Max Verstappen and Lewis Hamilton crash, Monza, 2021

Hamilton and Verstappen under investigation after race-ending clash

2021 Italian Grand Prix

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Lewis Hamilton and Max Verstappen will face the stewards after colliding again during the Italian Grand Prix.

The pair tangled at the Rettifilio chicane on lap 26 of the race after the Mercedes driver came out of the pits slightly ahead of his rival. Verstappen attempted to pass Hamilton on the inside of the second part of the chicane, ran over the high kerb on the inside, and made contact with the Mercedes.

Verstappen’s car rode over the top of Hamilton’s Mercedes and ended up perched on top of it. His right-rear wheel passed alarmingly close to Hamilton’s crash helmet, damaging the roll hop and coming to a rest on the Halo.

“That’s what you get for not leaving me space,” exclaimed Verstappen before climbing out of his car. Hamilton’s camera was damaged in the collision and his response was not heard.

The stewards announced the collision will be investigated after the race.

The two championship contenders previously tangled at the British Grand Prix. Hamilton was given a 10-second time penalty for that collision, which put Verstappen out of the race.

Pictures: Verstappen and Hamilton collide

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2021 Italian Grand Prix

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Keith Collantine
Lifelong motor sport fan Keith set up RaceFans in 2005 - when it was originally called F1 Fanatic. Having previously worked as a motoring...

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161 comments on “Hamilton and Verstappen under investigation after race-ending clash”

  1. Where is my popcorn?
    This is going to be good!

    1. I predict plenty of mature, rational debate.

      1. Hahaha going to be fun, that’s for sure. 😂

      2. Post race Horner seems pretty sure Max is at risk – fully defensive

        Reply moderated
      3. Ricci is at fault !!
        It has put pepper on max’s red bull, Oil on Max and Lewis Pit Pistolls to maje them pit slowly, and he has put a spring on the sausage on the first chicane, to make Max jump on Lewis.

        What ? Why not constructive ? 😁
        And plausible 😁

        More seriously.
        Hallo is a really usefull thing !!

    2. That looked scary.
      I’m so happy they’ve got the halo on all cars.

  2. Racing incident, if anything Verstappen slightly more at fault. As they’re both out, I don’t think a penalty should be given, but can imagine a three place grid penalty.

    These guys really can’t allow each other anything, can they?

    1. Racing incident, move on.
      What Hamilton did in Silverstone is way more dangerous, + he was able to haul win so 10 sec penalty was meaningless for him.
      Punishing Max with grid penalty for the next race would be super harsh after Silverstone ruling.

      1. max was partly to blame for what happened at silverstone.
        the bottom line is,max expects others to go off track to avoid a collision with him,
        but he never wants to go off track to avoid a collision.
        as we saw earlier in the race,where lewis went off track to avoid a collision,
        and at other races in the season.

    2. If there’s any judgement I imagine they’ll say that it was Max who drove off the track, hitting the Sausage kerb and lost control. but I agree, racing incident. A net gain for RBR with points yesterday.

      1. Racing incident all the way. Only thing to come out of this is the halo was a great idea.

        Reply moderated
    3. Exactly. I saw other drivers take exactly the same line Hamilton took and the car trying to overtake on the outside bailed out. Hamilton was slightly ahead when he started his corner entry Max tried to force his way through a none existent space. Lap one at a different corner. Verstappen changed his line to force Hamilton out and Hamilton bailed out rather than force the situation.
      The FIA has been rewarding drivers who make late passing attempts round the outside, hence why Verstappen will feel he did nothing wrong.

    4. I bet in Silverstone you didn’t think Iike this, when Max was hospitalised

      1. Stop with this rubbish narrative. Verstappen was not ‘hospitalised’. He walked from the car and then was taken to hospital for full checks, which is standard for any high speed crash.

        He was in such a bad state that he was tweeting from the hospital. So he clearly was not that bad.

      2. He wasn’t. For the millionth time, he was taken for a checkup as a matter of routine. Stop making things up.

    5. Come on! I know emotions are running high and I agree about Max missing the junior formula but he IS now a top, top driver. Today was 60/40 Max fault but let’s keep it sensible… You wouldn’t lend him your car? Give your head a wobble.

    6. @freelittlebirds Looking at the lap 1, if that was given as a racing incident then this was a racing incident. Verstappen squeezed Hamilton on lap 1, and Lewis squeezed Max at T1. There was about 15cm of space between Hamilton’s left wheel and the line, and Max was very much alongside enough to earn some space. The catalyst in this incident was the sausage kerb. After that incident today and the Peroni incident in F3 here a couple of years ago, I think the powers that be need to have a proper look at the risks of them, especially at Monza. Without the sausage kerb, they bang wheels and that’s the end of it.

      (Also, for the record you are sounding a lot like the Verstappen fans who called the Silverstone incident a murder attempt by Hamilton when you say Lewis is lucky to be alive. I think both incidents were racing incidents made worse by the characteristics of the circuit at that point.)

      1. Very true, for the record I agree it looked slightly more verstappen fault here, halo proved time and time again it’s useful now, even though I was a critic at first; verstappen’s action is understandable after having the race ruined by a slow pit stop.

        1. So VER got the red mist because of his slow pit stop? Hmmm.

          For me Max was at least 60/40 at fault. I dont think a penalty is deserved BUT Lewis was penalised for a 60/40 incident at Silverstone. I wouldn’t mind either way.

    7. Absolutely biased, agree with the silverstone hospital comment.

      1. Just out of interest: you agree with which Silverstone hospital comment?
        – mentioning it here is irrelevant IMO;
        – arguing what the definition of ‘hospitalisation’ is, even less so.

    8. I Initially thought racing i cident but watched it again, this was max clearly at fault, he could only have passed on parts of the track that his car wasnt meant to be.

      The sausage kerb is there to prevent cars from doing or being exactly where it was. Ultimately his car was in a place it should not ha r been and the result of that and him co tinue to go for it, was getting bumped of those kerbs and into Hamilton. Its a slam dunk for me.

    9. @hahostolze wins for being the first to accurately predict the outcome!

  3. And exactly nobody is surprised that these two come together again. Both have seemingly decided not to put up with the antics of the other in this title fight.

    Perhaps some good can come of it. If nothing else, it’s highlighting some of the deteriorated driving standards in F1, where pushing people off in braking zones, nudging them off at the exits, and doubling down on the throttle whilst on off-track to keep the battles going has become commonplace. The FIA has a great chance next season with the new cars – and hopefully many more on track battles – to remind both the drivers and their own stewards that there are actually pretty clear rules about racing conduct.

  4. Cant defend or pass so they crash

  5. Hamilton’s tactics he used on other drivers don’t work with Verstappen. The same holds true from Verstappen’s perspective. I love it and they will continue to meet each other on track.

    A (unrighteous) penalty for Verstappen would be meaningless anyway. RedBull would just use the next race for the switch of the power unit.

    1. Completely agree. They’re going to have to give each other space or accept more of these incidents.

      1. Very fair overview. Hamilton’s done that trick a lot especially with Rosberg. Max has done it mostly to Hamilton ( lap one today, lap one in Imola etc) if you give that kind of racing then you have to accept it when it bites you.

        I don’t see how Max can complain when he put Lewis in the same position on lap one and expected him to back out of it.

        This is my only concern with Max, he just never backs out. Some call him a legend for it but I’d rather he races smarter sometimes.

        1. You have to understand verstappen had an 11 sec pit stop, got his race ruined, and the last thing he could allow was for hamilton to win and gain many points on him, was not fair.

          1. It wouldn’t be fair if his 11 second pit stop was down to a merc mechanic standing i the way – as it was, his own team knarfed up his pit stop and is entirely fair.

      2. I guess that’s the only realistic view on all of this. Both corners where they touched this year and went off, they could have made it together as there was enough room for two cars. The rest is personal interpretation of the viewer. Mine is that Lewis didnt give space twice now, so he is a bit of a naughty (pressured) man and loves playing the victim. He chose not to avoid Max at Silverstone and he chose to hold his corner at Monza while Max was trying to tango with him. At Monza Lewis was entitled to do so, at Silverstone he was borderline dangereous.

    2. That’s very true, if a penalty happens, which isn’t fair in my view, despite vers being slightly over 50% to blame, that’s a good response red bull can use.

  6. Racing incident to me and I doubt it will be the last between two drivers who both are known for not backing down in overtakes.

    Thankfully no injuries in the first hit. It was also pretty stupid of Hamilton to keep trying to drive as Verstappen was getting out. I’m glad he didn’t manage to move and risk the car falling.

    1. You think with a car on top of your head you can see what is going on inside the other car. It is easy to be smart when you are watching from a TV in your living room.

      1. So you think it is sensible to try to move your car when there is another car on top?

        1. How about Max walking off with Hamilton trapped in the car? The max fans bang on about sortsmanship all the time, so?

          1. Exactly.
            He didn’t bother to check if the driver was okay.

          2. @timeslides Hamilton was still driving the car and Max looked at him before he left. It showed it on TV.

          3. Sir was trying hard to escape on reverse, so obviously ok, and checking on him would have been misinterpreted as a distraction attempt. You are imnplictly comparing it to Silverstone, where Max was taken to the hospital. So much for the argument.

          4. I was disgusted that Max just walked off,Lewis could have been badly hurt. Such bad sportsmanship,shameful.

          5. Lewis was trying to wiggle his car from under max. So obviously he was ok. What was more dangerous was Lewis making max’car wobble as max tried to get out

    2. How about max spinning the wheels while his car was on top of Hamilton’s. Where you on with that or did you not see it.
      The bias of some fans is shocking.
      There was no way max could make the second apex as he was not even on the track. Sadly max should have pulled out but didn’t

  7. I think this is on Verstappen because the driver on the outside has to decide what the safe option is. 1/There’s room, I can continue through the corner OR 2/ there’s no room I have to turn left and cut the corner. We’ve seen other drivers making that decision throughout the race without crashing and I see no reason why Verstappen shouldn’t have been expected to make the same decision.

    1. I agree. 80% max’s fault. There just wasnt enough space to squeeze in a car. There is no gap there. Simple fact.
      Max was already on the green stuff on the outside of turn 1 before he lined up for turn 2. He tried hard to make a line that gave him a cars width but it just wasnt there

      1. Yes, he was on the green stuff because Lewis didn’t leave enough space between the lines (Verstappen vs Bottas Monza 2018. Max was in the wrong at the time). To try and make it stick was the only option. Little optimistic. Anyway, not to muck going on.

    2. I agree as well. If it were any other driver he was going up against, he would had avoided the collision. But because it was Lewis, he let the car stick. Lewis was in the exact same situation in lap 1, and took evasive action. Max just expects everyone to move aside for him, but he never does so himself. Him saying “that’s what you get when you don’t give any space”, was directed towards himself I sincerely hope.

    3. Interesting approach as the point of the corner where it happened it was max on the inside.missed that one did you?

      1. Lewis was on the inside going through turn one and they never made it into turn 2. Had they made it into turn 2 Max would have been on the inside, but as they didn’t he was still on the outside.

  8. Actually glad to see Verstappen getting more of the blame so far on this one. I’d call it a racing incident, but I said that for Silverstone too, so a 3 place penalty would probably be the fair outcome.

    Every other driver including Hamilton on lap one took the hit, lost position and bounced over the kerb. Max had time to back out but didn’t. Has to be more blame on him and actually maybe a grid drop would help him realise he’s not in the right to do moves like that.

    1. Although I agree that Verstappen was to blame here —whilst being a strong admirer of his abilities— I would believe a grid penalty would be rather harsh for this particular incident. Moreover, in hindsight, Lewis not getting a grid penalty for the Silverstone incident would then be strange because it would mean people do start considering the outcome of the crash —and not the actual mistake itself— as part of the penalty attribution.

      1. Fully agree, but Hamilton was able to serve his penalty in the race. Had he DNF it would have been converted to a 3 or 5 place drop instead.

        Racing incident and move on is probably the fair outcome, but something to just calm Verstappen is really needed. In a weird way I think a grid drop might actually help him. He’s at risk of throwing away this Championship by over driving with Hamilton when he really doesn’t need to.

      2. Hamilton got a 10 second time penalty for the Silverstone incident. You’d have wanted him to get punished for 2 races? Why not 3?

  9. Great, both don’t give an inch. Racing! Bottas going strong!

  10. Bit more on Max this one.

    1. 5 second penalty then.

      1. Indeed, if he gets a grid drop, which is 3 and 5 (the most lenient ones) it’s due to bad luck due to them retiring, if he had managed to stay in the race he’d have had ofc a meaningless penalty, which however depends on circumstances, you see here that perez lost 2 places due to a 5 sec penalty as there had been a SC earlier.

  11. Crashtappen strikes again

  12. Hamilton has nothing to fear in this investigation. He only needs to point on lap 1 situation. If anything Verstappen is under the risk, but I cant see him getting a penalty of any sort. He was just lucky his ride over the kerb managed to take out Hamilton with him.

    1. There were many other cars that took the same line Hamilton did when the other car is coming from behind and for example, Leclerc bailed out. Perez also in different incidents etc. Assuming they were exactly side by side or Verstappen slighly ahead, then he will demand equal rights to the corner. In this case Verstappen was coming from behind after the first appex and trying to lay claim.

  13. Hope the Angry Max gets a penalty. Immature driver. He became a torpedo looking for a target after that botched pitstop.

    1. I can’t possible guess who your favourite driver is. It was a racing incident, onto the next one

    1. how is this a racing incident? if Hamilton’s car wasn’t there VER would have just ended up in the gravel. he could never have made the corner

      1. ? Have you ever actually driven a car around a track? He already made the first corner, so his speed is in line with the next as well. People do not understand that Max brakes more early, not as hard and then has a much, much higher mid corner speed than anyone. That’s why he is the only one that is fast not being in a Mercedes. It is very simple: two cars can go through these corners as shown by many other drivers. Lewis decided it to become a one car only corner, not giving way to the other. Since Max came from further back you could argue it was already Lewis corner hence Max predominantly to blame. But make no mistake, if Lewis wanted to avoid it he could have.

        1. Why should Lewis avoid it? Read other comments Lewis into and out of turn 1 was in the correct position Max should have acted maturely and backed out before turn 1. All other drivers in the same situation bailed out and went over the sausage curve and gave up the place to continue racing and look for an overtake later. Whether Max breaks earlier or not it’s irrelevant, Ricciardo breaks later than most it’s irrelevant. The problem for Max was that he knew the Merc was faster in this race. With Sochi coming up another perceived Merc track would have potentially pulled Lewis further ahead in the championship. Call it a racing incident if you like but Max knew what he was doing. Heard very little from Marko and Horner apart from saying it’s a 50/50 as they know Max was at fault for this accident.

          Reply moderated
  14. To me a racing incident again, both drivers going for it and not giving any room, and then an absolutely bizarre one in a million random bump sending Verstappen’s car surprisingly up and over. The halo saving another life again.

    What disappoints me is Verstappen walking off and apparently not even checking on Hamilton at all. That’s not on, even with the animosity between them you check the other guy is ok. This just makes me sad if/when he becomes a champion because that’s really soured me on the guy poor form and I hope he apologises. (This is nothing like the apparent disgust Max had about Hamilton celebrating, long after everyone knew Max was out the car and pretty much fine).

    1. Dutchguy (@justarandomdutchguy)
      12th September 2021, 15:37

      He probably knew Hamilton was doing okay because the latter was still trying to get out of the gravel trap whilst Verstappen wasn’t even out of the car.

      1. Hamilton had a car on his head. Perhaps the chap under the car should be the priority.

        1. Dutchguy (@justarandomdutchguy)
          12th September 2021, 16:04

          Hey. I’m not saying he’s right. I’m just guessing why he might have done that.

    2. I think you’re reading a bit too much into it. Camera weren’t that close, but we could all see Hamilton trying to reverse out of the situation. So Max might just as well have established him to be alright.

  15. Racing incident.

    The worst thing about this is that there will be nothing else said about anything for the next 2 weeks+++ Already Silverstone has crept into the conversation etc etc…

  16. Hamilton did not need to leave Verstappen any room at the Rettifilio for the same reason Verstappen didn’t need to give Hamilton any at the Roggia on lap one: The attacking driver wasn’t far enough alongside.

    1. @Keithcollantine this, coupled with the fact that the Rettifilio being more of a switchback chicane than the Roggia, is why I feel that Verstappen is more at fault here, and compares unfavourably for Verstappen. Hamilton backed out at Roggia because he should and could. Verstappen didn’t back out because he couldn’t, but should have.

    2. +1 Hamilton was well ahead going into T1 and can therefore pick his line. Max had a big lunge and took too much speed into the corner to be partly along side. The kerb didn’t help, but ultimately Max had time to get out of it and chose not to. I see it as a racing incident but wouldn’t be surprised by a grid drop for Max.

    3. @keithcollantine What actually is the standard for being alongside? I hear conflicting versions of either having your front wheel level or past the rear wheel of the car in front being enough to earn space, or having to have your front wheel level or ahead of the other car’s front wheel.

      But yeah, I think it’s a racing incident made worse by the high kerb

    4. Be fair.. Max was on fully warmed up tyres and put it alongside… The next corner is left so he had the better position. He would have made the corner so didn’t have to take the escape. Hamilton chose to try and squeeze but with Max that will never work.

      I would be very surprised if telemetry did not show that Hamilton let off the brake early to run deeper. But he was too late. Max was there and couldn’t go anywhere. Both didn’t give the other an inch and they touched. It’s basically the same story as Silverstone. Hamilton choosing to miss the ideal line in order to defend.. just the move was unsuccessful and Hamilton was out of the race too.
      If anything this was more a racing accident then Silverstone was. So any penalty either way would be unfair.

    5. The FIA is responsible for Max thinking he can lay claim to space at that corner. They have in the past penalised drivers wrongly for the outcome of such moves that most driver believe it is a right to have a cars width everywhere.
      The criteria stewards used in the past was the line at the edge as a wall to determine culpability. In recent times they just claim everything was not leaving enough room so drivers have become embolded and throw themselves into impossible situations, even coming from behind or entering the corner late and expect a favourable outcome.

    6. THANK YOU. exactly this. Racing incident but verstappen could have backed out, given the place back, and done a leclerc on bottas type move into the next chicane

    7. Spot on Keith, that’s why I think Verstappen was not smart on this move.
      (He would have get Hamilton on the next turn, as He had warmer tires).
      This may be ruled as driving incident IMHO.

      Reply moderated
      1. On the contrary. I think Verstappen was actually quite clever here just like Hamilton was in Silverstone. If they didn’t get the move done in that moment, the possibility of them overtaking in the remainder of the race would be minimal. In both instances the person behind had less to lose.

    8. I agree and think Verstappen should get a 20 place grid penalty for next race for dangerous driving, because he could have avoided the incident, but deliberately chose not to and almost killed Lewis in the process. He has been driving like this all year and won’t stop unless he is being corrected. He will kill someone someday.

      1. Watch another sport is my advice to you.

    9. (@keithcollantine)
      Do not agree. Look at lap 1 same corner Hamilton /Norris.
      Exactly the same situation. Lewis left more room and as a result had a better exit.
      So Lewis did this all by himself. Max could have been less optimistic, but you know if there is space max will use it. M

    10. Fully agree it was a choice of Lewis to close the door. Two cars can fit through there. Lewis owned up to the corner (which he is allowed to). The outcome then shouldnt be a surprise to him.

  17. You can’t force a car off track in one incident when the driver is fully alongside and then demand space when you are behind on turn in. Verstappen needs to learn when to back out and live to fight another day.

    1. +1 it’s not the first time he’s done it either Imola, Spain and lap one again today.

      1. Please get a racing text book or something. You have all been put to sleep by the Mercedes processional racing of the last decade. This is a sport where the drivers actually have to race and battle eachother. The key is to challenge, not to back out of everything or close the door on another driver. Keep the fight going. Lewis just wont do it since his entitlement and arrogance is in the way of his own racing. Lewis has had his titles presented on a plate the last decade. People and Lewis himself forgot what this sport is about.

    2. This brings back Schumacher and Senna memories.
      The thing is: if he had backed out he might not have gotten another chance to pass in this race and would lose points to Hamilton.
      The actual outcome has 2 benefits:
      – no points lost in this race
      – assert dominance over Hamilton. What will they do next time (because there will be a next time)?

      I don’t know if he has achieved dominance, or if he even thought of all these things in that flash moment. Judging from his comment immediately afterwards, he may have.

    3. Well, that’s not actually true, Lewis was not alongside in the corner, he was before it but was losing ground. I think this argument holds for their Imola incident where I think Max should’ve left Lewis more room. In contrast, Max was almost completely alongside Lewis for the left-hander. Ironically, Lewis left Max room into the right-hander where Max was further back, but didn’t when he got alongside for the left-hander. This is simply a racing incident where each could have done more to avoid it, but you can’t really blame either one.

      1. I respond to the comments on here very infrequently, however I have to say you must have seen a different view of the race to me. The only time Max was “almost completely alongside”, which can also be seen in the photos of the crash in the article is after Max cut across the kerbs.

        Reply moderated
    4. I would rather say Lewis needs to step up his game and keep things fair. Two cars can fit through there. It was Lewis choice and only his to turn this into an accident. He was entitled to the choice, given Max was late but could have easily embrace and celebrate the moment and battle instead of causing a collision again. He robs us of goods fights way too many times

  18. Racing incident, maybe on Lewis side if you had to choose one, but still nothing bad. Just one of those things…

    Moving on…

  19. Max cut that corner earlier in the race because there is no room but he knows it will cause him to lose the place. He was 100% at fault. He was incensed by his slow pit stop. Of course once again the horrendous pit crew at Mercedes cost Hamilton the lead and avoidance of this with a 4.2 stop.

    1. How about verstappen’s 11 sec pit stop? Hamilton’s was good in comparison.

  20. Max needs to hope that the stewards don’t take a dim view of his radio comment following the crash. The ‘That’s what you get…’ one.

    Otherwise, racing incident, more against Verstappen who looking at his angle was always going to have to back out due to his line -I think he’d have bounced over the kerbs regardless., but really see no need for a penalty either way.

    1. It does suggest there was adegree of intent to his actions i.e. he did it on purpose. I’m not saying he did, but it could easily be interpreted that way.

    2. I feel the comment’s mostly about the perception of Max that Lewis wouldn’t give an inch after T1… all in all a racing incident (at most Max’s responsability 60/40), but also a thumb to Lewis’s eye about him complaining about Max not giving an inch (ie, Silverstone crash)…

    3. These are his first penalty points, they know he is a good racer. It only goes wrong since Lewis is to stubborn to actually race Max

  21. Dutchguy (@justarandomdutchguy)
    12th September 2021, 15:43

    Intresting to see them both adopting the “back out or we crash approach” and promptly plowing eachother of the track. I’d say neither of them is much more at fault than the other. Both erred. Verstappen was being as overaggressive as he was a few years ago and Hamilton simply did not leave space on the track. Just happy that this opened the door for McLaren’s 1-2

    Just one thing that I don’t see anyone talking about. Hamilton was still trying to get out of the gravel whilst verstappen was in his car / coming out of the car. seems unneccesarily unsafe. Imagine he did get himself unstuck and suddenly yanked away from under the Red Bull.

    1. Indeed, didn’t understand why he wanted to move his car. Did he really thing he could keep in driving?
      Must have been some serieus red mist before his eyes then.

      1. Obviously in such a situation you try to continue when your opponent is out, could be decisive points, see senna vs prost, however his rear wing was damaged, but there was also a safety car, so you never know, takes a few mins to repair.

    2. The door to the McLaren 1-2 was open already, as both were in front of the pair even before they crashed.

      1. Dutchguy (@justarandomdutchguy)
        12th September 2021, 19:15

        Hamilton was on Norris’ tail and Verstappen on Ricciardo’s. had the pitstops gone normally and neither had crashed, I think both could have leapfrogged their respective McLarens. Hamilton certainly should have the race pace to pull that off.

        1. 1. Their pitstops didn’t go normally, before the crash. So again, the door to a McLaren 1-2 had already opened beforehand.
          2. Max needed a perfect pitstop to even challenge Ricciardo. According to AWS there was only a 23% chance of Max jumping Ricciardo.
          3. Both Hamilton and Max had tremendous difficulty overtaking the McLaren’s. Both on Saturday and Sunday. Lando also said he had the pace to keep them behind if they hadn’t crashed.

  22. The fact nobody profits makes it less important for the championship.
    But a bit over optimistic by both.
    So racing incident.
    And halo still saves the day.

    1. Lol, you know its Maxs fault when this guy calls it a racing indecent.

      1. +1 for you for this comment. :D

      2. You mean the guy who strangely never comments when there is a power cut in Milton Keynes, where the Red Bull media centre is located, despite living on here and other F1 forums as if it’s his full time job or something. Huh.

        1. That must be the one :)
          Member of other satanic cults or just blinded fan? :)

  23. Hamilton does after silverstone, ahahaha!

  24. I was hoping for better… very naive of me. Neirgerdriver is giving any quarter, as you would expect in such a tight battle with these Elite drivers.
    Lewis often has the sense to back out of incidents when he is attacking (see lap 1 and earlier this season with Max) but has decided, quite rightly, to not give Max an inch. 2 top drivers going at it. It’s great to see. For what it’s worth today was 60/40 max fault. Not sure it’s worth a penalty but Lewis got one for a 60/40 at Silverstone

    1. @deanr I agree this one was a racing incident, but I don’t know how you believe Silverstone was 60/40. There was undeniably enough space on the inside at Copse.

      1. Yeh…I’m not revisiting Silverstone. The argument bored me to death in the end. For me Silverstone was 60/40 on Lewis. Today was 60/40 on Max. 2 drivers not giving an inch… although Lewis is far more inclined to give way. Max will NEVER give way. He has been the better driver this year but partly due to this approach he is not as far ahead as he maybe should be.

  25. When Lewis is slightly more to blame – throw the book at him, its murder!

    When Max is definitely more to blame – racing incident.

    1. There’s not really much bias from your average fans. It’s just the usual idiots who only think in extremes when their favourite driver is involved. All the drivers have fans like that and it’s worse online.

      Reply moderated
  26. As a fan, I was very disappointed that the championship race was cut short in such a way.

    I really can’t see why the car on the racing line should give way to the car attempting to overtake. If you’re the overtaking, surely it’s obvious that you have to complete the move without hitting the car in front? That’s certainly the rules in sailing — the overtaking boat keeps clear.

    1. Try to get the recent FIA stewards to sail with that idea.
      They’ve all gone video game mode and penalise drivers for impossible acts of others.

  27. This is what happens when your Boss tells you that you can do no wrong, funniest part of all this is watching the Max fans back peddling and throwing tangents out there. If this was the other way round the flood of ‘past it’ and ‘retire now’ posts would of been monumental.

    1. There’s lots of ‘but Silverstone!’ going on isn’t there… :-)

  28. Everyone knows the (lack of) quality in you replies by now. Go find a hobby that you can comprehend a little.

  29. Racing incident. Hamilton fan-boys are gonna cry like Max fan-boys cried in Silverstone. I guess at least here Max didn’t drive off into sunset with all the points.

    1. Yes, that’s what happens, hamilton’s luck again.

  30. I just recall that Perez after “being given no space,” his words, not only did the guy inside not get a penalty, Perez got a time penalty for cutting the corner to avoid contact. We saw over and over in this race that in line with f1 practice if you do not have the corner on the outside, you assume the risk. Maybe f1 should revisit this idea.

    But in this case I think verstappen said, I’m going through no matter what. Just like Hamilton in silverstone said I’ve got a wheel in there and here I come. Since neither guy is backing down in these situations and have fairly equal cars this won’t be the last this season we have this situation. In this case Hamilton came a few inches from having his helmet cracked open so I hope it doesn’t go too far.

  31. My two cents on the issue, as someone who doesn’t like Verstappen, is that it was a racing incident, much like the opening lap blows between the two at Imola turn 1, Spain turn 1 and today at Turn 4. Verstappen was alongside but never nosed ahead until after the apex. In the previous three incidents, all that was different was that Hamilton was on the outside, bailed, and lived to fight another day. It was as much a racing incident as the three earlier examples were, so if those went unpenalized I expect this one to be more or less the same).

    And both likely would have continued had the sausage kerb not been there to spit Max into Lewis’ path. Regardless of any of our opinions, I’m glad the two are okay, especially Lewis after the rollhoop got crunched and Max’s wheel bounced off his helmet.

  32. Go fly a kite. This was kids stuff when it comes to safety. If you don’t understand, just don’t comment.

    1. Car smashing over the roll hoop and halo of another is not kids stuff. This gate keeping attempt fails.

  33. In terms of the incident itself I think it was nothing more than a racing incident with no further action necessary.

    I will however add that I think they need to remove these sausage kerbs from the inside apex’s & go back to the kerb design they had at the Monza chicanes before 2009. I’ve never liked these sausage kerbs, Not simply because of how they can launch cars but also because I think they remove some of the challenge & take away some of the different lines we used to see with the prior kerb designs where they allowed you to open up the corners a bit more for the exit.

  34. This was on Lewis Hamilton. He didn’t leave any space when Verstappen was clearly alongside him, and on his inside for the next turn. He pushed Verstappen onto the sausage kerbs which ultimately caused the race ending flip. I’d still say racing incident, I believe the corner could have been made for both cars still without the car on the inside leaving the track had the kerb not been there.

    1. Dutchguy (@justarandomdutchguy)
      12th September 2021, 16:08

      This was on Lewis Hamilton

      Is it really? Verstappen could have backed out earlier and Hamilton shoudl have left more space. that’s why it’s a racing incident. both were at fault.

    2. Max did the same Hamilton on T4 lap 1. But Hamilton had the good sense to cut the corner properly and avoid a crash. Max,on the other hand…

      1. @timeslides To me, it looks like VER knows he’s running out of the road and that he’s going to lose the position to Hamilton by taking to the run-off/sausage kerbs. He doesn’t want that, so he takes him out by going straight at T2.

    3. I don’t know where you have to leave enough space for a driver who is behind you.
      Hamilton turned in first before Verstappen. When Hamilton was ahead on lap one Verstappen also changed his normal racing line and drove him off track. Hamilton was on the race line and ahead.

      1. I mean scroll up and look at the pictures, they show you are lying. Max Verstappen is fully alongside Lewis Hamilton into the chicane. Quite unlike Silverstone, when the #44 car drove into the side of the #33 car with barely a front wing alongside.

  35. 2 drivers going for the title giving no quarter. A racing incident for me.

    Although I will say, Verstappen could’ve done more to avoid it. I think if there’s one area he can still improve on, it’s that he needs to start playing the long game a bit more in this title fight. It was a role reversal from lap 1, but Hamilton yielded and gave up the place. Considering that Red Bull went into this race talking about damage limitation, they probably would’ve happily taken a finish just one place behind Hamilton.

    Then again, it’s obviously better for his championship this way, so I guess Red Bull will still be content with this result.

    1. It was dangerous to let hamilton go past, I think ricciardo had great chances to keep whoever behind, however if by any chance hamilton had managed to win could’ve gained a lot of points.

  36. 100% racing incident.

    The only reason it doesn’t happen more often is that normally, someone gives way – the guy on the inside concedes and gives up the second part of the chicane, or the guy on the outside skips over the kerbs (like Hamilton on Lap 1 at the next chicane). This one happened because neither of them backed down, and I’m 90% sure that’s because of who they were racing.

    Verstappen would have bailed left over the kerbs instead of driving into a closing wedge if he was up against anyone other than his title rival… equally, I think Hamilton would have given space and lived to fight another day if he’d been racing someone with less to lose.

  37. Crazy to think that this was only possible because both teams botched their pitstops. What are the chances! It’s a shame cause I think we could have had a great fight between the two, but it probably still would have ended in contact… it’s all getting a bit Lewis and Felipe 2011 spec where they just keep running into each other week in, week out. The only difference is these coming togethers are going to decide the championship! So hard to apportion blame. I’m glad I’m not a steward for this meeting. Neither driver wants to give an inch which I guess is what we want to see! Glad they were both OK and the halo proved its value yet again.

  38. Hamilton has decided that he will fight for every point now that he doesn’t have the advantage of the fasted car. Max will do what he has done many times. Just race hard and assume the other guy will give him room. Smart racing has been thrown out of the window this season and other people can pick up the pieces. Though Ricciardo would have won this anyway, so I don’t want to take anything away from his victory.

    1. But he did had the fastest car, by far. M

  39. Lewis leaving the pits moved back to the racing line while Max was already there and Lewis pushed Max wide even before the turn.
    Then compare the line from Lewis in lap 1 with Norris versus his line with Max. Clearly Lewis knew Max was there and decided to push him onto the curbs with as result that Max landed on top of Lewis.

    At best a racing incident but Lewis over aggression same as in Silverstone is in my view the reason for the crash.

    1. All this ‘but silverston’ talk – where Max was also to blame in part – is a distraction and getting very tired.

  40. From an adjudication point of view, racing incident. One driver isn’t enough to blame over the other to warrant a penalty, and both team principles are clearly not going to argue it strongly and seem ready to move on.

    The only observation I’d make is that Max doesn’t bail out, even when the probability of success is low. That was clearly demonstrated when they Sky analysed a series of similar incidents earlier in the season (and this race), which showed Hamilton typically backing out. If we ignore the possibility that he decided to try and take them both out (I don’t think either of them think that way), then he must have known he was going into a move with a low chance of success. He would have been wiser to bail out.

  41. Racing incident, no penalty required. As was in Silverstone, but for faulty stewarding.

  42. If you rewatch the start of the race Giovinazzi (VER) and Leclerc (HAM) had the same situation at turn 1and Charles leave enough space for GIO and still was in front in the second chicane.

    1. (@doctorlovesexy)
      Just look at first lap Norris/Hamilton and notice the exact same move. But there Lewis gave space and as a result a better exit.

  43. @freelittlebirds This kind of comment doesn’t belong here.

    1. @balue it’s the comment of all time, unfortunately. So, yeah, if the comment of all time doesn’t belong here, then you’d be right.

  44. Hamilton didn’t leave enough room so was at fault, but won’t get a penalty as they didn’t give to Verstappen when he did the same to Hamilton on lap 1. Of course they are more lenient on L1, and causing a collision is more serious, but IMO both should get a penalty as pushing off track is not sporting.

  45. Verstappen collided with the kerb, then got ejected towards Hamilton, the question, I think, is why? If he got squeezed, then it is racing incident, if he did it by his own, then he should be penalized. I think it was the first option.

  46. @freelittlebirds FIA should be upholding driving standards and Max has violated them quite a few times but they won’t do it. He’s too quick and shiny for Formula 1 to do anything about it.

  47. We await the stewards. What makes this one interesting is the proximity of the left turn. Hamilton left space for Max to turn right but denied him space to turn left on the inside, so really, similar to lap1:turn 4, Verstappen should’ve yielded.

    But again in that situation if they both dnf, as they did, nobody wins but Max maintains the advantage. Hamilton still has to play catch-up. Because of that I can’t call this a racing incident.

  48. I feel Max needs to learn Lewis is not on his level. Lewis can’t race as close as Max can, he simply doesn’t have the skill or choses deliberately not to race. Lewis is indifferent to the how he wins. Max would love to race Lewis but Lewis just won’t let him and choses 2 times now to rather crash than battle Max. Lewis deprives us from great battles. He really needs to step up his game or please go to a backmarker team so we can put next generation people in that phenomenal car.

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