Lando Norris, McLaren, Albert Park, 2020

Norris explains why real-world drivers prefer iRacing to F1 2019

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F1 2019 is ‘too much like an arcade game’ which is why real-world drivers prefer rival titles such as iRacing, according to Lando Norris.

Speaking to viewers on social media yesterday, Norris compared F1 2019 with iRacing and other popular motorsport games. He said the official F1 licence and popular PlayStation series Gran Turismo are “too much like arcade games.

“You don’t drive them anything like you do a real car,” Norris explained.

“iRacing is more like a simulation programme so you have better feedback through the wheel, it feels more realistic, basically. It’s more like a simulator in terms of how it feels through the wheel, the set-up changes and stuff.

“Whereas F1, Gran Turismo – especially Gran Turismo, Gran Turismo is terrible, it feels nothing like a car, you just slide everywhere. It’s rubbish because of that, that’s why no one does it.”

F1 2019 is used for the Virtual Grand Prix series
Norris, a prolific simracer, is one of just six F1 drivers who entered the official Virtual Grand Prix series which was launched this year. However technical problems thwarted his effort to compete in both events, and during the latter he removed the game from his system.

He did so after broadcasting a conversation with Max Verstappen, who criticised the official F1 game series, and has not joined the Virtual Grands Prix.

The game’s handling is “why Max doesn’t play”, said Norris, “because it’s nothing like an actual car. Whereas iRacing is a little bit like an actual car.”

“Would I recommend F1 games to serious racers?” he added, “No, iRacing or rFactor.” However Norris is due to return to F1 2019 to take part in the Race for the World series to raise money for the pandemic relief effort today.

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Sage Karam, who won the first round of IndyCar’s iRacing Challenge, has over a decade’s experience with the game and has seen how much it has progressed in that time.

Karam won IndyCar’s first iRacing Challenge
“I’ve been on iRacing since 2007 like when it was in beta mode,” he said yesterday. “So I’ve been a part of it for a long time.

“It’s just kind of always been the one I feel like when you go talk about major sim programs, it’s always the top one people talk about. I have all the other ones, but I’ve probably done like 10 laps on rFactor 2 and five laps on Assetto Corsa or whatever – I don’t even know what it’s called.

“I’ve just been a part of iRacing for a while, and it’s cool to see the progression of it, just from even a few years back when you’d have world championship races that iRacing had put together and everybody would be running those.

“Now the amount of money that’s coming into sim racing, you look at the NASCAR world championship series presented by Coca-Cola, it’s a $300,000 prize pool, which is like pretty incredible for sim racers. Porsche just put together a $250,000 or $200,000 prize pool for their championship, so the money is starting to get pretty huge in sim racing. People are starting to make a living, more so than honestly a lot of real race car drivers are getting paid. It’s pretty insane, the top guys.”

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Keith Collantine
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  • 102 comments on “Norris explains why real-world drivers prefer iRacing to F1 2019”

    1. I’ve never driven a real race car of any description. I assume not many of us here have.

      Yet we all knew this for a long, long time.

      1. I’m not sure about the sliding, Forza maybe but not GT which is one of the more realistic of the driving games.

        I say that because I racing, Assetto Corsa and r factor aren’t really games in the proper sense, they are simulations like flight simulations they aim for realism ignoring gamey ideas such as difficulty curves or that people might be playing for a bit of quick fun, they require commitment and to get the best out of them an investment in hardware that would be wasted on Gran Tourismo.

      2. You only need to drive a real car no matter what type and play these games and you will figure this out for yourself.

        1. My mate is a retired racing driver and absolutely loves gt sport and finds iracing beyond boring. Its subjective. I think most people just like the game they are best at.

      3. I used to race Mustang GT in SCCA and have said this for years they all Sim Racing games are garbage including Project Cars, Gran Turismo, Assetta Corsa. Etc. It is ridiculous that 200 mpg on those games feels the same as 40 mph. They are all lacking sense of speed which racing is all about. Project Gotham 4 was actually is one of the few games that was heading in the right direction for feel and sense of speed.

      4. This. Codemaster makes beautiful arcades.

    2. Joseph Newgarden on his practice stream for the next iRacing Challenge (at Michigan) said that he doesn’t consider the iRacing tyre model or the way the car handles to be realistic. He did compliment the accuracy of the tracks, and his race engineer said he enjoys the realistic strategy element — but Joseph didn’t seem to think the driving was very much like the real car.

      1. @exediron simracers also complain about the tyre model. It’s been ongoing since forever. The cold tyre glitch and all.

        To be fair Norris said iracing is “little bit like an actual car”. Like, it has its shortcomings but it’s closer.

        1. RIP Codemasters…..2020 and still making arcade games……after spending my time in Assetto Corsa, i dont like any other games at all…..even tho i spent hours on old games like GTR2…..

          1. Yep , after play Assetto Corsa Compte , I can’t even play iRacing….. I hope Codemaster is listening and reading these comments and make 2020 more Real tire model

          2. This, Asseto Corsa, GTR2, rFactor, those are the real sims.

            1. GTR 2 was a custom rFactor.

            2. Another in the list of simulators, but may be a bit less realistic is Project CARS, known before as Need For Speed Shift. Codemasters actually acquired them last year, just before coronavirus outbreak, so hopefully future versions of F1 will be based on Project CARS.

            3. And another option for Codemasters is to keep developing arcade game for casual gamers and console, and to add complete F1 season and experience into Project CARS 3.

          3. No, why shouldn’t Codemasters not make arcade racers?

            I for one prefer pick up and play racers and there is a market for them.

            My first F1 game was F1 2000 when I was 12. If it had been a sim game i would have stopped playing F1 games because of the difficulty.

      2. @exediron So Norris said:

        iRacing is a little bit like an actual car.

        That’s not the same as “very much” either.

      3. Another very interesting aspect of the Indycar iRacing, the drivers / teams using their lead engineers to assist with strategy! Pretty wild stuff.

      4. For me was quite the contrary,(I haven’t driven a race car so im comparing games), gran turismo I slide less than iracing, I tried the miata and was trying to kill me in every corner, like similar behaviour you would expect from dodge viper… the best feeling I got with wheels is assetto Corsa after tires reach the working temp. It feels really good

        Note I drive with almost all assist off in gt sport, (except for brakes, I use mild abs), the other games I use the real level of assistance the car would actually use in a real race)

        and YES F1 game IS SHYT

      5. rFactor 2 tyre model is better than iRacing. Considering that most F1 teams using rFactor Pro as their similar, it’s strange that F1 virtual reaching is based on Codemaster arcade.

        1. Their simulator*

        2. @regs rFactor Pro is only supplied for industry use – originally for driver in the loop simulations, though now they are branching out to trying to model autonomous driving as well – and the rights to that product are owned by a separate legal entity to that which has the rights for rFactor 2, so there cannot be any direct exchange of information or licences between the two companies as a result.

    3. Finally someone said it. I used to think the drivers where not allowed to say this as Verstappen only used this strange excuses. Codemasters only ever produced arcade games so no one should be surprised about this.

      1. It’s not meant to be a serious simulation, the game is made for controllers and casual players.

        1. @dk but they should be able to do both in one.

          Grand Prix 4 managed it in 2002.

        2. That’s fine. I love arcade games too. But I don’t think they should be used for eSports if we want them taken seriously.

          For a genuine competiton you need software with depth. Grand Prix drivers aren’t going to want to compete with control pads and driving aids.

      2. Verstappen is a spoiled brat without manners. With all the money his dad had, and he never recieved a proper education…
        He’s a low life the way he speaks and behaves…
        You can say like Norris said… but not like Verstappen said when he’s getting paid by F1. He bites the hand that gives him food.

        1. hahahahahaha you are funny

        2. Hakk the Rack
          11th April 2020, 19:39

          Totally agree. Manners, that’s something which’s missing quite often these days.

        3. Verstappen did receive good motorsport education and is ‘an above average’ driver.

          He also does sim racing at the highest level. Ge is best qualified in the world to make the argument.

        4. So having a real, unpolished opinion is being spoiled? Max speaks his mind, I give him thumbs up for that.

      3. Disagree. Codemaster’s Dirt Rally games are not arcade games.

        1. They are. I’ve driven rally cars. Dirt 2 is nothing like vicious as a real car. A child can drive that game.

          RBR is still the most realistic rally sim.

          1. Is Dirt Rally an Arcade Game? It feels pretty good imo but I’ve never driven a rally car. And how does Dirt Rally 2.0 compare to it? It looks even less realistic.

            1. Yeah Dirt 2 was very arcade, but when I fired up Dirt: Rally I immediately felt the difference.

              I’ve never driven a rally car, but have driven a lot on dirt at speed (grew up in rural South Australia) and I actually found Dirt: Rally easier because it felt so much more realistic. Easier at the start… but incredibly difficult to master.

    4. Robert McKay
      11th April 2020, 9:42

      An interesting article. What I’d like to hear next is how Lando compares “commercial” simulation games like iRacing and rFactor to the actual McLaren simulator. How much of a difference is there between them?

      Presumably there must still be a sizeable difference if iRacing is “a little bit like an actual car” and the McLaren simulator is actually useful for the real-life car.

      1. Mclaren got access to real data but Iracing and rfactor got a bigger budget so unless you are doing focused testing of specific things the games are the best simulators.

      2. Real simulators include team data plugins. The problem with F1 2019 is the model is too forgiving. You can catch almost any slide and not crash. It’s completely unrealistic. iRacing doesn’t offer that ease of driving.

    5. Todd (@braketurnaccelerate)
      11th April 2020, 10:02

      They should invite Scott Speed to their iRacing tournaments.

      1. Todd (@braketurnaccelerate)
        11th April 2020, 10:02

        Oh, wait…

      2. He was in the first 2 Indycar races this year

    6. Even Geoff Grammond’s Grand Prix series was more simulation than F1 Series by Codemasters..
      But Why would anyone try to comparea a game with the real thing? 99.99 % of people that will play F1 2019 will never get a chance to drive the real thing. It should be easy, if it was hard it wouldn’t sell and F1 franchising is not cheap (I would suppose Codemasters is paying a great amount of money to have the F1 official licence.) It’s not an FPS game that almost anyone playing games has played at least once in his lifetime.. It’s a racing game that is supposed to be addressing a huuuuge fanbase. And even if we like it or not, this huge fanbase will definitely not be interested in iracing’s or rfactor’s difficulty(=simulation).It’s a game that has to make money every year so it has to be easy… :(
      What I don’t get is why F1 racers are moaning about it and why F1 is not making do it as a PR thing. They have to go to a zillion PR stuff all year long, so why not do it and forget it’s a competition.. I would not care watching it if all took part. If it was advertised properly, as a PURELY entertaining thing just for fans and NOT a competition between drivers, it would have better chances at appealing to fans and it would do a great PR good to the game itself. Oh well… It must be just me…

      1. I think the problem is that the drivers aren’t interested in it if it’s not competitive. Probably some of them, but definitely not the majority.

      2. @vaiosp It’s not clear if all of them have the option. Even among those interested, lag is an issue – which can be due to contention ratios. I’ve got the second-best internet available in my location, and until last week it was the best, but due to the number of people spending all day streaming TV, there are still problems getting a reliable connection these days. Even if I wanted to swap to the best one, I’m stuck with this one for the next 14 months because of the contract, and even if I was out of contract, and allowed to fit it (the drilling involved would breach my tenancy agreement) it would take 3 weeks because it not only involves a change of provider, but also of cable technology (60 Mbps fibreoptic -> 392 Mbps ). F1 drivers are not immune to any of this, except that some would be able to pay the early cancellation fee more easily than me.

        Drivers who purchased their broadband just so they have some sort of home internet, rather than because they expected to use it for lots of online gaming or similar high-bandwidth activities would have much worse trouble joining in, and upgrades are low on telephone companies’ priority lists – their main aim now is to make sure their customers have some sort of service, and in some cases they’re doing this despite having to close some call centres due to staff getting sick.

        All of this assumes they have access to their computers at the necessary times. Any driver who is sharing a house with someone working from home will not be able to guarantee that access, unless they have a computer of their own that is compatible with both Steam and the (fairly high-requirement) needs of F1 2019. Delivery of computers is not considered high-priority on “general store” online company lists. That’s before considering that the organisers of Virtual GP seem to be going round with sims, that then need installation – minus the on-site technicians that would normally do this.

        Finally, some drivers are not quarantining alone. Drivers who are parents will be homeschooling and generally being a parent, those with elderly/vulnerable family members will be looking after them, those with brothers and sisters and other family staying with them taking their turn at family chores. All of these things would in normal circumstances be delegated (to a wife or other family members) but the very circumstances that make you ask this question may also be why they are having to do them, and why they might provide a time clash (that might not always be predictable).

      3. F1 racers are getting paid by the series. Verstappen recieves good checks, and Norris too, thats why they complain or behave like that.
        And because they are popular figures, they influence other people easily.
        Create your own opinions, and have fun with the game you like.
        Gran Tourismo is one of the greatest games ever to be created, call it rubbish is utterly stupid…

        1. You said “create your own opinions” but you don’t seem willing for them to have theirs. Gran Tourismo is a great game but if you’re judging it as an accurate simulation of driving a car, then I’d agree with them that it’s rubbish.

        2. NordsIsFantastic
          12th April 2020, 18:42

          True Gran Turismo is a great game I could agree with that. Great for those who are from arcade transitioning to Sim. But as for trying to fit in simulator racing game class is rubbish. Before you proceed, you need to know I have my own personal laptime in Nord both in game and real life. I had made test using 3 different games, which is PC2, AC, and GTS. I had tested all of them with my real life car (Toyota 86). All same spec such as standard tires and weather fairly the same or similar and track temperature too. Tests are lap time, 0-60, 0-100, braking(cancelled due to GTS having abs glitch at the time of the test), and wheelspin test during acceleration. In all of these test, Assetto Corsa being the most similar in almost every test adding to the fact they are track scanned. PC2 was kinda okey but the car went way too fast. This is also proved by one of my friend who rented/lend(idk) a 911. GT Sport on the other hand was….very fine actually. But it have this one thing that goes wrong severely. Traction and wheelspin. The wheelspin is so bad, that it affect all the other test. Apparently, this goes with almost every rear wheel drive cars in the game. You can do some of the test yourself tho. I had talked with some of the “nurburgring tourists” there and most of them agree and had tested the issue themselves (idk about it at first until I tested it on my own). Other than that, GTS is quite a fine game. Great starter game. Absolutely better than motorsports.

      4. Yes but Crammond’s games were very popular. I still remember the massive hype when GP2 came out in shops. I think you’re patronising the audience somewhat, you don’t need ‘arcade’ for a game to have mass appeal. Just looks at football manager and the suchlike.

      5. NordsIsFantastic
        12th April 2020, 18:23

        Dear oh dear. You must have be an arcade fan aren’t you? Racing games are divided into 3 category which is Sim (Rfactor, Assetto Corsa, IRacing), Semi Sim (Gran Turismo, Forza Motorsport), and Arcade (NFS). Sim Racing game are supposed to be realistic as possible no matter how hard the gameplay. Tbh, only arcade racing want an easy game. Which is why many nfs fanboys complaint about the cars in several sim title to be not fast or agile enough. F1 had given the right to Codemaster to make an official game but the fact it didn’t really portray the real vibe of F1 is an issue. And no, even if it is hard it would still get a lot of fans because look at the racing game market these days. How many big title for arcade and how many compared to sim racing. Sim racing is a developing game and sport. Plus, did you understand that it is supposed to be an event of Virtual Gran Prix? You’re bringing in real drivers. Ofcourse they would complaint.

        1. AC is by no means sim. It lies between arcade games like Dirt and sims like iRacing/.rFactor

    7. These F1 drivers are being enormously selfish. It’s not about the game. It’s about the sport. You do it for the fans.

      1. I have to agree.

        So what if Codemasters’ F1 game is a game, not a simulator? You have millions of fans out there who you could entertain massively by playing a computer game for an hour from your home. You don’t even have to put in much practice, we all know it’s a game and that it doesn’t compare to driving a real car. You won’t embarrass yourself by doing badly.

        Heck, it’d be great if you all played Mario kart and it was shown live. The game doesn’t matter, entertaining your fans and showing you want to do something for them at this time does. Complaining that the official F1 game is not good enough for you makes you sound like a whiney, spoiled teenage girl!

        1. @drmouse I don’t know – the comments from a number of posters here suggest they would prefer a more realistic game was used instead so it gave a closer approximation to an actual race, along the lines of what IndyCar are doing with iRacing: using the Codemasters game puts them off because the unrealistic behaviour gives a “cartoonish” vibe that broke the sense of immersion and made it less entertaining to watch.

          1. the comments from a number of posters here suggest they would prefer a more realistic game was used instead so it gave a closer approximation to an actual race

            This is true, and I would prefer that, too. But AFAIK F1 can’t do that due to the licensing agreements they have in place with Codemasters. You may as well wish for them to be back racing real cars on real circuits, as that’s got the same chance of happening right now. So, it’s the Codemasters game or nothing.

        2. The first erace was practically Mario Kart already. And it was almost unwatchable. The second one was a bit better, as it actually was a tiny step into a more realistic direction.

        3. How many times would your patience last trying to use a product that time after time fails again? AFAIK Norris has done two attempts, both times he was kicked out from online in the middle of the session. That’s how bad the multiplayer code currently is.

      2. Why does everyone act like Codemaster’s F1 game is the only choice for proper F1 eRacing. First it should be in VR, Period. Codemasters has lost the real eRacers with their ‘who needs VR’ attitude. That and drivers like LeClerc saying it is just an arcade game is wonderful.
        In the end, who really cares about a watching anyone play a game. I am the first to admit they are great fun to drive and I have spent many quarantine hours racing in VR, but to watch it as if it is real racing with consequences is a joke.
        As a true race fan for my entire life, I could care less about watching video games as a replacement for real racing.

        iRacing is nice, but it’s getting very old and out of date. I have many friends who love iRacing, but it is not nearly as accurate as they seem to advocate, but then again, most of them have never pushed a real car to it’s limits on a real track. Added to that everything in iRacing is a DLC micro transaction, everything.

        The future of eRacing is VR, once you’ve done it, the immersion and realism is so far superior to racing on a pancake (ie..Flat Screen), you can never go back. The newest releases are showing VR can be done properly and efficiently to fantastic effect; even some old pre VR race titles are amazing in VR.

        eRacing is great fun, but to spend an afternoon watching it on tv is beyond me. ( no I am not going to start a war on which games I play in VR, but to be sure, Codemaster’s F1 is not among them for the reason that Charles stated, it is just an arcade game.

        1. Problem with VR is that for many it’s just nauseating and with a race sim it’s even worse. Many top drivers can only do short sessions in a simulator because what their inner ear is telling them is different to whats going on. VR only makes that worse. That’s the real issue with sims. There are just too many inputs missing for it to be like the real thing. Even full motion platforms can’t convey the forces involved.

        2. I bet if you sat down and watched the races Indy car has done you might change your mind. They have been fun to watch. The race today was amazing. It had everything from long green runs swapping of the lead and in the end strategy won and lost the race for some guys at the end

          1. If you watched the irace at bristol with the real nascar drivers you would see the limitations of that game clearly exposed. Poor net code and bad tyre modelling being the most obvious.

    8. I played f1 codemaster f1 one weekend. It lasted about 10minutes. It was just awful.

      Went back to gtr2 , microscope gp 4 and grand prix legends.

      I dont mind the race on series either

      As the other posters say they make arcade games and that is.

      The last good game they made was to toca 2

      1. Speaking of GPL, Goodwood 1965 was just released yesterday :).

    9. Yeah iRacing is way more suited for this, but I assume F1 had to go this way for commercial reasons. F1 2019 isn’t suited for this at all.

      And I like that game but its not something I would use for this type of event thats supposed to replace actual racing with real F1 drivers.

      1. Very true, sad that F1 chose Codemasters for their F1 game. Each year it is an upgrade without listening to what fans want. VR… Lap time data… data from all my cars and tracks… lively cars that are not stuck on rails and I could go on. How about just fix the bugs they move from one years game to the next by copy and pasting so much of previous game into the newer games.

        After owning Codemaster F1 games for a decade, their entire platform just doesn’t work. If I want to race 2010 up to 2019, I must install each game separately. I don’t want to have 10 versions of each F1 track loaded, but since each game is a stand alone, that is what happens…. such a waste of space and resources. That is why Modular games work so well, you can actually race any year on any track, even against each other. It is so much fun to put the V10’s up against today’s Hybrids, close on time, but oh so different everywhere else.

    10. The biggest problem with the F1 game is the bad coding. So bugs and crashes are some things that have be constantly monitored and dealt with. As has been demonstrated by Lando himself, who must have had crashes at every event so far.
      Which is a problem, because it stands in the way of having atleast a fun event with some F1 drivers.
      The route of a more realistic sim racing F1 event is out because of the licensing of the F1 game.
      You would expect codemaster to try and bring a patch out to address those problem so that events would run more smoothly and have themselves the bad press that comes with it at the moment.

      1. The big question is: why Norris being a videogame pro, cannot have a proper internet connection to play F1??? Or is he boycotting F1 because he’s payed by the other series… Suspicious at least. And Verstappen another pro gamer, leaved them in the sand, when he promotes himself as being the best pro gamer in f1.

      2. @SadF1fan Codemasters has the same restrictions as everyone else right now. While I am sure they are working on patches, it’s more difficult to do that in these times than usually. And some of these issues are ones that I think have affected the franchise and had attempted patches applied (in previous entries) already.

        1. Well, for a software company like Codemasters, it is most likely easier for them to work from home, and resume things more as normal than other lines of business. The technical issues that would come from it can be quickly addressed by a company that specializes in software programming.

          And given that some of these bugs have existed for multiple version of F1 game, it seems that the priority to solve these bugs is quite low. It could have something to do with the business model of these games, a new version has to be released for every season. But then i’m speculating.

      3. You can’t just patch fundamentally badly structured code. There’s probably deep seated issues that are very difficult to amend without a complete rewrite.

    11. let us hope that sim developers, physics and tyre modelers, will get much more impressions from real drivers and improve their product.
      driver inputs, setup and environmental changes have approximately same effect on the behaviour of the sim car as the real one. also check Automobilista 2, new kid in the sim arena.

      1. They will only “improve” the product if there is any demand for it and it isnt.

        1. LOL… have you been to any sim racing forum?!? all rainbows and unicorns praising developers and begging them to take the money to only create new content for their perfect implementation of vehicle dynamics and tyre models

    12. The reason F1 uses the Codemasters games is because there the officially licensed product that features all of the F1 tracks & cars.

      iRacing is a better simulator but it doesn’t feature all the F1 cars or circuits & getting them all in the sim isn’t something that they could do quickly & it certainly isn’t something they could do year on year given how much time/effort it takes just to get 1 car ready for release.
      It’s easier with a spec category like Indycar as your just getting data from 1 chassis supplier, With F1 featuring 10 teams with different cars it becomes far harder, Especially given how teams are reluctant to give them all the necessary data from modern cars. Hence why you only see older models.

      Codemasters brief is to make a game that is accessible for the masses & which can be played just as well with a gamepad as it can a wheel. They do work with drivers (Anthony Davidson has worked closely with them since 2009) to try & come up with handling that makes sense without been too deep for the casuals or too difficult with a pad. If you go back many years & look at the Richard Burns Rally sim for instance, It didn’t sell all that well because most found it far too difficult. Those looking for a super deep rally sim loved it & still play it but that crowd is tiny compared to the wider audience that will make up 90%+ of overall sales.

      You also have 2 different sales models. You can just buy the Codemasters games & have the full package while iRacing is a subscription model where you need to buy each car/circuit individually depending on what you want to race which again limits it’s appeal as not everyone wants to spend as much as may be necessary.

      It’s also interesting what he says about Gran Turismo given how I know drivers who play that & believe it’s one of the better console ‘simulators’ as far as the handling feel goes. I’ve heard a few say that the Forza Motorsport games feel less real as the cars want to slide too much with a tire model that feels like your driving on soap.

      1. Some of the older iterations of the Gran Turismo series did have some fairly noticeable bugs that were raised to the developers, but never fixed. I recall one iteration – one of the more recent ones as well – had completely broken wet weather physics that meant you could drive more quickly with slick tyres than intermediate or full wet tyres on what was meant to be a completely soaked track.

      2. Latests versions of F1 CODEMASTERS are broken, cannot be used with a pad…
        Last version that worked more or less was 2013…

    13. I couldn’t agree more.

    14. F1 cars used to break down all the time. Now they’re very reliable. It took decades to get where we are now. I don’t know how difficult it would be to make F1 2019 “better” to drive, but if the drivers in this simulated season put down their suggestions maybe the manufacturer (Is it Codemasters?) could look at them and may be able to improve the game.
      One point is that if a driver is going to be given the sense of the car driving on a track, then that requires feedback to the steering system. So it isn’t just the game that has to be programmed to create the necessary sensations, but also the steering system has to be built to accept signals from the game console or your computer to give you that sensation.

    15. José Lopes da Silva
      11th April 2020, 15:07

      I played a lot of Geoff Crammond’s Grand Prix 2 and Grand Prix 3.
      Videogames should be as realistic as possible.
      Simracers take simracing seriously. And lots of viewers also want to watch real races.
      In understand Johnny Herbert can’t take a game too seriously, but he should not behave like a Foitek on a videogame.
      If it is for the fun, there are tons of gameplay videos online or maybe and could go and just play myself. Why would I care to watch Vettel and Hamilton playing Super Mario Kart? They could be playing Tekken or chess or something.
      I don’t understand how can a 2019 F1 videogame be less realistic than a 2000 one.

      1. I too was disappointed in the way Johnny Herbert drove in the first race. I don’t know how seriously he took the second race, but he seemed to spend a lot of time being last. I don’t know which team he drives for, but he shouldn’t be surprised if they will want to replace him soon.

    16. Jean-Simon C.
      11th April 2020, 15:10

      Raceroom is the best

    17. José Lopes da Silva
      11th April 2020, 15:13

      And please, don’t bring the “it’s too difficult” argument. Grand Prix 2 and 3 had five (5!) difficulty levels. Everyone could master the Rookie and Amateur levels with all the driving aids on. You could make a quick race with 3 laps and skip qualifying. You could do it with a keyboard and have an extra steering help. You could choose to do a championship with 10% race distance. You could do everything – but still the game tried to be as closer to a simulator as possible.

      1. but still the game tried to be as closer to a simulator as possible.

        And as a result they didn’t sell all that well, Certainly not anywhere near as well as the more arcades competition. The EA Sport F1 games from the early 2000’s sold better on PC than the Crammond titles did despite been nowhere near as simulation.
        The ‘sim racing’ market in terms of those who want something to be as close to a simulator as possible is very small & everytime something has tried to go more towards the sim side or bridge the gap it’s failed to sell as well as the games that lean more towards the arcade side of things.

        The Sim’s like the Grand Prix Series have an audience, But it isn’t the audience that allows it to sell millions of copies in the same was the Codemasters titles do. I mean for all it’s faults Gran Turismo 5 was the best selling title on PS3 which is why Sony/Polyphony have largely stuck to the formula that title provides. If GT5 had come out more like iRacing it wouldn’t have done that well.

        1. @roger-ayles whilst there was the option to drive the series in a way that was oriented towards a more arcade direction, the physics engine that was used for EA’s F1 Challenge ’99-’02 game (the ISIMotor engine) went on to be used by ISI in the rFactor series – and that is quite definitely considered to be a simulator.

          Weren’t there other criticisms about the Grand Prix Series that also explain why it wasn’t as successful – particularly as the later releases were criticised for an increased number of bugs and being difficult to mod (something quite popular in that market).

          Also, it has to be said that the official F1 games don’t actually sell millions of copies. In the past, it seems the best selling version of that game – F1 2015 – managed to sell about 1 million copies, but that was an exception: most of their other games didn’t even crack 400,000 copies, and even 350,000 was something of a stretch. There is increased vagueness about total sales for the latest iteration, but the indication is that it’s somewhere between 200,000 and 500,000 copies sold.

          In that sense, a number of the hardcore simulators aren’t actually all that far off in terms of their total sales, as some games such as rFactor 2 are actually in that same sales bracket (even if the peak number of concurrent players is much lower).

    18. The general argument against sim racing is the lack of g-forces. Which is valid. But, how I won the argument against my real racing buddy was..

      Drive a real car for a few laps. Then put on a blindfold and see how much you need g-forces to drive.

      For the unaware, you can’t do laps blindfolded. At all. Which makes the visuals of driving about 99% of driving. With g-forces being almost nill.

      What I love about sim racing is, racecraft works. If you are good at picking lines, sim racing works. If you are good maintaining momentum through a turn, sim racing works. If you are good at throttle and brake control, sim racing works. If you are good at slingshot passes, sim racing works. If you are good at dialing your machine, sim racing works. Sim racing works.

      But if they really had their act together, they would put a race rig inside a MRI like machine programmed to turn magnets on as ‘g-forces’ build up. The driver or flight pilot then wears a chainmail suit from head to toe. The magnets would pull the driver to the direction of the ‘g-forces’. Granted, it will not impart inertia to your internal organs and muscles, but it would force the pilot to fight the magnetic force in their arms legs and head. A chainmail head dress would pull your neck muscles. If you crest a hill, it would lift you out of your seat. Etc, etc. Perpetual pulling forces. No simulator anywhere in the world imparts perpetual forces. They only give you a few seconds at best.

      Now, someone go build it.

    19. How realistic or not the Codemasters games are has never been something that’s especially bothered me because I still enjoy playing them & think they feel more than good enough for what i’m looking to get out of them. I’m not a big online gamer (Outside of some shooters) so i’m usually just racing offline against ai or hot-lapping & for that I have a lot of fun in the F1 Games.

      I do also play some of the more sim oriented titles on PC (Automobilista, Assetto Corsa etc…) but while i’ve tried iRacing in the past i’ve never really got much out of it as it’s way too serious for what i’m looking for. I’m more jump in & drive/have fun & I don’t think iRacing is as geared towards that as others are.

      1. @stefmeister agree 100%. I probably only get a couple of hours a month to do some “sim” racing; I want to be able to hop on, get the feeling back quickly and enjoy a couple of races in the little time I have.

        I have friends who are into iRacing (or at least were, since kids many have dropped out), and they are constantly practicing, refining, spending hours upon hours in their rigs. That’s not an issue if you have the time… I wish I had the time.

        Codemasters needs the F1 games to appeal to the broadest audience possible, most of which have absolutely no idea what it feels like to drive a car, let alone drive a car fast.

        Not to mention, F1 cars are actually really difficult to drive. That’s why the drivers who do are paid the ludicrous amounts they are. If it did happen to be a true and perfect simulation, the audience would be incredibly limited. The sales figures would be in the hundreds, not the millions.

    20. Finally one of the F1 drivers have come out and said that F1’s current sim is just an arcade game.

      But interesting to hear even iRacing is not really close to the real thing.

      I really wish F1 could embrace iRacing and help them develop something that’s close to how a real F1 car feels like and behaves. I would be properly excited to try that!

    21. I’d they made the official F1 game an accurate simulator that Lando and Max would like, it would sell less copies and many fans of the series would hate it.

      The current circumstances seem to have brought in a different crowd to watch esports and if enough of them stick around once normal sports is back, I’m sure F1 may look at things differently. Prior to the pandemic, they picked the option that makes the most money and that is a fun, arcadey game like Codemasters make where you can use a controller and be competitive.

    22. As for the economics with iRacing being fee based membership and Codemasters people’s arcade racer selling more, F1 should think more about the unattainability and exclusivity that made it what it is. F1 is elite, not for the masses. Maybe it currently makes a few millions on games sales, but the difference in value and reputation (brand) of the sport with a burgeoning eSports scene well makes up for that in the long run if it’s seen to be top quality and pricey, just like in real life, and not a laughing stock cheapo money-grabber arcade game.

    23. I don’t really get his comments on Gran Turismo, I got a feeling Lando hasn’t played GT Sport. Even though it’s not as realistic as iRacing or rFactor 2, it is far from the worst sim racing experience. Stating it is worse than F1 2019, well, sorry Lando, but that’s just not the case.

      GT Sport is a simcade game, thanks to the added (camera) options and ‘dumbing’ stuff down, not because it’s an ass arcade game as F1 2019 is.

    24. I guess I’m in a minority of one, but ‘e’ and ‘sports’ in my opinion have nothing to do with each other.
      Let’s call it what these what they are, eGames NOT eSports
      It’s like having a ‘game’ with virtual track and field athletes and you control their legs and arms, are you saying that makes it a ‘sport’ – Let’s get real here, these are ‘games’ and nothing else. Sure you can be the best game player but that does NOT make it a sport.
      The most overweight couch potato could in theory best the best prepared athlete – How much G-Force can you feel on you couch anyway…
      No wonder kids are getting more sedentary and consequently, unhealthy, if we keep sending them messages like, sit on your backside and twiddle your fingers and that counts are a real sport.

      1. There are many sports where fatsos do well. Even track and field. As for simracing, Leclerc and Russell have just said they were sweating like pigs during the last race, and said it’s possibly even more intense than the real thing, so you still have to be pretty trained and the top simracers are mostly fit.

        1. @balue if you go to the high end of the simulator sector, it can indeed be quite physical – the high end hydraulic pedal kits that some offer can be dialled up to take brake pedal force loads in excess of 130kg, because they are designed such that the person using them can replicate the sort of physical effort that an F1 driver or an LMP1 driver would need to.

          Similarly, if you go to the direct drive wheels that are out there, they are pretty powerful and can require a lot of physical effort. I suspect that if Alvaro was to try out what the high end was capable of, he might take back some of his comments…

          1. It’s not so much the physical factor of the steering wheel and pedals that makes them sweat but rather the high level of concentration, which elevates the heart rate. With a high heart rate the body can get overheated and sweating is a way the body cools itself.
            That’s why you can sweat a lot just by standing in front of a crowd giving a speech. You’re not doing anything physical but your heart can sure be beating fast because of you’re nervous and full of fear.

            1. ben, that is not to deny that there are the psychological effects from the concentration, but it is to point out that Alvaro’s comments about it being so easy is to point out that claiming there is no physical effort is incorrect.

      2. SIM racing is most definitely a sport. It’s another discipline of racing (the only one growing atm too.) You have no idea the amount of skill, commitment, and work it takes to run at the highest levels on iRacing.

        There is a very good reason the “pro” NASCAR and Indy car drivers weren’t thrown in against the real Pro Sim Racers. They’d have exactly as much chance of success as one of the Sim pros would have if they were dropped into a 900hp car against professionals.

        You say because there are no g forces that means it’s not a sport. That is utterly ridiculous. I’ve done both, and those g forces give you a heck of a lot of info about what your car is doing that are totally absent in a sim. The best analogy is Sim racing is just like driving a racecar with half your senses tied behind your back.

        Of the two sim racing is the more difficult. You don’t have to be in as good a shape because the g’s and more importantly the sweltering heat are absent. But so what? Pro Bowlers, Golfers, and Baseball players don’t have the endurance of Tennis pros, or Marathon runners. Go tell a Baseball player he isn’t an athlete.

        Bottom line pro Sim racers are without a doubt athletes whether you choose to acknowledge the fact is irrelevant as it won’t affect the $330,000 payout from the Coca Cola iRacing eNASCAR Championship this year or into the future.

    25. I use project cars on ps4 which is a good middle ground, you can neuter it so its more playable for casual gamers or take the aids off for more realism.

      I don’t like PC gaming, its too difficult to get them running reliably.

      F12019 isn’t a sim but it would be a commercial flop if it was.

      Codemasters do ‘dirt’ which is arcadey and sells well and ‘dirt rally’ which is a sim and sells about a dozen copys world wide and is basically unplayable unless you can put a huge amount of time to it.

      1. Adrian Garnham
        12th April 2020, 12:22

        Dirt rally and Dirt rally 2 have both sold more copies than dirt 4. Both can be dumbed down to be playable by a toddler with a controller. Do you miss the flashback/rewind feature removed from the dirt rally games at the communities request or are you just misinformed?

      2. Rally 2 is by no means sim. My 5 year old can drive it fast with no assists.

        1. I think Rally 2 was softened as I read somewhere that the producer realised that they probably went too far with Dirt: Rally.

    26. Live for Speed to this day still has the most natural feel of driving a car. If you haven’t go try it out – https://www.lfs.net/downloads

      As for Codemasters F1 – pure garbage. I don’t understand why they don’t aim for a realistic base then layer the driving aids on top for the casuals? Maybe things will improve for F1 2021 now they have access to the Project Cars 3 game and physics engines.

      1. I completely agree. I don’t know about how much lfs is a “sim” under a strict definition.

        But lfs “feels” more like a real car than anything else I’ve driven as far as road racing is concerned.

    27. I don’t care what anyone says, GT Sport is the best looking racing game out there, pound for pound. The handling feels a lot more grounded and realistic compared to F1, I’m not sure what he means by sliding about. The point is not to slide, unless you are in a rally car.

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