Sebastian Vettel, Ferrari, Paul Ricard, 2019

Ferrari lose bid to have Vettel’s Canadian GP penalty reviewed

2019 Canadian Grand Prix

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The FIA has rejected Ferrari’s request to have Sebastian Vettel’s Canadian Grand Prix penalty reviewed.

After receiving evidence presented by Ferrari the stewards ruled “there are no significant and relevant new elements which were unavailable to the parties at the time of the competition concerned”.

Ferrari claimed they had “overwhelming” proof Vettel did not break the rules when he rejoined the track in front of Lewis Hamilton during the Canadian Grand Prix. He was given a five-second time penalty which cost him victory in the race.

Among the evidence presented by Ferrari was analysis of Vettel’s telemetry, videos and images of the incident, GPS data from Vettel and Hamilton cars on the lap of the incident and other laps, and a witness statement provided by Vettel. The stewards noted all of these were available to the stewards “before the end of the competition”.

Ferrari also supplied a video analysis of the incident by former F1 driver Karun Chandhok which was broadcast by Sky Sports F1. The stewards ruled this was “new but not significant and relevant as this is a personal opinion by a third party”.

The team also provided a new video angle from Vettel’s face camera which was released after the original penalty was handed down. The stewards deemed it was “not significant and relevant as the evidence contained in this video footage can be seen within other video”.

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Keith Collantine
Lifelong motor sport fan Keith set up RaceFans in 2005 - when it was originally called F1 Fanatic. Having previously worked as a motoring...

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62 comments on “Ferrari lose bid to have Vettel’s Canadian GP penalty reviewed”

  1. Please can we leave this subject be now – pretty please – and move on.

    1. Just because you’re tired of reading about they should just move on from something that was wrong? I’m glad you don’t have any power in the world. ”Naaah I’m tired of it, just give up man.” Funny

      1. It waant wrong. Vettel made a mistake and he was punished for it. End of story. Get over it.

        1. @Ads Lee

          Seriously? Since when do the stewards get to SELECTIVELY punish drivers when they make a mistake and go off-track? What if next time a driver makes a mistake and loses it right next to the concrete wall, but saves it and doesn’t crash – do the stewards get to punish them there too? Ridiculous…..

          1. Except they didn’t selectively punished him

          2. Since when do the stewards get to SELECTIVELY punish drivers when they make a mistake and go off-track?

            He didn’t get punished for making a mistake or going off track though. If you had any brain cells you would know this.

        2. @Martin

          Then explain what exactly he got punished for. Some of you are saying he made a mistake, others are saying he drove recklessly (lol), and some even say he was being rude and a crybaby. Lot’s of people writing lot’s of trash.
          Let’s see about those brain cells…

    2. Only if all options are exhausted)

      Ferrari probably can prove they can veto this decision, and this will drag on for another 5.5 months.

  2. Panagiotis Papatheodorou (@panagiotism-papatheodorou)
    21st June 2019, 15:54

    Even though I don’t think the penalty should have been awarded, if Hamilton lost the win like this, it would be equally bad. Two wrongs don’t make the situation better at all.

    1. You can’t lose something you never had :)

      1. Agree with yuki, hamilton did NOT deserve the win, as such taking it away from him would only be good for the sport.

        If you believe I’m a hamilton hater, hamilton deserved belgium 2008.

  3. the greats from the past must be turning in there graves.

    just proves that racing is dead. we dont need all these ridiculous hand holding rules that don’t let drivers race hard, it is totally pathetic and against everything that the sport is supposed to be about.

    it was a disgusting decision in montreal and this is the final cherry on top, utterly disgustingly pathetic decisions all around from an increasingly decaying sport.

    its no wonder people are turning off now because nonsense likes this just leaves a sour taste in everyone’s mouth, a real turn off.

    i hope the drivers let the fia know how dumb this all is in todays driver meeting and that these dumb rules can be overturned for future seasons.

    1. Those dead past masters, killed in unsafe racing accidents were they?

      1. Not sure if you are trolling or…
        You must have to go back into the 60s or earlier to find a driver in f1 who lost his life in an accident caused by reckless racing.

        1. Maybe but Johnny Herbert did nearly lose both his lower legs and multiple other serious accidents have occurred that most motor sport fans are aware of…

    2. No. Nonsense would have been NOT to penalize Vettel.

      It was harsh, but 200% correct.

    3. Staggering donkey
      21st June 2019, 18:21

      Nonsense, you want to talk about greats and people having races taken from them? Try Spain 76 or Britain 76 for starters. Do you think Niki or Enzo would be spinning? Er no because it was them who made the complaints, one an obscure rule later overturned, the other an underhand complaint made months later when they needed to increase the points gap. Stuff like that has frequently happened, teams complain about anything they think is advantageous and frankly Ferrari are the worst. Understandably they aren’t too happy when the boot is on the other foot, nobody ever is. Notice how Sen and Ferrari have made the last two weeks narrative about how hard done to they are rather that how Vettel made an serious error under pressure again?

    4. It’s Vettels actions which killed racing. If he had played fair then there could have been a great battle for position.

    5. No pls, it’s ok to b a ferrari fan but don’t b a sore loser pls. Vet as expected cracked under pressure as in so many incidents made a mistake and cut the chicane, thereby gaining an unfair advantage. If u want to talk abt hard racing, then Vet should have given up that lead position n race hard with Ham to try and gain back the lead (provided he has the ability), but he’s obviously not up to the task.

  4. Can we just move on .
    They were never going to overturn this.
    Get over it.If Vettel hadn’t made the mistake under pressure in the first place none of this would happened.

    1. It’s dumber than that. Even if the penalty had been somehow overturned it wouldn’t have impacted the race classification or the championship points standing as the sporting regulations say that the race classification won’t be impacted by the review of a penalty. It’s just completely stupid.

      1. It was honestly just vettek telling his team to make a big deal so he doesn’t look like an idiot to his fans

  5. Pity, they should have given him another 5 seconds for wasting everyone’s time.

    And a 10 place penalty for having a tantrum like a 2 year old.

    1. I’m OK with them asking for a review even though it wouldn’t change the outcome.

      +1 on the 2nd part

    2. what they should have done is bring up hamilton’s spa 08 penalty video, and asked ferrari if they wanted that rule applied to them instead? and gave vettel a 25 sec penalty plus 10 place grid drop in the next race… since hamilton’s penalty was made up and awarded after the race, they should make one up or bring one back to stamp the incident and move on…

  6. So about as ‘overwhelming’ as Ferrari’s title bid.

    1. @david-br, whatever the merits of the penalty – and it seems that both sides have only become increasingly polarised in their reaction – I have to agree that the decision by Ferrari to so aggressively play up how “overwhelming” the evidence is (whilst simultaneously being rather evasive about what it was), before it turned out to be underwhelming, is a bit embarrassing.

      They’d have been much better off if they had taken a lower key approach to the whole process – I guess they wanted to get their side of the story into the press first, but now it seems that even some of their fans are going “if that was all you had, you really shouldn’t have bothered”.

      1. It was always unlikely they had additional evidence, unseen by the FIA stewards, yet alone ‘overwhelming’ additional evidence. But calling a TV pundit’s analysis ‘new evidence’ is well into the realms of farce. And something of an insult to the stewards, who had much more information available to them, and real experience in stewarding. As you say, it’s difficult to comprehend what Ferrari intended with this process. Unsettle Mercedes and Hamilton? I really don’t know. I just think it puts more pressure on Vettel to live up to the aggressive bar they’ve set. And we’ve seen just how well he’s been coping with pressure during races.

        1. that was really funny actually, because now everyone should bring up “overwhelming evidence” or better take (ferrari) autosport’s youtube videos as evidence to show how mercedes should be penalized for being too good and declare vettel/ferrari the champions today :)

          1. Just wait until Ferrari start quoting comments below those YouTube videos as impartial expert assessments…

        2. Mark in Florida
          22nd June 2019, 0:51

          Respectfully @david-br if Chandhok was in the FIA booth he would have been just like Pirro….a steward. Just because he was commentating doesn’t diminish his intelligence somehow. I like what he says most of the time unlike some of the others who tend to be slightly annoying at times. So what if Ferrari wanted them to look at more evidence. They could have looked at it and still stayed with their original opinion. This would have at least calmed some people down but no they flat turned it away. This will only keep people mad about it not make it go away. It stinks of a cover up by The FIA who seem to be hiding behind a wall of rules and red tape. The fact that this situation was even looked at by the stewards shows the ridiculous amount of baby sitting that exists in F1 now. This sport is choking on its own rule book.

  7. Adam (@rocketpanda)
    21st June 2019, 16:11

    Le gasp. Nobody could ever have seen this shocking development.

    Yawn. Move on and fix the rules.

  8. Ferrari are banging their pots and pans.

  9. Expected but still Meh.

    Pretty sure it will be discussed in the drivers briefing later & I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see the rules change because of it because it seems that nobody in the paddock (And that includes Hamilton/Mercedes) is truly happy with it.

    The feeling is pretty much universal within the paddock amongst teams, drivers, Liberty, The FIA & media that it never should have been investigated to begin with & that by doing so & handing out the penalty F1 really shot itself in the foot & that the only positive to come from it will be that the regulations will almost certainly be tweaked if not altered entirely because of it.

    1. Will be interesting to see how they change the rules, given it was teams and drivers that effectively nudged the rules in this direction @gt-racer, with complains of arbitrariness and others getting unfair advantage from fauls on track.

      But, evolving insight and advancing understanding of how the resulting rules work out on track, should of course always be able to modify them if, this time then hopefully with a solid framework, and reasoning of what the intended purpose and limits are, rather than based on reaction to individual incidents as it has seemed to be until now (eh, including now, really).

      1. muddled sentence there, make that :

        But, evolving insight and advancing understanding of how the resulting rules work out on track, should of course always be able to modify them if, as was clearly the case here, it leads to unsatisfying results.

        And this time let’s hope it results in a solid framework for driving rules, with reason and logical thinking about what the intended purpose and limits are, rather than a hodgepodge based on reaction to individual incidents as it has often seemed to go until now (eh, including now, really)

      2. Personally, I am worried by some drivers saying that penalties should be preferably handled after the race, so that it doesn’t affect the race (and presumably so that if the penalty is then disputed, it can be changed again?), but, penalties changing a result after the race have been quite annoying and problematic in the past (which is why the stewards tend to try and judge during the races!) for a variety of reasons.

    2. @gt-racer next week ferrari will take your “overwhelming” opinion to next review of the penalty, and they will just cancel all the penalties, because your “overwhelming” opinion matters!

  10. The problem is, we all know it’s going to happen again very soon.

  11. Lol who say that coming a mile away

  12. The evidence, is overwhelming…

    …ly bad.

    Did Ferrari honestly think they were going to get this review with a Sky opinion piece and GPS data?

    Oh and a statement by Vettel because obviously his opinion means so much to a steward reviewing his conduct.

    Agree or disagree with the penalty but don’t bring the sport into disrepute by spurious reviews of penalties that can’t be appealed.

    Like Max said, don’t like the rules? Try to change them. Don’t go after decisions made completely in accordance with them.

    1. @stopitrawr

      but don’t bring the sport into disrepute

      The only thing bringing the sport into disrepute is the FIA with these stupid penalties that hardly anyone that knows anything about racing feel was correct.

      The decision in montreal made f1 look ridiculous and did more to bring the sport into disrepute than anything else since crashgate.

      The fact there has been near universal condemnation of the penalty from those that actually know about what goes on out on track (the drivers) tell’s me everything i need to know about how dumb the penalty was.

      1. You aren’t actually arguing like you think you are.

        The rules are bad, the decision was correct.

    2. Got to laugh at all the Ferrari fans who were slagging off Emanuele Pirrro’s F1 credentials last week. Then this week Ferrari show up with Karin Chandocks tv opinion piece as their new evidence. LOL At least Pirro actually scored some points in F1!

  13. I don’t think it should have been investigated to begin with (I don’t think it was unsafe or dangerous & neither do a majority of the drivers it seems) & I definitely don’t think it should have resulted in a penalty. I think the fact it was even investigated is just as pathetic as the fact it resulted in a penalty.

    Just leave them to race unless somebody does something that’s truly dangerous or outrageous. Stuff like Montreal/Today & other bits of racing incidents should just be left upto the drivers to discuss it after the fact which is the way it used to be in the past & I don’t recall that ever really been a problem.

    You don’t need these hard & fast rules dictating how drivers race. They know what there doing so just leave things upto them. F1 & the wider sport in general worked perfectly fine for many decades without ‘racecraft’ having to be regulated in the way it is now & many (Maybe even a big majority of) drivers both past & present seem to share that view so I think it’s something that at the very least should be looked at.

    1. GtisBetter (@)
      21st June 2019, 17:29

      The problem is that over the many years of F1, penalties have been given and sometimes not, which resulted in appeals and then additions were made. We are now in the situation that no matter what you do one team will appeal, especially since we have lots of video proof of penalties given.

      If Vettel wasn’t investigated, surely mercedes would be all over the stewards and could show that they had penalized these actions before. Right now you can’t just hit the reset button and let them race, unless you make it clear at the start of the year by…changing rules. The time of “let them race” has long past and a radical shift is needed if we want to return to that time. And drivers are the most hypocritcial of the bunch, they say one thing, but they are the first on the radio complaining that action should be taken if they feel wronged and they know it too :)

      1. It’s a similar situation to football. Constant aggressive questioning of referee decisions eventually led to the introduction of an available technology, VAR, which is now blamed not for getting things wrong but for interrupting the flow of the game. It’s an outcome of the age of entitlement and litigation, continually questioning arbitration until you end up with a complex system based on masses of information and rigid application of rules to ensure fair and equal application. The F1 teams pressed for this system and got it. So live with it.

        Or burn it up. But the situation stands: Hamilton saw Vettel came back on track unsafely and block him, and adjusted his own racing in accordance with his instant (and correct) interpretation of the rules. Vettel, Ferrari and 2 million F1 ‘pundits’ can’t change that fact. The same applies after the penalty was given, Mercedes and Hamilton adjusted their race to that fact. Ferrari can very legitimately ask for a review of the regulations – in fact, I think they should. Put the arguments in the open. Then it will become clear that the they’re asking for incompatible things, freedom to race, but within a set of regulations that they (claim to) want to be applied evenly. (Of course what they really want is the same as every team – an advantage or exception for themselves. Hence the need for stewards!)

  14. It will be very interesting to see the outcome of today’s investigation of incident caused by Hamilton during France GP training …

  15. Say what you will about any of this, but the 2 points on his license for this incident are absolutely unwarranted.

    1. @chaddy The stewards see from the evidence that Vettel did it on purpose and a penalty like this goes with points.

      What’s absolutely unwarranted is the ridiculousness from Vettel. He who emphatically insisted Verstappen deserved his penalty in Suzuka 2018 can not now claim that he himself did nothing wrong in doing the exact same thing. Worse even.

  16. What a surprise FIAMG not overturning anything made in favour of the Liberty Goldenboys.

  17. If Karun Chandok on the Sky pad is in favour of Vettel who are we to argue! Ferrari your a joke!

  18. Entirely predictable. It’s the Montreal stewards decision to even open the case for hearing and why would they willingly open themselves to the possibility of being proved wrong? The power’s in their hands and they used it. Wasn’t counting on it, however some rule changes are in order, and improvements must be made regarding the consistency of the decisions and rules interpretation. Otherwise this joke situations that lose F1 popularity in majority of the fans’ eyes will continue to happen

  19. A skytv video as NEW EVIDENCE ? ? ? ? ?
    Oh my.. where are they, first school grade?

  20. Brendan Smith
    21st June 2019, 19:26

    Why could the stewards not have reviewed the incident after the Canadian GP, as they did now with Hamilton after the FP2 at French Grand Prix. At least we could have watched Vettel and Hamilton race.

    The stewards have way too much discression when and where to implement sanctions. And seem unaccountable to anyone. They can affect race results in a manner which could suit their own needs

    1. @Brendan Smith

      So, you’d be happy with the results of a race not being decided until hours after everyones crossed the line? Have the podium ceremony, hand out the trophies and then a few hours later tell the poor sap on the top step that actually, becuase he broke a rule, he needs to hand the trophy back and lose the points he had gained?

      Or alternatively, have all the fans, the drivers, teams and dignitaries sit around for a few hours post race until the decision is made?

      A practice session incident is under no rush to be investigated during the session as ultimately, the results of the practice sessions have no ultimate bearing on the championship. Worst case sceanrio, a ‘bad’ investigation judgement will only affect the drivers qualifying position, not their race classifcation and points haul.

      Whereas the race is more immediate, the results of any investgation can have a direct result on the race classification and points haul. We’ve seen in the past when a race winner has been stripped of his win post race and the reactions have been mixed. Most recently Hamilton in Malayasia 2008 (Which was the height of ridiculousness) or Ricciardo in Austraila 2014 (Which wasn’t his fault, but the teams fault and their inaccurate sensors and was a shame that he was stripped of his first win and at his home race too)

      Yes, some investigations are left until after the race, but this is often when both (or all) cars involved are knocked out of the race, so there’s no rush to investigate as the outcome is going to have no bearing on the race result.

  21. Wow that “evidence” from Ferrari was just beyond embarrassing. So it basically only was an analysis from Karun Chandhok (plus all the stuff the stewards already had). How did they even think that would be “evidence”? Just wow.

    Not sure if this tops Red Bull claiming the fuel flow sensors didn’t work only to demonstrate that it actually was their software which was buggy. And even that said they used too much fuel flow.

    Nah Ferrari didn’t beat that., but it comes close.

  22. NeverElectric
    22nd June 2019, 1:27

    Ferrari, what a farce. The stewards had access to all telemetry and GPS Data, so the “new amd compelling evidence” hat ferrari claimed to be in possession of must be Karun’s Sky analysis.
    Lord help us.

  23. So the rule exists and must be applied. Tell me about Monaco 2016 (HAM vs RIC).
    Because of the different standards in applying the rules, teams, drivers and fans are entitled to be outraged by what happened in Canada.
    The most recent example: in the same Canada GP RIC defended his position on BOT by changing line multiple times. Not even investigated. In the past this conduct awarded penalties.

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