Max Verstappen and Romain Grosjean have collected more penalty points than any other Formula 1 driver since they were introduced.
The penalty points system has been in use for the past five seasons. In that time, 13 drivers have accumulated 10 or more. Among them is Pastor Maldonado, who hasn’t started an F1 race since 2015.No driver has yet reached 12 points within a 12-month period, which would lead to an automatic ban. Verstappen and Grosjean both ended the year on seven penalty points, but have accumulated career totals of 19.
Both drivers have criticised F1’s penalty points system. “I hate these stupid penalty points,” said Verstappen in Austin. “Maybe you deserve a penalty, but it’s not that bad that you deserve a penalty point. For me that’s a bit out of proportion.”
In response to Verstappen’s criticism of the penalty points, FIA race director Charlie Whiting said they are “there to make a habitual offender take notice.”
Grosjean said many of the incidents for which he received penalty points should not have been penalised. The points system was introduced after Grosjean was banned for triggering a crash at the start of the 2012 Belgian Grand Prix.
“Penalty points are not a penalty,” Whiting pointed out. “They are just there to track a driver’s record.
“They’re completely separate. When you have a penalty you always get a penalty point. Except for a reprimand, you don’t get penalty points for reprimands. I know some people are a bit confused [but] applying points is not a penalty as such.”
F1 stewards have handed out a total of 287 penalty points since they were introduced, an average of 2.87 per race weekend. Two drivers ended 2018 with clean licences: Lewis Hamilton and Charles Leclerc.
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Tango (@tango)
3rd December 2018, 12:21
“Verstappen and Grosjean lead F1’s penalty points table”
You don’t say ? :D
Nitzo (@webtel)
3rd December 2018, 12:57
Was going through the chart and had a eureka moment when i saw Pastor Maldonado’s name !!
Phylyp (@phylyp)
3rd December 2018, 12:29
On mobile, I can’t see alternate drivers names in the chart (e.g. who’s between Ocon and Kimi). Pinching to zoom had no effect as well.
Phylyp (@phylyp)
3rd December 2018, 12:30
Hm, tapping individual bars shows a little popup caption, as a workaround.
Godwin
3rd December 2018, 12:48
Edit Button Needed.
Ruben (@stranceloll)
3rd December 2018, 12:34
Max “He’s not the messiah, he’s a very naughty boy” Verstappen
John Mitchell
4th December 2018, 0:26
I totally agree.
McBosch
3rd December 2018, 12:36
This leaves room for double jeopardy: you can only get a penalty point for something you’ve received a penalty for, but at the same time the cumulation of penalty-points (which by no means is an offence in itself) can lead to a separate penalty, which is harsh in my opinion.
drmouse (@drmouse)
3rd December 2018, 12:43
I disagree.
If you get a penalty for an incident, it is for that 1, specific incident.
If you get a race ban from too many penalty points, you are being penalised for habitually offending. You are not being penalised a second time for the same infringement: if you hadn’t committed all the other infringements before that one there would be no additional penalty.
Phylyp (@phylyp)
3rd December 2018, 13:02
Well said, @drmouse
Aldoid
3rd December 2018, 14:10
Exactly. The only way to accumulate the enough penalty points for a race ban is by being a repeat offender… and if you repeatedly get involved in incidents that warrant penalties, you deserve to cool your heels for a bit. That these two are the only ones complaining about it is no surprise whatsoever. Sometimes I swear they must be card carrying members of the Church of Maldonado.
Ben Needham (@ben-n)
3rd December 2018, 13:34
I think the system is logical. If you refer to the yellow card system in many other sports (most famously, football), it’s very similar; namely the second yellow card. A participant has committed an offence which is not bad enough in isolation for exclusion, but paired with an equally questionable offence, warrants dismissal. The same is true in Formula One, but the drivers get more breathing space.
I would argue that certain deliberate or careless actions deserve a higher points punishment. See Vettel at Baku 2017, or Grosjean at Spain 2018 for two examples of this.
I don’t think that any driver has been so poor or dangerous that they have earned a spell on the sidelines and I’m glad the limit is as high as it is. Bringing it lower would lead to drivers being more cautious so as not to end up with a ban.
McBosch
3rd December 2018, 14:24
I don’t completely agree with you: a reprimand is more like a yellow card (cause it’s more of a warning, instead of a penalty), but you can accumulate as many reprimands as you want, but you still won’t get a penalty (red card).
A penalty point is given when a penalty was already enforced.
Ben Needham (@ben-n)
3rd December 2018, 15:00
Actually – I believe the football comparison is valid. Many football competitions ban a player if they have had a certain number of yellow cards over the course of the tournament. For example; in the English Premier League, a player receiving five yellow cards before the mid-way point of the season will be subject to a match ban. This is very similar to the situation in F1 currently.
Jon
3rd December 2018, 15:00
In the English football Premier League if you get 5 yellow cards in the first 19 games you get a 1 game ban. Further two-match ban if 10 yellow cards received before 32 fixtures. Further three-match ban if 15 yellows received (no fixture limit)
So a very similar system to the penalty points in F1.
tonyyeb (@tonyyeb)
3rd December 2018, 13:48
Hamilton may have finished the season without any penalty points but he did get two reprimands. Still not sure why they have penalty points and reprimands?
Sonics (@sonicslv)
3rd December 2018, 14:40
@tonyyeb While both are similar at a glance, penalty is geared toward unsportsmanlike conduct. Generally something that given obvious immediate advantage or disadvantage to its victim(s). Reprimand on the other hand is more toward administrative / regulation breach. Driving related reprimands usually doesn’t involve other drivers and any advantage gained by the offender is minor or questionable.
tonyyeb (@tonyyeb)
3rd December 2018, 15:01
@sonicslv That makes sense but then the punishment for three reprimands is a 10 place grid drop? Doesn’t seem to me that the punishment fits the crime.
Martin
3rd December 2018, 22:38
Only if 2 of those are for driving offenses.
tonyyeb (@tonyyeb)
4th December 2018, 8:26
Jeez, more complication!!
Sonics (@sonicslv)
4th December 2018, 3:48
@tonyyeb It’s still designed to punish repeat offenders. Besides you need to has at least 2 driving reprimand for the grid penalty and reprimand itself doesn’t actually punish the offender. I think it’s quite fair if you think the grid drop is just cumulative penalty.
Balue (@balue)
3rd December 2018, 14:32
I bet just like the fans, stewards too have someone they like to pick on and Grosjean got the role after Maldonado. I also guess they will be less hard on Verstappen should he join the championship fight and become upper class.
Ben Needham (@ben-n)
3rd December 2018, 15:26
I can’t argue with any of the points Grosjean has received; in fact I would have advocated more points for some of the misdemeanours he committed (Spain 2018).
RP (@slotopen)
3rd December 2018, 17:21
@balue
@ben-n
I would have argued for more penalties for Verstappen too.
I believe the steward’s rotate, with permanent staff like Charlie Whiting influencing but not controlling. So it isn’t a set group with set favorites.
Regardless, it does appear there is deference to top drivers.
Jere (@jerejj)
3rd December 2018, 14:35
How surprising.
Dutchguy (@justarandomdutchguy)
3rd December 2018, 16:14
Whelp, no surprise here.
3rd is more of a surprise to me. had expected KMag to be amongst the main offenders
John Mitchell
4th December 2018, 0:32
It looks like Daniel Riccardio was also “clean”