Sainz hopes Spanish GP deal becomes long-term

28 comments on “Sainz hopes Spanish GP deal becomes long-term”

1. 

   Glamo
   27th August 2019, 1:34

   A great female driver would have MORE than enough support and funding to propel them right to the top! Let’s stop with this nonsense that its somehow hard for them when it would probably be much easier than for a male.
   1. 

      Ross
      27th August 2019, 4:07

      It amazes me how many people don’t get this. You’re right, the right woman would have a pretty clear run to F1 if they were good enough. The problem starts with junior categories, and how many girls are given the option of Motorsport as a career, as David Coulthard said a couple of days ago his sister was highly talented but the families limited support was given to himself over her ( that mentality has continued up until very lately, and in most families most likely still does) . Saying you want women in Motorsport now doesn’t automatically override the fact that it has been a male dominated sport for 100years, it will take time to fill the ranks with women of the calibre needed to find the ones that can make it in F1. There is literally no point in putting a woman in seat for PR reasons alone, it will only hinder the plight of women in Motorsport. Given how far up the formula ranks women have reached in just a few years of support I would suggest that there will be women on the F1 grid within the decade.
      1. 

         anon
         27th August 2019, 7:23

         Ross, I would also note that there have been some who have suggested that mentality hasn’t really changed all that much in recent years within the world of motorsport, despite outward claims to the contrary.

         If I recall well, Danny Watts, the former sportscar driver who eventually publicly revealed that he was homosexual when he retired in 2017, stated that he’d found the world of motorsport was still pretty sexist and homophobic when he was actively racing – it seems, though, that the motorsport press generally glossed over those remarks. Things may be changing, but I am not necessarily sure if it is improving quite as rapidly as you suggest.
      2. 

         MacLeod (@macleod)
         27th August 2019, 7:57

         The little sister of Max Victoria Verstappen was also very good in carts but for the same reasons she quits (still enjoy driving carts) as she said support would be only from her family but no great deals of companies like Max got.
      3. 

         socksolid (@socksolid)
         27th August 2019, 11:23

         Basically every female who has simply achieved to string together couple of years in the back of the grid in f3 while being hopelessly slow have been given f1 opportunities (wolff, calderon, jorda). There is only one single exception to that rule. Men can win the championship and not get the same opportunities. Women have huge advantage in motorsports because any team would pick women over men at high level motorsports just because of the publicity.

         The reason why females get stuck at karting level is because of the same reasons as everybody else. Money. Publicity does not help poorly skilled female karting driver get a seat above karting because at that level publicity is not a big thing. But if these females can get to f3 and find sponsorship then their gender will carry them at least to f2 along with f1 opportunities if they want it (wolff, calderon, jorda). If a female karter was quick enough she still needs to find the money just like males need and that kills about 90% of racing careers. But if skilled female karter would get up to the next level based on skill then after that everybody would line up to have her in their team. Competent woman driver in f1 is a massive gold mine waiting to happen and if you thought danica in nascar was big you have not seen anything. It’ll be a hype train like never seen before.

         People also MASSIVELY underestimate the physical requirements to drive f2 and f3 cars quickly. These cars are extremely physical to drive and young males at 15-17 have much more strength to handle those cars and move to them after karting whereas females need to work on their physique to get the strength. Already in karting which is also somewhat physical boys start to have an advantage when they hit puberty. Human biology can not be deceived. Both sexes can have equal skill but strength and endurance also make a difference and at young age that favours men extremely heavily. I hope we see a competent female in f1 but you need more females in karting to get the numbers up and I don’t think it will happen as long as females are not as interested in motorsports like men are. It could be that if you put every female into karting who wants to do it you still end up with rather small number because females are not simple interested in motorsports.
         1. 

            smurfler
            27th August 2019, 12:06

            @socksolid
            The question is; Is it really a massive goldmine sponsoring a woman in F1?
            There are currently a few sports where both men and women compete at the highest level; tennis, athletics, field hockey, footbal and cycling. All those sports have a huge female fan basis, yet their commercial value is nothing compared to the commercial value of man. (Unless the female is very goodlooking ofcourse, which sets an uncomfortable precedent.)
            So, if you were a marketing director and you are given the choice of sponsoring a average looking boy or girl, which would you choose?
         2. 

            ian dearing
            27th August 2019, 14:02

            True; and I would love to meet all these 30 something couples who prevent their daughters doing ‘men’s’ jobs. Iv’e never come across any. And for every sexist, homophobic male within the sport ‘preventing’ women from progressing you can guarantee there is a racist counterpart. And it didn’t stop Hamilton who faced those people the first time he ever turned up at a track. And as Motorsport Magazine has indicated in the past the ringleader of that little crowd was ‘a senior figure with British motorsport’.
            If you have the talent, the financial backing and the desire it doesn’t matter who you are; you can make it.
            1. 

               Alianora La Canta (@alianora-la-canta)
               28th August 2019, 7:46

               @ian dearing You clearly live in a very different part of the world from the (middle of England) location I do. And for that matter, businesses and employers have tended to be even more reluctant than families. This is significant since, without corporate backing, few people get enough funding to get to car racing at all, let alone the F3 and F2 some women have managed recently. Relying on outliers only helps if you can be sure the 1 in 100 who gets through the discrimination happens also to be the most skilful, talented and apt of the 100 – far from guaranteed, and not sustainable even if so.

               This morning, I saw a tweet thread from a journalist. In their nearly-year-long career so far, they’d experienced nearly one incident of discrimination a month – which in this business is about one every three race weekends (the journalist only chose to highlight events occurring within the paddock, while “on-duty” as a journalist. Do not expect me to believe people who claim female drivers get less discrimination than female journalists, given there’s more acceptance that female journalists are every bit male journalists’ equal in terms of skill, talent and desert of respect (at least, within the paddock).

               It would also be well to point out that no black driver, so far as I can tell, has made it to F3 since Lewis Hamilton reached F1 12 years ago. That is… …statistically implausible. And likely for the same reasons.
            2. 

               socksolid (@socksolid)
               28th August 2019, 10:30

               @alianora-la-canta
               You saw a tweet and base all of that on the one tweet? Heh. Also it is statistically implausible that there are no americans in f1. Or is it?
            3. 

               Alianora La Canta (@alianora-la-canta)
               28th August 2019, 15:26

               @socksolid Firstly some terminology for those unfamiliar with Twitter: a tweet thread is a series of linked tweets. In this case, the journalist detailed each

               I’ve seen quite a few other reports from female participants in motorsport about what they face when they work in motorsport; I could have picked any of those, but happened to choose one from this very morning. Be

               It is statistically implausible for there to be no American drivers since Scott Speed left in mid-2007 (though they’ve certainly come closer than black drivers have).

               In their case, a primary cause has been identified: the generous and substantial funding that exists to develop professional American racers, and then to pay them once they turn pro, in a variety of racing disciplines on home turf. This is augmented by the low cost of racing – the cost of an Indy Lights drive is about the same as a F4 drive, and it costs less to buy a (non-top-tier) Indycars seat than a F2 one these days. In single-seaters, the culmination of the ladder is a title (Indycar champion) that many, if not most, American racing drivers consider the equal of F1 World Champion. Europeans generally don’t, but the example you give is about American racing drivers. Also remember how often drivers in the European system cite lack of funds as a reason for limiting their running, team options or careers – it’s less common in American series (though nobody would describe it as rare…) In short, there are better odds of getting to what is regarded by the driver as a similar level in the domestic route than the international one – meaning Indycars looks to be the better “primary” option.

               A secondary cause has also been identified: the vast separation of disciplines between F1 and Indycar. Due to the primary cause, the junior American series are incentivised to prioritise the skillset combination needed for Indycars (and other domestically-rooted racing series), while the European ladder prioritises the skillset for F1. The combination is crucial, and wider than it was in previous decades when drivers from both sides of the divide crossed over with varying degrees of success without bothering to do much/any “junior series” preparation. Nowadays, you’d probably have to do a whole season of Indy Lights/F2 to progress to the senior tier and have any chance of reaching the level you’d reach in your “primary” level, no matter how good your basic talent is. It forces a choice between the “primary” and “secondary” routes artificially early in a driver’s career.

               We therefore have two known major causes, one positive and one negative, for Americans to prefer to race in series that make getting to F1 very unlikely.

               However, the “primary” reason has no correlation with what women experience. If a woman wants to get prestige in their sport, they’re aiming for the same titles as the men. Arguably, W Series forms an “easier” route (though I’m far from convinced of this – a detuned F3 car has to be raced in order to get the same number of points as a F4 driver would get, indicating that in W Series and the FIA’s eyes, women have to prove they can race a F3 car before being allowed in a “proper” F3 series) but they still have to rejoin the mixed series to get a title they are likely to have as an ultimate goal.

               There is also no vast separation of disciplines between what women race and what men race. How can there be, when most of the time their cars are required to follow the same regulations, being as they are mostly in the same races?

               Try again, please.
            4. 

               socksolid (@socksolid)
               28th August 2019, 19:29

               @alianora-la-canta
               You have not even posted the tweet yet you assume it somehow counts as evidence of something.

               I’ve seen quite a few reports from female drivers as well and they all seem to say the budgets and sponsorships are the big issues. Not some “once per month discrimation incidents”…
            5. 

               Alianora La Canta (@alianora-la-canta)
               13th September 2019, 15:10

               @socksolid I’ve seen several people cite the discriminative incidents over the years, it just happened that on the morning of that post, I’d seen another one.

               I’ve also seen a lot of people cite budget, sponsorship and several other issues (some big, some small). Nothing you have cited counts as valid counter-claim of the allegation, by the way, and given some of the attitudes shown in this thread, I don’t feel comfortable citing names becasue they’d probably get more flak given the size of the site.
            6. 

               socksolid (@socksolid)
               14th September 2019, 10:59

               @alianora-la-canta
               Your personal twitter feed and alleged accusations without proof are not worth anything at all.
         3. 

            Ross
            28th August 2019, 3:56

            Massive physical requirements that can be filled by a 60kg 15yr old… yea seems totally out of the realm of possibility that a female could manage to meet those requirements. Here’s a horrifying study for you… https://womenintheworld.com/2016/08/15/women-are-closing-the-strength-gap-with-men-in-a-big-way/
            1. 

               socksolid (@socksolid)
               28th August 2019, 10:27

               Already the url is pretty cringy. And the actual study is behind paywall. I can play this horrible game as well
               https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8477683

               “The women were approximately 52% and 66% as strong as the men in the upper and lower body respectively.”
            2. 

               Ross
               28th August 2019, 10:45

               The.URL may be cringeworthy but the study was written by the Washington Post. Physical strength needed to drive both F2 and F3 more importantly F1 cars are far from the limits of human capability.
   2. 

      Sensord4notbeingafanboi (@peartree)
      27th August 2019, 6:09

      You could say the same for max or lewis, back in the day. Right now if you are a fast woman someone is going to cash in on the hype.
2. 

   Johns
   27th August 2019, 2:38

   Must get there on merit? I agree but why change the rules now?
   1. 

      hobo (@hobo)
      27th August 2019, 18:14

      Exactly.

      I don’t think anyone wants to see a woman in F1 who cannot cut it. But we have had many, many men in F1 who had no business being there. So either shut up with this line about merit (not you, Johns, the broader comment) or enforce it across the board.

      It’s the same in every other situation. As soon as laws/rules change to integrate a part of life (politics, a sport, a type of business), then “merit” is suddently thrown around because the only ones with any experience (merit) were the same ones keeping others out to begin with. The cream will rise, just as it does with boys/men. Think how many boys and men participate in motorsports. How many are F1 drivers? How many are MotoGP drivers? If girls are only 2 or 3 or 5% of that, it’s going to be a hell of a long time before an amazing woman arrives in F1. Not only do they have to be really good, but they have to have money at the right time, connections at the right time, opportunities at the right time, etc. There are enough barriers. Give girls and women the benefit of the doubt in lower levels. Put in some effort to find highly skilled drivers, and get them into positions to inspire more and more girls to start early.
3. 

   Jonathan Parkin
   27th August 2019, 4:47

   I agree with the COTD about rules being needlessly complicated. Take Safety Car starts now for instance. The SC leads the pack away and then the race director has a couple of options available; to have a standing start afterwards, to not have one. Or the end of a race is now full race distance or 2 hours + 1 lap. Why do we need one extra lap all of a sudden.
   1. 

      Rui (@colinmcrui)
      27th August 2019, 8:36

      Or the end of a race is now full race distance or 2 hours + 1 lap. Why do we need one extra lap all of a sudden.

      It is typically like this with time limits. The drivers must be informed that it is the last lap.
      1. 

         Jonathan Parkin
         27th August 2019, 12:52

         But what was the reason for the change. Originally when the 2 hour rule was implemented the last lap was the one on which 2 hours was exceeded (used to great effect by MS in Monaco in 1997). This was the case until the Singapore GP in 2017 when it suddenly became 2 hours +1 lap
         1. 

            Lancer033 (@lancer033)
            28th August 2019, 1:42

            Was the 2 hour rule dropped at some point? I thought the current rule was in response to the 2011 Canadian GP that last something like 4 hours.
         2. 

            Alianora La Canta (@alianora-la-canta)
            28th August 2019, 14:51

            @Jonathan Parkin The 2 hours + 1 lap change occurred at the beginning of 2017 (before, it was 2 hours + 0 laps). No official reason was cited, though some other series already do this, and the one theory I can think of is that Formula E made the “x time + 1 lap” format memorable due to the frequent changes in situation that would occur on that last, highlighted lap.

            @lancer033 I believe the rule in response to the 2011 Canadian GP was the 4-hour total time rule. This means that if there are more than 2 hours of red flag/postponement, the race time limit will be shortened, so that people have some idea of when the race will finish and, for example, nations with a paid/free sharing arrangement can proceed knowing what time the “free” element is likely to be able to release highlights (you can’t highlight a race that hasn’t finished yet!). Bonus: in theory, it should mean that races that can’t handle darkness don’t get run in the dark due to delays.
4. 

   Jere (@jerejj)
   27th August 2019, 7:29

   I don’t find the extra-point for FL to be a needless distraction. I don’t really see any downsides to this rule that was brought back to F1 after a long time without it. Yes, bringing it back for this season mightn’t have been the most-necessary thing ever, but neither has it been detrimental to anything or anyone, so I’m still 50-50 about it as I was at the beginning, by which, I mean before the season had started.
5. 

   Bleu (@bleu)
   27th August 2019, 7:31

   On the latter I think it’s to avoid confusion. Let’s say you have 1 minute and 45 seconds remaining and normal lap times are 1.43. So keeping the normal pace it means two more laps but presumably the leading driver would try to avoid starting new lap and this could cause some problems. The official will presumably keep chequered flag ready but (s)he can’t show it too early. The current rule makes it clearer when the race will actually end.

   I recall Monaco GP 1997 where Schumacher had very slow final lap just to avoid an extra lap: https://youtu.be/mYNcI-xxxyY?t=7422
   1. 

      Phylyp (@phylyp)
      27th August 2019, 8:42

      @bleu – good example and explanation, thank you
   2. 

      Alianora La Canta (@alianora-la-canta)
      28th August 2019, 14:56

      @blue Tactic used by Michael would remain valid. It’s just that, instead of getting a slow in-lap to do, say. 60 laps in 2 hours instead of 61 in 2 hours, you’d have a slow in-lap to do 61 laps in 2 hours + 1 lap rather than 62 laps in 2 hours + 1 lap.

      Of course, the +1 lap wouldn’t happen in a race that was only meant to be 60 laps in the first place (and +2 laps wouldn’t happen in a race that was meant to be 61 laps total). So eking out the extra lap would reduce the number of times the “hours” rule would get invoked.

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