McLaren third in points with “fourth or fifth-quickest car” – Seidl

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Seidl says McLaren are leading the midfield fight despite Racing Point having by far the fastest car among this group:

We have always been realistic. In average since the beginning of the year the Racing Point – and it’s not a surprise, by the way this car has been created – it’s clearly the fastest car in this battle I think also by quite some margin.

But at the same time, we could manage by great performances of our two drivers and I think also by a great execution of the race team with a car on our side, which is also a good step forward compared to last year but in average is probably the fourth or fifth quickest car to score points.

It’s brought us this 106 points where we are right now. At the same time, that’s not something we get carried away from. We need to keep developing the car in order to get closer or to keep the fight up.

Quotes: Dieter Rencken

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Comment of the day

Renault is the obvious choice for Red Bull in 2022, says Phil:

I cannot see Red Bull going anywhere but to Renault. Renault next year will only be supplying themselves so it all stands to reason. I am not sure Red Bull will even have another option.

I am not sure what would happen if Renault refused but I am not sure that they can or why they would. The other factor is that McLaren are doing pretty well this year with Renault engines so I don’t think there would be much of a loss to Red Bull. They have to design a new car for 2022 anyway.

I am not sure AlphaTauri will go to Renault as well though. They may end up with Ferrari as used to be the case.

In the medium term though I am sure F1 will be very keen to get another power unit manufacturer on board. The obvious candidates are VW/Porsche. Will anyone want to join though before the next redesign of power units is due?
Phil Norman (@Phil-f1-21)

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  • 27 comments on “McLaren third in points with “fourth or fifth-quickest car” – Seidl”

    1. I think Racing Point will be sorely disappointed that they haven’t scored more points/podiums than they have this year. They should be qualifying and finishing between 4th and 6th every weekend and picking up podiums when Mercedes and Verstappen have faltered. There are of course still races left

      1. With perez coming on strong lately and lance pumping in solid points I expect they’ll make it by the end of the season.

      2. Racing Point did score more points than McLaren but got some of those subtracted due to how the ‘car has been created’.

      3. Ben Rowe (@thegianthogweed)
        3rd October 2020, 10:25

        Well Perez has missed 2 races and Stroll has had 3 DNFs that were not his own fault. Stroll has easily missed around 25 points this year. Then there is also the fact hulkenberg couldn’t start in britain. i think it is very likely stroll will have got a podium again in italy if not for his tyre failure.

      4. To be fair Sainz has also missed out on some peobable good results, reliability issues and clumsy crashes

        1. Ben Rowe (@thegianthogweed)
          3rd October 2020, 21:54

          Yea, i think most will remember Sainz’s lack of points as being 100% down to the crazy restart that race, but had it just been a normal race after the first corner incident, he will have had to recover from dead last due to his spin on the first lap. So even without his retirement, that will have been a very large amount of points missed.

    2. Mclaren have shown that a team needs more than just a car to be successful in F1 and that it’s about minimising all mistakes.

      Unfortunately I suspect that over the course of the year, a couple of obvious ones by Sainz, and a mechanical failure will ultimately cost the, a place or two.

      Great to see they’ve improved all round, particularly for Dan going there next year, but they’ll need to improve even more to pull clear of the midfield.

    3. With Red Bull’s inconsistent form and a complete disintegration of Ferrari, you would expect a bit more in terms of speed and results from McLaren. If you think of it, only Monza and the first Silverstone race were instances when they’ve shown a genuine pace ahead of their main rivals. I would argue that they rather oriented towards the new rules before Covid-19 happened and didn’t count on something like RP-20 to happen, and in the course of the season, Danny Ric seems to have helped Renault immensely in terms of setups. Good for McLaren that they got him on board.

    4. I thought Liberty already had a part of MSR, hence the SiriusXM wrapped car?

    5. Except for Sainz’s plain dumbness @ Sochi, McLaren are third by default. pink Merc should be miles ahead. Stroll 1 measly point ahead of Perez, who had 2 x DNS for CoVid.
      Perez to RBR, as Helmut has a r-e-a-l problem. Now they are looking to Renault as their logical power unit, Max will see a WDC as a pipe dream & will want out ASAP, to any vacant seat @ Merc. So RBR will want a good driver.
      With Dan & Lando in Merc powered cars in ’21, after a settling-in period, it would be logical to think that McLaren would be aiming @ #2, as both pink Mercs & Williams-Merc have been overall a disaster & I am not convinced Seb in the green Merc will set the world on fire.

    6. So he’s bragging that they are 2 points ahead of Racing point (for now) after Racing Point had 15 points deducted. OK.

      Besides the three teams from 3rd to 5th fastest are on almost equal points. With McLaren profiting most from the two upset races (Austria and Monza) which also skews the result a little.

      If things continue like they have, I’d say that RP will finish the season 3rd, Renault 4th and McLaren 5th.

      Also, if anything, Ricciardo is the one showing that a good driver is a great asset. With McLaren it’s more the car that put them ahead of Renault. Ricciardo is the one that helps Renault move forwards while Ocon is massively disappointing. Ricciardo is also very consistent While Sainz has been very error prone lately.

      1. @f1osaurus I didn’t see it as bragging – I saw it as realism. He’s saying they shouldn’t get ahead of themselves being 3rd in the championship when they don’t have the 3rd quickest car overall. If anything it’s a comment that shows they need to work harder to catch up pace-wise.

        McLaren didn’t benefit much from the red flag at Monza. They were running 2nd and 3rd on merit before that happened. Racing Point gained more out of that situation, and probably should have taken the win so you could argue the swing was in their direction, not McLaren’s. McLaren have definitely made more out of their potential this year than Racing Point.

      2. I wouldn’t see it as bragging and I wouldn’t say they’re profitting from two odd races, either. If McLaren results are skewed, it’s rather other way around – they have lost many points in rather unfortunate manner, though many times it went down to their own mistakes – bad start in Hungary and Russia, older tires at Silverstone resulting in losing 4-5 finnish and a haunting luck for Sainz throughout the season. They surely aren’t the quickest of the upper midfield, but given these losses it is also respectable they are currently where they are.

      3. @keithedin @pironitheprovocateur, This is the definition of bragging. They are overly proud of the achievement.

        McLaren did benefit a lot from Monza. And also Austria. There was more than a red flag going on in Monza.

        In normal statistical analysis you eliminate the outliers before looking at the numbers. Take away the top result and worst result of each of the drivers and McLaren scored least of these 3 teams.

        1. Please read Seidl’s comments again and quote for us where he is bragging.
          He did not even mention being 3rd, let alone being ‘overly proud’ of it.

          To me he seems content with the improvements since last year, and conscious of the need to keep up the hard work and improve further.

        2. Why not try to read the real content of the story and not your interpretation of it?

        3. You don’t seem to explain in the slightest why you even think mclaren benefitted from monza red flag, I’ll repeat what the other poster said: mclaren had their drivers 2nd and 3rd, behind just hamilton, before the red flag!

    7. Red Bull second in points with the fourth or fifth quickest car, powered by the third best engine and only one driver who delivers!

      1. Williams last in the points with the 24th or 29th best car powered by lacky bands with up to three drivers in each car!!

      2. I have to admit that while I didn’t believe those people who accused of trolling with multiple accounts at first, that it seems VERY suspicious that bondo and oconomo both wrongly say red bull are the 4th or 5th quickest car when it’s clear they’re 2nd. Mclaren as you can see didn’t even mention red bull in their fight.

    8. In response to the COTD: No, I don’t think another manufacturer would enter F1 as long as the engine formula stays entirely the same due to its complexity.

      1. Particularly when one team (mercedes) seems to have all the right answers to that complexity.
        Thus a new manufacturer will face not only the regulations but a team that is already faster.
        Either F1 returns to internal combustion or it will be full on eletric by 2030.
        Not by choice, but because nobody will want to invest tons of money – like Renault – and still miss podiums.

      2. But can we come up with a PU formula that’s less complex @jerejj? And that someone can come in and compete with HPP, Ferrari and Renault with?

        After all these hybrids aren’t complicated in principle. They only get complicated when you try to make them the best. The fuel flow limit is one source of complexity, because it means every 0.1% of combustion efficiency makes a difference, and do we want to abandon the fuel flow limit? And in any case you need the best combustion efficiency to win.

        The electric side is perfectly simple too, in principle: one electromotor on the driven axle, and one on the turbo shaft. A battery. It’s all computer controlled so just decide when to spin the turbo and when to harvest, and when to deploy battery via the K. There are some key limits anyway, so a lot of it is already decided for you.

        Of course HPP make their own electromotors and they’re probably the most efficient and effective, and same with the turbo and all the other parts and the programming. BUT the question is, what kind of PU can we define, that HPP won’t do better?

        1. You are absolutely right that it’s actually simple in principle, so it’s ridiculous how complex they have managed to make it. There is no way a new manufacturer would come in and try to compete with the already developed engines in use now. If I remember correctly Mercedes started designing their engine 6 or 7 years before it was used on track in 2014, add to that another 7 years of development. Anyone starting now would then be the best part of 15 years behind. No way. There will be no new entrants until a change of formula.

          I hope F1 turn to a single supply ICE and let the teams and manufacturers plow their resources and branding into their own hybrid systems instead. Full EV is already done in Formula E so there is no point for F1 to do that. Going back to pure ICE would not interest any manufacturer today. But staying hybrid, and put all emphasis on the hybrid technology rather than developing incredibly complicated and expensive ICE’s, manufacturers could still be interested and we might get some real world relevant technology out of it too.

    9. Oh. Just seen I had COTD. Thank you @keithcollantine

    10. Mclaren started strong but have been out developed by the midfield contenders, maybe they are investing heavily for integrating the Mercedes engine next year.

    11. He compared the situation to horse racing continuing to thrive long after horses ceased to be a regular form of transport.

      “There will always be a space for combustion motorsport but it won’t be related to the industry. I think the industry will eventually only focus on electric motorsport,” said the Spaniard.

      Such interesting words from Alejandro Agag. I have never even considered that option. It’s actually a very exciting idea. I can see F1 returning to the days of small independent petrolheads building their own cars cheaply and going racing. I would watch that! Even if it wasn’t the pinnacle of motorsport anymore, I would be interested.

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