Lewis Hamilton says he is pleased grid girls will appear at the Monaco Grand Prix this weekend.
F1 commercial rights holders Liberty Media ended the practice of using walk-on grid girls ahead of the 2018 season. F1’s managing director of commercial operations Sean Bratches said the grid girls custom “does not resonate with our brand values and clearly is at odds with modern day societal norms.”
However one F1 sponsor has said it will have its own grid girls and grid guys in Monaco this weekend. During today’s FIA press conference Hamilton said grid girls are a part of what makes the Monaco Grand Prix.“I think women are the most beautiful thing in the world,” Hamilton said. “When we pull up on the grid and there’s beautiful women on the grid, that’s the Monaco Grand Prix, that’s a lovely thing.”
“But I definitely don’t think we should ever be supporting or pushing these women in general to feel uncomfortable and if they are then they shouldn’t do it.”
“I think Monaco is a very elegant grand prix,” he added. “I don’t know how women feel about it. I’ve not really ever spoken to women how they feel about the whole situation so I can’t really comment.”
Hamilton previously praised the return of grid girls on social media, then later said he “couldn’t care less” about the change.
Formula One introduced the Future Stars programme, where children who participate in motor sport join the drivers on the grid, to replace grid girls. Other sports have begun phasing out the use of walk-on girls.
But Sebastian Vettel believes the discussion around grid girls in F1 has been blown out of proportion.
“I think the whole thing has been blown up, probably [unnecessarily] because I don’t think any of the grid girls in the past were forced to do it. I think they enjoyed what they were doing.
“I agree with Lewis: I like women, I think they look beautiful. If it was guys I was just not interested. Nothing against those guys, just didn’t care as much.
“But bottom line I think it’s too much of a fuss nowadays. I think all the women that took part as a grid girl in the past did it because they want to. So I’m sure you ask any grid girl on Sunday whether they’re happy to stand there the answer will be ‘yes’. I don’t think there’s anybody that forces them to do it. It speaks a little bit of our times that sometimes there’s a lot of noise for nothing.”
Romain Grosjean said he welcomed the decision to phase out grid girls.
“It’s busy on the grid anyway you don’t see much difference,” he said.
“When it was removed I thought it was a good thing for women in the 21st century because they were not used as just a board holder. Monaco, being always a special one, are doing something different.”
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Garns (@)
23rd May 2018, 15:19
+50 Lewis, a bit of glamour, when done with some class and respect to women adds to F1.
Gabriel (@rethla)
23rd May 2018, 15:36
So no grid girls then?
GS (@gsagostinho)
23rd May 2018, 16:08
+1
socksolid (@socksolid)
23rd May 2018, 20:04
Women should not be allowed to work as pitgirls because YOU find it disrespectful to women?
Niefer
24th May 2018, 0:40
+1
Homerlovesbeer (@homerlovesbeer)
24th May 2018, 1:19
Lewis and Seb are simply saying what probably about 95% of us are thinking (even if they are not that elegant in doing so.)
I think a lot of people are confusing admiring a woman’s beauty with raging hormone driven lust and objectification.
Michael Brown (@)
24th May 2018, 1:40
I respect women every day. Sometimes multiple times per day.
Matteo (@m-bagattini)
23rd May 2018, 15:34
I’m with Romain this time, good and on-point comment.
Fishingelbow (@fishingelbow)
23rd May 2018, 23:13
“I think women are the most beautiful thing in the world,” says it all.
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FlatSix (@)
24th May 2018, 7:22
@fishingelbow If he were to say it in his own native language I’m sure the father of two children wouldn’t use the word ‘thing’. Also people say for example ‘Love is the most beautiful thing’ in the world, whereas love isn’t really a thing either…
stefan
24th May 2018, 8:37
According to the article Hamilton said it..
BasCB (@bascb)
24th May 2018, 19:25
yeah, @flatsix, your argument goes astray as stefan mentions, as I am pretty sure that Lewis WAS saying that line in his own native language (i.e. in English).
FlatSix (@)
24th May 2018, 19:27
@bascb I thought it was Grosjean who said it. Still I believe you’re reading to much into it, like Hamilton really believes woman are things.
BasCB (@bascb)
24th May 2018, 19:34
@flatsix, Sorry but I have not commented on that at all, so you really cannot conclude anything about my reading something into what Hamilton said.
I just wanted to support Stefan when correcting your notion that there must have been a “mistranslation” partly responsible for how that one came out.
FlatSix (@)
25th May 2018, 7:03
@bascb Hehe, yeah I know, I meant the last part as a clarification, not so much aimed at you.
RB14
23rd May 2018, 15:47
Bravo Lewis and Seb!
Travis (@)
23rd May 2018, 15:49
I’m sorry, but Hamilton’s comments are just so wrong.
It could be me growing up with three sisters and having two daughters, but the whole grid girl thing and the (in the past) line of girls clapping as the winning three would walk to the podium just made shudder, particularly when my youngest would ask why they are there.
And if you think there is no issue, why was there the uproar when there were the grid guys?
KGN11
23rd May 2018, 16:12
Now that you’ve stated why Lewis is wrong, care to do the same for Seb?
Josh (@canadianjosh)
23rd May 2018, 16:15
The clapping girls made you shudder? Wow.
avl0
24th May 2018, 0:21
it really triggered them but it was ok because they were in a safe-space surrounded by like minded right-thinkers
matt
24th May 2018, 11:18
He´s obviously a beta male, I expect he is the youngest and his 3 sisters bullied him.
mrfill
23rd May 2018, 16:32
But where will women now be able to get vital training in holding sticks with signs on now? Another valuable opportunity to display their extraordinary skills taken away.
[TR]
23rd May 2018, 16:39
You’re wrong. The training came before. F1 is the pinnacle of sign-stick holding.
Thecollaroyboys (@thecollaroyboys)
23rd May 2018, 22:18
They could work on a raid crew holding the STOP/SLOW lollipop. (A common sight here in Sydney.)
Thecollaroyboys (@thecollaroyboys)
23rd May 2018, 22:19
road, damn auto collect
cm-cm
24th May 2018, 2:29
Yeah except NOBODY made a fuss over grid guys… I didn’t even notice until it was brought up during the grid girl abolitionist movement.
The fact that this all started because the wife of someone in a position of power objected says it all. What’s next, their daughter complaining about the noise so f1 is now pedal powered? Anything to keep a family man happy….
FlatSix (@)
24th May 2018, 7:23
@travis When your daughters asked why they are there I hope you replied ‘Because they want to, and they’re happy doing so, I hope one day you can find a job you also want to do, and are happy doing.’.
stefan
24th May 2018, 8:43
That would only explain why the individual is doing it. Nott why there is a need or what is the purpose of grid girls.
Will Wood (@willwood)
23rd May 2018, 16:23
Formula 1 is one of the only elite world sporting arenas where women are allowed by the rules to compete side-by-side against men, as equals.
That is a truly great thing, I believe.
Having the main visual representation of women in Formula 1 being either women in front of cars holding signs purely for something to gawp at or lining the corridors to the podium is unfair to the thousands or young girls and women who dream of one day being the first to climb onto the top step of that very same podium.
I agree with Grosjean. I think it’s beyond time when we should stop representing women this way and celebrate the growing number of women involved in the sport at the factories, in the garages, on the pit walls and even in the cockpit.
F1Bobby
23rd May 2018, 17:08
In what way is it unfair? You’ve a better case to say that it was unfair that the same “equality of opportunity” didn’t exist for the fellas.
Sad times when, unless your line of work is deemed “worthy” by liberal intellectuals, you’re denied the agency to pursue it.
Nige
23rd May 2018, 16:43
So Liberty Media will be removing cheerleaders from any event they are involved in.?
No, thought not. :/
wsrgo (@wsrgo)
23rd May 2018, 17:00
This….is seriously problematic. There’s nothing wrong with appreciating the beauty of a woman, but when you make sweeping general statements about one particular gender is always an issue, especially when it’s clearly not tongue-in-cheek.
I’m a fan of combat sports like MMA, and they use ring card girls there. Yes, many of those girls actually got into that because they liked the sport and one or two even transitioned to an in-ring competitor, but those are very rare. People inevitably bring up examples of fans of F1 among grid girls, but those are just that…examples, and isolated at best. Where are the numbers? The percentages? Logical conclusions should be drawn from mathematically and statistically sound techniques, not by non-random anecdotes.
There is of course, a new breed of people who brand everything as PC brigade, not dissimilar to a certain Head of State and Fake News. Unfortunately, the grid girl concept is steeped in a time where women were simply not treated at par with men on anything. It’s views like those which ostracised the likes of de Filippis and Lombardi. It’s view like that which were held by the great (but clearly and understandably anachronistic) Stirling Moss. To brand someone speaking out against chauvinism as ‘PC brigade’ is grossly unjust and misguided.
At the end of the day, I hope Liberty don’t get pressurised into making a backwards step of reintroducing grid girls. It shouldn’t matter if the 2 guys who want cheap boners at the start of races have 8 world championships between them. Look at the bigger picture. This is not a bubble
F1Bobby
23rd May 2018, 17:04
I hope they do.
budchekov (@budchekov)
24th May 2018, 2:15
Sure hope Naomi C shows up with her gal pals, always a highlight of the Monaco grid…..
CarWars (@maxv)
23rd May 2018, 17:19
I like transgenders, they are beautiful.
See what I did there…
Pat Ruadh (@fullcoursecaution)
23rd May 2018, 20:54
No. Please elaborate
avl0
24th May 2018, 0:24
You are literally surprised that men find women attractive.
I honestly just feel so sorry for you.
Niefer
24th May 2018, 0:56
Interesting that Filippis and Lombardi were competing among men when women were not treated at par with men.
Nowadays, with all that “enlightment” of paladins of equality, women are actually prohibited of working in whatever they want around the sport they like (or not, doesn’t matter after all).
Let’s imagine what’ll be the next genius move from LM… Maybe engineering some female quotas over the grid?
wsrgo (@wsrgo)
24th May 2018, 2:02
Back then there were several drivers who weren’t nearly as quick as the fastest in the field, and many were there to simply ensure the teams stayed afloat, got their sponsors some exposure, even if it was just to pre-qualify. I don’t think we’ve seen the best female drivers ever in F1, most of them were those who could afford it. In any case, de Filippis and Lombardi were ostracised by the rest of the grid and faced a lot of belittling and disrespect from the rest of the grid. These days, the chances of someone getting to the F1 grid having finished fifteenth in Formula 3000 is very low.
Niefer
24th May 2018, 2:43
You don’t respect slow guys. Ecclestone and Mosley, for instance, only found respect out of the cockpits. On another hand, a Michele Mouton got tons of respect in her field. We just didn’t happen to behold any top tier material yet, that’s all. When she do appears, the establishment will be the first to use the spotlights over her.
I agree, and the time will come. It won’t be as a result of any politics though, but pure talent.
That’s right. Boy or girl, it doesn’t matter.
Michael Brown (@)
24th May 2018, 1:41
Glad somebody here respects wamen
GtisBetter (@)
23rd May 2018, 17:18
I wonder if Lewis would look positive at it, if only black men were hired to do it. I highly doubt it.
Thomas
23rd May 2018, 19:38
Yes, but this is a sport with a majority male audience… so women can look elsewhere if they don’t like it, right? Also; just because women have requirements in their partners that focus a little less on the physical appearance (power, safety, prestige, being other clear, but not exclusive, qualifiers), and struggle to come to grips with male nature; it doesn’t mean that basic male needs are not valid: The sooner modern men get that well-intended but mistaken propaganda out of their heads and realize the true nature of the male-female relationship, the sooner we can have fun again :)
So give me back my ‘most beautiful things in life’. Considering they possess superior genes, and the intellect and the strength of character that enabled them to shape their appearance to their liking (it requires -effort- as most of us uglies know..), I promise I will not demean these mostly superior human beings in any way. Simply enjoy their voluntary presence at a sport I enjoy.
I fear we pursue equality, not truly for equality’s sake, but because being voluntarily paid to be pretty is outside the potential of the majority that make the noise and set the agenda. The lowest common denominator.
Yloops
23rd May 2018, 22:18
I can’t lie, I was siding with hamilton and seb, but then reading your comment as a black guy… I can’t help but agree with you.
No need for grid girls, reinforces stereotypes whatever they may be.
Bravo for changing my opinion on this.
David BR (@david-br)
23rd May 2018, 23:30
+1 I agree, excellently made point @passingisoverrated
Niefer
24th May 2018, 1:14
How being employed in a well waged job, while building professional relationships, travelling the world, and as a bonus having their beauty appreciated by anyone can be something bad or degrading?
“Ohhhhh it’s because it is white’s historical sport and bla, bla, bla…”
So, are any of you concerned about white girls cheerleading at historical black’s sport, like Basketball?
Geez, you ppl are impossible.
If Lewis was negative about your hypothesis while being positive with the actual fact, it would make him a hypocrite. We’re beyond the point where everybody noticed everyone’s the same regardless of color.
A good hint of that is a black dude is praised and regarded by many as one of the goats. And he’s not a prince from Wakanda. He’s started just a regular dude, like any of us.
BasCB (@bascb)
24th May 2018, 19:28
Nicely put @passingisoverrated!
frogster
23rd May 2018, 17:20
What I find most offensive in all this grid girl rubbish is people being offended on their ( grid girls ) behalf when they take no offence themselves. I mean, how far up your own backsides do you need to get before you realise how patronising you’re being.
I’m pretty sure the girls themselves find it quite humiliating that you people think they cant decide for themselves whether to participate in such things and need someone to tell them they’re being exploited.
Take a good look at yourselves and see how offensive you’re being towards these girls.
Krommenaas (@krommenaas)
23rd May 2018, 20:45
That’s because you simply don’t understand the argument against grid girls. It’s not about those particular girls needing to be saved or anything, that’s just not the issue.
DaveW (@dmw)
23rd May 2018, 21:46
No one is saying women can’t decide for themselves. Liberty is saying Liberty can decide for themselves not to have grid girls.
FlatSix (@)
24th May 2018, 7:27
@dmw That’s the thing often overlooked in this particular case. I’m not believing for a second grid girls were cut for some inequality fight, Liberty just cut them as a cost, a accounting factual saving, nothing more…
Niefer
24th May 2018, 1:47
+1, @frogster.
The issue is the “message” that it sends, right?
All this fuss only sends another kind of message: that women can only be encouraged to work in places filled by men.
Yeah, and they decided based on…? …that’s right, their values, as they state themselves, that does not cope with women working as grid girls. In other words, a well-established job was phased out because the “hi-horse” riders finds it wrong.
KGN11
23rd May 2018, 18:07
2 people where mentioned in this article and if anything Seb’s words were far more damning than Lewis, as went after those who were opposed to grid girls. But like with most things, Lewis’ words draws more attention, criticism and vilification.
Joe (@carbron)
23rd May 2018, 20:22
+1
I didn’t agree with Lewis completely, but I thought he was more reasonable than Seb.
Niefer
24th May 2018, 1:22
While I don’t find anything wrong about Lewis’ statement, maybe, just maybe, this could be a consequence about his own constant presence under the lights. Unlike Vettel, he likes to attract attention, so it’s kinda natural that it comes around the same way it goes.
I think it’s quite like the opinions of Messi and C. Ronaldo. They take different proportions because of their style.
On top of that, the headline is about his statement, and considering lots of ppl only reads’em to save time and come posting…
KGN11
24th May 2018, 4:06
The headline did exactly what it was meant to, and that’s to generate clicks & comments. Keith isn’t stupid, he knew exactly what he was doing when he made that headline.
“Unlike Vettel, he likes to attract attention”
You’re pretty much making excuses for Vettel, whose comments were worse than Lewis’.
Depailler
23rd May 2018, 18:22
Its not about whether the individual Grid Girls have chosen to do the job or not.
Its about the millions of kids watching. Boys or girls are being given the message that men can take part in the sport and are judged on how good they are, whilst women just have to stand around clapping and smiling.
Niefer
24th May 2018, 1:26
I wonder about the message the gridGIRLS sent to all of the boys who wanted to be modelling for career…
Michael Brown (@)
24th May 2018, 1:38
Think of the children!
Haven’t heard that rhetoric before.
RL
24th May 2018, 3:43
If F1 was about “the millions of kids watching”, continue the hand-wringing over seeing subliminal tobacco advertising, alcohol companies’ billboards and Romain Grosjean’s irresponsible driving.
Do people respond to the article, or to a five second glance at the headline?
Jere (@jerejj)
23rd May 2018, 18:37
I couldn’t care less either way, LOL.
MazdaChris (@mazdachris)
23rd May 2018, 18:41
“I think women are […] things”
Great job, Lewis.
ram (@)
23rd May 2018, 20:31
More thought police selective editing.
avl0
24th May 2018, 0:30
“I think women are the most beautiful thing in the world”
I think that’s just the english language, you cant really put a ‘humanifier’ word in there instead of thing without the sentence sounding unnatural, and since it was an unprepared verbal quote you should probably cut him a bit of slack.
Hahhahaha who am I kidding let’s go light the pitchforks
stefan
24th May 2018, 8:47
Most beautiful creatures ;-)
RL
24th May 2018, 3:43
Mate if you weren’t a thing you wouldn’t exist.
Paul Heppler (@paulheppler)
23rd May 2018, 19:02
Why not have a “Car Representative” … Wearing the car’s colours and number … Let the team pick one for each race … Romain’s mom … Fernando’s sponsor … Who cares … add it to the grid walk.
Thomas
23rd May 2018, 19:45
Because while it is a super nice approach which has a place in many important walks of life, for F1 it is also so *cutesy-cute* I might as well watch a ‘Dora the Explorer’ marathon. No. Just. No.
DaveW (@dmw)
23rd May 2018, 21:40
“I think Monaco is a very elegant grand prix,” he added. “I don’t know how women feel about it. I’ve not really ever spoken to women how they feel about the whole situation so I can’t really comment.”
So don’t comment until you ask some women how they feel about it!
Next step, get rid of the WAG-cams. I can’t stand (and my wife is incensed by) the director’s habits of cutting to WAGs, or apparently random, heavily made-up women in the garages, in the midst of action on the track. Watching a slow zoom-in on some lady in the stands while you can hear the cars going in the background makes my blood boil. U.S. broadcasters are even worse with this.
Keith Campbell (@keithedin)
23rd May 2018, 23:59
@dmw 100% agree with you on cameras cutting to WAG-cams (if that’s the term) and other celebrities’ reactions rather than watching the race. Even if there’s relatively little happening on track it makes me want to shout ‘I don’t care!’ at my TV every single time. If it’s true what you say about the US broadcasters then I can only pity anyone who has to watch those.
Gary
24th May 2018, 7:34
Nothing infuriates me more than when the camera focuses on a “celebrity” or someone’s girlfriend, usually Alonso’s latest.
Well, there is one thing worse, and that’s when Martin Brundle approaches these vapid “celebrities”, generally female, on his grid walk. Who gives a cr@p “who they are routing for”?
Girts (@girts)
23rd May 2018, 22:22
I think Hamilton and Vettel are both missing the point. Of course, no one forces the grid girls to sell their bodies and those ‘beautiful women’ (and men) will obviously keep using their looks to make money in other ways. F1 will not change that. I believe that different questions need to be asked here. Firstly, I have never seen F1 cars on adult websites so is there really a natural chemistry between F1 and that kind of business? Secondly, is F1 still a sport where macho men race the cars and sexy girls are just their prizes / toys? While many would say yes, I suspect the reality is different and more and more people are starting to realise it.
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
23rd May 2018, 22:34
@girts
How extensively have you researched this?
Girts (@girts)
23rd May 2018, 22:53
@keithcollantine Probably not extensively enough (shame on me). If I manage to find any F1-related content *there*, you will be the first to know, I promise.
…And today on RaceFans: WHY WE SKIPPED THE ‘GRID GIRLS’ PART
YellowSubmarine
24th May 2018, 0:18
hahahaha!
Bob C.
24th May 2018, 6:43
Ahhh, I foresee a whole new interesting category in the Daily Roundup….
Gary
24th May 2018, 7:35
Best retort ever!
Frasier (@frasier)
23rd May 2018, 23:05
The regressive left, up in arms again, but missing the point totally.
What we have here is a bunch of pretty girls who work very hard to look their best standing in front of men who work very hard to drive a machine around in circles faster than each other. This is not real life folks, it’s entertainment, pure and simple.
The real revolution should be getting more women to take up engineering and become the creators of the machines that determine which men get to stand on the podium after going around in circles for a couple of hundred miles. If and when they tire of that they can take their skills elsewhere and make a difference to society.
Leave the pretty girls and the obsessed men to do what they do best.
wsrgo (@wsrgo)
23rd May 2018, 23:58
@frasier Do you even know what ‘regressive left’ means? There’s nothing leftist/socialist about this.
avl0
24th May 2018, 0:34
I think he’s referring to the political populism in some western countries, particularly in younger groups that whilst retaining left leaning economic inclinations are fairly anti liberal in their pursuit of things like identity politics and hence are ‘regressive’ because everyone else tends to consider them fairly authoritarian and puritanical.
Mick
24th May 2018, 4:22
Stick all the grid girls in burqas/niqabs and everything will be ok
BigJoe
24th May 2018, 10:37
Don’t they already do this at races in M#slim countries? along with no alcohol on the podium. I’ve never batted an eyelid. These customs and cultures are fair enough. The modern feminist movement and unhinged thinking is not.
Frasier (@frasier)
24th May 2018, 7:50
@wsrgo I’ll leave you to explain what you think the regressive left is…
The left love to tell people what they can and cannot do, in spite of the activity being harmless. This is in contrast to the traditional liberal approach of equality of opportunity, outcome depends on the individual
stefano (@alfa145)
24th May 2018, 0:12
I’m all for grid girls, for cancelling them for the reason they were is the symptom of the real problem one would have liked to terminate, but a couple of those lines from Seb and Hamilton sound really badly worded and just…eww. Still, I can see where they come from, so no big deal. But, badly worded they are indeed.
swh1386 (@swh1386)
24th May 2018, 0:48
I can’t believe this debate rumbles on and on. Is formula one really so far up its own behind? Surely girl guys and girls in equal numbers are a perfectly simple solution to the issue and everyone is happy. Im sick and tired of the formula circus’ ‘David Brent’ approach to equality!
swh1386 (@swh1386)
24th May 2018, 0:49
*grid guys and girls
Homerlovesbeer (@homerlovesbeer)
24th May 2018, 1:14
Appreciating God’s beautiful creation, whether male/female, black/white/yellow/pink etc is wrong eh?
Rediculous age we live in where every minute facet of our lives must have some hideous hidden agenda. At what point do we start to question whether the very small offended minority are actually the ones out of touch? Not everything that goes on in the world is racially or sexually discriminatory.
Personally I’d love to see a combined grid of glamorous men and women representing all racial backgrounds appearing at all events to bring back the glamour the world is missing, the something special that we don’t tend to have in our daily lives.
Tristan (@skipgamer)
24th May 2018, 1:53
Who’s silly idea is it to allow sunglasses at these press conferences by the way? Ridiculously unprofessional. Are they really so desperate for sunglasses sponsorship dollars that they would hide the windows to soul in what is one of very few opportunities they have to connect with their fans around the world?
Niefer
24th May 2018, 2:03
Actually, he explained that in the press conference. The lights were so high that all four drivers on the table were wearing them. With less lights, they took them off.
Niefer
24th May 2018, 2:01
First of all, the grid girls job has nothing to do with the lack of female drivers on the field. Nor any pretense message.
Vettel is spot on: it is indeed blown out of proportion.
Hamilton is right as well, it is a lovely thing seeing a nice person working around at the courtesy of the event.
If it were a grid full of women and grid boys, the feeling would be the same. Nothing wrong about that.
It’s not like they work chained and dressed in a gold bikini, right?!
Maciek (@maciek)
24th May 2018, 2:46
So Hamilton says he hasn’t really spoken with women about the whole grid girls situation… am I the only one who finds that just a tad difficult to believe given all the brouhaha?
Andrew Robb
24th May 2018, 4:26
As a long time fan of Formula One I have to say that I tend to ignore the numerous moral conundrums that litter the sport, but this is one that (in my current state) I feel too strongly about to ignore.
Firstly, the use of women as tools for “glamour” is really a nuanced issue that should be left for philosophers and sociologists and not racing drivers. But I still feel disappointed with the lack of nuance in the drivers response to the question of grid girls inclusion.
There can be no question that inequality is one of the most fundamental problems in society. Hamilton has highlighted racial inequality in the past, and financial inequality in this press conference as serious issues. But sexual inequality, as really the fundamental issue in this debate, was largely ignored in this instance. Only Grosjean attempted to really pay any attention to the issue.
Formula one as an issue with sexual inequality. Anybody glancing upon the grid will struggle to see see the tiny minority of women. The technical staff and drivers are almost all male. This is a problem for society, There is no scientific reason why women can’t fulfill these roles. It is purely cultural.
These issues are cultural and often beyond the scope of the Formula One management. But here, the inclusion of women as pure objects of “beauty” among a sea of male technical staff is within the realms of control. The act of removing women as purely cosmetic objects goes a small way to righting the problem and influencing future generations.
Women’s bodies are not cosmetic props, they are not advertising tools. They should be seen in exactly the same way the men on the grid are seen. The problem of sesual inequality in Formula One, engineering, the automotive industry and society as a whole cannot be tackled until we acknowledge this.
Although I have iterated that that drivers should not be expected to have serious opinions on the matter I felt seriously disappointed by Hamilton and Vettel in particular during this line of questioning. It felt to me like they were trying to boost their machismo rating, rather than tackle the debate. “Women are beautiful” is not an invalid opinion, but entirely irrelevant and moreover problematic in this debate. It is pure objectification of the female form.
Phylyp (@phylyp)
24th May 2018, 5:16
It makes me wonder, if Liberty Media had stated they were doing away with grid girls as part of optimizing operational expenses, then would we still hear people complaining that people were being denied an opportunity to work, and some of the other reasons given?
jamesluke2488
24th May 2018, 5:56
In a rare matter of agreement with Seb! I think he has hit the point spot on. Banning grid girls in itself deliberately excludes women who chose and enjoyed being grid girls for many years.
For me to gain true equality the introduction of grid man alongside would make more sense. Seb says he isn’t interested in grid men, well as a straight man I think his point makes sense! But there are a growing number of women who watch F1 who would be interested in grid guys. I have many female friends that would be happy to see this!
So much time is spent on making women equal by trying to ban objectification because apparently in degrades women. It doesn’t never has it’s the lack of female opportunities with engineering and drivers which is the problem. Banning grid girls won’t do anything to help female drivers. We are human whatever gender, likes to look at attractive members of the opposite gender or their own gender. Makes no difference. Stop focusing on grid girls and focus on opportunities for women that will achieve equality.
Vettel fan 17 (@)
24th May 2018, 6:47
Wait, I’ve got an idea! What if we just put a base on the signs so that they can stay upright by themselves??
Like honestly, I couldn’t care less if it was a dummy standing there. It’s a sport not some glamor show. What, do driver need to see some beautiful woman before they begin to race otherwise they can’t concentrate? Just put a sign showing the drivers number and name and leave it be. No need for someone to hold it. If you want to see women, there’s a thing called the Internet.
Bob C.
24th May 2018, 10:49
I sometimes wonder, too: can’t drivers not locate their own car without someone holding up a sign?
I mean: “I drive a Ferrari(*). That is a RED car. There are two red cars. Now, let’s see, which one is mine? Nope. Can’t do. HEEEEELP”
(*) randomly picked. Could have been one of the two YELLOW cars, one of the two PINK cars etc.
FlatSix (@)
24th May 2018, 7:32
God forbid parents are responsible for raising their own children, no, they must get all their ideas from media and absolutely not be taught to think for their own, taught to show respect for every human being, and that’s how you get the masses in the USA who somehow without being able to provide one working example, believe in socialism.
Maciek (@maciek)
24th May 2018, 11:49
Rock solid logic there @flatsix. No grid girls equals socialism, grid girls equals responsibility, can’t think of a single argument to dislodge that line of thinking. In fact I’m putting an ad in the paper to hire a few women (hey, not the ugly ones) to stand around and smile while I start my day at work – because I fight for freedom.
FlatSix (@)
24th May 2018, 13:28
@maciek Look, the job of a grid girl in the sense that she’s holding something in front of the car is absolutely pointless, and I couldn’t care less whether they’re present or not. However, the idea that they must be abolished because it hurts my daughter at home watching them, or that it even offends other women, isn’t a proper reason to take these jobs away from women who’re doing it out of free will. Then it’s the case of the parent teaching his daughter respect for all lines of profession, or for that adult to get a grip in life.
Let me ask it this way, considering 99% of all garbage collectors are men, do you think we should abolish them too because I don’t want my sons to see them every week and think that’s all he can become? No, I teach my son garbage collectors are pivotal in our society and these men chose to do this as a job to create an income for their families, and if my son is happy being a garbage collector himself, who am I to stop him.
I realise grid girls aren’t as important to society, if at all, but what on earth has it become to the small minority who feels offended can dictate how others must lead their lives.
Quick recap; I don’t care for grid girls, I care for the underlying idea that a small group of people can have this big of an impact in such a nonsensical matter and continue to be heralded as heroes of freedom.
Maciek (@maciek)
24th May 2018, 22:33
Your garbage collectors comparison is very silly and I think you know it @flatsix. You may well teach your son that they chose the job, but most people who do garbage collection don’t do it because it’s so dang attractive, but because for a number of personal and socioeconomic reasons other options just aren’t there for them. The point with grid girls is that they are a holdover from a past era when women’s role was basically to ‘support men’. I think that if you have a minimum of historical consciousness about where gender relations used to be for a very long time in our Western societies and where they are now, then I honestly don’t see how you can argue for keeping grid girls. I’m pretty sure that back when some people argued that it was a sign of political correctness gone mad that public services shouldn’t be race segregated, but…times change.
FlatSix (@)
25th May 2018, 7:19
@maciek You’re missing the point. The point is it’s a free market, and people should be able to choose the job they want and if they can successfully finish the selection process you should be able to do what you want without others their opinion having any influence whatsoever.
What’s so bad with ‘supporting men’ by the way? There’s many roles where men support women too. Are nurses who support doctors also an idea of a past era and should be cancelled unless we reach a 50/50 in male/female surgeons? I’m fairly sure many wouldn’t want their daughters to grow up to be an adult performer, should we ban those jobs too? What about secretary jobs by enlarge a female dominant profession, they’re often also supporting men, cancel then?
I’m on purpose making it sound more ridiculous because you’re only narrative is that grid girls are offensive because they represent the ‘supporting role’ for men, whereas I try to convince you that’s not really a good reason to have a job cancelled and the precedent this potentially sets. I absolutely agree grid girls are pointless and wouldn’t care less if they stayed or went, but because some minority group got offended we’re all supposed to abide? That’s what I don’t agree with, and that’s a genuine trend. For example this week in my country the building of a parking complex that attracts new business and would boost existing business is cancelled because one guy didn’t want the entry to that parking lot in his street. Beginning of this year the biggest fair in our country had to be moved to a much less desirable location (resulting in big losses for all marketeers) because in total 4 neighbours didn’t like the noise, despite the fact all 4 came to live in the neighbourhood in the last couple of years and the fair has been there for decades.
The term political correctness is also not really used so well in your example. The concept of it indicates an idea that is so idiotic just to be sure you’re not offending anyone wherever for whatsoever. Not make sensible decision like having laws about guns, or immigration, or healthcare. Political correctness is people being offended because I as a male don’t want to date transgenders for example.
Maciek (@maciek)
25th May 2018, 22:19
My point @flatsix is that equal opportunity is nice as a theory, but it’s just simply not true in the real world. I think you know well what I meant about women’s past role of supporting men as general rule, not as a chosen line of work. All the arguments that I’ve seen for keeping grid girls, including yours, seem to take it as a basic axiom that grid girls should exist as if it was somehow natural law and that only political correctness fanatics want to get rid of them – but who says that they should have been there in the first place? What is that based on exactly? It’s simply BS that it’s a signal of some dangerous trend to replace them with something not sexist – it’s an outdated institution and as is is the case at one point or another with all outdated institutions, they become irrelevant to a majority of people and we move on to other things – because it’s also BS that some fanatical feminist minority is behind this, it’s simply a sign of the times that most people (yes, I said most people) agree that there’s something off about women standing around as decoration while men do actiony things.
FlatSix (@)
26th May 2018, 7:25
@maciek I’m sorry, I simply cannot agree to the idea grid girls somehow represent oppression. We’re talking about the job as if they were forced to stand there at gunpoint and not free choice which free market is all about. There was a demand from F1 and these models presented the supply, both parties benefitted from it and that’s the story.
The reason I’m fairly sure we’re talking about a minority being offended here is because simply nobody had an opinion about it before it came up as a question. It’s not like the masses were fighting to get rid of them for years. What bothers me most is that the entire thing was even started by women who don’t even watch F1 or care for the sport.
You’re already assuming it is sexist. I simply don’t agree with that. It’s a job just like many others, it’s a small minority just persistent on seeing it as a symbol of oppression.
See, that’s because you choose to see it as a derogatory job, instead you could’ve chosen to see it as a normal job where women perform a modelling job like many others. Especially the fact almost every single grid girl interviewed had no issue with it whatsoever should tell you that. So again, it comes down to a small minority being offended by something non existent that doesn’t even concern their little ideological world and it must change for the benefit of the entire world.
Let’s end it here, we’re not going to agree but enjoyed the talk.
Maciek (@maciek)
26th May 2018, 7:39
@flatsix I’m not sure where in my comments you find the idea that grid girls are forced into the job…because it’s not there. No one forced black people in the US to shine white’s shoes back when either, but it didn’t make it a good thing and even if you try to paint it as a supply and demand thing, which you could, but it wouldn’t make it a good thing. And frankly if you can’t see that having women stand around as decorative background for actiony action manly men, then yes, you’re very right, we will not agree.
BigJoe
24th May 2018, 10:32
Meanwhile… West Hollywood has just given a female P#rn Star who had an affair with a married man ‘The Keys to the City’
You couldn’t make up the stuff the l#ony-left come up with. They are simply polite F#scists. This culture and their m#ntality needs rejecting at all costs. Don’t fall for them calling you m#sogynist or r#cist for having a different view.
Europe and the USA have adequate laws in place for equality and di#crimination. M#slim countries prefer people not to show off too much skin and decent people already abide by this.
BigJoe
24th May 2018, 10:53
Maybe F1 teams and TV companies involved should be required to employ fat girls for their PR/media and customer/audience facing roles?
Note how all the women other than grid girls working within F1 are also chosen for their looks, which means a less agreeable looking person is discriminated against at the interview stage.
Remember we are being socially conditioned by the likes of the BBC and Channel 4 who are on the female equality/promotion bandwagon, yet they are hypocrites. When was the last time you saw an ugly or overweight presenter or ‘weather girl’….let alone an equally paid one.
As I’ve noted before. There is a natural attraction for good looking women to attend F1 races already. Look at the grid walks and the women in the grandstands near the start line who the TV cameraman zoom in to. All glamorous looking women and girls who’ve made an effort to be seen.
FlatSix (@)
24th May 2018, 13:34
-Beauty is perception of and in the eye of the beholder.
-Gender pay gap is a myth, it’s always represented as an average of all males and all females, a good study on the differences between people in similar jobs with similar experience under similar conditions has actually never been done, or not as far as I know and if it does exists I’m happy to read.
And it’s so damn important that we all feel bad about it instead of just letting it be because in the real world it isn’t harming anyone who can think for themselves and isn’t letting his life being led by magazines and TV or Facebook. I’ve been to dozens of televised motorsports events and not once have I been on the screen, I’m this close to being offended about it…