Lewis Hamilton, Mercedes, Hungaroring, 2020

Hamilton criticises F1 and Grosjean after hurried pre-race ‘end racism’ stand

2020 Hungarian Grand Prix

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Lewis Hamilton has put renewed pressure on Formula 1 and Grand Prix Drivers’ Association director Romain Grosjean not to let the sport’s stance against racism be pushed into the background.

Drivers assembled for a pre-race gesture of support for campaigns to end racism ahead of the Hungarian Grand Prix, as they did at both races in Austria. Due to a change in the pre-race podium ceremony, this took place in the pit lane.

Not all drivers made it to the area in time for the start of the ceremony, and several of them arrived late. As at previous races, Hamilton and a group of others ‘took a knee’ in a gesture of support for anti-racism campaigners.

Asked whether support for the campaign had lost momentum within F1, Hamilton said Grosjean “doesn’t think it’s important to do it – he’s one of them that thinks it was done once and that’s all we need to do.

“So I tried to speak to him about what the problem is and that it’s not going away and we have to continue to fight for equality.

“I think this time he didn’t mention anything in the drivers’ briefing and neither did Sebastian [Vettel]. Sebastian and I messaged each other and he stressed, as did I, the importance of continuing to do it.”

Hamilton intends to speak to F1 about the ceremony. “I think moving forwards we need to speak with Formula 1. They’ve got to do a better job.

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“It was such a rush: Us getting out of the car, running over, quickly taking the knee… they need to do more.

“I don’t know why they’ve only done it at the first race. They did it at the start, they’ve not done it since then. They’ve come out saying that they’re going to be fighting for diversity and racism but they’re not giving us a platform to continue to do that. It’s all rushed.

“So I think they could give us more time so if we speak to them I’ll probably send an email over the next couple of days and try to co-ordinate with them because they do want to do it, I guess there was just not enough communication.”

Hamilton added he hopes the rest of the drivers will ‘take a knee’ with him and the others in the future.

“With the other drivers, there’s not a lot I can do. I gave a lot of energy in Austria to try to convince a couple of the drivers and it’s a battle. But I think what’s important is the ones that are doing it. The understanding I think is fantastic.

“My dream is that one day the other drivers come around to it and if we get to the last race and we’re all kneeling down and showing that we’re united I think that will be beautiful.”

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Keith Collantine
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119 comments on “Hamilton criticises F1 and Grosjean after hurried pre-race ‘end racism’ stand”

  1. I’m sure Ham will get in the neck, but this is a F1 arrangement. Not something he organised. One of them even walked on during the national anthem playing. And I’m not even sure some turned up for the anthem at all.

    1. Don’t they get fined for missing/turning up late for the national anthem without a valid excuse?

      1. I think their excuse would be the whole thing at the front of the grid has been a shambles this year and no one has an idea whats going on. We still have had no news as to who ordered the live pictures to be replaced by video recording at the last race which was also a mess.
        Although why we parade the drivers at the front of the grid prior to the race for any reason is a mystery to me.

      2. @eurobrun They’re supposed to be (or get reprimanded – I believe that happened to Ocon in China 2018), but no penalty can be issued if there was good cause. Liberty’s apparent inability to organise a student party in a brewery could have prevented adherence to the requirements, and therefore prevent any penalties from being issued. (Procedural error by the authorities has typicaly been considered full mitigation for any offence, although I cannot think of a single rule in the FIA’s lists of regulations that states this in writing).

    2. Wasnt the whole point of taking the knee to do it during the national anthem? If they take a knee before the anthem then stand up during it, it kind of misses the point doesnt it?

      This video explains it pretty well.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMC3WkOUAXQ

  2. Hamilton and Vettel would make for such a nice bromance in a team – it’s a shame we’ll never see it.

  3. Every diversity virtue signaler hate diverse opinions.

    1. Putting aside the fact ‘virtue signalling’ is lazy and vapid, when not really code for approval of the opposite, it’s pretty unjustifiable to label someone who has received racist abuse a ‘virtue signaller’. Doing that, you’re denying their very right to resist being abused. That’s really where you want to be?

      1. There are other minorities on the grid. There are other drivers that didn’t have the luxury of having backed by McLaren in their 12. There are other drivers that willing their wealth to be taxed for public benefit.

        So yeah. He clearly is a virtue signaler.

        1. @ruliemaulana OK, but may I ask, what do you think of the message being said anyway, aside from your dislike of Lewis Hamilton?

          1. @psynrg End racism is great message. But someone who thinks he’s morally superior wear different one and make a complaint to the manager when things don’t proceeds as he wanted to be.

        2. So your response is to ‘virtue signal’ a load of other stuff? Make up your mind. What you’re really implying is that you think Hamilton can’t make a stand about racism, or has no right to, despite being black and having suffered racism (and we know he has), because his own skill and dedication has earned him wealth and success many others don’t have. it’s not really anything to do with ‘virtue signalling’, it’s about your animosity towards his success.

          1. Other stuff? That’s just a simple lines to show that Lewis thinks he’s morally superior than anyone, hence virtue signaler.

    2. This guy types this without a sense of irony apparently

      1. What I don’t fully understand @ruliemaulana is why Hamilton has been seen in all 3 races wearing a different shirt than all the other drivers (when the FIA seem to be pushing the message of ‘we race as one’) and also why no one has yet complained about the inherent racist iconography within the Alfa Romeo badge itself. (I admit that I have never personally experienced racism and that I am a big fan of the Alfa Romeo brand, including the badge – perhaps that why I don’t understand)

        1. @potsie159 You mean the crusade symbol? Didn’t some Swedish already protest their own flag? If we allowed Fredrick Douglas statue to be tore down I don’t know what else.

          1. Yes, the snake eating a black man. I don’t keep up with general news so I don’t know what you are referring to. I’d never heard of ‘taking a knee’ prior to the first race and someone asked me the other day what I thought of Trump and I said he is one of the best snooker players I have ever seen.

  4. Slavisa (@sylversurferr)
    19th July 2020, 17:28

    So actually he admitted that he started to bully others to take a knee.

    1. @sylversurferr Interesting, care to tell us at what point he admitted to bullying others? I must be reading a different article.

      1. Roth Man (@rdotquestionmark)
        19th July 2020, 17:47

        I guess he means by publicly shaming people who aren’t doing as they’re told.

        1. I think bullying is a bit strong but I’ve lost a lot of respect for Hamilton now he’s calling out anyone who doesn’t do exactly what he wants.

          It’s one thing to encourage people to speak out on racism, I don’t think anyone reasonable would disagree with that, but when you start trying to force people to support your cause it only causes more division.

          1. Nik (@nickelodeon81)
            19th July 2020, 22:25

            I see no evidence of force. I see Lewis passionately making the case.

          2. Bullying does not have to be physical

      2. Just the way some people are doing it here and everywhere else. When someone disagrees with this charade, he is automatically marked as a racist and so on…

        Instead of taking knees and nonsense like that, he should maybe put his hundreds of millions into good use. He can educate and equalize so many people with all that cash, but no – taking a knee will do it…

        1. @proteus Can’t he do both? He is putting his money into the causes he is passionate about, aswell as showing his own personal support and encouraging others to support it too.

        2. If you don’t want to be marked as racist, perhaps avoid calling efforts to end the systemic oppression people of colour have suffered for centuries (and continue to suffer today) a “charade”.

      3. Its mental gymnastics these people are pro at this. They will take anything and turn it around even if it doesnt make sense

        1. Alex Ferrando
          20th July 2020, 4:48

          Just another great expectable that falls into the “politically correct” black hole.
          What a pity , that was something I was really enjoying. An event without “a message of something”, just admiring the superb skills of fearless drivers, top technology and smart fast decisions at 300 kph with lots of guts. No longer. Sad.

          1. You’re either increadibly naive to think that *any* sport exists in a vacuum detached from politics (not that this is political – it’s just basic human decency), or are wilfully opposed to efforts to end systemic racism.

    2. @sylversurferr There’s a difference between persuasion and bullying. We don’t have enough information to know which of those occurred, since neither Lewis nor anyone he spoke to has provided sufficient information to attempt such judgement.

  5. Hey HAM, they don’t really care, they just did what they had to in order to shut you up.

    That’s why it’s a one and done. They won’t say it, but actions speak louder than words.

    1. Correct. So the others have been found out?

    2. kevin citron
      19th July 2020, 19:21

      Hammy should go protest in his own time against whatever perceived injustices he feels. the rest of us are here to watch racing and would appreciate the respite from the political manure being shoved down our throats

      1. He did, and I think it was reported on this very site no less before the start of the season.

      2. Having the ability to walk away from and ignore the fact that racism is happening is privilege. Hamilton has spent his whole life as the target of racism and discrimination, and these actions are a reminder to people who have been lucky enough never to suffer it that it is still happening every day.

        If you find it uncomfortable or annoying to be reminded of the suffering of others, then do something to help them stop that suffering, rather than calling for them to be silenced.

        1. Thank you nice to see this site isn’t completely packed with trashy racist scum

          1. So now if someone does not agree with them ,they are racist scum? I think both sides need to take a break.
            You are just talking past each other.

        2. If Hamilton grew up with racism around every corner, can we at least admit it had zero to do with the United States?

      3. kevin citron does not speak for “the rest of us”.

        Just to be clear to anybody reading this.

        1. Neither do you, you speak for yourself only.
          I still have a lot of respect for LH as a driver but I’m getting very tired of his bullying of other drivers and trying to us F1 as a platform for his political views.
          I’m here to watch F1 and discuss the action on the track.
          Can we please get the focus back to the on track action and not the virtue signalling.

      4. Nik (@nickelodeon81)
        19th July 2020, 21:43

        Protests are by definition inconvenient. That’s why they work. You don’t like it? Good. That’s a protest. Otherwise it’s just another opinion you can ignore

        1. They don’t work, they just make the people that aren’t interested in the cause more likely to oppose it.

          1. @ceevee If protests don’t work, and not doing anything doesn’t work, do you have an alternative suggestion? Mass, violent uprising perhaps?

  6. We support you Lewis. All the way.

  7. Forgive my ignorance, but didn’t the taking the knee gesture originate in the US, as a US sportsman protesting against the national anthem of a country which openly persecutes blacks and other ethnic minorities?

    I am just not sure what is being protested against when the anthems play at the start of races. Are they saying all nations are as bad as the US? If they take the knee at the British grand prix, what does than mean about the opinion towards the UK?

    1. But they don’t kneel during the anthem…

      1. As ninjenius says… they DO NOT kneel during any national anthems. It has already been said numerous times that the people that are prepared to take a knee will not do so during the national anthem of any country.

    2. Martin Luther King often took the knee. It’s not a new thing at all.

    3. The protests are not specific to the country they are taking place in. It’s a gesture that may have originated in the US but has now taken on a more general expression of support for BLM and ending racism.

      1. Ok, thanks guys, I haven’t really been watching the build-ups but that now makes sense, thanks

    4. Martin Freeman
      19th July 2020, 21:28

      That’s the first I’ve heard that Kapernick was protesting against a song but now that you mention it they do mostly suck.

    5. Sorry, there’s a lot wrong with that statement. They originated because a black NFL player wanted to protest police brutality against black people in the US. By the way, facts & figures don’t agree with his statement.

      A lot of people are tired of hearing about it, because the facts don’t agree with his statement. Then he lost his NFL job and was offered many opportunities but he chose not to accept those opportunities because they didn’t pay him enough. This was all very publicized. He got major Nike deals worth millions to make a few statements a year & like I said, he complained that he was never offered a position on an NFL team but he was offered several positions over the years and he declined them stating monetary reasons.

      So right now, many people are sick of the whole issue, because both the fact that the facts and statistics were never in his favor, nor did he want to play football — he just wanted money out of the whole thing.

      Now, after what happened in the US recently, Hamilton has taken it upon himself to shame people into “taking a knee”. Some people here on this site are certain that people dislike him because of his race, but you know what? A lot of people disliked Vettel when he was winning, a lot of people disliked Schumacher when he was winning and a lot of people dislike Hamilton because he’s winning. On top of that, he’s winning while also whining, and his fans–same as Vettel fans and Schumacher fans before–are also fairly blind and love to argue. It’s also the case with Verstappen and his fans and YES as soon as Verstappen starts winning for half a decade and there’s no competition because of the car, people will hate Verstappen, too.

      But all Hamilton & his fans see are that people dislike him, and they say it’s because of some vague argument they refuse to say out loud.

      1. Thank you for mentioning the facts do not back up rampant police brutality against blacks. They are arguing a ghost that doesn’t exist.

      2. Roth Man (@rdotquestionmark)
        20th July 2020, 8:47

        Excellent comment

  8. This whole kneeling-thing is just starting to get more and more redundant.

    1. I applaud Hamilton for raising his voice and ‘taking a knee’.
      He seem to have hso priorties wrong though if his “dream is that one day the other drivers come around to it”. The objective should be to raise awareness and ultimately end racism. Now it seems Hamiton is focussing on ‘symbolism’ rather than the underlying problem (which I’m sure is the wrong impression).
      And if 1 driver kneels it might get more press than when they do a slickly organised ‘show’ before the race.

      1. @coldfly

        Now it seems Hamiton is focussing on ‘symbolism’ rather than the underlying problem

        That is what the world wants. That’s why it’s called “virtue signaling”. It is just a symbol, or a “signal” that they believe in what is virtuous. Hamilton, I believe, has done some things on his own, quietly. And this idea that if someone isn’t actively fighting against something then they are part of the problem is ludicrous. I know you didn’t say that, but it is how Hamilton is acting.

      2. @coldfly But Hamilton, as just one (albeit influential and wealthy) person, is unable to bring about change. But he *can* use symbolism to try and get others to join the cause. If he and others can concvince enough people, that’s is when change can happen.

        Symbolism can be very powerful.

        1. @fluxsource, I agree that symbolism can be very powerful if it is aimed to increase awareness.
          But my impression based on the way he is pushing this, it is no longer focussed on getting the message out, but more on everybody has to do the same as he does, and will be singled out (just shy of bullied) if they don’t. Hamilton seems so focussed on why don’t you do as I do, rather than how he can make a difference.
          If Sainz wears an ‘End Racism’ t-shirt it might be more powerfull than when he joins in an orchastrated kneeling photo-op.

          As I mentioned a few weeks ago, I would not ‘take a knee’ myself but I have the utmost respect for people who do so (especially when the environment is hostile to such actions). I would find it disappoing though, and short-sighted, if others judge me as ‘part of the problem’ due to this personal decision.

    2. Martin Free Man
      19th July 2020, 21:30

      Hah! Very very good one!

  9. Paul Clifton
    19th July 2020, 18:00

    Lewis you will loose your fans Don’t bring politics into F1.
    You will end up being called a racist yourself.
    Simply All Lives Matter you say that You All Race As One and That’s Enough

    1. They’ll never say all lives matter. The messsge is, its one race against every other race. They are driving a wedge and have no clue they’re doing it.

      1. Seriously you think they have no clue? I find it quite deliberate

  10. Instead of taking a knee they could just do a shoey instead. That’s a guaranteed crowd pleaser

  11. Must be nice to have the best car on the grid. It gives you time to worry about who is taking a knee and for how long.

    If Mercedes only hired people based on diversity and not talent perhaps he wouldn’t have the best car and would be able to focus lifting up a lesser team.

    1. It wasn’t the best car; and he and others did lift it up, despite the numerous activities outside of driving that were far more onerous than talking a knee. But why would either Mercedes or Hamilton be interested in a hiring system that’s based on diversity above talent? Neither of them have shown any interested in such an approach. Nevertheless they have shown an interest in; and put resources into, broadening out opportunities at all levels for those who may be disadvantaged in some way. And concurrently ended up as the best driver and team with the best car. So maybe their approach works; and that’s why they both are keen to continue it?

      1. kevin citron
        19th July 2020, 19:26

        why doesn’t he start mandating diversity at the mercedes factory? see how that turns out.

        i’ll have more respect for him and the team, when they start to practice what they preach.

        1. I thought I’d answered that. But you are basically saying he should not do what he’s been doing for years, or what he believes is right in relation to opening up opportunities for those who are disadvantaged. Work he does in conjunction with bodies such as Save the Children, Educating Africa, Harlem Zone, British Military, UN, etc. He should do what you want him to do, so you can criticise him for doing it.
          Maybe you should actually listen to what he preaches instead of jumping to conclusions that have no relation to the realities of what he does.

          1. A well composed, intelligent analysis of the unjustified criticisms of efforts to support diversity.

            Followed by silence.

          2. kevin citron
            20th July 2020, 0:03

            no you didn’t answer it. you’ve mentioned some fluffy lip service stuff about harlem which is immeasurable and most likely irrelevant. let’s see what he and toto think about mandating more diversity at the factory. but you wont hear the answer to that bc no reporter has the balls to ask lewis straight questions.

        2. Equality and ending racism does not happen by forcing a form of mandated positive racism. Racism is when people treat other people negatively based on their “race”, but if equal number of applicants are black and equal are white, and if white applicants have more experience or a better background in the position, then white applicants should get the job. If 3 black people apply and they are superior to all white applicants in terms of experience & knowledge, then those 3 black people should all get the job. That’s… exactly what equality means.

  12. If HAM wants to unite F1, he should wear the same shirt as all the other drivers! By wearing a BLM t-shirt opposed to the “End Racism” t-shirts the others are wearing, he purposely sets himself apart from the others.

      1. Totally agreed…

        Wearing that shirt is disregarding the message F1 wants that WeRaceasone means all lives are equal… Lets discount the Whites on this ocassion, so him wearing BLM will not speak to other non-whites in the poddock, there are Japanese technicians there, Thai driver and a Mexican.

        I hope other driver don’t follow this dude, he is acting as a boss now because he is black?

    1. And by default confirms that his call is not “End Racism” like everyone else, but rather something else…

      1. And what would that “something else” be @malrg ?

  13. As ninjenius says… they DO NOT kneel during any national anthems. It has already been said numerous times that the people that are prepared to take a knee will not do so during the national anthem of any country.

  14. I think hamilton has the right to do as he pleases, I do not think he has the right to coerce others into something they’re not comfortable with.

    1. @jt1234 I agree, but he also should not have the right to coerce others into something regardless of their comfort level.

  15. GtisBetter (@)
    19th July 2020, 21:05

    It’s actually human nature to loose interest in it. It happened with kneeling in the USA too. Before trump made a big deal out of it, the kneeling and other protests had faded to the background. This is why change is hard and takes so long. I do think Lewis picked out Grosjean because he is the Grand Prix Drivers’ Association director.

    I also agree that if they do it, they should do it properly and get enough time. Last week there were also people late.

  16. Had enough already let him do it if he wishes but stop brow beating everybody….And what’s with the chain around his neck he’s worth £100m doesn’t pay tax drives a car for a company who supported the Nazis why not take a knee for 6million + jews

  17. Genuine question here, not an attempt to promote controversy.
    Why is this issue seen as a white/black issue only?
    There are many more races and ethnic groups than these two, even in the microcosm of the F1 gris.
    So why aren’t any other racial grouping involved?

    1. Jack (@jackisthestig)
      19th July 2020, 22:31

      I guess it’s the way the word spreads over social media. This all kicked off while everyone was bored in lockdown and George Floyd was killed. The video and following discussion was accompanied with the black lives matter hashtag and it spread like wildfire. The focus of all this discussion is centred around the sentiment ‘black lives matter’, if you don’t publicly endorse that exact message you risk the wrath of those who do and you’re considered racist or at the very least a narrow-minded dinosaur.

    2. @ceevee I would say slavery, but all colors were enslaved in some form over the course of Americas creation. I think it’s coming down to the fact that slavery endured for black people for much longer, and was much more widely publicized. Native Americans were genitally mutilated and the women poisoned until the 1970s, but that wasn’t publicized because the Native Americans didn’t scream and yell and fight as loudly as the black people did. So maybe that’s what it is, being loud and annoying.

      Japanese/Chinese kept their mouths shut, did what they were told & eventually earned positions of power. As did Mexicans & Irish in the US. We also have Jews who were gassed by Hitler. I agree with your question, though, it’s always been about black & white here in the US and it just seems that it’s because black people are more interested in screaming and shouting about the problem as opposed to other nationalities / races. This isn’t a dig at that or at them, just a statement of fact.

      1. There isn’t anybody alive today that suffered slavery in the USA, but I find it ironic that Hamilton drives for a team that practised slavery in living memory.
        Rather than protesting about historical cases of slavery, why not protest slavery that exists today?
        You can’t correct historical injustices but you can stop it happening today and in the future.

        1. @ceevee which you no doubt typed using an item that absolutely went through slave-mindset Chinese Communist Party’s factory-mill, and probably while wearing clothes fashioned in a factory which also has slave-like conditions.

          As we all do, probably. Same as Hamilton.

          The only difference is that slaves knew they were never going to be free whereas the majority of these people “choose” (laughable) to live in those conditions because otherwise the company will go after family members.

          Very much like the “company man” miner in the USA not even that long ago.

          However your question is why is it a white/black discussion when there are so many races that are not being discussed? And why do I say slavery? Because that’s the “lowest common denominator” argument they can make. There are plenty of proofs to refute their modern claims, but once they start talking about how their ancestors were this or that, everybody else starts to feel bad. These aren’t arguments of truths, or even ethics, they are arguments of feelings.

          1. @neiana – But yes the rest of your argument after the first paragraph is sensible to me. (Not that it should matter to you, LOL)

      2. On the other hand American Indians had black slaves and there were over 150 black slave owners in North Carolina alone.
        And much of Britain in fact was by slaves but has been hidden.
        Although slavery was abolished in England in 1807, the government paid off the slave owners big time. In fact, the British tax payers only recently finished paying off that debt.
        Brits shouldn’t be pointing a finger at America – they have skin in the game.

    3. @ceevee – Your question is exactly what so many have been trying to get across in these forums, racism is real, but is is not focused. So yes 100%, the focus on Black / White is a failure waiting to happen.

    4. @ceevee

      Because if you bring in other races, the Social Justice ideology falls apart. According to that ideology, if a racial group does better than another, it is because of racism in favor of the group doing better. Furthermore, this racism happens by majorities against minorities.

      Yet Asian-Americans and Jews do better than white Americans, even though both are minorities and both clearly face more racism than white people (or at least, they used to, before Social Justice racism). In fact, Jews are 2% of the American population, but are 25% of the top 400 of richest Americans.

      The reason why there is so much antisemitism among the far left is that because many of them deny that culture plays a major role in how successful ethnic groups are, so the only way those people can then explain Jewish success is by antisemitic conspiracy theories.

      1. @aapje – You’re going to get slaughtered here, even though you are right…
        The whole Black/White thing no longer holds water, it is designed to guilt white people for historical events in order to gain some kind of an advantage (Like white people are the only ones that ever committed wrongs).
        Why would anyone in this day and age feel guilty? non of us can be held accountable for what people did before we were even born, I ask those anyone out there, if you father commits murder, should you be sentenced to life in prison? No, you are not responsible for any ones actions except you own.
        No doubt, Racism is real, and the “End Racism” call is fantastic, but lets stop blaming specific cultures, races or demographics, acknowledge the global issue and start looking for real solutions. (Solutions do not = BLM riots in the streets or Black Power salutes on the podium)

      2. @aapje Your alleged evidence is false on almost every metric (the only one I can think of where either Asian Americans or American Jews consistently do better than white Americans is in university-related metrics). Unsurprisingly, the false premises (i.e. incorrect evidence) results in a false conclusion. In terms of wealth, there are some rich American Jews, but also a lot of poor American Jews.

        There are, of course, lots of poor Americans of every ethnic category, and social justice theory has long recognised classism, just like it has racism, disablism and a number of other -isms. Claiming otherwise is not compatible with knowledge of what social justice theory is. (Those who wish to look into social justice theory would also do well to look into “power dynamics in social justice theory”, which is an important explainatory concept, not only for why discrimination issues are primarily majorities discriminating minorities, but also why under some circumstances the opposite happens).

        (Anti-Semitism is common across the political spectrum in many countries, and note that as an amalgam of religious, cultural and in some cases ethnic elements, can neatly package several -isms in one go).

        1. @alianora-la-canta, his numbers may be wrong, I don’t know. But the point still stands, people of all cultures/races/religions ETC have been and are successful, this is evidence that anyone can be successful in that environment and therefore those that are not happy should look at themselves and stop blaming others.
          Of coarse racism is real and we should be striving for a better world, but it is not the cause and this is not the way. This is the way the world has dealt with conflict for ever and we all know it does not work. It is time we learnt from the past mistakes and stopped repeating them.

        2. @alianora-la-canta

          It is a fact that Jewish Americans have double the average income of non-Jewish Americans. You can see this fact on the Wikipedia page on ‘American Jews.’ This means that their average income is far higher than non-Jewish white Americans.

          You demonstrate neatly what a lot of Social Justice people do to avoid facing up to the full consequences of their ideology: deny facts that are inconvenient.

          Just answer these two questions:
          – Do black Americans have lower incomes than white Americans solely due to forms of discrimination against blacks and in favor of whites?
          – Do white Americans have lower incomes than Jews solely due to forms of discrimination against whites and in favor of Jews?

          If your answers are different, then please explain by what mechanism Jews achieve higher incomes. Note that if you point to perpetuating wealth or classism, you need to explain how Jews as a group accumulated more wealth and/or became over-represented in the upper class in the first place. I’d also like to hear whether you think that Jewish Americans have a similar obligation towards non-Jewish Americans as you think white Americans have to black Americans?

  18. what a narcist… other drivers have spoken out agains racism a lot and given their reasons why they don’t take a knee as lord hamilton said they had to do.

  19. Taking a knee is specifically to address brutality by the United States police against black United States citizens. Black Lives Matter is specifically to address brutality by the United States police against black United States citizens. Ending racism is everyone’s responsibility, but both of these things has nothing to do with the police in a country other than the United States. Those two things are specific to United States law enforcement misconduct.

    F1 has properly spoken up against racism and are still running banners stating as such. If Hamilton wants to pursue racism, he needs to come up with his own messages and causes other than taking a knee and BLM, cause now he is convoluting the message with United States law enforcement abuses. That’s why everybody’s scratching their heads over it. His message is more and more leaning towards United States law enforcement rather than racism.

    1. Statistically there is not even remotely a police epidemic of brutality towards black people. As soon as you scratch the surface of number of police interactions, number of shootings, races involved it all falls apart. 10 unarmed black men killed a year out of 3 million police interactions doesn’t back up the claims of systemic police brutality. And about the same amount of unarmed whites are killed each year.

      1. Here’s a true story for ya. I’m an alarm technician. I had to do the grave shift for over a year. My job was to show up and make sure the alarm reset properly. I showed up many times when the cops were already there but the store owners weren’t. Only twice did I happen to be there when the cops caught someone. And both times they beat the hell out of these people after they were in handcuffs. One was a drunk bum trying to break into a liquor store, and one was a bum trying to steal clothes from a thrift store in the dead of winter. And there were cops there who could have stopped the ones doing the beatings, but didn’t. Good luck trying to convince me of stats.

        1. @jet – So your two experiences prove all the thousands of stats to be wrong? You probably need a few hundred more experiences for it to even remotely represent the average.

        2. @Jet – I.E. By your reasoning, had you watched only the Belgium and Italian F1 events in 2019 you would be saying that Leclerc wins everything and Hamilton’s wins are a statistical lie.

        3. @Jet – Good luck convincing me that there have been 108 grand prix winners because I went to two and Leclerc won both of them, LOL

  20. End Racism, a fine goal, impossible but worth taking steps in the right direction.

    BLM on the other hand is a terrible organisation that infantalises blacks by pretending that the problem lies entirely with everyone else. There is no other minority pressure group that makes as much noise as BLM, it’s political and no coincidence that they get active every 4 years (do a few google analytics searches to prove that for yourselves). Drivers are not stupid, they will have read up on the subject and if they’re anything like me, be horrified at the thought of having anything to do with BLM who do nothing for the education and betterment of black people.

    While he promotes BLM, Lewis has lost my support.

    1. So you don’t watch Sky Sports? They support BLM, carry the banner, and have trailers and fillers on all their platforms.

      1. No, I don’t subscribe to Sky of any kind, so I can’t comment upon what seems like a bit of a ‘look squirrel’.

    2. Agreed.. well said.

  21. @melanos – Not sure its people posing as “antiracists”, I think its people with a brain that can see through the rubbish , Lewis has crossed a line by doing black power salutes and trying to bully and shame people into doing what he want and is now loosing support. No surprise that his attitude is starting to back fire.
    “End Racism “is an undeniably great cause, Black Power Salutes, BLM movement, White lives Matter ETC, cause more problems than they solve.
    I also think that you do not have the right to judge people in this forum based on your perspective, everyone here has a perspective based on their own lives and experiences, you should apologise.

  22. So much reactionary bs flowing here… I often wonder if people who get mad at those who denounce bigotry ever ask themselves why the denunciation irks them more than the bigotry itself.

  23. Is it a protest or is it part of the ceremony? Kaepernick did not ask for time in the schedule to do what he did. He did what he did despite not getting the time or place given to him. That is what protesting is. It is doing something disruptive to draw attention to a topic you want to talk about. Hamilton is so focused on the show aspect of his kneeing that he almost doesn’t know that the knee is just the thing that gets you the attention so you can talk your topic later. Hamilton’s stance is much weaker because it relies almost completely on it being comfortable and easy for him to do his thing. Instead of making sure his gesture gets noticed he expects the organizers to go out of their way to give him is moment.

    It was almost hilarious when they did the hurried knee and then just everybody walked away. It just went on to show how empty gesture it is. What would have made it powerful was if hamilton would have taken the time that was not given to him and done the kneeing anyways. Be disruptive. Stand for your cause when it is not convenient, when you are not given special time in the ceremony or when it could hurt you. If you need more time you take more time. He was more worried about losing 10 seconds of his pre-race preparations than actually doing his protest correctly.

    1. @socksolid – yep! and now he is deflecting from his own failure by calling out everyone else. That is the theme of the whole movement, deflect from you own failure by blaming others for it.

  24. Because i see all people as equal, thats why i am not collaborating with this charade that is going on. I dont need to tap my back how great person i am for silly protesting that only makes more problems. Take a little look how much violence and destruction against ordinary people happened because of this. Not to mention how the statistics of certain crimes risened. You are simply ignorant just because it is against your agenda.

  25. Simon Davies
    20th July 2020, 6:17

    I think Hamilton needs to be careful. This whole movement must ultimately respect the individuals choice. Whether they do or do not want to take a knee should be respected. Personally I hate racism and all forms of discrimination but I would not take a knee. Equally I hate anyone who tries to restrict the freedom of others and impose their way of thinking. I thought that is what anti- racism proponents are trying to stop?

    1. Agree, restricting the freedom of others (Or attempting t do so) or guilting / demanding / coercing specific action, specifying only one race ETC is actually no different to the racism itself, just not as extreme

  26. Honestly I’d rather LH just did this quietly on his own and not shame others into doing it, and I say this as an ‘ethnic minority’ in the country I’m living in that did experience racism growing up.

    I feel like it might have more of an impact if he was the only one doing it, because then someone watching might ask the question ‘why is that one guy kneeling?’ and promote awareness in that way instead. The way it’s happening now with half of them kneeling and half of them not, it kind of looks like one of those team photos you’d see of a football/soccer team where the guys in the back are standing and the guys in the front are sitting/kneeling, and I think the end result is it doesn’t really have any impact at all.

    I think the better way to promote awareness though is a lot of the messages that you are seeing around the race tracks and on drivers cars. But yeah if LH wants to continue with ‘the knee’ then that’s up to him, and if others don’t want to, then they shouldn’t be made to feel bad about that or to feel like they’re suddenly racist because they don’t want to do it.

  27. The cause is illegit…there are no stats supporting the claims that police in the USA are mis-treating blacks…in fact, most stats show the opposite.

    1. I feel the issue is very personal, individuals judge the world based on their personal experience. Personal experience is emotional, creates a perception which is very real for each and every one of us and we tend to paint the world with our own brush.
      Solutions are very difficult: Maybe not possible
      Personal assessment, very difficult to do without bias.
      A willingness to look at the big picture and acknowledge it even if it conflicts with personal experience and emotional attachment to a perception of the broader reality.
      Deep interrogation and understanding of the overall.
      Academic and intelligent approach to finding solutions.
      ETC?
      unfortunately movements like BLM (and others equal and opposite) backfire as they always have, riots, violence ETC on the streets produce emotional responses from those that fall victim, loose possessions or loved ones, even if they are rational people and try to view these things intellectually, the emotions generally win out and turn them against the perpetrators, in this case viewed as members of BLM. Thus the result of the movements is exactly the same as the cause of the movement and nobody wins except the Political and Media drivers.
      BLM arose in response to violence and now it is guilty of violence itself. Yes, I know people will argue that the violence is not being perpetrated by BLM…, irrelevant, as I said at the start of this post, it comes down to perception and victims will perceive BLM to be the cause, therefore it is. (Perception is reality)
      Issue has come full circle and the divide is probably wider.

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