2020 F1 calendar unlikely to be shorter than 21 races – Carey

32 comments on “2020 F1 calendar unlikely to be shorter than 21 races – Carey”

1. 

   Phylyp (@phylyp)
   11th March 2019, 0:06

   Am I reading too much into it, or was that quite a passive-aggressive tweet by Mallya?
   1. 

      Sundar Srinivas Harish (@sundark)
      11th March 2019, 1:12

      I’d expect the person who owned some of the personal effects of Mahatma Gandhi to be well versed in the Gandhian methods of protest.
   2. 

      GeeMac (@geemac)
      11th March 2019, 8:50

      No, it’s definitely passive aggressive. I read it as follows:

      “So you all think Force India had no cash with me at the helm. Despite that it managed to finish 4th in 2016 and 2017, so with Stroll’s billions if they are any worse than 4th in 2019 they’ve failed.”
      1. 

         Phylyp (@phylyp)
         11th March 2019, 9:19

         @geemac – yeah, that’s pretty much what I took away from it as well. :)
         1. 

            tonyyeb (@tonyyeb)
            11th March 2019, 9:52

            @geemac I agree, that’s how I read it.
      2. 

         Sonny Crockett
         11th March 2019, 10:08

         I read it like that too.

         To be fair, he’s right!
         1. 

            Phylyp (@phylyp)
            11th March 2019, 11:38

            Is he right, though? Let’s set aside the likelihood that Stroll (and the alliance) are only going to put in reasonable but not excessive amount of funding into the team (i.e. unlikely they’re going to suddenly exceed RBR on budget, but they will ensure a steady stream of income), and let us for a moment assume that Stroll can put in how much ever he wishes.

            If a team’s budget increases by 50% or so, I can fully understand how a team can effectively use that additional money in areas where they were forced to triage previously (e.g. physically manufacture and test 3 front wing concepts instead of just 2).

            On the other hand, if a team’s budget increases by 2-3x or more, just because that team has the funds to now physically manufacture and ship 10 front wing concepts it doesn’t mean that doing so is the best approach – you’d still want to whittle that down to the 2-3 designs you actually sent to a track for FP. And to whittle that down, you would want to have a more robust CFD modelling approach, which means hiring, equipment purchase, configuration of models, etc.

            Therefore, to effectively use the additional funding, it will require an overhaul of their structure & staff, processes, and operations. And that is something that will take time to come to fruition, I wouldn’t expect to see results for some time. Look back at the number of years it took Mercedes to come good in the V8 era after they re-entered the sport in 2010, even after picking up a capable team + Brawn.

            An analogy – if our income increases by 25%, there will be a bunch of things that we can put that added money towards, things we’ve been putting off or deferring. On the other hand, if our income is suddenly going to double and we’re asked to spend all of it meaningfully, it will be hard to do so initially (it will be very easy to burn through the money meaninglessly, though). It will take time and effort to identify sensible avenues of investment, do due diligence, etc.
            1. 

               Phylyp (@phylyp)
               11th March 2019, 11:39

               Ugh, that turned out to be a far longer comment than I intended. :(
            2. 

               BasCB (@bascb)
               11th March 2019, 13:49

               I am pretty sure that one of the things that Stroll liked seeing from FI, and part of the reason why he plunged in was that this team is known for being able to do great things within the constrained budget available @phylyp.
               So they bought it feeling safe that regularly putting in about the same the team had already been working on, but this time without the months where they were anxiously waiting for the go ahead on an up front payment from FOM etc (more or less every year for the last 4 years) to be able to pay the suppliers to get the parts to the track in time, when they put in just a tad extra (maybe 10-20%) to allow some updates that got hampered before by lack of money to go for it, they have a solid chance of being at Renault/Haas/AlfaRomeo level.

               Provided their drivers both match the car.
      3. 

         BasCB (@bascb)
         11th March 2019, 13:44

         YEah, that is my impression from it as well.
   3. 

      Alianora La Canta (@alianora-la-canta)
      11th March 2019, 20:09

      Passive-agressive – against Vijay’s detractors.

      I think the timing is significant. Vijay didn’t want to say anything while it was likely he would be disproven straight away (while regular podiums are theoretically possible, it won’t be until mid-2019 at the very earliest, when his detractors will have forgotten this exchange in favour of later comments). What he’s trying to suggest is that the fact it got to 4th despite low money proves that a) the team had *some* money coming in (otherwise it would have been declared “out of money” back then rather than in 2018), b) he did a good job of managing the team in non-financial respects, proven by repeated success and c) he helped get the right people interested in buying the team because he thinks the new leaders will build on the foundation Vijay has laid down (which the eventual podiums, he hopes, will demonstrate).

      Vijay wants to be remembered as a good boss no matter how this case goes – and remember, Vijay thinks he can win the case despite the present indications.
2. 

   FA
   11th March 2019, 0:53

   Wow, the anti-RIC sentiments on this site.
   1. 

      BasCB (@bascb)
      11th March 2019, 13:50

      Well, there seem to be many new ppl routing for Verstappen so much that they seem to feel they must talk down Ricciardo. But there are many who are fans of RD even more because of that
   2. 

      Xcm
      11th March 2019, 18:38

      Honestly I think his f1 rating has more to do with his smile and marketability than his driving skills… but he’s so much better of a driver than Verstappen.

      All this crap with Verstappen has definately made me appreciate DR more than before… a total trump situation for sure.
3. 

   Darryn Smith (@darryn)
   11th March 2019, 1:05

   The COTD is assuming Red Bull are going to be in the hunt for the championship? I think Riccardo’s main reason to move was the grenade in the back of the Red Bull and to a lesser extent Verstappen. He also knew at Red Bull he was the #2 win, lose or draw.
   1. 

      DB-C90 (@dbradock)
      11th March 2019, 2:43

      @darryn I don’t think it was because of the grenade, although the PU’s lack of power 2014 – 2018 certainly contributed.

      I got the feeling his head dropped right at the beginning of the year when it was apparent that the RBR car yet again wasn’t in the hunt for the WCC. When that happens, I think it’s time for a change and from how it played out so did he.

      Whether it’s a good change or a bad one, only time will tell.

      I’m wishing both RBR and Renault good fortune this year and really looking forward to seeing how the internal competition between their drivers plays out.
   2. 

      heals1909
      11th March 2019, 3:18

      if the recent reports are anything close to accurate i’m sure the $$ had noting to do with it (apparently now the 3rd highest paid driver on the grid!)
4. 

   maiagus
   11th March 2019, 1:38

   Indycar is in line to regain relevance, but one thing always make me unconfortable: drivers from other series can almost instantly find success there.
   The uneasy goes in two directions. 1) Indycar drivers level may not be the ultimate top level in the world, even compared to FE and DTM; 2) maybe F1 – and its audience – is missing on some good drivers.
   I think is not possible to say that championship contenders Indycar drivers are worst that half(or 2/3) of the F1 grid. And for many drivers it is an absolutely sensible decision to go/stay in Indycar because the F1 ladder (for good and bad reasons) is to steep to climb. A couple of Indycar drivers could put out some good show in a more evenly competitive F1.
   1. 

      pastaman (@)
      11th March 2019, 2:57

      Except… not? Sure, good drivers can come in and do well, but average drivers who come into the series… well they are very average. Just look at Chilton. Has anyone been able to come into the series and beat the regular champions over a full season? No.
      1. 

         nase
         11th March 2019, 13:19

         @pastaman

         average drivers who come into the series… well they are very average. Just look at Chilton.

         Probably not the best example, as Chilton was never an average driver, he was plain terrible by F1 standards.
         Ericsson could prove to be a better case study. Clearly below average average in F1, but not someone who’d regularly lose more than a second per lap against his team mate.

         As for no one coming into the series and beating the IndyCar establishment: Nigel Mansell comes to mind. But yeah, that was a quarter of a century ago. The thing is: In the past few decades, there were virtually no promising ex-F1 drivers who switched to IndyCar. Those who did, were rejects.
   2. 

      BasCB (@bascb)
      11th March 2019, 13:59

      First of all, I think that the top guys in Indycar would be pretty much in line with the pack in F1, some would probably be in the mix at the top Maiagus, provided they’d be driving for a top team.

      But a very strong factor in what you observe is also the fact that quite a few drivers don’t manage to get many results in F1 because they don’t have the equipment to do so, while in Indycar the cars are all the same, so the only difference is between team operations (where there are still 3 teams clearly on top) and the drivers. In FE the difference between the equipment etc, also is not as large as it is in F1.

      It might just show us how much we lost from not having some of those guys in at least a solid midfield F1 car. If Ericcson manages to achieve good results, that probably tells us more about the Sauber he drove last years than about the quality of the guy – that would also give more indication of what we can expect of Leclerc.
5. 

   Sumedh
   11th March 2019, 2:40

   While the COTD raises a very intriguing point (and does put Rosberg in a good light), it remains a fact that for Rosberg, he knew he was just 1-2 mechanical failures (for his teammate) away from the championship. Any other seat would have made it impossible for him to win the championship.
   With Ricciardo, there was no championship at Red Bull and that makes the biggest difference.
   1. 

      BasCB (@bascb)
      11th March 2019, 14:02

      Exaclty what I mentioned in reaction to that CotD yesterday Sumedh. Rosberg was in a position to go for it because the MErcedes had big enough an advantage on speed and the team was willing to let their drivers fight for it.

      Arguably though, Red Bull does have the speed to be third even if they let their drivers fight it out on track too. They are very unlikely to beat either Mercedes or Ferrari anyway, while at the same time they are under no pressure from behind either. But they have shown not to be inclined to support both drivers equally, rather being supportive of the one they feel is their best shot at success instead.
6. 

   faulty (@faulty)
   11th March 2019, 4:07

   Real happy that Pato has currently a 60% of season worth of races lined up when a couple of weeks ago he had zero. Hope he can qualify well for the 500.
7. 

   kpcart
   11th March 2019, 5:27

   Days between f1 races. Would have been great if kubica was in the last 158 races.

   1. Jan Lammers – 3745 days (168 races)
   2. Luca Badoer – 3584 days (167 races)
   3. Gene Force – 3288 days (75 races)
   4. Pete Lovely – 3226 days (79 races)
   5. Robert Kubica – 3045 days (158 races)
   6. Peter Revson – 2583 days
   7. Eppie Wietzes – 2583 days
   8. Mike Parkes – 2542 days
   9. Bruno Giacomelli 2402 days
   10. Mike Hailwood 2289 days
8. 

   Jere (@jerejj)
   11th March 2019, 9:25

   TBH, I thoroughly agree with Vijay Mallya. He’s got a valid point.

   Regarding the COTD: Not reasonably comparable, though, given that RBR hasn’t been title-winning material recently while Mercedes was dominant when NR was still competing.

   Well, five venues (Circuit de Catalunya, Silverstone, Hockenheim, Monza, and Autodromo Hermanos Rodriguez) don’t have contracts to hold a race beyond the upcoming season, and two of those especially are in danger of facing the drop, so I wouldn’t be too surprised if it were to be reduced by one or two. I’m fairly confident of Spain and Italy being able to remain in F1, but the other three especially Silverstone and Mexico not as much. We shall wait and see.
9. 

   Mashiat (@mashiat)
   11th March 2019, 10:15

   Regarding COTD, I completely disagree. It’s simple mathematics. If Rosberg manages to put absolutely everything into one season (to the point where he was mentally exhausted and had to quit afterwards), that was with the knowledge that if he pulls it off, he will win the F1 title, as Mercedes was that far ahead of its competition. If Ricciardo does the same, he could perhaps beat Verstappen to 5th in the standings. Not an achievement you risk your career for. I guarantee if Red Bull was genuine title contenders, Ricciardo wouldn’t have quit. But the fact of the matter is, all Red Bull can guarantee between now and the start of 2021 is a few wins, and that’s it. And is that enough of a pull to possibly risk your prime years being beaten by someone who is 8 years younger than you? Not at all. At least Rosberg’s competition was in the same point in his career as him.
10. 

    RBAlonso (@rbalonso)
    11th March 2019, 10:32

    I disagree the COTD to an extent. I certainly believe that Ricciardo had lost the head game with Verstappen but I’m not sure the management styles of Mercedes and Red Bull are analogous. Wolff and Lauda are cut from the competitive ‘nature’ cloth that value drivers who want to obliterate their team-mate and push the team forward by constant infighting. This tactic only works if the management always appear fair and in control of both racers (it also helps to have a second a lap in your pocket on race day). Horner and Marko conversely favour the ‘nurture’ approach of building a champion to your exact requirements at the expense of the other driver. This tactic worked well in the Vettel era but McLaren essentially did the same thing with Mika.

    Had Ricciardo and Verstappen been racing for Mercedes, still fighting for P3 in the constructors, I believe Daniel would have stayed. However I think Horner and Marko recognise how important it is to ‘build’ Verstappen. I think everyone can agree that managed correctly his potential could see him take every record in the book. I also feel the charismatic Ricciardo was vital in Verstappen’s progression to make him more confident than arrogant, a bit less like his father. Max is now old enough he doesn’t need that support; he needs a number 2. Ricciardo realised this post-Baku and Renault turned his head.

    If I were Ricciardo I would have made the same choice. Renault’s success is cyclic and lest we forget their engines have been winning in the hybrid era. Honda engines have won 4 races since Senna at Monza in ’92 and 3 of them were under Mugen branding. Renault engines have won 11 drivers and 11 constructors titles since then. At Daniel’s age Red Bull Honda is not a risk worth taking. Ricciardo now has 2 seasons to prepare the team for a shot at the title in 2021. Assuming they achieve that, the head game between Ricciardo and Hulkenburg will be equally as interesting.
11. 

    kpcart
    11th March 2019, 10:51

    Also, ricciardo was going to get paid far less than verstappen this year if he stayed at redbull. Verstappen is their favourite son, not ricciardo. By switching to Renault he is getting 3 times the money he got at red bull, is basically garuanteed to be the teams number 1 driver, and its just an exciting new beginning for him. Ricciardo did everything right at red bull, beat vettel, beat verstappen, and then baku happened, and the team made their choice that day by not punishing verstappen, from then on there was no motivation to drive for a team that doesn’t support their drivers equally.
12. 

    Velocityboy (@velocityboy)
    11th March 2019, 12:32

    Why no MotoGP coverage? Once again they put on a fantastic race with .023 seconds between first and second and the top 5 being covered by .6 seconds. There was action from start to finish and even with the leaders managing their tires for the first half of the race they were fighting and overtaking one another.
    1. 

       Alianora La Canta (@alianora-la-canta)
       11th March 2019, 20:11

       However great the race will be, don’t expect coverage here – Keith decided a few years ago that there had to be some boundaries on what was covered simply because the workload would get overwhelming. So anything with fewer than 4 wheels isn’t covered here, unless perhaps an F1 driver is directly involved in a significant capacity (e.g. if Hamilton decided to do a MotoGP race during his summer break or pre-season one year).
13. 

    nase
    11th March 2019, 15:26

    I think the CotD is missing an important aspect: Ricciardo already outscored Verstappen, in 2017 and 2016. Been there, done that. Has it brought him any closer to being a championship contender? Nope.
    As for his leaving the team being a question of character, see Ricciardo’s former team mate in 2014, who also jumped ship as soon as the tide turned against him. Has it done him any harm? Not really, it has helped him become a regular championship contender again, with a very promising 2019 campaign ahead of him, outscoring Ricciardo by more than 100 points per season on average. So much for character and karma. That and an outstanding car will get you somewhere.

    Also, Honda. Judging by the hard, cold facts, Ricciardo had plenty of reasons to believe that Red Bull’s new engine partnership wasn’t going to get him any closer to fighting for championships in the short term. Which is the only term that matters when you’re turning 30 and start to hear your biological clock ticking. Ricciardo has been third in the WDC two times already. He probably wants another 3rd, 4th, 5th or 6th place in the WDC just as much as Alonso wants to finish 2nd one more time …
    Therefore, getting away from Red Bull was a sensible move. However, it remains to be seen whether Renault is the right place for him to fulfill his ambitions. They’re clearly gambling on restrictive budget rules in the near future, but so far their progress has been a bit underwhelming. And it’s not like Ricciardo ran away from Verstappen to be partnered with a harmless team mate who barely challenges him (looking at you, Mercedes and Ferrari …). He’s up against Nico Hülkenberg, i.e. one of the hidden giants of the midfield.

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