Williams pair Kubica and Russell “really strong” – Norris

39 comments on “Williams pair Kubica and Russell “really strong” – Norris”

1. 

   @HoHum (@hohum)
   29th November 2018, 0:49

   On Williams: Frank always said it was 95% car and 5% driver that won races, I’m sure it also applies to losing races too.
   –
   On COTD, not only do pitstops not automatically make for better racing, I’m sure they definitely make for worse racing.
   1. 

      Miani (@miani)
      29th November 2018, 2:37

      The problem is that 5% is bigger than the gap between the first and the last driver in a qualify.
      1. 

         Exediron (@exediron)
         29th November 2018, 6:09

         That would be 5% of the difference, not 5% of the time. There’s a certain baseline that any car built to F1 specifications will achieve – beyond that is where the differences are made by a better car or a better driver.

         Applying the 95/5 assumptions to Abu Dhabi qualifying, out of the 3.888 second gap between Hamilton and Stroll, 3.693 was the car and 0.194 was Hamilton. That sounds a bit low to me, to be honest. I think the truth is closer to 80/20, with Mercedes being 3.1 seconds faster than Williams and Hamilton more like 0.77 seconds faster than Stroll.
         1. 

            anon
            29th November 2018, 8:02

            @exediron, the expression wasn’t meant to be taken as a literal statement of fact, but was intended to illustrate the point that Frank Williams was trying to make – that the car is far more important than the driver, and the performance of the team is mostly bound up in that of the car that they produce.

            It was why Williams took the attitude, especially in the 1990s when they had such dominant cars, that they were the ones who made a driver what he was – they could make a driver into a champion, and therefore the driver was little more than a disposable asset that could be thrown out at will (which was why he supposedly made the quip about drivers being like lightbulbs – you just took one out and put another one in).

            Trying to assign a clear cut percentage is questionable, if not likely to be impossible given that, in reality, there will be so many variables that the public cannot judge for themselves.
         2. 

            greasemonkey
            29th November 2018, 11:02

            Although the concept is itself flawed, if you apply it, I do think 95/5 matches closer than 80/20. Fans might wish it were 80/20, but observations I’ve had the privilege of experiencing say otherwise.

            I was at a simulation event where there was a top tier GT driver, an ex-F1 driver, 2 GRC drivers, and an IndyCar driver. There were also hardcore sim enthusiasts and hot shoe local karters.

            Two observations…the drivers sort of “known” to be better, did in fact have the best times. The ex-F1, GRC, and GT driver were the fastest. This shows that this particular simulation used correlates well to what we think real life racing skill is.

            The other observation is that the competent drivers were very close together in laptime. On a roughly 70s second track, the fastest driver was about 0.3s faster than half the others. (I cannot compare to slowest half, because there were also casual gamers present, who were used to game-y techniques, and were very slow). But the observation means that a single setting, on a spec car, with maybe 40 drivers, 20 of them were within 0.3s of elite.

            Stroll is still an experienced competent F1 driver. He comparable, at worst, to the top handful of drivers at that event. Maybe 0.1-0.2s slower than optimum I’d guess.

            So more like 95/5. (as flawed as that model is)

            Superhero fans may not like that. But there it is.
            1. 

               Jason (@jmwalley)
               29th November 2018, 14:36

               While the expression may not have been intended to be taken literally, I think an average person can also recognize there is a bit of truth in every joke.

               @exediron and @greasemonkey, I think you both have used a great amount of logic and consideration in your analysis and I think it proves useful. I’d love to see a statsman like Sean Kelly take a crack at this sort of thing as I find it rather insightful and hopefully their knowledge would exceed our own.
2. 

   @HoHum (@hohum)
   29th November 2018, 0:51

   Happy birthday @prisoner-monkeys, not heard from you in a while.
   1. 

      ColdFly (@)
      29th November 2018, 9:41

      Probably lost his password; he hasn’t been active for 5 years ;)
      1. 

         Phylyp (@phylyp)
         29th November 2018, 9:47

         Or he’s been – well – imprisoned by monkeys, you know?
         1. 

            Aldoid
            29th November 2018, 19:22

            Or he’s always been incarcerated, but eventually became the inmate who upset the wrong primate, that incidentally had the power to revoke his internet privileges…
3. 

   Theo (@theodorium)
   29th November 2018, 1:05

   “Todt slams German F1 broadcaster (Wheels 24)”
   I started watching in 1996 on RTL and it was like that then, and nothing changed in 20+ years. Ridiculous they noticed it just now.
   1. 

      Sven (@crammond)
      29th November 2018, 6:21

      RTL is the kind of legal free-to-air broadcaster that makes people watch wonky streams in foreign languages, just because it has always been so bad.
      1. 

         NasiBoring (@nasiboring)
         29th November 2018, 6:48

         so true!
   2. 

      ColdFly (@)
      29th November 2018, 14:24

      We cannot understand why the FIA president criticises us, given that only two years ago we were given broadcaster of the year in the FIA Gala,” RTL’s sports boss Manfred Loppe hit back at Todt.

      Todt’s left earlobe doesn’t know what his small toe is doing ;)

      And Mr Todt, how do you think FTA broadcasters can pay for the enormous fees which your predecessor and Bernie concocted through their monopoly and extortionate-like behaviour?
4. 

   Jimmi Cynic (@jimmi-cynic)
   29th November 2018, 1:31

   The Verdict ‘article’ was pure infomercial for Pure Storage. No insight, just marketing drek. Some PR flak is getting a Xmas bonus this year tho.
5. 

   Arnold Triyudho Wardono (@ernietheracefan)
   29th November 2018, 2:52

   You mean Monzahara Desert..
   1. 

      Euro Brun (@eurobrun)
      29th November 2018, 7:09

      Considering the desert is the only place with infinite run off and zero barriers, while this is cool, it would have been so much greater to recreate pre-chicane monza!
6. 

   Sham (@sham)
   29th November 2018, 5:28

   I’m in absolute agreement with the Instagram post from Pippa Mann.

   Formula W is a terrible idea as far as helping women into the top tiers of Motorsport is concerned.

   I just don’t understand how any educated person can think that’s the way to spend money to help, instead of of simply backing the drivers individually and developing the talent in exactly the same way they would a male driver.
   1. 

      rsp123 (@rsp123)
      29th November 2018, 9:34

      Couldn’t agree more. Well said.
   2. 

      greasemonkey
      29th November 2018, 11:11

      Could be worse. California is legislating counter sexism (which is itself sexism), which only serves to undermine the credibility of women succeeding on merit.

      https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-california-board-women/california-state-law-mandates-female-board-directors-by-2019-idUKKCN1MB172
   3. 

      kpcart
      29th November 2018, 15:54

      In not in agreement with pippa, and nor are many feminists… For 1 reason, this W series might actually propel women to join male owned race series 8n higher lever. In a climate of oppression, the oppressed need help to close the gap, this series is doing that, and a lot of women want pippa to see that, unfortunately pippa is tarnished by racing in an era where sexism is rife… She is hurt by living the oppressed life in a male orientate field. Yet, she is a legend.
7. 

   GtisBetter (@)
   29th November 2018, 7:03

   Sorry to break it to you Pippa, but there already is a segregation, one based on skill. We have people like Vandoorne and Ocon, immensly talented people leaving f1. I haven’t come across a woman close to that level recently. They might be out there, but they aren’t getting the opportunity. You can be proud, or realistic. The reality is that sponsors are hard to come by and they either choose safe (the fastest) or PR. But often connections, or parents, are even more important. If you want to break the cycle, you sometimes have to do unpopulair things. I agree with many that it’s not the ideal way, but at least they are working on a solution. As a starting point it should suffice and maybe it can grow or even be obsolete in the future.
   1. 

      nase
      29th November 2018, 10:40

      @passingisoverrated
      If you insist on breaking important news to Pippa Mann, please do us all a favour and consult a dictionary on the meaning of the word ‘segregation’ beforehand. Hint: ‘segregation by skill’ is semantically impossible.
      1. 

         l1v1u5
         29th November 2018, 15:51

         Hint: ‘segregation by skill’ is semantically impossible.

         Please explain … ; english is not my first language.
      2. 

         Craig Glynn
         29th November 2018, 22:56

         I’m not jumping into a FW debate BUT…segregation by skill is not semantically impossible by any stretch of the imagination (or English language). To segregate is to set something or someone apart from others. The criterion by which you achieve the segregation can be based on potentially anything at all. It could be hair colour, sex, ability to solve a Rubik’s cube or indeed skill at driving.
8. 

   Jere (@jerejj)
   29th November 2018, 10:13

   Should the real-Monza get axed from F1 in the near-future then why not go racing to the re-created desert-version of the circuit?
   – Cool helmet design for Sainz.
   – Todt, LOL.
   – I wonder which company it is that has contributed to the success of Mercedes in F1.
   – I agree with the COTD.
   1. 

      Jere (@jerejj)
      29th November 2018, 10:17

      I forgot to add: But, still, the primary reason they finished behind Mclaren was the nullification of the points achieved in the first twelve races. Mclaren was lucky that happened, and so were Haas and even Renault. RPFI would’ve finished ahead of all these three had it not been for the nullified points ahead of the Belgian GP.
      1. 

         nase
         29th November 2018, 10:31

         @jerejj

         Mclaren was lucky that happened, and so were Haas and even Renault. RPFI would’ve finished ahead of all these three had it not been for the nullified points ahead of the Belgian GP.

         Ffs, no.
         Verifying that fact is literally as easy as 1-2-3. It is absolutely beyond me how anyone can keep getting this wrong …
         Points scored by Sahara Force India (AUS-HUN): 59, points scored by Race Point Force India (BEL-UAE): 52. 59+52=111.
         Points scored by Renault (AUS-UAE): 122.

         122>111

         Renault were not lucky Force India’s points were deleted. They outscored them either way.
         1. 

            GeeMac (@geemac)
            29th November 2018, 11:13

            @nase It is strange how that “fact” has taken sucha firm hold in people’s minds when it is categorically false. I suppose it is a sign of the times…
         2. 

            Jere (@jerejj)
            29th November 2018, 16:34

            @nase @geemac @bakano Yes, I might have miscalculated it a bit, so correction: Haas and Mclaren were lucky. RPFI would’ve finished ahead of them had it not been for the nullification of the points achieved in the first twelve rounds. The previous time (and that was a few races ago) I calculated that RPFI would now be ahead of Renault had the points not been taken away from them during the season, but apparently, the situation had changed within the remaining races.
      2. 

         BaKano (@bakano)
         29th November 2018, 15:56

         @jerejj

         @nase already replied to you but there is also another easy way to check the total points of the team, without having to search for the points before Force India was replaced by Racing Point Force India. Just add the points of the 2 drivers as they kept them (only the constructor points were removed).
      3. 

         BMF66
         29th November 2018, 21:43

         @jerejj

         Nonsense at its worst.

         There’s no reason to it. McLaren finished ahead because Force India are poor and went bust. McLaren, although they have their own issues, didn’t go bust because they are not poor.

         It’s part of the sport, obviously you haven’t noticed yet.
   2. 

      Euro Brun (@eurobrun)
      29th November 2018, 11:46

      Should the real-Monza get axed from F1 in the near-future then why not go racing to the re-created desert-version of the circuit?

      God no, think of the tryres!
   3. 

      ColdFly (@)
      29th November 2018, 14:35

      – I wonder which company it is that has contributed to the success of Mercedes in F1.

      I wonder why an unknown person of that unknown person should be included in the social media wrap up.
      @jerejj
9. 

   MaliceCooper
   29th November 2018, 13:22

   Lando is already setting up the alibi for when he gets beaten by Williams next year.
   Also, Saharan GP confirmed?
   1. 

      Jere (@jerejj)
      29th November 2018, 16:35

      MaliceCooper ”Also, Saharan GP confirmed?” – No, LOL.
10. 

    Mick
    29th November 2018, 13:42

    Actually women can now compete in F1 (or any other racing series they please) and they have thier own very exclusive club with the formation of this W series, where no men are allowed!
11. 

    rpiian (@rpiian)
    29th November 2018, 13:45

    I concur about the Williams line-up. So excite!
12. 

    Dobb
    29th November 2018, 20:42

    No doubt Kubica will be excellent!

    Recently been watching some videos from 2007-2011 and reminded how aggressive and agile those cars were and how good he was wrestling them around.

    Todays cars look like lumbering Cadillacs in comparison!

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