Daniil Kvyat, AlphaTauri, Nurburgring, 2020

AlphaTauri will upgrade to some newer Red Bull parts without using ‘tokens’

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In the round-up: AlphaTauri will take advantage of the opportunity to incorporate 2020-specification Red Bull parts in its new car without using its allocation of upgrade ‘tokens’.

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Comment of the day

@Simon999 rubbishes the rumours Lewis Hamilton is demanding power of veto over who his team mate is:

I doubt the veto rumour has any truth to it. There’s nothing in Hamilton’s history that suggests he’d be scared of any opponent, and has always seemed to welcome a challenge to push himself forward.

Bottas hasn’t been as much as a challenge for him as hoped, but it has enabled a perfect team dynamic for several years, so I’m sure it was Mercedes who were most interested in having Bottas in the second seat.

Assuming the team plans to stick around in F1, a great future path for them might be:

2021 – Hamilton and Bottas
2022 – Hamilton and Russell
2023 – Verstappen and Russell

If Hamilton scared of George Russell, at this point in his career, I’d have a lot less respect for him. Russell is a very promising driver, but he isn’t an obvious standout amongst a very talented group of peers around his age in F1.
@Simon999

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  • 30 comments on “AlphaTauri will upgrade to some newer Red Bull parts without using ‘tokens’”

    1. someone or something
      6th February 2021, 1:21

      That loophole is really getting on my nerves. It would’ve been so easy to close … But McLaren can’t really do much with their car other than adapting it for an engine change that was decided long before the pandemic was a thing.
      It just makes no sense.

      1. Not a fan of the execution of the token system, but in general it makes sense as it was introduced to reduce development costs during a ‘gap year’ (due to the pandemic), and is consistent amongst the teams.

        It was McLaren who decided to change the PU this year (and use the tokens in related areas) rather than delaying it one year in line with the new generation cars.

        1. Its fair enough about McLaren, they are using tokens for the upgrade they consider most useful.

          The annoyance is that ‘B’ teams are getting upgrades for free, as well as whatever they want to spend tokens on – all while genuine constructors are restricted.

    2. Wow. The Sun clearly knows a thing or two about writing fantasy.

      Then again, I suppose it is the Sun.

      1. I mean, it’s not strictly fantasy @dbradock, as it contains direct quotes from Hamilton himself … it’s just that he made them two years ago in a completely different context.

        Obviously the Sun are looking for clicks from people who are Googling the latest status of Hamilton’s contract talks … the same reason why everyone vaguely connected with F1 is being asked for their take on the issue and having it written up into a story. The Express website is carrying a ‘story’ about Hamilton’s contract virtually every day, but very few of them contain anything new.

      2. I never click on any The Sun linked articles, but the title is quite factual in the part where they call him unemployed (made me chuckle).
        I guess his resume and LinkedIn status has been updated to ‘in between jobs’.

        1. In between jobs apart from with Hilfiger, Loreal, Pilot, IWC and co owner of restaurant chain. So scraping by on between $10-£20 million annually, until something better turns up. :)

          1. Not uncommon to spend some time in retail and hospitality when in between jobs ;)

    3. 2021 – Hamilton and Bottas
      2022 – Hamilton and Russell
      2023 – Verstappen and Russell

      I can see 2021 and 2022. Not sure of 2023 though. Verstappen as a driver is still evolving. Depends heavily on how 2021 and 2022 go to decide if they still want Verstappen in the seat come 2023. There could be other drivers who impress more in the next 2 years – Sainz, Gasly, Norris are all potentially good candidates who will become even better by 2023. Even Hamilton if he shows no signs of loss of speed due to age in these 2 years.

      Look at Ricciardo for example: his stock rose up significantly in 2014 (his 3rd season) and again in 2016 (his 5th season). But as Verstappen caught up with him in 2017 and 2018, he did not find any top seats for 2019 and even now for 2021 (I am still under the delusion that Ferrari is a top seat BTW :).

      On the other hand, Perez who debuted in the same season as Ricciardo did not find any top seat takers until 2021.

      Point is anything can happen by 2023. Verstappen (or any other driver for that matter) is not a natural shoe-in to any top seat 2 years down the line

      1. Ver is besides Ham, the only option for a top team.
        Lec is extremely error prone and the others you named not more then good mediocre drivers.

    4. COTD are often comical, but this time even more:

      If Hamilton scared of George Russell

      Scared by a 2-points scorer or A place start loser ?

      Nowadays, blithering idioots have as much voice as experts.

      1. That quote has a typo, but not sure if it is missing an ‘is’ or if it should be ‘off’.
        Thus hard to know ‘which way to laugh’.

      2. As demonstrated….

    5. I doubt the veto rumour has any truth to it.

      You have no proof. F1 fans, no matter of which drivers, always look comical to me. It’s always easy for the same people to believe that, for example, Alonso always asks for special treatment and a veto, but not that Hamilton does that. Because fans hate a scapegoat and love the other guy no matter what he does (and this other guy made many questionable things, like showing team telemetry to the world or lying to get the podium, which eventually removed Ron from F1). Double standards.

      I am of the opinion that veto is exactly what Hamilton wants (and also more, much more money), because he lost to Rosberg in 2016, and he doesn’t want that happening again. Otherwise, he will start crashing into his teammate and yelling something like “I didn’t crash into him, he crashed with his rear into my front! I will quit if you don’t let me win all the time!”, etc.

      It’s very easy for him to win nowadays because there’s no pressure. And I know what happens when he gets at least some competition – he crashes and loses. And he knows that.

      Your opinion against mine.

      1. F1 fans, no matter of which drivers, always look comical to me.

      2. Like I said in the other thread, it’s already in Hamilton’s old contract that he is to be consulted about team mate, and with BFF Lauda and superfan Wolff, that was practically the same as a veto right: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/dec/15/lewis-hamilton-f1-mercedes-valtteri-bottas-fernando-alonso-williams He obviously cares who his team mate is.

        Could Daimler and Ineos be forcing Wolff/Hamilton’s hand to ensure continuity with a Russell or Verstappen for ’22? Not unrealistic. For sure Hamilton got thinking after Russell tried his car. It wouldn’t look good for his legacy to lose to him, even if it was due to reliability, unluck or whatever.

        1. It wouldn’t look good for his legacy to lose to him, even if it was due to reliability, unluck or whatever.

          Which F1 driver(s) retired as a champion besides Nico Rosberg?
          @balue

            1. Sick humour or ignorance ?
              @glennb

          1. Prost did. Mansell did (although he did return for a few times), Stewart did, Schumacher would have done had he, not Alonso, won the 2006 championship. So it did happen a few times already.

          2. Fangio (1957), Hawthorn (1958), Stewart (1973), and Prost (1993). Then there’s Rindt who didn’t defend his title due to being dead, and Mansell who preferred Indycar to not driving a Williams in 1993.

      3. Sviat, that is the problem though – your argument could also be equally be turned back against you with the question of what proof you have to support your claim.

        As I have noted in the other thread on this topic, all of the claims about Hamilton wanting a veto are just different sites repeating the claims which the Japanese publisher Autosport Web claims to have heard, although Autosport Web itself is claiming that they have heard the story second hand (though being a bit vague as to who exactly told them that story).

        The fact is, this claim has come from a single source that nobody on this site ever seems to have used as a source of information before and, I am reasonably certain in wagering, is unlikely to get much, if any, attention again – and that source is itself saying that it is simply repeating what somebody else claimed was the case. Does that not strike you as being just a little bit suspect?

        In general, does it not also seem a little peculiar that quite a lot of drivers also say that they have a contractual right to be consulted about a team mate but, despite Balue claiming that such a right is tantamount to a veto, we’ve seen more than a few drivers being appointed as team mates whom the original driver didn’t want? I would be rather more of the opposite position, which would be to suggest that it’s more likely that neither driver had such veto rights.

    6. I’d say the veto rumour has more strength to it than people might think. I mean look at Vettel/Leclerc at Ferrari? If Russell hypothetically joined alongside Hamilton and blew him away regardless of circumstance it would look as poor as it does for Vettel. Personally I think more’s going on there but that’s a different comment.

      Also, regarding COTD, Hamilton alongside Kovalainen, Bottas and most of Rosberg was a walkover – they offered no resistance, no battle. He comfortably had them beat to the point of near embarassment. But Hamilton alongside Button, Alonso and Rosberg for one year, there were fireworks. There were public clashes, spats, brain fade from Hamilton and times he was more focused on beating the other car than the competition.

      Publically he’s always said he would welcome any team-mate and obviously he’s going to say that but also pretty obviously I’d say he’s more comfortable with a compliant team-mate he knows can’t challenge him well than one that’s going to direct push, destabilize and ruffle him.

      1. @rocketpanda

        “Also, regarding COTD, Hamilton alongside Kovalainen, Bottas and most of Rosberg was a walkover”

        Qualifying head-to-head
        Lewis Hamilton Nico Rosberg
        42 Qualified ahead 36
        3 Seasons won qualifying 1
        35 Pole positions 29
        57 Front-row starts 57
        24 Headed front-row lockout 20
        22nd Lowest grid position 12th

        Race head-to-head
        Lewis Hamilton Nico Rosberg
        32 Wins 22
        55 Podiums 50
        37 Ahead in two-car finish 27
        7 Retirements 8
        19 Fastest laps 16
        51 Races led 48

        I would love to hear your reasoning why this is considered a walk-over.

      2. So assuming its a 2 year or more likely a 1 + 1 contract, we are to believe Toto, the boss of the team and part owner, would allow Ham a veto in his last year with the team that would probably badly effect Mercedes going forward. Particularly given there seems to be a feeling amongst the posters who have convinced themselves there is a veto that Russell is better than Hamilton, or at least good enough to frighten him.
        I assume somewhere in this scenario Toto, the manager of Russell, will explain to George that whilst he is better than Hamilton, out of contract at the end of 21, and obviously the future of Mercedes going forward; Toto nevertheless agreed to a veto being issued against him?
        And if it is indeed a 1 + 1 deal any veto is worthless as it would only apply to the second year. By which time Ham could have decided to leave, or Toto decided to replace him. Particularly if Ham decides to veto the driver Toto wants to bring in.

    7. I thought AT said they weren’t going to exploit the no-token upgrades?

      1. @jb784 it is true that Alpha Tauri did claim last month that they were not planning to exploit certain parts of the “no-tokens” upgrade system – but it seems that Egginton was a little careful with his phrasing, with the suggesting it was only certain components they might not use (i.e. they didn’t completely rule it out, only ruling out certain upgrades).

    8. Re F3: Sucks that Petecof can’t afford a drive after I found out what happened to him…

    9. And… it has happened. The motorsport magazin highlights what everyone knew it was going to happen. Haas, RP and Tauri were going to find ways to run 2020 cars rather than 2019.

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