Daniil Kvyat, Toro Rosso, Albert Park, 2019

Gasly: Kvyat pass shows impact of lower tyre temperatures

RaceFans Round-up

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In the round-up: Pierre Gasly says the lower rear tyre blanket temperatures teams have to use this year contributed to him losing a place to Daniil Kvyat in the Australian Grand Prix.

What they say

Gasly jumped ahead of Kvyat through the pits but couldn’t keep the Toro Rosso behind on cooler tyres, as he explained after Sunday’s race:

Basically I braked and I could feel like already turn one like I almost locked up. And then coming into turn three I tried to brake a bit later and I locked a bit the front and just warmer tyres for him and he could make the move.

I think clearly it’s impacted because I could feel like going out of the box the first two or three corners clearly more snappy and I think it makes it a bit difficult. Even though today was hotter I think in cold conditions it’s not going to be easy.

Quotes: Dieter Rencken

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Comment of the day

@Stefmeister takes issue with Ross Brawn’s justification for introducing a point for fastest lap:

“The fight to claim that one extra point, in the knowledge that it could be vitally important in the closing stages of the championship.”

Which is exactly why I don’t like it.

The championship should not come down to something as arbitrary or as largely irrelevant as bonus points the fastest lap given how many factors can play into who actually gets the fastest lap and how many silly games can be played with it.

It’s shortsightedness at it’s worse, five minutes of potential artificial spice at the end of a race at the expense of the sporting integrity of the championship standings and eventually it’s going to come back to bite them… I hope this year so we can be rid of as soon as possible.
@Stefmeister

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  • 63 comments on “Gasly: Kvyat pass shows impact of lower tyre temperatures”

    1. To be honest. A very similar thing happened, when Magnussen rejoined the track, and hulkenberg tried to go around the outside. Hulkenberg and kvyat were on hard, Magnussen on mediums and gasly on soft. Shouldn’t gasly just admit he was pretty poor in the entire race?

    2. i am in agreement with cotd.

      bonus points should really not count towards the championship because there is too much possible manipulation such as the ‘a teams’ using the ‘b teams’ to take the fast lap gimmick points off championship rivals and things of that nature.

      imagine the final race scenario where it comes down to who is the fastest lap rather than where drivers finish on the circuit with somebody not in the championship hunt been the deciding factor. this would be total farce and rather anti climactic way to end things.

      i too am hoping that we see such a situation this season so we can do away with the silly rule sooner rather than it staying around and calling several championship seasons into question.

      it is one of the very worst idea gimmicks; just as bad as double points as far as i am concerned.

      1. Agree, RogerA and with the CoTD.

        That Ross endorses this gimmick says far too much about his indoctrination into the Liberty Entertainment At All Costs method.

        Is the plan by Liberty to alienate all the hard-core F1 racing fans and cater to the young ADHD segment? 30 minute races with Fanboost on Netflix, for 2021?

        1. I think that they have already achieved the first Part. However to be fair if Bernie was still in charge the whole thing would be on the verge of collapse.

        2. We should of all seen this coming with Michael Buffer at COTA 2017 and the WWE style intros. Liberty are gimmick masters, the netflix documentary was the most blatant example of F1 selling its soul in order to gain more tweets and popularity among people who have no passion for this sport.

      2. Personally for me, I like the new fastest lap of the race gets the point rule. It adds excitement in the race in a way that I don’t feel is artificial. Anyone of the Ferraris, the Mercedes and the Red Bulls can the point if they really wanted too plus it gives rivals that have had a bad or somewhat unlucky day a chance to stay on track. Remember that incident in Belgium 2014 when Hamilton and Rosberg collided with each other and as a result ruined Hamilton’s race? As a result of that, Mercedes decided to retire Hamilton’s car because it was unlikely he was going to get into the points. Now with this rule, Mercedes maybe wouldn’t have to retire Hamilton from the race and he can drive as fast as possible trying to that point for fastest lap. This rule adds a strategic element, that I find interesting. But let’s see how it plays out during the season.

        1. Fastest lap point is only available for those in the top 10 finishers.

        2. ..Mercedes decided to retire Hamilton’s car because it was unlikely he was going to get into the points. Now with this rule, Mercedes maybe wouldn’t have to retire Hamilton from the race..

          The bonus point is awarded only if it’s a top 10 finish..

      3. Right. I also think it’s a slippery slope from this fastest lap garbage to fastest pitstop or who leads a certain lap.

        1. who leads a certain lap

          @darryn – I don’t mind giving a whole boatload of points to the driver who leads the final lap, tbh. As much as 25 points, even. ;-)

          1. @phylyp: Brilliant! That’s the kind of winning gimmick that deserves to be in first place.

      4. I don’t mind the point for fastest lap. I hope it adds some excitement. the final laps are usually a bit dull so it definitely introduces a bit of spectacle. I don’t agree with people saying it’s arbitrary – it’s been arbitrary for years but now there’s a point for it, so it is anything but arbitrary. actually, i’d argue it’s had a kind of prestige before now – vettel always arguing with his engineer about going for it (“but satisfaction”); it’s good.

        imagine a final race scenario when the title rivals were each going for fastest lap e.g. hamilton is 7 points down on vettel, but vettel has more wins. hamilton would win the race and vettel finish 2nd. before this year they could be running 1-2 and vettel doesn’t have to do anything to win the title. but this year hamilton could set f.lap and secure the title by a point. vettel would have to go for it too – excitement ensues.

        I questioned only having it available to the top 10, but actually this rule has eliminated a lot of the odd ‘gaming’ the system we might otherwise have seen.

        1. While we are at it …. if the FLAP is going to be retained, and it looks like it will at least see out the year, then please …. please …. please … stop the TV commentary constantly referring to who has the fastest lap until we get to the last 10 or so.
          What value is cluttering up the stats and discussion when the race is less than half way through?
          I appreciate that Liberty and whoever the producer is, fully expects that I am a idiot, but this is just plain nuts.

    3. RE: COTD. I agree. It may add a bit of interest to the end of a race but I still don’t think that who gets the fastest lap should contribute towards the championship standings & ultimately help decide the championships.

      At the end of the day the fastest lap is a largely irrelevant statistic which isn’t indicative of who had the best package that weekend/on that day. Especially when you are going to see drivers pit late in the day for fresh tires which will make who gets fast lap even less relevant & even less deserving of the extra point as it’s then down to nothing more than who has the gap to be able to do it & who doesn’t.

      Whatever (artificial) spice it may add over the last few laps…… Is it really something we want to see contribute towards & potentially decide who wins the championships?

      For me personally the answer to that is definitely not!

      1. In terms of motor racing, the fastest lap is completely irrelevant.

        Why is a fast lap at the end more important or notable than a fast (alebeit much slower) lap near the start of a race on high fuel that launches a driver up to a position that enable a challenge for a win.

        Why is it better than one from a driver in 16th that puts in 5 fast laps to gain 5 positions.

        Racing is about the skill to do laps fast enough to stay in front ( for the lead driver) and to catch and pass others for the rest. That doesn’t change for most of the field. Implementing this ridiculous extra point is just another example of Liberty bringing gimmicks that could potentially risk machinery and drivers.

        next they’ll be insisting that all cars must use party mode for the final 10 laps.

        1. @dbradock

          > In terms of motor racing, the fastest lap is completely irrelevant.

          I think lot of you are seeing the thing from the wrong point of view. The point is not to give more points, that’s the reward. The point is to make the race more spectacular. And from what we have seen in Australia (which is the only real example), we didn’t have any late pit but we had the top 3 contenders going for it. I didn’t expect this and it was a good surprise in a typically dull part of the race.

          Are the top drivers fighting until the end for one more point a good thing? I believe they are. Are, eventually, some late pits good for the show? I believe they are. I don’t expect anyone coming out at the end of the championship with 21 points due to fastest laps, they probably will be more equally distributed. So I don’t see the problem with the more points on the table.

      2. Out of curiousity, was fastest lap bonus point an artificial gimmick dreamed up by Liberty when the sport began?
        From 1950-1959 a bonus point was awarded for fastest lap.
        It sounds more like going back to the roots of F1 to me.

    4. in relation to the ott/f1tv article.

      f1tv has worked great for me since around last july and apart from issues with some of the onboard cam streams on raceday it was great for me all weekend through melbourne both live and replay.

      my only gripe with it is that they do not feature the onboard camera mix channel which i think would be more useful as a secondary screen on my laptop alongside the tv. having the 20 individual car onboard is all well and good but i would rather the directed onboard mix (it is the one with car data graphics) that is easy to sync to the tv broadcast and just leave running.

      aside from this it is very good service i feel and throw in the ever growing archive stuff and supplementary programming i am enjoying very much what is on offer at such a reasonable price i feel.

      1. Well said, for me much the same. I will note that the Friday was not working well for me, but, since ziggo go here also didn’t go (for the whole weekend!), I think they did better than alternatives.

      2. RogerA, @bosyber

        I finally took one month subscription to F1TV to test it and so far have had very mixed feelings. On one side I was very excited with the idea of a second screen for the Australian Grand Prix but actually the quality of the product is a bit too low for a paid service. I noticed a few problems, some of them are very annoying:

        On the app version (Android / iOS) the video players don’t have any seek bar. So the app is almost unusable when catching up with the replay (which I did for the Australian race). I had to use the browser version and specify ‘desktop mode’ despite being on a tablet – just to get the seek bar.

        The desktop browser version doesn’t have multi-screen option. It means I either have navigation feature or multi-screen.

        Third problem was that the onboards were not available up until half the race. No onboard starts then, a real blow for me. But this is most probably unrelated to the app as there was a livestream but it just showed a ‘pit’ grey screen.

        Other problems include for example the screen forced in vertical in the app version but when in the video screen it’s forced in horizontal. It should just follow the orientation.

        I noticed the english version is not available to me (Belgium). It’s a shame because sometimes I like listening to the English coverage.

        Anyways, it’s a bit too much problems for a paid service. I work at developing the same kind of streaming service (though on a smaller scale) and we have a better interface (and a free service). It deserves better.

        1. Well @spoutnik, I will agree that the interface (consistency) could be a lot better; your post made me realize that I am quite content because my experience with f1 media might have led me to have quite a low bar for ‘better than alternatives’: it is a bit over €6 a month, no adds, also gives me the f1 app (bbc5live commentary, live timing) and is uncluttered. But perhaps too much so, as you point out.

          My commiserations on the ‘no English’, I am quite sure that is for legal reasons, though let me assure you, I was at times quite tempted to go for the Dutch or German, despite their issues, so tired was I of the sky guys ;)

          1. @bosyber good points. I think we all found it better than nothing indeed. No ads is quite appreciable as you say and the price is reasonnable. But as a developer in the same field of technology I know what’s possible to do . The f1tv app in its current state is not worth more than 200.000€. Given the F1 budgets it’s actually a shame.

            1. Yep, that seems very fair @spoutnik

    5. Two article of Daniel being dejected.
      Come on man…. Light yourself up! Grow a beard or something…

    6. The biggest problem with the point for the FLAP is that some journalists are so obsessed with it that that they’ll use any opportunity to bring it up again.

      Supporting it or not; one should at least realise that there is nothing artificial about it as FLAP had been a part of circuit racing since the days of horse carriages and hourglasses.

    7. My personal view is different to that of the COTD. Four reasons, bear with me.

      First, collectively take the last 5 mins of every race and multiply that by 21. That’s how much the excitement goes up this season. Sure, this may not be needed in case of a race that has had plenty of drama, but for races like Australia it at least makes you sit up on a couch you were slouched on yawning.

      Second, this is by no way an “artificial gimmick to spice up the show”. It is dependent completely on an F1 driver doing exactly what he is paid to do – go fast or rather fastest of all. Oh the joy of ignoring the team to “turn it down” or “bring it home”. This offers a glimpse, however small, of how competitive a race car driver is.

      Third, imagine three drivers have won three races each in a year with other things being equal such as second places etc. You still have one more criterion to prove why one sits ahead of the other in the standings.

      Last but not the least, wait for the time when a driver going for it spins out. Imagine the emotion you will have if you support that driver or his main rival.

      1. @thedoctor03: I beared and I groaned. Now whine with me.

        Point 1: Why not just skip the boring parts and just have a 5 minute race. That would be very exciting too. Even better, there’s time to hold at least 20 of those exciting races. How exciting!

        Point 2: F1 isn’t just about the drivers. I’d say it’s more about the teams. But, with this latest gimmick, Liberty wants to pretend it’s all about the drivers. If you feel it should be more about the drivers than the cars, there’s a number of spec series you might want to watch.

        Point 3: Another variable, another gimmick. More Drama!

        The last point… More manufactured drama. How exciting! But as exciting as random-timed track sprinklers? I don’t think so.

        Seems that the world’s most intensely-engineered bespoke cars driven by the world’s best drivers, sometimes competing on the world’s best circuits isn’t exciting enough.

        It is for me. Once F1 moderates its aero-addiction, it could even more exciting without the hollywood theatrics.

        This excitement add-on appears to be a calculated gimmick to draw a few more eyeballs to Liberty’s late-race circus ratings. A global circus that Liberty can’t yet stream reliably in every country. Or at all in many countries.

        1. Wow, you really are angry aren’t you? A little respect would help. I wasnt whining. Go look that word up in the dictionary. It’s called expressing an opinion in a respectable way. Too bad you have such strong opinions you cannot control yourself.

          1. @thedoctor03: Thanks for your doctoral assessment of my emotional state via the infallible internet forum method.

            And you missed my point – ” I beared and I groaned. Now whine with me.”

            I read and considered your points, and then asked you to put up with my whining about those points. Unfortunate that you must resort to insults to counter viewpoints not inline with yours.

            It was me whining about the gimmicks that Liberty keep adding to the ‘show’. What you perceive as high value add-ons, I deem to be gimmicks.

            Enjoy the season and I will endeavour to never engage you again.

            1. @jimmi-cynic

              1. My family name is Doctor. Full marks for trying to be funny. Not.

              2. There was absolutely no insulting going on from my end. The problem is, fans like you express dismay and shock at anything and everything these days. But I know, it’s not your fault you were born in this generation. I am hoping you typed your last comment out on a typewriter since clearly the internet and these websites are too gimmicky for your taste.

              3. Very happy to not engage. Overtly excitable and cynical people going through a MLC are not my cup of tea.

            2. @thedoctor03: You claim you’re not insulting me. And then go ahead and insult me.

              You didn’t engage with the issue or further your argument, instead you make more personal disparaging remarks. Please read the Comment Policy, before engaging in more personal attacks. Thank you.

            3. @jimmi-cynic I really am not. I don’t think I started off making fun of the other person’s nickname – you did. “Doctoral assessment”?!

              I am merely stating facts. My family name is Doctor. You hate gimmicks and want to angrily demonstrate against those who don’t share your view. And finally, you refer to yourself as a cynic, which is what I have restated.

              But I agree it is good for all concerned that we don’t take this further. Good luck and I hope we find some common ground to look back upon this as getting off on the wrong foot.

        2. Agree with @thedoctor03 and @coldfly below. And it’s hard to have a discussion with one side so full of needless cynicism and sarcasm.

      2. I agree with Urvaksh, and will add another reason.

        The fastest lap gives us another data point. For example, in Australia we could see that the Mercedes is nearly 7 tenths faster than the Red Bull under racing conditions on similarly old tyres.

        Certainly I prefer watching drivers going for the fastest lap towards the end of the race rather than coasting to the flag.

        1. @bslaveboy yup – agreed. I am sure people might not share our opinions, such as @jimmi-cynic, which is fine. What I find difficult to grasp is how simply expressing an opinion nowadays leads to comments like “you like gimmicks – you are not a fan”!

      3. The issue with FLAP is not one of entertainment @thedoctor03. If we wanted that we could, let’s say for example of the top of my head, have sprinklers turn on for the last five laps (Ecclestone, 2011).

        The issue with FLAP is that devalues the sport and fair competition for the reasons stated above by @gt-racer. The two are not mutually exclusive.

        1. How does FLAP devalue the sport as it has been part of it since day one (it even had an award).
          FLAP is not entertainment; it is pure skills (driver & team) as prescribed by ‘the doctor’ above. (of course exciting sports will be entertaining; but still sports, and exciting).

          1. Couldn’t say it better @coldfly

        2. F1 is not a ‘sport’, really. A sport has consistent penalties and fairly awards prizes – F1 does neither of these things.

        3. @john-h I thing the point IS entertainment. Entertainment within what we already have, without adding sprinklers or fan-boost.

          How does this devalues the fair competition is beyond me, looks like the same rationale between “2018 championship if points awarded were those pre-2010. We’ll see at the end of the year projections of standings without the fastest lap point: I don’t expect big differences, but the silver lining should be that if it changes the outcome, than teams and driver will learn that those points count and they have to go for them; if it won’t, we would have had more show without any consequence.

          @robinsonf1 it is a sport in some ways, but is mostly – or should be – entertainment. And I think we had our good share of not entertaining at all races in the recent years. So excuse me if I’m all in for things that may or may not entertain me more.

        4. @john-h There is no comparison to be made to sprinklers, which would truly devalue the entertaining sport that is F1, just as drs has.

          And I think it remains to be seen if drivers in the top ten will actually use a pit stop sized gap to pit for tires and a run for an extra point. If they want to take that chance, so be it. I think it will be a rare occurrence therefore is nothing that concerns me whatsoever. It will likely not be one of the drivers looking to podium anyway, as just with Wolff’s philosophy, those drivers will not want to take the risk. They’ll just go for it without pitting.

          Do we want this extra point to decide the Championships? Why not? Even the driver that wins a race by going as slowly as possible is still the one that completed the distance the most quickly. It is a race about speed after all. If a podium level runner wants to go for this, where’s the harm? If a non-podium driver and therefore on average not a likely Championship contender wants to use a gap and pit and go for it, where’s the harm?

    8. F1TV had some issues, but the main feed was working fine during the race, so that article title is meh.

      That said, FP1 and FP2 were a drama. People from the newer regions couldn’t play any video (So they simply forgot to remove their geofencing checks for those regions), but nothing a VPN couldn’t fix. Unfortunately it also had buffering issues and cut-outs. Which weren’t too bad, but still annoying. FP3 and qualy were flawless. Then in the race, they didn’t have any of the on-board camera’s working for the longest time, which was a shame.

      That said, it wasn’t too bad, issues seemed relatively minor and fixable with a bit of server scaling.

    9. Even Grosjean said, due to less heat in rear tires as new FIA rules., it’s easy to make mistake or warm up the temperature. So drivers need at least 1 lap to get the temperatures.

    10. tony mansell
      20th March 2019, 9:32

      Still banging the fastest lap drum eh? Well, it gave the last 5 laps some spice, its spice we want no? I wasn’t particularly a fan of 9points going to 25 but its here. This site is rapidly losing relevance

      1. I agree re the points. It should be 20 down to 1 with 1 point between finishing positions, then we would have a proper mix of very close scores. Also then the Championship winner need not have won the most races, but strategy, “lack of offs” and reliability play a more appreciated role.

        But like everything else today, the sport is being dumbed down to suit a lower common denominator.

    11. Did anyone else see that strange advert on Channel4 for Max Verstappen? Not the team, just him as a product. It must have cost fair amount at prime F1 time on Channel 4 .
      I have never seen an individual driver ad before, what is the point? Is Max lacking the awareness of the British F1 fans? I would not have thought so, will this gain him new fans? No.
      Will you now want to dress like him? No! Lewis has that sewn up, to a cringeworthy level that has lost him some FB followers.
      So what was it about? Who paid for it? Why?

      1. You sure it wasn’t an ad for his G-Star RAW clothing line?

        Max has a special clause in his contract that allows him to do individual contract deals (as long as they don’t conflict with RBR sponsors), the clothing line is part of that.

    12. Why did Ricciardo use the lever for gear-shifting instead of the paddle-shifters on the back of the steering wheel? (similar to how shifting was done in WRC from 2011 till 2014)?

      Regarding the COTD: I as pointed out before am 50-50 on this topic, but I don’t mind about the fastest lap of a race being worth a point. I don’t find it too gimmicky/artificial.

      1. @jerejj because Australian Supercarsdont have paddle shifters. They actually still have a foot clutch from memory.

        1. @justrhysism What are those two things that look like paddle-shifters behind the steering wheel for then if not for gear-shifting?

          1. @jerejj not sure, but the V8 Supercars use a control sequential gearbox: https://www.supercars.com/news/championship/new-control-gearbox-locked-in-for-2019/

            Wasn’t that long ago that they used to use a H-pattern.

    13. I think undercuts may be more difficult due to this new rule on tyres temperature..

      1. It’s similar in Indycar as they don’t use tyre warmers. You often see the ‘overcut’ working as a better strategy.

    14. Reading the Ricciardo article it’s easy to forget these guys are still human when they show up week after week performing at the levels we expect.

      I know from just playing Mario Kart how easy it is to slip out of a performance window. A tiny slip after a decent start from him ruined countless hours of prep by him and the team but the difference between that and pulling off a pass like he did say against Bottas in China last year is almost imperceptible.

    15. To put some perspective around the fastest lap, I think we should bear in mind that it was only interesting because Max (IIRC), Hamilton (IIRC) and Bottas were all putting in purple sectors towards the end of the race on their existing tyres.

      If Leclerc or Bottas had pitted for fresh rubber, then it would have been a moot point, as they’d have been able to do pretty much a qualifying lap, while the others clung to their positions on much more worn tyres.

      I’m sure we’ll start seeing more of such strategy from the car in P6, as well as B-teams to try and steal/deny that point away from someone else, and at that point, awarding a point for FLAP will become farcical.

      1. I’m still not convinced we will see many drivers at any level pit for tires just for this point. Perhaps later in the season amongst the teams that are that close in the Constructors fight, for there’d be prize money on the line, and that will add a level of exitement, but otherwise I think most attempts for the extra point will be done by cars in their running state and not through a special pit for fresh tires. They’d still have to have earned the gap for the pit and still have to consider the risk/reward level for the one point, and will have to be watching if anyone else will be trying at the same time.

    16. georgeboole (@)
      20th March 2019, 13:06

      I won’t care about the fastest lap point as long as there is previously action on track. After all WRC gives points for the top 3 in the last super special stage and I have seen no change in the championship battle.

    17. The follow up to my comment that was made COTD….

      The purpose of a race isn’t to be fastest over 1 lap, It’s not even necessarily to be the fastest at all. It’s to have the best package to get to the end ahead of everyone else.
      As many greats & ex multiple time world champions have said in the past, The object of a race is to win at the slowest possible speed (In order to preserve your equipment).

      The thing for me is that while it didn’t happen in Melbourne i’m pretty confident we are going to see scenario’s where drivers just pit late for fresh soft tyres & with a 1-2 second a lap performance advantage grab the fastest lap by default. To me doing that isn’t deserving of a point & should not be a deciding factor in the championship (Especially given how its open to abuse/manipulation it is with teams playing games with team mates & B-teams).

      For me the championship should be based purely off points based off where you finish. Any bonus points be it fastest lap or anything else just starts to devalue the championship.

      1. Still disagree. When you win the race you have completed the distance faster than the others. It is indeed about speed.

        You’re preparing for scenarios with B teams etc that are based on pure speculation. We just saw Wolff say it wasn’t worth the risk to pit with so many points at stake. It is more likely to me that the top runners who are the ones going to podium the most and fight for the Championships won’t want to take risks for a point, so if non-top-3 drivers want to use a gap that they’ve earned to risk pitting for tires for another point, where’s the harm? If a podium level driver isn’t going to pit and risk his points but rather just tries to go for it as his car sits, where’s the harm? They might not even bother trying if they see that a Haas or a Renault or an STR has indeed pitted to try for the fastest lap on new tires.

    18. I think a good tweak to the fastest lap point is that it’s available to anyone (not just the top 10), but only counts towards the constructor’s championship. This way, it wouldn’t affect the WDC, give the teams outside the big 3 a chance to get more constructor’s points, and spice up the last few laps of the race.

      1. Make a convoluted rule more convoluted?

        1. I’m more a fan of removing rules, but convoluting convoluted rules should be F1’s motto.

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