Pierre Gasly, Toro Rosso, Interlagos, 2018

Tyres fade after three corners behind another car – Gasly

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In the round-up: Pierre Gasly described how quickly the current Formula 1 tyres lose performance when following another car closely.

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What they say

Drivers met with Pirelli over the weekend in Brazil to give feedback on how to improve the current generation of rubber.

I think it’s been a topic all year about how we can improve, there are many things we can improve but there is clearly one aspect that could improve racing if we had a bit more robust tyres, less sensitive to overheating, will give us an opportunity to follow other cars for longer.

At the moment you do three corners really close from another car, you start sliding, and three degrees of temperature on the tyres and then basically you start to lose performance and then a snowball effect, the temperature keeps increasing and then you are done.

It’s something that Pirelli should focus on, we’ve told them already after they need to respect also what FOM asked them. So I think it’s a topic we discussed many times and probably us drivers should be stronger in our opinion and view and desire of what we need for the future.

Quotes: Dieter Rencken

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Comment of the day

Ferrari were runners-up in the championship again are they any closer to dethroning Mercedes?

I’m not sure Ferrari have the capability of fighting for a world title over a full year – they seem to find inventive ways of shooting themselves in the foot.

The car was clearly good at the beginning of the year, a decent match for the Mercedes but they lost ground due to their own errors and driver error. If it’s true that they took off four months of development to make the car quicker, you could argue they were out-developed by both Mercedes and Red Bull, let alone beaten on strategy more often than not.

Operationally, the team is weaker at strategy and in season development than both Mercedes and Red Bull and that’s what’s cost them more than any mistake Vettel made. To be honest if Honda and Red Bull come together Ferrari will probably wait a lot more years for their next title.
Adam (@Rocketpanda)

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  • 34 comments on “Tyres fade after three corners behind another car – Gasly”

    1. Interesting times at Renault, only 2 hours ago I was reading (autoweek.com) an interview with Stoll proclaiming their progress in their 6 year plan, the latest box ticked being “secure top driver” to further drive competitiveness and provide a benchmark, next being the usual fluff about knowing what’s needed in the engine dept.
      I do hope this hasn’t spoilt DanRic’s Xmas.

      1. Nothing can spoil any day for Dany Ric; he is the only Aussi to have a white Christmas ;)
        @hohum

      2. The latest development by Renault hasn’t been tested on track. According to Gaetan Vigneron (RTBF and usually reliable source), Renault has hit a development plateau this season and had to modify the architecture of the engine to get further development and opening new doors… This had an effect on the second half of the season since teams could not integrate that new configuration engine in the current chassis. Doesn’t seem this information had been relayed much and we get the classic PR from Renault instead.

        I really hope there is something behind it and will not cost them too much in reliability next year.

    2. In order not to annoy you further I will refrain from commenting on the headline. (Even I get bored repeating the bleeding obvious).

      1. @hohum: I will follow you closely. But only for 3 comments. Then I get over-tyred.

        1. @jimmi-cynic – LOL, nice one!

    3. “So we can afford anything as long as it makes sense. Then it’s just a question of value for money and whether it makes sense to spend that, given where we are in the development of our team.”

      This is something I’ve been thinking about for quite some time: Renault is neither Ferrari, nor Mercedes, and the benefits of being a top F1 team for the Renault brand are significantly smaller. That, I believe, is why they stuck with RB for so long, even with Horner badmouthing them at every turn: they could marketing having an ‘World Champion Engine’ and spend relatively little with F1.

      This is also what I feel Zak Brown is banking on: the article mentions that Carlos Ghosn remains skeptical of the spending with Renault’s F1 programme, and only approved it after being given a 5-year deadline to Renault being a top team (and, apparently, simply ‘Best of the Rest’ won’t do here), which runs up at the end of 2020, or just before the introduction of the new engine regulations. And if Renault can’t get close to Ferrari or Mercedes by 2020, who is the prime candidate for being the works team for the new and revised Renault engine in 2021?? Brown’s McLaren, of course…

      1. the benefits of being a top F1 team for the Renault brand are significantly smaller

        @arrows98 – interesting comment. My thoughts probably go the other way – Renault probably stand to gain more from the halo of F1 success than Ferrari or Mercedes. The latter two will have their buyers (and loyalists) irrespective of how they perform in F1, such is the strength of those marques.

        On the other hand, Renault make mass-market cars, and I’d think that – with a well-managed marketing campaign – they can benefit from the trickle-down halo of F1 successes. Of course, that leads to the chicken-and-egg dilemma that achieving those successes requires a higher investment!

      2. Just to add, you make an interesting point about Zak’s exit strategy for McLaren, where they revert back to being a de facto works team.

      3. @arrows98 Interesting comment and I agree with you.

    4. It’s something that Pirelli should focus on, we’ve told them already after they need to respect also what FOM asked them.

      Why are the drivers/teams complaining directly to Pirelli? Why aren’t they engaging with Brawn? Surely he and his technical team understand the issue, and can better direct Pirelli? Liberty made the smart decision of hiring Brawn, and I think the drivers and teams need to also utilize his presence (and the influence he wields) more. Moreover, it would also make Liberty/FOM more directly accountable for the outcome.

      1. @phylyp: Why stop at Brawn? Call Bernie! He started it.

        On the other kook’s hand…. is this Pirelli’s way to spell “Arrivederci, sport rovinato” on a sidewall of kimchi pasta?

      2. @phylyp From much that has been published on this topic, Pirelli deserves some criticism not for doing what BE asked them to do, but for the way Pirelli has gone about it. Why assume the drivers and teams aren’t engaging with Brawn too? I’m sure tires is a massive topic daily for F1 overall. After all, they must change them at some point if Liberty wants cars following closely. They simply will never see their plans through if they were somehow forced to have the terrible tires as they now have. I hope and expect that Brawn has Pirelli heading in a direction of tread wear deg rather than temp deg.

    5. If we look at things holistically, you’d put your money on Lewis matching Schumacher’s record of 7 titles and 91 wins at the end of 2020.

      Merc will be ahead next year. At this stage, there is very little to suggest otherwise. Ferrari may start the car with a strong car, but will inevitably wilt. Remember that next year, Vettel will have Leclerc to contend with, who doesn’t look like an obedient number 2, while at Merc, it will be status quo. This could potentially lead to Seb losing points to his team mate. On the flip side, who is to say that Leclerc won’t comprehensively outperform Vettel?

      On the Red Bull front, its quite hard to read at this point. We’ve heard all this talk about Honda doing this and that in the past, but to what avail? No doubt that Mclaren were part of the problem, but how soon before Red Bull start mouthing off Honda after a few issues at the start of 2019? Even if Honda do deliver a decent PU, it doesn’t look like Gasly is going to Red Bull to become Max’s number 2, so expect fireworks there.

      Essentially, the point is that Lewis is in his happy place at Merc, which results in him being unassailable should everything go well. With little to worry about from the other side of the garage (sorry Bottas fans, we should accept the facts, he isn’t going to beat Lewis over a season), and apart of the highly unlikely scenario that Merc design an absolute dog, Lewis will win 2019, and possibly 2020 as well.

      Even if Merc win the title, I expect an exciting season next year. There will be a lot of tension at both Red Bull and Ferrari, which could lead to some unexpected results, perhaps The Hulk will break his podium hoodoo?

      1. HansieSlim (@)
        16th November 2018, 7:43

        I cannot agree more with you on Red bull Racing. The apparent self righteous and complaining nature of Horner and Marko may become problematic for Honda. Last year when they were less competitive they repeatedly threatened to leave F1 and just complained in general which I found very unprofessional and disheartening.

        I am also not sure how Max and Pierrre will get along.

        Anyway, we can only hope they are competitive next year.

        1. Pierre and Max are friends chilling and gaming a lot with each other. So i think they get along very well and both doesn’t like Ocon…

        2. When you look at Renault’s game plan (I.e. do things at their own pace) and you look at their abysmal efforts in 2015/2016 I have no problem at all with RBR having a lot to say.

          I seriously doubt they’ll be all that hard on Honda PROVIDING Honda show that they will invest time, effort and money into improving their PU at an adequate rate. Renault made little to no effort, Honda are pulling out all stops.

          Seriously, what should Horner & Marko have done? Meekly shrug their shoulders and say “oh well they’re doing their best” when it was clear that Renault weren’t.

          Before we get into a slanging match about what they’ll do next year, let’s see how things turn out.

          The article about Renault is a bit sobering, they keep hoping that Liberty/FIA will step in and make rules that will help them. Poor Daniel – I’d hoped that things were in train to beef up the PU and their car development but it’s not looking all that likely.

          1. @dbradock – Daniel, poor? Not really. He has 60 million reasons to motivate that beaming smile.

      2. If we look at things holistically, you’d put your money on Lewis matching Schumacher’s record of 7 titles and 91 wins at the end of 2020.

        I think that’s a fair assessment of things. But I’d also suggest that Mercedes will withdraw at the end of 2020 having won the WCC seven times in a row – one more than Ferrari, and before the changes due for 2021. There would be nothing else for MB to prove, and plenty of resources to save.

      3. It could also mean having a number 2 driver that is more consistent than kimi and is able to beat bottas, that’s been sebs problem since day one 2015, kimi is usually nowhere, this is the best season of kimi and is like one or 3 or 4 circuit he been driving good …. Out of 20 or 21… The other problem Seb has is arrivabene, I don’t care if is kimi seb or Leclerc.. mid season? If one of your driver that is loosing for quite a margins then he should become the butler, like bottas.. arrivabene cannot process that.. he should be gone, we need someone that has guts like toto or horner..

    6. Pat Ruadh (@fullcoursecaution)
      16th November 2018, 8:35

      Yay it’s Macau time again!
      I’m disappointed Lando didn’t head back for a another bite but nonetheless with Ticktum, Illot, and Schumacher all in the mix for it’s set up for another classic (probably a precession then!).
      Intrigued to see if Mick can emulate his father and uncle and take the crown.

    7. Mark Hughes almost always considers what he writes and this story on Renault was no different.
      I love this comment as I do think it sums up the situation perfectly. “Renault is trying to fly first-class but paying cattle-class rates”

      However, I think one thing has been overlooked here. Budget caps. I know this is a when, how much and what if. But we are led to believe that in 2021, there will be budget caps. You might say so what?

      The minute budget caps are announced, all of the staff at RB, Merc and Ferrari are going to be on edge. They will each have to cut 75+ staff I guess and it might be more. On top of that, even the people kept there will have to contend with budget cuts to their department. For example, before they might have been allowed to do 100 days of wind tunnel testing, but now it will be 75 days. So even the people kept on will be going backwards and getting frustrated. And they will all be wondering if there are more cuts.

      Has anyone ever worked for a company where the axe is hanging over your head.
      – When am I going to get the tap on the shoulder?
      – Is my mate going to be sacked?.
      – I just spent 3 years fighting for more budget for my department but am I about to lose it again and take a backwards step?
      – Will there be a second round of sackings?
      – We are going backwards as a company.

      It will be a massive thing to deal with for these 3 companies. Morale will most likely be very hard to control. I have run my own company for 15 years and I have had good times and bad. I can assure you that when the axe is hanging over peoples heads, little niggles become big niggles. Productivity drops and morale dives.

      Ferrari, RB and Merc are great companies and RB and Merc have great leaders. So they will find a way to make the changes. But every day of the week, I would bet on a company that stayed static and kept their staff over a company that just slashed 20% of it’s workforce.

      Soon everyone might be flying Cattle Class (Relatively speaking). But I bet the people who complaint the most are the ones that used to fly First Class. Everyone else is used to it and they are laughing at the rich boys who now have to slum it with them. Their morale probably increases!

      I have read an article where Abitebul talked about them being at the budget cap limit now. I have also read Horner talking about how they will need to be sensitive about the budget caps and was cautioning (pressuring) the F1 rule makers. Maybe I was reading between the lines, but it certainly seemed like Abiteboul has an eye on the future budget cap. Maybe Renault could find a further $100M to dump into the team. But to what end? You probably only have to cut that investment back out in 2 years anyway, so why bother? You only create your own headache for no immediate gain.

      Renault need some kind of competitive advantage. Dumping money into the system won’t get them there before 2021. They just can’t gain that kind of ground in 2 years. Honda has been dumping money into their engines for years and so far they have no result. They may get a result in 2020. Just before the rules change… Maybe the competitive advantage comes for Renault by them not increasing their budget and having an eye on 2021. All that falls apart if the budget caps don’t come in though.

      All I will say is that F1 is a complex beast. What you see on the surface isn’t always the real motives of the players involved. It pays to dig a little deeper.

      1. Very nice point there, @mickharrold !

        Has any clarity been offered as to how the budget cap will be enforced for works teams? i.e. keeping the engine bits out of the cap. If so, that is an area that Renault can go big right away, especially with that being their weakest link, and with RBR having left the fold. As you rightly say, the constructor part of Renault can work roughly to the budget cap (e.g. use the budget cap to determine headcount levels, but for 2019/2020 go no-holds-barred on processes that are expensive).

        Ferrari, RB and Merc are great companies and RB and Merc have great leaders

        You had me chuckling there at how there’s a team missing in the second part of that sentence :)

        1. That is the whole thing isn’t it. No-one really knows what is going to happen. I think everyone is resigned to the fact that there will be change with even Ferrari supporting it recently But what and how much? Oh and when? 2021 is the date, but will that be the finished article? Probably not from what I can read.

          It’s going to be massively hard for the Big 3 and I feel sorry for them and especially their employees. There are real people effected by this decision. I think it is the right choice though if it can be policed properly. It probably can’t but even a half decent budget cap would help as it will still hobble the top teams and won’t effect everyone else.

          Assuming Renault actually have an eye on this, it’s still a big gamble from them. But given even with money they can’t catch the Big 3 in the short term. So, it’s probably a gamble worth taking.

          I like to put myself in others shoes to see how I would think if I was them. And right now, If I was Abiteboul (or more importantly, His bosses), I would definitely have an eye on the budget caps. If Abiteboul gets more money and then needs to cut it again, it creates a headache for him. But for his bosses though, the reasoning is even simpler. Save $100M per year. Simple.

          But all this only makes sense if you really think the budget caps are coming. If they don’t, then you look like a fool and even your smaller investment isn’t worth it because you might get overtaken by McLaren and drop further down the order which would be embarrassing for a works team.

          P.S. I wasn’t sure if anyone would catch my joke about Ferrari leadership. But on a sad note, I do feel sorry for them. Sergio Marchionne had the hallmarks of a great leader. His death was tragic for everyone.

          1. I currently work for a company which did employ 600 on site and had to cut ~120 jobs in one go when we had a takeover and just want to say I agree emphatically with your point about dropping morale and issues that were not present before! Even the people that keep their jobs have their own opinions about their colleagues, who “should” have gone instead of who, nobody can accept responsibility and learn as they fear the axe if they do, knives are out constantly. It’s a nightmare!

      2. this is a really interesting comment @mickharrold

        personally, if I were Renault, I wouldn’t bet on just morale to turn the tides around, but I also didn’t realized that they might be better positioned than the Big 3 to deal with an incoming budget cap. besides, this is a business side of F1 doesn’t get lots of coverage (for obvious reasons!) but it’s really fun to speculate what’s going on…

    8. Fun times, Hamilton going for all time records?

      He needs just two more flawless seasons like this year and he can become G.O.A.T..

      Which is super hard, but Considering last 5 seasons, there is a fairly good chance he can do 2 more good ones.

    9. Even if the tyres were less sensitive to over-heating, it still wouldn’t make too much difference to the overall situation concerning the ability to follow another car closely. The aero is the real problem, not the tyres itself.
      – I agree with the COTD.

      1. @jerejj, YES BUT, the drivers could at least have a go if it wasn’t going to ruin their tyres and strategy.

    10. COTD :D

      #blessed, #samurai

    11. How did everyone miss the real big story in the news above? Tatiana’s going to drive a Sauber from 6 years ago. Ferrari may be watching very carefully. After all, Vettel may retire in the near future?

      1. @MaliceCooper 2013 car (C32) actually.

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