Sebastian Vettel, Ferrari, Albert Park, 2020

Webber sees loss of motivation in Vettel at Ferrari

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In the round-up: Mark Webber believes his former team mate Sebastian Vettel’s form has dipped at Ferrari due to a loss of motivation.

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@Dallein is feeling relieved about not buying tickets for two of the races which were cancelled yesterday:

I was literally two clicks away from buying tickets to Singapore and Japan before this hysteria started in February.

I was stopped only by my girlfriend asking to wait several days before she can re-arrange her plans…

I feel really bad for all affected by cancellations.
@Dallein

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Keith Collantine
Lifelong motor sport fan Keith set up RaceFans in 2005 - when it was originally called F1 Fanatic. Having previously worked as a motoring...

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  • 54 comments on “Webber sees loss of motivation in Vettel at Ferrari”

    1. That Sam Bird article was exactly what I needed tonight.

      1. Sam Bird’s parents are not the only ones who’ve put everything into getting their child in motor racing, Esteban Ocon and Alexander Albon had similarly determined parents. I don’t for the life of me understand why I keep reading that Lawrence Stroll isn’t that kind of parent and he’s going to bin Lance next year and replace him with XXX. It ain’t gonna happen.

        (XXX is currently Vettel)

        1. I am excited to watch Ocon again, I suspect it will be very interesting. As a Lower Canadian, I almost always disparage Lance at every opportunity. But he is here to stay.
          I bet Vettel actually is having the time of his life right now!

          1. As a Lower Canadian, I almost always disparage Lance at every opportunity.

            @ferrox-glideh – this made me chuckle :)

            Regional differences, the rivalries they produce and the jokes they spawn always interest and amuse me.

            So, please enlighten this non-Canadian: which part of Canada is Lance from, and where are you from, and what’s the rivalry involved? Is it geography, language, ice-hockey team, flavour of maple syrup, or something else?

            1. @phylyp Lance is from Montreal, Quebec.

            2. The rivalries between Canadian regions are almost completely trivial. We all enjoy complaining about whiny rich kids, and are united in this manner. Quebec is an interesting province, as is British Columbia and Nova Scotia. Check ’em out!

      2. @ferrox-glideh I couldn’t agree more. Interesting reading that article.

    2. Kind of related to Norris’ loss of followers and now the Hamilton “threat”.
      I dont think that F1 fans – or people bothered by social issues comments by f1 drivers – are racists or against a solution for those problems.
      One should not discount that some reactions to those comments from come tiredness with everything going right now.
      Whoever can work is having some hard days. Those who cant, even harder days. At the end of the day that person goes on social media to check what its favorites sportpeople have to say about sports and find a political statement – and now some kind of threat. I think some people just flip off. “The hell I dont follow this semidumb* rich privileged guy to be lecture about a problem i cant see him doing a lot about when he is traveling in his private jet or in this apartment in Monaco.”
      Somehow is the inverse effect of you seeing a tweet from your Central Bank Chair giving tips on kettle bell training while inflation rages.
      Far from me to suppress the right of a F1 driver to express themselves as a citizen. But some people are just tired and expected F1 could bring some relieve not further pulling you back into daily problems.
      *semidumb – a person with expertise in a highly specialized field with little/no experience or knowledge on other matters in life.

      1. The marketing people hate you, but I like you.

      2. I have only the faintest glimmer of an idea why people would want driver’s whereabouts, thoughts or marketing interjected into their everyday lives but if I did then I’d want their actual relevant thoughts rather than some watered down copy or a photo opportunity.
        I’d previously thought Ham was a tosser for the “maybe it’s because I’m Black” comment as commonly reported but recently saw in the full footage where he immediately followed with “that’s what Ali G says” and laughed – exactly the opposite impression the expurgated quote leaves.
        Lewis’ “you” could be for everyone – his gift to the world – but I’m pretty sure it’s for the drivers/celebs who haven’t commented and I have to say it strikes me as off key again.

        1. Yes, it seems that most of those who still raise the ‘is it cos I black’ comment did not understand the point of the Ali G phrase in the first place. And if you see the full clip where Hamilton was continually pushed by reporters before coming out with that line its obvious he not only understood it, but used it in the right context.

          As for the ‘you’, his last ‘you’ was clearly aimed at one man. But if someone else thinks its aimed at them, it still does the job!

          SkyF1 are seeking an exclusive interview with him so it’ll be interesting if that can be arranged. After all they will all be in the F1 bubble between the two Austrian races with a bit of time on their hands.

    3. Who is the “you” Hamilton is referring to? People within the F1 world? Greater society? Who?

      1. That gearbox is pretty cool, nice job. I didn’t watch all the videos, what is the scale? Too bad real boxes can’t be built that way….. Some years ago I tried to come up with a way to modify the Hewland FF gearbox (Mk 4? It’s been a while) to convert it to a sequential shifter but gave up. I sure enjoyed the dog ring boxes; had a customer FF2000 driver getting ready to go out to the pre-grid and couldn’t get first gear. Knew exactly what was wrong, had the car on stands and the box apart and the gear reversed in four minutes total, start to finish.

      2. He’s referring to the voices in his head.
        Either that or he truly believes he is God.

        Seriously, he’s the new Michael Jackson. Exceptionally talented in his professional field, but an increasingly strange persona away from it.

      3. I think Lewis is primarily referring to the FIA. They are supposed to have an anti-racism program, and I thought that they would either promote that, or talk about race in some other way. Even a “we are against racism” message would have been nice. But nothing like that from the FIA on its social channels (or, at least not on Twitter).

        Granted, the FIA probably doesn’t want to distract people overmuch from its primary campaign, which is COVID-19 response. Even the accessibility improvement scheme it has championed in recent days was created and initially organised by Ferrari. However, it is unusual behaviour for the FIA to go this long without even mentioning something it is doing that has come to relevance. (It would probably have messed up how it discussed that scheme, but from past experience, a sudden concern with tonality would itself be odd).

        The other element is that Lewis may be feeling unsupported even though he is not. That is sometimes a thing that happens to people who go through sustained stressful news.

    4. Honestly, what is Hamilton, a thought police? I really think he’s a good and caring guy, but his social media stunts are becoming awkward at this point. Some people just don’t want to be involved in politics, they have nothing to say to this matter.

      1. William Jones
        13th June 2020, 12:56

        2020: “Racism is bad” is a political statement.

        1. No, bullying others for not sharing the same sentiments is bad. No one’s confronting Hamilton for not publicly caring for humanitarian crisis in Congo DR, which is a far greater problem than feelings of American justoce warriors.

          1. William Jones
            13th June 2020, 23:38

            I’m fairly convinced you’ve never been bullied in your life. I have, this isn’t it.

          2. William Jones
            13th June 2020, 23:42

            Also, why are you being a complete git to your very close friend on social media. Yes, your very close friend Lewis Hamilton, which you must be, seeing as how he has confided in you that no-one has confronted him about ((insert whataboutism here))

            1. Ok, Willy, seems like there’s no point discussing it with you. Nice vocabulary, by the way, but don’t forget to blame other people for being the worst human beings when they won’t agree with you on certain matters.

    5. Can he see me, though?
      I definitely agree with him on the matter and I’ve never been racist or anything, but it’s just that politics generally aren’t really my thing, so I usually try to stay away from them as much as possible. Politics within F1 are one thing, but the general politics are what I tend to avoid.

      1. That’s pretty much the definition of an “innocent bystander”. Plenty of companies now do training for their staff to highlight that there’s no such thing as an innocent bystander & to highlight unconscious bias.

        1. And that is very dangerous. Just imagine having to go through a course to re-program your subconcious thinking. That’s not ethical at all and straight violates the most intimate personal freedoms you have. People should have right for not caring.

          1. William Jones
            13th June 2020, 12:49

            You can’t brainwash the subconscious, stop getting hysterical. And stop treating holywood movies as true depictions of brainwashing.

          2. @pironitheprovocateur That’s not what “unconscious bias” is. It’s simply bias of which you are not aware.

            You can’t exercise freedom over something you don’t know about. The point of training about unconsciousness bias is to make people aware of what biases they may accidentally be committing.

            It’s the equivalent of etiquette – the original point of which was to avoid accidentally offending people. It would be naive to think people who respect etiquette never offend people on purpose, but to give enough common ground so that interactions can occur more smoothly and with more understanding by all involved. (And yes, good unconsciousness bias will also train people in subconscious cues by majority groups to prevent minority groups misinterpreting innocent majority group behaviour).

        2. Brainwashing is a corporate activity now, is it?

          Got any names of businesses running this type of social engineering? Just so I can avoid them.

          1. Got any names of companies where I can stand on the sidelines watching someone get bullied, demeaned, sexually harassed, racially abused, put in harms way and I can get away with do absolutely nothing about it?

            1. What?

              Um. I guess you can do that if that’s what makes you happy. Personal choice.
              You have your choice and I have mine. Personal freedoms are a lovely thing, right?

            2. synonymous, and yet you seem to not appreciate the irony of an individual boasting about “personal freedoms” when his position seems to be to dismiss the desires of others to the same level of personal freedom that he takes as his automatic right.

            3. William Jones
              13th June 2020, 12:50

              The blood service in the UK. Be quick though, it just hit the press, so they’ll have begun the crackdown already.

          2. Realistically? Probably companies like Facebook, Google, various social media enterprises. Anything that derives income from your attention and is successful as a business is probably subtly influencing your behavioural patterns so that you spend more time using the product.

        3. GtisBetter (@)
          13th June 2020, 12:21

          Have you ever heard of a guilty bystander? No, because you cannot be a bystander and be guilty! Bystanders, are by definition, innocent. That is the nature of by-standing.

          -Jackie chiles, lawyer.

          1. @passingisoverrated Yes, I’ve heard of guilty bystanders. Quite common in inpatient psychiatric units with staff failing to intervene in dangerous situations, as it happens. Badly-run hospitals and prisons are prone to this too, though good ones much less so. (Occasionally, this happens elsewhere, though the relatively free nature of most societies means many people go through their whole adult life without entering a situation where a bystander could be guilty).

            Guilty bystanders are people who have a legal responsibility (not simply a right) to intervene when/before something bad happens that is caused by someone else, or before something bad happens, and don’t exercise it. Since their non-intervention broke a law that was distinct from the offence committed by the person who did the bad thing (if one even applies – a patient putting themselves into a harmful position isn’t illegal for the patient to do), the bystander would, in fact, be guilty (in the UK, the most common charge would be “negligence”).

      2. @jerejj The post is a message in response to his complaint that people in motorsport weren’t discussing racism or police brutality.

        Unless you work in motorsport, you don’t need to worry – he can’t see you ;)

    6. Sometimes the wrong messages get elevated on this site.
      Hamilton bullying others rather than standing for a cause.
      And calling the current pandemic ‘hysteria’ gets you elevated to CotD.

      And still no Caption Competition :(

      1. What Colin Kaepernick did was standing for a cause. I think it’s natural to see that posting “I see you” repeatedly on social media creates mixed emotions. It looks like he is public shaming other people who may be thinking they don’t have anything to say that really adds to the public conversation or feel that there are more important voices to be heard at the moment. That gets me confused frankly.

        I second you on the caption competition. Please bring it back Keith!

    7. The last few years showed why Ferrari are noobs. What the bleep are we doing here.

    8. Of course I agree with Hamilton’s opinion, but I don’t agree with shaming people into making public statements.

      There are a lot of people out there that are shy, nervous, mentally exhausted by the lockdown, etc. Maybe they don’t want to put words out there at the moment just for the sake of it, without properly thinking about them in a careful and considered way.

        1. @john-h Very well said. I have observed over the last few days that some of the discussion on radio talk shows I listen to is about how white people of privilege have felt like it is their duty/obligation to call out racism and admit their shame in being part of the systemic problem, thinking that if they are silent they’ll get called out for that, but how that can come off as disingenuous. So to that end, for example, I saw Kevin Bacon on Jimmy Fallon last night and one of his comments was that he felt that as a privileged white guy he thought it was his place to remain silent and just listen and learn.

          So yeah, I’m not sure what LH is doing is the right approach, for if he shames someone into breaking their silence, will that be a genuine comment or just one to placate the LH’s of the world. Note some of the comments from the F1 drivers that did speak a few weeks ago off of LH’s comments, and they started by saying they didn’t think it was their place. But that said of course I do get how silence can come off as not caring and therefore being part of the problem.

          Hey I’m not advocating silence for the sake of silence nor speak for the sake of speak. I like what Kevin Bacon said, and I would like to see both the silent and the vocal take action at the ballot box and elect people that will run on the actual action of policy change that will eliminate the multiple and frighteningly and depressingly hidden ways in which the system breaks down (or has been built up) and goes against those marginalized every day to ensure they stay marginalized. As an aside I would also like to have a mechanism in government to be able to oust politicians who do not do what they campaigned and got elected on, without having to wait until their 4 year term is up to elect someone else. That would be accountability that would be much more effective than the kick the can down the road method we have had all along from politicians.

      1. I would imagine he is speaking to those who have a voice and exercise it frequently, but chose not to use it on this issue.

        1. You would think so @riptide, but then he should be more clear in who he’s aiming at.

          Personally, I just wish we could treat people equally regardless of their skin colour and background, humans are so ridiculous sometimes. Never pre-judge _anyone_ , form an opinion only after they’ve acted in a way you either don’t agree with, or would like to praise.

    9. I dont understand webber’s comments, clearly Seb isnt getting out of bed to go f1 racing and hasnt all year. Is he commenting on last year? If so how does he know the same will be this year, esp after a break.

      And in any case Seb leaving ferrari wasnt down to lack of motivation but him cracking under pressure on numerous occasions and making Ferrari look elsewhere for a driver.

      1. Mog obviously no driver is getting out of bed to go racing in F1 these days so he is obviously speaking metaphorically. How does MW know what it will be like for SV when they do go back racing? Well it seems to me MW is basing that on the fact that SV is not staying there, and on knowing what it is like for Ferrari drivers…the added and unique pressures based on how they go racing that are different than the other teams.

        So you’re saying that MW couldn’t possibly know what is going on with Seb, but in fact you do know. Perhaps the ‘cracking under pressure’ was from having to overdrive a car to keep up with the mighty Mercedes in an atmosphere that is the most unfriendly when things aren’t going their best like when strategies aren’t working, or when driver status politics gets in the way of actual racing.

        Oh I’m not blaming Seb’s on-track mistakes entirely on other factors than Seb making mistakes, but I am being mindful of the psychological aspect behind racing for Ferrari. Let’s see how CL does now that he is in the hot seat and the Ferrari might be relatively less competitive this year than last. Last year CL could do no wrong…do worse than SV and it’s no surprise, but do better than him and it’s gravy. Let’s see how he does as the defacto team number one with all the pressure on him, Sainz now with the lesser pressure being the ‘rookie’ on the team.

        1. Robbie I think Webbers comments are based on Vettels demeanour last year, not his current motivation. It looks that way if you read his longer comment.

          Yes, we can all assume going back this year will be less than ideal for him, however the guy also has a lot to prove the world wrong in his limited time in that coveted red seat so its premature to state we already know he lacks motivation. Its also a bit rude from Webber and i think that is not his intention on the podcast.

          I take your point re Charles. Agreed, lets see.

          The signing of Carlos was completed very early this year if not late last year as per Zac browns comments on the matter. It stands to reason Vettel knew he was on the out as early as Cota last year if not earlier. However, his mistakes are not limited to last year Baku 2017 being an example, Germany 2018 another and numerous spins etc. Those years ferrari had a fast car (if not a seamless team) and driver error was a key component of the eventual results in the championships. Yes Vettel may have suffered from the off track pressure but pressure is a given at this level.

          1. Mog Fair comment. You are right that SV may be very motivated to prove the world wrong as you say. I hope that is what happens and really I don’t think we’ll see anything less, although if we go by pre-season testing, and unless Ferrari were sandbagging, he and CL might find themselves struggling to impress anyone. Personally I’m not ready to see SV gone as I think he could still be a factor in F1 depending on what happens of course. I don’t actual mind the thought of him taking a year off and coming back for the new cars. I’d like to think he would like to try them too. Guess we’ll know when we know.

      2. I think he sees that it’s very hard for Seb to find a seat next year, and he’s just being kind to him.

        As for the cracking under pressure part, I think it’s a fair comment. But that might be why Webber says that Vettel probably misses British way of going racing.

    10. Lewis is seriously testing my support for him. This is bullying. No one is responsible for the sins of their forebears, but everyone is responsible for what they do themselves. They succeed or fail based upon their own actions. Act the victim and everyone will treat you as one, nowhere is that more obvious than sport. His own boyhood hero epitomised that, as does Lewis at times with his driving.

      Lewis. Enough. Just get back to the driving.

      1. @frasier Yes mate,i agree.I have a real issue with people telling others what to think and say.
        It smacks a hell of a lot like “Loony Leftism”

        1. GtisBetter (@)
          14th June 2020, 9:47

          I have to agree. A nudge to people who want to say something, but are a bit shy is fine. But to go keep going and to demand people to make a stand is just wrong. It’s when a group gains power and influence and demand other people to say something and give a very “you are either with us or you are against us” vibe that the irony hits hard. This is a problem of people not respecting other people as free and equals and now he is doing the same by pressurising and disregarding personal freedom of others. People are free to not care, cause it’s impossible to care about everything that is wrong in the world. Indifference is not bad and not good. it’s just neutral. Not everything is black and white.

          Not to mention that everybody can throw this “I see you staying silent” back in Lewis his face when he goes on driving in countries with horrible human life standards and says nothing, like he has been for the last couple of years.

      2. To be fair, Lewis isn’t nearly as petulant as Senna could be.

      3. He can’t drive atm, so he has to talk, be patient!

    11. DaCosta4Renault2021
      15th June 2020, 5:55

      It’s not should have its SHOULD. Don’t go with Valteri or Vettel.

      Put Da Costa in the open Renault seat.

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