2021 Hungarian Grand Prix Star Performers

69 comments on “2021 Hungarian Grand Prix Star Performers”

1. 

   Fer no.65 (@fer-no65)
   3rd August 2021, 11:17

   1 word of appreciation to Sainz when the team called him in to cover Latifi and Tsunoda, he asked them for patience which was rewarded. He closed on the leading duo very fast after both pitted. His crash at Q2 was maybe a blessing (or not) given the lap 1 disaster, but it was a very mature drive, even if his defence with Hamilton looked weak in comparision to Alonso’s
   1. 

      Esploratore (@esploratore1)
      3rd August 2021, 11:48

      Indeed, it’s rare that drivers oppose the team this way and end up being right, many just follow instructions.
   2. 

      Esploratore (@esploratore1)
      3rd August 2021, 11:49

      As for the defense against hamilton, alonso had more pace than sainz at the time, he even got close to passing sainz himself in the end.
      1. 

         GeeMac (@geemac)
         3rd August 2021, 12:52

         @esploratore1 On his defence, I saw he said in an interview after the race that he was having to save a lot of fuel which explains his rather weak attempt to hold off Hamilton.
2. 

   sumedh
   3rd August 2021, 11:22

   Latifi should have been a star this weekend. Very close to the phenomenon Russell in qualifying and maintained good pace in the race.
   1. 

      John H (@john-h)
      3rd August 2021, 14:53

      Actually a very good shout.
3. 

   jeff
   3rd August 2021, 11:29

   Hamilton only “came alive” because he was in a car that was:
   1 second quicker than everyone else in qualifying
   2 seconds quicker than half the field in qualifying
   THREE seconds quicker than some of the field in qualifying
   around a 76 second lap.
   2 seconds quicker than the entire field in race conditions
   3 seconds quicker than 11/15 cars in race conditions
   FOUR seconds quicker than 5 of the cars in race conditions
   And none of those cars dared to challenge him except one, and it took 6 laps to get past him

   there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING impressive about him coming through the field
   1. 

      Mayrton
      3rd August 2021, 11:43

      I agree, thats why people gwt tired of the Mercedes narrative. I think both Max and Alonso have shown by now to be better skilled than Lewis. He struggles despite his overall car advantage. Then again, it is no wonder since Max and Alonso practice every race weekend, whereas Lewis didnt have any real fighting on his hands for years. Of course occasionally Lewis had his fights but that stands in pale comparison to the number of overtakes the others had to do. And the others did it in relatively equal cars, whereas Hamilton always enjoyed some overspeed (except on his team mate, but ever since Bottas came in, that has been solved too)
      1. 

         Esploratore (@esploratore1)
         3rd August 2021, 11:58

         I think currently alonso is probably up there with hamilton, the problem is they never fight with the same car, and I don’t think that just cause hamilton had a super first season while alonso was still adapting to the bridgestone tyres, I don’t think that now hamilton would be superior to alonso just cause of having more titles.

         If anything you can see in the hamilton mclaren years that alonso was performing as well or better with worse cars, if hamilton became a hero once he got the dominant car it doesn’t say much about him, bottom line is I think they would be performing similarly if they were on the same car, alonso is very old now but hamilton has the same age difference compared to him as he had back in 2007, if alonso is struggling with age, same goes for hamilton.

         I believe verstappen is indeed better currently, and most likely norris, leclerc and maybe russell too, they just rarely have a car to fight with him apart from verstappen, leclerc and norris already showed they’re perfectly able to beat hamilton in the rare cases they have a competitive car, and russell beat bottas by so much that I see no reason he wouldn’t be up there with hamilton.
         1. 

            f12007v (@f1fan-2000)
            3rd August 2021, 12:11

            last i checked alonso got outqualified and outraced by his teammate estaban ocon.
         2. 

            rodewulf (@rodewulf)
            3rd August 2021, 18:58

            @esploratore1

            I believe verstappen is indeed better currently, and most likely norris, leclerc and maybe russell too, they just rarely have a car to fight with him apart from verstappen, leclerc and norris already showed they’re perfectly able to beat hamilton in the rare cases they have a competitive car, and russell beat bottas by so much that I see no reason he wouldn’t be up there with hamilton.

            You’re underestimating experience though. Max is performing better than Lewis this season but to some extent the corresponing divergence between their performance levels and the points difference in the WDC is due to him being a wily old fox nearly as much as Fernando. Of course Lewis had some ugly mistakes along the way, but he benefited from some experience to go around them more effectively (and you’re reading a fierce Ham critic as myself writing that). Max might be faster than Lewis and Fernando but it takes more than this like racing awareness, strategic thinking, some cunning abilities even, to become a racer that is always keen to maximise his results. Fernando is clearly better than Lewis in the strategical affairs, always actively shaping his race plan with his team, as opposed to a more passive approach about those things by Lewis. But I don’t see Max as much different than Lewis on that aspect, unfortunately. He’s generally also letting a powerful weapon like active race planning from the inside of cockpit go to waste in this title fight.
      2. 

         Parte
         3rd August 2021, 12:15

         You must have had some Redbull this morning. Lewis already showed his skills when he was team mates with ALonso in 2007.To say MAx and ALonso is better is funny. Oh next you would say if it was not the car he wouldnt be a 7 time champion. This is really getting tired. .Gosh imagine the vitriol if it was Lewis that crashed into the back on Norris? We would have no peace of the summer break
         1. 

            JL (@j-l)
            3rd August 2021, 13:41

            THIS SEASON SO FAR, both Max and Lando have easily been more impressive than Lewis, who has been uncharacteristically error-prone. That all could change.
         2. 

            rodewulf (@rodewulf)
            3rd August 2021, 19:09

            Parte
            No argument to support that Hammy is the best beyond having seven (easily conquered more often than not) world titles. But, yeah… way to go, unchallenged champ! Certainly Sir Hammered is more than twice better than Senna in your fantasy world.
         3. 

            rodewulf (@rodewulf)
            3rd August 2021, 23:41

            .Gosh imagine the vitriol if it was Lewis that crashed into the back on Norris? We would have no peace of the summer break

            Another blunder would be shockling bad, like hammered time for him. Getting way closer to be like Maldonado level of danger on track, not just 2018 Vettel levels.
   2. 

      Mayrton
      3rd August 2021, 11:48

      I just wish Ham does not do a Vettel who struggled with the same. He should retire in time before suffering the same faith.
   3. 

      Esploratore (@esploratore1)
      3rd August 2021, 11:53

      I agree with the principle of your comment, but even as an anti-mercedes myself I think it’s a little exagerated, I know there were some laps where he gained 3-4 sec on the ones he was chasing with fresher tyres, but in qualifying there’s absolutely no way mercedes was 1 sec faster than red bull, they probably had 5 tenths or something, this would make sense with verstappen being able to extract 1 tenth more than hamilton and 4 tenths more than bottas relatively.

      It was indeed kind of expected of him to recover this much, obviously bottas wouldn’t have done it, and after all he wasn’t between the stars on this site.
   4. 

      Michael (@freelittlebirds)
      3rd August 2021, 12:09

      This is like saying that there’s also nothing impressive about Nadal beating everyone 6-0, 6-0, 6-0 at the French Open. Nothing impressive about Usain Bolt running the 100m in 9.58. Nothing impressive about Michael Phelps winning 13 individual golds when other legends of swimming like Spitz, Popov, and Kitajima only have 4.

      After all, they had the better team, the better body, the better technique.

      Heck, if Jeff was doing all of those in their bodies, he would have done even better – I can easily see him getting 6 individual gold medals in swimming :-) There’s a big difference between being able to do something and doing it.

      What I’ve seen is that even the very best athletes/legends crack under pressure.

      Trust me, every driver on and off the paddock is shaking after watching the last 3 laps.
      1. 

         TFLB (@tflb)
         3rd August 2021, 14:22

         @freelittlebirds Nobody’s shaking mate. Closing up that gap was exactly what was expected in a car with at least a second a lap in hand over those in front, plus an extra 2 seconds or so due to the tyres. Hamilton should have won that race easily bit spent far too long trying and failing to get past first Gasly, then Alonso.
         1. 

            Michael (@freelittlebirds)
            3rd August 2021, 14:40

            @tflb That’s like saying that the average pro tennis player is expected to win 20 grand slams :-)
            1. 

               TFLB (@tflb)
               3rd August 2021, 15:50

               @freelittlebirds No, it is not. Completely barmy logic there on your part. Any of the 4 drivers from the top 2 teams could and should have closed that gap, given the same conditions, due to the extreme pace difference that is always so obvious in the races.

               Now, I’m not one of the Hamilton bash-brigade, yes he’s one of the best drivers in the history of the sport etc, but please… let’s have some realism.
            2. 

               Michael (@freelittlebirds)
               3rd August 2021, 15:56

               @tlfb I disagree… And I will use Marc Marquez’s famous charge from the rear to nearly the front. Could anyone else have done that in that Honda Repsol or any other bike? Obviously, you think so but were that the case, we’d be seeing a lot more of that…
      2. 

         rodewulf (@rodewulf)
         3rd August 2021, 19:25

         @freelittlebirds

         This is like saying that there’s also nothing impressive about Nadal beating everyone 6-0, 6-0, 6-0 at the French Open. Nothing impressive about Usain Bolt running the 100m in 9.58. Nothing impressive about Michael Phelps winning 13 individual golds when other legends of swimming like Spitz, Popov, and Kitajima only have 4.

         It would be accurate only if some runners got Nike sneakers and the others were left to run with flip-flops or at most wearing crocs. Such shallow comparisions with other sports which aren’t about man/machine combination are disappointing even for the lowest standards. Especially coming from you who seems to be more intelligent than an avarage RaceFans #LH44 commentator.
         1. 

            Michael (@freelittlebirds)
            3rd August 2021, 19:43

            @rodewulf

            I watched a woman yesterday in the Olympics trip over someone, fall with 400 meters to go in her heat. She was dead last and trailing by a huge margin. She was the defending champion from the previous olympics.

            Guess what?

            She got up, caught up, made her way to the front and won her heat. Do you think it was her shoes that made that happen or was everyone else wearing flip-flops?

            Do you think anyone else would have covered 9 seconds in 3 laps with medium vs hard tyres catching the guys that no one else was able to catch during the entire race? If you think so, then you’re dreaming. Even Rosberg couldn’t believe his eyes when he saw it and he’s driven that car.
            1. 

               rodewulf (@rodewulf)
               3rd August 2021, 20:23

               @freelittlebirds

               Do you think anyone else would have covered 9 seconds in 3 laps with medium vs hard tyres catching the guys that no one else was able to catch during the entire race? If you think so, then you’re dreaming. Even Rosberg couldn’t believe his eyes when he saw it and he’s driven that car.

               Not a too shabby feat, Bottas definitively wouldn’t do it, but maybe Russell would do it in a Mercedes instead, and certainly Alonso and Verstappen could pull this out. Man, Alonso in an Alpine took 6 seconds in as many laps from Hamilton’s Mercedes, lap 40 to 46 (and that’s normal stuff from him, although he’s not bending physics laws, “only” being a great racer): https://www.racefans.net/2021/08/01/2021-hungarian-grand-prix-interactive-data-lap-charts-times-and-tyres/#comment-4682217
               You’re too overconfident with a piece of data out of context, ignoring the state of tyres from all the drivers involved. Which performance delta do you expect between a Mercedes with way fresher medium tyres against Alpines and a Aston Martin with older hard tyres? One second? ‒ So Lewis takes away two or three secs per lap with his own miracle as a god? ‒ Come on. Listen to reason.
               When the shoe was in the other foot, that is, Verstappen taking a Hamilton-esque win in the French GP (with the difference of having a slightly slower car in race pace), was it unbelievable that he made a pit stop and smashed the resulting gap so quickly?
               Amazing stuff, it indeed was, fully worldclass. But not god’s level. Every driver that is considered crème de la crème in the field should be able to make such heroics. The same applies to Hamilton and the gaps he overcame last race.
            2. 

               Michael (@freelittlebirds)
               4th August 2021, 12:09

               @rodewulf Ocon and Vettel’s tyres had 30 laps on them apiece – it’s the hard tyre which is supposed to last 50 laps so they were practically brand new :-)

               Lewis was on the medium on 20 laps and it’s supposed to last 30 so again pretty new.

               If Lewis’ car is 3-4 seconds quicker than the midfield cars on a medium vs hard, Lewis would be ending the races lapping the Red Bulls for the 3rd or 4th time and qualifying a decent 2-3 seconds ahead of Max.
            3. 

               rodewulf (@rodewulf)
               4th August 2021, 15:53

               Ocon and Vettel’s tyres had 30 laps on them apiece – it’s the hard tyre which is supposed to last 50 laps so they were practically brand new

               This hyperbolical assumption of “pratically brand new” is your way to twist for your argument. More than half life to the maximum of a tyre is never too light wear. And for the performance delta the age of tyres is what matters the most. Tyres usually don’t behave like that, being almost completely fine for lost of laps and then degrade badly out of the sudden. Too much of a discontinuity.

               Lewis was on the medium on 20 laps and it’s supposed to last 30 so again pretty new.

               As the case before it’s not quite like that. Ten laps of additional tyre deg when they’re past absolute half-life make a difference worth of at least 1 sec in pure pace, as demonstrated by Hamilton himself after he cleared Tsunoda between laps 31 and 36 (hard tyres v. 15 laps older medium tyres for the leading drivers) when he took away about 8 secs. in five laps catching Sainz. Notice how smaller delta he was able to impose, but even if the hard compound is a full second slower than the medium (usually figures are some tenths less than that), the slower compound effect was completely cancelled out by a pace advantage coming from fresher but not so new tyres. So additional ten laps in tyres more than falway to be discarded makes you roughly one second slower, and this delta increases at the rate of pit stop window coming closer (example: Sainz’ pace way slower than Alonso’s in the last few laps, Fernando would maybe find a way past him if the race had some more laps).

               If Lewis’ car is 3-4 seconds quicker than the midfield cars on a medium vs hard, Lewis would be ending the races lapping the Red Bulls for the 3rd or 4th time and qualifying a decent 2-3 seconds ahead of Max.

               That’s way those figures are like saying the world consumes ten times more energy than it produces, the numbers don’t add up. I might look like magic to an emotionally carried away fan but it isn’t, nevertheless still being an impressive pace. Additional ten laps of tyre wear on that height of their stints plus the normal difference between mediums and hards would amount to least 1.5 secs. of the trick. So we end up with about 1.5 delta difference to an Alpine and an Aston Martin, what is, you can guess, pretty much expected for midfield cars to be trailling behind per lap in a race. Again, what Lewis did in the last three laps (that a driver like Bottas hardly would ever be able to do) Max would have no problems to do it a couple of times with his current Red Bull if he had failed the amount of times that Hamilton/Mercedes has been failing in strategy and/or avoiding costly mistakes. Fernando would have not much difficulty either on doing that as well whenever he had the car, and maybe George too, if he asserts his race pace a little more to be closer to his overperforming quali displays.
            4. 

               Michael (@freelittlebirds)
               5th August 2021, 15:00

               @rodewulf

               To quote Abiteboul

               tu n’a pas raison, mon ami!

               If you look at the lap times, you shall see that Esteban Ocon’s lap time on the 50th lap was 1:21.832.

               On lap 69, it was 1:21.855. A difference of just 2/100ths.

               The hard tyre is very consistent as evidenced by Esteban’s quickest laps were on laps 54 and 64 when the tyres were 21 laps and 31 laps old.
            5. 

               rodewulf (@rodewulf)
               5th August 2021, 20:26

               @freelittlebirds
               You just forgot that fuel loads decrease which makes cars significantly lighter and faster (usually more than 3 secs. from the beginning to near the end of a race even with old hard tyres which amounts to one full second worth during 20 laps, like in your example mentioning Ocon’s final part of the race), what compensates for tyre wear into the lap time charts as long as before those crappy Pirelli tyres start to become waste. The fact that tyre wear didn’t reflect in lap times does not mean at all it hadn’t been an important factor since the beginning of the stint. Even the hard tyres start degrading fast but the amount of accumulated wear in the beginning of a stint isn’t a worry for their performance in a race as they become way faster than before anyway (that’s why drivers with somewhat decent cars on fresher tyres have a shot for the fastest lap, as demonstrated by gasly last race, but only during a few laps, even though this phenomenon of rapidly increasing initial tyre deg is more noticeable in soft tyres for one flying lap during qualifying). Then the tyre deg rate increases slowly for many laps which is roughly canceled out by the factor of cars constantly becoming lighter, only for later (during the final part of a tyre’s life span) it actually cross the threshold of lap times set in the previous mid-stint, when the tyre deg increases at a rate so high that more than offsets the lower fuel load. That’s why lap times seem to stabilise mid-stint, and this is what happened to Ocon in the final part of the race. So what Hamilton did in the final laps was not a feat for the weak, but he didn’t need superhuman powers either to do that. Finally, to pay homage to the winner team, driver and engine of the last race let’s use French a little bit more:

               Touché!

               ;)
   5. 

      John H (@john-h)
      3rd August 2021, 14:51

      Jeff could have done it.
4. 

   jeff
   3rd August 2021, 11:30

   Also Bottas didn’t “brake too late”, he braked too early, then accelerated and then braked again
5. 

   carbon_fibre (@carbon_fibre)
   3rd August 2021, 11:32

   Vettel was a star too.
   1. 

      Esploratore (@esploratore1)
      3rd August 2021, 12:02

      Agree, think it’s the only mistake of this star and struggler section.
6. 

   KaIIe (@kaiie)
   3rd August 2021, 11:46

   I’d place Ricciardo in the struggles list (then again, I haven’t heard how much damage he potentially picked up from the T1 mayhem). Dropping out of points in a McLaren on a day that a midfield team could win a race? Not his strongest day.
   1. 

      Esploratore (@esploratore1)
      3rd August 2021, 12:01

      I’d have placed him in the strugglers too but then I heard he had damage, and if verstappen struggled so much on a damaged red bull, I can’t imagine a damaged mclaren, with a bit slower driver.
7. 

   Jere (@jerejj)
   3rd August 2021, 12:21

   Stars: OCO, VET, HAM, SAI, ALO, LAT, RUS, and SCH
   Strugglers: BOT, STR, and GIO
8. 

   jeff
   3rd August 2021, 12:50

   It may seem like Bottas had a lenient penalty(I’m guessing the stewards took into account the conditions but in reality he shouldn’t be allowed on the grid next time round), but let us not forget that he hasn’t overtaken another car(be they his teammate or cars 4 seconds a lap slower than him) for seasons now.

   He may be the worst racer on the grid, even Mazepin is better in battles than he is.
   1. 

      John H (@john-h)
      3rd August 2021, 14:50

      “he shouldn’t be allowed on the grid next time round”

      Completely over the top, how many other first corner shunts has he caused in his now very long career?
      1. 

         F1 frog (@f1frog)
         3rd August 2021, 15:53

         I believe this is the first time Bottas has ever been responsible for another driver’s retirement.
   2. 

      rodewulf (@rodewulf)
      3rd August 2021, 18:28

      jeff

      He may be the worst racer on the grid, even Mazepin is better in battles than he is.

      Bottas’ racecraft is just terrible, simply put. He has a dreadful inability on both overtaking and defending, maybe in fact the most inept driver of the grid for the wheel-to-wheel combat. But, on the opposite trend of Perez, Tsunoda, and some other drivers, he’s a pretty decent qualifier and that’s what has been saving him from being utterly disgraceful as a driver this season. Notice that Bottas basically never gained any positions in a race for quite a long time, only losing partially or completely what he achieved in qualifying.
      To summarise, even if Mr. Saturday can’t take the fight with Hamilton on Sunday, what I seriously doubt, he still would at least show fighting spirit when needed the most.
9. 

   F1 frog (@f1frog)
   3rd August 2021, 14:09

   I mostly agree with these, although I would add Vettel and maybe Hamilton to the stars section (I’m not sure what the limit is to the most stars allowed).
10. 

    John H (@john-h)
    3rd August 2021, 14:48

    When is the penny going to drop that Tsunoda is not good enough for F1? I think he’s the worst driver on the grid at the moment, possibly worse than Mazepin. Terrible debut season, seems to be getting let off due to his personality (which is great by the way), but F1 is not a personality context. Albon should be in that car for sure.
    1. 

       rodewulf (@rodewulf)
       3rd August 2021, 18:16

       Tsunoda’s race pace up to now is just marginally better than what Albon usually managed to do, but he has been a very bad qualifier, a bad starter and had lots of incidents as well. Things are no longer looking promising for Yuki, the rookie. He has talent, but definitively came to Formula 1 too green, with a ton of things to learn before becoming a decent driver.
    2. 

       Craig
       4th August 2021, 11:58

       Tsunoda’s quick but he needs a lot of maturing, something Red Bull is infamous for now really allowing.
11. 

    Michael (@freelittlebirds)
    3rd August 2021, 14:51

    The way things are headed Lewis is going to be flying, not driving, that car around circuits. I think the FIA may want to put a rule in place that cars must remain on the ground to cover the possibility of Lewis taking off and overtaking in the air. It’s just a matter of time before it happens – we all know it :-)

    Is there anything this man cannot do? We shall never see the likes of Sir Lewis Hamilton in this sport.
    1. 

       rodewulf (@rodewulf)
       3rd August 2021, 18:05

       Pass the lowly midfield Alpine car with tyre disadvantage in less than 10 laps if driven by Alonso, I guess. ;)
       There’s also manage to successfully complete an overtake on Max in a standing start, but we all know its a matter of time for him to do it, isn’t it?
12. 

    rodewulf (@rodewulf)
    3rd August 2021, 16:36

    Esteban and Fernando were by far the biggest Stars shining brighter than anyone this race, which was unexpectedly bossed by Alpine. Sorry Hammy, I know you pulled some nice moves along the way but you had been not quite left in a bad situation, despite dropping to last he could make pit stops again and again and still easily catching cars ahead, surely close match to his machinery was nowhere to be seen in the entire race with only a crippled Red Bull limping. The thing is Fernando gifted us with the illusion of a nearly equal terms fight with his outstanding defensive display for 10 laps, because otherwise we’d get the true picture of how the 1# Mercedes was outright unstopabble for those who survived the first lap carnage. So justice to the “underrated”, Lewis made a very good race after that howler of strategy call which made him a look like a ghost in the starting grid but the flattering car performance was there more than ever this time.
    Some suggested Fernando won this race for Esteban, but even the most superb assist is not complete without a striker to score a goal, and that lively Frenchman capitalised on his chance brilliantly. The Alpine’s teamwork was something that will be remembered for very long, as I wonder when was the last time that two team-mates were doing so much fine stuff in synchrony to bring a Formula 1 win for their équipe. Perez helped Verstappen take a hard fought French GP win basically only for making his tyres live for longer and that’s it, for instance, so not a match on this department. The first time Ocon finished a race ahead of Alonso since the Monaco GP was certainly a emphatic one, and I think he is really in good shape to avoid being Vandoorned this season, who doubts that now?

    On a side note, I’m surprised that Keith has been more favourable to Gasly than Hamilton recently, who’d expect that turnaround of events? ;)
13. 

    Niefer (@niefer)
    3rd August 2021, 16:42

    Star: OCO
    Shoutout to VET, HAM, ALO, GAS and MSC.
    Strugglers: STR and RIC.
    1. 

       erikje
       5th August 2021, 10:33

       So bottas not a struggler. .
       He just did his work I guess then.
14. 

    Sensord4notbeingafanboi (@peartree)
    3rd August 2021, 18:34

    Again Gasly is a star in being mediocre. Tauri’s strategy of pitting Gasly as Tsunoda was passed backfired completely, as Gsly failed to undercut Ham. Mercedes strategy of having aston take vettel from 2nd made gasly’s fastest lap even less significant.
    1. 

       rodewulf (@rodewulf)
       3rd August 2021, 20:46

       The Star Performers writer is now flattering Gasly even more than he used to do for Hamilton.
15. 

    F1.Fan (@f1-fan)
    3rd August 2021, 19:19

    Of course LAT not a star because he finished above of our golden boy.
    It was nice to see Williams celebration also. “THANK YOU. GR P08/NL P07”.
    The driver that finished in front is mentioned at the back.
    Since we are in internet era, what should I use? 10 LOL or 10 OMG?
    1. 

       rodewulf (@rodewulf)
       3rd August 2021, 20:43

       Same thing happened to George against Kubica in 2019. He was technically outscored by the Polish who was no longer the good driver he used to be (1-0), but who dares to say that it wasn’t because of sheer luck, or unluck on Russell’s side? Of course one point is still one point (obviously it matters), but Russell still had a performance leagues ahead.
       1. 

          F1.Fan (@f1-fan)
          3rd August 2021, 22:05

          @rodewulf What you say is completely irrelevant. The essence here is not the overall perfomance and comparison. We are talking strictly for Hungarian GP. Kudos to RUS for trying to help his teammate, at least as he said on the radio, but this thing, both here and in Williams celebration poster outside of their headquarters, is completetely unfair for LAT.
          1. 

             rodewulf (@rodewulf)
             3rd August 2021, 22:57

             What you say is completely irrelevant. The essence here is not the overall perfomance and comparison.

             You misread my comment. It’s not for taking something away from Latifi’s result to simply say he was aided by luck in comparision to his teammate, but the fact is that he drove way better this weekend than in the previous ones. You had been the one to invoke comparisions in first place, with your

             Of course LAT not a star because he finished above of our golden boy.

             remark. Had you only said Latifi made a good race and that’s an improvement, there wouldn’t a call for comparision. If you start a topic then you get feedback on the same topic, it’s not that complicated.
             1. 

                F1.Fan (@f1-fan)
                3rd August 2021, 23:37

                @rodewulf Although this message now from you makes much more sense, my initial message had no “comparison” hidden underneath it. We all know that RUS is a much better driver than LAT, at least with the data that we have so far. It is an irony that everybody was wishing for RUS to get a point with Williams, but this happened the same day that his teammate finished above him. This is what I am pointing. I am pretty sure that if the final result was RUS P7 and LAT P8, they’d both be “Stars” here, with the main focus on RUS of course. But now that LAT kind of stole the glory, “we better keep our mouth shut”. Or have a completely stupid poster as a Williams team, that has on it: “POSITION: RUS P08/LAT P07” instead of “POSITION: P07 LAT/P08 RUS”. Now that I think of it, I better use 10 LOL for this instead of 10 OMG. It is funny.
             2. 

                rodewulf (@rodewulf)
                3rd August 2021, 23:59

                Although this message now from you makes much more sense

                What an arrogantly put remark, congratulations!

                my initial message had no “comparison” hidden underneath it

                I think I’ve showed how it looked like it.

                We all know that RUS is a much better driver than LAT, at least with the data that we have so far. It is an irony that everybody was wishing for RUS to get a point with Williams, but this happened the same day that his teammate finished above him. This is what I am pointing.

                I agree. The luck factor played out in almost every aspect of the race, so Latifi has only to be proud of his result regardless of how much lucky he got. He could’ve squandered luck but he didn’t. It is really ironic that when the points came, they went more to Latifi than Russell, but the reason for the latter being looked more fondly is for such a long time being more likely to bring points. The Star Performers considers the results of the entire weekend and Russell out-qualified him again, albeit by a smakker margin than usual. So the hype on George might be greater than it should but it’s partially justified given his performances, except for the fact of him remaining a bad starter and some other minor issues.

                I am pretty sure that if the final result was RUS P7 and LAT P8, they’d both be “Stars” here, with the main focus on RUS of course.

                For the reasons state above, it might have happened. George gave more reasonable grounds to be looked as a promising driver, despite some flaws on him that people overlook but I agree they shouldn’t.

                But now that LAT kind of stole the glory, “we better keep our mouth shut”. Or have a completely stupid poster as a Williams team, that has on it: “POSITION: RUS P08/LAT P07” instead of “POSITION: P07 LAT/P08 RUS”. Now that I think of it, I better use 10 LOL for this instead of 10 OMG. It is funny.

                You reap what you sow. Latifi has been a pretty invisible driver most of the time, I know it might sound harsh but that’s the truth, probably the least famous driver from the current grid. But I don’t necessarily think he’s the worst or that he should quit Formula 1 altogether. He is a better starter than Russell and that played on his favour last race in a way or another, he got merit on that. So what I’m saying is that he still might improve and become more appreciated as a driver, a bit like Giovinazzi did, another driver who very few people knew or cared that certainly increased his number of fans this year.
             3. 

                F1.Fan (@f1-fan)
                4th August 2021, 0:43

                @rodewulf Dude, you can say that I am being arrogant again, but you are trying to analyze something that doesn’t need to be analyzed. I didn’t talk for skills, luck etc. or anything like this, as you do, in the first place. You better save it. I am going to say this again. The point here is how Racefans and Williams see/treat them. Credit where credit’s due. This simply didn’t happen. And it’s the third time, that I typed something that you ignored it. Williams poster had “POSITION: RUS P08/LAT P07” there instead of the correct “POSITION: LAT P07/RUS P08”. Ok then. Next time, when I am being asked for the results of a GP, I will start by saying “Kimi P16, MAZ P20 and STR P11. Seems about right.
    2. 

       rodewulf (@rodewulf)
       4th August 2021, 1:37

       @f1-fan How come you’re not talking about comparisions if you seem so resentful with the way Williams treat their drivers? Right or wrong, the reason for that contrast of distinctions is precisely the perceived difference of performance between the two drivers (somewhat overstated in George’s favour but in fact still notably significant). But I got it, the main point you want to make is not mostly about performance but on how Williams is being disrespectful or demeaning towards Nicholas. I don’t think that’s too much this case, the case your mentioned doesn’t seem to me as such a big deal, but who knows. You gave me the impression of making a storm out of a drizzle, but I won’t affirm it doesn’t mean anything. But what the man himself says about the way Williams regards him? That’s should be the starting point for that question.
       The image on this article isn’t like you say, at least. There is Nicholas P8 | George P9 and even a kind message on Nicholas’ board saying “Well done LAT”. So this one is way better, isn’t it?
       1. 

          F1.Fan (@f1-fan)
          4th August 2021, 15:36

          @rodewulf I just saw the “Well done LAT” thing. It was nice indeed. Maybe it isn’t that big of a deal afterall but when I saw it I got frustrated and I immediately thought “Wow, I wonder if Alpine had done the same, like P4 ALO, P1 OCO, how bad and unfair would it look”. This is what it is. No comparisons etc. Not the drivers themselves but the positions they got on track on a specific GP.
          1. 

             rodewulf (@rodewulf)
             4th August 2021, 16:42

             @f1-fan

             “Wow, I wonder if Alpine had done the same, like P4 ALO, P1 OCO, how bad and unfair would it look”.

             That’s an interesting example. Alonso has been better overall than Ocon this season and even in this race he made things even more impressive, Fernando arguably outperformed Esteban (by not big margin, of course) despite being outqualified and outraced in the weekend. The ironic thing here is that both the fastest lap time for Alpine in qualifying (Q2) and the stronger race pace + stunning defense worthy of DotD came from Fernando’s hands. Comparing to football, it felt like Esteban was the scorer of a nice goal and Fernando was the auhtor of a superb assist (in Messi’s style). On recent articles we saw Esteban’s face way more because he was the race winner, but the praise was slightly bigger on Fernando’s side. Do you feel it’s fair? In my opinion, it is.
             1. 

                F1.Fan (@f1-fan)
                4th August 2021, 20:39

                @rodewulf I voted for ALO myself as well, both here and on F1 site so no need to say more. But the fact that ALO helped big time OCO for the win, shouldn’t take away the glory from the person who finished in front of him. It’s very simple.
             2. 

                F1.Fan (@f1-fan)
                4th August 2021, 20:49

                @f1-fan And if you ask me: “Yeah, but you voted for ALO and you DID steal the glory of OCO”. Yeah, me and you are just average anon users on internet and NOT Racefans or Williams, who have thousands and millions of followers etc., thus big influence to others, and this way they can DELIBERATELY CREATE the opinions of the masses with their articles, photos etc.
             3. 

                rodewulf (@rodewulf)
                4th August 2021, 22:08

                @f1-fan I guess so. I think in this case Alpine valued Ocon’s win the way they should. The main glory was credited to him whilst the recognition of his team-mate who drove not short of the peak of his powers came somewhat after, albeit as much emphatically. But there’s a difference between Alpine Team’s role and RaceFans. A team should give full support for his driver at the same time being honest about his performance, so your worries about the team knowing how to value all his drivers were very sensible despite some overstatements. But here we have a technical analysis as main focus so it’s not their duty of pleasing or “being nice” to any driver. Unless it crosses the line of the respectful approaches, one race analyst is entitled to simply say which driver performed better and that’s it, not necessarily needing to make further remarks. But from the perspective of a Formula 1 team I think that would be harsh and counterproductive really, if they want teamwork to be nicely performed. So I wouldn’t see a problem if RaceFans published an article elaborating the reasonable perception that Alonso performed better than Ocon despite not winning. Of course, if no articles featured the GP winner in first place it’d be clear that the site is somewhat biased, but nothing that would stop our world from properly working, I guess.
16. 

    Mayrton
    4th August 2021, 8:09

    Best team radio must be Lewis’ one when fighting with Alonso: ‘He [Alonso] turned into me, that’s so dangerous at that speed’ hahahahaha. What a man! Next time they’d better give him some serious penalty points cause the message (nor his reflection) has not come across at all yet.
    1. 

       Michael (@freelittlebirds)
       4th August 2021, 11:41

       I think Lewis avoided a collision there but he barely managed to do so.
       1. 

          Mayrton
          4th August 2021, 13:17

          Yes, because again he stuck his nose where it shouldn’t be. I think his simulator work should, next to set up objectives, also set some wheel to wheel action objectives. There is no doubt Hamilton is a great racing driver but he is rusty from always leading from the front. Norris re-iterated that about both Mercedes cars. Lewis might not be at the level of Max, Charles and probably Alonso anymore but I do not see a reason why he couldnt get back to that level with mire practice.
    2. 

       rodewulf (@rodewulf)
       4th August 2021, 18:49

       Mayrton
       The funniest thing is actually LH44 fans reaction to all of this. Fernando fought extremely hard but there’s no reasonable way to put that as dangerous driving (with the incidents against Max being a little more complicated matter) unless they want to burn themselves as too afraid of competition. That’s the reason why Lewis himself lowered his tone after the race. But even then Sir Still-I-Whine still managed to whine (hence his moniker) about it being somewhat beyond the limits. The only thing fully within limits for him is a undefensive Leclerc and a puppy like Bottas.
17. 

    Broke1984 (@broke1984)
    4th August 2021, 21:21

    Gasly in stars but Vettel not? And barely a mention of Latifi. Gasly locked up massively in the first corner and only wasn’t wiped out by the carnage as he was too busy swerving away from crashing into Perez himself. Vettel drove a blinder as did Alonso and Ocon and Latifi drove a great race.

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