Max Verstappen, Assen, Toro Rosso, 2015

Verstappen hopes Dutch GP won’t be on another street track

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In the round-up: Max Verstappen says he hopes if the Dutch Grand Prix returns to the calendar it is on a permanent road course rather than a street track.

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Assen, 2014
F1 hasn’t raced at Assen before

What they say

TT Circuit Assen and former Formula 1 Zandvoort have been mooted as potential venues for the Dutch Grand Prix, which was last held in 1985. Verstappen said he would be happy with either venue:

I would chose a permanent track. I think we already have enough street circuits on the calendar and anyway I like permanent tracks more. And then I don’t care where it is.

Quotes: Dieter Rencken

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Comment of the day

Have some been too quick to praise Halo for the role it played in protecting Charles Leclerc?

I think it would be difficult to determine whether he would have been killed without the halo. However an alternative question is would he have been hit on the head without the halo, because he would have survived with complete certainty if he wouldn’t have been hit. I think this is an easier question to answer and I hope a full investigation will answer it.

I feel the justification is needed. The battle to improve safety should be ongoing and the motorsport community needs to be looking for better, safer solutions to protect the driver rather than standing still. That’s why it’s important to conduct an investigation rather than close the debate into the halo. This is the first iteration of a cockpit safety device and I hope in the future they improve it because that will lead to better safety.
George O’Donnell (@georgeod)

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Keith Collantine
Lifelong motor sport fan Keith set up RaceFans in 2005 - when it was originally called F1 Fanatic. Having previously worked as a motoring...

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67 comments on “Verstappen hopes Dutch GP won’t be on another street track”

  1. Ready COTD
    The fact the happy is on the car means it’s bound to make contact with any debris, car or parts from cars.
    The fact Alonso’s car was launched from behind and slightly to the side, was already a good thing for the Sauber, because it meant the cars had virtually similar momentum as the Macaroni had already struck the right rear of the Sauber, the only potential danger was the mass of the car.
    From replays we see that it was the front right tire of Alonso’s Mclaren that made contact with the halo.
    So in this accident, Leclerc would have been fine perhaps a slight grazing of the helmet.
    But in all still good the halo was there because a slight change in the dynamics could have presented a different problem.
    The Wicken’s Indy accident was one where the halo would have been beneficial. Because the rapid rotation of the cars post impact with the debris fencing presents am immediate danger to cars close by.

    1. happy=halo

      1. Mclaren, now macaroni .
        Auto correct doing wonders.

        1. Actually, that last one is justified.

    2. Last weekend I was there at Spa and it was the first time for me to see the cars driving around with a halo on top.

      While there is no denying that the halo gives more safety, I do hope that the next iterations provide a better view of the driver. For me it felt like a closed cockpit and I couldn’t see the helmets properly, making is difficult to see who the driver was (the yellow/black difference between cars is something you only can see on TV). Also the driver number on the back wasn’t as clear to see as I hoped. I didn’t have this problem a few years back attending the Singapore GP.

      So, all in all a difficult situation as Liberty is trying to make the sport more attractive and entertaining, but at the same time the connection between fans and drivers-on-track is made worse.

      1. For me it felt like a closed cockpit and I couldn’t see the helmets properly

        @favomodo – Good to hear an opinion from someone who was trackside. I can sympathize – the places where viewers sit trackside is higher, and this places the halo’s bar in line with your view of the driver’s helmet, unlike the trackside cameras which are placed lower and allow us to see under the same bar.

        1. Track side i always manage to see the yellow and black camera color easily. Also what i use for TV.

          Numbers, helmet colors have always been more difficult to follow.

  2. Ofcourse verstappen doesn’t want street circuits, they are drivers circuits and he keeps crashing on them.

    1. Yes, that why Merc, Fer, RBR and every other team wants him in their car..

  3. Pathetic from Stroll, hope the journo’s rip into him and F1 management implement a new structure to prevent this farcical situation in the future. Far, far worse than Verstappens early promotion at a young age. Demanding respect for your achievements when you’ve been handed everything on a silver platter is simply pathetic.

    F1 are digging themselves a grave with everything going on and now this. Who wants to watch the richest spoilt brats playing games with nothing on the line? Where’s the adversity? The heroes against all odds? The narrative is absolutely uninspiring… Even those commentating to the majority of viewers take the time to express how utterly terrible it is.

    If he thinks the Force India team are going to be inspired to be the best for a rich guy so his son can have a drive he’s gotta be having a laugh. Or maybe just has no idea at all having been wrapped up in his cocoon with no life experience.

    1. I really, really don’t want to hate Stroll, but I have to agree. Verstappen got promoted to F1 so young because he was good enough, but Stroll is so far detached from reality on that note to the point it isn’t even funny. He’s had his dad buy damn near every team he’s raced for, and with Lawrence’s billions, was it ever a surprise they’d be able to give Lance a fast car?

      I really hate to say it, but I won’t be surprised to see Force India (or whatever they’ll be called) take a nosedive next season. After all the adversity they’ve had to deal with this season, it’s really galvanized them as a whole, and I could very much tell that organization is working with a fire in them that not even Mercedes and Ferrari have. But now that the billionaire and his son are coming to town, and said son will, beyond any doubt, be #1 driver, how can they work with the same passion? Even though they’re still on the outside looking in, the Force India people certainly have a better grasp on the politics in the Williams garage over the past year and a half better than we fans do, and I reckon Lawrence Stroll probably got his way more often than not. Now that he’s an owner, I can’t imagine Perez or Ocon, whoever stays, will get similar treatment to Lance.

      My guess? Expect a mass exodus of Force India staff over the next 2 years.

      1. Hasn’t it already started…?

        1. Technically yes, but that was due to monetary constraints while they were deep underwater. The exodus I mentioned was more a culture change within the team, going from plucky small budget team to “Lance’s High Speed Daycare”.

          1. I agree with you. I was referring to Bob’s unexplained, and officially unmentioned departure… Did he jump or was he pushed…? Nobody seems to be asking this question, or even trying to interview the man…
            And, wherever he moves to, I feel sure he will have dozens of ‘key’ personnel happy to follow him.
            I think what you said is probably correct – I was just querying that it will take as long as two years. I feel it has already started… And I hope ‘Citizen Stroll’ lives to regret it.
            However, if, as suspected, Merc takes a bigger role in Force Stroll, it could become Force Wolff… and Toto might do a Brawn… with Ocon doing a Button… which would be better than the current prospect.

          2. I was referring to Bob’s unexplained, and officially unmentioned departure

            +1 to this BlackJackFan , and I too am one who would like to know in the coming days the circumstances behind this. If Bob left of his own desire and free will, then I’m happy for him. If not, then as you rightly say, he was a key player in making Force India what they were, and will do doubt have at least one layer of people following him out, if another team picks him up.

          3. Well Bob Fernley was Vijays ‘Man at the track’ so it was hardly surprising the he was the first out the door.

          4. Hi Asanator – you may be right but it still intrigues me that we don’t seem to know if it was Bob’s choice or ‘Stroll’s’ – and the media don’t seem to be bothering to ask – neither him nor Force India. Compare this with Boullier’s departure, and the amount of media coverage that incident garnered… Even Mr Key’s transition, which is a simpler story, has had more coverage…
            Should one suspect some ‘dodgy’ dealing between Bob and VJ…?
            “Silence is golden…” is only true in the song… lol.

    2. I don’t have too much of a problem with a race driver backed by very wealthy individuals because we can’t do anything about it. Life is an unequal struggle. Max Verstappen can drive a car competently and was sought after by a few racing teams.
      Stroll on the other hand is taking a fire hose to a water pistol fight.
      We talk about arrogant drivers a lot, but that is more about drivers confident in their ability. But for Stroll his confidence comes from being able to buy a driver out of his race seat.
      They are treating F1 like a video game. .
      What next to further his career, buy all the TV rights so they only get to show him.

    3. I used to think that we have to be grateful for the likes of Stroll and the deep pockets behind him, because if if he has to drive for a certain team (and pump millions into it) in order to save it from going bankrupt and disappear from a grid, then it’s a neccessary price the sport has to pay.

      If we take the Baku podium out of the equation, his 2017 against a fading Massa is less than impressive, and I don’t see him convincingly holding the upper hand against Sirotkin this year. At the same time, we cannot blame him for the slump of Williams, they are steadily going downhill since 2014 even with more capable drivers onboard like Massa and Bottas, but certainly Stroll couldn’t contribute with expertise to pull the team out of this slump.

      And another thought, Force India might be safe for the time being, and I agree with you all, that they won’t be able show this strong performance in the long term, but what happens when Stroll consumes the last drops the team has in itself and moves on to another team? By this time Force India will not be such an attractive buy for anyone to save it. And what is going to happen to Williams now, without Strolls money? Maybe they can finish the season, but what happens after that?

      1. @andrewt I’m not grateful at all, quite the contrary. I don’t blame Stroll father for this though, I’m blaming f1 for this situation because it is too expensive and unequal.

        1. @spoutnik that’s a very valid point, but until the initial phases of prize money reallocation and budget cap don’t kick in, the likes of Stroll can throw a temporary lifeline to certain teams to even survive. I couldn’t agree more that F1 is unneccessarily expensive, favours the wealthy teams, puts all the others in a disadvantageous and almost hopeless situation. pumping money into certain teams is just like a pain killer, curing the disease would be the only valid solution in the long run, I just can’t see how the big teams would give up their position and agree to have the same sized cake slice as all the others.

          1. @andrewt indeed, what has been done for decades will not be easily undone. But seeing billionaire dads fighting over a drowning team and how Ocon will get the boot shortly is really depressing. Fortunately it’s not the teams that own F1 but Liberty. And if they have enough courage and vision they will enforce more fairness.

          2. @spoutnik absolutley agreed again, the problems will only arise when some teams will have enough of cutting their “rights” and threaten to exit the sport, and up until this point, no reformer dared to push things further when such threats emerged. both F1 and the teams have to consider who is depending on the other. obviously I wouldn’t want to lose traditional teams, but also wouldn’t want to keep them at all costs if they are blocking the way of a more sustainable, affordable and watchable Formula One.

  4. Stroll is an entitled rich kid.

    The kid has no pride.

    Letting Papa Stroll buy your way into F1 and then buy your way up the grid.

    It’s embarrassing enough to have your father effectively sponsor/bribe your way into a seat.

    Now he’s getting the old man to purchase an entire team in order to move up the grid.

    It’s like if you were an aspiring football player and having your dad buy Manchester City so you can get a game.

    1. Yeah it’s ruining the sport but if my dad could do it, I would do the exact same thing if I’m being honest.

  5. <blockquoteI would chose a permanent track. I think we already have enough street circuits on the calendar and anyway I like permanent tracks more
    I agree

  6. I would chose a permanent track. I think we already have enough street circuits on the calendar and anyway I like permanent tracks more.

    I agree.

  7. Regarding Lance Stroll, you maybe right he may suck big time but why don’t we judge after his first FI race…

    1. I’d think that for the first few races we’ll hear that he’s settling in to the car, integrating with the team, etc., and that will be used to excuse the performance differential we might see against Perez. And I strongly suspect this excuse (justifiable thought it might be in the initial few races) might run its course through to the end of the year. 2019 might be the year we truly get to measure Stroll.

    2. @dutchtreat
      Stroll hasnt earned a seat in F1 yet why should anyone wait with judging him?

    3. @dutchtreat
      Why don’t we just judge him after 33 races of Williams?
      He’s looked incompetent 95% of the time against his first team mate, whom many considered a third-rate driver in the last years of his career (unjustifiedly so, but still), showing virtually no signs of progress over the course of the season despite buying himself tons track time with a dedicated testing team on tracks all over the world.
      And now he’s performing pretty much on the same level as Sirotkin, his rookie team mate who was promoted to Williams primarily because of his sponsors and not because he did such an outstanding job in the junior categories. And, crucially, Sirotkin’s slowly but steadily gaining momentum and beginning to turn the intra-team battle around, which is a trait Stroll simply hasn’t exhibited so far.

      Why stop at Force India, for that matter? Put him in a Red Bull and let Verstappen drive a Sauber or something. What, you don’t like it? Why don’t you judge him after his first race/season/decade at Red Bull instead of complaining right away?

      With such an underwhelming history in the sport, why would a competitive team like Force India hire him and ditch one of their proven and promising drivers? Because it’s all about the money. Tons of fans are extremely upset about this (probable) move because it shatters the last bit of faith we have in the sport, the belief that, while money plays a disgustingly important role, the individual skill of each driver is what makes or breaks a career.
      But now we can see bright as daylight that this isn’t true. We can see a truly talented driver like Ocon losing his seat to a driver of questionable talent, because that driver’s billionaire progenitor bought the team for seemingly no other reason.

      I’ve reached the point where I’m starting to feel the need to compare Lance Stroll to Trump, which is a sign that I should wrap this comment up.

  8. [Max: ]I would chose a permanent track. I think we already have enough street circuits on the calendar and anyway I like permanent tracks more. And then I don’t care where it is.

    I’ve got to admire his forthrightness! :-)

  9. Mark Thompson’s tweet – any context as to why Hamilton was booed? Something specific he said post-race (“trick”?) or did in-race (I don’t recall), or just a general dislike from the crowd?

    1. @phylyp, there doesn’t seem to have been any clear reason beyond the sizeable contingent of Ferrari fans who hate Hamilton because he is the main threat to Vettel this season, and would probably have booed anybody who beat Vettel.

      1. Cheers, anon.

      2. Max aint booed when he beats Sebastian.

        1. @rethla
          Well, Max clearly isn’t a threat for Vettel’s title chances. In that respect, anon’s comment applies, though I strongly doubt it’s a cover-all explanation.

  10. Sure Lance. But you cannot deny that if not for your father buying the team, no one would consider it a good idea to replace Ocon at Force India, even less mid season. The only reason for that is that your father want’s YOU to have a better car, there are no considerations of whether it is good for the team spirits, it’s results etc.

  11. The fact Lance refers to his dad as ‘Lawrence’ is a bit jarring. Referring to him as ‘Dad’ perhaps doesn’t look great, but it’s better than “I hope Lawrence picks me, obviously” when we all know who he’s talking about. Nobody watching a post practice interview is under any allusions as to what the relationship is.

    1. @bernasaurus It’s from Claire Williams who calls her dad Frank and everyone is fine with it

    2. Daddy bought a team for me.. yeahh.

      Does it sounds better?

    3. That sounds like a bit of a stretch. When you’re in a public setting, and your dad is also your boss, I personally think referring to him by his first name is more proper, or at least much more professional.

      If Papa Stroll has any integrity, and Lance turns out to be bad (and there won’t be any excuses left once he’s in that Force India), then Lance has to go. At this point he’s boss first, then dad.

  12. califormula1fan
    28th August 2018, 7:14

    Ocon pushes Perez, they both do better. I hope Ocon moves go Williams and beats Stroll in every race from now until Stroll and his daddy withdraw from Formula 1.

  13. I think Kimi’s team radio compilation from Spa should have been in the round-up.

  14. The results you achieved in F3, ok fair play. The results you achieved in a Williams, hmm, well the cars not great.
    Ok, but the results you achieve in a Force India will confirm for once and for all when Perez wipes the floor with you!

    1. It aint enough that a retiering Massa wiped the floor with him?

    2. @eurobrun No, that’s not fair play!

      Daddy bought his son a ton of additional track time to test (private test team, hiring circuits etc) whilst his teammates (and the rest of the grid) only had the official tests. His dad also pumped a lot of money into his son’s team to ensure they had a better car than the competition. The year before that, Lance wasn’t as good driving for the same top F3 team (prema power) and apart from some regional and one national canadian championship, he doesn’t have an impressive karting career on the world and european levels at all.

      This kid has raced from his childhood years, sure, but has not been on the level of what a F1 driver should be and primarily progressed from karting to racing, then to F1 and now to FI because of his dad’s money.

  15. I, like all less 2, rate Ocon higher than Stroll. But I rate his quali in Monza higher than Ocon’s in Spa.

    PS didn’t read the interview, just offering an additional perspective to the many negative comments here.

  16. The Strolls are an embarrassment and a stain on the sport. Lance can drive a race car, obviously, but his success comes from his father throwing literally hundreds of millions of dollars against the effort and burying the competition. Lance Stroll, left to his own devices, might have been a top-ten Formula Ford competitor at your local SCCA regional. There are no comparisons with other “pay drivers” from the present or past as the orders of magnitude difference in size makes it a difference in kind.
    Liberty Media should be very concerned with this development.

  17. I know drivers have to motivate themselves, but at times their comments are borderline delusional

    How on earth is Ericsson arguing his last 5 races have been better than his teammate, and he scored double the points? While true, from the last 5 races his teammate only finished two, and they would be 1-1 if we only take those two into account.

    And spa was another poor showing from him, struggling to get past Hartley and should have at least finished ahead of Gasly as well.

    1. and should have at least finished ahead of Gasly as well.

      .. Absolutly.. that poor Gasly who only have 28 points and next year ends up in that B team RedBull. Shame on you Ericsson!

      1. Surely you can dig a little deeper than that no?

    2. @johnmilk
      I call it the ‘sucky driver who’s only there because of someone else’s money and therefore in desperate need of self-justification’ phenomenon. Not really a catchy name, I’ll admit that much.
      Drivers like Ericsson or Stroll subconsciously know they are blocking seats that could easily be taken by more competent drivers, so they grasp at every single aspect of their careers that isn’t a downright catastrophe and talk them up as if they were phenomenal achievements.
      Ericsson, like his fans, has been quick to adapt to the new situation that is characterised by his being dominated by Leclerc, and twisting it to his advantage. Virtually everybody now accepts that Leclerc is the real deal, so Ericsson acts like a parasite who feasts on his team mate’s reputation. And if, for some reason, there is a stretch of races in which Leclerc isn’t quite as dominant, or even slightly on his back foot due to a series of DNFs, Ericsson presents that as evidence of how great he really is, beating an up-and-coming star and so on.
      Most of us realise he’s only twisting the facts, cherry-picking his examples while selectively omitting important aspects, to portray himself in an entirely different light from what an unbiased observer would see just by looking at his season (or career) as a whole.
      I think that’s clever rhethorics, not delusion. He’s pushing a story that absolutely no one would tell if he didn’t, and it’s keeping his career in F1 alive. The only reason for his presence in F1 may be his sponsors, but they might decide to pull the plug if they felt they were embarrassing themselves. Ericsson’s fairy tales are clever enough to fool a few people who desperately want to believe in him, and at the end of the day, it’s getting the job done.
      But for how much longer?

      1. Ericsson isnt doing that though. Hes probably the most selfcritic guy on the grid judging from all the interviews and he never blames others.

        Hes closer to Charles now than he has been for the past months and that is a positive thing. Its not cherry picking.

        I know what you think about his drivingskills but dont make up things about his person to mock him even more.

        1. @rethla
          Then we haven’t been watching the same Ericsson or F1, I’m afraid.

  18. If Perez can hold his own against a talent like Ocon, what chance does Stroll have who couldn’t even beat a retiring Massa? Even if by some universal miracle Stroll is faster than Perez would anybody believe he beat Perez on equal terms and not because he gets the better stuff on the car first?

    And if Perez does decide to take his Mexican millions somewhere else, is there anybody desperate enough to take the ‘even more blatant than Mercedes and Ferrari number 2 seat?’

  19. I like Stroll. Good luck to you fella.

  20. Pretty sure Hamilton fans were the ones to introduce major booing to F1 a few years ago. Maybe mid-end 2015?

    1. Vettel was booed often during his Red Bull days. He even mentioned it in some podium interview how those booing fans go to every race.

      1. What’s next? Fans shouting “lock him up!”
        Sorry state of affairs in the world.

  21. Regarding the It’s Amazing how well Haas has managed to stay in the fight for fourth in the Constructors’ Standings given its budget compared to the likes of Renault (and also Mclaren although they’ve had their struggles for various reasons). I was expecting them to drop back once the development race truly kicks in after the early races of the season, but in the end, quite the opposite has happened.
    – I couldn’t agree more with Mark Thompson although I didn’t notice any booing myself.
    – Damon Hill’s tweet is spot on as well.

    1. Well done on them
      But the only reason Haas is still fifth is because Sahara Force India stopped; otherwise they would have overtaken Haas.

  22. re Mark Thompson’s tweet, I think the issue isn’t (entirely) with Lewis himself, it is due to the sustained dominance Mercedes has had since 2014. Sustained dominance turns people off.

    We saw Vettel getting similar (and from memory worse) treatment from fans during his 2012/2013 pomp. I wouldn’t boo an F1 driver, but I can see why casual fans would get frustrated by his long run of success and why they would make this known by booing. While I would generally say I support Hamilton rather Vettel, I am rooting for Vettel and Ferrari this year as I feel that them taking the titles would be the best possible result for the sport as a whole.

  23. Incredible arrogant statement from Stroll. But let’s analyze it: if he’ll prove to be good, it will be nice for the sport. If he’s bad, with his father’s money we have one more team around and one seat for another driver, which is good for the sport.

    Private teams need money and I don’t think that without paying drivers the situation would be better: we would have fewer teams, not more seats for talented drivers.

    That being said, every time I see him with that attitude in interviews (“you have to ask my father if they want me at Force India, ih ih ih”) I’d like to kick his face so hard that an halo would not be enough.

    1. every time I see him with that attitude in interviews (“you have to ask my father if they want me at Force India, ih ih ih”) I’d like to kick his face so hard that an halo would not be enough.

      @m-bagattini – LOLing at this :-D

    2. Now that would be a halo test I’d love to see… lmao.

  24. Thinking about that Damon tweet, he makes a good point that everyone who follows the sport already knows. Another thing that everyone knows is that f1 isn’t an old man sport. Why is Sky trying to turn it into one with their coverage? Channel 4’s by comparison is so much more exciting.

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