Lewis Hamilton, Mercedes, Hungaroring, 2020

Hamilton smashes track record for pole as Racing Point sweep second row

2020 Hungarian Grand Prix qualifying

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Lewis Hamilton will start the Hungarian Grand Prix from pole position after beating the track record for the Hungaroring by over a second.

He will share the front row of the grid with his team mate Valtteri Bottas. The Racing Point pair took the second row of the grid, followed by the two Ferraris, who relegated last year’s pole winner Max Verstappen to seventh place.


Light spots of rain began to fall around the back of the Hungaroring as the first drivers joined the track at the beginning of Q1. However it never developed into a proper shower, and as the track conditions improved throughout the session, timing a run to be among the last across the line proved vital.

The Mercedes drivers headed the times initially, followed by the Racing Point pair. At the end of the session, Sergio Perez produced a superb effort to head the times with a 1’14.907. But the fact the team felt compelled to send him out for another run demonstrated how quickly the track conditions were improving.

The Ferrari customer teams were again finding it heavy going to post a time which would get them into Q2. Matters were made more challenging for Antonio Giovinazzi as he had one lap time deleted for another run, and had his second run spoiled by a huge cluster of traffic.

He eventually posted a time substantially faster than that of team mate Kimi Raikkonen, the pair separated by over half a second, but the two Alfa Romeos were rooted to the bottom of the times sheet. The Haas pair also went no further, Kevin Magnussen falling short by a tenth of a second.

The Williams pair looked like a Q2 threat from the off, and both drivers delivered on the car’s potential. George Russell’s last effort put him in the rare heights of third – he eventually went through in ninth – while Nicholas Latifi claimed the final place in Q2.

Despite problems with his power unit, Pierre Gasly grabbed a place in the next stage of qualifying, but team mate Daniil Kvyat got no further. Max Verstappen also complained of poor performance from his Honda, and had a minor scare as he fell close to the drop zone at the end of the session, but comfortably made it through.

Drivers eliminated in Q1

16Kevin MagnussenHaas-Ferrari1’16.152
17Daniil KvyatAlphaTauri-Honda1’16.204
18Romain GrosjeanHaas-Ferrari1’16.407
19Antonio GiovinazziAlfa Romeo-Ferrari1’16.506
20Kimi RaikkonenAlfa Romeo-Ferrari1’16.614

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With an eye on the strategy for tomorrow’s race, Mercedes, Racing Point and Renault sent their drivers out on the medium tyre compound for the start of Q2. The results were mixed.

Daniel Ricciardo barely scraped into the top 10 after the first runs while Esteban Ocon was four-tenths of a second shy. The two Racing Points took seventh and eighth, but not comfortably, leaving them with a difficult choice ahead of their final runs.

As for Mercedes, Lewis Hamilton beat the track record, Verstappen’s pole position time from last year, with the harder rubber. An ominous sign for their rivals.

Ferrari ran their drivers on softs, but while Vettel set the third-quickest time behind the Mercedes, Leclerc was only 11th to begin with. “I did a mistake,” he admitted as he returned to the pits.

Renault opted for softs for their final run, but it wasn’t enough to get either driver into the final 10. Ricciardo fell short by 0.153 seconds after Leclerc’s last lap comfortably put him into Q3.

Mercedes also went their drivers out on softs as a precaution in case the track improved suddenly. But that didn’t materialise and both aborted their final runs.

Surprisingly, Racing Point stuck with their medium tyre gamble. Even more surprisingly, despite neither driver posting significant improvements, they held on to their places in Q3. Gasly also reached the final 10 despite his engine giving up.

While the two Williams drivers failing to reach Q3 was no great surprise, Russell distinguished himself by out-qualifying Albon’s Red Bull, which was seven-tenths of a second slower than his team mate’s. “Sorry guys but I told you just don’t put me in traffic,” fumed Albon as he returned to the pits.

Drivers eliminated in Q2

11Daniel RicciardoRenault1’15.661
12George RussellWilliams-Mercedes1’15.698
13Alexander AlbonRed Bull-Honda1’15.715
14Esteban OconRenault1’15.742
15Nicholas LatifiWilliams-Mercedes1’16.544

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With Gasly’s car already up on stands receiving attention from the AlphaTauri mechanics as the session, began, Q3 was contested by just nine drivers.

Having already beaten the track record on medium compound tyres, Hamilton was obviously going to do some serious damage to it on softs. Sure enough, he unleashed a 1’13.613, almost a full second faster than last year’s pole position time.

Bottas was second-quickest after the first runs, following by Lance Stroll, while Perez’s lap time was deleted after he ran wide at turn four. He was followed by Verstappen, then the McLarens and Ferraris.

With the track no longer improving as quickly as before, the Ferrari and Racing Point drivers chose to begin their final runs early to ensure they didn’t encounter traffic. Vettel moved up to fourth with his last effort, while Leclerc matched him almost tenth-for-tenth, and ended up four hundredths shy of his team mate.

Seemingly not wishing to risk another lap time deletion, Perez posted the fourth-quickest time to join his team mate on the second row.

The pole position fight was an all-Mercedes affair. But Hamilton had too much for Bottas: improving his time in the second and third sectors, he lowered the track record again to a 1’13.447. Bottas could, but he remained a tenth shy of his team mate.

Ferrari’s decision to run early paid off: They claimed the third row of the grid behind the Racing Point pair. Verstappen, seventh, was almost three-tenths of a second slower than he had been last year. The McLaren pair will start eighth and ninth, while Gasly did not set a time.

Top ten in Q3

1Lewis HamiltonMercedes1’13.447
2Valtteri BottasMercedes1’13.554
3Lance StrollRacing Point-Mercedes1’14.377
4Sergio PerezRacing Point-Mercedes1’14.545
5Sebastian VettelFerrari1’14.774
6Charles LeclercFerrari1’14.817
7Max VerstappenRed Bull-Honda1’14.849
8Lando NorrisMcLaren-Renault1’14.966
9Carlos Sainz JnrMcLaren-Renault1’15.027
10Pierre GaslyAlphaTauri-Honda

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2020 Hungarian Grand Prix

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Author information

Keith Collantine
Lifelong motor sport fan Keith set up RaceFans in 2005 - when it was originally called F1 Fanatic. Having previously worked as a motoring...

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212 comments on “Hamilton smashes track record for pole as Racing Point sweep second row”

  1. It’s official, season just ended in borefest. How bad are all these other teams, for the past 6 years..

    1. Nonsense.
      It is and will be one of best championships in years.

      Don’t like it?
      Go watch something else. Others will be enjoying it greatly.

      1. Well it all depends on Bottas. Other teams are nowhere.

      2. now this made my day: i always remember this when something like this happens…

      3. Not nonsense and to claim it is and will be the best season is nonsense.
        The season is done for the rest of them – it’s between HAM and BOT and we know how that will play out – it will more than likely be the same next year.
        Hopefully the playing field will be more even in 2022 but I wouldn’t bank on it.

      4. @dallein @jerejj

        Think you owe Jere an apology. This was the most boring mixed conditions race I’ve ever seen. Hamilton turned on the power down and finished a week in the lead.

    2. How bad are all these other teams, for the past 6 years..

      Exactly as “bad” as they appear. I would sincerely suggest you stop watching F1 this year to mitigate the borefest and any further unhappiness you may experience.

      1. @kbdavies don’t get me wrong, this is not a jab at Merc, just at the rest. You would expect some development over 6 years.. Apart from that, merc only fight is boring to watch now that it is Bottas. Rosberg vs Hamilton at least made the merc fight entertaining. And showed that Hamilton can be beaten by a not rated super level driver. For that matter lots of things currently getting lost, great drivers in the races but no competition.

        1. Is this about a ‘borefest’, or the fact Hamilton is winning? Hmmm.

          1. Hamilton hasn’t really seen competion at Merc, let’s see him compete.

          2. It turned into a borefest when MSchumacher was at Ferrari, with VET at RBR etc. Nothing to do with HAM.

          3. It’s the same argument people had when Vettel was winning by smaller margins, so it may be “a driver” but it is certainly not because it is “Hamilton”.

        2. AJ (@asleepatthewheel)
          18th July 2020, 15:24

          Bottas has seriously raised his game in qualifying this season…just race pace he needs to work on

          1. @asleepatthewheel Not really, he did the same last season and it wasn’t until Monaco that Hamilton, in a lap that exhausted him physically and emotionally, managed to really break Bottas’s hold on qualifying. After that, ‘Bottas 2’ quickly faded. This year, Hamilton seems to have been quicker in matching him in qualifying. It’s almost certain that Hamilton is better set up for the race too (as usual).

        3. And showed that Hamilton can be beaten by a not rated super level driver

          If you’re referring to 2016, all I take away from it was Hamilton’s teammates need significantly better reliability and still they can barely “beat” him by handful of points.

          1. They’re not thinking logical, they’re living on a prayer (Max).

          2. @rockgod to be expected if you have to compete with nr. 2 drivers

          3. @maxv Rosberg was Ricciardo level, i.e. a very good driver. He tamed Schumacher fairly easily remember. And he and Hamilton were treated equally. The only other driver I’d be sure about saying is better than Rosberg was is Verstappen. Even Leclerc has a few question marks and the likes of Norris and Russell, we still don’t know.

          4. @rockgod I’m convinced the car that year was not as sturdy, and Hamilton felt more pressure as Rosberg was improving which forced Hamilton to drive “harder”. Driving “harder” the way Hamilton drives seems to have hurt the car as it was designed for that year. It came down to Hamilton needing to push just a little less but he was unable to do so.

        4. It hurts to admit Nico was a great driver doesn’t it? Every year following his retirement proves he was underrated. You just won’t admit it because his team mate was Hamilton.

          1. You could put Max next to Lewis, and if Lewis beat him they would call him second rate. Carwars like a lot of others has spent the last decade rubbishing Lewis, so they cant back out of that opinion now, no matter what the evidence.

          2. @gufdamm
            it hurts them all really, and they call rosberg 2nd grade :)

            Here are Rosberg’s own words from an interview:

            “It is not realistic for me to become world champion nine times, as he may be able to do”
            When asked about what makes him happy? Winning the Drivers’ World Title or the whole F1 journey.
            Nico replied, “You don’t have to be a world champion to be happy. You can also be fifth and if more than fifth was not possible with this car, you can get a lot of joy out of it.”
            If Lewis Hamilton would have won the 2016 title, It would have scarred me mentally: Nico Rosberg

            This probably explains why hamilton haters hate him so much, they are scarred for life :) j/k Rosberg got a lucky escape though…
            “He said that It would have possibly mentally scarred me a little for the rest of my life. Since it is so huge, the fantasy is so solid, such a large number of individuals take an interest, it has so much power over him. That is the reason which made it was even more memorable. He added that it is the most wonderful thing to go out into another life at the supreme peak. It’s such an essential flood of energy for the rest of his life.”

    3. I stopped following this when I read “Hamilton hasn’t really seen competition at Merc, let’s see him compete.”

      Bitter Max supporters? – Let’s wait until he has some real experience and accomplishments, shall we?

      Honestly, it’s personal, which I understand. But when you’re talking about an accomplished driver like HAM, it’s hard to listen to the constant bashing and comparisons.

      1. If you have watched closely Hamilton has had big slumps in form in his Merc seasons, putting him under unnecessary pressure from his team mate, the only guy he needed to beat. At least with Bottas he learned how to do away with those and crush him. But you could say, well that’s kind of the minimum expectation, he I a great driver and has one guy to beat.

        1. putting him under unnecessary pressure from his team mate, the only guy he needed to beat

          Did you miss 2017 and 2018 @maxv?

          1. @dom Did you see a fight after the halfway point? Or a fight till the last race wit Ferrari?

            I would call those seasons “hopeful that competition was ramping up”.

            Yet here we are.

          2. @carwars In 2017 Ferrari’s speed was still there after the halfway point. Vettel was faster at Spa but Hamilton held him off well. I still feel that the race win was thrown away in Singapore by Vettel, a massive swing in points that would have put Ferrari significantly ahead for the end of the season. Moments like that make a massive difference. Performance can swing to and fro throughout a closely fought season and you have to capitalise when you’ve got the advantage. In 2018 Mercedes managed to turn things around at tracks where Ferrari were quicker around mid-season (Hungary 2018 being an example), both seasons could have had different outcomes but Mercedes and Hamilton were just impeccable. Basically, it isn’t true that it was only his teammate that was in contention those seasons

          3. @maxv i know you are quite die hard anti ham, but 2007 ham vs alo? ham was held back by team to please alo! but when ham was let loose, alo wet his pants! you know the rest… fresh rookie in f1 vs a 2 time wdc! when was the last time something like this happened since ayrton senna times in a really good car? you can count vet vs ric 14, bcoz that rb car was terrible… it could go any other way… like 15? kvyat beat ric?16-17 ric beat max 18 max beat ric…

      2. Put him in a RP, RBR, Ferrari or McLaren…. and then talk! All we know is, since 2014, he’s racing the best car on the grid year after year.

        1. and delivering flawlessly. that’s why he stays there for so long.
          Vettel was fired from Ferrari for underperforming. See the difference ?

        2. And is there anyone that deserved that seat more at the time? I think not!

        3. I think your claim is valid to a point.
          If you mean to say ALO, RIC, ROS or VER had the seat he currently has and he was in one of their cars he may have won maybe one WDC instead 4.
          The being the year Ferrari had a very good car but VET choked – he may have pulled it off.
          HAM has been blessed to get that seat and I’m sure he knows it.
          He’s a great driver but we will never know how great due to his cars superiority.
          The fact he lost to ROS will always be a thorn in his side.

    4. Nah, I’m still waiting for Mercedes to achieve what MP4/4 nearly did..

      An absolute domination..

      1. @3dom
        true in 2017 and 2018 Bottas was crap, couldn’t even come second. Think about how bad that is..

        2017 Gap to 2nd 46 points
        2018 Gap to 2nd 88 points

        Yeah bit boring competition wise

        1. @davidbr true Rosberg retrospectively deserved massive respect for 2014-2016. More like a Vettel kind of driver, fast out front. Both are a bit handicapped in wheel to wheel fights.

    5. Wow Stroll 😲

      1. That shows who can perform in a Mercedes, even a copied one.

        1. or it shows that they’re trying to make their decision to release Perez for Vettel next year less obviously about Stroll being the son of the owner…

    6. Just goes to show with Stool in 3rd that anyone in a Mercedes can perform well.

  2. Both RPs and Ferraris ahead of RB, LOL.
    How is Albon this slow?

    1. Max is driving the 3rd fastest car while albon is driving the 5th fastest car

      1. @carlosmedrano Well that is kinda true :)

  3. This season is starting to feel a lot like ’14.

    1. @omega And ’15 and ’16.

      1. Ferrari in 2015 and Redbull in 2016 were atleast clear 2nd bests. This year its Mercedes and then the midfield.

        1. @knightameer My point was about the Mercedes-level itself. All three seasons were equally dominant on this front.

      2. And 17, 18 and 19

  4. AllTheCoolNamesWereTaken
    18th July 2020, 15:09

    I am Jack’s complete lack of surprise.

    I hadn’t yet discovered F1 during the Schumacher era, so I’ll have to ask: Was it as boring as this?

    1. It was NOT boring back then, it is NOT boring now.

      1. @dallein

        Depends if we are speaking relatively, compared to 2005-2010, the current era of F1 absolutely is boring, predictable and stale.

      2. Wow, I’m surprised you weren’t bored in the ferrari era cause you seem like a die hard mercedes fan.

        I personally wasn’t bored as a schumacher fan (not ferrari), and 2 out of the 5 seasons schumacher won the title at ferrari were actually good fights, 2000 and 2003, now I’m bored even if hamilton was one of my favourite drivers, cause I don’t really like mercedes and there’s no one who dominated this long.

    2. Nowhere near this boring. The fight was always with another team.

    3. Very different. Nowhere near the dominance. Also lots more unreliability made things far more exciting

      1. @spencer 2002 and 2004 saw Ferrari introduce cars that are still considered some of the most dominant ever to have been used in F1, and in particular the F2002 is technically more dominant than some of the Mercedes cars which are tagged as being “dominant”.

        1. Until hybrid era that’s true. The Mercedes year in year out is statistically the most dominant car there ever was. Speed and reliability.

          1. Initially, when you look at the performance of the cars, the F2002 still has a higher win percentage than a number of the hybrid Mercedes cars, with an 88% win rate.

            In the hands of Schumacher, it also has the distinction that his lowest finishing position was 2nd place – none of Mercedes’s cars have ever managed that achievement. Ferrari didn’t even bother updating the F2002 in the latter part of the season, and they could even still win races with that car in 2003.

            Also, I believe you are also incorrect to claim that, statistically, the Mercedes hybrid cars are the most dominant car there ever was. The answer of what is statistically the most dominant car in fact appears to be the 1961 Ferrari 156 – in part because it had a power advantage of 25% over its rivals that year.

          2. The Mercedes year in year out is statistically the most dominant car there ever was

            Untrue. Ever heard of Senna and Prost’s Mclaren MP4/4 and MP4/5?

      2. Can I borrow your set of rose-tinted glasses please?

    4. I started watching F1 then, but while not being a witness to 2000-2002 era, it was boring – but not for seven straight years. Back in the Ferrari days, you had two totally dominated seasons and the rest was more or less open. Cannot be said for this era, although Mercedes fans on this British-biased forum would like to convince everyone that Ferrari was a title challenger last year and the Mercedes dominance is a thing which ceased to exist after 2016.

      1. Yeah i mean what fools we are thinking they were a challeneger with an illegal engine. Haha, And do not get me started over 2018. 2018 was one of the best seasons ever. Was very competitive, and 2017 was also. Leclerc had most poles last year aswell. This year i admit is dominant but in 2014/2016 atleast Hamilton always had a very good teammate they were not given to him. It would be worst if a driver Like Alonso was going up against someone like VanDoorne. 2020 looks like 2014/2016 tho so i do hope rbull get in the mix. That Das is obviosuly working very well.

      2. Adam (@rocketpanda)
        18th July 2020, 15:22

        Ferrari’s domination was boring but at least there was unreliability and other teams that looked at least close. Red Bull’s was a bit dull sometimes (9 wins in a row) but that was one year, and generally the Red Bull seemed like it had to fight the Ferrari & McLarens harder for wins.

        Since Mercedes started dominating it’s been like taking candy from a baby. Or a lion playing with its food. They’ve just been consistently on a different level to everyone else it’s like they’re following a different rulebook.

      3. Ferrari had credible chances in 2017 and 2018. The rule book has been changed to help Mercedes’ rivals. Mercedes and Hamilton have to be applauded for how great they’ve been @pironitheprovocateur

        1. @3dom “The rule book has been changed to help Mercedes’ rivals” – how??

          1. Really? A massive aero change in 2017 that Mercedes was against as they believed it would make overtaking impossible (they voted for it after being criticised) new front wings last year. Then there is the Mercedes fric suspension that got banned. When the fia believed Mercedes were burning oil that was banned. There is probably more that I cant think of right now.

          2. It wasn’t, he just dreamed it up.

        2. @3dom

          The rule book has been changed to help Mercedes’ rivals

          You couldn’t be any more wrong. The 2019 aero regulations have helped Mercedes and their low-rake concept hugely.

          1. @kingshark which then begs the question of why, if that is supposedly the case, are all of the other teams still persisting with exactly the same design concept if there was nothing stopping them from switching from a higher to lower rake design for 2020.

            That, though, starts from the assumption that the other cars are steeply raked, which is questionable. The Haas and Alfa Romeo cars both had fairly similar rake angles to the Mercedes W10 last year – the SF90, meanwhile, was only fractionally more raked than the W10 was (maybe a few tenths of a degree).

            Overall, there wasn’t actually a massive variation in rake angle – Mercedes ran about 1.5 degrees, but most teams were generally running rake angles from about 1.5 to 1.7 degrees. It’s not just Mercedes running a “low rake” concept – the majority of the grid have tended towards “lower rake” designs for a number of years now so, by your theory, they should have all gained as well by those rule changes.

          2. @kingshark part of the intention of the rule changes was to “shake things up”. The result may have not match the intention, but certainly Mercedes have had loads thrown at them (just read Adam’s comment above for a brief summary), don’t begrudge Mercedes for continually knocking it out of the park

          3. @kingshark
            mercedes was said to be burning oil, they changed rules about oil burning, competitors dropped in performance… :)
            one competitor went around flow rate, which was found, then suddenly said competitor dropped in performance….
            mercedes’ competitors tried everything to drop mercedes’ dominance, but all failed so far, because mercedes advantage is the overall package and not one particular part or any rule bending/cheating feature!
            so much talked about DAS, system but it is been deemed legal, and mercedes even cleared it up with fia from the start, unlike some competitors’ NDA behind cheating scandals… RB era dominance was purely the aero advantage, and when people got a hold of what was going on, it was too late… luckily engine changed and rb aero stuff banned and rb disappeared kind of ….

    5. No absolutely not. 2002 and specially 2004 were this bad. But 2000 and 2003 were really epic!
      This era only 2018 could possibly ended with a different team then Mercedes winning.

      1. that’s the writing on the wall. 2002 was terrible. Montoya set the fastest times, but nobody expected him to win with schumacher alongside him on the front row.
        There was a race in which Barrichello started from the back at Silverstone, by mid race he had the whole pack cleared.

        who says it wasn’t boring is straight up lying.

        1. I have seen through the Ferrari domination and those were certainly not as one-sided as this hybrid era. You had 4-5 different race winners in each season from 2000-2004, though 2003 was exceptional in having 8 different winners. The fact is that the Mercedes has been far too dominant that Ferrari had been, and over a longer duration. It has led to certain viewer fatigue and I turn away from the screen during the races which I never did in the past.

          Thankfully, MotoGP balances this out really well because of which my interest in motorsport has survived over the past decade. I hope the 2022 rules do something similar for F1 and bring the pack closer.

    6. F1 is not & never has been boring because there is pretty much always something interesting or exciting going on even if it isn’t at the very front.

      Even in the 2 years of actual Ferrari/Schumacher dominance (2002/2004) they may have run off into the distance more often than not but you had quite a lot of good racing going on behind them. Only problem back then was that the local host broadcasters who used to produce the world feed broadcast’s often didn’t show it while today we do get to see a lot of the racing through the field.

  5. What was it with Mercedes cars in FP3 and Williams in the qualifying, smoking out of turn 12? The same thing which happened to Racing Point in the Austrian Grand Prix. Are we sure Ferrari were the only ones cheating with their engine?

    1. I noticed that in Austria with RP. So now is Mercedes smoking?

    2. And here comes the conspiracy theories, I genuinely believe they are the only ones not cheating based on the time loss for other teams compared to them. Anyway engine wouldn’t give them 1.5 seconds over VER on a downforce hungry circuit.

    3. Why shouldn’t they smoke? Oil burning is still allowed, just within certain limits. Some smoke means nothing by itself.

      1. Haven’t noticed it on any other cars.

      2. actually it’s not allowed anymore reserves are very little. But if you notice the smoke comes only when the throttle from a curbe so i think it’s a over spil thing.

    4. They elected a new pope, of course.

  6. What an embarrassment for all teams except Mercedes and Racing Point. This goes to show that last year’s W10 was good enough for this year. This is pathetic to watch. I get it that the RP20 may not be an entire clone, but this is embarrassing to other teams.

    I think it’s time for Red Bull to go back to the drawing board.

    1. Michael (@freelittlebirds)
      18th July 2020, 15:11

      Well, Mercedes and Racing point should be commended for their excellence. The other teams have no excuses, period!

      1. @freelittlebirds “Racing point should be commended for their excellence” – Yeah, all the other teams should have invested more in their photocopier.

        1. @asherway We can scrunch up our noses all we want at Pink Mercedes but looking at their budget and quali results today, I think it’s less shameful to copy than spend millions and be a second far off from the benchmark.

          1. @rockgod so everyone should just copy merc and get in line?

          2. @asherway

            Well you know how the saying goes. “Can’t beat em? Join em.”

          3. To be fair, copying success has always been part of F1. Double diffuser anyone?

        2. @asherway it’s exactly how Haas started when they entered with Ferrari, now look at them.

    2. @krichelle it is notable that Red Bull are down on where they were last year, with Verstappen’s best time being three tenths off what he did last year – Austria also saw Red Bull only matching their qualifying performance last year too.

      Is it necessarily that Mercedes are that far ahead, or that Ferrari and Red Bull seem, if anything, to have dropped back in terms of performance, making the gap look much larger than you might have expected?

      1. Mercedes improved the power unit a lot over the winter, and have lessen the drag on their car. The W10 was already outstanding in slow speed corners and through change of direction to the point that Red Bull admitted that the car was the best chassis on the grid. No surprise though, as it was the best car for tyre preservation. Now, the W11 is quick everywhere. It would be nice to see how hotter temperatures affect the W11, as all races this year have been in cool conditions.

        I am thinking to what Andrew Shovlin said in one video during the F1 lockdown. He said that when a car does not work as expected, then it’s most likely the tyres that are not working properly, and that these tyres suit Mercedes more than the other teams. We are using thin thread tyres since the change last year.

        1. @krichelle the thing is, that is mostly about where Mercedes has improved its performance, whereas my question has been whether there is also an element of their rivals underperforming relative to where you’d expect them to be.

          Ferrari were notably slower in Austria during qualifying, though at the Hungaroring they’re made a modest improvement (about 3 tenths); as for Red Bull, they’d made no improvement in Austria and are three tenths slower this year in Hungary than they were in 2019.

          With the tyres being the same in 2019 and 2020, changes in the tyre construction between seasons can be removed as a factor – it is possible Red Bull have made a 2020 car that does not cope with the 2019 tyres as well as their 2019 car, but it would be a little surprising if that were the case. The net effect, however, is that Red Bull doesn’t really seem to have made much headway in terms of performance, and if anything seem to now have a car that seems to have a handling balance that is causing problems for both of their drivers.

    3. I get what you’re saying, but go back to the drawing board in July mean abandoning this year championship.

    4. I think Mercedes have improved their engines relative to the other teams which accounts for the relative performance of the photocopied car.
      One must commend Mercedes on how they just seem to always keep up their performance level.
      The rules are the same for everyone.
      Some teams spend more research and development time thinking of how they can get their competitors to be penalised.
      Mercedes just spends more time in the design room and creative corner.

      1. you also need to remember when Mercedes introduced its 3rd new engine last season thay had reliability issues and i dont think they ran them in full power that last part of last season. In fact I believe the Abu Dhabi gp was the only race after the summer break Mercedes ran their engines on full power and Hamilton dominated that race.

        1. Good points Adam, Mercedes being quite shocked by last year’s Ferrari PU gain, and them not having been able to bring to track (reliably) everything they developed w. PU made the ge gap extra big, which seems to have spurred Mercedes on to produce a big improvement, while Ferrari now lost that pace. Honda has been surprised at how much the Mercedes PU gained.

          Now/more cheat- eh, clever interpretation ? I hope not to the level of cheating

    5. Well… last race (but for many years too) some said RBR knows how to build a car. Sometimes it really feels like they don’t.

  7. Impressive stuff. Incredible work by Mercedes, what a car, what an engine. And Lance Stroll looked very comfortable today. Vettel also found his rhythm in Q3, I enjoyed that session.

    1. @broke84 yep they are mental, they found a full second vs. last year..

    2. Mercedes are very impressive. The power unit appears to have made gains and ever other power unit has lost out in the new regs – at least thats the impression.

      1. There were question marks over their power unit’s reliability after preseason testing. The delayed start to the season may have helped them in that regard. But nevertheless what a car!

  8. Congratulations Mercedes and Lewis on titles #7.

    Sigh, 2022 can’t come soon enough.

    1. Same here. Can’t wait for 2022 and Lewis’s 9th title.

      1. Surely you meant Alonso’s 3rd? ;)

        Or alternate thought: Daimler leaves F1, Aston buys all their assets, Vettel wins his 5th title….

        1. Or Stroll’s first ;-)

    2. Don’t forget title #8 also since nothing will change next year, except maybe the Merc engine will get another upgrade.

    3. Closely matched teammates at merc, racing point, mclaren, renault, ferrari, romeo, even Hass too, mismatched at red bull teams, williams too but latifi is a rookie

  9. So we have Latifi ahead of Kvyat and Verstappen totally nowhere. Seems like every engine except for Mercedes had suffered from the rule changes. So basically the engine convergence factor has changed to a divergence overnight.

    Yes the Schumacher era was this boring but even it didn’t last 7 years. Season over. Zzzzzz.

    1. I dont think honda have lost anything. Last year redbull were faster in a straight than Mercedes this year the car has more downforce but it also look like it has a flaw in slow speed corners. I dont think honda & redbull would complain about the ferrari engine to the fia if they were doing the same.

  10. Adam (@rocketpanda)
    18th July 2020, 15:13

    I really don’t get how one team is so good they can outqualify the nearest car by nearly a second and are largely only challenged by a team using what is essentially their old one. And not even for one or two years but six times? I don’t even know how you fix something like this. I just don’t get how the other teams can be *this bad*. Those cars are virtually in a different category, it’s obscene.

    1. And all of the races thus far have been on circuits with a short lap. Wait until we get to Silverstone. It’s going to be a 2 1/2 second gap.

      1. No it will stay around one second ahead. Mercedes has a “magic” engine that can legally produce exactly how much power their computers tell them they need to be ahead by one second through analysing the others’ lap times and telemetry they collect.

    2. Or maybe Mercedes are just that amazing @rocketpanda

      But with some teams performing worse this year than last, perhaps it’s a combination of other teams just not doing as good a job and Mercedes being outstanding

      1. I don’t think anyone is confused that Mercedes is doing a great job. The point that is being made is that it is frankly boring to watch the same team dominate for seven years and more than likely eight once you factor in the limited amount of changes allowed for 2021. This is no longer sport it’s simply an engineering exhibition.

        1. Adam (@rocketpanda)
          18th July 2020, 15:30

          I’d agree, it’s barely a competition anymore. We sit here raving on the rare races where someone manages to actually fight a Mercedes because they’re so exhaustingly dominant the difference is appreciated. It’s like they’re not even racing in the same category as everyone else – and when the Tracing Points are now taking up 3-4… I mean I imagine it’s fantastic if you’re a fan of Mercedes but if you just want to see a fight at the front or a championship of more than two then this isn’t it.

        2. Back to horse races.

        3. An engineering exhibition is exactly what F1 is supposed to be, and it is the reason automobile racing began. Horse racing is about the best horse, no-one complains when a horse is unbeaten for 20+ races, perhaps neither fits your idea of sport but there are plenty of “1 design” racing categories for you to follow. @spencer

    3. What’s compounding the gap is that Mercedes is moving forward and the other contenders are moving backwards compared to last year. Forget Ferrari, but I expected Red Bull to come back strong on this downforce-favored circuit but even they fell off 3 tenths from their own pole from last year! That’s disappointing.

      1. Classic case overall of people rushing to conclusions. Your point is one factor, recent weather may be another, set up difficulties for redbull also a factor.. f1 is doing okay atm. It’s quite good actually… looking forward to see how it all plays out. So much to learn from Mercedes and their team these last year, even life lessons I believe, whether personal or structural. Quite amazing.

        Also 2014 imo was a good season, why do we have to complain so much?

        1. Being disappointed at teams going back in pace from previous year is considered complaining now?

    4. Because its an engine formula and your aero can only do so much, Enzo was right afterall aerodynamics are for people who cant build engines.

      Ferrari showed how a jump in engine performance can propel you forward!

      1. Good point

      2. Enzo was a bitter old man. “Garagistas” … “Aero for teams that can’t build engines”. Funny he said the these things when Ferrari were being schooled by the British teams.

        1. DeanR, the thing is, the quip that “Aero for teams that can’t build engines” was, firstly, nothing to do with F1 and in fact related to Ferrari’s sportscar activities.

          Secondly, it seems that Enzo’s comment “Aero for teams that can’t build engines” is often taken out of context. When Enzo made the quip to Paul Frere, it seems that it was mainly intended to just make Frere shut up about the low top speed of the 250TR he was driving – as, given that Ferrari was arranging for access to the University of Stuttgart’s rolling road wind tunnel at the time, it seems Enzo was aware of the importance of aerodynamics.

    5. I agree. As others have said it seems that Mercedes have tried to improve their car/engine and have succeeded but the other teams have tried and have not succeeded, relatively. The only exception is RP who seem to have been able to pretty much copy the 2019 Mercedes. Then they have the improved 2020 engine as well.

      Races are always going to hold some level of interest for fans as there are always going to be battles behind the leading two cars. At this moment though it is difficult to see how the 2020 and 2021 WDCs are going to be battle involving anyone but Hamilton and Bottas.

      Roll on 2022!

  11. It’s always puzzling when a top car is slower a year later in similar conditions. Really wondering what’s going on with the Red Bull. Aero, Suspension, both? Really surprising

    1. My impression is that the downforce is inconsistent while the car turns corners. Years ago McLaren had a similar problem and ended up lowering peak downforce levels to get consistency and confidence for the drivers.

      1. Yes, Alex and Max both commented on the unpredictability of the car, there is no consistency. Max as a driver is capable of getting more out of the car by sheer force, but Alex, who is absolutely not a bad driver, feels no confidence in the handling. It looks for now that Aero is the main issue, although the engine is also not a strong point. Honda is known for being conservative and fearful of exploding engines, but there will be some hard words going on.
        Knowing Max he will be very direct in his opinion of this situation, the people in Milton Keynes will have some long working days ahead.
        What I fear most is that Tokyo pulls the plug, there is a big recession going on and their boards will certainly look at the numbers.

  12. Albon is over rated. All he knows is to complain, get lucky with a safety car and crash into Lewis. Disappointing how far Redbull are.

    1. AJ (@asleepatthewheel)
      18th July 2020, 15:27

      Yup that little whine in the end wouldn’t have down well with Marko and Horner.

    2. @amg44 .. “crash into Lewis”, I get it being a fan of specific driver an all that .. but lol.

    3. I don’t think he’s overrated, basically everybody rates him as too slow compared to Verstappen. He is in a team he propably doesn’t deserve. That’s different.

    4. No RB are fast when they drink the magic syrup, which gives them the wing, which gives them flexibility… The rules are sticker this year, they can’t even stretch their wings :) so they use the complaint train maybe it will get them somewhere… When you can’t win, you can always complain, u know?

    5. nonsense Albon is a fine driver !

    6. The problem with Alex is the toxic team he is in.
      They know they’ve got an unpredictable chassis and are resorting to complaints, protests and requests for “clarification” to improve their chances. What they need to do is publicly acknowledge the problems and then work to resolve them. Armchair pundits with long memories will remember other teams facing similar issues and how they were dealt with.

      The way the Red Bull team treats their drivers is truly awful. They simply destroy careers.

  13. I don’t know what’s sadder, the fact that without Mercedes the whole grid would be incredibly close and very mixed up, of the fact that the 2019 Mercedes is far quicker than the rest of the cars. This has been a typically good track for Red Bull and they were so far down, and struggling and Ferrari is sort of up there because this track isn’t power sensitive… Formula 1.5 is now all the grid bar Mercedes…

    1. And with a bit of luck next year we will have at least Norris and Ricciardo joining the party with the Merc and RP drivers

      1. Adam (@rocketpanda)
        18th July 2020, 15:34

        So we’re going to go from a Mercedes 1-4 to a Mercedes 1-6? Yikes.

        1. Formula 1 is such an advertising platform now for Mercedes and not a competition anymore.

          1. It was always an advertising platform!

    2. F1 by nature tends to have one team leading the way. If that bothers you, watch the rest of the field. The fight there is usually pretty epic.

  14. Aaditya Sinha
    18th July 2020, 15:16

    Seemingly not wishing to risk another lap time deletion, Perez posted the fourth-quickest time to join his team mate on the second row.

    I mean, sure Perez is generally quite a bit faster than Stroll, but let’s not try to downplay Stroll’s success here. He looked faster than Perez throughout qualy.

  15. With improvement in Racing Point and Williams, clearly Mercedes have made another step aero/engine wise. While the Ferraris have gone backwards.

  16. Not sure why all this negativity.
    Mercedes might be leading, and with a bigger margin than last year, but the fight and competitiveness behind them is just amazing. F1.5 seems to have caught up with the leaders, except for Mercedes to be promoted to F0.5.

    1. @coldfly I think Red Bull have fallen down as much as the other teams have improved.

    2. @coldfly Mercedes are just an incredible team. Even when they have been absolutely the class of the field for 6 straight years, they still find gains ever more consistently than anyone else. I think this era will go down as an example in all of sports’ history on how to be the master at your own game. As for the others, well, it’s sad to see none challenging Mercedes despite all this years.

      1. Yess!! This comment! So much to learn from this era also

        1. @lems

          Yess!! This comment! So much to learn from this era also

          The only lesson to be learned is that the biggest budget and being based in the UK wins the game 90% of the time. When Ferrari were winning, they had been basically taken over by British engineers.

          1. Red Bull and Ferrari have big budgets too, its goes far beyond that. Toyota were based in the UK I believe, and they also had a big budget but it didnt quite work.. I see your point though.

            Also Todt who was over seeing it all was a Frenchman, although there were British involved he also assigned and worked with a plethora of nationalities

      2. For me I found lewis and totos discussion on sky earlier this year very interesting to learn from. As well as James alison’s beyond the grid interview..
        Perhaps on the opposite end it’s been interesting to learn about Ferraris managment and culture troubles through the hybrid era especially, and also Alain prosts struggles at ferrari in early nineties.. which also leads to Jean todt and the todt schumacher brawn pact.

        Sorry I didnt bother to punctuate my comment but check out those ferrari topics on “the race” youtube channel.

        Also I havent read it yet but I think Keith put up an interesting article about ferrari the other day if you want to check it out https://www.racefans.net/2020/07/15/ferrari-should-heed-this-lesson-from-its-greatest-era-diversity-delivers/

        F1 is perhaps one of the most diverse sports of all, I dont really mean the people I mean the areas of excellence and the intricacies involved.. drivers, fitness, cars, engineering, the countless political aspects.. I’ve learnt a fair bit from f1 and really looking forward to the season ahead

        1. How dare you sound so positive! This thread is about Mercedes ruining F1!!! 😀

  17. This is how Stroll was F3 World Champion. Give him the best car, he’ll delivered. Why spent 90 millions to Lewis when Stroll can pay Merc well and still win it all.

    1. Answer: 2017 and 2018 when the top driver really made a difference

      1. ……+ reliability, Ferrari (and RBR) not being a match to Mercedes in like 25% of the tracks etc.

    2. Yea, that’s exactly how it works. If only all those TPs were as well versed as you are in driver matters.

    3. @ruliemaulana Stroll would not have won the title in 2017 or 2018.

      1. @asherway Generally, major rule changes shake up the competitive order, but Mercedes have managed to still win regardless. I can’t remember any other team managing to do the same. You won’t get any of the rule makers coming out and saying it, but after Mercedes we’re dominant for 3 straight years, it’s pretty much a given that amongst the other wins of more challenging, faster, better looking cars, that they hoped for a shake up in competitiveness as a side effect. Some team principals admitted that’s what they hoped too.

        on the back of an exciting start to this season, and the fact that 2016 machinery has matched fastest laps from previous eras of F1 racing, there are some who have questioned the need to undertake an expensive rules overhaul.

        Horner is adamant, however, that a shake-up of the regulations will be good for F1, because it will move around the competitive order to make things more exciting for fans.

        “I think the change is a positive change,” he explained. “It will make the cars more dramatic, and more challenging for the drivers to drive.

        “It is not a totally clean sheet of paper but it is a significant change, and that will maybe shuffle the order up a bit.

        “I think while the racing has been good this year, a shuffling of the pack is probably not a bad thing.” Christian Horner 2016

        Mercedes have had misgivings about this process since the start. Last November, the world champions wrote a position paper pointing out their concerns.

        It said that cars were already at or approaching historic highs in terms of both downforce and power and questioned the wisdom of speeding them up at a time when there were already concerns about whether the tyres could physically cope.

        This argument was rejected by rivals, many of whom felt Mercedes were trying to protect a competitive advantage.

        – bbc.co.uk 2016

    4. I guess race pace has no meaning to you. Here graphics of it are published after every race, try look at them and think again what you said.

    5. @3dom @mashiat I didn’t say Stroll could win a tight championship. Besides, in 2017 Stroll still a teenager.

      1. @ruliemaulana my point is that 2017 and 2018 are just an example of why the top drivers are offered big money.

  18. Obviously something is not quite working with the Red Bull this weekend, but when they do sort it out, they’ll be hoping that Albon can get closer to Max, as without both cars, they’ll always have a disadvantage in strategy. That’s why I was surprised to see them publicly rule out signing Vettel

    1. I wouldnt worry about redbull. Since 2014 they always start slow and struggle to understand their car. Halfway through the season they normally have it sussed though. In the past they’d blame Renault

  19. That Mercedes was planted to the ground, and what a lap by Hamilton. Ferrari at least in Q3 gives hope for the future, and whatever happened to Redbull?

  20. 1+ second gap to the next team.. thats insane and killing the competition. real shame for all other teams except for RPT who did a great copying job!

    1. AJ (@asleepatthewheel)
      18th July 2020, 15:39

      How does one team stay ahead by that margin after all these years of dominance is beyond me. Surely there has to be some sort of a performance ceiling which a team eventually hits, and others catch up; in engine and aero.

      I genuinely hope for the sake of fair play that RP managed to produce that ‘copy’ on their own merit without any under-the-table assistance from Mercedes. Really pleased to see them hitting it at the sharp end of the grid, and any findings from the Renault protest deeming them illegal would leave a bitter taste in the mouth.

      1. They needed Austria to learn the secrets of setup but that small team is great in getting big things from small budgets.

        Well done RP

    2. The gap between Racing Point and Mercedes is the same as it was last year in Hungary, if you look at Q1 times. It’s just that the other 14 cars in between Hamilton and Perez have dropped out of the gap in between.

      Oh, and rather mysteriously Williams is flying suddenly.

      I believe it now when Binotto said all of the engines were affected. All bar one obviously. This qualifying session made this so painfully obvious.

      1. Wow, thanks for checking and pointing that out.. very interesting stat there

  21. Racing Point 2,7 seconds faster then last year, RBR 0,3 sec slower then last year … nuff said!!

    1. Yes, RB need to quite whining and protesting and make their damn car faster. RB are slower than they were last year. Poor show.

  22. So, If I understood correctly, the current Mercedes are more or less one second faster than last year’s Mercedes. And last year’s Mercedes are STILL faster than the current field.
    What a joke.

  23. I am quit sure that McLaren is going to copy the Mercedes as well if this is legal .. they are the only team that is allowed to change the car because of their swap to Mercedes engine!

    1. As a team with dignity, they won’t do it.

      1. @pironitheprovocateur Spygate 2007 springs to mind…

  24. Blame Horner and RB. Toto said the gloves were coming off. Off they have come. Horner and Co stirred up the Bees nest and this is the result. Merc would’ve at least gave the impression of competition had RB not wound up Merc.

    1. Of course RBR has to blame themselves .. Mercedes did an excellent job on their engine .. i am not saying Racing Point did a great job because they only copy and paste the Mercedes car but if it is legal then OK fair game to them!

  25. This year again shows the utter dominance of the Mercedes team and engine. Seven years already… I wonder how many fans are getting bored and don’t watch it anymore, more than a second faster again, is this a good thing?
    What makes Mercedes so magical? Is it the brilliant minds? Is it the money? Nobody in their right mind would say that Hamilton is not the best driver, and he fully deserves his wins, but I would like to ask LH fans; does it remain fun that your guy wins all races and championships? The only opposition comes from his teammate, he gets no real competition from the other teams. There are drivers who can at least be on his level, like Max, Seb, Charles, Lando etc. But their teams seem not to get their act together.
    This year RP has found its mark, be it a clone or not, they are very fast, and have good drivers, Perez certainly, and Stroll is really not that bad. Next Season it will be Mclaren too. I fear it is only a matter of time that Renault and Honda throw in the towel, they don’t want to spent millions to just get some scraps…

    1. @wbravenboer You’ve lost your credibility when you say Lewis is not a great driver and Vettel, Charles and Lando are on his level, at least with what we’ve seen so far.

      Instead of whining about Mercedes improving every year, like any top tier team is expected to do, why don’t you complain about RB and Ferrari going back compared to last season? Gap wouldn’t be this wide then, would it?

      1. Whoa, English is not my native language, perhaps I said it wrong;
        Lewis is a great driver! Perhaps the greatest of all time!
        And I don’t mean to whine about Mercedes, they are the best, and show it every years, I only tried to say that it makes for very dull races and it would be great if Mercedes and Lewis had some real competition! And I get that other teams don’t have their affairs in order, but it just seems almost improbable that when for instance RB goes 0.5 seconds faster, Mercedes goes 1 second faster.
        It’s just that as a LH fan, is it still fun so see him win every time? For me every Max win is special, and I also was a Senna fan, but even Senna was never as dominant as Lewis (in amount of years, I mean).

      2. Try to understand what you read or at least wrap your silver head around different opinions. He didn’t even say Hamilton’s not an exceptional driver, you just found a strawman to bash.

    2. The magic is just a whole atmosphere and culture of competence. When is the last time Mercedes broke curfew to fix a bad set up direction or get totally lost on set up? When did they go down a major dead end in development and have to revise the PU from scratch? How often do the drivers just spin off or wreck for no reason? When Ferrari had fast cars in 18 and 17 MB was punching back. When Ferrari drop the ball like now MB just stuff it in the back of the net. It’s just a good organization.

    3. I would like to ask LH fans; does it remain fun that your guy wins all races and championships?

      @wbravenboer, I think it’s always it easier to see the threat from a rival driver and team if you support someone rather than watch it as a neutral, so seeing someone you support win will always bring joy. Sport can be so unpredictable, there will always be lows so you have to enjoy the highs while they’re there. 2016 still lingers in the memory that unreliability can play a significant role, and there’s the intrigue of Hamilton chasing Schumacher’s records to also factor in.

  26. What’s absolutely worst for racing, several factors have met this season:

    1) Mercedes making unique gains on power unit – they didn’t seem like one of the best engines towards the end of the last year, but maybe that’s just their strategy, decimating the field in the first third of a season and then backing off a little. They clearly used a special engine mode for the last quali session and it’s obviously working very well. Nevertheless, Honda seemed far more powerful last year.

    2) Red Bull just doing…what? This is what boggles my mind the most. After so many years of more or less stable rules, you would expect a team with such a technical pedigree to finally hit the nail on its head – but it seems like they’ve made a step backwards. It’s not a secret that a huge factor in Mercedes’ technical dominance is the area of suspensions and the overall balance of the car – and it’s hard to believe that no team could get within a few tenths, making gains in this area too.

    3) Ferrari have lost the political war with their engines, their team structure is just a mess and they were unfortunately hit by the coronacrisis. This is, of course, no excuse for their poor performance, but more teams were similarly hit and they obviously couldn’t adapt to the new situation so well. Mercedes with their endless resources – well, what a surprise. Having two top notch factories and the support from one of the largest car manufacturers in the world is a bit of an unfair advantage.

    4) Just a few months ago, some teams might have been fully concentrating on the new rules and the new situation has caught them unprepared for an extra development war. Again, no excuses for Ferrari and Red Bull but if you consider their state of preparedness collided with the crisis, this might not come as such a great surprise.

    All in all, Mercedes was financially and technically prepared in a best way and now they’re securing their dominance into the new rule era by their exceptional relationship with the Racing Point. It will surely help to have twice the allowed budget when Racing Point/Aston Martin won’t develop anything themselves and the additional work of Mercedes engineers will be outsourced there. Back in the day, FIA has done everything to stop Ferrari’s dominance. Are we going to see a direct jab to Mercedes this time? Highly doubt since the politics seem to be too deeply rooted for this.

    1. FIA changed the rules 3 times now to end Mercedes dominance, but they bounce back, they are just a great team.

      1. Those changes had nothing to do with Mercedes dominance, they were specifically made to improve overtaking and to make F1 cars faster. There’s no parallel between these changes and the tyre change ban/change of point scoring system that were done against Ferrari.

        1. Not to mention the testing ban…

        2. @pironitheprovocateur the ban on the front-rear interconnected suspension system was quite clearly aimed at Mercedes – most teams did not have such a system and, when you look at the specifics of that change, there were sections that targeted components that only Mercedes used.

    2. An interesting analysis. This cannot go on though for too much longer. If Mercedes turn up in 2022 with the best car/engine and they appear anywhere near as dominant as they are now, it will kill F1. Renault, Honda and possibly even Red Bull would probably all desert the sport in quick time and there will be no competition left.

      1. @phil-f1-21 The way that the 2022 rules are written, I can imagine that it would be possible to gain that type of advantage. I genuinely believe that the whole field will be much closer.

      2. Renault, Honda and possibly even Red Bull would probably all desert the sport in quick time and there will be no competition left.

        This won’t happen – as long as the owners are still making money from the F1 business. Ever wondered why Williams is still sticking it out? Because they got some money from Lafiti, Lavazza, and other investors recently. The same way McLaren recently got a 300million cash injection from its shareholders.

        The point is, F1 is a business FIRST, entertainment SECOND, and competition LAST.

        The team owners aren’t doing anyone a favor. This is why not a single one has stumped up their own cash nor forfeited their salaries to keep the team running. The moment they are personally unable to make any more money, they will wrap the venture up.

  27. Re your point 3

    Mercedes with their endless resources – well, what a surprise. Having two top notch factories and the support from one of the largest car manufacturers in the world is a bit of an unfair advantage.

    You’re not seriously arguing that Mercedes have an unfair advantage over Ferrari? The team who gets more money just to show up than most other teams for points?..

    1. Who was talking about Ferrari? I was talking about an immense basis Mercedes has and that had nothing to do with how messed up is the situation in Ferrari – Mercedes can use their resources, Ferrari can’t, but there are more factors influencing the position of the team. One of the major differentiators is the political power Mercedes has and the fact that Ferrari has shamefully lost their engine advantage – they are weak politically, a direct opposite to Mercedes. There’s a feeling that Mercedes have hijacked Formula 1 and they are politically stronger than FIA or Formula 1, who don’t dare to do anything against their advantage (and already did a few favours with delaying new engine formula).

      1. Who was talking about Ferrari?


        3) Ferrari have lost the political war with their engines,

        And the first quote about Mercedes is from the end of that paragraph, so perhaps its not so surprising to make the connection?..
        I dont know were that feeling you are talking about is from?.. do you hang around in the F1 paddock or? Its the first I’ve heard of it, but hey you might be right…

  28. So weird that the car that looks the same as the Mercedes, has the same engine and the same investor is the 2nd best car on the grid

  29. For me, almost as shocking as the Mercedes superiority is the inferiority of Alfa Romeo. What are they doing? As a marketing exercise for a car manufacturer, this is about as poor as Honda’s earth car in 07 or 08. Back to the name Sauber in 2021?

  30. Slavisa (@sylversurferr)
    18th July 2020, 17:11

    What Mercedes doesn’t understand it, winning all races without competition at the end will hurt them as it will kill all F1.

  31. The new regulations cannot come quick enough.

  32. I’ve been harsh on Stroll but he has performed here so well done.

    I still don’t think he is F1 standard as he lacks consistency and generally qualifies poorly, notwithstanding today’s performance.

  33. Is it only me who finds F1 to be a bit boring in the last decade? Maybe I am just growing older and my personal preferences are changing.

    (Before somebody gets mad at me, Hamilton is one of the best and Mercedes are one of the best teams in F1 history.)

    1. Sad that you had to add the last sentence, but I understand. No, it’s not just you. While we have witnessed quite a lot of incredible races over the past two and a half seasons, the results has been, with a brief exception of early 2017 and 2018, very predictable. No one except biased fans find it interesting and there’s no will from FIA to go against Mercedes.

      1. F1 has been like this(somewhat) at least twice in the past 2 decades, Schumacher and Vettel’s dominance.

        I guess, any driver winning more than 2 consecutive championships starts to make the sport feel predictable. Sure, other sports have parallels, but F1 is doing something wrong, failing to attract younger generations of fans. F1 is going to be in trouble within 10 years or so.

        Also, as I’ve grown older, the technical/engineering brilliance this sport claims onto itself seems exaggerated. For sure, it has excess and opulence, but not the level of technical brilliance we assume it to be.

        1. Schumacher’s Ferrari and Vettel’s Red Bull were really dominant only twice – 2002 & 2004 vs 2011 & 2013. Mercedes has been dominant for the past five of the last seven seasons and they quite dominantly smashed the end of both 2017 and 2018, too. I agree on the exaggerated level of the technical aspect, but it only seems exaggerated because certain teams can spend insane amounts on development. Technical challenge is a good thing but now when you’re trying out 150,000 designs of a single component.

  34. John Toad (@)
    18th July 2020, 21:41

    So the 2019 Mercedes is faster than all the other teams 2020 efforts, apart from Mercedes themselves

  35. Lol, the things people come up with.

    Lewis the man with 90 poles can be beaten by medicore drivers? Bottas did himself quite good to be within 1 tenth of statistically greatest quali driver.

    The real story is this, Ferrari actually have a good chassis.

    Second story, Racing Point are finally delivering some 2019 Mercedes speed. And it all seems within the regulations.

    For years I was asking myself, why don’t teams just copy Mercedes, why bother with your 2s off pace design? Now someone has bloddy done it! And they are leading their class.

    So the season now really is over for P1, maybe Mercedes can win all races.

    Meanwhile who will be third is wide open.

    And who knows. Maybe next year Vettel in Aston Martin, can overtake Ferraris?

    1. I think the problem with copying a whole design is that even if you literally have a complete chassis to take apart and duplicate down to the bolts you will only be almost as fast as that car, I.e., last years car. (Because you still won’t have the set up data and operational/wrench-turning skills that go with that particular design.) So if you have top team aspirations it’s a waste of time. And you are locked into this approach going forward. But who knew that the top teams with top team aspirations would fall on their faces so that last years model would still be a front runner.

      I think this is what’s off about the complaints about RP copying the WO10. This would usually only be a recipe to lock yourself in the midfield. If Ferrari teams had a good PU And Renault wasn’t still floundering we wouldn’t even be talking about this.

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