote as we speak.
Get your facts straight before talking.
3rd November 2017, 10:02
Ferrari walk away from F1 … maybe they will one day but the bad PR for their road car division would be immense, there are lots of super-cars out there that don’t wear the prancing horse that are just as good or even better, I for one don’t believe that Ferrari are any longer the leading super-car marque.
3rd November 2017, 14:36
4th November 2017, 22:01
I am probably misspelling it but Koenesig maybe….\_(‘.’)_/
Paul A (@paul-a)
3rd November 2017, 17:51
OK — I’ll bite. What cars from their “road car division” are threatened by “super-cars” that are “just as good or even better”? And at the same price (or close)? And if Ferrari put their F1 budget into Le Mans, do you think their sales would plummet?
4th November 2017, 1:23
Porsche, Maserati, Lamborghini, Aston Martin but please remember I did say “in my opinion”. As far as Le Mans is concerned I would love to see them invest money there and see them do well. Please don’t take my comments as being anti Ferrari, I love them and the brand but I just wouldn’t buy one.
4th November 2017, 9:07
Have you ever driven those cars and a Ferrari before talking? I suspect not, otherwise you wouldn’t be talking like you do.
3rd November 2017, 0:33
I really wish Marchionne wasn’t bluffing. I hope Liberty realize that he is.
3rd November 2017, 0:42
Ferrari threatens to quit? LMAO, what’s this?? Lol, what an embarrassement… For a team that excists more then 70 years… I repeat, they excist 70 years guys. Wauw! You’re a disgrace Ferrari! Really disgusting!
3rd November 2017, 1:41
That is NOT what they should be copying from redbull…
3rd November 2017, 3:48
You obviously have no clue what reality is for Ferrari in F1…..here is the reality .
Marchionne added that Ferrari’s board would be “celebrating until the cows come home” if it left Formula 1, with such a move “totally beneficial” from a financial point of view.
Ferrari DOES NOT need F1 to be a profitable company.They are actually throwing money away to go racing in Formula 1
Nick Wyatt (@nickwyatt)
3rd November 2017, 8:15
Don’t I remember reading that one of the reasons given for Ferrari’s preferential payment was that ‘Ferrari sell road cars in order to go racing, whereas other teams go racing in order to sell cars’? If that’s true then I assume Ferrari will cease to exist if they pull out of racing.
3rd November 2017, 9:37
There is no sport like F1 where Ferrari uses as a marketing tool to advertise their brand. Others are too small for marketing, and at the moment Ferrari is not loosing much money for advertisement like mercedes. I call it bluff and unwise if they really decide to go. Unless there’s an alternative and bigger sport than F1 it’s not a good idea for them to even consider.
Sure, it will be good for FIAT as a whoel and for their finance but it will be the start of decline for Ferrari.
3rd November 2017, 10:14
Where is the logic in your reasoning ….. Ferrari sells sports cars on the strength of their F1 reputation and receive huge financial rewards from the FIA for just turning up, that is hardly throwing money away ….. we have a situation here where Ferrari still believe they are bigger than the sport and all teams and sportsmen/women with that attitude eventually disappear into ignominy. I don’t think Liberty have invested so much money in the sport that they will allow themselves to be bullied by one team, Sergio needs to remember he is no longer dealing with Ecclestone who blatantly favoured Ferrari for years over all the other manufacturers and Liberty may just say that “if you don’t like it you know where the door is”.
3rd November 2017, 11:12
Are you serious? Ferrari get $120 million plus Just for turning up. Not winning you understand, just putting 2 cars on the grid and loosing most of the time. Look, Ferrari need F1 just as F1 needs Ferrari, but these 5 yearly threats to quit, whenever a new formula is about to be agreed are getting tedious. Ferrari almost certainly have the biggest budget in F1, get the pick of the best engineers, who are usually prized away from other teams with crazy salaries and yet still winning seems to be the hardest thing. It would be sad to see them leave, but if they want to, I say goodbye and thanks for the memories. Next!!!!!!!!!
3rd November 2017, 6:39
He says it clearly: Either you let us have our unfair advantage for ever, or we will not play.
3rd November 2017, 0:46
As sarcastic as the COTD is, I can’t help but feel it’s 100% right on one thing: IT WOULD BE MEGA POPULAR!
From all the points above, danger and close racing, no runoff areas, it seems like the stakes would be immeasurable higher than they are today; and the higher the stakes, the more interesting it becomes.
Add to that crazy access to the very edges of the track, and you have something so much more immersive and thrilling than what we have today.
I’d watch it!
Especially since it would probably be on a free-to-air TV. :)
3rd November 2017, 1:06
You might watch it, but they’d lose a viewer in me for sure, and others like me. The proposed series would be little more than a dangerous joke, and I disagree that the higher the stakes the more interesting the spectacle.
But I’ll let you get back to your regularly scheduled Russian Roulette, which is presumably your favorite sport of all.
Roth Man (@rdotquestionmark)
3rd November 2017, 9:00
I think there’s a possibility he was joking 🙄
3rd November 2017, 1:26
I wouldn’t watch it. NASCAR has remarkable racing, unimpeded by aero, and I cant watch it.
I just can’t get excited by those cars.
3rd November 2017, 1:32
More people would watch it than current F1
3rd November 2017, 11:33
Neither did I but now I watch NASCAR, Indycar and the Aussie V8’s …. still love F1 but it does not have the excitement of wheel to wheel racing as other categories.
3rd November 2017, 12:30
IndyCar keeps getting better. I’m curious to see how the 2018 aero package does– it’s a major uptick in appearance.
3rd November 2017, 4:17
Basically, it’s the 1960’s and before minus all the power, and instead of concrete walls it would have trees, spectators, houses, lampposts and anything else that would be on the side of a public roads- which is what most circuits on the European continent were made of back then. If I had to make an addition to that COTD I would make the Isle of Man circuit the venue for the British Grand Prix, the Mille Miglia the Italian Grand Prix, the Carrera Panamericana the Mexican Grand Prix and a 190 mile public road circuit for the French Grand Prix, the old Spa circuit for the Belgian GP, a GP in Romania utilizing the Transfargarasan and a host of either extremely fast and/or super long and challenging circuits with no organization and no safety features!
3rd November 2017, 5:58
Hilarious COTD, but sadly very to the point as even some of the comments above mine attest to.
3rd November 2017, 17:04
No it wouldn’t. It wouldn’t be broadcast on TV at all. The only way to see a race would be to actually travel to the venue. Although you might see highlights of the major races, a few weeks later, on a newsreel at your local cinema. Otherwise, you can read about them two months after they happened in a motorsport magazine. You want an exciting, down-to-the-wire championship? Just imagine how much better it would be if you didn’t find out what happened at the Mexican GP until next January!
And since we’re increasing the senses of danger and excitement, that should extend to the fans as well. Just think how much more fun F1 would have been if, when Pastor Maldonado crashed out of another race, he killed or maimed a few hundred spectators at the same time. These fans are supposed to be thrill-seekers. It’s time we stopped coddling them with an expectation that they won’t suffer grievous bodily harm. Fans should be close enough to hear the cars, smell the petrol, and be decapitated by errant debris.
3rd November 2017, 20:26
The fans should be put into the center of the action!
Fer no.65 (@fer-no65)
3rd November 2017, 0:54
Not sure if Perez wants to be put in a position where Ocon is right behind and passes him. Esteban improved all through the year and at this point looks better and more consistent than Sergio… He’d be better off concentrating on beating Ocon in qualy with team orders right ON.
As for Ferrari leaving, what can you expect? after years and years of benefits, they have the power to push the boundaries a bit more than the others, F1 is Ferrari as much as Ferrari is F1, and they can do whatever they want in negotiations. F1 cannot afford to lose them, so I’d do the same if I were Marchionne… if it’s for the benefit of my own company, why not? this is a war after all, a high tech war on and off the track.
3rd November 2017, 1:21
Nor can Ferrari afford to lose F1, it’s not like they can just go back to Le Mans series, they don’t carry nearly the weight they used to, and IIRC the Germans have a better record there. Without racing Ferrari just become the halo brand for FIAT, and I think I see more Lambos than Ferraris on the street already.
3rd November 2017, 7:54
While ever that’s the opinion, Ferrari will continue to get an unfair advantage.
In the end, F1 is a business. Liberty just have to do the sums, just as Ferrari do. If Ferrari left, how many dollars would be lost? How many would be gained? Is it worth it? How much would Ferrari lose or gain, and what are the chances of them actually leaving?
From a pure sporting point of view, I’d love to see them call Ferraris bluff. The sport would be fairer if they (and the other big teams) weren’t as powerful (politically). But it’s a business, and Liberty will have their bean counters working on it.
3rd November 2017, 8:06
f1 can afford to loose them, Ferrari can leave if they want to, i´m tired of their ways anyway.
However the spirit behind his comment was that the sport has to be commercially viable for his business and if the rules indicate to him that it wont be, he will leave. That is the same position that all of the OEM teams have stated and is the problem with F1 at the moment, a grid made up of teams who value profit for their parent companies above all else.
3rd November 2017, 13:06
Why can’t F1 afford Ferrari to go?
There are 9 other teams on the grid and potential for more. The new PU regulations will allow for more engine manufacturers to step into F1 and potentially allow for more teams to be competitive.
The only person who believed that Ferrari were the be all and end all of F1 was Bernie Ecclestone, yes they are a major team, but, F1 would suffer massively without them.
3rd November 2017, 1:21
Ferrari will never leave. They need F1 just as much as F1 needs them. They have always been posturing like that, but they will never really do it. They are needed more for the casual viewers and newcomers, than they are for the regular F1 fans. Regular fans know there’s more to F1 than just Ferrari.
3rd November 2017, 2:20
I honestly couldn’t give a toss if Ferrari quit F1 racing because I don’t think it will really change anything in F1, certainly not for the worst at least, and I don’t care what will happen with Ferrari either way because I don’t view them as being so prestigious nowadays.
3rd November 2017, 2:41
3rd November 2017, 8:57
In the sense that they don’t need F1 and F1 doesn’t need them, I agree.
3rd November 2017, 1:33
The problem with Ferrari is that they think the team IS F1. It isn’t and has never been. F1 will exist just fine without Ferrari, in fact I think it might be a little more pleasant. So I hope Liberty calls their bluff, if for nothing else other than the amusement factor.
3rd November 2017, 1:40
COTD was hilarious, well done!
3rd November 2017, 2:10
If Ferrari leaves combined with the halo introduction the f1 is dead.
3rd November 2017, 7:58
I wouldn’t care if Ferrari left. I know many others who wouldn’t.
Sure, the die hard Tifosi would go, but how many others? I doubt many.
Plus, I doubt Ferrari would leave anyway. They’ve built their brand around F1, and they stand to take a big reputation hit from no longer being in F1.
3rd November 2017, 12:55
I think I would care if Ferrari left, but I also would continue to watch F1, and I would like to think Audi or Porsche etc would enter and fill the gap.
First and foremost I doubt Ferrari and Liberty will not be able to come to agreements on F1 post-2020. I trust Brawn/Liberty to make some good sensible decisions for the long term health of the sport. If they are actually so convinced of going a direction that Ferrari can’t agree with, such that Ferrari quits, well that’s a ‘new F1’ that I’m going to be fascinated to see.
But surely there is lot’s of room for compromise here. Surely Ferrari must understand and appreciate how hard it is for the smaller teams, how hard it is in dirty air, and the fact F1 has had a diminishing audience, and those things need to be addressed. Surely they know that keeping F1 as a big 3 or 4 team series while all others flounder is not sustainable, at least, not by the way Liberty and Brawn have been talking anyway.
If Ferrari (Red Bull particularly too) want to retain design freedom for the sake of individuality, that’s great, and exciting, but they should play a pro-active role in helping shape F1 so that they can do that without it continuing to be simply a game of which team has the most money and resources.
Perhaps it shouldn’t be a surprise that as Liberty starts to put their twist on the plot, the teams with the most weight are going to try to stake their claims and shape things as they would prefer. I just generally have this feeling that they should all be able to work with each other and come up with something better and sustainable…surely how can they all not do better than when BE was in charge…of course, unless you’re Ferrari perhaps, lol. Maybe they’ll never get a better deal again than they had with BE, and they know it.
3rd November 2017, 2:17
Last time Ferrari threatened to leave, they built an Indycar. Could they please do that again (and at least run it in a couple races first before pulling the plug)
3rd November 2017, 12:20
@mrmuffins They wouldn’t be able to do that now because Indycar is now a spec chassis series (Unfortunately). They could build an engine but it would have to run in the same Dallara chassis everyone else has.
3rd November 2017, 2:17
Of course, Ferrari will not leave, but they can negotiate deals that will benefit them. They just use old tactics, and while we laugh at that, this is a display of how serious they see current negotiations. Don’t forget that essentially Ferrari have two sister teams in Haas and Sauber that will likely back them up. So I say they came prepared to the table and it won’t be as straightforward as calling their bluff for Liberty.
3rd November 2017, 2:32
Reading the whole article, Marchionne is far too full of overly optimistic, grass-will-be-greener sunniness to be anywhere close to being serious.
I’d call his words 95% investor soothing and 5% setting out his genuine, real-world stall.
3rd November 2017, 6:53
I view this as tailoring the message to the audience – a show of bravado on the investors call.
3rd November 2017, 2:37
Call his bluff.
Ferrari need F1 more than F1 needs Ferrari. Isn’t this is the same guy that doesn’t think Electric cars have a future…
3rd November 2017, 4:04
This website frowns from those who criticize or put down anybody or anything that is negative towards the sport. Your threats Ferrari are nothing but wasted energy and my comments about the stupidity of the engines will go unnoticed
3rd November 2017, 4:13
Yet again Ferrari threaten.. As a Ferrari fan and long-time F1 follower, I can see this for what it is. Positioning strategy being played out in order to get a sweeter deal from the sport’s commercial body. While their strategies worked perfectly fine while negotiating with Bernie, I doubt they will work with Liberty. Liberty want an equitable F1 with franchises being able to compete.
But the rise in formula E may actually come to Ferrari’s rescue. For the first time ever, there is a credible threat to the long-term viability of F1. Ferrari can actually threaten to leave to Formula E and it won’t be a bluff. Marchionne has said previously that Ferrari needs to be in Formula E. He will make that a reality, or at least posture it as one.
Liberty can’t afford to lose their marquee manufacturer to Formula E. Formula E is already attracting all manufacturers, Ferrari joining it will make Formula E truly big. Formula 1 will then become a playground for independent garages/franchise operations that work with 75% standardised parts.
It all depends on how real Ferrari can make the above situation look in the negotiation boardroom. They built a prototype indycar just as a negotiating chip once. I won’t be surprised if an electric car prototype is made by Ferrari this time – just for making its threat seem real.
3rd November 2017, 4:15
I have always laughed at previous threat’s by Ferrari about pulling out of F1 but I believe this time it maybe no bluff.
It’s a totally different Ferrari management (era) now, it was recently spun off as a public listed company which now answers to shareholders so what Marchionne is saying could be correct. Remember nothing lasts forever.
Ferrari will survive without F1 and F1 will survive without Ferrari (it would just be a little different).
3rd November 2017, 4:50
Facts are none of the manufactures needs f1. Ferrari will continue to sell cars as does porsche, merc, renault… Since 2009 f1 has lost its way. There was nothing wrong with the formula pre 2009. Cars looked good, they were safe, fast, loud difficult to drive, produced good racing. Then the FIA and the bosses screwed it all up. They could have left it but no they had to change it because they could not keep there fingers out.
The reality is this new formula is not road relevant to any of the manufactures. Anyone that argues it is is full of it. I dont see any v6 900hp every day cars driving the streets with 2 tonne of downforce, carbon fibre brakes and trick suspensions systems.
F1 needs to keep it simple and they will keep ferrari and most other teams in f1. In fact they would encourage big racing teams into the category.
Naturally aspirated engines, no turbos, KERS, standard floors, that produce consistent downforce, Simple front wings, simple rear wings allow cars to follow.
3rd November 2017, 7:49
phil, it seems rather weird for you to praise the pre-2009 cars and say that they produced good racing, despite the complexity of the various aero pieces they had on the cars, and to then contradict yourself by demanding simpler aero. I’d also question the “difficult to drive” statement, because the earlier part of that era had extensive driver aids – remember when traction control was legal, for example – whilst I can recall that figures like Webber commented about how easy the cars became to drive when the V8’s were introduced.
Also, how exactly are you supposed to produce a “standard floor that produces consistent downforce”? As the car pitches about as it goes around the track, and when it is in the wake of another car, the downforce produced by the floor will change – so what you are demanding is not possible.
3rd November 2017, 8:01
3rd November 2017, 9:49
Exactly, this current generation of F1 cars are harder to drive than the old V8’s, you can see it with how the drivers wrestle with traction from the much higher torque levels. This current formula is a lot of fun to watch when the cars are on intermediate tyres and track conditions are in that zone between wet and dry.
3rd November 2017, 4:56
How do you know you’re working for the benefit of F1? Ferrari threatens to quit on you that’s how! Keep it up Liberty. And to Don Sergio I say: go on then , prove your serious, walk the walk and don’t let the door hit you on your way out! Remains to be seen if you’re gonna be seen celebrating till the cows come home or just seen as cow-level braindead.
3rd November 2017, 6:45
Great CotD @mazdachris.
3rd November 2017, 7:17
The COTD is just ridiculous, LOL. The things suggested will never happen. At least most of them won’t.
3rd November 2017, 13:18
Welcome to the concept of reductio ad absurdum.
Travis Oreali (@)
3rd November 2017, 7:18
Keith, please do a poll “Would you be upset if Ferrari left Formula 1”, I’d love to know how many people actually care.
3rd November 2017, 9:13
3rd November 2017, 10:03
3rd November 2017, 13:15
3rd November 2017, 13:19
4th November 2017, 9:04
3rd November 2017, 7:30
Why would Ferrari want to stay if it doesn’t get what it wants? To just grin and bear it and be associated with a fat American company & Nascar-esque series?
3rd November 2017, 8:08
Why would F1 need to pay Ferrari $100 million every year just to show up and pretend they will leave if they don’t like something?
3rd November 2017, 13:59
Well ideally for Ferrari to get what it wants they’d probably want the MS/Ferrari type days back, and that is just never going to happen again. So far the ‘fat American company & Nascar-esque series’ has barely had time to do their thing, other than the pre-race stuff in the US, which will not be happening at the other races. I think I’ll trust Brawn and Liberty going forward over ‘greedy, gadgety, gimmicky’ dictators BE/CVC/Ferrari who have already proved the level they can drop to for their own self-interests.
3rd November 2017, 15:07
At least it was a classy pinnacle of Motorsport and not some giant conglomerate pseudo-Big Mac cheeseball garbage series – which it will eventually devolve to under current ownership. Bully for Ferrari to hold out for what they want. If not, I’ll happily get the popcorn and watch it fall apart
3rd November 2017, 16:24
Soooo….you’re an optimist then. Alrighty.
4th November 2017, 9:07
@sjzelli crying as usual if the comments disagree with Ferrari / Vettel. Stop watching the sport then, noone will miss you
Nick Wyatt (@nickwyatt)
3rd November 2017, 8:08
Thanks for a great start to my day, Keith. I didn’t get further than the headline without having a really good laugh!
Let’s try that attitude in other sports. ‘AC Milan threaten to quit football if they don’t approve of FIFA rule changes’ ‘Nadal threatens to quit if tennis balls don’t get bigger’.
John H (@john-h)
3rd November 2017, 8:09
I’ve read quite a few COTDs and that was probably the most enjoyable! Nice one @mazdachris
3rd November 2017, 8:13
So Mercedes and Renault displeased, Ferrari about to quit…
Great start to new engine regulations.
F1 is in a catch 22. Current engine makers invested 1 billion in to hardly road relevant engines. Now after few years, they will need to reinvest yet again in to even less relevant engines.
How will new engine makers enter F1? Seemingly to be competitive you need to cash out 1 bilion cash units…
Engine regs themself are resonable, but need stacks of standardization, or better yet performance balancing.
3rd November 2017, 8:15
Did anyone else put this latest development at Ferrari together with Bernie’s recent comments about f1 needing a competitive Ferrari, mixed in with controversy about writing the rules to suit Ferrari? Coincidence much?
Also, how has Ferrari managed to be the 2nd or 3rd best team for the last ten years with the amount of power they wield and funding they get given? Beats me
3rd November 2017, 8:31
Ferrari is part of F1, and I hope they don’t leave (for the sake of both).
But F1 should stop with the extra special payments to Ferrari. If Ferrari’s payments were split between the poorer teams than we would almost have a level playing field.
I hope Liberty can move towards a PL type split of payments and equity ownership for teams (e.g. part of payments is done as stock).
3rd November 2017, 8:39
It has been a while since Ferrari threatened to quit! They won’t, they can’t. As has been said before, Ferrari do zero marketing, F1 is their advertising campaign. So if they quit F1 they will have to sink that budget into an advertising campaign….which will be just as expensive.
3rd November 2017, 9:57
@geemac Right, this is part of the usual F1 ‘circus’. I am sure Liberty expected Ferrari to come out and threaten this, it’s part of the negotiating process (open extreme on both sides). Ross has been in Formula 1 long enough with nearly 10 years at Ferrari to expect this response from Ferrari at least, if not the other manufacturers as well.
Fully agree with your comment on how much Ferrari need F1, despite what Marchionne might say and some commentators echo.
3rd November 2017, 10:35
@ju88sy You are right, it is all just posturing and there will be lots more from all sides as these negotiations gather momentum.
3rd November 2017, 8:45
Blimey, thank you @keithcollantine for CoTD – I wasn’t expecting that!
3rd November 2017, 8:56
@mazdachris To be fair, it was a pretty impressive rant! :D
3rd November 2017, 9:34
Kickstarter campaign to send @mazdachris off to future strategy meetings, anyone?
3rd November 2017, 9:58
@mazdachris It was amusing, especially in light of some of the opinions expressed directly above your comment!
3rd November 2017, 10:29
@mazdachris, fully deserved; great post.
Glad to see that quality sarcasm can earn that spot as well.
3rd November 2017, 13:01
@mazdachris – Congratulations on your CoTD. My only worry is that some people (a few commenters on other F1 sites spring to mind) might simply take it at face value and try to get it implemented. Some people really think that way, which is why it was so funny.
3rd November 2017, 9:15
If Mercedes were to leave that would be the bigger blow to F1. Than if Ferrari left, there would be four teams without engines and nobody to fill the void.
3rd November 2017, 9:17
This situation with Ferrari has been bubbling away for years and it’s the one thing that should have been addressed ages ago.
Bear in mind it’s not just Ferrari – they’re not the only team that gets a bonus payment under the Concorde agreement and it’s been the main point of angst amongst all the midfield/back marker teams.
Frankly, I can see a while bunch of quit threats and some teams leaving because F1 as a commercial excercise is no longer valid for a team. It’s a money pit and nothing in any of the new regulations seems to be addressing that.
It’s be sad to see them go, along with others, but these days businesses are run by the accountants and shareholders and all they see is money being spent and no measurable return. That’s the reality of business and F1 is a business.
The big losers will be Liberty – fancy spending as much as they did on a business that was already failing and will continue to do so. I hope I’m wrong but I can’t help but feel F1 will be gone within the next 5 – 10 years.
3rd November 2017, 14:05
So…Liberty and Brawn don’t get any time to mould F1 and improve things as the new people in charge?
3rd November 2017, 9:30
The ‘F’ stands for Formula not Ferrari.
3rd November 2017, 11:58
@petegeo My main concern is how are we going to replace the ‘F’ in FIA ;)
3rd November 2017, 14:36
I have just Googled it, and to my amazement. FIA does not stand for Ferrari International Assistance:)
3rd November 2017, 10:01
Ferrari quitting wouldn’t overly bother me, my main interest in their presence in F1 is that they reliably fill the role of pantomime villains.
While I would be sorry to see them go, I’m more interested to see the sport reshaped so that more – and more competitive – teams are queuing up to join the sport. That means controlling costs and a fairer distribution of revenue. Ferrari can’t be allowed to stymie progress.
3rd November 2017, 14:06
See I just know there’s more that we agree on than disagree.
3rd November 2017, 10:06
1. Sergio did not “threaten to quit”, he was asked a question and said if F1 direction no longer comported with Ferrari strategy then they would leave the sport. The same is true of Mercedes, Renault (Toyota, Ford, BMW, Honda,…) and any other OEM that does not exist to race cars but rather races them as a means to an end.
2. Please, enough with the “Ferrari sells road cars to support its racing.” Yes, that was true 50 years ago, but that has not been true for 25 years. Ferrari is now a luxury brand with $3.3 billion of revenue. They are a public company with shareholders and bondholders. They race cars to build and market their image, as well as to develop technology. At the point where F1 no longer makes sense for the business of road cars and the imagery they will dump F1. The only difference between Ferrari and all the others is that they will think about it a lot harder and spend a lot more time analyzing the decision.
3. I know Sergio professionally, and this guy would not hesitate to pull the plug on F1 once the analysis of the situation points solidly in that direction.
3rd November 2017, 14:09
Can’t argue with anything you’ve said.
3rd November 2017, 14:52
Finally someone writing with common sense. Make that revenue $4.4 billion…yesterday’s news
Nick Wyatt (@nickwyatt)
3rd November 2017, 10:52
I copied this from the Bloomberg article. I’m confused now as I thought the FIA held sway over the ‘formula’ of F1, and that Liberty were ‘just’ the commercial rights holders. So does Liberty now determine the technical limits and requirements of F1?
3rd November 2017, 11:42
Is Perez serious? That nonce whinges more than anyone at the team to get preferential treatment over his team mate. Suck it up Sergio you clown!
3rd November 2017, 11:54
Should Ferrari leave, is it really a loss? It sure will free up a load of money which can benefit new entrants into the sport. And it is not particularly helpfull for them to stay either if you can’t manage to win. From a business perspective either shape up or leave. This is dragging on too long now and will hurt their brand.
3rd November 2017, 12:12
I’d still say Ferrari has more to lose in leaving then F1 does. Both would take a hit, but F1 has other teams who can compete while Ferrari’s brand relies heavily on it’s F1 history more then anything.
3rd November 2017, 12:28
Something that is easy to ignore given the ‘Ferrari quit’ headline is that you now have 3 of the 4 current engine manufacturer’s that are in F1 have publicly said they don’t like the proposed 2021 engine formula put forward by Liberty.
3rd November 2017, 12:33
It’s almost as if they are preparing for some kind of negotiation next week ;)
3rd November 2017, 12:31
I am astounded that people cannot see what Marchionne is saying here (though it is as clear as day).
He says –
In F1, the ONLY “set of circumstances” that would be beneficial to Ferrari, the maintenance of their brand, and strengthening their UNIQUE position of the marketplace, is to win the championship/s (Constructors & Drivers).
Essentially, what he is saying is that, if Liberty to do provide them a way to win (both championships) in the future with these new engine regulations, there is no point in continuing in F1.
Mercedes has now beaten the 4 years in a row with under the current regulations. Renault is now likely to beat them next year with Red Bull. He is already looking into the future, and is pinning his hopes on being given preferential and probably inside information regarding the new regulations so they can build a wining engine.
3rd November 2017, 12:33
Ferrari is seen by many as the definitive car manufacturer. If the news came out Ferrari were leaving F1 because it’s no longer represented their vision of how to make a car because of its increasing push towards electric motors and safety at the expense of beauty, do people not think that would hurt F1 more than Ferrari?
Ferrari validate F1, they’re inability to win in F1 hurts the reputation of Ferrari, but if Ferrari deemed F1 not worthy of their presence it would crush F1.
Ferrari are like the cool kid, if they say F1 is not cool anymore then that is something F1 can’t recover from. But conversely 10 years without winning has diminished Ferraris status. Both F1 and Ferrari need to have Ferrari winning again.
3rd November 2017, 13:14
I’m not okay with this. Ferrari are the only team to get a flat fee for turning up, no performance requirements, nothing.
Basically: “Hi, we’re Ferrari and we can bring history, mystique, justification and endorsement to your second-rate championship. Also guns. Give us $100M per year and everything will be okay.”
3rd November 2017, 14:57
Again…they are not the only team to get a flat fee for turning up, stop spreading this BS.
Ferrari gets $95 m
Red Bull $78 m
Mercedes $64 m
these are 2015 numbers, Mercedes right now is probably getting much more…
3rd November 2017, 18:06
Actually, yeah I just googled and found an article also about 2015 earnings based on 2014 performance. “Ferrari got $164 mill before they even turned a wheel” in 2015, which was about $54 mill more than Mercedes even though Merc won the Constructors in 2014…RBR and Mac also received over $100 mill for 2014’s participation and placing in the WCC. It’s the CCB we’re talking about or Constructors Championship Bonus. Sauber coming in last still got $47 mill or about half their annual budget.
Michael Brown (@)
3rd November 2017, 19:06
Question: How much involvement do Liberty have in F1’s regulations? Isn’t that the FIA’s job?
3rd November 2017, 19:34
3rd November 2017, 20:09
Don’t let the door hit you on your way out.
3rd November 2017, 21:02
Ferrari is Fiat. You know Fiat dealers couldn’t sleep because of the noise from the rusting brandnew cars in the garage kept them awake. Let them go.
3rd November 2017, 23:28
Ferrari leaving F1 would be quite like Brexit.
You hear them go on and on with threats to leave for political gain. You think actually leaving would probably be harmful to both parties, but both parties are probably big enough to get by in some sort of reasonable way.
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