In the round-up: Red Bull team principal Christian Horner says Max Verstappen’s Mexican Grand Prix victory shows the team only needs a slightly more competitive power unit to be victory contenders.
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What they say
Horner hopes the team can be competitive more regularly with Honda power:
You’ve seen this weekend that if we have an engine that’s anywhere near the ballpark of our opponents then I think we’ve got a strong enough team and a strong enough driver package to take the fight to them.
We’re obviously hopeful that the Honda, with the progress that they’re making will put us into a situation that we’re more regularly able to compete like we are here with the optimum downforce on the car, the optimum setting on the car.
Quotes: Dieter Rencken
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Social media
Notable posts from Twitter, Instagram and more:
I want to send a huge thank you to the kids at Peartree school. Thank you for this message, really brightens my day when I watch it. Keep working hard guys, keep having fun and keep your eyes on your dreams and don’t let nobody tell you you can’t achieve something. #grateful pic.twitter.com/n4PlFgNqd2
— Lewis Hamilton (@LewisHamilton) November 5, 2018
Wolff saying @MercedesAMGF1 face a "big battle" from @ScuderiaFerrari in the constructors' is a bit of a stretch. They need 31pts to clinch it and are unlikely to finish lower than 5th/6th. Do that in the next two races and they'll bag 36pts and the title. #F1 #BrazilianGP
— Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine) November 5, 2018
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Links
More motor racing links of interest:
Unfinished business in Brazil (Mercedes)
"We have a big battle on our hands for the constructors' title and we have lost ground to Ferrari in each of the past race weekends - even though we had the base performance to do better."
Raikkonen: Tough penalties would stop 'stupidity' (Autosport)
"It is so random, that you cannot really say it's very strong."
"If Hamilton and his teammate Valtteri Bottas do secure the title, it will earn Merc's 900 employees at their Brackley HQ a £10,000 bonus each."
IndyCar media created to manage international media right (IndyCar)
"Hulman & Company announced Monday the formation of IndyCar Media, which becomes the in-house global distribution arm of IndyCar’s international media rights. IndyCar Media has already begun to arrange the distribution of media rights for the 2019 IndyCar Series season and beyond."
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Comment of the day
For proof the FIA’s penalty points system is working, look at who’s complaining about it, says @Losd:
Strangely enough, the two drivers complaining most about the penalty points system, Grosjean and Verstappen, are also the ones that has the most points… Which tells me it works precisely as it should.
The complaints could mean that they are still refusing to learn, though that might just be them not wanting to lose face. At least Verstappen seems to have settled down a bit.
@Losd
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On this day in F1
- 25 years ago today Ayrton Senna claimed pole position for his final race in a McLaren at Adelaide
Phylyp (@phylyp)
6th November 2018, 2:12
Yee-haw!
Phylyp (@phylyp)
6th November 2018, 2:15
Mr. Horner getting a head-start in setting up excuses for 2019? I’m sure he has nothing to worry about, Gasly was just extolling the virtues of the Honda engine, seems NASA are considering it for their next rocket*.
* I might have gotten things mixed up, it might have been Gasly’s mouth that NASA were considering using.
@HoHum (@hohum)
6th November 2018, 2:18
LOL (I did) :-)
DB-C90 (@dbradock)
6th November 2018, 2:34
And he’s assuming that their chassis for next year will be as good.
With the changes to front wings etc that may not necessarily be the case. Remember the mess they made of the last change.
Phylyp (@phylyp)
6th November 2018, 3:05
Rule #1 of Honda customer club: You do not blame the chassis.
Rule #2 of Honda customer club: You do not blame the chassis.
Jimmi Cynic (@jimmi-cynic)
6th November 2018, 5:35
@phylyp: Rules to live, race or DNF by.
Luckily for RBR, they will be a Honda Works team, not a customer, so can play fast and loose with the rules of their blame game.
Phylyp (@phylyp)
6th November 2018, 3:15
@dbradock – humour apart, I think in 2017 RBR gave Newey too much leash to pursue other projects, and I’d also think they would now remember that as a mistake (especially seeing how they had to then depend on mid-season development to catch up). So I’d think that for 2019 they’ve got his attention firmly directed towards the F1 car, and, with the rather fundamental change in aero philosophy, Newey himself finds it an exciting challenge to tackle.
DB-C90 (@dbradock)
6th November 2018, 4:32
@phylyp You’re probably right. They did give him a bit much leash as I suspect they thought that they’d have a magnificent advantage given that the 2017 rules were supposed to favour aero.
If they’re not complacent about how good they are at chassis building (like a team that won’t be mentioned that “said” it had the best chassis) the 2019 car should be as good as or better any in the field.
anon
6th November 2018, 7:50
@dbradock, I thought that it wasn’t so much a sense of “complacency” or a lack of focus, but rather technical issues that explained why the car was underdeveloped back in 2017.
I have a recollection that they later admitted to a number of correlation issues with their wind tunnel during the development of that car, suggesting that they did know how they wanted to develop it – indeed, I suspect that they couldn’t have developed the car quite as quickly as they did if they didn’t already have a bit of a backlog of parts to hand – but were being stymied more by internal technical problems.
Stephen Crowsen (@drycrust)
6th November 2018, 5:24
My recollection is RBR more or less forced Renault to consult with Mahle to increase the power of their engine. I had a vague idea some of Honda’s people were seen by someone talking to Mahle representatives earlier this year as well. I can’t be sure that is true, and even if it was “talking” doesn’t mean “getting actively involved in improving”. I’m sure RBR will be expecting the Honda engine to be better than the Renault engine, preferably before the start of the first testing regime at Barcelona.
Mind you, now that RBR are no longer using Renault engines, Renault may have some “secret ingredients” they had hidden away and now wish to put into their engine to give it “more spice”.
Phylyp (@phylyp)
6th November 2018, 5:33
Hm, I thought it was Ilmor/Mario Ilien that assisted Renault, with RBR pushing for it.
@drycrust – interesting, I hadn’t considered that.
Stephen Crowsen (@drycrust)
6th November 2018, 11:13
@phylyp Doh! What was I thinking? Yes, of course, you’re right, it was Illmor! Mahle were the ones that assisted Ferrari.
Phylyp (@phylyp)
6th November 2018, 11:28
@drycrust – and thanks for letting me know about Mahle & Ferrari, I didn’t know that!
Stephen Crowsen (@drycrust)
6th November 2018, 15:33
Yes, you can see their name on the drivers uniform and on the car.
Drop Sochi
6th November 2018, 23:23
I think Mahle advised Ferrari about Mercedes pre ignition system, and this was a gentleman’s agreement thing, as Merc were wiping Ferrari a bit too hard in the beginning.
ColdFly (@)
6th November 2018, 7:49
Horner’s statement had some difficulty getting through Keith’s fact checking as it only made it to the daily round-up after more than a week :(
Maybe @keithcollantine can merge ‘what they said’ with ‘on this day’ :P
Phylyp (@phylyp)
6th November 2018, 7:53
@coldfly – I didn’t know it was something he said at Mexico. If so, I’m not too surprised, it’s been a trend on the rebranded site to use stuff said on a race weekend to fill in the lean days until the next weekend. At least in this case it is a comment on something in the future, not something relevant to that weekend itself. And hey, it is an improvement over this generating an article in itself, as has been the trend on occasion.
ColdFly (@)
6th November 2018, 8:26
I liked the old round-up better, which started with meaningful articles and posts from the previous 24 hours.
And if there is no news he could always say ‘don’t have nothing to post’, and we’ll have a vivid discussion only about that ;)
@phylyp
PS The round-up was my go-to page. now I use other news aggregators first.
Phylyp (@phylyp)
6th November 2018, 9:35
@coldfly – +1 to that, the newer round-ups are “fluffier”, and not in a good way like a blanket :-)
Todfod (@todfod)
6th November 2018, 12:23
@phylyp
Having a Honda engine is the most solid excuse any team can have for underperforming. I have a feeling we’re in for an entire season of whining from Horner, Marko, Verstappen and crew.
Robbie (@robbie)
6th November 2018, 13:17
I think Horner is simply stating facts. At tracks that have tended to equalize the pu’s somewhat, RBR does great…even wins. As a team that is third in the WCC. The car itself is obviously of quality. And obviously he is hopeful, as we all should be, that the Honda Pu is better than the Renault has been for them in the hybrid era. I’ll have to see it to believe it but in the meantime this rhetoric that RBR now have the patience of a gnat with Honda because of their criticisms of Renault is something I will continue to disagree with and will also have to see to believe.
Todfod (@todfod)
6th November 2018, 14:17
@robbie
Well.. If they could criticise Renault less than 6 months after they won their 4 back to back championships with them, then I guess they do have the patience of a gnat.
Whether Honda drop the ball or succeed in making a step forward, is irrelevant. As long as Red bull aren’t winning it’s never the chassis/team’s fault. It’s always the partners that are holding them back. Surely you’ve been watching F1 long enough to notice that Red bull never make mistakes or underperform.
Drop Sochi
6th November 2018, 23:26
Renault forced the engine change on F1 and their new engine was abysmal, waiting 6 months to complain was 5 months more grace than I would have given.
DocNuke (@)
7th November 2018, 3:12
Well, I’m of the opinion that everyone needs to get their ear plugs out because Red Bull are going to complain very loudly. I would give them (Red Bull and Honda) the first year on how to sort out on how to be partners with the complaints starting to stack up after winter testing starts.
With Toro Rosso it seems like they were sitting down taking notes from day 1 and did okay, but that doesn’t strike me as Red Bulls style.
BlackJackFan
6th November 2018, 14:17
You’re definitely an RBR-fan, aren’t you… ;-)
Robbie (@robbie)
6th November 2018, 14:56
Can’t say I’ve really been an RBR fan, including when SV was winning, until Max joined. I’ll be a Max fan whatever team he is on.
I can say that I will believe it when I see a) Honda actually produce for the start of next season a Pu that is at least capable of helping them retain third in the WCC and b) Horner criticizing Honda in their first year together (STR this season aside).
Next year RBR will not have come off 4 Championships in a row only to fall flat on their faces. And all teams and drivers try to shed the best light on themselves which is why they are constantly criticized by people as making excuses, and then defended by their fans as giving reasons, not making excuses. In the case of RBR, at least unlike McHonda we know definitely it’s not the chassis that is the problem. We’ve all seen that and don’t need Horner to say it.
So far I’ve had no issues with anything Horner has said, and if indeed he starts dumping on Honda in short order next year, I will be disappointed…but I doubt it will happen. Maybe just maybe if they struggle next year, which to me would be understandable in a first year, and then find themselves making no progress in 2020, then perhaps Horner might express some dismay. Then again, we will have to see if RBR will still be using Honda pu’s for 2021 and beyond. If it starts to look like a short term relationship then I think it unlikely Horner would have any justification for dumping on a temporary situation. If they feel they will have to be with Honda for the long term, then Horner will be very diplomatic for quite a while. Of course all of this will hinge on Honda’s performance. Will it be repeated promises of improvements ala Renault? It is a two way street after all. Renault did earn some, at a minimum, of the criticism from Horner. But of course we in our armchairs would never do or say anything wrong, never get frustrated at a situation when hundreds of millions are at stake, never defend the part that is actually in our control and has shown to be fine (the chassis and the drivers).
Joao (@johnmilk)
6th November 2018, 14:32
very true @todfod McLaren tricked us for quite a while and when they changed they didn’t do much better.
Nevertheless I’m curious to see what RBR can do with the Honda, if it works of course
Esploratore (@esploratore)
7th November 2018, 3:43
Don’t forget also that mclaren was doing very bad even in 2014 with the best engine, red bull proved their chassis is great since they bring that terrible renault engine (if it were so good, mclaren and renault themselves would be doing better) to the fight with ferrari and merc, and have the upper hand on mexico and monaco.
Todfod (@todfod)
7th November 2018, 12:58
@johnmilk
Tricked? What are you talking about?
Joao (@johnmilk)
7th November 2018, 13:23
@todfod I don’t even know myself.
That got lost in translation and I had a brainfart. Should be fooled us.
Jimmi Cynic (@jimmi-cynic)
6th November 2018, 5:18
Hundreds of Mercedes employees could get 10k each. Or one lucky employee could get £9 million by winning the factory floor kart race.
Stephen Crowsen (@drycrust)
6th November 2018, 5:32
Would you let your 10K bonus vanish to someone in management? Ha!
Jimmi Cynic (@jimmi-cynic)
6th November 2018, 5:38
Good Point, @drycrust: Management wouldn’t be allowed to compete – not enough Formula Floor points to qualify. ;-)
Fikri Harish (@)
6th November 2018, 7:03
Someone on YouTube posted a video of classic F1 races but using modern graphics.
It looks pretty neat but also very, very confusing trying to recognize the drivers with their three-letter abbreviations.
Joao (@johnmilk)
6th November 2018, 9:58
What not a VSC for the Arnoux incident? C’mon Charlie, wake up
q85
6th November 2018, 7:43
Kimi is right.
The first lap incidents in this current grid is probably one of the worst in history.
I nearly switch off after first few laps as the quality is dire. The drivers aren’t because later they race well. They just don’t use their brain or don’t have enough respect maybe.
Patrick (@anunaki)
6th November 2018, 8:12
I’ve just been ill for a couple of days. I watched a lot of season reports from the 1990s while in bed and I must say that there were an awful lot of incidents already back then. Luckily there were still restarts and T cars in those days
Wayne
6th November 2018, 8:15
10000 pounds wow thats like 150000 of my currency!!!
KGN11
6th November 2018, 12:05
If Honda thought Alonso’ criticism was bad, oh how are they in for a surprise with Red Bull
GeeMac (@geemac)
6th November 2018, 12:37
I’ve been thinking the same thing. If the product isn’t up to scratch it won’t be long before Red Bull starts blaming Honda for all their ills.
Robbie (@robbie)
6th November 2018, 13:20
I don’t buy that for a second. Tabloid rhetoric.
BlackJackFan
6th November 2018, 14:20
Seems more like Robbie-Rhetoric to me… ;-)
Gabriel (@rethla)
6th November 2018, 17:23
@geemac
Well the key difference is that RBs stuff is up to scratch so they would actually be right blaming all their ills on the engine.
GeeMac (@geemac)
7th November 2018, 9:36
@rethla Like their chassis was up to scratch at the start of 2014? They are brilliant, but they aren’t infallible.
dusty (@dusty)
6th November 2018, 12:15
Everything since 2014.
Michael (@freelittlebirds)
6th November 2018, 14:18
Well forget 2019 – what I can’t understand is how RB has won 4 out of 19 races with a Renault engine. That’s 20% of the races in a season when 2 teams are fighting for the WCC with 600 points each.
Yet McLaren and Renault with the same engine are not even in contention for a podium at any race, much less a victory.
If Red Bull (they have 362 points) had more reliability they could have had 450+ points and possibly 500 by now. That would put them close to Ferrari/Merc territory depending on how the points were taken away from those teams.
If we factor in Verstappen’s mistakes and lost points at the start of the season, could they have been ahead of Ferrari at the end of the season or within 20-30 points?
We know Red Bull’s chassis is crazy good but can the chassis make such a difference and propel a car with the 3rd best engine to win 20% of the races? Are Red Bull pushing those engines and every other component to their absolute limit (hence the unreliability)?
Even if Red Bull are extracting every ounce of performance from the engine and more, the Renault engine has to be pretty powerful to allow a team to score 400 points which Red Bull probably will this season. They need 38 points in 2 races to reach 400 and even with the horrific problems they’ve had, they still averaged 19 points a race. They are on target for 400 points.
I guess next year we’ll find out if the Honda is better than the Renault engine. Even if it’s not faster but as quick and offers more reliability, then Red Bull could propel themselves to 500-600 points. Gasly could be the bigger question mark – if he squanders 100 points in getting up to speed that could cost them a chance at those point marks which would put them in contention for the WCC.
BlackJackFan
6th November 2018, 14:25
I’m also hoping Honda will really get it together – surely they ought to be able to out-perform Renault… but… there is still a slight worry about their reliability…
Robbie (@robbie)
6th November 2018, 15:15
@freelittlebirds Of course comparisons are going to immediately be made between RBR/Renault and RBR/Honda but I think it would be folly to forget that this will just be year one of their relationship. It simply would not be fair to expect RBR and Honda to be at full song, showing their full potential, be that good, bad, or indifferent, in season one of their marriage. They’ll be on a huge learning curve, and will know much more about each other for their 2020 car than they will their 2019. But I do expect that level of impatience from some.
As to if this and if that…I never like to play that game of conveniently substituting hand picked scenarios from what actually happened. What if LH didn’t struggle in a few races, VB had better luck, SV didn’t make mistakes etc etc? It is what it is. The season played out as it played out. Give LH, VB, and SV better outcomes from some races and they’d have shut RBR out from some points and wins.
Jere (@jerejj)
6th November 2018, 16:50
@robbie Fully agreed.
anon
6th November 2018, 20:27
@robbie, it would seem that you need to tell Marko that then, because he has made it clear recently that his intention is to be challenging for the championship from the very beginning – rather than trying to play down expectations, he seems rather happy to whip up expectations instead.
Robbie (@robbie)
7th November 2018, 1:49
@anon Yeah that’s true he seems quite enthusiastic. However, I think he also knows that for them to just be a little down on power compared to Ferrari and Merc next year, and to make that up with their good chassis as he is claiming, and be competitive for the Championship(s) from the getgo, would be an anomaly, and they will likely have teething problems and much to learn, no? How could they not? F1 is always a work in progress. That’s why I don’t believe the rhetoric that their patience will be thin. Conversely, if he truly has solid reason to be that optimistic, via info we aren’t possibly privy to, he’ll have much reason to be supportive and not want to harm a good thing with verbiage the likes of which took a long time to evolve between RBR/Renault after a lot of history together.
I hope Marko is right, and in his position I suppose he isn’t about to cast doubts on this new marriage publicly anyway, but I personally expect them to be on a learning curve, and expect some unreliability, and to me likely moreso than Merc and Ferrari, since we’re talking about fighting for the big prize next year. I hope to be pleasantly surprised.
Jere (@jerejj)
6th November 2018, 15:21
Re ‘What They Say’ section: I hope so as well.
– I agree with the COTD.
Pjotr (@pietkoster)
6th November 2018, 16:23
As long (45 years now) as I follow racing either car or bike, as soon as Honda set their mind of things they build winning equipment. I remember the 6 cilinder 250 cc engines, 250 cc engines with turbo delivering 400+HP, engines with oval pistons etc. Really excited about what is coming.
anon
6th November 2018, 20:38
@pietkoster, wasn’t the NR500 bike (which had the oval piston engined) considered to be a failure? The concept never really worked properly and, after a few years, Honda ditched the proposal entirely in favour of a much more conventional design instead.
Pjotr (@pietkoster)
9th November 2018, 22:27
True, the oval pistons didn’t worked out as expected. Honda dropped it because they had to much other interests going on.
Todfod (@todfod)
7th November 2018, 13:01
@pietkoster
I guess Honda just didn’t put their ‘minds to it’ in formula 1 over the last 25 years.
I feel they can develop great engines for Motorsport in general, but not at the very pinnacle of technology in Motorsport.
GtisBetter (@)
6th November 2018, 19:45
@COTD that is a very wrong way of thinking. You can’t just look at points. If the stewards hand out wrong penalties, it means they have the most right of complaining, cause they have been treated unfairly. People who do bad things and get away with it are not going to complain! From the start of the penalty system I haven’t seen any evidence that a driver is changing his style, or that it has any influence at all. Drivers only change if a new rule is made, or if they can get more points by changing.