Kvyat quick enough to return to F1 without Red Bull – Ricciardo

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In the round-up: Daniel Ricciardo says his former Red Bull team mate Daniil Kvyat is quick enough to find his way back into F1 despite having lost his backing from the team.

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Start, Champ Car, Denver, 2006
Champ Car raced at Denver in its penultimate season
Is there a lesson for F1’s new owners in Champ Car’s attempts to build popularity through street races?

They should go and look at how well the ‘street festivals’ worked out for the old Champ Car series.

They put a priority on ‘taking the races to the people’ by hosting races on street circuits in/close to large cities and the circuits tended to be poor, the racing tended to be worse and while the initial races were well-attended the attendance ended up dropping year-on-year because the non-race fans they aimed to attract by making it a ‘festival’ atmosphere didn’t get grabbed by the racing so didn’t come back in future years.

I don’t think any of the street races added during that era on still run by IndyCar today.

If you can come up with a good layout that can produce good racing in a place where fans will come then fine, However far too often over the years the US puts together a street circuit that isn’t that good, doesn’t produce good racing Las that doesn’t have longevity (In F1 over about 15 years they tried street races in Pheonix, Dallas, Detroit and Las Vegas).
RogerRichards

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  • 43 comments on “Kvyat quick enough to return to F1 without Red Bull – Ricciardo”

    1. I have a question. Can the teams paint the halo device or does it have to be black?

      Also I firmly believe Kvyat would be a star driver in indycar racing.

      1. @darkstar teams are able to paint the halo

        1. Thankyou for the information. Give it a few years and I hope there will be a more elegant solution that replaces halo. Formula One can be very funny. Imagine a situation where the teams eventually found a speed advantage from halo. They would argue against its replacement lol

        2. teams are able to paint the halo

          ‘Glow in the dark’ would suit a halo.
          Plus a Vatican street circuit after two miraculous driver escapes..

      2. Why on earth would they need to leave it unpainted?

        1. I didn’t say upainted. I said black. I asked because I had only seen black ones. Unpainted would be stupid.

          1. If you look at pictures @darkstar, try to search for WIlliams – they had one painted white when they ran a version last year.

      3. I wish invisible paint existed !

    2. It’s worth considering that (unless there is something I’ve missed) the deal with Sauber runs until the end of 2020. If Ferrari did want to quit they could still do so at that point in time. As many others have pointed out, having Alfa Romeo in F1 could give them additional leverage in the new regulations, which to me doesn’t necessarily sound like Alfa Romeo are there for commitment.

      My opinion is that they are empty threats, but I don’t think Alfa Romeo proves this. But I’m just speculating

      1. It bugged me that Toto threatened that Mercedes might leave

    3. Ah Champcar’s Street festivals of speed, A concept that gave us things such as the San Jose launch pad…
      https://youtu.be/_kIOxPjPF5A?t=48s

      From memory the idea behind those festivals of speed was that they were seeing big crowds on there long term street circuits like Long Beach, Toronto & Surfers paradise so decided to try & emulate that by going to other cities. However it just didn’t work because as COTD points out none of the circuits they went to were especially good, The racing therefore wasn’t especially good & crowds didn’t really stick around.

      Additionally they did a lot of damage to cars, Not just because of accidents but also because chassis (Among other parts) were getting cracked on some of the bigger bumps. This was a problem in 2006 as they were running out of spares for the outgoing Lola’s & was also an issue in 2007 because they didn’t have many spares for the new Panoz which resulted in teams running older spec parts for the Lola & then trying to repair damaged parts for the Panoz.

      I don’t have an issue with street circuits, However I think it needs to be the right circuit in the right place for the right reasons. Having a generic track just because you want to be in or near a specific city to throw a carnival in that city isn’t a good reason & will result in more unloved Las Vegas car parks than it will popular venues that have a long term future.

      1. Yep, I remember the event at Surfers Paradise. I seem to remember seeing almost more ads than racing on TV because the safety car was on the track so much while they collected broken cars.

        I’m not sure this quest for more F1 in the US is really much of an idea as there seems to be a need for crashes & mayhem to make it popular with the fan base.

    4. With all this talk of tracks and places for F1 to go i have said before about thinking the idea of having 3 or 4 race weekends a year that rotate so we get a mix of tracks and it keeps each year fresh. Keep these dates in places that have history or fans wanna be at. Dont take these dates and give them to people with alot of money to spend in the desert or at a place no fans goto. Id love to see places like San Marino, Surfers Paradise, Long Beach, Mange Cure, Fugi in Japan, Go race in South Africa, Argentina, I would love to see Watkins Glen, Brands Hatch. I know this would be hard because of money and if these tracks would really want these races but I think if F1 would for these dates help them with the money side of it it could be a fun idea. Where would you like use to go if we had 4 races that were different each year? Maybe people think this is a dumb idea but i think it could be nice

      1. @racerdude7730 ”Where would you like us to go if we had 4 races that were different each year?”
        – Istanbul Park, Indianapolis, Buddh International Circuit, and Circuito de Jerez.

        1. @jerejj – As an Indian, I would like the idea of F1 visiting Buddh once every few years, instead of being a regular fixture. That would make it noteworthy enough to attend (air pollution permitting).

      2. Mount Panorama , Nordschleife, Dijon-Prenois, Mosport

        1. Mount Panorama

          Lol

            1. I have mentioned Phillip Is several times. I really dont see why not. Bathurst is too fast for F1, especially in the wet. Phillip island is fast yet safe(ish). And they have penguins :)

      3. Estoril, Portimao, Boavista and Vila-Real

        1. maybe, if we want to go crazy, rampa da falperra

          1. There’s no way they’d race at any of those except Portimão. The other circuits aren’t up to F1 standards of safety. And Portimão with current F1 cars is probably boring as all hell, and that’s not to mension the issues with getting that many people into hotels in the region.

            1. I can make my place available

      4. @racerdude7730 Buddh, as an Indian, Istanbul Park, Kuala Lumpur and Jerez. Alternating these would be great!

      5. @racerdude7730 The problem with that idea is that why would a circuit owner/promoter want to spend money to get an infrastructure in place, a circuit upto scratch & promote an event if they may only get it once every few years.

        Circuit owners & promoters like stability, They like knowing they can promote a race each year & hopefully build a loyal fanbase who will come year year. If your only having a race one every 2-3+ years it makes it harder to promote & harder to retain a fanbase.

        One of the issues both Hockenheim & Nurbrurging had since 2007 is that the alternating dates hurt both in terms of attendance as fans who in the past were going to 1 of the venues every year ended up not going to the other & due to the venue they were going to having a year off it made them less likely to go back the following year as they weren’t seeing the promotion & marketing push they had been seeing from the venues each year that were pushing you to pick up tickets for the race there the next year.

        Oh & there’s zero chance they would ever race at Surfers Paradise as not only is it completely unsuitable in terms of infrastructure but the track isn’t long enough anymore (1.7 miles I believe with the Supercar series doing 70 second laps, F1 would be well under 60) & due to the building of local tram lines that led to them shortening it they can’t run the old long Indycar layout anymore.

    5. Don’t agree with NESN. Alfa in, is a very cheap way of maximizing what Ferrari still has in f1, you could say it’s a last ditch effort to keep Ferrari in f1. If it’s not worth to have Ferrari and now the Alfa name in F1, the FIAT Chrysler group are going to leave F1.

    6. Kvyat just has psychological issues. His raw speed was there until his confidence was destroyed. He was already in a bad place before his demotion, in his mind, over-driving the car, crashing allover the place. A year away, some other racing series, he’d be good at some kind of racing + he should really get a sports psychologist.

      1. @jureo

        I agree that Kvyat has lost the mental edge that he had. I honestly believe that he would perform better outside the Red Bull stable, which has been pretty toxic for him over the past 2 seasons. If Kubica doesn’t get the Williams drive, I would like to see Kvyat in that second seat. I think a fresh environment might do his confidence and mental state some good.

    7. It’s crazy to think, Kvyat is still 2 years younger than someone like Vandoorne, who has only made his full season debut this year.

      Kvyat can go to Super Formula next year (where Vandoorne was at the same age), get his confidence back and mature a bit, and easily become a Williams/Force India level driver in 2019 – at the same age that Vandoorne came into F1 as a full-time driver. If he starts performing to his potential again after that, who knows – he definitely had some glimpses of real talent, and gave Ricciardo a good go, up until Sochi in 2016.

      Red Bull undoubtedly did the right thing when they sacked him, as Verstappen is on another level, and Kvyat was just costing them points due to crashing both him and his teammate(plural, if you count Toro Rosso) every now and then. But a change is as good as a holiday, and he seems like a nice kid, so I hope he gets another shot.

    8. So by their own admission Stroll had a better season than Bottas!

      1. I don’t know how each came to their conclusion, but Bottas needs to raise his game by considerably if he wants to retain his seat in 2019. He certainly needs to be critical of his performance or he won’t be able to beat Hamilton.
        Stroll, on the other hand …

    9. Many people believed Sergio Marchionne was bluffing when he suggested Scuderia Ferrari could pull out of Formula One. And he now has proved them right.

      Ferrari could still pull out as an independent team and continue they way they started back in 1929.
      #Catch22 how to badge the engine though ;)

      1. I think you’re out by 10 years mate (it was 1939 Ferrari became a “thing”). In any event, it was all Alfa Romeo machinery until 1947.

        1. Oooh. 1947 – 2017. 70 years exactly since Alfa machinery gave way to bespoke Enzo machines. Do you believe in coincidences?

    10. Bottas rates his season 7.5/10. I rate it 7.158/10. Seriously.

      Me and a friend rate every driver’s performance from 1-10 in every race. Over the course of the season, his average is 7.158.

    11. I think if F1 wants to appeal to an American audience enmasse then he has to have a circuit that attracts American attention and interest. As the COTD piece stressed, street circuits were used by F1 twenty five years ago and failed to make an impact. F1 has to be bold, and a second grands prix in America has to stand out in the series.
      The way Liberty could do that would be having an F1 event on an oval, a superspeedway, one such as Daytona for instance that is known to all motorsports fans worldwide. It would cross boundaries, and attract fans possibly from other series such as NASCAR for example.
      The decision to host a night race in Singapore a decade ago was a decision that F1 got right. It was a bold decision and a unique event at the time for the sport. Other series had held night races for years, but it was new to F1, and a street circuit to boot. The sport needs to experiment instead of having events at the same Tilkedromes like they have been doing, where the circuit could be anywhere as they all look the same and lack character.

      1. You won’t ever see F1 race on an oval because an F1 car simply isn’t designed to be run on an oval.

        Indycar’s for example are heavier than F1 cars in part because they have different safety requirements in order to run on ovals. Also a lot of components are different to withstand the different forces that are exerted on a car on an oval as well as the different requirements from running on a high banked track, And of course the aero package is totally different not just in terms of the wings but also the floor.

        With Indycar been a spec series the teams are supplied the parts for the different configurations, In F1 with each team building there own cars having to create an oval package would just add unnecessary cost as they would probably have to basically come up with a completely different car which simply wouldn’t be worth the R&D time or cost’s for a once a year thing.

        The only ovals that F1 could realistically look at is the shorter/low banked one’s like Milwaukee, But even then safety would be a concern.

    12. Surfer’s Paradise? Bring it back to the fans with the original Australian street track, Adelaide. It’ll never happen, but one can dream.

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