Esteban Ocon, Max Verstappen., Interlagos, 2018

Why Verstappen should have been banned for shoving Ocon


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Let’s have a round of applause for Esteban Ocon.

Not, of course, for the woeful incident which cost Max Verstappen victory in Brazil yesterday. The Red Bull driver had put in a superb performance and was on his way to a victory which would have ranked alongside Lewis Hamilton’s German GP triumph as one of the best of the season.

What Ocon deserves praise for is the tremendous restraint he showed when his former karting and F3 rival came looking for a fight in the FIA weighing area after the race.

Footage of the incident shows Ocon replying to an unheard comment from Verstappen, who then began to push the Force India driver while he was still talking. Ocon raised a hand in defence, prompting Verstappen to shove him again, forcing him off the weighing platform. The pair continued to remonstrate as Verstappen began to walk away, then returned to shove Ocon a third time.

As F1 driver bust-ups go, this is far from Serra/Boesel, Piquet/Salazar, Senna/Irvine or even Schumacher/Coulthard territory. Verstappen was clearly hoping for more; asked in the official FIA press conference whether Ocon had “antagonised” him, he complained only that his rival was “being a pussy”.

When he chooses to, Verstappen is quite capable of expressing himself in clear, forthright and persuasive terms. He doesn’t need to stoop to this kind of behaviour.

But he comes from a background with a troubling reputation for violence. In 2000 Max’s father Jos, while still an F1 driver, was found guilty of fracturing a 45-year-old man’s skull in a fight at a kart track two years earlier. He avoided a prison sentence after an out-of-court settlement was reached.

This was not a one-off. In 2008 the elder Verstappen received another suspended jail sentence when he breached a restraining order against former wife Sophie Kumpen – Max’s mother – when he was found to have send her threatening messages. He had another brush with the law following an alleged assault of a former girlfriend in 2012. Just last year he was arrested again following a fight at a beach club.

Clearly, if Jos Verstappen ever gave his son the standard parental talk about resolving differences with words rather than violence it would have been an exercise in hypocrisy. And it’s equally obvious Verstappen has received no better instruction from his team.

Shamefully, Red Bull team principal Christian Horner went on television and egged his driver on. Ocon was “lucky to get away with a push”, he said.

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FIA race director Charlie Whiting, speaking before the stewards responded to Verstappen’s behaviour, brushed these remarks aside after the race. “It’s not a great thing to hear,” he said. “But in the heat of the moment and having lost a race that they would probably have won I can understand comments like that.”

Max Verstappen, Esteban Ocon, Interlagos, 2018
This lap 44 incident led to Verstappen and Ocon’s fracas in the pits
The stewards ruled Verstappen “made deliberate physical contact” by “starting an altercation, pushing or hitting Ocon forcefully several times in the chest”. They found he violated article 12.1.1.c of the International Sporting Code which forbids “any fraudulent conduct or any act prejudicial to the interests of any competition or to the interests of motor sport generally.”

For all this, they handed down a toothless sanction: performing two days of public service for the FIA. A tedious exercise, no doubt, but hardly an incentive to improve his behaviour.

Predictably, Verstappen attempted to justify his response with the weak straw man defence that he is “passionate about the sport” and “it would be odd if I would shake his hand.”

Of course we want drivers who are passionate about the sport, and of course that can be positive and negative. But passion and violence are not the same thing. The former does not justify the latter. And tolerating violence of any degree is tolerating violence.

The FIA has not taken heed of the warning signs that Verstappen’s behaviour is getting worse. Discussing his fury at being beaten to pole position by Daniel Ricciardo in Mexico he said: “I could literally do some damage to somebody if somebody would say something wrong to me after qualifying, that angry I was.”

However angered Verstappen was by the Ocon collision, the FIA should have sent the message that responding with violence is always worse than a sporting misjudgement committed in good faith. Ocon received a 10-second stop-and-go penalty for clunking into the Red Bull; the FIA should have responded to Verstappen’s behaviour afterwards by throwing him out of the race.

There is precedent for this. In the European F3 championship two years ago Nikita Mazepin was banned from a race for punching rival Callum Ilott. The FIA should have done the same to Verstappen, and taught him a lesson he should have learned at home.

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Quotes: Dieter Rencken


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Max Verstappen, Red Bull, Interlagos, 2018
A furious Verstappen complained Ocon “was being a pussy” during their altercation in the pits

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Keith Collantine
Lifelong motor sport fan Keith set up RaceFans in 2005 - when it was originally called F1 Fanatic. Having previously worked as a motoring...

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513 comments on “Why Verstappen should have been banned for shoving Ocon”

  1. But look here, 300 comments, this has to be one of the most engaging situations in the sport for some time, no?

    If they gave him a ban no driver would consider it ever again… But this is entertainment, right? Not much entertains more than conflict.

    I’m sure they are loving it, I noticed the video of the conflict was available directly on, no dodgy youtube sources, right there on their very website. Sports entertainment indeed.

    1. (@skipgamer) ‘Any publicity is good publicity as long as they spell your name right’ attributed to P. T. Barnum, also an American.

    2. Foto bullying
      13th November 2018, 5:03

      I don’t know what Max actions have to do with the “crimes” his father have done. Max is a independent human being and should not be criticized because of the actions his father committed. Ocon was at fault, max was in front of him when ocon crashed into his floor and rear tire which made him lost control of the car and gifted Hamilton another victory. Many of you wouldn’t be critizicing Hamilton if he was the one that got spun around and lost the race. After all, Hamilton has won 50 races ever since the v6 era with the faster car by a mile, a sing men as the second driver, the faster engine in f1 and all the credit that Hamilton deserves is because he doesn’t make mistakes. Alonso, Ricciardo, verstappen, lerclec, among others, would have won those many races and even more championships if they were racing with a Mercedes. Robbery beat Hamilton fair and squared and Hamilton snapped.

    3. Its nice to have some passion in the sport!

      Lets not get soft, i know its 2018, no one was hurt.

      1. Im going to actually give Max some credit here for his restraint,

        He said as much in the car that he’s going to knock his block off if he finds him.

        and then when he see’s Ocon all he gives is a few shoves and a right telling off .

        So :) , Max showed great restraint

    4. this article is “peeep“ ridiculous.

      max had a great drive, yes he could left more space to Ocon, but Ocon should pick the proper battles and max in that corner wasnt one of them, Period!

      besides that Max was already ahead and Ocon should have Lifted. like Ricciardo did on Vettel in the same corner.

      the only frustrated driver filled with anger is Ocon, look at his body language during the horrible fight.. he is behaving unprofessional and he should be banned!

      most of the people on this site keep on bashing Verstappen, week after week and now again like he commited a murder..

      maybe these kinda articles are good for traffic of the site, maybe because the author hates him for his talent and what he shows on this young age.
      yes Max makes stupid mistakes, but didnt we all on that age? and what were we doing at this age? drive f1 and compete with the best drivers in the field?

      in this race he brilliantly overtook 2 mercs and ferraris and noone is mentioning that.. no Max should be banned!

  2. I thought all the posturing looked ridiculous to be honest, but you’re right Keith, this is more serious than it first looks. Verstappen was treated with indulgence by almost everyone, which will only encourage his on and off track aggression further. Good call.

    1. lmao

      Keith and all of the armchair experts here never ever raced F1 before, let alone dealt with the pressure that comes with it. It’s so easy to say this to say that, but I’m pretty sure when you or Keith would be in Verstappen’s seat, you would have knocked Ocon’s teeth all over the place.

      1. @indiana so you can be pretty sure but we are armchair experts. Got it.

        1. yes, reading the comments from most posters here, they are true armchair experts

          1. Are you not an armchair expert? When have you driven at the top level of motorsport?

          2. petebaldwin (@)
            12th November 2018, 13:43

            Never at the top level but even at the bottom level, tempers flare up and things happen. You shake hands once the adrenalin dies down and you act like men about it. Remember when Schumacher went after Coulthard in the pits in Belgium – can you imagine a hard Scot acting like a 7 year old child about it like Ocon has? “Michael was mean to me and I was very intimidated.” Not a chance!!

            What Verstappen did was wrong but he didn’t endanger anyone’s life like Vettel deliberately crashing into another car behind a safety car…. Let’s keep a level of context here. If Verstappen should be banned for this, Vettel should have been banned for years.

          3. Violence is the first resort of the incompetent …

          4. petebaldwin (@)
            12th November 2018, 14:03

            @elchinero Schumacher, Senna and James hunt we’re incompetent?

          5. And you are that little dweb we all remember that hides behind the school bully egging him on; only to wet your pants when someone faces up to you.

          6. @petebaldwin

            What Verstappen did was wrong but he didn’t endanger anyone’s life like Vettel deliberately crashing into another car behind a safety car….

            Now this makes me laugh…endangering life? And then you go on to talk about keeping a level of context!


          7. petebaldwin (@)
            12th November 2018, 17:40

            Safety Cars exist because Marshall’s may be on track. Ignoring that and deliberately crashing into another car seems fairly dangerous to me. A bit of debris could have flown into the crowd for example – unlikely but possible. Admittedly I probably got carried away by saying “endangering someone else’s life” but if you can’t see that deliberately driving your car into another under a safety car is worse than a one-handed shove, it’s pointles having a debate.

          8. It is hard to credit the “armchair expert” counter with weight when some of us have, in fact, raced – and in series that expect, require and enforce considerably better behaviour than that demonstrated by the man who is receiving the complaints.

      2. Who knows? However I think Verstappen himself turned an unlapping situation into a racing incident, as Hamilton alluded, and so had himself to blame for not being duly cautious into turn 2. He then doubled up that mistake by assuming he was completely in the right and threatening Ocon verbally on the radio, then going about the same after the race.

        I started the season largely defending Verstappen, especially after Baku. That changed for me after the Suzuka incident where he came back on track dangerously and pushed off Raikkonen, damaging his car and race, and still asserted that he was somehow in the right. The media applauded him for achieving 3rd, completely ignoring the fact he’d effectively taken Raikkonen out of contention! That for me was a warning sign that he really does drive around like he owns the track. But if he wants to throw away races by being an idiot, so be it.

      3. Who knows? However I think Verstappen himself turned an unlapping situation into a racing incident, as Hamilton alluded, and so had himself to blame for not being duly cautious into turn 2. He then doubled up that mistake by assuming he was completely in the right and threatening Ocon verbally on the radio, then going about the same after the race.

        I started the season largely defending Verstappen, especially after Baku. That changed for me after the Suzuka incident where he came back on track dangerously and pushed off Raikkonen, damaging his car and race, and still asserted that he was somehow in the right. The media applauded him for achieving 3rd, completely ignoring the fact he’d effectively taken Raikkonen out of contention! That for me was a warning sign that he really does drive around like he owns the track. But if he wants to throw away races like he did yesterday, so be it.

        1. All ex-F1 drivers, Villeneuve, Coulthard, Glock, Webber and many more fully agree the crash was 100% fault of Ocon and Ocon should never have aggressively interfered with nr. 1 position in the race, the little French sod was being lapped and on place 16!! Think what was result of Verstappen becoming nr. 2 in sed of nr 1 in the race.
          1. Mercedes won team world-championship
          2. Hamilton won the race
          3. Bottas remains nr. 3 in driver standings and is not passed by Verstappen
          4. Ocon is under Mercedes contract loaned to force India that has Mercedes engines.
          Wo dares to think something bad here???

          1. Firstly, Ocon was not being lapped. He had come out of the pits behind Verstappen and was legitimately un-lapping himself. Just because someone is leading the race doesn’t mean they’re the only one racing.

            Secondly, if you’re seriously suggesting that Ocon did it deliberately then you’re utterly deluded. Only the most crazed, deluded or totally partisan person would thing such a thing.

          2. Unless my maths are wrong 2nd place for Hamilton would have been enough for Mercedes to secure the Constructors title, so your inference that Ocon handed the title to Mercedes is way off the mark and I for one don’t believe that Ocon is the kind of driver to deliberately take out another driver and looking at repeatedly shown replays nowhere does it look like Ocon is aiming his car at Max to cause a deliberate shunt but I guess some people see conspiracy in everything.

          3. Yet a current driver and a 5 times world champion thinks it was Max who could have avoided the crash. Who is more credible, a current driver and a world champion or some old dudes out of date that never driven against Max?

          4. DOn’t forget, that 5 times world champion had the best view in the world to judge the incident by

          5. Gerrit, you’re forgetting to tell that the time Ocon pitted was about 6 seconds. Could it be that he wanted to go back on the track after Verstappen, to destroy his race on purpose?

        2. He man…. it’s f1 and not touring… what Max did is normal….. when he lost the 1e place by such a frustrated French Mercedes driver who thought he could arrange a seat for next season and was probably a bit overheated by that irritating smile on Ocon’s face…..

        3. I have never been a big Max fan but will admit that I was starting to warm towards him as he has matured a lot this season but the incident in Brazil was completely unnecessary and his reaction after the race was definitely unacceptable. I am one of the few people putting the collision down as a racing accident with Max sharing the blame, don’t get me wrong, I don’t he made a mistake just an error of judgement, he new Ocon was there and could have given him a little bit more room, avoided the collision and gone on to win the race but no he continued to turn in on a car he new was there. Other drivers have made the same move in the same corner without contact, but then we all know Max does not like to be passed …. but what do I know I am just another “armchair expert”.

          1. sorry should read “don’t think he made a mistake”

          2. max has a right to be salty. but the blame lies with him. i just dont get how ppl think its ocons fault. if you think that then you DESERVE the racing we’ve gotten. max doesn’t want racing, he wants to win.

          3. @Foggy exactly, I put the incident down to Max does not like to be passed too. I think that’s what LH meant by ‘go-getter’.

      4. manoli moriaty
        12th November 2018, 13:16

        Keith has been attending, commentating, and analysing races for a living, yet he’s an armchair expert. Your comment on the other hand is an expert view. Right. Jog on, mate.

        1. “Keith has been attending, commentating, and analysing races for a living, yet he’s an armchair expert.”

          Maldonado drives cars for a living, yet he is not always right in his descision making and sometimes he is making a fool out of himself

          1. @indiana So then what’s the matter with being an armchair fan? You just stated yourself that drivers themselves aren’t correct in this sort of thing, yet we can’t comment because we haven’t raced in F1. OK…

        2. Manoli, the overwhelming majority of the real experts, team bosses and people that have raced themselves do not agree with Keith and put the blame firmly with Ocon. As far as the pushing is concerned….. if you dont like people showing emotion….. go watch chess

          1. Ocon attacked Max?

            Article is about post race incident and not race incident.

      5. @Pyon, who was sent to the hospital?… no one….. was it smart what Max did?…. no, it was not but understandable. Was it smart what Ocon did?….. no but also not understandable. Ocon has been complaining about Max from the first day Ocon entered Formula one….. Max never even mentions Ocon and the racing fights they used to have…. in the lower classes. And you know why….. because Ocon is not worth discussing. Ocon’s comments and actions are purely driven by envy.

      6. To quote Jos Verstappen’s misdemeanors as evidence to support the further sanctioning of his son is perverse beyond reason.
        Ronnie O’Sullivan’s old man was banged up for murder, does this mean he should never be allowed to play again?

        1. I agree with that Zeb.

          1. GodindeBeaufort
            13th November 2018, 19:11


        2. The lines about Verstappen Sr are an attempt at explaining Verstappen Jr’s behavior, nothing more.

          Did Ronnie O’Sullivan try to take someone’s life? If not, I don’t see how the analogy is valid.

        3. I thought the purpose of talking about Jos was to say Max hasn’t been set a good example, and it’s up to others to give him the “kick in the bum” that most kids would’ve received from their dad

      7. @indiana we’re all armchair experts, lets get that clear and out of the way. Otherwise we’d be at the weight bridge with Ocon, or talking to Max on podium room. Besides, you don’t need to be an F1 driver to have that adrenaline rush…

        I always find the “armchair expert” argument funny. We all are!

      8. “but I’m pretty sure when you or Keith would be in Verstappen’s seat, you would have knocked Ocon’s teeth all over the place.”

        That as may be (person dependent), but I or Keith would also be (rightly) absolutely lambasted for it.

        Your “armchair expert” nonsense comment is too laughable to warrant a sensible response.

      9. Are you saying someone should have punched Verstappen’s for crashing into them all the time he has taken people out

      10. Max is a hero! A Dutch hero. Ocon was VERY wrong and Max a little bit. This arrogant french prutser has done the same to his own teammate several times as well. One of the reasons he has NO seat for 2019. Ps; any reference to his father Jos in this article is totally out of context and thus irrelevant

        1. For a start he’s just a racing driver not a hero. Second the reference to his father is relevant as he has had and continues to have strong influence over the MV.

          1. Normally I would be against including a driver’s family in a comment about their behaviour, but Max was recently quoted as saying:

            “If they come to me with a psychologist, I’ll kick them out right away.

            “You have to stand firmly in your own shoes. I don’t need anyone. My father is a bit like a psychologist anyway.”

            So his relationship with his father is absolutely in context and Keith has a right to include it.

        2. You shouldn’t talk about arrogance in defense of Max Verstappen. The kid is the most arrogant athlete I can think of.

          Also, the talk is not about the situation on track, but the way he behaved afterwards. While understandable, it was unprofessional and overly emotional.

          The reference to his father, I don’t like either. Max might’ve inherited Jos’ strong character, those pushes had nothing to do with wat Jos did in his private life.

          Btw, the mentioned things were not out of context. Jos did drive into his ex-wife and that fight at the karting track was because of something that happened on the track. And the thing with his father… Do we really need to explain to you that it’s not ok to beat up elderly?

      11. None of us here have ever raced in F1, this is true. But, we are all humans faced daily with how we choose to react given certain situations and stimuli.

        There are circumstances more grievous than not winning a Formula 1 race that many people have to face day in and day out. In every case each person has the ultimate control over how they react, respond and how they choose to act, take action, or not. We are alone responsible for our own actions.

        In this specific case Verstappen cannot even legitimately argue that he acted in the heat of the moment. This was not a reflex reaction. This was an action taken in anger that he could not manage to contain or control. Therein lies the danger of his actions. He chose not to manage his anger, or, he could not control his own anger. This is what needs to be addressed.

        The FIA should require him to take anger management counseling before something worse happens. Then it will be too late. Violence versus reasoning is a choice.

        – – –
        Side note: I personally do not believe any incidents Verstappen’s father was involved in have any bearing on Max’s incident whatsoever. Everyone is responsible for their own behavior.

        1. Well said there @bullmello.

          I even think that contrary to what @keithcollantine mentions, Jos has actually shown his case of misplaced anger as an example for his son not to follow – I think he talked about that in a lenghty interview when Max was just getting into F1 – because he wanted him to learn from his (Jos’) instead of having to make them.

          1. @bascb
            Encouraging that Jos has said not to follow his example. It is terribly wrong of @keithcollantine to use Jos’s history of incidents in any way to condemn Max’s actions. It provides an excuse for Max’s bad behavior. Max alone is responsible for his behavior.

            Discouraging that Max has chosen of his own free will to resort to physical assault instead of choosing anger management of his own accord. The FIA should have required Max to complete anger management counseling. This would have had the potential benefit of helping Max, and to serve as a warning that if he cannot manage his anger in the future, then the FIA will take further and more drastic actions to deal with his anger issues.

            My favorite racer ever is Jim Clark because of his enormous driving skills and his amazingly genteel qualities as a human being. I do realize that not everyone can be like Jim Clark. Shame, that.

      12. Like all those times vettel punched verstappen for taking him out, or punching kyvat? The petulant child is just that, his actions are indefensible and the fact that horner backed him up just shows how immature all of red bull is. Constantly blaming Renault although, most of their failures this year have been from parts made in Milton Keynes. Can’t wait till max’s power unit fails on lap 20 in Australia next year.

        Also where does max go if red bull actually follows through with this years quit threat? Mercedes wont put up with his temper tantrums, the italian media will eat him alive, and we know renault would hire him just to sit him out. Kid is making a very messy bed, and eventually he will have to sleep in it.

    2. Agreed. The sport is better without his agression. Adequate punishment is needed.

    3. I’ve said this from the start. Verstappen should have been banned! But the biggest indulgence this moron has been given is having the blame for the collision put on Ocon. What a load of crap!

      Ocon did not ‘clatter’ into the RedBull, he did not ‘run into’ the RedBull at all. Look at the damn footage!

      When they made contact, Ocon was at least half way alongside and as far to the right as he can be without leaving the track. He was where he was ENTITLED to be. Verstappen on the other hand had the ENTIRE WIDTH OF THE TRACK to his left, but decided to try and occupy the very small amount of the track Ocon was RIGHTFULLY on.

      The collision was ENTIRELY the fault of Verstappen and he should have been penalised for causing a collision. Yes, Ocon was lapped, but the regulations allow him to unlap himself. The regulations, however, DO NOT remove his right for him to be given racing room.

      Everyone who automatically decides that simply because Ocon was lapped the collision was his fault is being totally ridiculous. Put your objective head on and look at what actually happened. And read the damn regulations. Being a lapped car does not change your right to fair racing room. Ocon was on the inside of the corner, had a ‘significant’ portion of his car alongside and was making the corner well. They collided because Verstappen closed the door while Ocon was half way through it.

      The entire I didn’t was Verstappens fault.

      1. @nick101 Entirely this. I wonder if sometimes people thing F1 is only the first 5 cars.

        1. @fluxsource Yep, a lack of respect for slower cars is just awful. Just look at how Perez was complaining about Williams in front in Singapore, they was literally asking to show a blue flag to a car he couldnt pass.

      2. Ver had every right to follow the racing line as he did. It was entirely ocon fault. Icons ego again ran away with him. Not the first time ocon rammed someone. His pedigree as a street fighter probably….

      3. To say it was Verstappen ‘s fault is so easy. If Hamilton had been in that position he’ s been screaming murder if a slower car even came near him. Yes, regulations state you can unlap yourself, but always in a safe manner. Even C. Whiting, not Max’s greatest fan to say the least, called Ocon’s action unacceptable. If you have been slower then the race leader for 40 laps, how stupid can you be to assume you are this much faster to overtake him?
        His laptime was 3/10 of a second faster during 1 lap, and he think he can give it a go on DRS? If he’d been held up for a couple of rounds, different story. But then as Charlie put it “in a safe way”.
        And then also precisely in the corners where the Red Bulls where stronger then anyone else during the race?
        Only a Frenchman can be so dumb.
        And although we are not huge fans of Max’s dad in Holland, it’s a load of crap to get him into this.
        If a shove is in your opinion reason to take a sportsman out of a game, most of British soccer games would end up with only two goalies…
        Bunch of crybabies.
        Besides, who knows what Ocon said to Max in the paddock?
        And your mighty Hamilton was crying after qualifying that Sirotkin “wasn’t respectful to him.”
        Hamilton has had an awful lot of luck that he was helped to victory, this time not by his teammate but by another Mercedes driver. Couldn’t hold onto Max on his own. He should have kissed Ocon after the race instead of his Mercedes….
        A fatherly talk…
        When a 21 year old sportsman is competing on this level, somebody has done something right.
        Everyone has his mistakes, but like Lewis, Max is grateful to his dad for helping him during his entire career.
        He doesn’t idolize him like you suggest.
        And yes, Max has fury in him. Guess who also had this fury?
        Only the greatest driver of all times, the man who is idolized by your King Hamilton, Ayrton Senna (who’s level he will never reach even if he becomes 8 times WC, just because he’s got no fury.) Brains yes, but to become the greatest it takes more than that.
        Oh, and BTW, Max’s mother Sophie attends several races, so get your story straight.

        1. Only a Frenchman can be so dumb.

          Please Keith, can we have an ignore commenter function. Just thing, one click and I never have to read garbage spewed by this clown ever again.

  3. This is an interesting take and a perfectly valid opinion but it’s both low and unnecessary to refer to his father. It both dismisses the role of mother in nurture and sets a dangerous precedent of genetic phrenology. He’s his own person. This is mad arguing.

    1. And it is ridiculous to do all this pseudo-psychology of how his father raised him. Gutter press, tabloid stuff.

      1. Agreed, disgusting!

        1. This quote is gold though. @hohastolze & ‘non-registered guy’

          The FIA should have done the same to Verstappen, and taught him a lesson he should have learned at home.

      2. To use the term “Genetic Phrenology” in this instance, indicates that your obvious favouritism towards MV results in automatically adopting a particular, defensive position, and don’t have a grasp of the facts

      3. My thoughts exactly! This article is written with so much prejudice and it’s not even about Max Verstappen, but the missteps his dad has committed.
        What’s next? Ban all German drivers because some of their family members where part of Nazi Germany?

      4. It’s not a huge jump to assume he learnt to deal with conflict by emulating his father.

        1. Mark .. Verstappen has never been physically violent in the past so keep his father out of it!

        2. So every child of a rapist will become a rapist..

          it’s these kind of disgusting thoughts social media flourishes on..
          Again, i have no words for the way a serious F1 fan site lowered itself

          1. @erikje 100% agreed. already scanning interwebs….

          2. Not a 100%, but a father’s role model plays a huge role in parenting as an example of behavior. You cant really argue with that, can you?

        3. Dutchguy (@justarandomdutchguy)
          12th November 2018, 13:20

          @mark. It might be, but before you bring it like it’s a fact, it has to be proven first.

          Verstappen’s confrontation was unproffesional, and his attempt to justify was way worse, but resorting to this kind of “explanation” to his behaviour belongs buried in a youtube comment section. There are plenty of kids who act nothing like one – or either – of their parents, so acting like Max is Jos II is unjust. We’ve seen drivers, greats of the sports, react similarily and we’re now treating it as one of their strengths, their better moments, a sign of determination (Senna, Schumacher, Piquet, 2 of those going quite further than Verstappen)

          Verstappen was stupid, but this blown out of proportion. Sanction was deserved, and IMO, the right one for a first offender. I know Verstappen isn’t popular, but these overreaction to every accident he’s involved in (look at the start of the season) improves nothing. Everyone even remotely defending him is suddenly branded a fanboy, and people twist their reasoning in anyway possible to make verstappen F1’s biggest all time problem. We had drivers pretty much getting away without a ban for vehicular assault, deliberatly driving others into a wall, cussing out the stewards and one driver was allowed back into the sport for 2 more seasons after smashing a glass on Lotus owner Eric Lux, and being convicted for actual assault. And, mind you, this all happened after 2010

          If Verstappen still isn’t done and decides to punch Ocon in a pre-race briefing in Abu Dahbi, I’d say they should kick him out for a year, but for now, this seems appropriate and will/should certainly tell him we don’t want to see this anymore.

      5. my father was violent to me and my mother .. i am nothing like my father in that respect .. it just baffles me why Keith would even mention it! that push .. i see worse every weekend on the football pitch!

        1. Frank Ribery punched a journalist this weekend after losing 3-2 against Dortmund.

        2. @arnoudvanhouwelingen You are nothing like ur father because you basicaly were a victim of that behavior. However a lot of people, when faced with such circumstances later in life behave similar way as their parents did.

      6. Mindless and disturbing to refer to his father…..A couple of pushes is all we are talking about. Get a life!

      7. Well his father did punish him for weeks at a time whenever little Verstappen would make a mistake during a kart (as in, when Max was like 10 or 11 years old) race. You have a valid argument, but there’s a lot of proof to the contrary

      8. @hahostolze

        And it is ridiculous to do all this pseudo-psychology of how his father raised him. Gutter press, tabloid stuff.

        Keith’s father probably raised him to do this :P

      9. Pseudo-psychology to link father to son? Take it from Verstappen himself after the incident!

        If they come to me with a psychologist, I’ll kick them out right away. You have to stand firmly in your own shoes. I don’t need anyone. My father is a bit like a psychologist anyway.

        Arguments that his father is irrelevant to his attitude (psychology) completely blown out of the water by Verstappen himself! I won’t expect a retraction of course…

        1. …and note the ‘kick them out right away.’ Anger management the Red Bull way. Most famous product of the Horner conditioning: Seb Vettel.

    2. @hahostolze
      Max isn’t to blame Jos. He is his own man and deserves a chance to forge his own career outside Jos’s transgressions. He isn’t Jos. He is Max.

      But Keith is right to bring it up. Because Max clearly idolises his dad. He says it himself. It’s his dad that attends races and give him advice. It’s his dad who he looks to for advice on how to race. He says that, not me. And blind Freddy can see the influence Jos has on Max’s driving style. Take no prisoners and never ever back down.

      You mention his mother’s influence. Is this the same mother who never ever attends his races. The mother who had to take a restraining order out against Jos. The mother who was bashed by Jos. This is the same Jos that tried to run over his girlfriend with a car!

      In fact I bet that if Jos wasn’t a former F1 driver and the father of Max, and you read about him in the papers. You would be arguing that the government isn’t doing enough to lock up people like him that can use their money and power to buy their way out of situations like he has found himself in. He is a deplorable human being and it makes me cringe when people celebrate him. I was a massive fan of Jos way back then. But he wasted his own career with his passion and I was left disappointed back then.

      Being aggressive and bashing your wife might have been OK in the past. But the world has moved on from that and for good reason. It isn’t and shouldn’t be acceptable. Passion is great. Violence isn’t.

      This isn’t gutter press. It is clear to see that if Max wants to go far n F1, he needs to start outgrowing his dad and stop idolising him. Because when he finally outgrows his dad, he will finally become his “own man”. To Max’s credit, I have been saying for a long time that I think that in the future, Max and Jos will have a massive bust up. I bet in 10 years, they won’t even speak to each other. Hopefully it is for the right reasons and not just because 2 hard heads couldn’t agree in the best way to not care about other people in the world.

      1. I don’t know if it translates well but in France when somebody needs to get out of the shadow of his mentor to achieve new heights, we generally say he needs to “kill the father”. It’s not literal, it’s a part of growing really. It’s a way to say “become his own man” and distance itself from his first mentor (who can be his genetic father). Hamilton did the transition, Max can do it.

        I generally agree with Keith that Max shouldn’t get a pat on the shoulder by anyone in charge for such behaviour (and no whataboutism will be acceptable to my eyes for that matter. Max is not the worst high profile offender by far but it doesn’t really matter, the question is when the first threshold is passed).
        I’ve been in competitive sport and bullies (or bully fathers for that matter) are a scourge who ruin the pleasure to compete and attack what’s best with sports. And my history with it is that bullies build up to higher levels from emerging Scott free from small infringements.

        I however absolutely disagree with making Max accountable for his father’s actions or at least to linking Max recent behaviour to his father as if there was a causal link. This is not acceptable from a serious news site. I think Keith should rephrase it by saying that if Max states repeatedly that his father is his model, maybe he should avoid this part of his father’s exemple. In that matter I agree with @mickharrold

        And I hope that Max gets to “kill the father”. I’d hate that he becomes bound by the same limitations and weaknesses than his father.

      2. @mickharrold you make interesting and valid points. But things like: his mother never attends races? She’s probably been at 20+ of his races. He used to live with her, not his dad. This is all such pseudo-Freudian twaddle.

      3. @Mick Harold You left out that Jos was arrested ac while ago for beating up his own father. It’s not out of the question that same conflict will eventually erupt between Jos and Max. History has a way of showing us what the future may hold. @Kieth Your article is reasonable and logical despite the fact the you will be villified for it by the juvenile thinking Max fans.

        1. @angie
          Nice one.. You seem to detest people with a different vision on the events. That does not sound very mature.

    3. Agreed. We are our own individuals, not the inevitable consequence of our ancestors. Max is responsible for himself and is in a position of leadership where he should be aware of his influence. Blaming it on past incidents by his father cheapens his responsibility in the matter. We have no real insight into how he was raised and what he was taught so this is all cheap conjecture and wrong. However, Max should grow up.

      1. I don’t care about has been (never was) Jos Verstappen, but the comparison is Valid.

        Regardless, Max is a spoiled, entitled, hot headed, petulant child who spent the whole first half of the season trying to punt everyone off the track and then has a hissy fit and gets violent when yet another one of his own Ill timed and disastrous moves happens to take out himself as well as his rival.

        First thing that should have happened was Verstappen, not Ocon should have been penalised for causing a collision, then when he got violent with Ocon, Ocon should have punched Verstappens ugly head in.

        Verstappens is a bully and bullies only respect one thing – force.

        Verstappens is a disgrace.

    4. Agreed and thank you for pointing this out. Very low from author.

    5. Totally agree with @hahostolze and had to double check who wrote the piece because it does not fit in with the usually high standard of writing on this site. Very disappointing.

      1. GodindeBeaufort
        13th November 2018, 19:21


  4. I love Verstappen. But I agree it is not okay at all to shove people like that, So I think fairly big penalty should be given to Verstappen. Although I would not have done it better myself. I have also been shove people when emotions got too much.

  5. I agree. Race ban. Wonderfully said passion does not equates with violence. Now that he had something to race for taken from him due to a racing incident it does turn the table around. When he was driving with nothing to lose smashing into others or knowing that they had more to lose they would rlrisk less. How the tables have turned…

    1. Overtaking is not the same as unlapping. It does not make sense to look at this as if it was an overtaking situation

      1. It makes even less sense to think of this as an unlapping situation – this was violence. No excuse. A race ban would not be undeserved here – and that’s coming from a Verstappen fan.

        Would have been nice to see Charlie give Horner a bit of a slap on the wrist for his comments to be honest.

    2. Violence give a break .. a simple push is not violence in the sense of what Mazepin did. Mazepin got a race ban because he punched Illott twice in the face resulting in a black eye and a broken jaw for Illiott. To compare those punches of Mazepin to that push of Verstappen to justify a race ban is just riduculous .. i say it again RID-DI-CU-LOUS! The difference between the face of Ocon and Illiott after the incident is that of a smurky smile (Ocon see picture above) and a bloody swollen face (Illiott) … and that whole gene inherit stuff is right out of the Nazi playbook!

      1. It is textbook assault, if you prefer that term.

        1. Not in most European countries. In the Netherlands or Belgium you would never get arrested or sued for pushing someone.

          1. Same the world over, that doesn’t mean it’s not textbook assault.

          2. @Hulk Under certain circumstances, you could be charged and convicted for an assault consisting entirely of pushes in the UK or France. (In fact, in the UK, it’s possible to be charged and convicted for an assault consisting purely of words, if those words were badly-enough chosen and spoken aggressively enough to a specific target). As these are the nations in which this blog and the FIA respectively have their rules rooted, it is natural that this would be considered.

            Of course, the part where Max’s homeland wouldn’t arrest or sue anyone for an assault based entirely on pushes (or necessarily deem it assault in the first place) is also relevant here.

          3. Worth remembering @alianora-la-canta that Max races under a dutch flag but is from Belgium

          4. @William Jones This is so.

            I have no idea what Belgian law has to say on the matter.

        2. Dutchguy (@justarandomdutchguy)
          12th November 2018, 18:47

          I study law, and whilst this techincally can indeed be included, a conviction in a case would be very light (Dutch law) I’d guess he’d get a fine, or community service, but very little else. That is, if it even gets to court, because the prosecutor might just as well decide this isn’t worth the time and effort

      2. @arnoudvanhouwelingen

        Oh come on, be sensible. Saying that this isn’t violence because someone else did something worse is silly – using your argument, people have died from violence, Illot survived therefore Mazepin was not violent. To use your words, how ridiculous.

        This was violence. Mazepin was also violent.

        1. Dutchguy (@justarandomdutchguy)
          12th November 2018, 18:48

          Yes, but there is something called proportionality.
          The fact Verstappen was also violent doesn’t mean he was as violent as Mazepin, and the punishment reflects that.

  6. Yes, KC – YES

    And that’s not even including the Canada headbutt comments either

    1. Speaking of Canada..
      In 2008 Kimi took potential victory stupid crash by Hamilton with patience.
      He deserved a punch in the face lol.

  7. Really??
    I have no words for this article.. did not know F1fanatic would do these kind of articles.

    But he comes from a background with a troubling reputation for violence

    how low can you go?

    1. Racefans gutter snipe article.
      Editor is clearly an uptight frustrated something or other. Really nasty, red top tripe. When Dieter Recken left Autosport I followed him here, very nearly paid a subscription, thought it was good value compared to the 50 odd pounds I pay Autosport. However I held back for a while and I’m really glad I did. It’s not the money, rather the principal. I almost mixed up what I thought was good value for just plain ‘cheap’. Perhaps it’s time the FIA reviewed their accreditation process. With this level of journalism from a so called accredited ‘journalist’ the bar is set incredibly low.

      1. @Tipperracer you only take issue because you know it to be true and you don’t like it.

    2. petebaldwin (@)
      12th November 2018, 13:50

      It is a disappointing line and is the first time I’ve seen something like this on here. Everyone is entitled to their opinion though but it’s certainly something I would have expected in a YouTube comments section rather than from a quality journalist like Keith.

      1. I agree. I think that this is mostly a great blog on motorsport but I think on this occasion Keith is way off the mark and the comment is a bit tabloid in its nature.

        There is no way Max should have had a ban for this incident. The sanction is quite lenient but then a lot worse has happened before without sanction.

        1. Duncan Snowden
          12th November 2018, 14:22

          Absolutely agree. As Keith says himself, “this is far from Serra/Boesel, Piquet/Salazar, Senna/Irvine or even Schumacher/Coulthard territory”. I think the penalty was a little lenient too, and that Max’s character could do with some of the sharp edges being knocked off a bit, but it’s crazy to start making him out to be some kind of borderline psychopath, delving into armchair psychiatry over his upbringing. He was angry, and had every right to be. He should certainly have restrained himself more than he did, and I’m not condoning what he did, but a couple of shoves is hardly the Rumble in the Jungle. I’m by no means a violent man – I’ve never been in a fistfight in my life – but I could see myself reacting in a similar manner in the heat of the moment. You see much, much worse in other sports.

          1. +1 Duncan, all of this verbal posturing about “violence” having seen Verstappen, whom Ive always disliked, nudge a stupid entitled idiot brat, whom doesnt realize the damage he’s just done for no gain what so ever, around a little bit, is completely misplaced and exaggerated. With fans like this, no wonder we don’t have gladiators to watch anymore.

    3. @keithcollantine, the best what you could do is remove this article it’s setting a atmosphere that Max is a psychopath while your not qualified in the materie. Your bringing up things which is desrespectfull because his father is violent so his son is also violent.

      Do you see the first Foto Ocon smirking here in Holland would cost his teeth you should talk about that. Max was very restraint in his reaction. Glad Ocon is banned next year.

      1. “I don’t like what you have to say, so I don’t think you should say it”

        Quality argument from a great mind.

        1. I don’t like what Keith wrote so he should rewrite it so the Jos comments stay out of it while expressing his view. Bringing Jos past into the article is tabloid niveau so Max is the same as his Father. Still i am not agreing with his view but if he think he allowed to (Keeping family and things out of it)

          1. The moment you said Esteban should lose teeth over a smirk, revealed to me you’re a child. Adults don’t resort to violence over such foolishness. If you had said Max should’ve lost teeth for putting his hands on a grown man, then I would’ve agreed with you. Also, Ocon isn’t banned you uneducated fool.

          2. Frame it how you like, you’re still showing your authoritarian/childish side

      2. Ocon is NOT banned next year. Try to get your facts right when you pontificate.

        1. Does he have a drive in F1 next year, it seems not. I don’t like Ocon very much and that is from F3 all the tricks he does but that my view. Ocon grown man not even over 75 years.

          @gufdamm, Yes i did that is the way goes with people pulling nails from the finger and laughing smirking about behind you back. And for you information Adults don’t resort to these matters open your eyes to the world outside visit some pubs in the weekends. I still act as a child because it keeps me young in a aging body (60+)

          1. There’s a difference between a ban and not finding a race seat for 2019.

            The difference would be apparent if one of the Mercedes drivers was unlucky enough to get an injury preventing their participation in a 2019 race.

    4. Imagine that someone with an opinion writing about it on HIS F1 website.! Whats next?

  8. After you have fully milked this for your website, don’t forget to start the discussion all over again during the build up towards the next race

    1. Because speaking against an act of violence that’s widely been found acceptable is completely out of place.

  9. It’s a shame this article hangs so much on the perceived inherent flaws in Verstappen jr and sr when it makes a very valid point on the curbing of combative language and behaviour in a young man. His team obviously don’t do enough of it. His father probably doesn’t either. But this would have you believe it’s a serious personal failure. It’s unnecessary.

    1. Dutchguy (@justarandomdutchguy)
      12th November 2018, 13:28

      If I were the FIA, I’d leave Verstappen’s penalty as is, and give Horner a stern warning. Verstappen was unproffesional, but I think it’s worse -and more dangerous – that his teamboss is cheering it on

      1. Thank you.
        Max is an idiot in the clinical sense because he threw away a win because of his arrogance and stupidity but C Horner’s comments are more those of a thug than a team boss. Shockingly unprofessional.

        1. and I might be in the minority but applaud Keith’s article because that is how I see it too.
          Highlighting Jos might have been unnecessary but so many times the apple does not fall far from the tree. Keith’s point is valid and many times in the past two Max’s on track behaviour has been shocking.
          A strong response from the FIA would have helped rather hindered Max

    2. I agree with you about the team not doing enough (see Horner’s comments, I also think Vettel could have learnt some more control had they guided him more instead of looking at their angel in him) @hahostolze.

      But I am pretty sure that Jos did his best to show Max that he should not repeat his own mistakes with anger and impatience because he knows they did not help his career along. I think he talked about that in a long interview towards the start of Max’ F1 career.

  10. I totally agree with this. Not only do I think that it was arguably Verstappen’s fault that the incident occurred in the first place, there is never any justification for resorting to violence. And when a person does choose to use their hands rather than their head to resolve an issue, they should be roundly condemned and it should be made clear that this sort of behaviour is totally unacceptable.

    Keith is right in pointing out the influence of Verstappen’s father. It also should be a reminder that behaviour like this is learned from a young age, specifically whilst youngsters are in their formative karting years. F1 always needs to stand as an example to young racers of the expectation as to how they conduct themselves. A meagre, token punishment, along with plenty of people lining up to justify his violence as being a reasonable reaction to being denied a win (how pathetic…), sends out a message to all those kids – actually sometimes violence is pretty much fine.

    Let’s put to bed this notion that this happened somehow in the heat of the moment. The moment came in the middle of the race. Verstappen had, what, half an hour to think about how to react? And in that time he made the decision to immediately seek Ocon out after the race and confront him, apparently with no intention of restraining himself. This is practically a premeditated attack. Sure, let’s not imagine that he’s picked up a wrench and stoved his head in. But he’s engineered a situation where he has deliberately sought out a violent confrontation, not in the heat of the moment, but having spent half an hour working himself up to it.

    If anything, this whole debacle will have left Verstappen feeling even more entitled and empowered – the weak punishment amounts to an admission that this isn’t taken at all seriously and that the punishment is just a formality so they can show that they’ve done something. The possibility of a child being attacked by another child (or adult-on-adult) at a karting event has just been increased thanks to how the FIA have reacted.

    1. The moment came in the middle of the race. Verstappen had, what, half an hour to think about how to react?

      The moment came in the middle of the race, after which Verstappen spent the other half driving his ass off in a damaged car, determined to make up for the situation Ocon put him in.

      Besides that: as long as the conversation before the pushing (where Verstappen walked away from himself al- by the way) remains unclear and that it is impossible to say whether Ocon added insult to injury or not I refuse to say whether Verstappen was too harsh.

      Was it unnescessary? Definitely. Was it good sportsmanship? Definitely not. Are we making this bigger than it is? For sure. Is it good for F1? Yup. Can you blame Max for his father fracturing someone’s skull when he was 3? I’d say not.

    2. @mazdachris: Agree. Max must feel very entitled to act like a petulant child who gets paid to be a professional F1 driver. His ‘passion’ is reinforced by his team and his fans.

      But, next year if trips over a Racing Point car, he may get a more expensive taste of entitlement. Not just a shove, but a smack across the face with a big bundle of crisp thousand dollar bills. Those can leave a mark.

  11. He demonstrated the behaviour of an entitled bully. He might be “a winner” but his behaviour was pathetic and not a passionate, heat of the moment lapse. He decided to go and confront Ocon and took more than enough time getting to him for it to clearly he a choice of sound mind.

    But I don’t agree it warrants a track related sanction as it was an off track incident. I think the punishment should have been harsher but I feel the nature of an off track punishment is appropriate.

    1. But I don’t agree it warrants a track related sanction as it was an off track incident. I think the punishment should have been harsher but I feel the nature of an off track punishment is appropriate.

      It took place on the property of a company operating an event sanctioned by the FIA, being broadcast to millions by the commercial rights holder.

      Whether it’s on or off-track is irrelevant.

      1. @optimaximal

        It’s entirely relevant. It wasn’t a sporting infraction and while it warrants sanction I don’t think it should be one that interferes with a sporting result.

        1. It wasn’t a sporting infraction” It was an UNsporting action during an FIA event.

  12. I think this is going a bit far, he pushed someone with one hand, it was stupid but no one was hurt.

    If he had walked up and punched him a more serious punishment would be needed but it was just an argument after he must have been furious and stuck in the cockpit for half an hour.

    1. @glynh I wonder though how it would have panned out had Ocon not been quite so passive in his response. Personally I think had Ocon responded in kind, it would have turned into a full-on fistfight. I’ve seen enough fight to be able to spot when someone is trying to create one, and that seemed exactly what Verstappen was trying to do. Hence, as Keith says, Ocon should be applauded for being the bigger person and not rising to the bait. Particularly when he had plenty of reason to feel like he was the injured party in the on-track incident.

      1. @mazdachris Agreed, if it had been two Verstappens there probably would have been a fight. We can’t know either of their intentions of course though so shouldn’t let that influence punishments.

      2. looking at the body and face language of Ocon you can easily advocate he was provoking Verstappen.

        And let’s stick to the facts.. not fantasies what could have happened. If Ocon did not made the stupid mistake nothing would have happened!

      3. Interesting, @mazdachris, Ocon wasn’t that passive.
        I only googled the ‘fracas’ (great word) now and it is clear that after Max first pushes Ocon, Ocon then pushes Max back.

        It won’t change the opinion of many though.

        It was wrong for Max to push, but a couple of days community service seems enough to me.

        1. Ocon didn’t push him back, I believe what you think is a push back is in face when Ocon puts his hand up in the “stop” position

          1. when Ocon puts his hand up in the “stop” position

            of course not, just check the video clear as (see Ocon’s shoulders moving forward to ‘push’ rather than say stop)
            It’s just that Ocon couldn’t make it a real ‘push’ as Verstappen pushed his arm aside.

            I don’t mind what peoples opinion is on this; but please don’t distort the facts in the face of video evidence. We already have a president’s spokeswoman doing that.

          2. @Coldfly Well, we both saw a video where we both say Ocon didn’t push Max. Difference is, last time you saw it, you said he did push Max. You want to start talking about the presidents spokeswoman, it’s you who has just told two contradictory versions of events while refusing to admit you originally made a mistake. That’s the sort of behaviour I expect from that administration.

            Ocon’s arm, in that video was almost fully stretched at it’s closest too Max – go push something with that stretch of your own arm and tell me, is it likely someone would attempt an aggressive push from that far away, or is it far more likely to be a defensive move. I would suggest to you that if he did with to push Max, he:

            1. Would not have leaned forward, as you noted – the position of his shoulders is open, off balance – not ideal for shoving
            2. Would have stepped in – If he was trying to be aggressive, he would have gotten closer so his shove wasn’t as weak as you just found out it would have been. Maintaining distance between yourself and an aggressor is a defensive action, not aggressive.

        2. Yeah, I watched that video a couple of times on Sunday, and I also get the impression that Ocon was not at all apologetic, rather provoking at the start, then backed off but once the FIA official got in he seemed to be rather taunting again @coldfy.

          Hard to know exactly, but I would think the FIA stewards know what was said between them there and that was part of their thinking with the verdict.

          1. eh, that should have been @coldfly

          2. It’s worth remembering that people to not act like in hollywood films while in a situation of aggression. You can read exactly nothing into his facial features about his intent, or his feelings, because hey, guess what, when people not used to violent confrontation are in a violent confrontation – they don’t know what to do.

      4. @MazdaChris I also wonder what would have happened if Ocon as soon as he saw Max would have said. “Sorry mate, bad judgement call”, then he would have had a right to complain about Max his behaviour.

        1. He said nothing but his face says it al smirking…

          1. He’s not smirking – he’s looking at the guy, incredulous, wondering why he’s doing this in front of 2 other drivers, several event officials and the worldwide media.

          2. @optimaximal @macleod …and while he was being weighed, which as we were reminded 24 hours ago, is a procedure the FIA takes extremely seriously and does not appreciate drivers messing up with “off-script” ideas…

    2. I think this is going a bit far, he pushed someone with one hand, it was stupid but no one was hurt.

      He pushed Ocon off the weighing platform, that is not insignificant. A misplaced foot and Ocon could have easily lost balance and taken a head injury. Max Should have definitely taken a ban for that.

      It’s laughable that MAx is even angry at Ocon. Once again Max does not leave enough space for a competitor and causes an accident. Maybe one day he will learn but I can’t see him bringing home a WDC if he doesn’t

      1. yes, Ocon could have died there.. his blood would have short circuited the electronics of the scales and the Fia members and racers in line on the spot would be electrocuted . By god.. we juist escaped a F1 disaster of epic proportions.. and all of it just by pushing Ocon.
        I vote for the dead penalty

        1. So really, in your eyes it’s Ocon’s fault that he was pushed by Verstappen? Christ

        2. erikje : …a load of twaddle…

          So what you are saying is that it is impossible to ever fall over, impossible for a person’s head to ever make contact with any hard surface and impossible for anyone to ever take any injury at all? You are basically saying that it actually turns out that humans are completely and totally invulnerable? Who knew!

          See Reductio ad absurdum is a multiplayer game :)

          Also pretty hilarious that that is your response given you were out claiming Hamilton was driving dangerously in Qualifying, he didn’t even make contact with another driver! What’s dangerous about not making contact with another driver? Or maybe, just maybe, you should admit that the consequences of a situation maybe be more severe than what was actually observed?

          Please take your Verstappen tinted glasses off for a second.

          1. I just went on where your fantasies ended. So still the dead penalty.


    3. This incdent is all about his image and the impression he creates with his actions.
      I think Verstappen deliberately wants to foster that idea of the unpredictable driver
      whom everyone is fearful of. Not unlike his father’s image when he was racing.

      I think this ‘community service’ will provide Max with another perspective of the public
      who idolises him, and for that reason could benifit him.

      If he doesn’t grow up soon, he’ll become one of those drivers who is simply undeserving
      of the championship. Once again his own character gets between himself and the ultimate
      goal of excellence.

      1. Ajaxn, I totally agree. I also admire Ocon for holding back. Perhaps he made the wrong decision in the race but then again Max was showing his usual attitude that he owns the track – Lewis was correct, Max could have left more room to be safe and still be totally in the race. Max might think he is going to win a World Championship and he well might but not earned in my point of view if his attitude does not drastically change. Been watching Formula 1 since mid 1960’s. I did have a great deal of time for Max (even if he was a little erratic) but lost interest in him now. Who knows in time he may grow up. Just hope that Daniel R can get a better life with his change of team.
        Little disappointed in Christian Horner. He would be one of a few in F1 management that I greatly admire. Don’t think his comments re this incident were good – really surprised me.

        1. Ocon was not holding back. He provoked. Even stepped toward Ver in an attempt to provoke him further. Look closely to the second part of the footage.
          He felt safe with the FIA official close by.
          Disgusting behavior. He just had to apologize and nothing would have happened at all.

          1. Lucky for Max the other driver wasn’t say someone like Kimi, Max would have been flat on his arse.
            Max looked stupid. But maybe not to his dutch fans… John Dowie had it right. LOL

      2. @Ajaxn Hmmm… …if so, Max needs to take a different actions to create the image. All he did here, to my eye, was to make himself look like a fool with no regard for his own self-interest and entirely capable of defeating himself, therefore in the long run not really anything to worry about.

  13. He Keith .. it is so so so low of you to compare Max to actions his father Jos did in the past .. you should be ashamed of yourself for doing so! Max has never been violence in the past . i double dare you to give me one instance that Max punched someone in his entire life!! Also a punch is totally different than a push .. a punch is way more severe than a little push so a race ban would be ridiculous. Also in the FIA ruling it also stated that Ocon said something to Verstappen that aggrevated the situation. You don’t know what Ocon said to Max at the weighing scale but he certainly didn’t deescalate it. Of course Max was in the wrong but a race ban come on man!

    If you compare Max to violence of Jos in the past again i will write a complaint because that is so nasty and mean spirited .. i have had a father who was violent to me and my mother and I AM I NO WAY LIKE MY FATHER OK KEITH????

    1. Calm down dear.

      1. it is personal for me but i am already calm sweetheart:)

        1. If you are Max, I will never stop laughing!

    2. “If you compare Max to violence of Jos in the past again i will write a complaint”

      You already did that, right here!

    3. @arnoudvanhouwelingen You’re arguing the semantics of the difference between a punch and a push. Pair it back a bit and, either way, Max physically touched Esteban in a fit of rage, which is what the FIA charged him with.

    4. Max has never been violence in the past . i double dare you to give me one instance that Max punched someone in his entire life!!

      Max himself told Sky Italia that he punched a driver who is currently in F1 sooo ….

      Also a punch is totally different than a push .. a punch is way more severe than a little push so a race ban would be ridiculous

      1) It wasn’t a little push he shoved him 3 times
      2) One of those shoves pushed Ocon off of the weighing platform. If he had lost his balance he could have easily taken a head injury. There should be zero tolerance on something like this.

      Max was in the wrong


    5. Max is already replicating his father’s behavior. Time will tell who on this panel is right and who is wrong

    6. If you compare Max to violence of Jos in the past again i will write a complaint because that is so nasty and mean spirited

      To whom will you complain, pray tell.

  14. Dutchguy (@justarandomdutchguy)
    12th November 2018, 13:06

    saying he needs more punishment is a vaild opinion but this article is a disgrace. Any point is lost in the attacks on Jos Verstappen

    1. Come on, this is hardly an attack on Jos. He’s merely pointing the facts about the main figure Max has had during his upbringing.

      People say that everyone is his own man, but that’s not true at all. We’re in fact a combination of every people we encounter along the way, some good and some bad so it’s up to us to pick the best of each one.

      In the case of Max his dad has been by far the main influence all his life, while we get stories from other drivers like Perez who had to move to Europe age 15 by himself, or Ocon and Vandoorne who specifically didn’t want their dads to be their managers. This would make them have a much different view of life and react differently to certain situations than someone who has always had the same person to look up to.

      1. What do you know of the upbringing of Ocon, why didn’t Ocon want him to be his manager, Did Ocon’s father touch little boys. Is this the way we go and write articles about f1 drivers, a incident on of off track, lets bring the fathers into the story. Disgraceful

        1. Ah, you see, that’s not a fact. I know it’s difficult in the current climate to understand why you just can’t make something up and it be treated the same as a known fact, but you can’t.

  15. Ok, this is it.

    Bringing in Jos’s ‘reputation’ to somehow prove that Verstappen has an anger-issue, does it.
    I will never visit this site again.

    I have almost never posted, but visited several times a week. Sometimes for the articles, often for the buildup to or the aftermath after a race, sometimes just to smile about the comment-wars, especially KRXX going off about oranges amused me a lot.

    However, this is tabloid-stuff. Goodluck with it if it makes you feel better than the Verstappens.

    1. I will never visit this site again

      Awesome bye

  16. The article reflects my own opinion, but I would not have involved Verstappen’s father in this. The sins of the father should not be passed onto the son. Putting an anger issues correlation between the 2 is far fetched. It’s bad enough already Helmut Marko mentioned it.

    For the record, I do believe Verstappen acted disgraceful in the postrace. I do think, depending on what the public service will entail, the penalty will be useful. Let him 2 days have to listen to victims of violence. He’ll be putting things much more in perspective.

    1. I would not have involved Verstappen’s father in this. The sins of the father should not be passed onto the son.

      Spot on @turbof1.
      Opinion whatever you like about Max’ actions and deserved penalty, but do it based on his actions only @keithcollantine.

    2. +1

      As much as I abhor Jos’ violent tendencies, this article could do without the arm chair psych analysis of Verstappen family and the attempt to tie Jos’ personality to Max’s shoving of Ocon.

  17. Haha, yes, race ban for showing passion, character and a slice of reality.

    No thanks. He’ll apologise in time no doubt but banning him for not being fully professional and corporate in those circumstances would be ridiculous.

    1. @joshgeake I’m passionate about my job but if I ever did that to one of my colleagues I would be fired on the spot and so would most people. F1 drivers seem to exist in this little bubble where reasonable standards of conduct apparently don’t apply to them because they are ‘special’.

      1. well stay away from icehockey then..

        1. petebaldwin (@)
          12th November 2018, 13:55

          And rugby. And football. And basketball. And well…. kind of every sport that involves young men and adrenaline… It would be easier to list sports where a push would equal a ban rather than creating a huge list of sports where no-one would care!

          1. @petebaldwin I’m a big rugby fan and used to play regularly. For sure, things happen on the pitch. You also see at the professional level that players who initiate violence on the pitch are often sent off for the rest of the match, and may receive match bans for more serious violations. Knowing people who are involved in rugby on a county level, I know that the application is a little mixed but generally speaking there are serious consequences potentially.

            All this is sort of inconsequential though. There is a difference between an immediate reaction to something which has happened during the match, and actively seeking out a confrontation afterwards. This wasn’t something that happened in the heat of competition. How long exactly do you allow for red mist?

          2. I also think that especially Rugby has been doing its best to keep violence away, however hard that might be in a sport that is very physical.

            This wasn’t something that happened in the heat of competition. How long exactly do you allow for red mist?

            that is a good question there @mazdachris.
            Vettel reacted to his anger immediately by barging into the side of Hamilton’s car in Baku last year. Is that easier to forgive (remember he got less of a punishment for that than even Ocon for making his point to get past here) than what Max did – after giving Ocon the finger, he first focussed on the more important thing – getting the car to the finish, having a shot at retaking the lead – so he never got to getting to grips with the incident. Then again, he also did not use his car as a weapon.
            He drove into the pits, clearly still angry (see his radio message), got out of his car straight in to the weigh bridge (makes sense, not wanting to talk with Di Resta right away, while still angry). So far all of it looks professional up to there.
            But then he sees Ocon in there, seems to make a snide comment. Ocon says something back (that clearly was not apologetic) and Max steps towards Esteban to push him. Ocon first tries to do something but to his credit then backs out and just keeps passive, Max pushes again, Ocon moves back when pushed (staying passive, good way to handle this).
            The FIA official steps in. Max walks away. Ocon seems to say something snide, walks towards Max while doing so. The FIA Official stops him going further, while Max pushes/shoves him back and walks out. Ocon says something again, the FIA Official pushes him back. Max turns around points at him and says something back before walking out (towards the pre podium interview with DiResta).

            I get what you are saying about reacting immediately vs. waiting and “getting revenge later”. But compare that back to the Vettel thing. Who acted (mostly) the professional here? To me MAx largely kept his cool out on track, concentrated on the job at hand. Even in the weighbridge, apart from where he gets aggressive with Ocon and starts the pusing, he did not go further when the officials stepped in.

            To me, this doesn’t deserve anything even close to a race ban. Yes, community service. I would have been fine with a reprimand or even a couple of penalty points (let’s Max sweat it out at 10 or 11 points for a while).

            To me the thing that will impact Max more than any penalty given, and hopefully will make him learn, is what the wisend up 5 times champion rightly remarked after the race. “You had more to lose”. Because that is the bigger picture. After Monaco Max showed us he is learning. This was another one he should learn from.

            As for Ocon, I don’t quite share Keith’s praise. Sure, in the critical moment he does stay passive (the only right approach imo) but before that first Push, he fights back, and once the Officials get involved he gets into it as well, provoking that last push when he walks after Verstappen calling him something.

      2. This is SPORT for goodness sake, not a project plan for a new engineering client. If it all goes this way we won’t have any entertainment left.

        1. If you don’t mind a bit of violence then why not turn to boxing? It has no place in motorsport.

          1. How many times has f1 replayed the video of piquet punching whomever?

            Do you really think f1 shares the European love fest?

            Max acted like a child, which he is. But you guys won’t be happy til he’s convicted of attempted murder! Bbbbbbbut Ocon could’ve fallen and hit his h-h-head!

            I’m very glad f1 is American owned now. You guys are embarrassing.

        2. Physical violence is not the norm in F1. Those who have resorted to it have been punished, where the hell have all you hooligans come from?

    2. Dutchguy (@justarandomdutchguy)
      12th November 2018, 13:54

      Well he did cross the line. He should not have done it, but I think the given appropriate and should give him some time to think.

    3. @joshgeake Passion is about willingness to suffer for something one enjoys, not willingness to inflict it.

      Character can be shown in many things, and Ocon showed good (relative if not absolute) character in limiting his responses to Max’s poor conduct.

      Reality is that hitting a competitor is a banworthy offence in most European-rooted series below F1, and it is largely due to historical leniency that Max wasn’t banned here. (I’m not convinced a ban would have been the fairest thing to do here, but it does set F1 at odds with the rest of the motorsport world in terms of how it handles this sort of thing). Why? Because resorting to violence that is not part of the sport in question undermines the point of sport, which is to resolve competitive disputes either without, or with limited and codified violence, depending on whether it is a non-contact or contact sport. Recall that motorsport is defined as a non-contact sport…

  18. You are correct KC.
    And to mention his father’s past is OK in my book as it shows why Max acts as he does – whether it’s from Jos’ example or genetics.
    The FIAs “penalty is a joke – sitting him the next race would have made him think twice before acting that way again. This only reinforces that what he did was at least partially justified.
    I think his peers agree with you and are glad someone gave him a dose of his own medicine.

    1. Max has never been physically violent in the past so Randy no it doesn’t make sense to compare him to his father! it is just sickening wat Keith said … that whole gene stuff and that violence is heredite from father to son is something Nazis would say!!

      1. @arnoudvanhouwelingen It was @hahostolze who raised the genetic stuff. To me it’s completely clear that Keith’s talking about nurture not (genetic) nature.

      2. @arnoudvanhouwelingen

        Max has never been physically violent in the past so Randy no it doesn’t make sense to compare him to his father!

        When @keithcollantine wrote this article, *it* was in the past. There’s a body of evidence building about Max’s attitude and, at the moment, it’s all pointing in one direction.

        Nobody wants a bunch of sanitised identikit drivers, but drivers using their cars and/or bodies as weapons during red mist moments should not be encouraged or entertained.

        1. so you want a new penalty for Ocon who used his car as a weapon?

          1. so you want a new penalty for Ocon who used his car as a weapon?

            When did he do that exactly?

  19. @arnoudvanhouwelingen

    I need to ask if Keith has actually attended Kart races where F1 drivers actually learnt their trade and seen the amount of agression between parents, it’s more common that people realise. As is aggressive on-track behaviour which many Kart clubs fail to nip in the bud.

    Max got to F1 on merit in a sport not short on flare ups in the lower Formulas.

    1. @bigjoe That would rather depend on which kart races were attended – there are series that keep things from boiling over just fine, thank you very much.

  20. Cannot judge Max based on what his father may or may not have did, can only judge Max on his own actions. To me it seemed more like bullying than fighting, Ocon seems quite a passive/reserved person, Max knew he wouldnt retaliate so felt free to harass him. Max should have recieved a stronger penalty to set the example that this behaviour is wrong, but a race ban is too much.

    1. Rather it would have been better compare how the RBT Team principal and Marko are adding fuel to Max’s arrogance and aggression(just look at Horner’s comment after the race). Its not just Max but most of the RBR drivers seem to fall into same category of arrogance.

  21. Low level journalism…constantly trying to stir a fire. Keith, did your father work for The Sun? That would explain this article. If popularity of F1 is going to go up, its thanks to racers like Max on and off track!

  22. Shameless article guys

  23. What a ridiculous statement Keith. Do you ever watch any other sports? In other sports you see bust ups between players all the time. Has a football player ever had to do community service for shoving another player? Let alone a match ban. I’m not saying what Verstappen did was ok, but lets not exaggerate.

    Also, writing about Jos Verstappen professional and private life is low.

    1. @tourneur

      Has a football player ever had to do community service for shoving another player? Let alone a match ban.

      On planet Earth, shoving another football player 3 times would get you a definite red card and a 2 to 3 match ban. Though not community service probably.

      1. Mate, shoving in football is handbags. Thats why some players will fall over theatrically, because a shove is nothing out of the ordinary.

        1. @tourneur Shoving in football once in an incident is handbags. (Even that isn’t accepted at lower levels of the game). Shoving multiple times in the same incident… …not so much.

      2. Look at the FIA statement. They accepted ‘words were said’ and Max was ‘triggered’
        Not something we want to encourage, but hardly an unnatural reaction.

        I imagine Red Bull mechanics were livid and also swearing and making threatening remarks about Ocon. Quite natural. I bet Max calms down before many of his team do.

        “Max Verstappen entered the FIA Weigh Bridge Garage, proceded directly to Driver Esteban Ocon and following a few words, started an altercation, pushing or hitting Ocon forcefully several times in the chest,” the bulletin reads.

        “The Stewards held a hearing, in which both drivers acted appropriately and cooperated with the Stewards. The Stewards understood from Max Verstappen that he was extremely upset by the incident on track during the race and accepted his explanation that it was not his original intent to strike Ocon, but that he was ‘triggered’ and caused him to lose his temper.

        1. @bigjoe My point was that football has fairly well defined lines for behaviour and off the ball incidents (roughly equivalent to this one) with players shoving leads to yellow or red cards – Verstappen’s insistence would have been a definite red card. And a red card entails a 2 match ban minimum, depending on the severity. So @tourneur was just simply wrong about that.

          Back to Formula 1, it’s clear that FIA indulges some drivers’ behaviour while getting heavy on others. It’s inconsistent. In a professional sport, Verstappen receiving a ‘match ban’ would be a no-brainer, automatic. Formula 1 wants to be seen as professional but preserve a kind of amateur ethos too, some of its behaviour unregulated or subject to subjective rulings. For me it just produces a huge amount of inconsistency at every level.

          1. sorry didnt mean to reply to you.

            Football does indeed have a ‘violent conduct rule’ that is also inconsistant. Verstappen could have easily got away with pushes in football.
            Robert Firmino was shoved into the advertising hordings after the ball was out of play causing a fracus, nothing was done.

          2. Robert Firmino was shoved into the advertising hordings after the ball was out of play causing a fracus, nothing was done.

            True, I recall that one. Doesn’t negate the principle though.

        2. They were also quite specific that the “words said” were said by Verstappen, and that he had claimed to be “triggered” but nothing he said in that claim means “by Ocon”

      3. David you have to agree that you cannot compare the action of Mazepin with that of Max .. it is just ludicrous .. Mazepin punched Illiott in the face twice which resulted in a black eye and a broken jaw .. Max his push resulted in a smurky smile of Ocon .. you can’t justify a race ban by comparing those two incidents .. it is insane!

        1. @arnoudvanhouwelingen It’s not quite my point. To be honest I don’t think Formula 1 has much ethical compass in general, it’s more a case of what you can get away with (typical to the wealthy profile of most of those involved). Just the other day there was a former driver trying to justify Renault’s actions at Singapore 2008! So if asking a driver to deliberately crashing a car to win a race for his team mate is OK, I doubt they find much issue with Verstappen being a lout. Is that what FIA should be practicing, though? Definitely not. They should have some clear guidelines on behaviour that’s transmitted globally. Just as Vettel should have been banned for Baku last year, the same would be reasonable for MV this year. What’s the big deal? I watch football and love the fact players are passionate enough to get into scraps some times. But do I expect them not to get red carded and match banned? No! There’s a penalty for that behaviour. Why make Formula 1 any different? Maybe the fact that it’s not a contact sport – well, beyond cars colliding – that places this kind of situation in a bit of a limbo. Also the fact that it’s still fairly dangerous and so even a punch or two might seem nothing much by comparison. Except as Keith pointed out, these displays of anger can encourage others, including road rage, which very definitely kills (and why Vettel should have been race banned in my view).

    2. @tourneur

      I think Keith is guilty here of the the continual sanitization of F1 by the fans. It has slowly become a sport for snowflakes with the hyper criticism of the drivers. Right down to having non native English speaking drivers ripped apart for what they say to the ever probing media.

  24. What Max did was wrong, how we got to this point is irrelevant. Max is entirely responsible for his own actions and my view of him is now marred.

  25. I lost all respect for this website after reading this article.

  26. Booooorring! In other news Nelson Piquet has been erased from the annals of history for punching Eliseo Salazar.

  27. I personally witnessed a change for the worse in the Karting scene with Michael Schumacher’s behaviour in F1 filtering back down to the Kart circuit.
    The FIA should have done more each time he tried (and suceeded) to win championships by ramming into a competitor. The FIA gave him 1 slap on the wrist the second time he did it. Also seeing him on TV attempting to attack Coutlhard should have received a similar warning to what Max has just got.
    The fans still worshipped Schumacher though. Instead making Alonso the future fall guy because his team mate was asked to crash slowly into some tires for gods sake.

    1. @bigjoe Schumacher never actually laid hands on Coulthard though (largely thanks to various mechanics and team members admittedly). There is a difference.

      1. No but he used his car like a battering ram and was a bully on the track. For his whole career. That is what I’m sure trickled down to the young karters.

  28. I’m ok with the article. It’s clearly a personal comment – it is categorized as a comment too. It expresses the opinion of the editor, which may or may not be shared. Max is already polarizing, yesterday’s facts are even more polarizing.

    Citing Jos’ behavior gives context about the environment where Max grew up. It’s not low, in a way it even absolves him a bit, IMHO.

    Max is young, it was “just” a push etc, etc. But people: these drivers are watched by the entire World, they are a reference for the youngster, they are well-payed professionists. You just can’t do that. It’s not the 70s. Ocon was clearly at fault, but that was part of the on-track game (and now it looks like Verstappen knows what it means to be on the other side of the barricade). Verstappen rammed his share of drivers, but I can’t remember those drivers react as he did. Moreover, you’ll never hear Toto or Maurizio comment like Horner did.

    What Max did was far worse than Esteban’s error.

    1. Dutchguy (@justarandomdutchguy)
      12th November 2018, 13:36

      Max was in the wrong in the weighing room incident, but if I’d have to punish anymore harder, it’s Horner. He’s not just defending it, he seems to cheer it on. Even if Verstappen was raised to be violent – which I doubt – this looks like Horner is willing to create a working enviroment in which it is not just accepted, but promoted

    2. Mazepin punched Illott in the face twice .. Illiott had a black eye and a swollen jaw .. that Keith compares those two incidents and think they are equal to justify a race ban is a total joke!!

      1. @arnoudvanhouwelingen yes yes so you keep saying, Keith doesn’t compare the two incidents or use them to justify anything, he uses them as examples of previous violence in the sport and how the guilty were treated.

  29. I am completely convinced that Max has anger issues and judging by the fact that he never admits wrongdoing he must also think hes better then anybody else.
    If the FIA respected the sport they would keep his toxic behaviour and attitude in check. But I’m afraid they’re not going to do anything unless Hamilton or Vettel speak up.
    His team’s support is also extremely disappointing. Christian Horner should retract his comment.
    Verstappen is one of fastest drivers at the moment, but does the sport need his horrible attitude? There’s no shortage of fast drivers. I can’t wait to start comparing him to Lecrerc who has portrayed model behaviour so far.

    1. you are totally wrong .. for instance Hungary with Ricciardo or China with Vettel he said right after the race that he was wrong and made a mistake! What toxic behaviour .. Max has never been physically violent in the past and yes he is passionate and can be angry right after the race when adrenaline is pumping but he is getting relaxed really fast after that .. He is nothing like his father!

  30. It was handbags at worse. I see plenty of pushing and shoving when tempers flair in football and this really wasn’t much different (except for the fact Ocon didn’t throw himself to the ground to make it look worse than it was).

    I’m far from Verstappens biggest fan but saying ‘I’m going to hurt someone’ when he’s annoyed is far different to him actually doing it. Don’t get me wrong, he has shown he has the attitude of an entitled bully but I don’t think he should be punished for saying stupid things in the heat of the moment. Maybe Max does have violent tendencies but for all the scummy things his father has done, Max has nothing to do with them and it’s a bit unfair to try and link his tantrums to his father’s criminal actions.

    I think we have to remember Max is a human being who has emotions and works in constant high pressure environment where for 20 weeks a year, he’s constantly put under a spotlight. Alonso once pushed a photographer for invading his privacy and and Ricciardo recently punched a hole in the wall due to his mechanical failures and neither of them were ever scrutinised to this degree and neither should Max.

  31. ….. kinda of with Keith on this… Lewis, for example, was punted by Kimi I believe in Silverstone…. clearly within a shot of winning his home GP… more than enough reason to resort to violence…. Lewis made a “comment” about tactics and was criticized for those comments… no pushing and shoving. I am sure many on this forum can recall on-track incidents where a persons race was lost because of another driver and said driver did not go “looking for a fight to settle the score”. Truth is kids idolize these drivers and want to “be like them” when they grow up or just be like them period. Max is suppose to be an example… I think he let himself and his fans down yesterday by not taking the high road. And I feel the FIA is treating him like Seb where they have been pretty weak on handing down “authentic” and justifiable sanctions for awful behavior (Baku 2017). I see a pattern… not sure if anyone else can see it. Thanks for the discussion as always Keith and Co. Keep up the great work and content for us (ALL) racing fans.

  32. Johan Tolemans
    12th November 2018, 13:30

    I would have left the father out of it. Rather it seems more valid point to look at the supporters. If they start behaving at the track like they do on internet forums, we can expect some football-esque situations. Not a good evolution, one Liberty should be afraid of like no other.

  33. @carbon_fibre

    he must also think hes better then anybody else.

    The problem is he is better than everyone else! and is frustratingly being asked to prove it in slower equipment. The times he has made mistakes is when he has had sniffs of wins and he’s been impatient.

    1. The problem is he is better than everyone else

      This season has proved he is really not, not even close. Crashing into Ocon in Brazil was complete amateur hour from Max.

  34. I wonder if those defending Verstappen will do so when his escalating lack of restraint on and off the track ends in something more serious than a shoving and pushing incident.

    Over the last two years the aggression has been less and less controlled and when coupled with his own perception that “ I am a winner” and all the others are not, there is a potential for tragedy for someone.

    Will it be from aggressive overtaking, defending? Volatility after the race when another competitor has not respected his “ winner” status?

    1. to compare Max push with Mazepin is a total joke though!! Mazepin punched Illiott in the face twice and Illiott had a black eye and a broken jaw .. so to justify a race ban because of that comparison is just laughable!

  35. Kieth are you kidding? A one race ban? I love your site and 99% of your articles but this one is pure bias bad journalism.

    1. Kieth is firmly biased to love Max’s driving, as you would know if you ever spend time in the livestreams

      1. Dutchguy (@justarandomdutchguy)
        12th November 2018, 18:59

        doesn’t mean he loves the rest of the guy tho. I don’t either. He’s great on thet track, but doesn’t strike me as someone I’d like to meet.

        1. I find myself agreeing with almost everything you write on this site!

  36. Makes you wonder if his hard driving style is passion or anger based.

    I agree the RIC quote from Mexico was odd, instead of being happy for his teammate who had a miserable season he is angry at him.

    My 2 cents
    Champions & top drivers learn when to push and when to let someone go. I doubt HAM, VET, KIMI, RIC or Bottas would have fought for that corner with Ocon. They would have been annoyed and passed him in a safer place.

    Max drivers hard and forces a lot of passes. It is exciting to watch. In this case 2 seconds out caution would have changed his entire day. Until that sinks in, greatness will always be out of reach.

    1. Gerrit de Wilde
      13th November 2018, 9:19

      i doubt Ocon would have fought for that corner with HAM, VET, KIMI, RIC or Bottas

  37. How can you guys have a problem with the mentioning of Jos? He’s clearly a mentor for Max, delivering guidance, etc.
    With all the comments Max has delivered, regarding headbutting, etc, it paints another picture.

    In the heat of the moment yesterday, I was furious at Ocon (though I’m a fan of him). But after reviewing the footage today, I have a hard time understanding how Ocon could get such a harsh penalty. Not that it really matters, compared to the topic here, but I really wish Max will be able to rethink the whole thing, when he’s cooled off. All those comments really says it all. Reminds me of teens havng to play rough. Last to get laid, first to punch.

    Have to admit I think Max is a brilliant racer. Definitely one of the biggest talents of our time.

  38. This article is a disgrace. You cannot, and will not attack Max Verstappen on incidents not his responsability nor his fault, and you will not play to his character like that.

    Not only is this article immoral, it is illegal. You can expect to get sued.

    The subject here is how a Mercedes driver running at position 16 and 70 seconds behind, changed the result of the race making another Mercedes driver win it. Max pushed Ocon around a bit. That is typically punished with a yellow or red card in football, if that. But the author seems to foresee world war three here – that is not only immoral and illegal, but hilarious.

    Good luck with your big-boob and financial scam adverts.

    1. Not only is this article immoral, it is illegal. You can expect to get sued.

      Lol – child, do go and learn the law before speaking

      Good luck with your big-boob and financial scam adverts.

      Oh thank god, I won’t miss you!

      1. Which law do you both mean… Laster is still punishable in the Netherlands so a tabloid like the Sun would be sued a lot maybe that why they keep low on Dutch things.

        1. Why would Keith be subject to Dutch law?

        2. You can’t just pick and choose which legal system you want to charge someone under, jurisdiction is an important concept.

          1. @sleepywill the result of this biassed article is polarization. Click bait for add income. Disgusted by it. I can imagine the anger this causes. So all in all a very bad move by Keith. Polarizing your viewers seldom leads to insight.

  39. I won’t comment on Max, as I am anything but a fan of his. I’m not familiar with this author either, as I have only recently followed UK coverage of F1. I have, however, followed F1 in US publications since the 60’s, and raced (albeit at very low levels) in those days as well. Live F1 coverage in the US is now by SKY, giving new insight and perspective, but one aspect remains the same….Those who COMPETE see things differently than those who COMMENT.

  40. I’m sorry. How low can you sink if articles like this now appears on racefans. This is beyond Sun quality. Tabloid stuff. Sorry Keith. You should be ashamed of yourself. My admiration of your work and this website has dropped to zero.

    1. +1 Totally agree.
      My admiration dropped during this season very rapidly and has now gone completely. Changing the name of the site was maybe a sign that things where shifting here. It’s all about the clicks now and Keith is willing to go lower then low for that. Shame on you.

      1. @keithcollantine still it’s a pity one of the most objective and fan driven sites to see it degenerates like this.
        I really liked f1fanatics.. but racefans seem to have lost itself.

        It started with clickbait headlines and now even the sun would be ashamed.
        And, yes there are people who really like these kind of “journalism”, but is it the kind of fans you like?

  41. Come on Kiethy, talk about over dramatising the situation.. You and your P.C. madness mates that agree with you here obviously haven’t felt what is like to compete and feel the heat of the moment full of adrenaline. You don’t know what your missing. Stick to writing things you do know about. A little argy-bargy goes on in a lot of sports that don’t compete at over 300 kph and besides Ocon didn’t feel threatened as he followed Max with that smug smile he carried all the way through this tiny altercation.

    Oh boy a couple of pushes on the shoulder and your ready to through the book. Comical.

    1. @ming-mong
      People are pathetically sensitive today.

      My god, have people never competed in sports. Men and I’m sure women sometimes get mad/frustrated and push their opponents. Why does Keith have his panties in a knot.

  42. Yeah well there is a short explanation for the fact Max didn’t get, and in my opinion also didn’t deserve, a race-ban;

    F1 needs Max more than Max needs F1.

  43. Max was a gentleman by only pushing gentle. If senna would be still alive he would of kicked Ocon his ass. Ask Irvine. . Ocon f-up big time. Disgraceful drive. Max a top athlete but above that, he is human. Humans have emotions. Looks like everybody thinks that the PR world is the real world. Grow up. It’s not. The real world is emotions and this, what Max did, makes him human. Anybody saying something else is a liar. Ocon DQ would of been a better and only correct message from the FIA. Question Max is like saying I have no idea about F1 and sport in general

    1. Very true. I’ve been watching since 1988 and its only happened a couple of times so its not like we have a problem in F1. I bet some people will sensationalizing this event and come up with the notion that children around the world will now follow Max and act out of violence whilst there own children are living on youtube from the age of two. Everyone was complaining that drivers are like PR droids that cant show any real emotion or answer questions with true feelings. It has lightened in the last couple of years however harping on about this will only move us back towards clinical madness.

      btw I am no MV fanboy…

    2. So basically you are taking a disgraceful example (Senna punching Irvine while Irvine did nothing wrong), compare it to Verstappen’s case and saying “see? It could have been worse”?

      I agree humans have emotions. Humans also have a brain to control those emotions. Him being angry and venting verbally on the camera was all ok and dandy. Him actively seeking out Ocon and shoving him 3 times, knowing it will be all over social media and be viewed by youngsters, that’s what the issue is. These actions have consequences.

      We don’t have to condone physical agression. Verstappen should be better than that, should be able to show constraint.

      1. your right.. he should have. And he received a Fia public service penalty for that.
        But lets be real.. it’s not if he hurt someone or even tried to hurt someone. He did not used his car as a weapon (we know someone who did)
        This incident totally put his great commanding drive with excellent overtaking on merrit in the shades..

        1. What would have happened if Ocon retaliated in kind? Think it would have just ended up as a shoving match? I’m with Keith. Ocon showed great maturity when being provoked by a lose cannon who was clearly itching for a fight.

  44. KEITH .. How can you compare the punch of Mazepin with the push of Max ….Mazepin punched Illiot in the face twice … Illiott had a black eye and he has a swollen jaw .. how on earth could you compare that with a little punch that Max gave Ocon to justify a race ban!!!!!!!

  45. Wow. He just pushed someone who deserved a punch on his stupid smile. So it was actually a very mature reaction from Max.

  46. Ocon shouldn’t have attacked so hard and then should have felt some remorse.

    Max should have watched him a bit more before cutting over on him.

    Both are young and still immature.

    The shoving was pretty minuscule overall all. No surprise and no big deal.

    Get over it and move on.

  47. I respect the opinion piece, and I also agree that if sending a message about such behaviour was a priority for the FIA, they must have handed out a stronger penalty like the disqualification mentioned.

    This is an area where the FIA have to make up their mind – are they OK to allow transgressions like Vettel’s wheel banging/foul-mouthed tirade and Max’s shoving to be let off with a regular warning and a soft-touch punishment, or do they want to set the standard by penalizing drivers? If it’s the latter, it has to be done in a multi-pronged manner – community service like this, plus a disqualification of the driver from the WDC/WCC for that race, and a fine, maybe stripping sponsor livery from the driver’s car for a race. That will ensure that at least one of the penalties hurts a driver & team (e.g. a fine would hurt someone in the karting series more, stripping points will hurt an F1 challenger). And the FIA then have to enforce this across all of their series, top down.

    In this case, the FIA should also turn a deaf ear to any pleas about “the show” being affected from Liberty/FE/etc. Yes, comparisons are made that football and ice hockey have violence/boorish behaviour as part of the sport, and FIA have to decide if motorsport wants to be one of those sports, or not.

    I would also agree with a part of @justarandomdutchguy ‘s comment – that Horner should have been instead pulled up as well, as a team principal. If a senior is to be blamed, it has to be the professional senior (i.e. the TP), not the personal senior (i.e. Jos). Make the TP accountable (not responsible) for the behaviour of their staff.

    That said, I’m not sure what Jos’s history has to do with the events at hand (and Jos does not seem a nice person, tbh). They might have been precipitating factors in Max’s behaviour, but should not be considered at all when awarding a penalty. Be it a hothead like Max or a nice guy like Kimi, if they throw a punch it should be penalized equally. Nor should Max’s past comments be taken into account (headbutting, punching someone for missing pole), unless those were converted into actions.

    I’m also surprised at the praise being accorded to Ocon for his restraint. To me it was quite obvious that Ocon (cleverly) played the nice guy, and goaded Verstappen further on. What Ocon did is not wrong at all, but to praise it as restraint seems to be giving him more credit than is due.

    1. Alongside the edit button, we also need a preview button – I didn’t realize my comment was so long :-(

      1. But long enough to put things in perspective. Good work there!

  48. I completely agree.. I wrote this on the youtube comments on the video of accident, as I didn’t watch the race live:
    im not a fan of either driver, but what I know is that Ocon was trying to unlap himself, while all Verstappen had to do was maintain his advantage at front, you can see from Verstappen’s onboard into turn 1, Ocon is braking ahead of him, and basically side by side with him… at that moment, any normal driver not looking for an accident would let this backmarker through, especially with victory in site…. instead Verstappen cuts Ocon at the next apex… why???????????? Verstappen’s comment post race in this video makes him look terrible, Ocon went for the only place he could overtake to unlap, and Verstappen knew it was coming… and Verstappen decided to defend for dear earth…. why??????

    The pushing after was so immature and outright pathetic.

    1. Max was ahead into turn one and two

      1. @rvg013

        Max was ahead into turn one and two

        That’s not the point though is it? The point is why did he fight Ocon at all? He should have just let the faster car go and have carried on cruising around to victory.

        But of course, this is Max ‘Thou Shalt Not Pass’ Verstappen.

        1. @asanator driving in clean air is a big advantage for the temps and the tires. Why should the leader sacrifices this advantage to a slightly faster lapped car. The same car that probably some corners later will get blue flags to let the leader by. Costing precious seconds…
          Ver had the faster car but was just easy on his tires but able to keep Ocon behind without any problems. He was in front of Ocon in both corners
          It was Ocon who choose to fight for position, something he was not allowed to do! ( and got a penalty for)

    2. im not a fan of either driver,

      nope.. we all know who your favorite driver is ;)
      The facts of the collision are on several other topics..the stewards agreed it was Ocons fault.

  49. All I can see is that provoking smile on Ocon’s face and I can only imagine that his words were complementing his facial expression. After what he did I wouldn’t have expected that. Of course that Verstappen acted like a semi-mad man, no excuses there, he still acts like a child that he (almost) is. Although I can appreciate that more than a stale, politically correct doll of an average F1 driver. No, I don’t want them to smile all the time, with provided recycled statements, being happy with whatever is going on, because F1 is such a perfect world where everybody wins and everybody is happy. I’d want them to be men, reasonable men, but men. Verstappen is a child that tries to act like a man (or maybe vice versa), but it’s easier for me to swallow that than Ocon, who equally never admits his mistakes, but he surely does provide us with dumber explanations. I’m not sure that Senna, Schumacher or Vettel would give them any easier time. Hamilton would, but only because he prefers his public image over anything else. He surely does fight back in his own ways.

    1. Second that Dex

    2. Agreed , Hamilton is a good actor. Always have been.

  50. The whole year Keith is writing articles for his British / Hamilton supporters, but this article is really a new low.
    Yes, Max is raised in a “lower class” family where problems more often are solved with action/violence then with words and arguments. But as far as I know this kind of background is quite common in several sports. Not only boxing or football, but also auto / motor racing. But there was no fight yesterday, nobody was hearth. I didn’t like what I was seeing and my first thoughts were: why did Red Bull not send some chaperones with him to avoid this situation. They know who he is and you could predict this would happen.
    But what made your article really beyond any reality was that you praised Ocon for his restraint. You know as I do that these two have a history. You also noticed that he ruined Verstappens victory and was blamed for that by the stewards. But no apology from him or his team. And then when Verstappen came for him after the race he was obvious provoking Verstappen with words and with attitude. Not a single moment he was considering to say sorry, his eyes on the picture above this article say it all.

    1. Verstappen more than you think, these guys are looked up to by young kids, maybe now several thousand will think Max is great for being a Thug, and now they will think that is cool and ok. Also why should Ocon apologies, its Max that needs to apologise for the ontrack fight and the offtrack fight.

      1. Not Verstappen but Ocon was blamed and punished by the stewards for the accident and almost every commentator, former world champion or other expert put at least 80% of the blame on Ocon. But Keith and you turn it around because your Hamilton made that comment that he would have done it otherwise?
        And being an example for several thousands youngsters watching this? No they will know this is not okay although they and millions around the world will understand where this action of Verstappen came from.
        But if you are so concerned about the youngsters: do you think Hamilton is the the example for young people to follow? I really hope not.

        1. What bad example has Hamilton set?

          1. Pff…Lewis is a fake person. Good actor, ready for Hollywood.
            The crowd is amazing here sentence is getting old. I like people showing real emotion. Lewis isnta sainthe only plays the acthe is one.

          2. Ok Kevin, lets assume any of that is true – he’s a terrible person, but is a fantastic actor because he hides it really well – no-one can tell he’s a terrible person (except you with you magical insight) so he’s actually setting a good example – even better for those of you with the magical insight, because you know how awful he is, yet he resists that and doesn’t let children see him being terrible.

            Your own argument, if it were true, proves he is a good example.

      2. Dude, it’s the internet – you’re literally talking to those children who are going to copy – of course they are trying to stick up for him, as you say, they (because they are children) think it was cool.

        1. And those children now know that if you have a violent father its normal to hurt someone if you are mad.
          At least that’s what this article wanted to prove.

          1. It’s not what the article wanted to prove, no – but you do bring up a good point, there is a definite correlation between violent parents and violent children. Food for thought. Thanks.

  51. Also Jos Verstappen was dirty for not accepting blame for running into Montoya in 2001 at this same track. maybe this race is Karma to the Verstappen family.

    1. There is a big difference.. Verstappen gave room to let Montoya pass but braked to late, or Montoya early. We “know” from telemetry that the Williams was not strong on the brakes that year. Not fighting for position.
      It was a race leader involved then, that part is true.

  52. I don’t believe focusing on this incident is useful. At the end of the day, he just pushed in the chest a couple of times. Comments on Max’s character, statements and behaviour are more meaningful. Max was looking for a fight long after their crash happened. It didn’t happen ‘in the heat of the moment’. This vindictive behavior is unacceptable to me.

  53. HansieSlim (@)
    12th November 2018, 13:58

    I think Keith makes a valid and reasonable argument.
    Formula 1 drivers are supposed to be professionals and many young people, especially boys, look up to them as role models.
    To date, Max has clearly indicated that he has no respect for others and that it is all about him. He has been acting like a petulant child and with a complete disregard for his competitors and their safety despite the fact that he has been in formula 1 for years now. His age is no longer an excuse, if you want to participate in the pinnacle of motorsport then you have to act like a professional.
    There is also a profound difference between acting in anger immediately following an incident and assaulting someone else with premeditated intent which is exactly what Max did.
    In my view, Max should be heavily penalized in an attempt to teach him to control his emotions and to avoid him also becoming a criminal and a woman beater like his father.
    He has immense talent but always allowing him to get away with his selfish and short sighted behavior will only detract from his talent and prevent him from reaching his full potential. If you like him, I cannot see how you will disagree with this.

    1. and to avoid him also becoming a criminal and a woman beater like his father.

      that kind of reaction is caused by this “article” Way to go Keith!

      1. Well, his father is that.

      2. HansieSlim (@)
        12th November 2018, 20:24

        Strange how you are unable to put your own arguments forward and only comment on other peoples views…..

        It is a shame that statistically there is a very strong correlation between a child being raised by an aggressive person and that child following suit when he/she grow up…..

        1. @hansieslim.
          So every child with a aggressive father is doomed..
          And if you do not like critics maybe a forum is not your playground.

  54. Ocon should be banned for a very long time. Every racer in winning position can be pushed of the track by Mr Ocon in the future . If you complain you get a stupid laugh. F1 has now set a new set of rules. Bust the leader even if you are 1 or 2 laps behind half of the race and get away with it.

    1. With a little luck you even get a Mercedes contract!

    2. @pietkoster He didn’t get away with it – he was issued a 10-second Stop & Go, which is one of the harshest fines the stewards can issue.

    3. Hahaha poor dutchman.

      1. Dutchman has nothing to do with it. Ocon said he was faster than Ves, thus faster than everybody else. So he had a handfull of laps left to overtake everybody twice to win the race. So i have to agree with most people on this forum that actually it was Ocon who was stolen from the win.

  55. I think a ban for not punching him is too hard. Yes, I understand anything else other than a punch was expected after such accident on track, but Max is from a newer generation, a little softer than we wished them to be, so you need to forgive him for lack of action. His father will have a word with him and I’m sure he will be ready to let that right hand fly next time.

  56. Also, shame on Helmut Marko for adding fuel the silly conspiracy theories.

  57. There are two types of people in this world, wolfs and sheep’s Which one are you..?

  58. Its poor form but its not FIAs or Red Bulls job to raise him. If he steps over the line throw him out otherwise dont act like hes your kid.

    1. @rethla – absolutely. It’s not the FIA’s job to build/shape his character, or to even assume character flaws on account of his father. I’m surprised at the number of people – Keith included – who think otherwise.

    2. @rethla @phylyp The FIA set the rules and the requirements for conduct in the sports they sanction. If a driver breaches any of these rules, they should be sanctioned. The FIA deemed Max to be in breach of a specific rule, which they cited from the rule book, meaning it wasn’t just made up ‘because the glove fits’, thus he was penalised.

      It’s got nothing to do with parenting – it’s all about ‘these are the rules and if you break them, here are the consequences’. That we’ve effectively seen that physical attacks = community service, it’s as meaningless as the 5-figure speeding fines.

      The FIA needs to decide on some proper genuine penalties for drivers who are endangering lives and/or starting fights.

      1. @optimaximal – agreed, my comment was about the article which brought in Jos’s parenting, and Max’s upbringing into the discussion. I agree with the sentiment of your comment, as I’ve commented likewise above.

  59. Jeffrey Powell
    12th November 2018, 14:11

    I’m with you Keith I’ve been watching F1 since 1965 and have seen all sorts of aggressive behaviour . I rate Max as a fantastic talent but like many young very fit sportsmen especially those who consider they are the best in the world aggression can take over in the spur of the moment.But this is the highest level where the team is responsible for controlling its drivers and setting a good example by steering them towards adult and safe behaviour. Something has evidently gone wrong with Red Bulls ability to mentor this situation , encouraging this sort of behaviour might appeal to a limited number of macho fans but The FIA should have issued a I race ban and a heavy fine for the team but it strikes me they are to scared of Red Bulls sometimes extreme reactions to reprimands.

  60. “…this is far from Serra/Boesel, Piquet/Salazar, Senna/Irvine or even Schumacher/Coulthard territory”.


    Seems very similar to me. Driver wronged, goes to remonstrate, gets (slightly) physical.

  61. Max is protected by the stewards it’s pretty obvious, they never punish him when he moves twice to defend or blocks other drivers. Max is as dirty as they get and he discourages clean close racing

    1. So Carlos .. you honestly think Max was wrong and not Ocon here … Max did nothing wrong in the race .. why should he have gotten a penalty when he was clearly in front at that corner and he also was the race leader!

      1. @arnoudvanhouwelingen Ocon did plenty wrong in the race, which is why he was issued with a 10-second stop & go penalty. He also didn’t go seek out another driver after the race and start a physical altercation.

        See the problem here?

      2. Technically the collision was Ocons fault and he was suitably punished for it. It doesn’t absolve Max of the stupidity for fighting him as though it was for position though.

        Having said that, if it were for position, I think Max would have been penalised for not leaving enough room when there was a significant portion of the car alongside him.

  62. @keithcollantine Amen .

    Bad behavior by Max. Even worse justification by Horner and ridiculously toothless action by FIA. He might be a good driver but it looked bad… very bad. Hamilton tried to speak some sense into him after the race. I was a fan of Schumacher but never a fan of his behavior at Spa towards Coulthard.

    If every driver came out and started pushing and shoving after a racing incident or a mistake, then we might have a street war after the race.

    Overall poor show by Verstappen . Hope his godfather(s) get some sense into him.

    Kudos to Occon for his restraint.

    1. Overall poor show by Verstappen

      so. you obviously only looked at the last part after the race.
      You missed all the real exitemtn on track.. the commanding way he passed all top drivers and did not made any mistake.
      The Ocon took him out contention. that’s the part you came in it seems..

      1. The previous comment was referring to his post race behavior which was unacceptable and he got off really lightly.

      2. @erikje Yes. I am only commenting on that part as this article related to the post race pushing and shoving incident by Verstappen. To make it clear “Overall Poor Show of Sportmanship by Verstappen”. Hope that helps.

        In a different article or discussion thread i am happy to comment about verstappen’s strong drive in Brazilian GP.

        Ocon served the penalty and paid his dues. Unless Verstappen feels that he is bigger than FIA and meat out his own punishment.

        Overall Hamilton made it clear to Max. “People try to Unlap and you have more to lose than them.” Nothing more. Nothing less.

        And I said this too…. I am a fan a Schumacher but hated what he did at Spa Francochamps on Coulthard……

      3. Have you ever considered that Lewis was driving a car with an engine that was on its way out?
        There is nothing commanding about passing a car that has a sick engine.
        Not to worry, in a few years you might be able to think rationally….

        1. @macradar..the same engine as the other merc he passed. Or the faster Ferrari..
          Maybe in time you will understand how f1 works. If there are still questions your welcome.

  63. I like Max and I like his edge but sometimes he gets it wrong. Sunday’s accident was avoidable. Sure, there are arguments on both sides as to whether Ocon should have been there into turn two but he was, Max knew it and took the racing line regardless.

    The confrontation afterwards was unnecessary, physical intimidation has no place in modern sport and although through history F1 has seen it’s fair share of confrontations it’s not acceptable to get in someone’s face in that manner any more. Christian Horner’s comments actually took me by surprise more than anything else, to say that publicly was a mistake on his part.

    I’d be interested to hear what Liberty think of the situation as it puts them in a tough spot. On the one hand the existing predominantly middle aged male audience yearn for confrontations like that and throwbacks to yesteryear but Liberty’s plan is, like major US sports, to take the sport to a younger family-friendly market. I assume they’ll not comment on it directly but their position would be clear if the footage was used in future promotional material.

    1. Liberty media is loving this. Their posterboy is making news.

      Hamilton, Vettel and Alonso are thing of past for them. They dont create excitment and they are mature now.

      They love the scenes that max Creates. It will generate interest in F1. Lot more comments and discussion in social media after race. Like this thread.

      Liberty got what it exactly hoped for.

  64. Surely this article is satirical? Are we really at the point when a bit of boyish shoving and some harsh words are on the same level as a terrorist attack? For Christ sake, this is MEN racing, it’s amazing they don’t get into fisticuffs after every single race!!!

    This wasn’t a hate crime, it was a bit of pushing. If that honestly offends you then you need to watch Formula E or Competitive Feminist Literature Reading because this sport isn’t for you.

    1. The above message has been brought to you by the 1950s.

      1. The above message has been brought to you by the 1950s.

        And your comment comes from a place where all male appendages have been surgically removed at birth.

    2. Competitive Feminist Literature Reading

      hahahaha that’s really funny.

      1. It must really grind your gears that Ocon earned more money this year alone than you will in your lifetime and has reached the pinnacle of a sport you love. I expect that tax cut money is coming any time soon to turn it all around.

        1. sure, I’d like to have Ocon’s paycheck, I admit it. But I want none of his wimpiness.
          and yes, I’d also like a tax cut.
          I’m sorry, were you making fun of me? it was terribly unclear…

          1. Oh, no, I wasn’t making fun of you, not in any way, shape or form.

  65. The problem is that the powers at F1 have already chosen Max as their poster boy. His behaviour is well known, is a mere bully supported by a bullish team. Until something very serious happen outside the track, or even worse, inside it, he will continue to be himself. Look at the interviews he gave after all those errors that culminated in Monaco. He believes he does nothing wrong. Who else do you know that alao thinks he’s always write, and is also orange?

    1. Amen….. Couldnt agree more.

  66. Antoon van Gemert
    12th November 2018, 14:47

    Never, ever read such a low, dirty, dangerous and tendentious article about Max Verstappen. I hope for you his management will not get hold of this article, because then you would be in trouble!

    P.S I ban RaceFans from now on!

  67. For all those proclaiming it was merely a shove and everyone should just look the other way, would that have been your response had Ocon retaliated by punching Max in the face resulting in some serious damage. Would you then be calling for Ocon’s head on a platter? There was a recent incident in where a man walked out of a convenience store to see the mother of his children being harassed by a stranger. He proceeds to shove the stranger away from her. The stranger proceeds to produce a gun and fatally shoots the man. But it was only a shove.

    1. Well good Ocon did not had a gun then.

    2. There’s no reasoning with the Orange Army…

      1. you need arguments for that.. did you see any?

        And it seems this incident leads to a new world war.. wich side you are on?
        ( just remembered the first one 100years ago)

      2. Thanks @optimaximal, that comment about the orange army really contributed to the discussion there. As being Dutch, I actually take (very mild) offence at that. Especially when it comes in the context of a story in the gun crazy US (I assume, hardly any other country allows ppl to carry guns exactly for this kind of reason) turned a shove into a gunfight.

        1. @bascb I’m not even going to rise to this – it was a comment referring to all the implacable Max Verstappen fans who are flooding the comments with numerous unreasonable, one-sided and inflammatory comments, no doubt as part of some ‘protest’ organised in other areas, given the identikit and mutual-agreement nature of the posts being made.

          It’s no different to the legions of ‘Tifosi’ and ‘Hamfosi’ or whatever other idiots pollute these types of post. People just need to get some perspective.

          1. They certainly do need to get some perspective @optimaximal!

            I must say i was kind of surprised about myself for feeling a tad miffed when reading your comment about the Dutch there.

  68. I don’t think Ocon deserves any praise. He just proved to everyone that he’s a wimp, that’s all.

    1. When you grow up, you’ll realise that being a “wimp” (I haven’t heard that term since I was 11 years old) is by an exponential order more difficult than losing your head, and thus a far more impressive feat.

      1. Ocon is a Wimp. Its pretty obvious the fact that Ocon did not apologize is what triggered Verstappen. If Ocon was a real man he would have made a apology. Especially after he was found guilty by the FIA.. Max always made a Apology when he was in the wrong. To Vettel and Riccardo for example. So calling Ocon a Wimp is or a coward is exactly what fits his description.

        1. Ocon actually did apologize on social media (whatever that’s worth), but I agree, he’s still a wimp for not having defended himself in a physical altercation.

      2. no, it’s not more difficult being a wimp, it’s just a state of being, takes no effort whatsoever. And I’m older than you.

        1. You’re not, and you’re ludicrously easy to look up and find personal details of – like 2 minutes easy. You might want to lock your identity down.

          1. i don’t care about my identity being visible. but anyhow, humor me: what’s my first name last name and age?

        2. Anyway, your complete openness on the internet is neither here, nor there, except it shows your willingness to lie about unimportant and easy to check details.

          What is pertinent is whether being a “wimp” as you so eloquently put it is better than losing your head.

          Let’s look at the evidence.

          Max has lost his freedom for two days for blowing his head.

          Ocon has not.

          Hmmm, difficult one.

          1. are you going to use my personal information against me somehow? If you take inspiration from people like Ocon, I highly doubt it.

          2. I’ll use it to demonstrate you are a liar.

  69. Have you seen the laughing face of Ocon ?? ..

  70. What a disgusting piece of crap article!
    The quality of this site is going down by the day.

    1. RebelAngelFloyd (@)
      12th November 2018, 15:06

      Keith, please stick to content about racing.
      And please don’t go into psychological analyses.
      Just like your father did in 1958. And in 1963. And als in 1978.

      Of course Max shouldn’t have shoved Ocon (Mercedes employee of the month).
      But realise that the incident that Ocon caused is potentially far more dangerous.

      We would have missed a lot of good races if the predecessors of Max were banned.

      1. Oooh, the tin foil hat brigade are out already! ((Grabs popcorn))

      2. HAHAHAHAHAHA just stick to the racing. Pathetic comment.
        This kind of ridiculous atittude just shows even more why the FIA should have been way more harsh on Verstappen.

        1. he’s right, FIA and RaceFans should stick to racing instead of sticking their noses where they don’t belong (ethics, morality, and other such subjective, man-made, volatile constructs) … that’s how noses end up getting punched!

  71. I’m gonna give myself a ban for 1 race from this website before I start shoving someone.

  72. Bit about his father is a bit far, but for the rest 100% accurate.

  73. Mazepin got banned for punching a rival, so Max should be banned for pushing Ocon.

    What even?

  74. This is just a cheap shot from Keith Collantine. Especially dragging Jos Verstappen into the story.

    What Max Verstappendid after the race was wrong, but a lot of people on the forum are overreacting. Keith is cleverly making use of that in this article.

  75. I also disagree with the stance of Keith’s (pretty much a first for me) that Max should have been disqualified from the race. I have several reasons for this.

    I reject the bringing up of Jos into the equation. Perhaps that would hold more water if Max had a reputation for this sort of thing, but he doesn’t. If he has a reputation for saying things like I’ll butt their heads or what have you, that’s just verbiage. Max has no reputation for shoving people in the chest.

    Keith points out that this incident was nothing compared to others ala Senna/Irvine etc. Did any of the F1 drivers cited actually get disqualified? No the precedent cited is from F3, and that was apparently for a punch. So why should Max be disqualified? To stem some sort of violent trend? Please. There is no evidence that Max is prone to this nor that he will be a repeat offender.

    Ocon showed restraint? He better have. He ruined Max’s win. What was he going to do, not only ruin Max’s race but aggressively defend that ridiculous move as well? F1 has already shown him with his penalty that he was in the wrong. He should not have been surprised at Max’s heat if the moment reaction, and could have immediately showed contrition and apologized and tried to sooth Max’s understandably ruffled feather. But no it sounds like he provoked him further.

    Anyway, it sounds like they were civil in the FIA room and shook hands. Calling for draconian measures on Max that have no precedence in F1 seems a heavy handed response.

    Also, in the real world yes there is a difference in degrees of violence. Sports are made up events that pit individuals in competition meant to entertain us. I can see ‘violence’ in a hockey game, as in every hockey game, and it doesn’t mean I condone the type of violence that we know can really occur in the real world. So I simply disagree that tolerating violence to any degree is tolerating violence. Let’s always look at where and why whatever degree of violence took place, be it in the real world or the sporting world, and know that some altercations can barely be considered violent at all, and then some are horrendously violent. Case in point, I am not fussed whatsoever about what Max did, but that to me is not the real violence that we need be concerned about.

  76. So F1 just posted a video of Max extending a hand to Ocon and Ocon shaking it a while back. It’s over, let’s move on.

  77. The FIA should also call Horner for a possible breach of the sporting code. I can get Max getting all worked up after the race, the adrenaline is high and all, but for a team principal to suggest that Ocon was “lucky” it was just a push, it really is uncalled for. I expected better from him.

    Max’s penalty is a joke. As someone else commented it wasn’t just a couple of “pushes”, it was trying to initiate violence. Many much more physical sports deal with something like that much harder. I would expect a race ban *at least*.

    The comments in the article about Jos Verstappen are pretty much useless and out of topic. What a person’s parents have done are irrelevant in our subject, which is Max’s penalty, which of course can’t and won’t be influenced by his father getting into a bar brawl. I’ve come to expect better writing from Keith, so I guess that this is just a bad moment.

    1. so Horner should be punished for something he said? As in words that came out of his mouth? A bit fascist, don’t you think?

      1. @marciare-o-marcire of course he should, in almost every sport in the world there are punishments for what you say to the media. Is this news to you?

  78. LOL, for a moment I thought I had wandered into Reddit, and had to recheck the URL :-)

    1. @phylyp The real problem is, Keith activated this behavior with this “article” He really did his best to start a flame war with the first sentence:

      Let’s have a round of applause for Esteban Ocon.

      And a little “lower” (pun intended) the Sun inspired part about the father.
      It’s a real low for this site and the consequences for the atmosphere are already showing in the way people react on each other.
      I hope Keith sees this as a warning for the future.

      Btw, in a lengthy interview about the career of Max, the father was asked about his digressions and the influence on max. He was adamant that his “lessons learned” would not negatively influence Max and that is should be a warning for Max not to go there. So at least he is very open about his parental influence and the ways needed to avoid this behavior on max.
      None of that shows up in the “article” so at least showing some bad homework before..

      1. Btw, in a lengthy interview about the career of Max, the father was asked about his digressions and the influence on max. He was adamant that his “lessons learned” would not negatively influence Max and that is should be a warning for Max not to go there.

        Oh, that’s very nice to hear.

        BTW, you do realize that @ notifications work only from registered users to registered users, I hope? I didn’t get any notification despite you correctly putting in an @phylyp.

  79. I think you’ve succeed in starting a debate, Keith.

    Whilst I do still feel the original on-track incident was more Ocon’s fault then Verstappen’s (a hard racing overtake isn’t a good move for unlapping yourself), I can’t condone Verstappen’s response on the weigh-bridge. He certainly deserves more a slap around the head then this rather pointless ‘punishment’, but I get a horrible feeling that such mealymouthed ‘punishments’ may become the norm going off the fact Vettel was by and large let off for ignoring instructions from an official.

  80. Keith Collantine; please go and look for a docter. This publication is a disgrace. MV just robbed from a victory in F1 and as a reaction he pushes aside a very enoying smiling OCON who did something what nobody ever have seen before in F1, hit the leader of the race as a backmarker. How in earth are you entitled to write a peace about MV and mark him with the behaviour of his father in the past. RaceFans platform; shame on you, publishing this kind of rubish. I think Racefans and Keith should apologize for this article. Ans Keith are you sure we don’t find anything about you or family if we google or do litlle bit of research. I was realy shocked when i was reading this article

    1. Come man, you are over reacting.
      Calm down.

      In what world do you live if this article shocks you?

      Take a chill pill dude.

    2. Why do you visit this web site? As web site owner he can write how and what he likes within the rules of libel.
      You can choose to read or leave. Suggest you take the leave option.

      You have not been a F1 fan for long. Back marker taking out a race leader? Suggest a certain Verstappen snr who took out race leader Montoya in 2001 as a starting reference.

      As for going to “find” out about Keith’s past (including shamefully on your part, his family) is straight out of the antifa playbook.

      Last thing anyone here or anywhere else is your flaccid intimidation.

      Sure you are not a snowflake? Need a safe space?

      1. That is just the point, drag something into play what don’t belongs here, a F1 website for fans but maybe you aint that clever Gerrit. Tell me what is the value to bring Max father behaviour in the past up in this article. Why Keith is writing this kind off stuff, does he have a mental problem. Is MV someone who Keith wants to be; a great race driver without fear. Can’t he appreciate a racer who beats LH on merrit. Like Max if make a mistake, Keith should apologize for this terrible article

        1. Verstappen snr behaviuor was bought up because unbeknown to you, back markers have taken out race readers in the past.

          You question this article’s writer sanity and then ask for an apology. You must be a snowflake that cant take responsibility and remove themselves from the perceived evils of this web site article.

          Keith does not owe you an apology. You can disagree with him, you can discuss it with him but you cannot question his sanity and rights. You can however protect yourself from all this aggression by removing yourself from the discussion and finding a safe space.

          There is no doubt Vertappen jnr is a great fast driver. He is not by a long shot a great racer. A great racer has spatial awareness and works the risk versus reward percentages.

          What was the risk of giving Ocon more room? None. What was the reward? A race win.
          What was the risk of cutting across Ocon’s line in the corner? Huge. What was the reward? A crash and a race loss.

          Should Ocon have been inside him in turn 2? No. But he WAS there so at that point a racer weighs up the option in regards risk and reward. Verstappen jnr is not yet a racer who understand this.

          Race smarts is what it is called and any competitor knows that spatial awareness to work out risk and reward is part and parcel of winning.

          1. So Hamilton is also not a great racer with “spatial awareness” ?

          2. he is the one
            13th November 2018, 9:20

            you still don’t answer mine question; why had keith to bring max’s upbringing into play. In his article he suggest there is a connection between that litlle push and the things max father did. That’s why i suggest keith has a mental problem, both are easy to say and belongs to Sun reporting. I am disappointed in keith because he should know his responsibility as a editor. Now that he has publish this stuff there are always idiots who gonna use this against Max for the rest of his live. If you gonna frame somebody like Keith did is very dangerous. In de past this mechanisme have happening to a entire race. I am angry about that because keith is grown men and he should think about what he have done.

  81. He pushed him.

    Ocon hit him on the track and smiled in his face and blamed VER for the race incident.

    And VER pushed him.

    So what? Its nothing. Just some pushing.

    We want to watch men compete as good as they can?

    Then sometimes in a extraordinary situation like this one, the leader colliding with a guy one lap behind, this can happen.
    Nothing wrong with it.
    I actually think this was needed to make clear to Ocon to dont do this again.

    It was really good that VER showed to Ocon that he doesnt accept this behaviour, nor should anyone else. Ocon needed to get put in his place, so he wont do it again.

    This is how men educate each other.

    If I screw someone else in my life, then I wont complain if that person only pushed me a couple times.

    This is how things work in the real world. Only in disney world men complain about being pushed.

  82. Restraint or cowardice?

  83. The first article on this site (ever) that I have seriously disagreed with after years of being a Racefan fan. To an extent, disappointed. Again, I am not a MV fan one bit. Just getting that out of the way. But a lot about this article is just getting personal. I see the point you are trying to make Keith but it hasn’t come across well. Sure, you are much more of an expert and perhaps your opinion holds sway far more than a lot of people on this site but to suggest a ban for a little push and shove is stretching things beyond the ordinary in my view.

    1. I couldn’t agree more. Keith absolutely disgraced himself with this poor article. It was a bit of shoving.
      And that father-son argument? What is he thinking. Complete disgrace.
      Bye bye racefans.

      1. I don’t think it is a disgrace. Everyone Is entitled to an opinion. Just that Keith is the editor is this site and whilst he is entitled to express an opinion on Max’s behaviour, it is wrong to link his behaviour with that of his dad’s

        1. But to all those claiming this article is libel or should be reported to the police, please get over yourselves. It isn’t. And yes, I am a lawyer.

          1. No it’s just disgusting.
            Bad enough I would say. The result is polarisation and a lot of anger on the site.
            Bad enough I would say.

  84. Funny how those thinking a physical response is how ‘real men’ sort it out; are all reaching for the smelling salts because Keith expressed an opinion.

    1. Love this!!!

  85. I think FIA has blown it all out of proportion. Just let the drivers deal with there problems like men as was done back in the day. Serra/Boesel, Piquet/Salazar, Senna/Irvine or even Schumacher/Coulthard, it all adds to the spectacle of the sport. To be honest it topped off what was a very dramatic & exciting race.

    We want to see human emotion both on & off the track not emotionless robots racing.

    1. This if Formula 1 in 2018, not UFC

      1. They didnt even fight.

        Ufc comment is a joke.
        Have you even ever seen ufc?

        Ocon laughed in his face, look at the photo in the header.

        Its good Ver made clear to Ocon that he doesnt accept his behaviour.

    2. Hey he wants to be mad at it, he has every right to but physically attacking someone is a line that shouldn’t be crossed.

  86. Hi Keith – after wading through the first couple of dozen comments, and a few of the comments on the other OCO/VER pages here I have totally refrained from reading any more – ever…!
    However, I just wanted to say this article makes a lot of sense, but is not likely to ‘take’ with anyone with a physical or mental age of thirty or more.
    And commendations to ‘David DR’ who courageously perseveres to inject an air of sanity to this web-site.

    1. @BlackJackFan Cheers if you mean me! it’s exhausting work :P

      1. I did indeed, D BR (always reminds me of Aston Martin.)
        And, woe is me… After re-reading my comment several times before posting I’ve just discovered I meant to say: ‘is not likely to ‘take’ with anyone with a physical or mental age of thirty or LESS…!
        [Don’t do as I do, do as I say… lol.]

  87. I find it odd/funny no one mentions “tactics on the side” like Toto Wolff did a while back – – And come on its Kimi we’re talking about. We’re talking about Ocon which Mercedes admittedly gave “team orders” – – Verstappen should get a ban, others before have done worse in the past, if those are the rules but i hope next race Ocon tries to unlap himself with Lewis, and does the same thing, so his team bosses at Mercedes keep him out of F1.

  88. Man, this comments section reminds me of – it’s gone to the dogs. There’s more people insulting each other than there are people providing valid, unbiased opinions.

  89. Thanks for the opinion piece @keithcollantine, well reasoned and presented, pity there are so many whacko’s out there looking to defend their wonderkid no matter what.

  90. Keith,

    I’m following this site for a very long time now. And this is the first time you’re very wrong on this subject.

    I’m disappointed by your judgement on this. Especially bringing his father into this story.

    I love this site, I read it on a daily basis. But this story prompts me to react to express my thoughts.

    1. @marcusaurelius, That’s exactly my opinion as well. Disappointing.

      All the time people have been saying that drivers should sort issues themselves rather than the FIA applying lots of penalties. Honestly what were people expecting to happen?

    2. Agreed.
      While I think Max should not have pushed (it wasn’t a hit, Ocon was not hurt in any way) as you simply cannot touch other drivers, he had every reason to be mad at Ocon. And Esteban did not even have the courtesy of giving an honest apology, instead he went to defend his action – even though the stewards dealt him the hardest punishment short of a black flag.

      Max got his penalty and it was just as lukewarm as his pushing Esteban, which is just right. If you intentionally hurt an opponent, like Mazepin did, a race ban could be in order. These open hand pushes while being laughed at in the face are nowhere in comparison. Bad role model, no harm done otherwise.

    3. Fully agree. Keith’s bias has obviously been very clear for a longer time now, but this article is really crazy indeed.

  91. RebelAngelFloyd (@)
    12th November 2018, 17:12


    Below par story and poor judgment.

    Please consider a self-ban for the next race.

    Love you site though!

  92. Totally agree with this article, Verstappen, great driver and all, it’s an inmature spoiled brat. He is over-inflated and thinks he’s always going to get away with it.

  93. Senna-Irvine bust-up 25 years later.

  94. Judging by Ocon’s smirking and press pool interview, he seemed quite pleased with himself. I think he crashed into Max on purpose.

    1. Dutchguy (@justarandomdutchguy)
      12th November 2018, 21:09

      That you can’t prove

  95. The piece was too emotional, Keith.. Again. Is this a blog???

  96. The whole time I thought I was on PlanetF1 while reading this article… silly me!

  97. MB (@muralibhats)
    12th November 2018, 17:50

    Not the first time Keith has stooped so low to get high traffic onto the site. Journalism shouldn’t have any favoritism and its not the case in this article. An article read by so many people- you cannot peddle your idea of it as a judgement. I am no VER fan, but you have bought the family into this and referring to him following his dad in manners is absurd.

  98. Come on people, please calm down! This isn’t a news report, it’s a comment. An opinion. Keith is entitled to have one and as an admin of the site he has all the rights to publish it whenever he wants. Ony thing you complainers are doing is helping him out by clicking on the article and spending time on the page thus creating ad revenue for Keith and for the RaceFans.

    If I was an admin of a similar site I’d consistently publish “comments” about how Kimi is far greater driver than Vettel, Hamilton, Verstappen and Alonso combined and would make good amounts of money when all the supporters of those other drivers would gather to the comment section to whine about it while watching the ads which generate money for me at the same time.

    1. So what you actually mean this article is ordinary clickbait.
      Nothing to be proud of then.

    2. @huhhii, I see your point BUT:

      Keith’s opinion is no different than Max’s opinion. Max is also entitled to have one and he “published” it. There are tons of comments here suggesting that “Max’s behavior was way over the line and a bad example for youngsters etc.”. Since both Keith and Max influence tons of people out there with what they do and say, why should we accept Max’s bashing all over the place and rule out Keith’s? Is it fair? Last time I checked, this was called “double standards”. You could also fit it on a different saying: “Two wrongs do not make a right”.

      And this is quite common on this blog. I checked ALL the messages up until now. It is really hilarious, and a pure example of hypocricy, stupidity, bias and cretinism, several commentators keep shouting about his violent behavior, yet on later comments the same people write: “It was about time for this punchable brat”.

      Yes, they use the word “punchable”. As a reasonable person, I am supposed to tolerate this community theater with really bad actors aka hypocrites? I don’t think so. This site should be called

  99. I agree this kid Max needs to be given some lesson or penalty as his behaviour is continuing to get worse both on and off track.

    On track he is developing a Maldonado-like reputation where he is fast but very accident prone. Numerous times he clashed this season alone, ruining other’s races and pretty much got away without any penalities.

    If we have 20 Max on the track, i imagine there would be carnage every race. With only 2 or 3 finishihg the race.

    Its quite visible that even the top drivers like Lewis and Vettel, think twice when racing Max, because he is maldonado-like and take too many risks which the top drivers dont take. I doubt he would be winning championships if he goes on like this.

    In Singapore Lewis lost 4 seconds getting by the backmarker coz he didn’t want to take unnecessary risks. Its the leader who has the most to lose in this situation and as Lewis said post race to Max, that he should have just given him a bit more space and none of this would have happened.

    Hope MAXimum VERSTubborn learns from this.

  100. Totally agree with this article. If you let people escape from stuff like that, and not really punish them, soon we could have F1-UFC racing weekends.

    1. Idiotic article. Pushing someone a little bit is not ‘violence’. This would barely warrant a yellow card in “does my hair look perfect honey?”-modern football ! Keith and the rest of the politically correct nanny-group killed the sport. This site has lost its mind. ps. dont like Verstappen, but Ocon overtaking a race leader and in -any- way forcing the race leader to alter his line the slightest bit, is the most nonsensical thing I’ve seen from a backmarker in 40 years.

  101. Wether or not one has a positve (or negative for that matter) pre-disposition towards Verstappen JR, needlessly including Verstappen SR’s private live into an argument for banning his son is neither here nor there imho. Quite frankly, I think it’s rather cheap. And I actually have quite a high opinion of this site’s (and Keith’s) journalistic quality and writing in general.

  102. The smile of ocon reveals he hit ver on purpose.

    He cant stand ver is so good.

    If it was not on purpose he would laugh in verstappens face as in the photo in the header.

    1. Yea, it’s the way he looked.

      How many times has that excuse been used before to justify someone else’s actions.

      1. Verstappen did great putting Ocon in his place and letting him know his behaviour on and off track is unacceptable.

        Great job

  103. I personally believe that any physical aggression is not sportsman like conduct. These men are supposed to be at the top of this pinnacle of motor-sports. They are supposed to be the most talented, the most fit, the most sportsman like, yet threatening another driver and trying to start a physical altercation is okay? I get the “passion of the moment” but Max has been a loose cannon for a long time now. Nobody, NOBODY is saying NO, that’s enough, to this young man. What is Red bull and the FIA helping to create here? Maldonado comes to mind except he had far less talent than Max does and at least was punished for his terrible track incidents. I know worse things have happened in the past. Does that mean we continue to encourage Max’s bad behavior? I don’t really care about his father and his upbringing. He should behave like a sportsman, with respect and maybe just a little bit of humility. Maybe that is what Max needs to learn more than anything else? I used to be impressed by Max’s potential. But the last two seasons have just proven that he is a very talented menace. Every driver on the track avoids engaging him if at all possible! How is that good for the sport? And for Max’s development as a potential World Champion? Ego is a huge part of this sport. You don’t get here if you don’t have massive amounts of talent and confidence. Some take that confidence to the arrogance level (Alonso springs to mind) but Max last weekend…someone earlier commented something about behaving like an “entitled bully”. I have to agree. We in the United States at least have begun to look at our “sports heroes” and how their behavior (both on and off the fields/courts, etc) effects our young people who look up to them. I think the same applies here. Fans and Liberty truly want to bring more young people to the sport. But is this kind of behavior what we want our young people to idolize? Not my son thank you. Nor my daughter for that matter.

  104. Well I do not always agree with some of Keiths comments, but with this article he has got it just right. Although its obvious not that many agree. Max whatever the rights or wrongs had Ocon far enough alongside to be seen, and he should have allowed him space..Was it worth the risk??…Max was in front of Lewis and at that point had the faster car….so why chop Ocon?? In the weighing room…surely in the control of the FIA, he stormed in and began pushing Ocon around…..and yes Ocon could have fallen over and hurt himself…then what.
    Max has aggression on and off the track, and he needs it controlling…and the pathetic reprimand by the stewards was a poor response. Any driver in any sport has to feel safe from a physical attack from other drivers. Max is becoming a bully and a loose cannon…I also wouldn’t be happy if the swear word at the press conference had got out…children watch this as well…Max has no regard of any authority…..2 days service for a push….he may as well punch someone and get 4 days….
    ps…for those of a certain age…I remember his dad in a similar mould.
    Max W …hero to zero for me….

    1. Let’s go deep digging in Joe Jopling’s family!

  105. Being a lawyer, I disagree with Keith’s opinion.
    Max was given a punishment – 2 days of public service. The nature of punishment is not vengeance, but to correct one’s behavior. Thus choosing a penalty for a person you have to take into account various things – his begavior after incident, does he feel guilt, was it the first time or certain person has done something similar in the past. This time stewards deemed a penalty of 2 days of public service for FIA sufficient for correcting such behavior. It doesn’t mean, that second time such behavior from Max would be taken as lightly. Therefore, let’s try to explain to a person that such behavior is bad and he must refrain from it the next time, not try to punish him in such a way, that he would feel anger and be furious. In such case, he would do it again, because he would feel anger towards FIA for giving him such heavy punishment. Let’s monitor Max’s behavior and next time it could be ban from a race. But not this time.

    1. @osvaldas31 Well said and I agree and said similar things in my post above. I was surprised at Keith’s heavy handed approach which almost made it sound like indeed Max is already a repeat offender, which he is not. His Dad’s behaviour is irrelevant. The only other precedent for a ban was in F3 for a punch, not a push. Nothing in F1. And Keith acknowledges other incidents in the past were more severe than what we saw Ocon do. Really not seeing the need to bring in Max’s family’ history, nor suggest such a draconian penalty.

      I also strongly believe that Ocon could have helped diffuse the situation. He knew F1 was on Max’s side due to the penalty he was issued, so he could have immediately apologized as he saw Max approach with no doubt a pretty stern and red-faced look, and prevented the situation from escalating. Even if Ocon still felt he was right and being wrongly penalized, he still went aggressively up the inside of the race leader who spun out and lost the lead and ultimately the win. Would it have hurt him to apologize for how it went down even if he still felt he would do it again?

  106. Max is a lucky guy to be let off so easy.. looking at his father’s history it could be said that it runs in the family.

  107. Hahaha Maxy fans going all out.
    This is why the FIA should have been way more harsh.
    People angry about bringing his father into the subject. Well, his father is a violent man and the pathetic behaviour of Max since his entered F1 just shows that there is a connection. Hamilton gave Max a lecture, he should really listen to it. As for Red Bull response, a really pathetic one. But no surprise at all there, they turned themselves in one of the most disgusting teams of F1, simply they don’t know how to lose.

    1. Hahaha Anti Max people going mad. Accusing someone of behaviour and displaying it themselves. Maybe your father is a disgusting man. Your comment just shows that there is a connection. And I could go on.
      Undoubtedly you will react with the same praised restraint that Ocon supposedly showed. And because you know how to lose you will be very graceful.

      Or won’t you?

  108. I too was impressed by how restrained Ocon was. Not only was he restrained, he also had a smile in his face all through the episode. Obviously he wanted to mellow things down – it’s an example for many others including people like me. If someone kept pushing or shoving me repeatedly, I would have retaliated in a big way. But had Ocon done something like that, it would have escalated into a big fight, of the kind that happens in NASCAR. Speaking of NASCAR, I wonder why the governing body doesn’t punish such physical altercations there. At least here, the stewards have taken note and dealt with it though it really is an inadequate penalty. There is no doubt that Jos has made Max this way – expecting the whole world to set apart its resources just to help him win. And when that doesn’t happen, shout it out and throw the toys out of the pram. In Max’s defense though, it certainly is a heartbreak to have your win robbed from you. But these things do happen in motor racing, and Max could have talked to Ocon in a heated manner without physically sorting it out. Btw, Hamilton and Mercedes-AMG should give Ocon a bouquet ‘coz without that incident Hamilton would have been totally overshadowed by Max.

    1. . Not only was he restrained, he also had a smile in his face all through the episode. Obviously he wanted to mellow things down –

      his body language and his face .. both very provocative .
      When Max left the scales Ocon even followed him to provoke him even more. Look at the second part of the footage No, not a nice person. And the way he reacted when max offered him a handshake tells a different story compared with your view on the event.
      Of course what max did was plain wrong and stupid. but if Ocon had offered an apology , it would have been a different outcome. Both are to blame here, of track.

  109. Unfavoriting RaceFans is like dumping a girlfriend. We really had a good run, but in the end you just gotta make the cut.

    1. Same for me, very disappointed by this article. Bye, bye Racefans

      1. wow… really?!

    2. To be fair the only similarity between RaceFans and your girlfriends is that they both begin with www.

      1. @ Ian, That must be then, and to be fair: Marciare_o_Marcire was 100% right when he formerly described where you originate from.

  110. Keith Collantine, come on, Ocon restrained? Praise for Ocon? Max looking for a fight? It were a few pushes and Ocon clearly provoking Max. Ocon stating later that the FIA had to keep Max away from him. And that Max was very violent. Max just stated on Dutch television that he went to Ocon to ask for an explanation. But the first thing Ocon did was smirk and saying “I was quicker”.
    The perpetrator Ocon is getting away with it and the one who was provoked and – let’s be realistic- only gave a couple op pushes is being crucified. By dragging his family’s history into the picture and insinuating that Max is genetically predestined to violence and even distorting parts of it, is repulsive. I f I could give a penalty it would be for you to spend 2 days in the company of Max Verstappen.

    You conveniently left out what the stewards said about this incident

    The Stewards held a hearing, in which both drivers acted appropriately and cooperated with the Stewards. The Stewards understood from Max Verstappen that he was extremely upset by the incident on track during the race and accepted his explanation that it was not his origional intent to strike Ocon, but that he was “triggered” and caused him to loose his temper.
    While sympathetic to Verstappen’s passion, the Stewards determined that it is the oligation of sportsmen at this level to act appropriately and as role models to other drivers at all levels and found that Verstappen failed in this respect. The Stewards therefore ordered that Max Verstappen is required to perform two (2) days of public service at the direction of the FIA within six months of the incident. (Penalty under Art. 12.3.1.c of the FIA International Sporting Code.)

    By the way, Max and Esteban shook hands yesterday evening in the paddock. So if they can put it behind them, why can’t you? Or is that a dubious family trait and in the genes (just teasing)

    1. As far as I know, what Ocon said to Verstappen has not been made public, so how do you know Verstappen was provoked?
      Verstappen was very angry and he carried it through till the end of the race. So maybe no matter what Ocon said Verstappen was intent on letting off steam.
      But yeah the handshake is a good outcome.

      1. First thing he said was: haha.. i was faster than you.

        1. (@rvg013) Ah I see. I can see how in Verstappens eyes that would be a red flag. I have said before that I think Verstappen does not like being challenged so much as showing off his ability. He seems to take being overtaken as a personal affront, a challenge to his masculinity even. Being told that he is not the fastest to his face would be quite confronting for him.

  111. I really cannot believe how viral this incident went on all media. Has F1 become that boring that there is nothing else to write about? Mercedes became champs. Hello? This stupid incident does not deserve all the attention.

    And if there is one loser to point out, it is not Max, F1 or Ocon, it is the combined F1 press. Shame on you.

  112. Can Keith be banned please!!! What a complete NONSENSE!!!

  113. Ocon was to blame, wholly and completely. Verstappen’s outburst was childish, if understandable.

    If you’re going to ‘punish’ anyone for Verstappen’s actions you’d probably be better to chastise Red Bull. Verstappen’s got a temper issue as large as his talent and it’s surely in Red Bull’s best interests to curb that sooner than later.

    From an advertising perspective, I doubt Liberty are bothered – if anything they’ll be rubbing their hands with glee. F1 gets accused of being too sterile, too controlled and Verstappen’s little shoving match can be comfortably marketed as passion. Which, it is, if misguided.

    From a personal perspective, restraint and not resorting to violence when things don’t go your own way is certainly something he should have learnt by now, but when that behaviour manifests and costs him titles it’ll be a lesson for him.

    Really ‘banning’ him isn’t going to make any difference to a character like his, it’ll simply embolden him. When he loses due to his temper – which will happen, he’ll learn. The alternative is booting him from F1 completely but I can’t see that happening.

  114. It looks this man, received some money from Ocon or Mercedes, to write such a rubbish article……

  115. So Max’s natural reaction to disappointment is to threaten violence (on the radio, while in the car) and then actually shove a competitor several minutes after the race. Yeah, I’d say that’s worthy of a race ban, to make an example and nip bad behavior. What’s nearly as bad is Christian Horner condoning it. He should get a sanction, too.

  116. This is a section from one of my posts on the 11th.

    I’m sure Jos Verstappen and Helmet Marko will be cheering him on, but neither of them ever got to the top.
    If Max Verstappen can break free of the three horseman of the apocalypse (Jos, Marko and Horner) and get some proper advise on how to handle himself on track and off. He likely will be a WDC and one of the best drivers of his era.

    Also he has had the attitude of “winning at all cost” drummed into him by his father from a young age. I Will not go into Jos Verstappens attitude towards women suffice to say it’s pretty poor. Jos showed little or no respect for other drivers that showed throughout his career. He was a very quick driver but he just could not keep it together long enough to establish himself as a front runner, simply because of his attitude.
    Max Verstappen has proven to be one of the most skilled drivers currently in F1 when it comes to speed and driving ability. As most of us have seen is his attitude of superiority and arrogance when challenged during a race, he just can’t handle being challenged. He believes that he is has right of way no matter what, no matter what the circumstances of any of his many incidents, he thinks he is in the right.
    Verstappen does not race he drives very fast and expects everyone else to keep out of his way. He is not passionate about F1 or motor racing in general he just likes the feeling of winning and beating others, he wants to inflict a loss on others.
    Next yr if the Honda powered RBs do not perform as promised, I suspect Verstappen will get even worse in his behavior as his frustration builds. I think next yr will be the defining yr in his career, it will make him or break him.

    1. Really well put

  117. What happened should have never been allowed to happen. And what I mean is Ocons attempt to pass. At least not at this point and especially not on the outside.
    Verstappens temper….. Heck. I played competitive hockey for a long time. And one thing is for sure…. When your Adrenaline is up any little bit of anger is multiplied by … (pick a number).
    The FIA is at fault here too. They knew how he felt (given his comments on the radio) and they did not do anything to prevent it. Red Bull is at fault too for not calming him down more.
    But….Everybody reacts different with frustration. Verstappen pushed Ocon. Hamilton walked away from the post race interviews (Silverstone), Nascar Drivers throw their helmet at each other.
    Race Ban….. nope. If Vettel did not get banned for his incident, then a shove should not warrant a Ban. Had he sucker punched the heck out of him… Then yes.

    1. Also to add to my comment…. The FIA set a precendent with this. Everyone knows that a shove doesn’t get you banned. Ramming into another Car (vettel) doesn’t get you Banned.
      So…. Drivers have nothing to worry. But Verstappen (like Hamilton) are the big Name superstars that draw huge crowds to the tracks. What is it were a back marker? It’s easy to come down hard at a driver that doesn’t receive the big number support and exposure. But banning Verstappen or any other superstar, costs you money (in Fans not watching, buying Tickets, Merchandise, Court and Lawyer fees because of appeals).

  118. Max is a bully… he knew what he was dong, seeking out and cornering Ocon, trying to provoke him into lashing out and giving him an excuse to fight back – the old ‘self defence’ defence. Ocon did what any self-respecting victim of bullying should do – smile in their face… it only enrages them all the more!

    Jos is a violent man (fact) who Max idolises (so very relevant) and now Max has moved from open threats to being physical – and there’s a reason he has more penalty points than any other driver this season… the man is a nutjob. A fast driver but a nutjob nonetheless.

    1. Couldn’t have said it better myself!

      1. It is good to see the Knights Of The Moral High Ground have gathered and are united on this very subject!

  119. I’m sorry but this is bad writing. Yes it will get the clicks but I always used to think it was more about the passion for the sport @keithcollantine. I noticed headlines slowly are becoming more and more dodgy… this article is a new low. Like tabloid low. I fear the short term clicks are not worth losing your existing reader base. I really hope you chose to try and chase quality more instead in the future

    1. Keith has always done opinion pieces when he feels strongly about an issue, at least for as long as I’ve been reading. This isn’t really any different.

      There have been plenty of fair and balanced articles quoting different opinions about the issue, it’s more than fair for Keith to do an editorial on the issue. Calling Racefans on par with a tabloid I think is particularly ridiculous.

      1. @skipgamer I agree 100%
        I must say I’m pretty disappointed with the litany of comments directed at Keith for this article.

        I’ve refrained from having much to say about either the collision or the aftermath because of the sort of reactions we’ve seen over the past couple of days. All I can say is that sadly, I think we can safely assume that nothing much will change with that individuals attitude in the foreseeable future because the FIA and his team management don’t really see the need.

        Keith has every right to express his opinion, as does everyone else contributing, but for pity’s sake lets take some of the really mad rhetoric away from it.

  120. The incident itself was relatively minor composted to what you might see in other sports, but that’s why I largely don’t watch other sports. I’ve slways considered F1 (well, motorsport generally) a bit more of a gentleman’s sport where the respect between competitors is clear and I see drivers as greater role models to my kids than some of the cricketers and footballers here in Australia. Sadly incidents like this make headlines more than the actual racing here and I think that’s something that damages the reputation of the sport more than the severity of the incident itself.

  121. Ben Rowe (@thegianthogweed)
    12th November 2018, 22:54

    People find this “push” interesting enough to trigger them to comment quite clearly compared to races. Must be more interesting to some! :D Over 800 comments on pages just on the topic of the physical contact and not the crash. I think this likely will add up to more comments than over the last 2 full race weekends. Rather funny if I’m honest. As is looks like it may get more people into F1 if there was a boxing match on the scales after each race.

    1. a boxing match on the scales after each race

      If only it still were in Bernie’s power…

  122. We can only pray that Ocon will fully recover from this sheer violence.

    1. @tony667
      He is still recovering from his assassination attempt at Spa last year…

  123. Keith is a journalist and he published his opinion. He influences tons of people in here with what he says. Max is racer and he expressed his emotions. He influences tons of people in F1 with what he does.

    Personally I disagree with both of them they way they handled it, although I feel for both of them to a certain extent for different reasons. Am I supposed to accept Max’s bashing all over the place and rule out Keith’s? A reasonable and not biased person would not accept this.

    You have every right to disagree but you have no right to make fun of other people’s opinion or stab them on their back with a totally irrelevant argument just to make a point, which is a non-point. It could fit on not one but two categories. “Two wrongs do not make a right” or “double standards”.

    Also you have some commentators here, who keep shouting about Max’s violent behavior, and on their other posts they write: “that punchable brat”.

    This is plain hypocrisy, stupidity, bias and cretinism.

    1. Next time you demand attention, try opening your window and shouting really loud. Copy Pasting the same thing twice with different accounts proves how desperate you are for a comment… You’ve got it. Have fun.

      1. @vaiosp
        First of all, hardly I write something here because there are very few objective people you can talk with. This place is full of biased fans with double standards. Self-respecting people cannot argue with them. I tried to post my message on some other guy above as a reply, without registering. When I clicked “submit”, it disappeared with no other info whatsoever. So I had to register for a new account and re-write the whole stuff by memory. Secondly, my first unregistered nickname was “Ioannis K.” and as all can see on my registered one, “ioannisk” is my username also.

        Thanks for your insights though.

        Youtube, for instance, is full of people like you: Typical know-it-all greek guy, kserolas, who doesn’t bother to post an argument on the message he reads, but being childish and arrogant, just posts to make fun of others.

        Exactly as I said on my message. Pretty sad that it is confirmed once again.

  124. Matthew Villari
    13th November 2018, 3:27

    Pretty unfair to judge Max as a person based on the actions of his father. Also when Max was walking away at the end, Esteban started following him again to continue the altercation in some way. Hardly worth any applause. The fact is Max didnt hit him, or didn’t go to hit him, unlike Senna or Piquet once did. Who knows what Esteban said to Max to warrant the shove? They shook hands after, I dont see why the FIA need to ban Max for a race so that the people paying to go watch the race in Abu Dhabi miss the chance to watch Max because some people here are offended by some shoving.

    1. Michael (@freelittlebirds)
      13th November 2018, 12:54

      Actually, you’d be shocked if you found out how much children take after their parents including their father. What are the odds that Max would have been a F1 driver if his father wasn’t one? Obviously, the dad has massive anger management problems and we don’t know the half of it. It sheds more light into Max’s driving behavior than any article I have read before.

  125. I wonder how Verstappen fans would have reacted if Ocon had retaliated and hit him. Would it all change, would they be crying foul?

    1. Well ocon already rammed ver of track, so it’s only a small step for ocon to become fysica. Or does he always need tools to attack people..
      (trying to make the same level of stupid remarks, to no avail I am afraid)

      1. Verstappen ran into Ocon as he has run into many drivers. Verstappen is a loose cannon, exciting to watch but unpredictable and shows poor sportsmanship.

        1. You are a victim of serious reality distortion.. Ocon rammed Verstappen.. nobody denies that fact ( except you)
          Maybe a few close looks at the footage (all over the net) will put your facts straight.
          Even Toto was critical about Ocon last year and his quarrels with Perez, damaging both cars and denying the team costly points. Ocon needs some maturing and his attitude should change on this level. Next year he can take some time to develop further without damaging cars.

  126. Bit disappointed to read this article. It just came across as trashy. Not what I usually expect when reading Racefans.

    Also can’t believe people are calling for a ban just for a bit of shoving. We don’t even know what Ocon was saying while smirking at Max. It’s definitely not good and Max should have been more restrained but it could have been worse. He’s been punished, let him move on and learn from it. He’s still young but he’s been maturing of late with his attitude.

  127. I think VER has been sipping on the Red Bull too much, VER + RB = Road Rage.

    You could put it down to immaturity, maybe he will grow up (with that DNA) maybe not.

    At the pinnacle of this sport extremely embarrassing as the golden boy of RBR.

  128. This article is really the greatest piece of crap I ever read about F1 drivers.

  129. Anyway. Verstappen has now stated that Ocon’s response to the incident, which basically came down to ‘I was faster than you, tough’, was what caused him to start pushing. With that in mind, the push is totally warranted.

  130. I bet Keith would have had his seal of approval on it had it been Hamilton. But Max is not British, so this article was to be predicted.

  131. I can see the smug look on Keith’s face as clearly as in Ocon’s…

    1. Why don’t you go and physically force him to retract his article – that’s the right thing to do if he smiles at you isn’t it.

      1. @sleepywill is there something unresolved bothering you? I’m not supporting MV actions or condemning Keith. Just stating what is obvious in the picture and in the article….

        1. That was what I believe the Brits refer to as a “tongue in cheek” response – I was ridiculing the people above you.

          That being said, no, I don’t think you can judge what someone is thinking or feeling from a cherry picked still of their face in a violent situation, I think you are way off the mark.

  132. Michael (@freelittlebirds)
    13th November 2018, 12:43

    If this were soccer, Verstappen would have been given a red card, possibly more than that. If Max had done that to an official, he would have been out for a really long time. I still remember Ronaldo touching an official and getting a ban for at least 3 games.

    The FIA is definitely inconsistent and I don’t think anyone at this point cares what they say – they have become completely irrelevant as far as the sport goes.

    1. No he wouldn’t for a couple of pushes, don’t be ridiculous. Do you actually watch soccer? Ocon is a player, not an official in your analogy.

      1. Michael (@freelittlebirds)
        14th November 2018, 12:17

        He wouldn’t be red-carded for several pushes? Ronaldo touched a guy’s head a month ago and was red-carded. If he pushed him while they were both running towards the ball, then he wouldn’t be red carded unless it was dangerous… That’s what happened in the race, neither Verstappen nor Ocon were red-carded – they got the equivalent of a yellow card.

  133. What does Max have to do with his father’s actions from the past and perhaps in the future? He also received some genes from his mothers side and not by definition all the bad genes of his father!

    So pathetic to burden that young man with (and hold him indirectly responsible for) his father’s history. Shame on you!

  134. Wowzers. Is this the most commented upon article ever on RaceFans? Just goes to show. Opinion pieces get tongues wagging :)

  135. Interesting that Max admitted that Ocon was lucky his dad Jos wasn’t at the race. And later that Jos acts as his psychologist so he doesn’t need another. Seems like Keith actually hit the nail on the head.

  136. The reference to his fathers’ past is disgusting. Also totally irrelevant. A true shame for a quality site like this. Keith should know better. Deleting this site from my bookmarks.

  137. Ridicoulous article! He wasn’t really violent, he just pushed. Of course he shoudn’t have, but calling for a raceban is way too much. It was not as if Piquet, Senna or Schumacher were banned from hitting another driver. I am getting sick of this SJW shit in this day and age we live in now.

    If so, they should have banned Vettel as well a couple of times for his behaviour in Mexico in 2016, Baku 2017 and even this race, which they didn’t and (if I am correct) was not asked for on this site. So why do now?

  138. i well maybe a professional journalist but even the first sentences are not true.

    FIA stewards deal with rules as written and often do not add interpretations that others might draw. So Esteban Ocon got a penalty because he was the lapped car and should not have crashed into the race leader.

    That’s not why Ocon was penalized. Even Whiting elaborated stating that the fact Max was leader had no effect on the penalty. The complete stewards decision is all over the web, so he (and you) could not missed that.

    “Of course you would expect it to be done safely. But more to the point it should be done cleanly and absolutely without fighting. He shouldn’t be fighting to get past.

    Many considered Ocon’s penalty as rather lenient given the fact that the run-in had involved the race leader, but Whiting said the stewards were rightly not influenced by Verstappen’s status.

    “I don’t think it makes any difference that he was a leader,” he said.

    “It makes it worse in a lot of people’s eyes but as far as the stewards are concerned that doesn’t matter.”

  139. Thank you everyone for your feedback to an opinion piece which has attracted more sharply divided comments than any for quite some time.

    To those who disagree, I’m not going to waste time by trying to tackle each of your answers point-by-point. It isn’t practical and would only involve rewriting much of what is in the article. But, from going through all 450-odd replies so far, I’ve seen a few incorrect readings of the article come up repeatedly which I think it would be helpful to address.

    First, some seem to think I don’t blame Ocon for the collision on track. Although that isn’t really the subject of the article, I did try to address in the second paragraph, though perhaps I should have been more explicit. So let’s clear that up: I don’t think Verstappen was to blame.

    Second, several people have complained about alleged inferences to ‘genetics’, ‘psychology’ and so on in the section on Jos Verstappen. None of this language is used in the article. I am not saying ‘because Jos did X, Max will do Y’. I raised this point solely to ask who is educating Max on the correct way to conduct himself.

    Third, the ‘it was only a push’ (or three pushes) argument, which I only touched on in the article. My case is this: Once you lay hands on someone you have lost control. You don’t know what’s going to happen next. Maybe that person falls over. Maybe that person hits their head. Maybe that person presses charges. In which case, saying ‘I was acting like a real man’ is not a defence. This is why violence demands a zero tolerance response.

    Lastly, I’d like to make a futile attempt to persuade all of those who decided I wrote this because I have it in for Verstappen: You’re way off.

    Like a lot of people I didn’t see him race until he was in F3, and I liked what I saw. I was pleased Red Bull didn’t waste any time getting him into F1 (and thoroughly unimpressed with the knee-jerk regulations brought in to prevent other drivers with his level of experience getting in). I think a lot of the criticism he’s had for his on-track conduct (particularly in 2016) was unfounded and, in some cases, obviously ageist. He’s a terrific driver, he’s quite possibly the star of the next generation of F1, and I’d hate to see his career ruined over a continuation of last weekend’s behaviour.

    That’s why I wrote this.

    1. Fair enough.

      I think the part about Jos was what caused the most comments. You basically wrote three paragraphs on the assumption that Jos Verstappen has not educated Max on the subject and you even added that even if he did, it could be hypocritical. This is an ugly thing to write, and my guess that if Verstappen senior ever found this page he would be right to demand an apology for that.

      As I already wrote, in my opinion this part of the article is just a bad moment in many years’ solid, excellent work. Friendly advice, I would retract that particular part. Keep up the good work, I’m still happy to support Racefans.

      1. Agreed 100% with Iosif.

        Keith’s latest response is fair enough, but I still consider the part of the article about Jos wrong, for the reasons Iosif just mentioned. It’s not forbidden to mention Jos’ name and Jos’ actions in the past. However, the paragraphs in this article go way further than that. Some strong assumptions are made, that are not supported by facts or good reasoning.

        In general I consider the quality of Keith’s work as the same level of a professional reporter from very reputable newspapers. It’s good to realize that even a reputable newspaper can sometimes have a bad moment. If that happens, and a newspaper takes itself seriously, usually they will go and correct the error, or post a rectification.
        It’s not a shame that Keith made an error as well after all those years of excellence. I hope he’d also be willing to correct his error, before moving on with new articles.

      2. Agree with @afonic and Kartman’s well-articulated points, as well as Keith’s first, third and final points (obv. not the second).

        I’m fine with the FIA having given a seemingly lax punishment to Max, which is inline with what has been handed down for other drivers’ behavioural incidents in F1, at least in the interest of consistency. I’m not a fan of setting precedent out of nowhere.

        In line with that, I think the FIA must go away and re-look a code of personal conduct for all participants in their events, define punishments in a clearer manner, and then publish that in all categories of FIA-managed motorsport.

      3. Fully agree with @afonic.

        The main complaint (oftentimes poorly worded) was about the family ties.
        And @keithcollantine, your family statement is contradictory; in the second part you ARE introducing a family cause and effect argument.

        I am not saying ‘because Jos did X, Max will do Y’. I raised this point solely to ask who is educating Max on the correct way to conduct himself.

      4. @afonic – I disagree that it was an ugly thing to write.

        Jos has made some poor choices and even acted reprehensibly at times. It is all well and good to then tell Max, learn from my mistakes. But it doesn’t mean that Max didn’t also learn from watching that poor behavior. Jos was a big deal at one time and for a child to see his father act poorly and succeed at the highest levels of racing, may influence future behavior.

        Might there be other reasons for Max’s actions? Sure. And at the end of the day, as Keith states, Max is responsible for his own actions. However, I do not think that saying exposing a child to poor behavior might lead to repetition of poor behavior is a stretch or something for which Keith would need to apologize.

        1. Michael (@freelittlebirds)
          16th November 2018, 16:11

          @hobo totally in agreement with this and in fact Max’s career choice confirms that his father had a tremendous influence on him. He became a racer and the number of racers is a really tiny percentage compared to jobs like doctors, lawyers. There are fewer stronger role models in a child’s life than their parents.

          I also agree that Keith shouldn’t have to apologize for this.

    2. That’s why I wrote this.

      Thanks for your attempt at justifying your opinion piece. That doesn’t make it any less of a mistake though.
      Btw, did you read Joe Saward’s blog post I referred to in the comment I posted (and which you subsequently deleted)?
      Did you spot the difference between low insinuation and nuanced opinion?

      Just read Joe’s comment again and then admit your “like-father-like-son” slander was out of order and over the top.

    3. Thank you for you reaction, many reactions are explained much better then i could with @afonic and Kartman’s well-articulated points.

      One thing i am not sure people knew this: Jos knows about his own temper and behavior and wanted Max to know this was HIS major mistake and the reason he never came further.

      1. I clearly rember reading about that when Max was starting his F1 career – I think they had a lenghty interview with Jos and Max together @macleod.

        Indeed it seems that this fact – that Jos (and no doubt Max’ mother as well) has explicitly tought him about Jos’ own mistakes, including the anger control with the purpose that Max would not fall in the same pits.

        While I appreciate this reaction from Keith, I would like him to see if he can find that interview back and read it (watch it? Might have been in Dutch), because it is clearly at odds with the assumption made in the original opinion piece about Jos own behaviour making it unlikely, or even hypocritical, to have raised Max to be a better person.

        1. @bascb – I’m not trying to put words in your mouth, but I don’t think it is that simple. Jos was a celebrity/race driver and father to Max (i.e. looked up to) who made a number of poor or very poor decisions and his son saw that. Talking about it with Max is great but it doesn’t mean that Max will simply learn that lesson from words. He also learned by watching actions.

          1. Look @hobo. In the interview I remember reading Jos and Max both talked quite clearly about how Max was very much made aware of the failures of his father and that he had already learned a lot about not making many of the same mistakes.

            That goes way beyond “talking about it with Max” you mention.. I really don’t know what we are arguing here. Off course he has also learned a lot from things like his mother getting a restraining order against his father. That is hardly something you’d miss as a teenager.

          2. @bascb – Others in this thread have stated that Keith was wrong to say that Jos may have been a bad influence, which is essentially what Keith was saying (or how I read it). It seemed to me that you were making a statement somewhat in line with that thinking:

            because [the interview shows] it is clearly at odds with the assumption made in the original opinion piece about Jos own behaviour making it unlikely, or even hypocritical, to have raised Max to be a better person.

            The reasoning for your position seems to be, an interview exists clearly laying out that they have talked about Jos’ mistakes and how Max should not repeat them. Please correct whatever poor assumptions I have made thus far.

            My argument is, Max is repeating some of Jos’ mistakes. Thus, whatever conversations they had did not stop Max from repeating behaviors. Does that necessarily mean that it is Jos’ fault? No. But does it mean that Jox’ influence on a young Max might be showing itself now? It is at least possible, and I happen to think probable.

            So for people (possibly including you, possibly not) to say that Keith’s opinion piece is out of line, needs to be redacted or apologized for, or as you stated “clearly at odds” with what has happened (interview), is in my opinion not fair and does not line up with the facts. Again, this is my opinion.

          3. Well, when I mention how Max’ parents have brought him up explicitly teaching him over the years not to make the same mistakes as his father @hobo, then that is clearly at odds with saying that “surely Jos wouldn’t have been telling him about anger management” (paraphrased what Keith wrote) and your “have talked about it” makes it sound as if they spent 5 minutes with a few lines, instead of years of making aware.

            Were Max repeating Jos Mistakes, he would have actively sought out Ocon and punched him in the face, etc. He clearly seemed to want to not do that, but then Ocon’s somewhat taunting “i was faster” let him lose control of himself enough to start pushing and shoving. So sure, he did lose control, but I think he showed at least some restraint and also got out of it as soon as the FIA officials intervened.

            Honestly, I really don’t know why you are trying to argue this and why with me. I think we should just stop at this moment.

          4. @bascb – Wasn’t trying to have an argument, just a discussion. You are an avid commenter here and seem to make cogent points. Since I was on the other side of the fence, it seemed worth discussing with someone–i.e. you–who would consider both sides. We can agree to disagree and drop it.

  140. Maybe you all should look at the following article (and Keith should resign afterwards preferably).

    1. the daily star? really? I can’t believe I clicked that but what a terrible article, total nonsense.

  141. I read this site most days a week, and had to register just to comment on this “article”. This is not journalism. This borders on tabloidism, and is just plain lazy and bad form for a “professional” writer. I don’t care what your position is on Verstappen, or his father, but this just feels like you have a chip on your shoulder. Consider me a lost reader.

  142. And what are you? No one here is anything. You can’t let him express himself without insults? Sounds like Jos Verstappen /s

  143. One could possibly argue that Ocon caused more (psychological) harm by disrespectfully laughing in Verstappen’s face when he just lost a hardfought victory (thanks to him), than Verstappen did with some (physical) shoving, which I suspect didn’t hurt Ocon much if at all.

    1. Let’s hear this argument then – you can open with your evidence that Tull, Gratz and Chapman’s long accepted and practically demonstrable theories are wrong.

      1. Sounds like the Marx brothers.. Serious.
        If you wanted to look intelligent you need to elaborate. If not.. Theory are just that, special in sociology and psychology.

    2. You have to wonder in all this exactly how fragile Max’s ego is. If all it takes is for Ocon to correctly say “I was faster than you” to make Max implode then Max has got his work cut out for him.

      1. You totally seem to forget the context.
        Looking at interviews verstappen seems a Ver stable and solid character. If you compare that with the obvious frustrated ocon there is a world of difference.

  144. Rufus Matthews
    14th November 2018, 10:50

    This is probably the best article that I have read on the subject although I don’t agree with its conclusion that Max should be banned. I do agree that something should be done to help him manage his anger issues. I think the evidence the punishment his Dad received show that punishment alone does not cure anger problems.

    About the incident itself I felt clearly that Ocon was to blame. To pass round the outside you have to be fully past in turn one to stay in front on the wider line at turn 2. Ocon was not but just kept his foot in and punted Max off the track. He deserved the penalty he got.

    Although Ocon was restrained when he didn’t fight back against Max’s push I don’t agree that Max was the one wanting more. The grinning, the laughing, the unapologetic comments both to Max and to the media said to me that Ocon wanted Max to do more to ensure that Max did get into deeper trouble.

    When I was at school I had anger issues and there were people who found it funny to make me react one because it looked funny and two because they hoped to push me into an action that would get me punished. That is what I saw in Ocon’s action. Even after the 3rd push he was still laughing and grinning as Max walked away. At that point I thought Max was the restrained one. When somebody does you wrong and then laughs in your face it is the most infuriating thing in the world. I recognise that and so did Christian Horner. I think Max did well to walk away at that point.

    Ocon’s complaints about aggression were designed to make people feel sorry but his grinning and his laughing was something I could see through and so I felt no sympathy for him but a lot for Max. Violence isn’t right but neither is inciting it by taking advantage of another persons anger issues to induce actions that will bring punishment. As they have been racing since they were children karting I believe Occon knew exactly what he was doing.

  145. Ocon also got quite correctly a 10 sec stop n go penalty. So one might ask oneself what was behind his sly remark and his furtive smile. If you’d ask me I would answer Ocon was consciously trying to provoke Verstappen and Verstappen naively took the bait.

  146. Correction: Why Verstappen should have been sacked for shoving Ocon

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