Reintroducing customer cars in Formula 1 has been proposed because big teams want to “manipulate” the performance of their rivals, says Haas team principal Guenther Steiner.
Red Bull team principal Christian Horner last week suggested allowing teams to sell old designs to rivals in order to reduce the smaller teams’ costs.But Steiner suspects the proposal is intended to prevent smaller teams competing with their richer rivals when the budget cap comes into force next year.
“I think that plan [at] the moment is not actually relevant any more because all the smaller teams have found a way how to work,” he told Ziggosport.
“To be honest, we don’t want to get more money. We just want that the big teams work on a smaller budget so we can be more competitive with them. Therefore they say ‘now we should have customer cars’ so the big teams manipulate our performance.”
“They now just try to put something in place to make sure that we cannot get too close to them,” he added.
Haas uses Ferrari’s power unit, gearbox and some suspension parts but Steiner believes they would be less competitive if they had to use a complete Ferrari design from the previous season. “A year-old Ferrari, I don’t think it would be faster than our car this year, to be honest.”
The start of the new F1 season has been on hiatus for over a month. Steiner added Formula 1 is making “good progress” with plans to begin racing later in the year. “There is a good prospect that we go to race in Austria in the beginning of July,” he said.
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“There’s a few things to be sorted out still basically with the health and safety, they need to check people going there, that they are healthy, that they don’t carry the virus. FOM is working on that and I think when they get that all figured it out, they will announce it. Hopefully next two to three weeks FOM will say something official to everybody and stop the speculation and we look forward to go racing again.”
He expects “some of the races” will have to take place behind closed doors, “but I think we will have some of the races with spectators – I don’t think that there will be a whole season without spectators.”
“I think if we get two races in July, then maybe three in August, I think we have a good start. And then I think we can go to Asia because by then Asia should be free of the virus or [have it] under control anyway.
“So I think that would be a good plan and I think FOM is working on that one. And maybe they want to throw a second race in Silverstone. But I think first you have to see what is coming after July.”
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2020 F1 season
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- F1 revenues fell by $877 million in Covid-struck 2020 season
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- F1 audience figures “strong” in 2020 despite dip in television viewers
Sensord4notbeingafanboi (@peartree)
20th April 2020, 16:05
Listen to Steiner. Sky loves the idea of costumer cars, why? Makes absolutely no sense.
BasCB (@bascb)
20th April 2020, 19:23
Yup, good to see him say it as it is. Surely being institutionally second tier is not what is going to rock Gene Haas’ boat and keep him in the sport. Nor will it do so for Renault, or Lance Stroll to name some.
And yeah, It seems this is again a situation where Sky is at the front of pushing ideas that are supported by some in the paddock (Red Bull, Ferrari and in the past Ecclestone). I do wonder why that is too.
Phylyp (@phylyp)
20th April 2020, 19:40
@bascb – Advertising revenue?
BasCB (@bascb)
20th April 2020, 19:45
Sure, probably. But somehow it doesn’t make sense @phylyp. The engines were talked down so much that it must have hurt their viewing numbers. And giving in to the stupid ideas of Horner / Red Bull and Ferrari here is also not going to bring them any more eyeballs on the footage.
Phylyp (@phylyp)
20th April 2020, 19:54
@bascb – yeah, those are good counterpoints.
I forgot who it was who mentioned it some years ago – F1 is rare/unique in that it is one sport that criticizes itself pointlessly (i.e. not as self-improvement). :)
BasCB (@bascb)
20th April 2020, 20:00
It was Bernie, Horner/Marko who strated it (before testing even began) Brundle jumped in quite early (influenced probably by Bernie) and I think Ted was quick to pick it up too, after Ferrari had joined in as soon as they learned their engine wasn’t up there either.
anon
20th April 2020, 23:46
@bascb in the case of Brundle, there are other aspects of his career that probably explain his interest in the idea of customer cars.
When he entered F1 in the early 1980s, customer cars were, although less prevalent than before, just about still around. The idea of private customers buying and racing old cars was still going in 1982, only a couple of years before Brundle entered, and the 1984 Osella FA1F, which was contemporary with Brundle, was based around an Alfa Romeo 183T chassis that Alfa Romeo had basically gifted to Osella, which was basically a customer Alfa Romeo team in all but name.
It is also worth remembering that Brundle had a fairly lengthy career in sportscar racing, and at that time customer cars were being actively encouraged and were extremely prevalent. The Porsche 962 was a huge sales hit in Brundle’s day – about 90 cars from Porsche itself, and then several dozen privately modified and rebuilt privateer chassis also exist as well – but they weren’t alone: you’ve had the likes of Sauber and Nissan also selling off cars.
On top of that, you also had the traditional independent chassis manufacturers making cars for sale to independent teams, such as Lola, Tiga and Courage in earlier years, through Zytek and Dome to the current era and the likes of Gibson, Oreca, Ligier and Dallara.
Brundle has shown a strong ongoing passion for sportscar racing to this day – don’t forget that, back in 2012, he took part in the 24 Hours of Le Mans – and, in that discipline, customer cars are accepted as a normal part of how those series operate. Given his experiences in seeing customer cars in use in other motorsport disciplines during his formative years, it is probably not surprising that he is much more open to the idea given that it’s been something he’s been so familiar with over his career.
Sensord4notbeingafanboi (@peartree)
21st April 2020, 9:46
Thanks for your input anon. we can see how buying a car from another team might fulfill a purpose. Like Steiner put it, racing x team last years car is going to be slower than their opponents and their own effort, it creates an artificial competition where the problem shifts from realising that every season no one can reach the establishment to the problem of having, by default, absolutely no chance of challenging the top.
Robbie (@robbie)
21st April 2020, 15:05
Steiner is being ridiculous on this. Where to start. First off, nobody would be forcing a team to buy a customer car. It might be an option they might look at if things get financially dire enough for the smaller teams. If Steiner says money is not the issue for them at Haas, then fine don’t buy a customer car. Continue on buying your current half-Ferrari. If you think that would be faster than a previous year’s Ferrari, great, but you’re a fool if you think a half-Ferrari would ever be a top 3 car or that they would allow you to beat them with it, so, so much for your manipulation by the teams argument.
Furthermore, did Steiner actually think Haas was suddenly going to be fighting for wins and Championships over the next two seasons? How would a couple of years of having a few lesser teams able to buy customer cars and go racing until they can build themselves back up financially, change the general running order on the grid? Was Haas going to be so competitive that the thought of them having a full customer car would be such a downgrade? Guess he thinks so, so as I said, then don’t buy one…particular don’t buy a RBR car then if you feel you would somehow be manipulated moreso than you are now. Actually maybe you Mr. Steiner should encourage the few teams that might buy last year’s cars to do so if you think they will be so uncompetitive. It will help put a few team behind you, no?
Horner has said this would be temporary as he muses about ways they can ensure a full grid remains intact after all is said and done from the effects of the pandemic. That’s all. He’s talking about how they(F1) can ensure a full 10 team grid and how all the teams should want that. I don’t see Horner insisting on this…insisting that this is the only way to go. If nobody wants to go that route, fine. As Horner implies F1/Liberty otherwise will likely have to cut some cheques then, in order to help a few teams survive and allow them to maintain a 10 team grid. Horner is thinking about the overall health of F1, and there is no reason he would need to hold teams back with a customer car as Steiner is erroneously suggesting, when they (the teams that might need and accept help) were never a threat to RBR anyway.
Yes Mr. Steiner, in theory as the next three to five years play out the top teams will have been curtailed financially, giving the lesser teams a better chance to be competitive against them, but that was not going to be the case immediately. The customer car idea is meant to weather the storm we’re in over the next couple of years until they can be back to normal and onto the revolutionary new cars which obviously every team will have to build from scratch…even you, Haas. You weren’t going to be taking your half-Ferrari very far up the grid anytime soon anyway.
Is the concept of customer cars ideal? Of course not. But what is ideal about what the world is going through right now? What would you, Mr. Steiner propose then for the struggling teams? Or would you rather just sit on your high mid-field-at-best horse, and shoot down those that are at least trying to brainstorm ideas?
Coefficient
20th April 2020, 22:37
There is never any good news about f1 anymore.
@HoHum (@hohum)
21st April 2020, 0:33
What a drag !
I have an opinion
21st April 2020, 1:16
Are the Racing Point, Alfa Romeo, Alpha Tauri and Haas not de facto customer cars already? At least one of these teams has expressed the deluded ambition to compete with its “technology partner”.
Alianora La Canta (@alianora-la-canta)
21st April 2020, 18:06
Of these, only Alpha Tauri is anything close to a customer car, and even they have been trying to make more of their own car in recent years.
DB-C90 (@dbradock)
21st April 2020, 5:05
I doubt that current teams may be looking for a customer car solution BUT what about any new teams that will/may be required if some of the current ones fall over this year or some elect to withdraw.
There’s a high likelihood of either of the above happening – wouldn’t allowing full customer cars assist any new team wanting to join in getting up and running in the short time it will have to start racing. Give them a couple of years or so to run on a tight budget & get established.
Without it, I doubt any business is likely to entertain joining F1 in the current economic climate, so I don’t see the idea of customer cars as being a bad one if its a case of having a field of cars or not having enough cars running.
Velocityboy (@velocityboy)
21st April 2020, 12:45
Depending on the contract that was signed it may not be too bad a thing. If for example, Williams were to buy a year old Mercedes, then reverse engineer it, they could get their own design and development back on track and start developing their own car again from a position of greater strength. As the big teams are likely to have a performance gap and then increase it over the years, buying a car every 5 years or so may not be a bad idea for the smaller teams so long as they don’t have to sign a long term contract in order to do so.
Alianora La Canta (@alianora-la-canta)
21st April 2020, 18:05
I cannot see any team joining F1 in the near future, no matter what ruleset it uses, simply because of the uncertainty in the world and F1’s prior record of not being truthful to incomers (the 2010 teams particularly, but also to some extent Haas). This despite the 2010 teams being invited into F1 as an act of desperation because at one point it looked like there would be 2 teams on the grid otherwise… What reason would an incoming team have to think that this time, the FIA has mysteriously decided to stay true to its word?
Any change to the rules done now (and one should be very conservative about this until the post-COVID-19 recession shows signs of receding, since motorsport is usually late in and late out of recessions) needs to be done with the aim of keeping teams in. Customer cars, if anything, would oppose that.
Remember that Haas is one of several teams (and three distinct approaches) who have already found a compromise between creating everything on the chassis themselves and creating none of it. The current teams are all, it seems, struggling to similar extents under the quarantine. Customer cars would require mass dismissals and disruption, and at this point it would affect them across an entire regulation cycle… …all to permanently pin them at a second-tier level of performance. (The Racing Point designed to vaguely resemble last year’s Mercedes is itself a combination test of new ways of working, and a stop-gap to allow maximum focus on the next design cycle. That cycle was hoped to get them past the second-tier).
There is no reason for Haas to want to be permanently pinned at an inferior performance level. If they’re going to be slow, they’d rather be slow on their own terms. Proving a slow design is slow is literally worthless to them, and there’s no particular reason it has value for any current team. Because of all this, if the FIA permitted customer teams, there’s a risk that current teams (especially Gene Haas!) would think the FIA is willing to do anything to backstab the current teams, and therefore leave. Remember only Renault is currently committed to F1 beyond this year…
Customer cars haven’t made sense in F1 since the leap in budget that occurred under wealthy sponsors in the late 1990s. They make less sense now than ever before. Guenther is right.
Robbie (@robbie)
21st April 2020, 21:29
@alianora-la-canta Not sure why you think this would be permanent. Horner has spoken of two years, and I envision that then they would all be needing to make their own cars based on the new-for-what-was-2021 regs. That is, unless F1 does agree that it would be prudent to still temporarily assist the teams that would have theoretically (remains to be seen) been decimated financially. Perhaps the better solution will simply be financial aid that will help any teams needing it, to maintain a 10 team grid until everyone is back to their ‘normal’ level of self sufficiency. Whatever they decide is prudent to get through this storm, and that can only be speculation for now, it will be temporary. Let’s not forget that while teams aren’t making money, they’re also not spending it like they would be if they were racing.
Alianora La Canta (@alianora-la-canta)
22nd April 2020, 19:35
@robbie Temporary customer cars would, if anything, be even worse. All that disruption and enforced slowness in one regulation cycle, only to have all that disruption to reverse the process (and some slowness in the next cycle, compared to not going to customer cars in the first place, simply due to a frantic attempt to catch up).
rob91
21st April 2020, 21:29
It’s a good idea to allow customer cars because this means that a team like Ferrari, Mercedes or Red Bull Racing can save a fortune on R&D costs by purchasing a car from a team like Haas, Racing Point or Williams, those teams can then make more money by selling their cars to these richer teams and in theory the racing will become more competitive which will make the spectators happy, everyone wins!