Lewis Hamilton says Red Bull are not operating at their full potential because only one of their cars is consistently challenging the Mercedes pair.
After seven races, Red Bull’s Max Verstappen is second in the drivers’ championship, 47 points behind Hamilton. But his team mate Alexander Albon is 62 points behind his team mate, who has out-scored him in every round they’ve finished.Albon has tended to qualify several places behind Verstappen, which Hamilton says is limiting Red Bull’s strategic options in the races.
“What you’ve got to look at with the Red Bulls is I think they’ve got a very good car – people downplay it but they’ve got a very, very strong car,” Hamilton told Sky. “Max is doing a great job with it.
“Unfortunately, both drivers aren’t there like me and Valtteri [Bottas] are. That makes it harder for them.
“I’ve experienced it many years ago when I was at McLaren and I was the driver that was always at the front and didn’t have a team mate backing up. So you equally don’t get the constructors’ points, but then can’t play strategy on the cars that your racing against. So they’ve got that, he’s kind of there on his own.”
Earlier in the weekend Red Bull team principal Christian Horner defended Albon’s performances since he joined the team ahead of last year’s Belgian Grand Prix as a replacement for Pierre Gasly.
“Everybody’s obviously got an opinion on this topic but they don’t have really the facts,” said Horner.
“Alex is doing a good job in what’s been a difficult car this year. It’s a different car to last year, I’d say the car’s harder to drive than 12 months ago.
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“When he got in the car 12 months ago he did a much stronger job than Pierre had done up to that point in the year. I think Alex has got a lot of talent that obviously we haven’t seen come to the surface yet.
“You think back to some of the great drivers, whether it’s a [Michael] Schumacher or an [Ayrton] Senna, and being a driver alongside those guys was very tough. I think that’s a similar situation that the seat alongside Max has at the moment.
“Alex is only going to get better. He’s still pretty young and inexperienced. This is only his second season of F1 racing and we’re doing all that we can to support him and develop him.”
Horner pointed out Albon’s results would look better this year if he hadn’t been knocked out of second place by Hamilton in the season-opening Austrian Grand Prix.
“This is a driver that nearly won the first race of the year. Strategically we were sharp, he obviously got turned around by Lewis that race. He was fighting for the podium and should have been on the podium in Brazil at the end of last year [where Hamilton also hit him].
“I think he’ll have more Sundays like that in the coming races where he’s competing and fighting for podium finishes on merit. So, the team has confidence in him and belief in him and we’re happy with our choice.”
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2020 F1 season
- Pictures: Wrecked chassis from Grosjean’s Bahrain fireball crash to go on display
- Bottas vs Rosberg: Hamilton’s Mercedes team mates compared after 78 races each
- F1 revenues fell by $877 million in Covid-struck 2020 season
- Hamilton and Mercedes finally announce new deal for 2021 season
- F1 audience figures “strong” in 2020 despite dip in television viewers
Zann (@zann)
30th August 2020, 21:48
I can’t believe Lewis said exactly the same thing as Martin Brundle! Before the spin at least.
BeMine
31st August 2020, 8:07
I would love to see MV become LH team mate. MV will be on top.
Zann (@zann)
31st August 2020, 13:09
Oh of course! Max has 2 poles now after all :)
But teasing aside, they are both awesome racing drivers, in fact too awesome ever to be in the same team, and different generations anyway. Meantime, whatever they do, you and I are just our same awesome selves. Don’t forget!
JCost (@jcost)
31st August 2020, 9:05
Red Bull should get their hands on Perez.
Zann (@zann)
31st August 2020, 9:41
Perez @jcost? He’s midfield, like Hulk, there’s no reason to suppose he can handle a sharp car is there? At least Alex is still improving, they have to stay with him I think. And if you read Lewis’ actual words he’s not suggesting they change him either.
In any case I reckon it’s a bit like Irvine said about Schumi, that Max is too good to develop a car: he can drive around faults too well. If they can get to a car that works for Albon, Max will be quicker in it as well.
Kansas
31st August 2020, 19:44
You mean the guy that tried to put Gasly in the wall yesterday?
Jay
30th August 2020, 21:52
The gap in the races and championship is similar between him and Vatteri.
Perhaps he is also pushing Toto for a stronger team-mate? Like Alonso or Rosberg? No! Oh well….
San
30th August 2020, 22:04
Not the point. Bottas may finish behind Hamilton but he’s not half a lap down all the time. Albon is never in the picture.
Verstappen is racing against Mercedes. Albon is fighting Renault, McLaren and Racing Point.
Chaitanya
31st August 2020, 3:31
Gasly before used to struggle to keep up with Toro Rosso and barely caught up to Renault, RP, Mclaren.
regs (@regs)
31st August 2020, 4:47
Gasly tried to race Verstappen. Albon tried to race Verstappen. Now let Kvyat to race Verstappen. With good car and good mechanics he outperformed Ricciardo.
TrickyMario7654
31st August 2020, 8:36
Kvyat never outperformed Ricciardo. It was only Ricciardo’s horrible luck with reliability that caused Kvyat to outscore him in 2015 (by three points!!!)
Going by your logic, Ricciardo outperformed Verstappen over their three years as teammates as the score is 2-1 in Ricciardo’s favour.
Chaitanya
31st August 2020, 8:38
Kvyat certainly has matured(compared to 1st stint) but given how weird this season is maybe we might see change next year. But there is very little chance of Kvyat getting chance in RBR next year as well.
Jose Lopes da Silva
31st August 2020, 13:16
Great myths never die, and the Kvyat-outperformed-Ricciardo is one of the more resilient.
The objective reality of Kvyat being beaten in sucession by Albon and Gasly is not enough to bring questions about that 2015-long-ago myth. Like Sagan said, science is really a candle in the dark.
regs (@regs)
31st August 2020, 13:53
@TrickyMario7654
Actually it was Kvyat, who experience a lot of reliability issues back in the year. And still opened Ricciardo.
DeVante
31st August 2020, 22:14
That same myth about Button outperformed Hamilton, scoring more points.
Tim
1st September 2020, 14:09
You know there is something wrong with people’s mind when they call clear stats and pure numbers as a “myth”. Well, it can’t be helped, we’re living in the era of “alternative facts”.
Nobody says “Kvyat is a better driver” than Ricciardo. Guys, you’ve just been told that Kvyat outperformed him that year, that’s a simple fact. Like nobody says “Rosberg is better than Hamilton”. But Nico outperformed Lewis in 2016. That’s a fact. Higher numbers doesn’t mean “better skills”, but in the end it’s the only measure of the driver’s performance through the given year that’s matter. And I’m sorry if I bent someone’s tinfoil hat.
Keith Campbell (@keithedin)
31st August 2020, 0:07
I haven’t done the maths yet, and we will have a fuller picture by the end of the year, but I’d also be interested in the comparison in gaps between Hamilton and Bottas, and Verstappen to Albon. I suspect the main difference is that the Hamilton qualifying 4 tenths ahead of Bottas is the difference between P1 and P2, whereas Verstappen qualifying 4 tenths ahead of Albon can be the difference between P3 and P10.
Albon’s qualifying gap has been a bit larger on average I’d guess at the start of this year, probably due to the difficult car, but other than that I don’t think he’s doing as bad a job as people think. It’s just the midfield is so stacked that a few tenths in qualifying costs a huge number of grid places, and therefore compromises his races with traffic (bad strategies also haven’t helped him).
slowmo (@slowmo)
31st August 2020, 0:16
He still went backwards one place behind a slower car in this race despite starting 5th. At some point something has to give. Id be asking for a new strategy caller if I was him.
geoffgroom44 (@)
31st August 2020, 7:26
strategy seemed to be everything.Alex managed to push medium tyres to the end and only his tyre deg allowed ocon to pass at the last. I was watching timings and was suprised to see that RB kept him going so long on that set of mediums.Of copurse, RB put their 2nd driver on mediums to see what happened, probaly with a view to changing their 1st driver to mediums if another safety car allowed.
On the Marbles
31st August 2020, 9:25
Yup, as in some other races RB seem to be using ALbon as an information gathering source for Verstappens next tyre change. That can’t be helping Albon.
geoffgroom44 (@)
31st August 2020, 7:43
Spa qualifying was a big improvement for Alex. Q2 1:42:194 Max 1:43:473. Q3 Alex 1:42:264 Max 1:42:080 (with 5 minutes left) and Max having done 2 laps more.
This suggests to me that Alex is almost on par, but certainly getting much closer now in quali.
I get the feeling, rightly or wrongly, that RB strategy calls have more to do with experimentation with their 2nd driver in order to maximise the performance of the 1st driver as far as race performance goes. It’s also worth noting that Alex does pull of some remarkable and brave overtakes.
All that having been said…Alex is 4th in the driver standings, ahead of all the others except the top 3 of course, so where are these other drivers that people want to see replace Alex? As far as I see it, Alex is actually doing a pretty good job for RB…and hopefully this will only get better as he gets more in sync with this ‘difficult’ car. A car any replacement driver would spend some valuable races getting to know.
Any comparisons with Max should focus on direct comparisons, i.e. Max’s first full year compared with Alex’s first full year.It’s an analytical falsehood to compare a 1 year experience with 5 years experience.
So, I’m with CH and think it’s worth sticking with this promising young driver, even though my main fan loyalty has been with LH for many years I find myself impressed with the studious determination and progress of Alex, which I mainly observe in the live timing stats.
trib4udi (@trib4udi)
31st August 2020, 10:12
analysis of qualifying in all Q2 sessions this year is pointless. They put Max on a compound harder than Albon. Same in Spa: Albon couldn’t get to Q3 on medium so they put him on softs.
I agree with you though, that i can see progress in Albon. He deserves to finish the season. He and Gasly are very capable drivers (definitely a tier higher than eg Gio, Grosjean, Magnussen).
erikje
31st August 2020, 16:50
(@keithedin) you seem to forget the moments where Bottas out qualified Hamilton.
That is not going to happen soon with Albon.
ajpennypacker (@ajpennypacker)
31st August 2020, 4:35
It’s different when your teammate is also driving the most dominant car in F1 history. Bring 0.5s off still means finishing 1-2. For the rest of the field being 0.5s off could mean the difference between 3rd and 12th.
I’m not defending Albon though. I think he has potential, but right now he looks like he needs to go. My guess is that Red Bull needs another experienced driver who is also proven to be fast. Someone who can still drive a difficult car. I’d love it if they brought Seb back. Hulk would be great too
Helmet
31st August 2020, 7:57
I wouldn’t choose Seb to drive a difficult car. I can see a little sense in Hulk (or Perez) in & Albon back with Gasly but it wouldn’t be any better than just letting Albon mature. If I was going to completely Marko it all up: at the end of the year Kyvat out, Hulk in and (assuming Albon hadn’t improved) tell Gasly and Albon 5 races each in the big team 2021 – best performer gets the gig.
Back to this year’s deficit to Merc – it’s been pretty rare that a pitstop pincer seems to have threatened Mercedes and they’d just sacrifice Bottas. Max doesn’t need help defending from the other teams.
Come to think of it – Ver doesn’t seem to mind losing to a competitor, he usually just says it’s boring when he can’t take it to the Mercs (or Ferraris last year)… interestingly, on the other hand, when someone in equal machinery gets the better of him he’s apt to overdo it and put one or both cars into the garage. So stress free & not crashing without direct competition – Redbull are no doubt quite happy with 2nd place this year and Albon has a chance to get on top of the car.
Carlos Medrano (@carlosmedrano)
31st August 2020, 11:42
Bottas is alteast within a tenth of hamilton, albon is literally on average half a second slower. But red bull probably want max to have a slow teammate
Jose Lopes da Silva
31st August 2020, 13:18
I’m glad you’re here. Someone above brought the Kvyat-outperformed-Ricciardo nonsense. Go!
erikje
31st August 2020, 16:52
So you need nonsense master to debunk?
Not going to happen :)
Jose Lopes da Silva
31st August 2020, 17:43
It’s Ricciardo master
Jose Lopes da Silva
31st August 2020, 17:44
And no, Ricciardo did not beat Verstappen.
Kingshark (@kingshark)
30th August 2020, 22:00
Hamilton needs a stronger teammate who can challenge him regularly, for the sake of this dying sport
DonSmee (@david-beau)
31st August 2020, 3:19
The others need to make better cars you mean.
ajpennypacker (@ajpennypacker)
31st August 2020, 4:37
Thay too. But even when Mercedes was equally dominant between 2014-2016 Rosberg kept him honest and even beat him. Bottas is nowhere near Lewis. 2017-2019 at least Seb mounted a bit of challenge. Took several wins. It looked like a battle of sorts. 2020 is looking about as bad as 2002
nickthegreek (@nickthegreek)
31st August 2020, 9:33
yes but that’s not Mercedes’ fault. if I were Mercedes i would keep renewing Bottas indefinitely. the two championships are all they care about, I’m sure in terms of prestige it would be of course better if Bottas finished 2nd in the drivers’ championship too (which I suppose he will)
F1oSaurus (@)
31st August 2020, 10:13
@ajpennypacker Roeberg didn’t beat him. He just had better luck mechanically. Rosberg would hit Hamilton now and then though. Maybe that gave some entertaintment, but that’s hardly racing.
@kingshark
It’s silly to expect team mates to put uyp an interesting fight when at the same team. Mercedes doesnt allow for that anymore after the damage they saw Rosberg do to the team with his foul play.
Just like Bottas was not allowed to attack Hamilton in Spa, Hamilton was not allowed to attack Bottas in Austria. In Red Bull it’s even worse with the team entirely set up around Verstappen and the car designed for Verstappen.
To have an interesting fight for the WDC the main competitors will need to be in different teams.
it’s just too bad that Red Bull and Verstappen can’t just get that car to improve to be able to compete at more than just a handful races. And then Hungary was supposed to be their race and then they get it completely wrong.
Or when Ferrari had the car for the WDC in 2017 and 2018, their driver let it all fall away.
Or in 2019 when the cars were actually all pretty decently matched. Vettel, Leclerc and Verstappen dropped the ball in races like Bahrain, Baku, Canada, Monaco, Hungary, Russia, Japan and Mexico. All races where either a Ferrari or Verstappen should have won, but didn’t. Yes that makes it look boring and easy for Hamilton (and even Bottas), but you can’t blame them for the competition failing so often.
Alex
31st August 2020, 12:41
Correction – Rosberg did beat him.
Jose Lopes da Silva
31st August 2020, 13:19
How did Rosberg win 7 races in a row?
F1oSaurus (@)
31st August 2020, 13:58
Alex, He didn’t. He scored a few points more while Hamilton soffered a huge amount of technical issues.
Jose Lopes bla bla, He didn’t.
GechiChan (@gechichan)
31st August 2020, 14:51
@f1osaurus we can agree that Lewis had an engine blowout in Malaysia which affected him masively, but that was the single extra reliability issue vs Rosberg. So, yeah, 25 points maybe… But what I admire about Nico is that he was always very close in performance to Lewis (at least in that season): they traded blows frequently during Qualy, both won races regularly.
Bottas on the other hand is never this close to Lewis, rarely wins a race and had more bad luck this season (both had blown tires in Silverstone, one finished 11th while the other won). Even if Lewis had more reliability issues, he would still win comfortably against Valteri, which was not the case with Rosberg.
S
31st August 2020, 15:00
@F1osaurus
You sure about that mate?
Rosberg won the final 3 races in 2015 and then took the first 4 races in 2016. Hamilton finished second in every one of those races. They may not be in the same calendar year, but they are consecutive.
Rosberg also got 3 more in a row later in the 2016 season.
But ONLY because of reliability, right? ;)
F1oSaurus (@)
31st August 2020, 15:16
@gechichan and S, Sigh. Thatr’s not in a row. Besides, yes he won the first races of 2016 because of reasons yes:
– Bahrain Hamilton gets rammed of by Bottas.
– China Hamilton couldn’t take part in Q3 due to a technical issue
– Russia Hamilton couldn’t take part in Q3 due to a technical issue
Then we have Europe, Spa (starting from the back of the grid to replace all the broken power unit parts!), Singapore and ultimately Malaysia. There are very few wins were Rosberg won that Hamilton did not have an issue.
The only time Rosberg had an issue was a start system fail in Australia and in Germany. Australia he actually benefited more from than Hamilton since he managed to ram Hamilton off track. Germany was a disaster for Rosberg after starting from pole.
Still, clearly Hamilton suffered many more points lost due to issues compared to Rosberg.
Rosberg wasn’t any closer to Hamilton than Bottas is now. The difference is that Hamilton had to come from the back quite often in those seasons. Lately Hamilton has been having good quality cars and it’s more Bottas who suffers the problems (he had claimed of issues in Q3 for two races he had his tyre blow in Silverstone and perhaps more). Also 2018 it was clear Bottas had a lot of bad luck
S
31st August 2020, 15:33
@f1osaurus
Well, you’ve just shrunk Rosberg’s entire career down to nothing but a few lucky results, then.
His championship victory wasn’t real and it should have been Hamilton’s just because it’s Lewis Hamilton and he’s the best ever.
And Hamilton’s probably never had priority in any race, and has never driven the best car either, right?
He’s so good that he would probably still be the most successful F1 driver ever even if he’d stayed with McLaren, right? Or not even driven an F1 car at all?
F1oSaurus (@)
31st August 2020, 15:42
S how did I do that? I’m just showing that he’s a driver at about the same level as Bottas. They are both good drivers. Rosberg destroyed Schumacher and Bottas destroyed Massa.
But yes that title Rosberg won was only because he got lucky. He was utterly outperformed by Hamilton when they both had working cars over that season.
Not sure what you are contesting though? Ar you claiming Hamilton did not get rammed by Bottas? That he did participate in Q3 in China and Russia? That he did not went through so many power unit parts that he had to start all the way from the back in Spa? etc etc etc
It’s incredibly hard to overtake an identical car. So yes if Hamilton starts behind then P2 is pretty much the best he can hope for.
The rest of your post really shows that you know you lost to be honest. Just try a random new tack after your first throw attempt has been hit out of the park?
S
31st August 2020, 16:29
@f1osaurus
Okay, if Rosberg only got his championship through luck, then let’s talk about how Hamilton won his first championship, shall we?
Look, I’m not contesting anything. This is not a competition – not to me anyway.
I’m just saying the guy with the most points at the end of the championship is the winner – regardless of how that came about. We could argue about the points systems and luck and skill and intra-team politics and whatever other factors make up who gets to hold the trophy at the end of the year, but it still ultimately comes down to who has the most points. Rosberg did in 2016 and making a fuss about all the points Hamilton didn’t get for whatever reason doesn’t change that.
F1 has never been ‘fair’ and never will be. Neither is life, but that’s just the way it is.
F1oSaurus (@)
1st September 2020, 7:22
S, Yes lets talk about that. I don;t think you will want to hear it, but here goes. A Ferrari consultant became the sole steward for the FIA. Unsurpsingly his rulings were always against McLaren and especially Hamilton. Which also cost him lots of points.
With fair stewarding, Hamilton would have wrapped up the WDC well before the last race.
Besides, it would have been hugely unlucky if he lost that WDC in the last race due to a lucky gamble from Toyota not going for that pitstop.
That’s what people tend to forget when they say Hamilton is lucky. He’s actually rarely really lucky. Like in Silverstone. “Oooooh he’s so lucky” , “What because his tyre exploded?”
Kingshark (@kingshark)
4th September 2020, 8:28
@f1osaurus
Why is it that hard for you to admit that Mercedes have the best car?
I mean, if you actually want to watch Hamilton with an inferior car, pick any season from 2009-2013, where he failed to finish in the top 3 of the standings for five consecutive seasons.
F1oSaurus (@)
4th September 2020, 14:24
@kingshark Why is it that hard for you to admit that Mercedes have the best driver?
Sure he’s been in a top 3 car for the last years, but he performs much better in it than Bottas, Vettel, Leclerc and Verstappen.
When he was driving the third or fourth fastest car why would he have to be in the driver top 3? Verstappen wasn’t in the top 3 for 2016, 2017 and 2018 either. Ricciardo managed that though.
The clear point is that Hamilton won the WDC with the second fastest car in 2017 and 2018 and he was WDC by a huge margin in 2019 with a car that was on par with Ferrari.
Kingshark (@kingshark)
4th September 2020, 18:54
@f1osaurus
Alonso finished runner up three times with a car that was no better than the ones Hamilton drove. Kimi finished third in 2012 with an inferior car. Button finished 2nd in 2011 as his teammate. Why was Hamilton incapable of finishing on the championship podium on a single occasion?
I know you desperately want me to change my mind on Hamilton (which is seemingly why you reply to all my comments) but it’s not going to happen. I’ll never rate Hamilton as a GOAT. His performances without the best car from 2009-2013 simply don’t warrant it. If you compare it to what Senna was doing in 1993 or Schumacher from 1996-98, there are levels to this.
Mercedes have won 80% of the races in the hybrid era. No matter how much you want to downplay that team to make Hamilton’s achievements look great, his statpadding while driving for the best team in F1 history isn’t going to change my mind on him. What happened from 2009-2013 cannot he changed. He’s not that great without a super team.
F1oSaurus (@)
5th September 2020, 9:40
@kingshark Dud you are just making stuff up.
AliceD (@aliced)
31st August 2020, 13:23
It is not possible to make faster cars than Mercedes. Even if you do it is only a matter of time before Mercedes poaches your staff and steals your tech. So Mercedes has all the money, all the best personnel on the planet. The best driver, the best fuel. The best of everything. And then they are so proud to beat the others who has hundreds of millions less than they do. Not very fair. Not very sporting.
DonSmee (@david-beau)
31st August 2020, 15:52
So what are you hoping to achieve by giving Hamilton a faster teammate? He had that already with Nico and you all still complained of Mercedes dominance. They will be even more dominant if Max is in the car.
Your true selfish intentions are to see a battle with Lewis against Max at the expense of Mercdedes.
BradB (@bl0rq)
31st August 2020, 21:15
The rule makers need to get out of the way and stop limiting and restricting everything you mean.
Sensord4notbeingafanboi (@peartree)
31st August 2020, 12:36
and merc could throw bottas some bones thlugh any time Bottas happens to win a race, Lewis looks all depressed. as long as hamilton does not sign a new contract bottas has no chance of winning a race.
Robbie (@robbie)
31st August 2020, 14:47
And to think TW had re-signed Nico mid-2016 for two more years of his ‘damage to the team’ that would have seen NR there through 2018, and VB still at Williams.
Edvaldo
30th August 2020, 22:05
Verstappen is really looking like Schumacher this year. His team mate is even getting those same shady strategies almost every weekend.
Today they pitted him for mediums while everyone else went for hards and that cost him a shot at 4th place.
ajpennypacker (@ajpennypacker)
31st August 2020, 4:37
That’s ridiculous., it’s not as if Albon has been anywhere near enough to even challenge Max.
F1oSaurus (@)
31st August 2020, 10:15
@ajpennypacker Yes that exactly the excuse people gave for the behavior against Schumacher’s team mates too. “They don’t care since they are not competitive anyway”. The reason they are not competitive is also in this behavior. Give them also a car they can work with. Not just the #1 driver. Don’t always ruin their strategy to gather some data for the #1 driver.
trib4udi (@trib4udi)
31st August 2020, 10:17
the problem was not the medium tyre.
RBR badly needed their driver in 4th position and close to MAx in 3rd to try an undercut with a 2nd pitstop. Which would force Merc to respond with at least 1 car. How could Albon have been 4th? :
– better qualifying. he failed
– better first lap. he failed. instead of gaining a place, he lost one (!)
It was critical that Albon would be in 4th position soon after SC ending, so RBR improvised:
RB did great on the first pitstop: quick, so he jumped Ocon and was back in 5th. On medium he would have the best chance to pass Ric on track early on. But Albon failed.
So , yes in hindsight putting Albon on hards could possibly have given him 5th (although we don;t know as MAx’ tyres also dropped of), but the aim for RB was never to secure 5th and 3rd. but to have a chance at 2nd, for which they needed Albon to be in 4th quickly.
Carlos Medrano (@carlosmedrano)
31st August 2020, 11:44
Lol no he is looking like vettel in 2015. Had a slow teammate so he basically had an easy 3rd at all races.
Sensord4notbeingafanboi (@peartree)
31st August 2020, 12:37
Bottas strategies are more dodgy, merc only seems to give bottas the right call and make less mistakes whenever Bottas is slow enough not to threaten hamilton.
F1oSaurus (@)
31st August 2020, 15:50
@peartree Which strategy that Bottas got was dodgy? Or even different from what Hamilton got?
You mean the call that they told Hamilton not to go past Bottas when he was extremely slow at the end of Austria race? So much so that it cost Hamilton places. Or are you talking about when Hamilton refused the soft tyre that Bottas hd just accepted and that it turned out to be the right decision?
At Mercedes, the driver behind gets second choice in strategy. So yes potentially that can be the worse one. That’s on Bottas for not being in front then. The time he was in front, Hamilton clearly suffered from the same fate
erikje
31st August 2020, 16:58
“Hello valtteri, this is james”
F1oSaurus (@)
1st September 2020, 7:24
So? Is that a strategy? No, that’s at the end of the season giving the points to the driver who’s got an actually shot at the WDC.
Adam (@rocketpanda)
30th August 2020, 22:06
I think that’s a little unfair of him given Mercedes prioritise him in car development and strategies as much as Red Bull favour Verstappen – as both are among the best in the sport. Bottas probably pushes Hamilton a little more than Albon pushes Verstappen, but given Bottas has won multiple races and has several seasons worth of experience I’d expect that over Albon who has barely one season with one team. It’s a poor comparison, and unfair on Albon.
Also if Red Bull cloned Verstappen and had two of them they’d still not be able to overhaul the Mercedes on pure pace so, not sure where he’s going with this other than trying to manufacture competition with his team and himself where currently there is none.
Gigantor (@kbdavies)
30th August 2020, 22:25
When did Mercedes ever prioritize Lewis in car development? What evidence do you have of this ludicrous claim? Was Mercedes prioritizing Lewis when he arrived in a team built around Rosberg for 4 years, and still beat him?
You are also wrong on the strategy issue. Mercedes usually prioritize Bottas to save him from the undercut from whoever is behind him. In fact, that was the plan today until the safety car put paid to that.
We shouldn’t make stuff up just because we want to propagate an untrue narrative.
If Lewis had ever enjoyed the unquestioned number one status that drivers like Schumacher, Alonso, Vettel, and Verstappen had, the man will be on 8 x WDC, and we’ll be talking about a 9th.
Jim
30th August 2020, 22:58
The fact is HAM approved of BOT being his teammate because he knew he was an average/good driver who had a soft (to put it mildly) personality. No more ROS type A drivers such as ALO.
And he did lose ROS, not exactly one of the F1 greats.
Adam (@rocketpanda)
30th August 2020, 23:00
Lol ludicrous claim? The car’s obviously built around him and his driving style, just like the Red Bull is fairly set up around Verstappen’s driving style, not Albon’s. This isn’t ludicrous it’s common knowledge – the idea that they *wouldn’t* prioritise him in car development is ludicrous. As for strategy when Bottas is ahead of Hamilton Mercedes race him as an opponent, but if its the other way around Bottas rarely gets optimal strategies to beat him. Again this is common knowledge? It makes sense given Hamilton’s obviously got an edge over Bottas and is usually ahead anyway but acting as though he’s not favoured in the team as a multiple world champion and ‘star driver’ is – as you say – ludicrous.
Rhys Lloyd (@justrhysism)
30th August 2020, 23:34
@rocketpanda Yeah Sky interviewed Alvin and he said the car is quite unstable, but it just doesn’t bother Max.
F1oSaurus (@)
31st August 2020, 10:19
@rocketpanda It IS a ludicrous claim. Bottas has not trouble with the car while Albon keep stating the car is undriveable.
The strategy is determined by the driver ahead. Yes in some cases Bottas choose the strategy which is not he best.
Hamilton was not allowed to attack Bottas in Austria. Hamilton has been held back on strategy when he wanted to attack Bottas.
You are just talking nonsense.
That Hamilton had a better strategy in Spain was his own choice. They gave him the same as Bottas and Hamilton had the sens to ask for something else and he was right.
Last time Hamilton actually was allowed to choose another strategy was Silverstone 2019. After that Wolff stated that the driver behind would never be allowed to attack through offset strategy again.
Jose Lopes da Silva
31st August 2020, 13:40
“The car’s obviously built around him and his driving style”. I have here the telemetry and engineering data of Mercedes in my Google Drive account and I can confirm this. There is no doubt that Mercedes has been developing a car for Hamilton’s driving style since 2007.
F1oSaurus (@)
31st August 2020, 15:18
Jose Lopes da Silva You are too funny mate
Jay Menon (@jaymenon10)
31st August 2020, 1:13
Why would you pay a driver 50 millions dollars a year and not prioritise him?
LesCombes82 (@lescombes82)
31st August 2020, 9:11
Because he’s the perfect nr. 2. He’s not strong enough to battle with Hamilton like Rosberg was. But he’s strong enough to keep Verstappen off of Lewis’ back. Valtteri is too “kind”, he doesn’t go against the grain at Mercedes.
He’s the perfect teammate to maximise their strategies, just like Lewis explains in the interview.
He was on the radio yesterday wanting to attack Lewis, but was told that was not in the strategy. He said something like not knowing that was an option they discussed in how the race was planned out by them. And he backed off.
It’s this strategy that gives Mercedes the best chance to maximise the races, gives them the world champion driver and constructors championships. Don’t forget, for Mercedes the constructors championship is the most important one. And to win that, you need both drivers to consistently score the maximum amount of points.
You can’t have 2 drivers going for the championship. We’ve seen countless times how that ends.
Joe Pineapples
31st August 2020, 9:51
I can’t remember exactly either, but it was more like Bottas wanting to use a higher engine mode to attack Hamilton, but the team had planned that it would be only used (by EITHER driver) to defend against possible slip-streaming by another team. Regardless, had they made it available to Bottas, it would also have been available to Hamilton, cancelling the effect and only serving to punish both engines more.
F1oSaurus (@)
31st August 2020, 10:22
@lescombes82
They do have 2 drivers going for the champpionship, but Hamiltion is just a tad better. Add some small mistakes from Bottas costing him points and we are where we are.
Bottas is lucky the car is so far ahead because if he was 5 tenths down from Hamilton from P3 he’d be around P8 or P9 after Q3. Now he only drops back to P2.
F1oSaurus (@)
31st August 2020, 15:28
@jaymenon10 That’s a good question yes. Why do they try so desperately to keep the fight fair?
I think the answer is the utter mess that started with Rosberg. If the team is seen to prioritse either of the dirvers that gives tension. So Wolff is absolutely strict on rooting any of that out.
The evidence that they are not prioritizing Hamilton is for instance Austria. They could have let Hamilton in front of Bottas. That would have benefited the team and Bottas would still take the win. Or a race like Hungary 2017 where they allowed Hamilton to go past Bottas and when he didn;t maneg to overtake they let Hamilton give the position back to Bottas with Verstappen immediately behind Bottas.
Or see how they will not allow Hamilton to attack Bottas on strategy anymore after Silverstone 2019. There they allowed Hamilton an offset strategy to Bottas. Hamilton effectively went for one stop less and that won him the race and Bottas was upset even though he was the one who chose his strategy (he was in the lead and had first pick). To prevent sour faces, Toto Wolff banned that practice. Hamilton has been stuck behind Bottas on several occasions because of that.
There is just no way they can fight for position anymore.
Which in fact is bad for the team as a whole. They both need to focus way to much on Q3 when for the real competition (Red Bull) there is no reason to put so much focus on Q3. Which results in lower race pace and that actually endangers the race result since Verstappen can focus almost 100% on race setup. So you often see that Red Bull is faster during the race. Especially when Bottas is in front of Hamilton.
If Bottas would put some more focus on race pace in his setup he might be able to keep at least P2 from Verstappen more often. But then he needs to qualify in front of Hamilton because otherwise he will never win the race. Catch 22
Jay Menon (@jaymenon10)
1st September 2020, 0:25
@f1osaurus, based on your comments here, your allegiance is quite clear, and there is no issue with that.
Maybe Mercedes don’t care who wins and frankly, I don’t care either. The point I was trying to make was that when you invest the kind of money Mercedes have invested in Lewis, you’d probably want him winning.
F1oSaurus (@)
1st September 2020, 7:14
@jaymenon10 Yes, but the real point is that Mercedes is not showing that what you claim they would do at all. They give Bottas ample opportunity to compete and when he’s in front he gets just as much protection from the team against attack as Hamilton does when he’s in front.
They pay Hamilton for his feedback to help develop the car. That’s probably the biggest difference between him and Verstappen so far. Plus they expect him to be in the lead more often than not. Both of those he does.
They want Bottas to be able to compete because otherwise it becomes like a Rosberg situation where he starts ramming Hamilton on purpose out of pure desperation.
Patrick (@anunaki)
31st August 2020, 11:45
and then this
nice hand sir
F1oSaurus (@)
31st August 2020, 15:51
@anunaki It’s true though.
Patrick (@anunaki)
31st August 2020, 17:04
The truth is most of the time confused with peoples opinion or interpretation but in this case it’s mostly a what-if scenario so it holds no value at all.
F1oSaurus (@)
1st September 2020, 7:18
@anunaki Well the Schumacher and Alonso #1 situation has been proven by facts. Even up to the point that drivers came out and saying that they couldn’t see their own telemetry when they were faster than Schumacher or that McLaren was investigated for illegal team orders for the extent to which they were helping Alonso win in Monaco.
But also Red Bull has clearly stated that the team would be completely built around Verstappen. What do you think that means?
So yes if you go against that, it’s going to be an ostrich like reaction creating an opinion based on lack of insight. Indeed those hold no value at all
Sensord4notbeingafanboi (@peartree)
31st August 2020, 12:44
@kbdavies @f1osaurus take some screenshots of @rocketpanda and @jaymenon10 comments and read them again in 5 years time, you might understand f1 better by then. It is not that Lewis isn’t as good as he is but as Nigel Mansell puts it “there hasn’t been another driver with as much support as Lewis” source peterwindsor youtube.
Adam (@rocketpanda)
31st August 2020, 13:11
I don’t get how saying Hamilton is prioritised by Mercedes is a ludicrous claim when the guy can shrug at a contract and have his employer wait for him while his team-mate can only ever get a 1 year extension. Like the guy’s won multiple championships and is arguably one of the best in the sport ever, so why wouldn’t you build the car to maximise his skills? Why wouldn’t you give him 100% optimal strategies? None of this is ludicrous, it’s obvious. Bottas ends up with the lion’s share of mistakes, of failures, of dodgy strategies and an inability to fight his team-mate, usually ending up with being told to move.
Either way my issue was comparing Bottas – a proven race winner with multiple seasons under his belt to Albon, who’s not even done a full season with one team yet and has a fraction of the experience. This coming from the guy that’s punted him off the track whenever he was in shot of a podium is ‘ludicrous’.
F1oSaurus (@)
31st August 2020, 13:59
@rocketpanda Because it’s clearly not true. Merceds don’t care who becomes WDC.
Dave (@davewillisporter)
1st September 2020, 15:22
Seems people are a bit confused about how an F1 car is produced. It is not designed with driver in mind. It is designed to be the fastest car possible. It is then produced and the driver drives it and it is fine-tuned to each drivers liking. In terms of developing the car during a season a driver can steer the team in one direction or another, but the car is designed to be as fast as possible regardless of who drives it. Adrian Newey has produced some almost impossible to drive cars, but if a driver could handle it, it was a fast car. This Redbull seems to be one of those. It wasn’t designed for Max, just Max has the ability to drive it. Same with Merc. They design and produced the fastest car they could come up with. They didn’t sit with Lewis and an etch a sketch!
F1oSaurus (@)
1st September 2020, 15:54
@davewillisporter You are quite wrong there.
It actually makes no sense at all. Everybody has their preferences. Rosberg and Hamilton even use different brake material at some point.
How many times have we heard that the car doesn’t suite a certain driver?
Come on man
Gigantor (@kbdavies)
31st August 2020, 13:21
So, i should take a Nigel Mansell quote that buttresses your opinion over the truth?
So, how about you read this article from Ross Brawn who is obviously more of an expert on Lewis and the inside situation at Mercedes Benz than Nigel Mansell could ever be.
https://theparcferme.com/brawn-no-1-status-for-lewis/
I think you should take a screen shot of my comment and revisit it in 10yrs when Lewis will have retired and your smudged glasses will have hopefully been cleared.
Dave (@davewillisporter)
1st September 2020, 16:15
@f1osaurus No, I’m quite right! I’ve read and listened to enough stuff on Adrian Newey, Ross Brawn, Gordon Murray and the rest to know I’m right. The car gets designed to be as fast as possible. End of. Once it’s built it may have characteristics which suit or not suit a driver. That’s when each car’s engineers tune it to suit each driver. That is literally why there are two engineering teams but one design team. Stuff like brake pad material has nothing to do with car design. Adrian Newey was asked whether he gave any regard to mechanics, engineers or drivers when he designs a car. His answer an emphatic NO! So this Redbull has not been designed around Max and this Merc has not been designed around Lewis. What happens during the season is the team tries to tune the car to both drivers and if one driver is struggling they will look at updates that sort the issue out. At the moment the Redbull is being tuned towards Albon because Max can drive anything. In the past Merc have tuned the car for Lewis’s unique braking feel by changing brake pads. They didn’t change Rosbergs. Neither car was designed for either driver. That’s how it works ok?
F1oSaurus (@)
1st September 2020, 16:25
@davewillisporter No, you are quite wrong.
Dave (@davewillisporter)
1st September 2020, 19:12
@f1osaurus You keep saying that but you don’t give any evidence of your opinion. You might as well say the moon is made of cheese. I’m telling you what designers do based on what I’ve understood from books and interviews. Actual knowledge. Not just a comment a commentator or pundit has made that you have picked up on. So if you want to carry on your silly little exchange then no you’re wrong!
F1oSaurus (@)
2nd September 2020, 19:23
@davewillisporter Ehm I actually gave evidence. There are plenty of instances where drivers said the car doesn’t suit their style. Actual feedback from actual drivers.
Even the brake material was different between Hamilton and Rosberg. Why would Mercedes go through that trouble if not driver preference is what makes them fastest?
Alex
31st August 2020, 12:46
I think what Lewis is forgetting here is that Max doesn’t necessarily need a teammate to push him – the Mercedes team are already doing that.
The reason Hamilton thinks Verstappen needs a team-mate to push him comes from the unique mind-set of driving the dominant Mercedes car for so long, as no other team has a serious chance of challenging, meaning that the only credible challenge can come from your team-mate. I think what Lewis is forgetting here is that Max doesn’t necessarily need a teammate to push him – the Mercedes team are already doing that.
The reason Hamilton thinks Verstappen needs a team-mate to push him comes from the unique mind-set of driving the dominant Mercedes car for so long, as no other team has a serious chance of challenging, meaning that the only credible challenge can come from your team-mate.
F1oSaurus (@)
31st August 2020, 15:35
The point is that having a friendly car behind Verstappen means that they can play with strategy more to attack Mercedes.
Like Ferrari used Raikkonen almost every race to take/fake an undercut. They would stop him early to force Mercedes to also take at least an early stop with one of their cars. Which then meant that one Mercedes would be away from Vettel. It didn’t work that often but still, sometimes it did. Vettel did get in front of Bottas or did win races even. Raikkonen’s race would be ruined of course, but Ferrari didn’t care.
They need a pawn like that at Red Bull too. Or at least the threat of that car being there so Mercedes can’t take a free pitstop.
melanos
30th August 2020, 22:18
LH:
2011, anyone?
Hayden
30th August 2020, 22:36
Think he is refering to Heikki Kovalainen in 2008 and 2009
Kurik
30th August 2020, 22:38
Nitpicking much?
Gigantor (@kbdavies)
30th August 2020, 22:41
But he is right – even taking 2011 into account, he was ahead of Jenson most of the time. With that being his so called “worst” year in Formula One, he still equalled his teammate on race wins (3-3), and outqualified him (13-6).
In fact, i think Lewis had the only non RBR pole that entire season.
Zann (@zann)
30th August 2020, 22:42
“I’ve experienced it many years ago”
and no he wasn’t talking about 2007 either was he. Tho he generally had about .15 over Jenson, similar to what he’s had over Rosberg and Bottas.
RedEaredRabbit (@redearedrabbit)
30th August 2020, 22:36
Lewis making mischief, so don’t read too much into it. Red Bull has always been a graveyard for whomever they deem their number two driver. It’s not Albon’s fault. Max is better, so RB put all of their focus into him and don’t give a crap about anyone else. Albon, Webber, Ricciardo, Gasly…. Same as it ever was.
Most one-sided garage since Michael and Rubens.
Kringle
30th August 2020, 22:41
This, Max needs a team that can focus on two cars instead of one. The drivers are fine.
Tom
30th August 2020, 22:54
I disagree slightly there. RedBull have a clear 1-2 driver line up but Vettel and Webber were close and often traded poles and wins. Verstappen and Ricciardo were also close in terms of pace and results.
Albon has to take the blame as he’s just not performing to the required level. That RedBull should be starting and finishing 4th every race but he never does. His race pace is always way off Verstappen and his single lap pace is dreadful. He’s putting in some overtakes which seem impressive but in reality are over the top and very risky. He’s fighting against the mid field in the second best car so of courses he’s able to overtake.
Today he was again pathetic. He got a safety car to close back in and still finished way behind Verstappen. Hamilton is 100% right.
James Bond (@jamesbond)
30th August 2020, 23:17
Fully agree with you.
F1oSaurus (@)
31st August 2020, 10:26
Only in 2009 and 2010. After that clearly Webber was demoted to #2 driver and he never got close to Vettel again. They never fixed the issues Webber had with KERS so he was practically without KERS for almost all races apart from the first few laps sometimes.
Just like in Spain, the gave Albon the most ridiculous strategy of the entire field. The only explanation you can think of for this is information gathering for Verstappen’s strategy. They use Albon as a sacrificial lamb or a pawn to test the strategy for Verstappen. So yeah that costs Albon a lot. Otherwise he would have finished right around where Ricciardo ended up.
Matn
31st August 2020, 11:30
The elephant in the room which get’s overlooked in this debate is the gap Ricciardo had to Verstappen.
People keep on talking about how close they where on the grid and on track, but that was 2018…. the competition behind Mercedes is much much closer than it was the years before.
The gap Ricciardo had to Verstappen was 0.313 in 2017 while it was 0.433s in 2018, sure Ricciardo was often right behind Verstappen on the grid…but we much not forget RBR was well ahead of the F1.5 class. Spain is a good example…. behind the top 3 teams there was an 0.8 sec gap in 2018, in 2020 that gap was just 0.19 sec.
Considering the average gap between Ricciardo and Verstappen, Dan would have qualified way further down the grid and would race in traffic rather than besides Verstappen let alone fighting Mercedes.
People should notcie the gap between two team mated, in that context, what would Perez of Hulkenberg bring to the table…both slower than Ricciardo which brings them aweful close to where Albon and Gasly are….
These drivers aren’t poor, it’s Verstappen that’s extraordinairy…he showed it against Ricciardo, but a certain category of ‘fans’ prefer blaming the team than accept that gap between Max and Dan was always there.
F1oSaurus (@)
1st September 2020, 7:44
Average lap time difference are usually distorted by (a few) outliers. You should look at the mean and then you see that there was not much difference between them usually. In 2018 it was .13s
yloops
1st September 2020, 7:54
Don’t you dare come out with that he showed it against Riccardo bonesense. Look at the the stats.
Riccardo outperformed him 2 seasons to 1 and in the season that Max outpointed him (the last) he had absolutely terrible reliability.
Dan wasn’t just competitive, he beat Max Verstappen handedly. Check for yourself.
Ant
30th August 2020, 22:44
Says the driver who has spun Verstappen’s team mate out of two podium finishes recently…
Carl
30th August 2020, 23:14
Yeah, it seems that has been swept under the rug as if it never happened.
Maybe Max isn’t doing anything to Albon he couldn’t do to others.
VER basically matched BOT’s time in qualy this weekend and BOT isn’t chopped liver and in a superior car.
JohnEver
31st August 2020, 8:22
I think the difference here is that BOT can keep up (enough) with HAM.
ALB is too far away from VER, and therefore never in the pit-windows op the Mercedes.
Even if RBR is using a 1-2 driver-setup, ALB is useless, because he is not close enough
Rott
31st August 2020, 0:42
Well you can’t blame Lewis for Albon’s mistakes.
Nice try.
⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
w0o0dy (@w0o0dy)
31st August 2020, 8:27
No but we shouldn’t ignore the fact that Hamilton wouldn’t have fucjed up those situations if he really felt he needed the points to become wdc again.
Dave
30th August 2020, 22:49
Laughable. It’s OK for HAM to have an hand picked, average driver for a teammate but not VER. Truth be told, it’s obvious by such remarks HAM doesn’t like VER getting accolades for his solid performances this year.
VER is driver of the year up until this point. HAM knows that to be beating an average teammate while having the best car by far isn’t going to give him the recognition his huge ego needs to be happy.
He should be grateful VER isn’t his teammate – it’s obvious Max is vastly superior to BOT and would put him through the meat grinder, far surpassing anything he experienced from ROS, who beat him once.
Edvaldo
30th August 2020, 22:56
And Verstappen is racing against who again? A guy who can’t even qualify in 4th place with the 2nd best car?
The only reason Verstappen gets recognition is because he is the only getting close to the Mercedes pair, not because he has been driving like a God or something like that. He is the closest challenger.
And you’re completely wrong if you think this is enough for Verstappen to be satisfied. “Be highly regarded by his pals” while Hamilton racks up championships. lol
Rott
31st August 2020, 0:45
Lol, troll in the lose.
Merc picked bottas, who on average is about a tenth plus or minus on Lewis.
Bottas has won races.
Now who was the last that did all that to max, yeah Daniel almost had him in spa. Put Alonso in that Redbull and he will show how ordinary max is.
w0o0dy (@w0o0dy)
31st August 2020, 8:30
Right… Average. Ok, that shows exactly how much you understand of F1. No point in arguing with someone that ignorant.
w0o0dy (@w0o0dy)
31st August 2020, 8:31
Everyone and his mother knows Max would be better than Bottas in the 2nd Mercedes.
petebaldwin (@)
31st August 2020, 12:29
Thanks for the disclaimer on your post. Not sure it was needed but I guess it’ll help some who wouldn’t notice what you’re doing.
Dave (@davewillisporter)
1st September 2020, 15:41
Bottas handpicked? The team were caught out by Rosberg suddenly retiring and Bottas was managed by Toto who made a deal with Williams to release him. The reason he is only given 1 year contracts is because they are not sure how he will perform. All the time he delivers solid results and helps the team win the Constructors championship they extend his contract another year. If he dropped off and they lost the constructors, he’d be out. That is the reason George Russell is not at the team yet. So yes, he was handpicked, but by Toto not Lewis. Lewis has never asked for no 1 status and has never been at a team where he was clear number one. The fact that halfway through a season he leads for the title makes him number one. He doesn’t start the season as number one. That is just the facts. Do Merc have a higher opinion of Lewis over Bottas? Yeah probably. He’s won 6 WDCs! They don’t give him better equipment, different parts or better strategies like Schumi or Alonso had. Renault even had a team-mate crash to allow Alonso a win. Lewis’s ability to save tires allows him flexibility in the second half of races where Bottas has to stop when he does, or doesn’t push back and try and extend. I know there will always be tin hats out there but again, facts. Rosberg won the WDC in 2016. Lewis is not number one!
Rick (@wickedwicktheweird)
30th August 2020, 22:59
He does have a point of you look at the races, Albon is usually nowhere near Max, Valteri is generally closer to Lewis. In qualifying the gap between Lewis and Valteri was pretty much the same as the gap between Max and Albon. The difference is that the Mercedes is so dominant that Valteri can afford to lose half a second and still qualify directly behind is teammate, unlike Albon.
w0o0dy (@w0o0dy)
31st August 2020, 8:33
If Bottas came close to Lewis in races… Don’t you think he would be 2nd in the wdc? Who is splitting the Mercedes pair regularly?
F1oSaurus (@)
31st August 2020, 10:29
@w0o0dy Isn’t that exactly the point he’s making? If Bottas has even a slightly poor bad (or starts on the wrong side) then he loses positions too. That costs points. Albos is already many places down from Verstappen at the start because the field is much closer form Verstappen down.
Dennis
31st August 2020, 10:32
Actually he is trying to make the point that the RedBull car is just as good as the Mercedes and the reason the Mercs are beating the RedBulls is that Mercs have more strategy options since there are two cars while usually redbull have one car at the frnt. This was all about downplaying the Mercedes car advantage and not at all the quality of Alex’s driving.
David BR (@david-br)
30th August 2020, 23:12
I think the headline is very misleading. Hamilton says:
The headline implies that he said Verstappen needs another team mate who would be stronger than Albon, which is precisely how everyone above had read it. However, his comment can just as easily be read as implying that Albon needs to improve, not that he needs to be replaced.
Ryan
30th August 2020, 23:27
You are right it’s misleading watch the sky interview he says it different than the Racefans site headline
Anon A. Mouse
31st August 2020, 2:06
Yeah the headline is knowingly disingenuous given how people choose to feel about what Hamilton says. Naturally people read only the headline and jump straight to the comments without understanding the subject they’re commenting on.
bob (@riptide)
31st August 2020, 8:07
With the covid bubble in effect all you really need to do is watch the team interviews, pen interviews, and qually/race top 3 interviews (basically all available for free) and you’ve got everything the drivers have said straight from the horses mouth.
In this case it was basically that if the second RB driver was in the mix RB could play around with strategy and make the battle at the front more interesting. Something Horner himself said in the past. In general with a one stop Max has limited strategic options to play with.
Steven (@modtl)
30th August 2020, 23:16
I’d love to see another British driver in the top teams challenging Lewis. Not sure if there’s British drivers in Red Bull’s driver academy but how much longer are George and Lando under contract?
CC
30th August 2020, 23:38
So you want Red Bull to replace an Asian driver with a British driver?
C’mon, #WeRaceAsOne.
christopher (@xpucksterx)
31st August 2020, 7:00
I didn’t bother to read the article, because I watched the actual interview. Lewis did not say “Max needs a stronger teammate”. The headline is completely misleading.
Poor journalism – but typical!
Rott
31st August 2020, 0:41
Why challenge Lewis???
He sent Fernando into a retirement early in 2008, saw button fade away and nico rosberg ran for his life.
Now Bottas is being served.
Put max in there, Lewis will destroy him based on his years of showings and not just speculation like how you dummies bigging and hyping up a totally unproven Vestrappen with a challenging team mate.
W. Heijnen
31st August 2020, 1:40
you are way of the mark here. It is obvious here you are a big Lewis fan and that’s ok, but to say that Lewis will destroy Max , can only be seen when they are team mates! Did you remember the battle between them at the last year’s Brazil gp?Maybe to rethink again and I would love to see close battles between all drivers especially at the front.It is downright boring for now Mercedes not really being chalanged
w0o0dy (@w0o0dy)
31st August 2020, 8:34
Go away Rott, You’re drunk.
Josh (@canadianjosh)
31st August 2020, 16:30
Verstappen isn’t proven? Come on Rottweiler, I know your smarter than that.
Dave (@davewillisporter)
1st September 2020, 15:56
Max has never had the pressure of fighting down to the last corner of the last race for a WDC, so he is right. He is not proven in that sense. They way Max handles himself though, I’d speculate he would respond quite well. I suspect what would happen is both he and Hamilton would trade poles and wins. I’d give it to Lewis in the end though because 11 of his 14 seasons he’s fought for the WDC and you can’t beat that experience. Just look at what happened to Vettel 2017 to 2018. Cracked under pressure. Hamilton was cool all the way. Sadly though the only way you’re going to see 2 top drivers at Merc is if they lose the constructors championship. Then they’ll make a change. The other is bringing George Russell in towards the end of Lewis’s contract to learn from the best. He is very quick but hasn’t had the wheel to wheel experience because there’s no-one to fight where he runs. Regardless of any of this, Lewis will likely be 8 times WDC and hold the record number of wins above 100 by the end of 2021 and if Merc do as good a job at the new regs as they did in 2014 and 2017, he may even retire on 10. Argue who’s the best all you want but those records will be hard to beat even for Max.
James Blutto (@blutto)
31st August 2020, 5:02
Or maybe Lewis could join George in Williams. Make it an all British affair. That would be lovely.
DonSmee (@david-beau)
31st August 2020, 15:58
We had the Button Whitmash love-in where Lewis was cast aside as “Not-British-enough” and attacked daily by the British media. For another Briyish driver to go alongside? No, thank you.
F1oSaurus (@)
31st August 2020, 16:11
@david-beau +1
I’d love to see Russell go to Mercedes though. I wouldn’t be surprised if Russell could continue the work Hamilton has been doing in destroying the rest of the field. Especially if he could still learn from Hamilton for one or two seasons.
Ryan
30th August 2020, 23:30
Your deliberately posting a bait headline just to trigger the usual trolls shame on you Keith and Racefans.
DonSmee (@david-beau)
31st August 2020, 3:22
They got bills to pay!
christopher (@xpucksterx)
31st August 2020, 7:01
I completely agree!!!!!!!!!!
Josh (@canadianjosh)
31st August 2020, 16:33
Lol who cares, it makes for entertaining back and forth posts, lighten up Ryan. It’s all good fun.
NewVerstappenFan (@jureo)
30th August 2020, 23:33
Lol, I think Lewis needs a stronger teammate. I hear Seb is avaliable.
And even better would be someone actually fast like Verstappen. That would give us a fight for P1.
Robbie (@robbie)
31st August 2020, 6:01
@jureo That would be incredibly electric. Won’t happen but also just for fun, imagine Max in season seven of a run with a dominant car that fits him like a glove.
bob (@riptide)
31st August 2020, 8:19
Yea, he needs a Leclerc or Max alongside him. Odd that with Bottas on a yearly contract both Leclerc and Max decided to sign long term contracts elsewhere. And if Max had signed to Mercedes when he had the chance he would be in his forth season with Mercedes now. And you would probably be on here posting that Ham needs a stronger teammate. lol.
NewVerstappenFan (@jureo)
31st August 2020, 10:48
Bottas is on yearly contract, because if he gets slightly worse they will need to react. He is at the perfect position, fast but not fast enough to threaten Lewis. An Awesome #2.
But if they need more, they might not get it from him.
bob (@riptide)
31st August 2020, 13:27
Thats my point. Why lock yourself away on a long term contract somewhere else when the Mercedes No2 is just one bad run away from getting the boot? Unless of course Max or LeClerc has a get out of jail free card in their contract if a spot at Mercedes comes up.
F1oSaurus (@)
31st August 2020, 10:31
@jureo Stronger teammate! Vettel is not stronger than Bottas is though.
NewVerstappenFan (@jureo)
31st August 2020, 10:48
In a great car like Mercedes, I think Vettel would be spectacular. Certainly not half a second from Lewis.
F1oSaurus (@)
31st August 2020, 13:56
@jureo Well he showed that even in a great car like he had in 2017 and 2018, he keeps blundering when he’s put under even the tiniest bit of pressure. So I don’t hold your beliefs that Vettel will perform when he goes against arguably the best driver on the current grid.
He couldn’t even beat Leclerc in 2019. They had a pretty good car too for many races then as well.
Neil (@neilosjames)
31st August 2020, 0:01
Could read that many ways… that Verstappen needs a stronger team-mate, or Red Bull need to operate as a proper two-car team.
I get a very strong feeling the team is entirely focused and built around Verstappen, far more so than any other team on the grid. Probably to the same extent that McLaren were Fernando+1, and for many years Ferrari were Michael+1, Red Bull are Max+1.
Look at Mercedes – they always turn up with a top-drawer sub-team on either side of the garage and they, without fail, field two fully competitive, finely set-up cars. Hamilton is better than Bottas, but the gaps tend to be very small. Whereas – again, just me looking on – it seems like whoever is on the other side of the Red Bull garage is an Irvine-style afterthought, three tenths down before they’ve even got into the car.
Robbie (@robbie)
31st August 2020, 5:57
@neilosjames I couldn’t disagree more strongly with your strong feeling. But I’m sure Max would be flattered you’ve categorized him with FA, and MS already.
So let’s see, folks love to state DR beat Max 2 out of 3 seasons, so obviously there’s no way Max had a designer car a few years ago, yet now Max has favouritism akin to MS whose teammates were actually under contract to not compete? Already? In a few short years? Wow. I can’t believe we haven’t heard a peep about that from a single driver or commentator or anyone within F1. What a well kept secret.
But yeah, look at Mercedes. Why doesn’t RBR just do it like that? What’s the matter with them? The nerve of them not dominating for seven seasons on the trot like Mercedes has. Forget that FA bested his teammates, MS bested his contracted subservients, and LH bests VB, and if only by a smaller margin though, that therefore makes Max/RBR horrible beings, with their desperate model and the set-in-stone three tenths gap they engineer into his teammate’s cars, teammates who are an afterthought to make Max look good.
Ya that all sounds rational. Especially for a team without a WDC level car. Let’s take one of our non-Championship level cars, and sacrifice it. Just for Max’s ego, because it sure won’t be for the cups. Yup, we’re going to take all that Red Bull money, and that F1 prize money, and that’s what we’re gonna do. That’s what everyone from top to bottom is on board with doing.
Your strong feeling has weak roots.
JohnH (@johnrkh)
31st August 2020, 9:34
@robbie
Um no robbie it’s more like RB thinking they could do a Ferrari/Schumacher and it’s failed because the driver/car combination is not as good. The structure within the team is not as good there appears to be friction rather than an atmosphere of camaraderie. RB let one of the top drivers walk out the door and trashed three other potentially good team mates yet you can see nothing wrong with the RB management or internal politics…silly of me course you can’t.
Now as far as I’m concerned it’s up to the other teams to catch up, not whinge and complain about Merc being better than them.
F1oSaurus (@)
31st August 2020, 10:33
@robbie We can always count on you to post the dumbest reply in the thread. Kudos!
Search
31st August 2020, 11:59
As opposed to your “intelligent” dribble, you mean?
petebaldwin (@)
31st August 2020, 12:36
@f1osaurus – Robbie’s one of the better posters on here but I guess he talks like an adult rather than posting childish troll comments so I guess they go over your head?
F1oSaurus (@)
31st August 2020, 14:02
@petebaldwin Lol I guess you would say that because you subscribe to his daft ideas of Hamilton bashing
Neil (@neilosjames)
31st August 2020, 14:36
@robbie you could just reply to the actual words in the post, rather than make a series of over-the-top assumptions (or just made up stuff) to argue with. Like contracts or engineered deficits, neither of which exist or were implied to exist.
I doubt Verstappen would care whether a poster on Racefans put him on Schumacher-Alonso level, but I have no doubt he’ll be there one day. He’s probably there now, so far as actual ability, talent and performance is concerned, which is why the team is built and focused around him. Not ‘to make Max look good’, but because Max is that good.
Robbie (@robbie)
31st August 2020, 15:22
@neilosjames I was indeed replying to your implying RBR need to operate as a proper two-car team. I indicated that I think they do. You strongly argued they’re as bad as MS/Ferrari in terms of their skewing towards Max, which is ridiculous to suggest, and now you seem to be saying you wouldn’t blame them, for Max is that good. So even though you claim Mercedes doesn’t do this, which is the better way to go, you erroneously claim RBR does, AA is an afterthought, and then claim they are right to, even though they don’t actually do that. Seems clear enough to me.
Neil (@neilosjames)
31st August 2020, 17:23
@robbie I didn’t argue anything of the sort, that was your incorrect assumption. If you go back and read my post, I argued that they operated as an obvious ‘Driver+1’ team, where their primary driver is very clearly their primary concern. There are multiple degrees to which they could do that, all the way from enforcing #2 status to simply shaping development, personnel and strategy around one driver… hence why I provided two different examples – McLaren’s Alonso team, and the far more extreme Ferrari Schumacher team. Or Vettel at Red Bull, or Hamilton/Kovalainen at McLaren. Different levels, but it’s just as obvious that one driver is the focus.
Or at least, obvious to my eyes. Different eyes may see the same thing and draw different conclusions, like we clearly do.
And no, I don’t blame them for it. There’s no single ‘right’ way to run an F1 team – if Red Bull believe focusing on Max represents their best chance of winning, fair play to them. It worked with Vettel. I don’t like it, but it’s not ‘wrong’.
Robbie (@robbie)
31st August 2020, 18:07
@neilosjames That’s at least a more reasonable argument than saying what you initially did which was that Max has more focus on him than any other driver has on their team, which is debatable enough, and also saying it is at the level of FA and MS and their treatment in their WDC cars which of course is also debatable.
I’m sure LH gets a vast amount of attention, as will CL be getting since Ferrari are the most blatant at the one-rooster concept.
For me I don’t think AA is getting secondary treatment at all. He may be driving a car that has Max’s tendencies in mind, but as a non-WDC level team/car right now, they want to advance the car in any way shape or form they can including having AA up there higher on the grid. They’ve said they need and want that, Max has said it, LH has now said it, LH has said it of VB in recent years too. They want their teammates up with them. That doesn’t happen doing it the MS/Ferrari way, especially with a non-Championship car.
Bottom line for me…it only appears like it’s all about Max because Max is phenomenal, he’s also the team veteran, and AA is a relative rookie. Is it a lot about Max? Sure. But they have no interest in doing anything but helping AA in every way they can too. There is simply no way he is an afterthought.
JohnH (@johnrkh)
1st September 2020, 0:17
@neilosjames We must all worship at the alter of Verstappen or incur the wrath of @robbie :))
F1oSaurus (@)
1st September 2020, 7:49
@robbie
You did what?
Horner: “We will build the team entirely around Verstappen”
Robbie: “Eeeehm I dun think that Red Bull is giving their #2 driver secondary treatment”
Robbie (@robbie)
1st September 2020, 14:33
@johnrkh lol and don’t you forget it!
@f1osaurus There’s the rub though, right? If it weren’t for folks like you literally inventing quotes to support a position, I wouldn’t have to come in and set the record straight. But hey, I get it, Max is the only threat to LH for the foreseeable future so no code of ethics nor accuracy with attributing quotes need apply. Anything to try to discredit Max, Horner, Marko, RBR, Robbie will do. Operative word being ‘try.’
F1oSaurus (@)
1st September 2020, 15:51
@robbie Well we have seen clearly demonstrated again that you are the one making stuff up.
Robbie (@robbie)
1st September 2020, 16:45
@f1osaurus Except that I’m not the one resorting to faking quotes though, right?
F1oSaurus (@)
1st September 2020, 16:50
@robbie Well, the problem is that you are incapable of understanding texts. So unfortunately you don’t even understand that you’re talking nonsense.
Robbie (@robbie)
1st September 2020, 17:20
@f1osaurus Yeah keep deflecting from your own resorting to faking quotes.
F1oSaurus (@)
2nd September 2020, 19:20
@robbie Yes keep pretending that everybody understands things incorrectly but you.
Seriously though. Did you finish any type of school?
Tristan (@skipgamer)
31st August 2020, 0:16
It’s a shame Red Bull aren’t open to taking to Vettel back, I think he would make a perfect pairing for Verstappen, even just for a year or two. Horner knows the value of having two drivers that push each other so I’m surprised it’s not on the table.
JohnH (@johnrkh)
31st August 2020, 1:36
@skipgamer Two obstacles to that in my opinion Marko & Vertappen snr. Back when it was announced that the team would be build around Verstappen his hard core fans just ignored the fact that it would mean RB would become a one driver team with the bulk of resources going to him while other driver is there only to act in a support role never to challenge the No1. Now after three yrs they still can’t/won’t see the issue with such an approach.
Robbie (@robbie)
31st August 2020, 5:24
@johnrkh Such a sad twisting of reality to suit your bitter and baseless attacks. You’re just embarrassing yourself.
JohnH (@johnrkh)
31st August 2020, 8:56
Hardly an attack @robbie just my thoughts from the evidence before me. The fact that a couple of die hard Verstappen fans get so rabid over a simple statement is neither here nor there for me. If I were you I’d be thankful for the missteps from Merc this yr allowing Verstappen/RB the win and 2nd place.
Jose Lopes da Silva
31st August 2020, 16:51
Clearly Jos Verstappen has compromising pictures of Dietrich Mateschitz and Helmut Marko and that’s why he can say which drivers Red Bull can hire or not.
Aapje (@aapje)
31st August 2020, 9:11
@skipgamer
I don’t think that Vettel can deal with having a faster or equal team mate. He starts playing dirty tricks to win. We’ve seen with Leclerc what happens if the other driver doesn’t let themselves be bullied like that. Crashes, internal team conflict and team mates holding each other back.
Max is not also going to let himself be bullied.
baasbas
31st August 2020, 13:00
I’m intrigued by that thought for some time now. But in reality: VET is getting a kicking by LEC, while he had the upper hand on experience with the car. I’d rate VER slightly higher than LEC. It seems the RB is a bit of a dog to drive. What would happen if VET joined VER, where he doesn’t have advantage of experience with the (difficult) car? I’d think it would be a wipe out. Most likely ALB would do better. It’s not like VET seems a big improvement on race craft as well over ALB…
Rott
31st August 2020, 0:38
Exactly.
Nice bigging up Redbull’s golden child, but this team needs a competitive team mate for Max. Totally unchallenged and it’s very bad and killing the sport as usual from the Redbull.
Blind media and teenage girls(‘max fans) think max is doing great, when there is essentially no reference.
Jose Lopes da Silva
31st August 2020, 16:53
Nice bigging up Ferrari’s golden child, but this team needs a competitive team mate for Michael Schumacher. Totally unchallenged and it’s very bad and killing the sport as usual from the Ferrari.
Blind media and teenage girls (Tiffosi) think Michael Schumacher is doing great, when there is essentially no reference.
JohnH (@johnrkh)
31st August 2020, 1:23
At the risk of upsetting Verstappen fans this is why Ricciardo left and no driver has been able to properly compete against Verstappen since. I mean it’s not like it some top secret, the team was announced as team Verstappen back in 2017 that’s it. Verstappen gets the bulk of the support while the no2 driver is left with very little.
I would say Albons days are numbered and I’m thinking Gasly may be given another shot. If I were Gasly I’d politely decline and look to another team to move forward.
Robbie (@robbie)
31st August 2020, 5:13
@johnrkh What’s to get upset over nonsense that no one that has a proper perspective would utter or take seriously.
JohnH (@johnrkh)
31st August 2020, 8:40
@robbie You’re little white pony must be exhausted with you ridding in to defend the indefensible every time someone says anything that may not show RB or Verstappen as perfect.
Robbie (@robbie)
31st August 2020, 14:24
@johnrkh Say something with some semblance of reason and I can give her a rest.
Azmo (@azmo)
31st August 2020, 8:15
This narrative of RedBull working against Verstappens teammate is getting ridiculous.
DannyRic (god bless him) left the team because he got his ass handed to him.
https://www.racefans.net/2018/12/06/2018-team-mates-battles-verstappen-vs-ricciardo-at-red-bull/
https://www.racefans.net/2017/12/01/2017-f1-team-mate-battles-verstappen-vs-ricciardo-at-red-bull/
https://www.racefans.net/2016/12/01/2016-f1-season-stats-team-mate-battles-the-front-runners/
JohnH (@johnrkh)
31st August 2020, 8:44
@azmo All based on qually one lap sprints a statistic introduced to ‘spice’ things up.
F1oSaurus (@)
31st August 2020, 16:00
@azmo So you show us proof of what we claim?
In 2016 Verstappen was totally destroyed by Ricciardo. 2017 it was still pretty even, but Ricciardo had the upper hand. Especially through not making so many mistakes. Although granted it did look like Verstappen would show slightly more potential if he ever could learn to not make so many mistakes.
Then look at that 2018 table and see how Ricciardo barely gets a result in. Now say again with a straight face that Red Bull did not favor Verstappen in 2018. Just try it.
Dave (@davewillisporter)
1st September 2020, 18:28
So, quick check of the Wiki 2018 page and I’m counting Danni Ric 8 DNF to Max 3 DNF. Danni Ric 2 poles to Max zero. 2 wins a piece. Danni Ric 4 fastest laps to Max 2. Podiums, Danni Ric 2 to Max 11. If you exclude retirements then Max beat Daniel in 7 races but Daniel was either the place behind Max or 2 places behind. You can clearly see Max finished the season strong as Daniel tailed off. If you factor in the decision to leave Redbull (which was a direct result of the team backing Max at Azerbaijan after the collision) and the despondent attitude Daniel had after so many DNFs you have to say that Daniel did a good job. He didn’t get his ass handed to him.
Jose Lopes da Silva
31st August 2020, 16:54
The funny thing of this argument is that Albon, unlike Verstappen or Gasly, has a stake in the team.
Adrian
31st August 2020, 2:29
Horner should be begging DRicc to come back.
Just think of how much prize money RBR has missed out on since DRicc left, due to Max’s team mates beingf unable to score top points.
geoffgroom44 (@)
31st August 2020, 8:03
Please disregard the fact,fact, that Albon is currently 4th in the driver standings. But.agreed, he is not..yet…a Hamilton Bottas or Verstappen. Equally I don’t see anyone else in the field that is and is ‘available’ even if RB were interested to swap Alex out.Lewis’s comments are a little misplaced…unless he’s trying to find a shelf for Seb to sit on ?
DaveW (@dmw)
31st August 2020, 4:57
Speaking of stronger I felt so sad to hear Bottas complaining that his leg was going numb from braking. First the black race suit complaints now this. What did he want the team to do about it anyway? He just seems kind of despondent.
DonSmee (@david-beau)
31st August 2020, 16:02
That is what happens when you copy Lewis Hamilton’s brake settings and telemetry!
f12007v (@f1fan-2000)
31st August 2020, 5:55
albon must be thinking what has he done to lewis to deserve this. brazil and austria and now this
John H (@john-h)
31st August 2020, 9:18
Just watch the interview, Hamilton didn’t say Albon needed replacing.
Jeffrey (@jeffreyj)
31st August 2020, 7:18
I thought Hamilton was pro diversity?! So is he pro positive-discrimination or pro best-man-for-the-job?
Albon is someone of color. Statistically a different, better, driver than Albon will be white. For example Hulkenberg or Gasly even, are white.
bob (@riptide)
31st August 2020, 8:38
He is pro-diversity. His point was that with the other RB driver playing at the front RB would have a more diverse range of strategic options to play with; thereby making the race at the front more interesting.
Which is pretty much in line with his thinking about diversity in other areas. Give people the tools to be able to exercise their options.
Jeffrey (@jeffreyj)
31st August 2020, 10:40
@riptide Hehe, so he is pro diverse strategy options and therefore pro-diversity… It is very creative, I have to give you that.
bob (@riptide)
31st August 2020, 13:06
Not very creative. Simple enough for most to understand (who want to). Opening up the same opportunities for those who are disadvantaged in some way is not pro-positive discrimination. Whether it be through opening up education in Africa, putting resources into inner city schools, funding sheltered housing for the homeless, widening the recruitment net for jobs or giving the disabled a platform to shine. Or suggesting it might be more interesting if RB has both drivers up at the sharp end as they would have more strategic options.
I’m not sure where you are seeing this pro-positive discrimination based on colour you seem to think exists.
Dave (@davewillisporter)
1st September 2020, 18:33
All Lewis did was make the observation that there is only one Redbull close to them. That’s it. He didn’t say anything else. The subsequent interpretations of that comment are not his.
w0o0dy (@w0o0dy)
31st August 2020, 8:40
The only thing Max really needs (and everyone else that loves F1 and isn’t employed by Mercedes or a MB-fanboy REALLY needs is for Mercedes to have a car that is 0,5s slower. Then and only then would we get to see something like a close battle for the title. In all honesty I can’t see how Hamilton can possibly throw this title away. Bottas is slower than Albon if you consider the starting position and the tyre wear that running in mid-field brings with it. If Bottas would have to run in 6th place or something simular for more of the GP, Hamilton would put a gap of a minute between them easily. And if Mercedes would be slower in Q3 they might even have to find a way past the red bulls for once.. good luck with that.
F1oSaurus (@)
31st August 2020, 16:02
@w0o0dy Verstappen could try to provide some useful feedback and spirit to take the team to a higher plan and actually help them design a faster car for a change?
w0o0dy (@w0o0dy)
31st August 2020, 16:48
You don’t know what you are talking about… No F1 team builds a car because of the driver feedback. Feedback is for fine-tuning the set-up, minor changes that focus on details. Fact is the RedBull car is not as big an improvement as was needed.. so they actually lost terain to Mercedes.
F1oSaurus (@)
1st September 2020, 7:55
@w0o0dy Lol, you are kidding right? Hamilton’s feed back tells them where to improve the handling or whatever.
People claim that Schumacher was at the basis for the car that Hamilton got. Well, 7 years on, the car is now what Hamilton made of it. Instead of a steady P4 scorer it was it’s now a WDC winning beast.
Whats even worse for Albon though. Drivers have their preferential driving style and in a #1 driver team like Red Bull, the car gets built to their liking. Mercedes will indeed design a car that simply fast and good for both drivers.
w0o0dy (@w0o0dy)
1st September 2020, 8:07
No the drivers have a small amount of influence on the designprocess of the car. Schumacher wanted a razor sharp turn in and only power oversteer. Nowadays you cannot influence the car as much as the technology is too far advanced.
Max is actually very precise and knowledgeable in feedback and car set-up. Way better than most as he used to setup his go karts together with his dad.
Newey has designed a car that has a narrow limit. His experience and feel for the car are why Max can extract the maximum out of it. Albon needs to improve on that front to get close to the times Max can manage in qualifying because his racecraft helps him in the race. Max cannot go flat out since they are managing tyres and fuel and even engine wear. So he is nowhere near the limit. That’s when Albon can put in comparable laptimes. He doesn’t need to go to the limit just a little harder than Max. So his tyre wear isn’t as good and his strategy comes up short sometimes… And running behind the Mercedes is less of an issue than trying to overtake a Racing Point car or McLaren.
F1oSaurus (@)
1st September 2020, 15:58
@w0o0dy ROFL Yeah you would say that, because Verstappen is clearly so poor at helping the team move forwards.
The car is designed for Verstappen and it’s clearly holding the car designers back. Or it keeps them coming out with a car that’s hopeless to drive. Then it takes them half the season to finally figure it out. They have a few good races at the end of the season. So we are now almost there, next year the fight is on! Rinse and repeat
Dave (@davewillisporter)
1st September 2020, 18:45
@f1osaurus Again, I need to correct the record. That is not how F1 works. Adrian Newey has stated in interviews that he DOES NOT design a car for a particular driver or indeed for ease of practicality. He designs the best car he can think of. He even designed a car at McLaren that the drivers refused to drive because it was so edgy. Cars are designed to be as fast as possible, the most down force with the least drag and the most power from the PU. Once they hit the track the drivers evaluate them and the team makes changed based on that. You do not design an oversteery car or a car that brakes really well or an understeery car. That is down to set up. That’s what engineers do not designers. Micheal Schumacher didn’t like the V10 because it had less engine braking than the V12. Ferrari still made him drive the V10! It’s not the driver that gets to decide the car that’s produced at the beginning of the year. They do however steer the direction of development. At the moment the Redbull is being developed for Albon not Max. It is not “Max’s car”
F1oSaurus (@)
2nd September 2020, 19:26
@davewillisporter That is exactly how racing works. Different driving styles requires difference in cars
bob (@riptide)
31st August 2020, 16:23
Why? Max is beating Bottas in the championship; and not doing a shabby job against Bottas in qualifying. So it seems that a particular driver is more to do with the problem than the actual car. Maybe they ought to nobble Hamilton; as he is clearly to fast for F1?
w0o0dy (@w0o0dy)
31st August 2020, 16:53
Max is over performing with the car, Bottas is a few percent off the potential of his car. That’s why Lewis is much more successful in the races compared to Bottas. And Max is performing excellent in qualifying and almost flawless in the races too… That’s why Albon is looking slow.. I doubt Albon is really performing below the level off Bottas, it’s just that qualifying is not going well and then the race is much tougher. Bottas is actually performing well in qualifying but not so well in the races. Good thing he has a far superior ride.. or else he would not even be 3rd in the championship.
Rodber
31st August 2020, 8:43
Would be nice if Lewis zipped it just for five minutes, and let other teams deal with their own issues.
Of course, the car he’s driving is so so far ahead, why should he care what the others are doing??
John H (@john-h)
31st August 2020, 9:19
You’ve been triggered by the headline. Watch the interview, Hamilton makes a decent point about strategy. Sigh.
David Bondo
31st August 2020, 9:41
Verstappen is the strongest driver on the grid he’s going to make anyone look bad. Ricciardo ran from a team that contends for wins 3-4 times per year to a midfield team because he knew he couldn’t compete with Verstappen. Ricciardo is a top driver too.
Verstappen would be 7-0 in qualifying vs Bottas put it that way. Wouldn’t be 5-2.
David (@davidjwest)
31st August 2020, 10:10
Danny Ric beat Max 11-6 in qualifying in their first season together.
He left Red Bull as he could see the team was favouring his team-mate.
David Bondo
31st August 2020, 13:54
Ricciardo is a top driver and with his experience and should have beaten an 18 year old.
But Verstappen after a while got on top of Ricciardo.
It would have happened sooner if not for horrible luck for Verstappen.
bob (@riptide)
31st August 2020, 13:12
Second strongest driver. Thats why Max ran away from Mercedes when they showed an interest in him and sought an easy ride with a cuddle from Marko and Horner every time he screws up. And in the process signed a long term contract to hide behind in case Mercedes came calling again. (To phrase it in language you seem to employ.)
David Bondo
31st August 2020, 13:55
Hamilton vetos having a strong teammate. Wouldn’t allow Alonso when Rosberg left.
Bottas is the best wingman in the business.
F1oSaurus (@)
31st August 2020, 16:04
No, Verstappen ran away from Mercedes.
Hamilton has no say over who is his team mate. Although the team might take in consideration that they don’t want anyone as toxic as Rosberg back in the team if they can help it.
Clearly Mercedes wanted to hire Verstappen though, because they tried to get him.
w0o0dy (@w0o0dy)
31st August 2020, 16:57
Of course Hamilton has a say. Do you really think the Management at Mercedes would opt for a Rosberg/Hamilton all out war again? You can bet your a## that having Max next to Lewis would cause mayhem in that team and it might have resulted in neither of them winning the drivers championship and maybe could have cost Mercedes the constructors championship. So no, with Lewis there no-one in his right mind would go after Max and start WW3.
Wbravenboer
31st August 2020, 18:51
You bet that mercedes tried to get max, there was only one problem at that time: red bull could give him a seat at toro rosso right away, with a chance to reach the main team. Toto had no such possibility, and they knew that max and lewis in one team would cause firework.
Albon is not a bad driver, but the rb16 is just a tricky car, it’s getting better, but it’s handling is not as balanced as they would like. One of Max’ greatest talents is that he can drive around the problems, just like Lewis can. Alex lacks confidence, and the current criticism is not really fair, it is true that he cannot support max, but with a difficult car it would not be easy for anyone. Sure, i would love to see hulkenberg or perez with rb, but for now albon is there. And people saying it is Max’ team? Of course, he is one of the best drivers out there, and he can mold the team around him, Lewis has already done this, and I am sure he would love to fight with Max, just not in the same car… Bottas is a strong driver, the perfect number two, he reminds me of Rubens, fast and likeable, just not WDC material.
If Lewis should retire, just imagine Max and George Russell at Mercedes….
F1oSaurus (@)
1st September 2020, 7:57
@w0o0dy Of course Hamilton has no say. He might express an opinion, but that’s all it is. The team decides.
F1oSaurus (@)
1st September 2020, 8:04
Wbravenboer I see Verstappen wasting wins while driving the fastest car every season (like Hungary, Monaco and Mexico last year for instance). While I see Hamilton rack up plenty wins when not in the fastest car (Bahrain, Monaco, Canada, Hungary, Russia and Mexico in 2019 alone) Mexico he even won in the third fastest car while Verstappen, Leclerc and Vettel messed it all up.
Verstappen just makes too many mistakes to be considered a serious WDC contender. Apart from throwing away wins, his poor performance Bahrain, crashing in Spa and Monza last season. This season he broke his front wing in Styria (losing him P2) and he crashed into the wall before the race even started in Hungary (where he was incredibly lucky to get away with it).
Maybe one day Verstappen will actually live up to the hype that he’s getting, but for now he just is not showing it.
bob (@riptide)
31st August 2020, 16:16
No he doesn’t. But I’m sure it makes you feel better to say so.
David (@davidjwest)
31st August 2020, 9:51
Swap Bottas for Albon, see what happens.
w0o0dy (@w0o0dy)
31st August 2020, 18:01
That’s actually a nice idea just not if you are Bottas hahaha
SadF1fan
31st August 2020, 10:36
Alex Albon you got the Lewis Hamilton stamp of disapproval.
The seat next to Max is officially the punching bag seat.
Let’s hope Albon is strong enough to take the beating.
John
31st August 2020, 11:28
Ham needs Nico back to keep him honest. Albon is doing just fine.
Edvaldo
31st August 2020, 14:44
Not really, no. If he loses that seat, people will soon talk about how bad he was in a top car, just like they do about Kovalainen today, and he’ll be ruined for F1 justst like Kova was after Mclaren. And Kovalainen even won races, Albon never got remotely close to doing something similar.
baasbas
31st August 2020, 12:46
Hamilton to Red Bull confirmed!
AliceD (@aliced)
31st August 2020, 13:13
It would be very good for Mercedes if Max has a faster team mate. Then Max would be fighting his team mate, leaving the Mercedes to cruise to a thousand more easy and pointless victories.
F1 is a joke. The engine manufacturers have too much power to stop any kind of change.
F1oSaurus (@)
31st August 2020, 16:08
@aliced Yes the engine is all that counts. That’s why Racing Point and Williams are racking up the wins and podiums.
If anything, Red Bull are doing this to themselves. They insist on their high rake concept which will always cause more drag and make the car slower on a straight. In return it will produce more downforce and be easier on the tyres and faster on tracks with low to medium speed corners.
So then Horner can pretend it’s only the straights that is costing them the time and that Verstappen is so great he’s faster through the corners. While they damn well know it’s their own chosen compromise to be slower on the straights and faster through corners.
AliceD (@aliced)
31st August 2020, 16:34
No one is going to think the engine is all that counts. I don’t know how that idea entered your head or you are just saying random words. I am saying the rules of F1 are rubbish. I am saying it is not possible to change the rules because it is too easy for Mercedes OR Renault OR Ferrari OR Honda to say no to any proposed change.
F1oSaurus (@)
1st September 2020, 7:56
@aliced
w0o0dy (@w0o0dy)
1st September 2020, 8:38
You misread that… The companies behind the big teams have too much political power to allow any real changes in the regulations is what he meant.
Stewart Moir
31st August 2020, 22:29
The tail gunning on this site is legendary.
Esploratore (@esploratore)
1st September 2020, 1:29
I agree with some of the things horner said, but this I just can’t: “I think he’ll have more Sundays like that in the coming races where he’s competing and fighting for podium finishes on merit. So, the team has confidence in him and belief in him and we’re happy with our choice.”
How is albon supposed to get a podium? In a race where verstappen DNF? Cause otherwise I don’t see a bottas-quality-red bull driver beating a bottas on mercedes…
w0o0dy (@w0o0dy)
1st September 2020, 8:41
Maybe a Mercedes or RedBull could have issues and Albon would be there to pick up the points and podium. I don’t really consider that scoring a podium on merit but I can see that scenario one day this year. Look at Brasil last year.. and what I’d Hamilton had taken himself out instead of ruining Albons race (again)?
Dennis Mwansa
1st September 2020, 2:47
@Kieth, Your headline here is a bit of sensationalism. It makes it look like the gist of what Lewis was talking about is Alex not being a good driver. Watching his comments and keeping in mind the questions he was responding to, one realizes Lewis was actually saying “RedBull have as good a car as we have and it is just because they cannot use all strategies open to us with two drivers in the front because one of their drivers is not in the front”. In my view Lewis was countering the perception that Merc are beating Redbull because they have a superior car.