Sebastian Vettel, Ferrari, Red Bull Ring, 2019

Ferrari’s “outdated” veto should be abolished – Seidl

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In the round-up: McLaren team principal Andreas Seidl says Ferrari should lose their controversial power of veto over changes to the F1 rules.

What they say

We have a clear opinion on that as well. I don’t think we need any other team to represent us in any forums.

I think it’s simply outdated and we hope that this doesn’t exist anymore from ’21 onwards.

Quotes: Dieter Rencken

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Comment of the day

Jeffrey thinks Red Bull should look beyond their young driver programme if they lose patience with its latest graduate:

Why not a solid and experienced driver like Hulkenberg? Renault are reported to look beyond him as his contract is running out at the end of this season and the French outfit are said to be wanting a French driver.

So, why not swap Hulkenberg for Gasly?

Nico would jump at the opportunity to finally fight for podiums and Gasly get’s his hard reset and a real opportunity to prove he is still quick, rather than being demoted and damaging his psyche even more.
@Jeffreyj

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Keith Collantine
Lifelong motor sport fan Keith set up RaceFans in 2005 - when it was originally called F1 Fanatic. Having previously worked as a motoring...

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  • 38 comments on “Ferrari’s “outdated” veto should be abolished – Seidl”

    1. Re. CotD – so Renault will be staffed by drivers who couldn’t hack Max? ;)

      the French outfit are said to be wanting a French driver

      I don’t mind them looking for someone French to help their branding and marketing activities. But it feels like even if Hulk moves to RBR, there’s shouldn’t be a driver swap the other way – unless Renault are content to say they’re happy to only challenge in and win at F1.5.

      Renault today have a driver pairing that reflects an F1 team’s ambitions of moving forward, replacing Hulkenberg with Gasly might no longer achieve that.

      If they’re set on French drivers, Grosjean might be an option – he can be fast, but is often inconsistent (and this year’s Haas seems to be exacerbating things even further). Then again, to me it seems like Steiner’s handling of drivers is better than Cyril, so unless Grosjean is pushed out, he shouldn’t make the jump.

      1. Monsieur @phylyp you forget monsieur Ocon. Who was headed to Renault before Danny Ric signed.

        1. @seanloh – very good point, yes, I did forget him! Now that would be a much better driver to sign up.

          1. @phylyp you haven’t forgot him, it’s Mercedes that already turned of the spotlight on the kid, and probably don’t know what o do with him, just like they didn’t with Wherlein, and even went to the absurdity of not releasing him of his contract do compete on the first Formula E race.

            With the Merc contract, Force India closed and Williams probably setting for a pay driver next to Russell, I don’t see a bright futuro for Ocon, unless Mercedes decide to treat him better

        2. @seanloh They also would’ve wanted to keep Sainz longer-term, but since RBR refused that, they decided to go and lure Ricciardo to join instead.

      2. Yeah, as @seanloh mentions, Renault would immediately push to get Ocon in their car – and I can see Mercedes agreeing to get him driving again @phylyp.

    2. Disagree with Nico when he says Max ran CL wide by not taking the apex, in that CL had left tons of room for Max to do so. So Max may have gone in wider than previous laps at that corner, but it is not like he was immediately squeezing CL out. CL left the door wide open, so Max out himself in there without having to be unfair about it. Once Max won the corner his wide exit was fair game as that is one of the rewards for winning the corner.

      1. Should read ‘Max put himself in there…’

      2. Exactly! VER had 3 car widths on the interior part of the track, so why still push LEC wide and off-track?! Unless that was the only way to overtake him, based on the outcome of the same corner from previous lap….

        1. @mg1982 Because he won the corner and had earned his right to his chosen exit line, and wanted to win the race, so upon exit he legally removed CL’s options to defend, and went on to win.

      3. Max didn’t exactly won the corner though, they were still completely side-by-side on the exit.
        Just as how Leclerc left room for Max on the apex of the corner, Max should’ve left enough room for Leclerc on the exit.

        Vettel-Alonso in Monza 2011 and 2012 is actually a pretty interesting case study, but with the roles reversed with the defending driver on the inside.
        Alonso in 2011 left just enough space for Vettel to make a move. It was tough but fair, Vettel had two wheels of the track, and Alonso wasn’t given any penalty.
        In 2012, the roles were switched and that time, it was Vettel on the inside. He didn’t leave enough space and Alonso had all four wheels off the track. Vettel was slapped with a drive-through penalty.

        My point of view is that had Verstappen was sufficiently ahead, he wasn’t entitled to give Leclerc some space but again, they were still completely side-by-side and stewards pretty much messed this one up.

        1. @marinatedmonolith
          ¨stewards pretty much messed this one up”
          No, they didn’t, they got it 100% right. This was a tactical and technical masterclass overtake, perfectly executed and 100% within the drivers code of conduct.
          This overtake is a textbook example of how racing should be.
          I know there are people like you who disagree, but that simply means your watching the wrong sport.

          1. @marinatedmonolith – I disagree with Oconomo, you’re opinion is valid and you’re not watching the wrong sport.

            @oconomo – Please share the relevant passage of the Drivers’ Code of Conduct. Barring that, get off your high horse. I dare say both @marinatedmonolith and I are aware that this is an accepted practice at this point, that you can drive your rival off the track. But accepted doesn’t mean it is acceptable, makes sense, or is fair.

            At no other time during the race are you allowed to push someone wide who is behind you. You always have to leave room (a car’s width) to the edge of the track. But somehow the exit of a corner means you can. The mind boggles as to why that is somehow the case. And if Verstappen had been ahead, maybe one could stomach that argument, though I still find it spurious. But he wasn’t. Up to the point of contact they were side by side, wheel to wheel.

      4. There was nothing fair about the Verstappen move. He outright knocked Leclerc off the track.

    3. https://streamable.com/ojo42 pretty interesting comparison between Russel and Kubica.

      1. OK, help me out here, mate. What am I supposed to be noticing? They’ve synced the large video comparison, so I’m not sure what the differences are. In the inset video of the steering wheels, my takeaway is that Kubica seems to give more see-sawing steering input than Russel. Is that the objective of this comparison, or have I totally missed something obvious?

        1. Incredible how much smoother Russel is, looks like Kubica doesn’t have the strengh to hold the wheel as good as Russel.

          1. Yeahj, but its not incredible its just a result of having an injury like his. Which isnt a surprise and was known prior to this season by Williams.

            The way i read it is that Kubica was the most profitable pay driver for the team and thats why he is in the seat.

            That said, hats off to Kubica for the effort.

            The reality is that he hasnt disadvantaged the team at all since they dont have the car for points. Perhaps this a fact Williams also knew prior to the season and played into driver selection choices. Would not surprise me at all

        2. ColdFly (@)
          3rd July 2019, 7:47

          @phylyp, you’ll notice that after 12s they swap tyres.
          We knew that Williams had fast pit stops, but this is out of this world ;)

          1. @coldfly – ha ha ha ha ha, I don’t even know how you caught that in your viewing :)

      2. JP (@jonathanproc)
        3rd July 2019, 23:19

        This isn’t really a fair comparison. Russell is in relatively clean air, while Kubica is in dirty air and battling with other cars.

    4. Its not just their Veto but also Italian Mafia Tax aka Ferrari Bonus that needs to be culled in order to help smaller teams in getting better prize money distribution.

      1. ColdFly (@)
        3rd July 2019, 7:51

        It’s not a ‘tax’ but a ‘protection fee’ ;)

        1. @coldfly – that always reminds me of this bit from Jeeves & Wooster: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geHeQOeVvDg (quite appropriate that the discussion occurs around two cars)

      2. Matteo (@m-bagattini)
        3rd July 2019, 8:59

        @Chaitanya @keithcollantine I already pointed out that, as an Italian, I find your comments offensive. It may sound a joke to you, but I’m not here making fun of your country or people without understanding the meaning behind words, so please, again, avoid using those terms.

        1. Or else you may wake up to find a horses head lying beside you! Take note!

        2. So how does this offense manifest itself? Do you get physically ill? Does it affect you mentally? Apart from being able to play the victim, I’ve never understood why anyone should care about what offends me.

        3. tony mansell
          3rd July 2019, 11:16

          Id be more offended that an Italian team cant win with the fastest car. But sure you don’t like it that someone made a tongue in cheek comment about the mafia. And id have thought Italian f1 fans would have to have the best sense of humour

        4. Are you sure you’re Italian? You seem pretty German to me…

        5. How can you be up in arms over these comments and feel justified, when the veto/bonuses Ferrari receives are basically a reverse pizzo? I have lived in Italy for much of my life and it is more than fair to say the leading Italian sporting clubs and teams are united by a common shadiness of operation and a histrionic streak to be brought out to silence any dissent as suits. Be it threatening breakaway series (Ferrari AND Juve have both been there…funny that!), crying wolf again and again over perceived favouritism (despite proof to the contrary) and a general attitude of “on our terms or nothing” resounding through the decades of F1, criticism is totally justified.

          It is absolutely evident none of these comments refer to Italians in general, who are fantastic people…so long as sport isn’t mentioned.

    5. If Gasly does not pick up his form before the summer break (erm next race?), he will be dumped. Marko has dumped drivers for less. If there’s one thing admirable about Marko is that he bears no sentiments, he’s purely business.

      As per CoTD, I like the idea of Hulk going to RB. I doubt it will happen though. First off, I don’t think RB will want to pay his 10 million dollar (or Euros?) salary. I don’t think they will bring an experienced driver. Marko will be able to pull their strings as much.

      If Gasly doesn’t improve, they may just demote him to STR. Albon has impressive, and may get a chance in the RB?

      1. I don’t think it’s admirable that Marko throws driver after driver into cars when they are clearly not ready and does nothing to support them when they are there. I wonder how many drivers F1 careers he has destroyed? Because in all those years his program has only produced one champion; despite efforts to sell Max as one of his successes. And I’ve no idea what else he brings to RB. I’m with Joe Saward on this one; the best thing RB could do as a team is to sack Marko.
        If it’s purely business with Marko then as a businessman he is a failure.

        1. I don’t get the feeling it’s about business with Marko or Mateschitz (sp?) but rather a singular pursuit for a champion. Not a good driver, not a competent guy, not a Heidfeld if you like but the ultimate F1 pilot. His hit rate is crap on the face of it – Vettel the standout in a sea of Alguersuaris and Sainzs, around 20 drivers total? – and he definitely seems like a hard nosed guy. But to have found one multiple champion out of a global population of X billion within 5 years isn’t so bad in isolation, and you’d be hard pressed to find someone who genuinely thinks Max isn’t going to end up at that level too. Correct me if I’m wrong but rb/tr joined in 2006, with Vettel at str in 08 and rb in 09-14, winning 10,11,12 and 13. That makes for a WDC hit rate of almost 30% since the start of the program… that’s pretty good no?

      2. Albon has impressive, and may get a chance in the RB?

        @jaymenon10 – if Red Bull intend to continue with their “young driver programme” approach to RBR, then Albon is the one person they should NOT promote this year to replace Gasly.

        I agree with you that he is impressive, and that is all the more reason they should give him a sensible amount of time to hone his skills in F1 without the pressures of a team that goes toe-to-toe with Mercedes and Ferrari.

        Apart from the obvious example of Kvyat promotion and woes in RBR, Charles is a person who was promoted unusually quickly to Ferrari (by their standards), and we already see that he isn’t as phlegmatic as he was with Sauber last year – most notably his approach to the race in Monaco. Now, I’m not saying that Charles’ promotion was wrong (far from it), but it just serves to illustrate the pressures of a front-running team even on a capable driver.

      3. @jaymenon10 Three more races before the break.

    6. There isn’t any clearer view of Ferrari’s veto than that.

      Regarding the COTD: That isn’t a bad suggestion, although if Hulkenberg were to leave the team, then they’d probably go for Ocon.

    7. Ferrari’s veto right good for f1, and it is the only fuse available. As usual mclaren jealousy.

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