Max Verstappen, Esteban Ocon, Interlagos, 2018

Verstappen given public service order for shoving Ocon after race

2018 Brazilian Grand Prix

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Max Verstappen has been told to perform two days of public service for making physical contact with Esteban Ocon.

The Red Bull driver was investigated under article 12.1.1.c) of the FIA International Sporting Code which prohibits “acts prejudicial to the interests of any competition or to the interests of motor sport generally.”

Stewards’ verdict

The stewards reviewed video evidence from the FIA’s CCTV Cameras and heard from the driver of car 33 (Max Verstappen), the driver of car 31 (Esteban Ocon) and the team representatives.

The driver, Max Verstappen entered the FIA Weigh Bridge Garage, proceeded directly to driver Esteban Ocon and following a few words, started an altercation, pushing or hitting Ocon forcefully several times in the chest.

The stewards held a hearing, in which both drivers acted appropriately and cooperated with the Stewards. The Stewards understood from Max Verstappen that he was extremely upset by the incident on track during the race and accepted his explanation that it was not his original intent to strike Ocon, but that he was “triggered” and caused him to lose his temper.

While sympathetic to Verstappen’s passion, the Stewards determined that it is the obligation of sportsmen at this level to act appropriately and as role models to other drivers at all levels and found that Verstappen failed in this respect. The Stewards therefore ordered that Max Verstappen is required to perform two (2) days of public service at the direction of the FIA within six months of the incident. (Penalty under Art. 12.3.1.c of the FIA International Sporting Code.)

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Keith Collantine
Lifelong motor sport fan Keith set up RaceFans in 2005 - when it was originally called F1 Fanatic. Having previously worked as a motoring...

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234 comments on “Verstappen given public service order for shoving Ocon after race”

  1. Excellent stewarding. Here’s hoping it has some effect.

    Also, it does imply that Ocon was entirely unapologetic at the weighbridge. Call me crazy, but I understand Verstappen’s response.

    1. @hahostolze Ocon had no reason to apologize. Verstappen left him no room. Just as I like Verstappen because he wants to race, I can’t find fault in Ocon for wanting to unlap himself (which is allowed). He threw the race away by being impatient, incautious and presumptious, expecting Ocon to just back down.

      1. @david-br This is just wrong. The right to unlap in F1 is entirely different from the right to overtake. An unlapping car should always take into account the fact that his position is less important than the car he is overtaking. That’s inherent to lapping cars. Unfortunately racetracks aren’t long enough to negate this issue. Ocon had every right, but had absolutely no right to take risks. The moment he took a risk to overtake someone where the situation was not clear cut enough for it to be an easy overtake, Ocon immediately becomes the culprit. Verstappen has every right to expect Ocon not to finish this move. Hamilton was alluding to the exact thing. The only thing you can fault Verstappen for is not seeing that Ocon was doing something unusual and letting him by. He should have, but that doesn’t suddenly disculpate Ocon from doing something crazy.

        1. I disagree because I don’t really think Ocon had that much time between realizing his attempt to unlap hadn’t worked and backing down – by the completion of the first corner they’re already into the second. Yes had Ocon been more passive he might have done. But the very fact he wanted to get past Verstappen means he’s in racing mode. Had he continued for another corner or so, I’d agree. I’m also all out of sympathy for Max when other drivers – like Hamilton – are ultra wary of trying to pass him as he makes it abundantly clear that he has nothing to lose and they everything. Today he found himself in the reverse situation and took no heed. I think he needed that lesson.

          1. The most sensible thing I’ve heard anyone say about this whole incident so far. Well said David BR.

          2. You are referring to overtaking. This was unlapping. Totally different. You can never impede the race leader in an unlapping situation

          3. You arguments are correct if they were fighting for position. They were not. Ocon always should take evasive action when it concerns the cars in competition. And certainly the race leader!

          4. @david-br
            “he makes it abundantly clear that he has nothing to lose and they everything.”
            not only he said it himself sometime ago, he just met the karma of his own words!
            to those who cant see the irony… if there is a gap and you dont go for it, you may just as well sit at home and watch soap opera!

            i cant believe stewards blamed ocon for this?
            similar situation, bottas in place of ocon, trying to unlap himself put his car along side ham in braking zone, and crash happens, and ham received the penalty…

            even though not exact same copy, max did this himself, he just turned into the car next to him! just plain stupid decision! he calls everyone stupid, yet he is the only clever person left in track? with pushing and showing? he bloody did crash and mess wdc races when he wasnt involved in the contention!

          5. That’s a great comment @david-br!

          6. Johnny Five, named so as your IQ is 5.

          7. Flawed argument – comparing verstappen racing for position with 13th ocon 70 seconds behind racing for mercedes.

          8. Fudge Kobayashi (@)
            12th November 2018, 10:53

            I’m also all out of sympathy for Max when other drivers – like Hamilton – are ultra wary of trying to pass him as he makes it abundantly clear that he has nothing to lose and they everything. Today he found himself in the reverse situation and took no heed. I think he needed that lesson.

            +1 very well said.

        2. I have to disagree with the “less important” thing. That’s not in the rules. And the relative importance is fact-specific. The unlapping car may being trying to hurry up to keep a pursuer out of his pit window so he or she doesn’t lose a spot on that particular lap. Is that inherently less important than a car running away with the win losing .5s? Since this premise doesn’t generate a rule, it also doesn’t generate a corollary that the unlapper should expect to have the door closed when unlapping.

      2. @david-br Come on, this isn’t right. It’s one thing to unlap yourself cleanly. It’s another to contest a corner when a lap behind, arguably a corner he had already lost to Verstappen. And I like(ed?) Ocon.

        1. arguably a corner he had already lost to Verstappen

          Well you’ve made my point! Arguably he had lost it, but also arguably not. There are two issues. One when Ocon should have ceded the position, and the other whether Verstappen made the right racing decision in cutting across the second corner. The answer to the latter is a no-brainer surely. He should have given Ocon room rather than risk a collision. As for Ocon, I really don’t know, I think he was reasonably entitled to space for the second corner as it’s so soon after the first. After that, no. I mean, if the stewards think he was allowed to make the pass to unlap himself on the straight and around the first corner, at what exact point was that supposed to change when the two corners flow into each other? The fact they took so long to decide suggests they weren’t clear either.

          1. Flawed argunent – when ocon hit verstappen ocon was a lapped car.

          2. There is no losing a corner in a situation like this. Unlapping yourself is not an overtaking move. The corner always belongs to the car on the lap ahead. If you are fast enough to unlap yourself, do it on a straight where there is zero room for complications of any kind.

          3. You sure know that whoever gets the first corner is entitled to the 2nd one? Verstappen was half a car length in front. Ocon lacks racecraft and a brain

          4. @david-br Ocon didn’t have the right to drive as if he were fighting for position, which is what he did.

            A little example from the good old days:


      3. David Br … totally disagree with you .. Max was clearly in front of Ocon at that corner (not even considering the fact that he was the race leader and Ocon was lapped) and he should have backed off at that instance. Also i wonder that unlapping yourself is such a smart move. Max was saving his tyres but clearly he would have overtaken Ocon again which means more blue flags for Ocon again .. so in the end i think it would have hurt his laptimes anyway!

        1. @arnoudvanhouwelingen totally disagree with you too… MAX was not CLEARLY AHEAD! He did a max move and outbraked himself into the corner. ocon was ahead before the corner, but for the sake of not crashing he took it wide, but they were clearly along side! just before next bend

          there was another issue as well before the end of the straight! max did another one of his silly moves… ocon was clearly overtaking him, max went left and then at the braking zone, tried to move right (while ocon next to him) to push ocon wider! that is another one of verstappen’s stupid signature moves! he was slower than ocon, yet he didnt wanna give up the corner at the cost of the win… this boy if he doesnt learn, he will be made example of by dont know some fellow drivers? or he will get himself kicked out of racing…

          Only unfair punishment was ocon’s penalty… Verstappen deserved much worse but let off with a slap on the wrist again…

          1. He who is lying willfully, can wilfully prove anything, as you so ‘eloquently’ point out.

          2. Watch the clip posted by @mysticus.

            Watch it with open eyes (and emotion) and forget that the cars are on different laps.

            Moments before contact car 31 is on the inside of the corner 3/4 alongside car 33.

            Now tell me where the responsibility for the contact lies?

            Now tell me where in the rules it states what lap cars are on dictates how much space they need…

        2. This, the thing is Ocon is one of the most loved racers on the grid and max one of the most polarized, you rather love him or hate him.
          I’m neither a Ocon fan nor Max fan and my take on it is its completely on Ocon, max was saving his tires, Ocon had nothing to fight for in a terrible race he was having, risking taking out the race leader just to get unlaped?
          We all now they are racers, but this time Ocon got it wrong.
          Imagine if this was a Sirotkin a Erickson or even worst Grosjean or Perez, everyone and there dog wold be saying they should be kicked out of f1 immediately.

      4. I can’t find fault in Ocon for wanting to unlap himself (which is allowed).

        Any great driver would do anything to unlap himself.
        But you must be utterly stupid if you drive into the guy who is 1 lap ahead; especially when he is in the lead.

        1. @coldfly
          This is also true!
          Any great driver would do anything to unlap himself. But you must be utterly stupid if you drive into the guy who is 1 lap behind!

          Like he keeps mocking others to be careful around him while overtaking… They asked Alonso for comment on Verstappen. You guessed the answer “Karma!” :)

          1. @mysticus Exactly! Advice to Max: treat everyone you meet on track as though they might be a reincarnation of Max Verstappen.

          2. @mysticu, @david-br
            Don’t take it from me; listen to Mr Whiting:
            “He’s absolutely allowed to un-lap himself. That’s clear. It’s happened many times in the past.”
            “Of course you would expect it to be done safely. But more to the point it should be done cleanly and absolutely without fighting. He shouldn’t be fighting to get past.”

            But you probably disagree with him as well :P

          3. @coldfly Actually, yes, I do disagree :P
            Ocon was driving cleanly, that’s unarguable, he maintained his line round the corner and left space. So that leaves ‘shouldn’t be fighting to get past’.

            I think the bit everyone is missing is that Max decided to fight for the place. Ocon had been stuck behind Verstappen on faster tyres, while MV was tyre saving. So the team told him he could and should unlap himself to take advtantage of the fresh tyres. So he tried to. At that point Verstappen, with power and tyres in reserve, decides to race Ocon going into turn one. Fine too, he can race whenever he likes. But that then means that the move Ocon had made to unlap himself turned into a fight for position. Do you get my point? By the time they’re out of the first corner, MV is slightly up, but they’re already into the second corner. Here my view coincides with Hamilton – directly behind both and a 5 x champion, unlike Whiting. He obviously thought Max had to give space and finally overtake at a safe point.

          4. Here my view coincides with Hamilton – directly behind both and a 5 x champion,

            Also the guy who massively gained by this incident (personally and for his team) :P

          5. @coldfly Hence my surprise that Hamilton wanted to give MV any advice! Just let him carry on his own (incident-filled) path…

        2. If max was saving tires And had a lot to lose, then by your logic don’t you think he should have just let Ocon go instead of cutting him at the apex when he knew he was there?

      5. Ocon should have apologized. Only sports and max haters would disagree with that.

        13 placed Mercedes driver with Mercedes engine drives race leader of the track whilst lapping about 1.5 seconds slower on average and 70 seconds behind at that point, and presents a mercedes driver with a mercedes engine in the mercedes team ‘victory’.

        Hamilton told us what happened. No words like that sucks or i dont like to win like this…he explained the ‘legality’ of Ocon’s failed attempt to unlap.

        1. Ocon was the one penalized. That says it all. Ocon may have had a right to unlap himself, but not with a dive bomb into the side of Max, the race leader who had already gotten ahead of EO. Ridiculous move on Ocon’s part, hence the penalty.

          1. I agree as do the Stewards and all sensible commentators. Case closed.

          2. but not with a dive bomb into the side of Max

            In what way was it a dive bomb? Ocon was alongside Verstappen from before turn . The absolute nonsense on this site.

            Ocon was entitled to space, he wasn’t being lapped he was unlapping himself. Max ran into him plain and simple, once again not leaving enough space for a car significantly alongside him.

          3. *before turn 1

      6. @david-br Yes, he indeed had. Ocon had no business or right to put himself into a position where a crash would be rather inevitable to happen anyway since he was a full lap down after having just gotten lapped. He should’ve backed off earlier, and thus, create distance to Max at T1 at the very latest if not on the long run down to that corner already.

        1. @jerejj Ocon was stuck behind Verstappen for a lap and was instructed by his team that he could unlap himself. My reading (and I suspect this is what Hamilton) is that MV decided ‘no way is he unlapping himself’ and preceded to race Ocon into the first corner. Fine, but that means Ocon’s easy unlapping became a contested corner. At what point is he supposed to guess Verstappen is fighting the position and decide to relent? That’s the point Hamilton was making. Verstappen’s aggression is such that he’s going to fight a backmarker at the first attempt rather than let him have the first corner and then indicate he’s coming past (with blue flags if needed). I’d give Ocon some leeway here. Everyone is being super generous to MV when his performance this year doesn’t merit it, thinking particularly of his shunt on Raikkonen, which damaged Kimi’s race, his collision with Vettel, which didn’t earn him a bout of shoving, and his attempt to push Hamilton off track at Bahrain, which got him a puncture. 2 more Ocon-type incidents and as Alonso alluded, maybe MV’s karma for the season would be balanced!

          1. pls dude..stop embarassing yourself

          2. JI, me? no! I don’t mind arguing a minority view and defending Ocon here.

          3. Ocon has a list of incidents ( mostly with his teammate he tries to “fight”) of the same kind.
            Sometimes the red mist clouds his judgement.. like fighting the raceleader for position while a lap down.
            He has some serious frustration at the moment.

          4. Ocon has a list of incidents ( mostly with his teammate he tries to “fight”) of the same kind

            Yeah cause Max has never had an incident before right? Seriously counting up previous crashes is not a hill you want to die on if you are trying to defend MAx because you will lose hard.

            Sometimes the red mist clouds his judgement.. like fighting the raceleader for position while a lap down.

            And for Max sometimes the red mist clouds his judgement.. like fighting a car that is only unlapping himself when there is absolutely 0 need to.

            Ocon was significantly alongside Max and Max decided not to leave him any space. Not for the first time Max cost himself a win with some amateur driving.

      7. The penalty was not for the attempt to ´unlap´ himself. This is how the stewards judged:

        The driver of Car 31 (Esteban Ocon) was a lapped car. The Stewards noted that he had new Super Soft tyres. Ocon attempted a pass on the leader, Car 33 (Max Verstappen) to un-lap himself at the outside of turn one. The Stewards determined that he failed to complete the pass at turn one, and as a lapped car, fought the leader for track position, causing the collision at turn 2 with the race leader.

        And the story of Ocon being faster, in his own words ‘for a couple of laps’ is not supported by the racedata. He was one lap faster after his pitsstop (0.484s). For the remaining laps and despite the heavily damaged car of Verstappen, Ocon was only one lap faster (lap 68 0.025s). At lap 44 (the collision lap) he was 73.389 seconds behind Max, his stop and go cost him 31.2s and he finished 137.129s behind Max. So, excluding the stop and go, he lost another 32.5s which is more than a second per lap. That makes his claim that he was way faster than Max and the claim of his boss that he would be in front of Max for 5 or 6 laps after unlapping himself dubious, to say the least.

        1. But if you do not like Max, facts are only ballast for some.

      8. you don’t un-lap yourself with by racing with the race leader, which is what Ocon was doing – down the back straight, into turn one and then into turn two, he should never have been on the inside of Verstappen.

  2. Sound like a sensible solution to me

    1. It’s a good time to assign some community service– I hear the FIA has a broken weigh bridge they need someone to fix.

      1. Brilliant @chaddy :)

      2. Good one, @chaddy.

  3. Only two days kicking ocons nuts in public?

    1. What else did you expect? jail time? he pushed a guy around, he didn’t assault him, or punch him. No sympathy for Verstappen, it was serious but it’s nothing compared to what we see in football or other sports anyway. 2 days of public service seems fair enough.

      1. Pushing someone assault.

    2. I think no driver has gotten away with more than Verstappen. Seems like for 2 seasons he has been a rolling mine field.

      In my view he should have received more penalties. He seems to have gotten a little more patient, and all the better for it. But then yet again he was involved in an avoidable collision, and yet there is a technical justification, ambiguity, or other excuse.

      Then he is violent after the race? What is the result? Will the FIA finally stand up to the bully? Nope, a slap on the wrist.

      So it goes on. Next race his rivals will be wary to race him again. In my view Verstappen and F1 would be better off if he got a couple serious penalties so his behavior changes before somebody gets hurt.

      1. RP … violent? give me a break .. a couple of pushes is not that violent .. i see worse every weekend on the football pitch. Vettel almost run over a fia official at the weighing bridge i think that is way more violent. Also Max got a punishment .. he has to work for FIA for 2 days within the next 6 months. And what about Ocon then? He should have gotten a grid penalty for the next race!!

        1. Football supporters as a paradigm for good behaviour – there’s a novelty.

      2. Dutchguy (@justarandomdutchguy)
        12th November 2018, 11:06

        I know one. Sebastian Vettel

        Hit his teammate (turkey 2010)
        Repeatedly involved/to blame for first lap crashes (Mexico 2017, Singapore 2017, malaysia 2016, France 2018)
        Vehicular assault (Baku 2017)
        Poor teammate (Malaysia 2013)
        only driver to fall foul of 2016’s “verstappen rule”
        cussed out the stewards (mexico 2016)

        Yes, it wasn’t wise to get pushy, but you’re overexaggerating what happened. we’ve had drivers in the past who kicked punched or grabbed others by the throat, who stormed into a rival team’s pit box almost full NASCAR style, and if anything people seem to remind that as being something positive.

        Also, Max doesn’t get away with that much (Mexico 2016 (the same race where one of the Mercedes drivers got away with doing just about exactly the same), China 2018, USA 2017, Monaco 2015). He doesn’t seem to learn that quickly, as he does occasioanlly showcase, but he does get the penalties

        And I get it, people don’t like Max. I don’t really like him; he’s way too cocky, but you don’t have to twist the facts.

    3. two days kicking ocons nuts

      That’s the going rate.
      You get five though if you lick Magnussen’s ;)

  4. Regardless of this being lenient, harsh or fair, since when does F1 have the authority to decide this?

    1. What do you mean? If he doesn’t he’ll face further sanction from the FIA – this is their sport and he’ll do as he’s told.

      1. @boysfromthedwarf I mean public service is not a punishment FIA tends to give. I never heard of a punishment not related to racing or a race. Another record voor Verstappen? ;)

        1. But the offence was racing related – the trigger being the on track events and the offence took place at the FIA driver weigh in.

    2. Interesting question. As long as the FIA issue his superlicense, I would say their authority in this is pretty supreme. However, a real ‘public service penalty’ in the form of manual labour (which obviously this isn’t, but is the most akin to) could be construed as a criminal charge under ECHR case law. I don’t think the penalty is severe enough for that, so the FIA would have the power to do this. It’s an internal disciplinary proceedings, and it falls below the penalty usually reserved for more serious re-examination.
      (although, don’t take my word for it, I’m not a laywer)

      1. Are you the Pope though?

      2. @hahostolze @matthijs public service refers to attending FIA events for feeder series etc and such to pretty much tell the younguns to not do that sort of stuff, vettel got 2 weeks of it after baku 2017

        1. attending FIA events for feeder series etc

          must be a field day for his sponsor’s.
          Probably attending go-kart races in Jumbo Supermarket carparks ;)

  5. Meaning they understand and they don’t want this to become a regular situation after races.

    1. they don’t want this to become a regular situation after races.

      Liberty disagrees and will pay a huge bonus for the next action which creates so much attention.

  6. Slap on the bottom for the naughty boy… now go and brush your teeth and go to bed before you have your X-box taken off you.

  7. Vettel Baku?

    1. I think Vettel said sorry. That’s enough for a Ferrari driver.

      1. Jelle van der Meer (@)
        11th November 2018, 22:08

        Ocon never said sorry for knocking the race leader out as a backmarker.
        Unlap yourself is fine but not to fight for position, Ocon’s move in turn 2 was extremely high risk and clear sign of fighting rather than safely unlapping himself.

        Max has no obligation to give him room, he was ahead in turn 1 and turn 2 and most important was the race leader while Ocon was backmarker.

        1. William Jones
          12th November 2018, 8:16

          “Max has no obligation to give him room”

          Riddle me this then, if you are lapping a back marker, and he doesn’t move from the racing line, why would you move onto the dirty part of the track to get past them? Why not stay on the racing line, as is your right and plough right into the back of them?

        2. He does if he is saving tyres and pacing himself while Ocon is unlapping other cars and now in spot to. If they hadn’t contacted, I bet all the commentators would have been slamming Ocon for cutting him at the apex, you don’t do that in any situation. I Bet verstappen would have kept up his record of dirty blocking for the following laps. He needs to swallow his pride and realise he isn’t the only one racing. Often lower midfield drivers putting in better drives than verstappen did, I don’t know why he ruined his own race by racing and blocking ocon, they were not in the same race, the pass was on, just let him past and concentrate on winning the race.

  8. “Sympathetic to his passion.” OK!

    I’m sure Mateschitz can turn these two days of service into a nice video promo for the drinks. We can follow Max around as he delivers free crates of Red Bull to Red Bull fans at a Red Bull sponsored airplane race.

  9. The standards these days, I expected Verstappen to be put on probation.

    1. @faulty

      Nelson Piquet threw a few Kung-fu kicks at another driver when he was leading the race and taken out by a back marker. I think he got away Scot free. It’s a decent enough penalty for a few push and shoves.

      1. Yeah, but in the case of Piquet v Salazar, it was done there and then, in the gravel trap.

        Not half an hour later.

        1. What about Schumacher in Spa then?

          1. He didn’t actually get to Coulthard as far as I remember.

        2. How does that make any difference?

  10. Disgusting behaviour by Max there. He pushed Ocon multiple times.
    What about those times when he made contact with others and ruined their races like in China this year destroying Vettel’s race when Vettel was battling for the top 2.
    Point is in racing things happen, but pushing a fellow driver like that is classless.

    1. Jelle van der Meer (@)
      11th November 2018, 22:11

      Key difference is that they were fighting for position with neither being a lap down.
      That is what most folks forget, as backmarker younare not allowed to fight for position to unlap yourself. Ocon made a very high risk move trying to unlap himself – that is where he made the mistake.

    2. Ocon must be lucky the old man was not there. He would probably needed an ambulance to get home.

    3. That is different AMG44 .. back then in China they raced for position .. you can’t compare what happened in China with what happened here? I guess you liked the move from Ocon otherwise your man would have never won!

    4. This sort of behavior by VER is putting me off watching F1, the other week he was he was so visibly upset at missing “his” pole, very immature, so if he is the future of F1, a sad day. He needs to grow up but with the influence of his father (and his DNA) there seems to be little hope of that happening anytime. He was riding on the back of RIC jovial nature, but you could see even that was fake, I am surprised RB want him as their image, even if he is a fast driver.

      1. VER was right.
        This is a mans sport.
        And some times this happens.

        Watch NFL football NBA NHL.
        Sometimes men clash.
        And these are young men too.

        If you even cant take this then go watch chess or ballet.

        Com on guys.
        Dont blow this up.

        Dont you guys remember the old times?
        If you would do this to Senna, wherever not even on Interlagos.
        He would have even given you a harder problem.

        1. Yeah but Senna would also crash you out on purpose with a Day’s planning in order to become wdc
          So he’s not exactly an appropiate embassador for sportsmanship…

          1. That’s a little harsh, Prost done the same to him one year earlier!

          2. @garns Prost tried to close the door on him at very low speed, making contact in the process. Not exactly clean, i agree.
            But Senna just straightup plowed into him at pretty much full speed

    5. “Disgusting behaviour by Max there. He pushed Ocon multiple times.”

      Yes, Ocon was quite right to take out the race leader, justified by knowing he would be pushed around later, after not apologizing for ruining the sport element of the Grand Prix. I mean, we could all see Verstappen pushed Ocon so hard it actually hit 10G, way more than Ocon suffers in a race car. Totally unaceptable.

  11. Handbags at dawn! Still, at least he didn’t headbutt him.
    I bet he wouldn’t try that same shove if it had been K-Mag that clipped him.

  12. Community service?

    1. Visiting some children hospitals and the likes probably..

    2. Yes. Max will be obligated to lobby and ensure Ocon gets a Toro Rosso seat next season. Then Ocon will be obligated to always get out of Max’s way and take out a Merc or Ferrari when requested. That’s F1 community service.

    3. Yes. He obliged to do donuts 2×24 hours for F1 community.

  13. Its pretty obvious the fact that Ocon did not apologize is what triggered Verstappen. He still sees no fault in what happened. Even if they were racing for position, I don’t understand how people suggest Max was at fault. Max was in front and taking the racing line. Leave more space? Should he have to worry about that when he is leading the race? Switch Max for Hamilton, Vettel or Kimi and everyone would be blaming Ocon for attempting a desperate dive on the inside.

    1. +1 unlap yourself, sure. But don’t bother the race leader with it.

    2. Jelle van der Meer (@)
      11th November 2018, 22:12

      +1 thank you well said

    3. These guy’s have large ego’s and big cohones. This will not go unpunished. If Ocon is ever in the lead of a race, maybe in a Mercedes, Ves will run him of the track.

      1. I think that Max is not going to linger on that one @pietkoster. Why would he do that in several years from now?

      2. @pietkoster

        If Ocon is ever in the lead of a race, maybe in a Mercedes

        Fat chance if that happening. I just don’t see Ocon driving in anything other than midfield machinery. If Mercedes want a top driver, they’ll try and poach a Verstappen or Leclerc. That would probably sting Ocon a whole lot more.

    4. It’s not the first time Ocon did stupid things.. Ask Perez!

      1. It definitely makes me go back and reconsider the clashes that Perez and Ocon have had. I always thought it was Perez who couldn’t stand being one-upped by a newcomer, now I’m not so sure.

        If only I didn’t have a mind like a sieve, I’d actually remember the various Ocon-Perez clashes!

        1. It definitely makes me go back and reconsider the clashes that Perez and Ocon have had. I always thought it was Perez who couldn’t stand being one-upped by a newcomer, now I’m not so sure.

          Same here, @phylyp.
          I’ll pay close attention to his racing in 2019 to make up my mind ;)

      2. It’s not the first time VER did anything stupid by a long shot. Ask anyone who isn’t orange.

        1. I’m British.

          Ocon was in the wrong. He shouldn’t have been trying to unlap himself at that particular point. On the straight, yes, that would’ve been fine, but as soon as it because clear that Max was not going to back down and relinquish Turn 1, then he needed to realise that he was in P16, Verstappen was in P1 and they were not in the same race.

          Doesn’t matter how fresh his tyres were.

          If he’d done that to Ayrton Senna it wouldn’t have just been pushing and shoving.

          1. It does matter how fresh his tyres were, he had others to race. He wasn’t racing Max but others.

    5. ‘Switch Max for Hamilton’

      Hamilton said in the cooldown room he would have left some space

      1. Tommy Scragend
        12th November 2018, 10:06

        Very easy for Hamilton to say that in the cooldown room, when he wasn’t the driver involved, and had just won the race on the back of the incident.

      2. Clever to say, but not stated by the facts. “These backmarkers are ridiculous. What do they think they are doing?’ “They are fighting eachother for position Lewis.” “Ridiculous. Tell Charlie. Blue flags.” Sounds familiar? And that is just one example of how Lewis really thinks how backmarkers should behave.

        Nevertheless, shrewd to state something like that to unsettle Max.

        1. Clever to say from Hamilton, i mean.

    6. @Mike Agreed. Unquestionably.

  14. I like the penalty. A fine of a few thousand would mean nothing to Verstappen, who earns millions. Instructing him to do something against his will for two days will put him in his place.

    1. Jelle van der Meer (@)
      11th November 2018, 22:19

      Me too because Max should have known better to look for the confrontation when his adrenaline is still running very high. I fully understand him but that doesn’t make it right.

      FIA is correct to reprimand Max, I think they were wise to give him community service rather than grid/time penalty as it was an outside the race incident.

      I am disappointed in Ocon and FI that they did not apologize to Max for costing him a victory. It is very clear that Ocon had no business fighting Max unlap himself.

      Last I really hope that Max takes learnings from this incident so that when he is really fighting for WDC he is more cautious/experienced and lets a backmarker by next time.

      1. By letting people pass you, you will never in your life become a WDC.

        1. Jelle van der Meer (@)
          11th November 2018, 23:18

          True but I did say backmarker – I doubt anyone in the paddock thinks Max is easy to pass nor that Max doesn’t defend when it is really for position.

        2. Why did he let pass Hamilton so easly in Monaco and blocked the ferrari?? And they were on the same lap.. but here he decides fight max to death, again help Mercedes is clear like the water, he will be bottas version 2

        3. By letting people pass you, you will never in your life become a WDC.

          @pietkoster – not quite. It’s a thing of picking your battles, and is something Hamilton does very well (and I’m a Vettel fan), definitely in the post-Rosberg years. I’ve seen Hamilton back out of an overtake (I think it was at 2016 Spa at Eau Rouge after a restart), and even him running wide at COTA this year – while mocked by some – was a smart play given he didn’t need the overtake for the WDC.

          Ocon needed to pick his battles, and not bother unlapping when he would have anyway been lapped again in short order, given it was an F1 vs. F1.5 car, never mind the age and compound of the tyres. However, Ocon had less to lose (I think he was outside the points positions even prior to that).

          Max needed to pick his battles, simply because he had more to lose – irrespective of whether he is entitled to shut the door on a lapped driver or not. Max is lucky he still walked away with a neat 17 points.

  15. “…accepted his explanation that it was not his original intent to strike Ocon, but that he was “triggered” and caused him to loose his temper”

    I personally don’t accept this. I think it was pre-meditated and frankly I was expecting it after I heard his team radio. I think Verstappen thought it would make for a good show or something like that. It all seemed very calculated to me and I’m convinced he went looking for it.

    1. Jelle van der Meer (@)
      11th November 2018, 22:24

      I disagree – it was not smart for Verstappen to go to Ocon but I think he only got angry and pushed because of whatever Ocon said. Watch the video, they have words first and then Max starts to,push in response to what Ocon said.

      Ocon and FI still maintain they are the victim and made no mistake during the race at all.

      1. @jelle-van-der-meer I think you could accept that Verstappen made a radio call literally saying he was planning to cause trouble with Ocon, then he went to Ocon and put hands on Ocon.

        It was pre meditated… and there’s recorded proof of it.

        1. @neiana +1
          I tend to agree with @ben-n that it was intended as ‘show’ to try to intimidate any others who might want to challenge him on track. Look at the effect it had – e.g. a reporter asking Hamilton if he ‘feared’ being up against Verstappen next year when he reacts like that! Ridiculous, yes, but it was the message MV wanted to give.

        2. Agreed. I have to say though, pre-meditated or not, it was still childish and another display of Max seeing red.

        3. Absolutely, and he should have had the presence of mind to keep well away knowing that he was angry.
          Yet he didn’t, and he acted like a child again.

    2. your wrong Ben .. Ocon said something to Verstappen which triggered the push .. see also the offical statement by the FIA .. so not premeditated action at all

      1. Ben Rowe (@thegianthogweed)
        12th November 2018, 7:35

        Where are you seeing that what Ocon said said triggered the push? We didn’t hear it. While he apparently admitted he was triggered, that doesn’t sound to be the case.

        He said on the radio when he pulled in after the race. “No, I know what to say. I hope he… I can’t find him now in the paddock because then he is beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep.”

        That was a pretty long beep obviously covering up a large amount of bad language. This is very clear evidence that he was still overly angry about it and sounded like he wouldn’t be able to control himself. And as @ben-n said, it did almost seem to be what he planned to do. And we can’t yet prove what Ocon said. The hitting may not have happened instantly, but he stormed up to Ocon and did touch him and then very soon make it a lot worse.

    3. Hard to say what actually was that thing Ocon said that according to the stewards triggered the pushing and shoving @ben-n, @thegianthogweed, @jelle-van-der-meer @arnoudvanhouwelingen, @neiana.

      But there must have been something – the stewards had both of them in the room, heard from both of them and why would they use that line in the report if there was not something said by Ocon that did “the trick”.

      When you watch the video, Ocon does seem to say something, when first watching the video, I though he apologized or something, but watching it again, it could just as well have been something else, maybe saying “why did you block me” or really anything, which seems to have gotten Max angry again.

      1. William Jones
        12th November 2018, 8:23

        Why are we all pretending that getting angry is something out of Max’s ability to control. You choose to get angry, and the only people these days who deny this are wifebeaters and their ilk.

        1. Absolutely, there is a little something called ‘self-control’ that seems be forgotten about in today’s culture! Where it’s never ‘your own fault’ there is always an external factor to blame for an ‘internal’ decision.

          1. But are we talking about ‘today’s culture’ or are we talking about a sporting event that countless times across many many sports over many many decades results in heat of the moment altercations by their very nature. We ‘throw our athletes into the ring’ in a way, to entertain us, no matter the sport. This is not about choosing to be angry or not. Sports are about competition and stuff is going to happen. This is not the same as an argument with one’s wife or husband during which one can choose to walk away and calm down and go at it in a better manner a little later.

  16. This is a not so smart descision. Ocon is from now on the wanted list by Ves and his dad. Payback will be paid on the track. Fasten your seatbelts.

    1. @pietkoster do they have destruction derby in The Netherlands ?

    2. Oh, come on. The stewards sat them down to talk it over. They shook hands afterwards, why on earth would Max bother to have this troubling his mind for a second more than those two days?

      He will also have the niggling comment of wisdom from Hamilton – that he lost his lead because he did not give wide bearth to a admittedly at fault Ocon. And he will learn and grow.

      Jos really doesn’t have anything to do with it by now @pietkoster

    3. @pietkoster This mentality is exactly why Max won’t be winning a WDC for a few years with a more level-headed and equally as fast Charles in the Ferrari.

  17. I’ve been a Verstappen fan since 1996. I know the rules. It’s quite simple to be honest, the Fia only allows world champions to lose their tempor. Schumi-Coulthard ’98. Vettel-Hamilton not so long ago. So hopefully in one or two years Max will get away with it. 😎

    1. @melbourne-96 vettel got 2 weeks of the same sort of public service after his clash with hamilton in 2016

      1. +1
        Totally forgot that! Well, it’s a consistent punishment then. (I do think Vettel should ‘ve been blackflagged back then.)

  18. I don’t want to see ocon in f1 any more, good he misses next year, hope he never comes back, good riddance if so.

    Superlicense removal would’ve been the fitting punishment IMO.

    Ofc what verstappen sr. did to montoya in brazil 2001 was even more serious, but still unacceptable and in particular after everything mercedes did this year I have little reason to believe this is NOT a conspiracy to take 1 more win for merc.

  19. Ocon is such a mincer. He fits in well at the Merc family. Maybe he can be number 44’s partner.

  20. Two days as a sparring partner at Freddy Roach’s Wild Card Boxing Club would be a public service….

  21. Where’s the points on his license?

  22. Jack (@jackisthestig)
    12th November 2018, 1:29

    The most opportunistic move we’ve seen from Bottas for a long time. He stands there dead-pan just staring straight ahead while all the pushing and shoving is going on around him and then just slots into Ocon’s place in the queue, nice work!

    1. @jackisthestig – LOL :-)

      Somehow, I think that when it comes to race seats, the situation will be reversed in 2020!

  23. Keith, what ever happened to the Caption Contests, that pic is ‘inspiring’ ?

    1. @budchekov – yeah, I miss the caption competion :-(

      Here goes.

      Verstappen: Look up to me, mortal!
      Ocon (bemusedly): Do you really think you’re taller?
      (Verstappen shoves Ocon in his chest because that’s as high as he can reach)

    2. And the picture for this article can be captioned thus:

      FIA Official: Go and fight outside, one of you have already destroyed another set of scales yesterday.

  24. Sorry, but Max being taken out by Ocon is his own fault. Obviously Ocon was on a mission to get by him, Max should have known Ocon was on his inside.
    Hamilton put him straight by saying that he had a lot more to lose.

    1. @dutchtreat The very same Hamilton didn’t leave enough room for Bottas whilst lapping him at this very track 5 seasons ago, which cost him a podium?

    2. “Hamilton put him straight by saying that he had a lot more to lose.”

      Hamilton was misrepresenting the situation – he was only 5 seconds behind Verstappen, but he plays it as if Verstappen could afford to be held up illegally by Hamilton’s Mercedes team mate.

      Ocon drove the race leader of the track illegally – whilst being lapped, running at 16th, and 70+ seconds behind. That being a minor issue can only be the conclusion of someone who is better at hating than loving a sport.

  25. Verstappen is such an immature little brat.

  26. Nothing like two effeminate men having a shoving match.

    1. Stroking match.

    2. Harsh- F1 drivers are never huge blokes, it doesn’t work that way. They are small (yet can be tall) but very light guys!

      They are not effeminate.

  27. It’s a tricky one.

    The truth is, the incident itself was a 50/50, but the circumstances dictate it’s Ocon who shoulders the blame.

    By that i mean, had they actually been racing each other for position it’s one you could honestly chalk up as a racing incident with no driver wholly or predominantly to blame. Max should be giving more room, but Ocon should probably be backing out. Neither do it and collide? that’s racing folks.

    However given it was an unlapping attempt, Ocon is taking unnecessary risks in a fight he shouldn’t be picking. There’s a strong argument that Max shouldn’t be expecting a car a lap down to try and dance one around there when the safe play if he really wanted through was to just back out and pass down the straight or at the end of it, the risks involved to both for a non position pass are just silly, you have to pick your battles and that wasn’t Ocons to pick at that point.

    Yes, Verstappen should be a little more cautious with the room given “just in case”, particularly in the lead at that point, yes, he has no divine right to slam the door shut, but given the two of them shouldn’t have been racing hard in those circumstances and a leader is likely to not think they are in a race with a car a lap down, you have to point the finger at the driver who’s picking the wrong battle and taking the wrong risks.

    As for the aftermath, it’s handbags. They had an argument, a little shoving, the dust settled, they shook hands. No punches thrown. Whilst the FIA probably did have to be seen to do something to set an example, they are probably secretly loving it for publicity. After all, we want to see drivers be a bit more raw.

    If a driver punches a hole in a door after a race, nobody cares….

    1. “The truth is, the incident itself was a 50/50”

      The truth is that the icident was solely Ocon’s fault, and hence ruled the stewards.

      “Max should be giving more room”

      Even when Ocon was racing Max for position, Max was not obliged to give more room. Check the rules.

      “Verstappen should be a little more cautious with the room given “just in case””

      Just in case Mercedes-Ocon would be allowed to get in front and reduce the ‘enormeous’ 5 second gap to Mercedes -Lewis behind Verstappen. This ‘argument’ is created of of thin air and ruled invalid.

      “he has no divine right to slam the door shut”

      Divine is your weasel word. The essence is that Max had the FIA-F1 rules right to close the door.

      “They had an argument, a little shoving, the dust settled, they shook hands. ”

      And Mercedes walks away with the win they could not win on merit, but did win by the actions of Mercedes-Ocon, actions ruled illegal by the stewards.

      How convenient.

  28. Wow! What a fuss!

  29. @budchekov

    no! thats violence following violence :)

  30. I have a serious question now,

    Would Ocon have been shown blue flags had he passed Verstappen at turn 2 ?

    1. @greg-c – Ocon would have pulled away on the back straight for sure with those new tyres (thereby escaping blue flags), but then would have most likely been caught up by Verstappen in the twisty second sector, given RBR’s superior aero, and would have definitely received blue flags at that point.

      1. @phylyp ok , so realistically Ocon was never going to unlap himself as Race Control would have given him the “Get Outa The Way” flag within the lap anyways, ?

        Im guessing that’s why Ocon asked if he could try it on in the first place,

        I can hear Bottas chipping in at the scales when the 2 kids are fighting
        “yeah – he cut me off in Monza”

        1. @greg-c – not for long anyhow, since it’s a short circuit and it was the fastest F1 car (today) vs. an F1.5 car.

        2. “ok , so realistically Ocon was never going to unlap himself”

          no. He was 70 seconds behind and running 16th for a reason at the time he took out the race leader.

          Moreover, at the time he took out the race leader, Ocon was actually lapped again after being in front for about 25 meters.

  31. Bottas

    Outa the way Biatches

  32. Verstappen instigates violence then calls Ocon a ‘*****’ for not reacting physically.

    This is your golden boy, F1.

    1. Slamming into the race leader illegally with a 900 HP machine and robbing the race leader of a race win that by sheer conincidence lands at the same team you are driving for, would not constitute ‘violence’ you’d say?

      1. Infowars would be proud if this comment.

    2. So he pushed him for crashing into him out of sheer stupidity, losing his win and acting innocent with a smurk laugh on his face within a few minutes they got out of the car. Wrong to become physical? Probably. But come on, Ocon had it coming and we can all understand his anger. It shouldn’t be made bigger than it is.

      1. The last time I saw anything like Verstappen’s behaviour was Schumacher / Coulthard, and it didn’t even come to that. It’s understandable because he has been treated with kid gloves and is acting spoilt. I too would laugh in his face for losing his composure.

        To then go on and call Ocon a pussy in the press conference nailed this guy’s character to the wall for all to see.

        Red Bull will never reign their golden boy in, Horner going as far to say he was surprised Ocon didn’t get punched, so we have many more years of this screaming child in F1. Great.

  33. Max and Esteban shook hands after leaving the steward’s office and Max accepts his two daus of community service.

    So everybody who is on the moral highground can come down now. In two weeks there is a new racing weekend.

  34. Lot has been said about this Ocon Verstappen clash. But there is no denying the fact that the entire incident is just crazy. Why would Ocon want to tangle with the race leader (even considering the fact that he was on faster tyres, clashing on the second part of Esses was just brainfade)? Would he have done the same if it was Lewis (probably not and there are obvious reasons)? How careful can a lead car driver be? The penalty is absolutely justified because backmarkers have no business tangling in a race defining incident with the lead car.

    1. “Why would Ocon want to tangle with the race leader”

      Because Ocon is without a seat next year.
      Because Ocon is being outraced by Verstappen for years and years, and this is, in Ocon’s mind, the reason Ocon is not in a top team.
      Because Ocon is a Mercedes driver that handed Mercedes a win, and Ocon feels he needs to pay service other than racecraft alone – as the latter clearly won’t cut it.

  35. There’s F1 in 2018 for you. Act like a man and get a public service sentence from the race (!!!) stewards

    It would be funny if it wasn’t deeply sad

    1. William Jones
      12th November 2018, 8:27

      That’s not acting like a man, not even close, that’s acting like a brat – which is usually a term associated with little girls.

      1. In my book going to someone face to face is acting like a man. It’s not like there was a lot happening between them.

        Max also went straight to Vettel and RIC when he ruined their races.

        1. I agree with that – but when that face to face doesn’t go your way, getting handsy and trying to enforce your will by physical means, that’s when you fall off the cliff of “manliness”.

      2. @William Jones

        now your associating bad behavior with little girls ? grow up clown

    2. @anunaki I would recommend watching UFC or Boxing rather than F1 then.

      1. This would make some dull UFC

      2. I think Max acted like a Senna. Furious in the heat of the moment at being outright robbed. Ocon deserved what he got from Max. Ocon was the one penalized for the incident, showing Ocon was in the wrong. Max will gladly do the two days. The shove was worth it for him. Those arguing against Max don’t like him and therefore won’t put themselves in his shoes. I highly doubt Max has made or will make a habit of pushing drivers a few times on the chest after a race. The penalty to Ocon should make the point to other drivers trying to do what he did, although I doubt many would have done the same.

        1. No-one deserves to be assaulted, no-one. Not your least favourite politician, not your wife when she just gets under your skin and knows how to press your buttons and not a sports competitor.

          1. If you want to call that assault. Let’s see Ocon press charges then. How about the car to car assault on Max. This is a sport and there was heat of the moment stuff going on like in all sporting events that have incidents result in some pushing and shoving, not a disliked politician, nor a wife involved.

          2. Assault has a very precise definition, and that easily met it. If Ocon does not want to go to the police that is his right, but it doesn’t change that Max did assault him.

          3. I disagree.

          4. Go on then Robbie, newly minted expert in law, tell us your definition of assualt

          5. It’s about context, and if what Max did was assault then thousands upon thousands of athletes over many sports would have been charged. Do we pull the license of the likes of Ocon, or even Max for that matter, for multiple collisions with cars, like we would with a domestic repeat offender car driver? Suspend his license? Confiscate his car? Why not? It’s repeated dangerous driving isn’t it?

          6. While we’re waiting for Robbie, here’s the accepted definition across the world:

            Assault is the crime or tort of threatening or attempting to inflict immediate offensive physical contact or bodily harm that one has the present ability to inflict and that puts the victim in fear of such harm or contact

          7. Robbie, do I need to tell you that the Fia does indeed run a penalty scheme for repeated bad driving? That it can result in the suspension or disqualification of a super licence? What’s wrong with you.

          8. The point being that rarely does a driver in F1 get banned for this, and indeed they can get away with many many whacks on other cars especially when they are not occurring in consecutive races, whereas domestically that would not be the case. A bloke would have his license pulled and his car confiscated, but in this case you’d have Max treated like this was two nobody’s getting into a bar brawl. I only bring it up that way because I think there is a nuance to things like this in sporting events when we are paying to see highly paid athletes entertain us, vs. everyday life. If the regular court of law applied to athletes put in sporting situations for our viewing pleasure, then for example Hockey and football (North American and even soccer) wouldn’t exist. I guess tag would still exist, but then again that could be considered assault too by those most determined to make it so.

          9. Sure, but in almost no instance is two cars running into each other a criminal offence – it’s a civil offence. These are not driving on the public roads either – and the laws of driving are intimately tied to the road, and different laws apply when you are on someones land. This is not the case in assault, so lets drop the false equivalence.

            Back to assault. You stated quite clearly that Ocon “deserved” to be pushed. I said that no-one deserves to be assaulted. You disagree that a push is assault and in the face of the Merrim Webster definition, engaged in whataboutism.

            I didn’tsay anything about Max getting “penalised” for his assault, or banned, or any of the other things you have subsiquently brought up to try to derail an objection to a simple point, so I shall say it again.

            No-one deserves to be assaulted. No-one.

  36. Irrespective of the rights and wrongs of Ocon being outside of Verstappen in turn one and inside him in turn two, Vertappen did not have the spacial awareness or the driving maturity to move his car just a bit wide in turn two to give Ocon space.

    Does not matter how right your are and how stupid or in the wrong the other driver is, a collision will cost the race. A smart and mature driver would have sussed out the best option to win the race and that was to give Ocon room.

    A smart driver would also have accepted the tow from the faster car and simply overtaken him again in turn 3 or 4.

    Verstappen has still to learn driving smart. He is fast no doubt, but he is not yet a racer. Something alluded to in Stefan Johansson blog that was linked to in a previous posting on here.

    Racers react to the conditions around them and the best racers figure the odds in each to get first to the finish. Something Verstappen does not do as yet. Hopefully it will come.

    1. I disagree. Max had every reason to expect the right of way after passing Ocon. It is not about Max not being a smart racer, it is about Ocon making a dumb move that the stewards agree was penalty worthy. It is ridiculous to see that Ocon was the one penalized, and then go and call Max the one that still needs to learn. You know, Max…the one that had incredibly achieved the lead and was going to win the race, after minutes before the race saying in an interview he doubted he’d have the car to get by both Ferraris and Mercs, and did anyway. Max was massively robbed here, and his incredible achievement up until that point should not be swept under the carpet by a bad move of Ocon’s that saw him penalized.

      1. If a backmarker doesn’t move from the racing line, you know why you don’t just drive into the back of him? It wrecks your race.

        Max drove into Ocon, and no matter the rights or wrongs of the car position, he has a lot to learn because he did not need to do that, nothing was on the line – not a race win, nothing.

        What’s really sad is that it was Max himself who brought the attitude of “I’m putting my car there, legality be damned. Avoid me or we have an accident” into the sport, and this, exactly this incident is why us old timers decried that.

        1. Actually if it was accurate to say Max drove into Ocon, how did Ocon get the penalty then? What’s really sad is ignoring the facts of the case.

          1. Ocon positioned his car illegally in turn 2 hence the penalty. Did you even read the summons? Coming from you Robbie, an accusation of ignoring the facts of the case is a badge of honour.

        2. Haven’t been able to find where it says Max drove into Ocon. Perhaps point that out to me.

          1. Are you telling me that I shouldn’t trust my lying eyes? Are you really trying to gaslight me Robbie?

  37. He overtook both Ferrari’s and Mercedes

    Who else does that?

    1. In a car that is third in the WDC. As I just finishing saying in my post directly above, let’s not forget Max’s incredible drive up until Ocon ruined it. Any of us would be just as furious at Ocon. Max is incredible, that is one takeaway from yesterday that the world saw, even if he didn’t take the top step on the podium. Max will be a multiple world champion, Ocon will go home.

    2. Exactly.

      Ocon did not only rob a win from Max, he robbed F1 fans from a sensational win against the odds, an entire Grand Prix, the fans from the opportunity to cheer and enjoy it.

      The sport lost yesterday.

    3. Michael (@freelittlebirds)
      12th November 2018, 12:12

      @anunaki @Robbie Well, Max was impressive but let’s not go crazy – the car was capable of a victory. If Daniel had not gotten caught up behind the DRS train of Vettel, Raikonnen, Bottas, he would have been in contention for podium and possibly P1.

      As Horner pointed out Max has scored the most points after Lewis since the summer break (and Daniel would have been up there too). Max was great but that car has a Renault engine – what Red Bull have accomplished with the Renault engine is nothing short of magic.

      1. @freelittlebirds So any driver with a car capable of winning isn’t impressive? It’s all the car;)? Ah, let’s be honest though, it pretty much always takes the WCC car with which to win the WDC, so for sure drivers get coloured by their cars. Even the best can only do so much with a dog, and when they do have the best car, even if it is just for the odd Sunday, they still have to not squander the opportunity that it brings that day. I thought it was rather impressive for Max to once again pass one car right off the start and then hound down the others in short order, the others that were the ones fighting for the WCC.

        1. Michael (@freelittlebirds)
          12th November 2018, 17:40

          @robbie In Red Bull’s case, it’s extremely impressive because the car has a Renault engine which afaik is supposed to be weaker than the Mercedes and Renault engines. This was one of Max’s best races without a doubt up to the crash with Ocon but we would be remiss not to give Red Bull their proper share of praise here – what they’ve accomplished in terms of pace (not reliability) since the summer is absolutely amazing given what they have. The race yesterday was amazing because of everything coming together!!!

          There’s something about Brazil and Verstappen :-)

  38. Because Max uses his elbows when fighting for position like all other drivers do, Ocon is allowed to fight illegally with the race leader when not fihgting for position, but 70 seconds behind.

    In the eyes of Max haters, that constitutes an ‘argument’.

    Ocon has received no punsihment whatsoever. Before taking out the leader: zero points. After the 10 seconds stop and go penalty: zero points.

    But what he could do in that race he did not play a role in, was to play a role for Mercedes.

    Lewis’s first words to Verstappen: damn, that must feel awfull.
    Lewis’s first words to the press: Backmarkers should not interfere like that. It is ‘disrespectfull’.

    But he did not say that.

    Lewis defended the strategy: “he is allowed to unlap himself, you know.”
    To the press Lewis was presenting the situation as if Verstappen was cruising to a win, and could afford Mercedes-Ocon in front and afford Mercedes-Ocon to hold up Verstappen for Mercedes-Lewis – who was only 5 seconds down.

    1. What did Ocon do that was illegal? What part of the rule book says one cannot unlap themselves?

      Nice conspiracy theory regarding Ocon riding shotgun for Mercedes. Any proof or just fevered imagination?

      Face the facts, Verstappen did not have the racers edge in smartness to keep out of a very easily avoided situation that he found himself in.

      1. @Gerrit Convenient of you to disregard all the race smarts Max had to get the lead over them all to begin with, in his third place car while Ferrari and Merc fought over the WCC, and then just erase all that in your mind over an incident Ocon was blamed for officially. What did Ocon do that was illegal? I’ll assume according to the FIA it was the hitting of Max part. Unlapping oneself is only legal when it is done legally.

        1. What Verstappen displayed in passing those drivers was not race smarts. It was driving very fast. Race smarts is reaction to situations and getting the lowest risk best outcome to win the race.

          Big difference.

          As I said before, his reaction to a situation was not smart, foolish in fact, as he compromised his race for no good reason.

          To finish first, first one must finish. Being smart and giving Ocon room would have meant finsihing the race in first place.

          1. Said in hindsight. As it was happening Max had every reason to expect that Ocon would be smart having already been passed, and wouldn’t dive bomb the race leader. Keep blaming Max all you want, most are not on your side including the race commentators and the stewards. Btw, I reject your notion that all Max was doing was driving fast, not racing, but I can’t say I’m surprised hearing someone say that who is grasping at straws to blame someone who is clearly not to blame, and who had clearly raced his way to the front in an incredible manner.

      2. “What did Ocon do that was illegal?”

        Why are you questioning what you know is fact? Because the fact wont’ fit in your narrative.

        “Any proof or just fevered imagination?”

        You can find the proof Ocon is driving for Mercedes on the internet, along with proof that Mercedes is a Mercedes team, Lewis is driving for Mercedes, and that the sport is about money.

        “Face the facts, Verstappen did not have the racers edge in smartness to keep out of a very easily avoided situation that he found himself in.”

        He did, he realized it would be a bad idea to let Mercedes-Ocon in front, let Mercedes Lewis reel in those 5 seconds, and hence took his FIA-F1 rulebook rights in that corner.

        Your attempt to make Ocon’s penalized fault Verstappen’s ‘same old same old’ is dismissed.

      3. Human Joystick
        12th November 2018, 10:07

        You cannot fight to unlap yourself. You have to do it cleanly and without risk.
        Whiting is clear about that explaining why Ocon got the penalty.

        And if you think Verstappen is not a racer, I doubt if you are a human being and not a troll.

  39. What a joke! 1 race ban, violence is out of question!! What a FIA spoiled brat again! They allow him to do everything he wants and he become a monster!! He’s out of his hands already. His resume: crash every race (some call him Crashtappen already), insults with half drivers (Vettel, Raikkonen, Bottas, Ricciardo, Hamilton, Ocon, Sainz jr, ….), insults with the engine suppliers (Renault, Abitabul), insults with ex champions and ex drivers (He told Villeneuve he killed a person…). He’s been out of control lot of years already, they need to shut down his villagers modals once for all.

    1. You’re right, your post is a joke. Also, read the link below to JV’s opinion. Seems like he has become a Max fan after all.

      1. Troll detected.

        1. Said alex to his mirror.

  40. From the comments in this section it is clear to me why Trump is in office.

    1. And then two years and two months later…

  41. Jelle van der Meer (@)
    12th November 2018, 9:07

    Even Villeneuve defends Max pushing and calls Ocon an ambarrassment – case closed :-)

    1. Yup. As is most often the case I couldn’t agree with JV more. Now we see why Ocon is the one without the ride, while Max is doing incredible things.

      1. “Now we see why Ocon is the one without the ride, while Max is doing incredible things.”

        And that is one of the reasons for Ocon’s behavior yesterday. He has known for years and years that he was unlucky to be of roughly the same generation as Verstappen.

        Ocon has been losing out to verstappen more often than not, and yesterday he tried to commit character assasination on Verstappen by playing the ‘he will never change’, falsely suggesting Max was always pushing Ocon around physically. Truth is, Ocon is a sore loser.

        I hope we won’t see Ocon back in F1. I’d rather have drivers engage in honest fist-fights than to witness the weaseling lows Ocon is capable of.

    2. Is this Jacques “Max is going to kill someone” Villeneuve – if his word carries such weight, can we revisit this comment, with the new found respect you have for him?

      1. Not sure if you mean me, but I will respond anyway. I have been a massive JV fan since before he started in CART, and have most often agreed with him throughout the past 25 years. When Max entered F1 I was immediately intrigued and have become a big fan. When JV said that, it was in 2016 when Max was being naughty and was moving on drivers that had already committed to their braking zones, and I agreed that that was dangerous and have never believed in that kind of behaviour, which is why they already had rules for that. I’m glad Max has been learning to the point where now JV is acknowledging his improvement.

        1. Lol, I didn’t mean you. You see, I remember what people say – and I know you didn’t badmouth Villeneuve after that incident, and call his opinion irrelevant.

  42. Some interesting comments,

    I take the racing incident 50/50- Max needed to give room to Ocon to unlap, he didn’t, its pretty clear cut. Ocon did dive in.

    In the scales room, Max was out of line, you cant shove other drivers but shows his spirit – Senna, Schumi and the others done similar!

  43. Max is definitely his fathers son………..all talent and no brain.

  44. “I take the racing incident 50/50- Max needed to give room to Ocon to unlap, he didn’t,”

    left corner, right corner. in the left coirner Verstappen gave room and won, in the right corner Ocon needed (by the rulebook) yield the racing line to the one in front – even if Ocon was racing for position, which he was not. He was 16th and well out of the points, and he destroyed the Grand Prix.

  45. crashtappen deserved what he got, Ocon was passing cars unlapping himself, surely max knew that? With modern intercoms. He then drove straight into Ocon and didn’t leave room. Verstappens pathetic fighting and name calling after the race is of a scared immature little boy. I think it will be ironic if Ocon drives for Mercedes in 2020 and Ocon wins a world championship before crashtappen. Max is fast, but is a disgusting wheel to wheel driver, ne er apologises and just has a bad personality, a real bad sport. He’s the donald trump of f1. Last race he felt violent anger also, he couldn’t take his teammate beating him to pole position. I hope his anger doesn’t spill onto the ra e track, if that’s the case, he is perfectly suited to nascar, they are quick but erratic drivers in that series, and also through childish tantrums and resort to violence.

    1. I think Max deserves a bit more respect than calling him pathetic, immature, disgusting, a little boy, crashtappen and having a bad personality all in one alinea. He had 10 podiums this year. The stewards proved him right in this case as they penalized Ocon pretty hard. Max did more for F1 in the last three years than arguably any other driver on the grid.

    2. Two years and two months later, something terrible happened…

  46. Does anyone actually have an excerpt of the rules regarding drivers unlapping themselves during races? I am reading a lot of people arguing that unlapping does not follow the same rules to overtaking, and others arguing that there is no difference and that unlapping is allowed by the rules. What do the actual rules say on this?

    I think the TV coverage yesterday (Sky) fell short here too in not citing the rulebook; the pundits clearly believed it was Ocon’s fault and Brundle repeatedly insisted that the lead driver should expect a clear path regardless of drivers trying to unlap themselves. Indeed, the stewards agreed with the penalty given to Ocon, but nowhere in the coverage did the rulebook actually get quoted (from what I saw, anyway).

    Until someone gives me evidence in the rules one way or the other, I am undecided.

    1. I’m not sure how it is written in the rule book either, but the implication is that you don’t fight with the race leader as a back marker. If you do attempt to pass the race leader you do so safely and without contact. Of course I know it is not answering your question to not be exactly quoting the rule book, but for me leaving it as one of those unwritten rules, like, you don’t take out your own teammate, is fine too. We don’t want to see races decided after a backmarker took out the leader. Especially taking out Championship contenders which was not the case yesterday.

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