Why Verstappen may not be the last driver to take an engine change penalty in Sochi

58 comments on “Why Verstappen may not be the last driver to take an engine change penalty in Sochi”

1. 

   Kribana (@krichelle)
   24th September 2021, 21:00

   This would be great for Mercedes to do, but people will be raising up reverse grids again, because if Hamilton takes a penalty, that would be 3 fast paced cars starting at the back in Leclerc, Verstappen and Hamilton.
   1. 

      Esploratore (@esploratore1)
      25th September 2021, 2:27

      Yes, which makes for great racing.
   2. 

      Ajaxn
      25th September 2021, 13:40

      Does this mean Verstappen still has his 3 place penalty to serve?
      1. 

         David
         25th September 2021, 20:35

         No. The 4th engine penalty nullifies it
2. 

   Proesterchen (@proesterchen)
   24th September 2021, 21:22

   Anyone else wondering about Otmar’s stance?

   ‘We saw the opportunity. We saw others going for it. We chose not to.’ How is this F1-level thinking?

   Aston Martin are not competitive. Why aren’t you even trying to take advantage if an opportunity may present itself?
   1. 

      Jon (@talus21)
      24th September 2021, 21:35

      I think this probably had a lot more to do with the F1 thinking of not revealing their hand. That may have been all the pace the car had, but Otmar didn’t want to say that.
   2. 

      Alianora La Canta (@alianora-la-canta)
      25th September 2021, 11:10

      @proesterchen It’s F1-level thinking to go for what is more likely to benefit the team. This is different depending on the team’s position (does it need to score points consistently or does it need 1-2 banner results)?

      There’s an opportunity cost to taking some opportunities and this is one of them.
3. 

   Green Flag (@greenflag)
   24th September 2021, 21:33

   Mercedes will not let a fairly certain Hamilton win at Sochi slip away by starting at the back. Starting at the back with Max would just mean yet another crash. (Erikje should screaming at me in 3, 2, 1….)
   1. 

      Esploratore (@esploratore1)
      25th September 2021, 2:28

      Now THAT is more likely, it’s a mercedes track, so verstappen would gain an advantage from a double retirement even when they’re outside the points.
   2. 

      Alianora La Canta (@alianora-la-canta)
      25th September 2021, 11:11

      @greenflag On the other hand, if Bottas is likely to need an engine change, now would be a good time to arrange it.
4. 

   David BR (@david-br)
   24th September 2021, 21:44

   This sounds like one of those cunning strategy ideas that backfires spectacularly. Mercedes should just net the points and worry about an engine change if and when it becomes necessary.
   1. 

      lucifer (@lucifer)
      24th September 2021, 22:03

      i agree
5. 

   MB (@muralibhats)
   24th September 2021, 21:58

   Its Russels job to take out Max tomorrow.
   1. 

      MB (@muralibhats)
      24th September 2021, 21:59

      Race i mean
   2. 

      DaveW (@dmw)
      25th September 2021, 1:20

      Dinner and a movie then?
      1. 

         MB (@muralibhats)
         25th September 2021, 3:07

         🙂🙂🙂 good one

         Maybe. Just maybe 😅
   3. 

      Hiland (@flyingferrarim)
      25th September 2021, 14:30

      @muralibhats
      This comment didn’t age well!
6. 

   racerdude7730 (@racerdude7730)
   24th September 2021, 22:08

   I hope so bc if they both start at the back it will be fun to watch them come through the pack of cars. I wish we had a higher chance of rain Sunday but hey at least Sat will be fun
7. 

   erikje
   24th September 2021, 22:13

   The reliability of the merc engine this year is cause for concern.
   The Honda is almost on par and the merc engine for the first time has to perform on its peak power.
   So its for sure Lewis will need a new engine soon. The new engine Bottas received seems to unlock more power and it will cement the position of fastest car for the remaining races.
   If Sochi is the right spot to do ?
   He will start always in front of Max but maybe behind Charles.
   So lewis under maximum stress levels does not seems smart. He is already breaking up and his mistakes are mounting..
   1. 

      Swifty
      24th September 2021, 23:40

      You did so well, until the last paragraph.

      Kudos for trying
      1. 

         Green Flag (@greenflag)
         24th September 2021, 23:48

         Erikje always gets in a dig at Lewis. She can’t help herself.
         1. 

            Robbie (@robbie)
            25th September 2021, 2:15

            @greenflag Lol unlike your comments akin to the third one made on this topic.
         2. 

            Esploratore (@esploratore1)
            25th September 2021, 2:30

            You must have a crazy dutch (?) knowledge, I don’t know enough dutch to tell that’s a female name.
      2. 

         erikje
         25th September 2021, 14:14

         And as expected, Lewis cracked again.
         It is getting embarrassing for him.
         Again, Russell starting in front of the “man” Lewis.
   2. 

      kcrossle (@kcrossle)
      25th September 2021, 1:14

      I knew this comment must be erikje before even looking :-)
   3. 

      Balue (@balue)
      25th September 2021, 7:19

      Lol at the Hamilton fans attacking the person behind the comment. Seems it’s all they know how.
      1. 

         F1oSaurus (@f1osaurus)
         25th September 2021, 10:28

         @balue ROFLCOPTER at the irony of you attacking the person behind the comments.
         1. 

            Balue (@balue)
            25th September 2021, 19:38

            @f1osaurus Another desperate lie from you. It’s always you Hamilton fans. I will occasionally push back on the personal attacks to try and get a stop to it, but I don’t go around making comments about the poster on a topical post. That’s what you do.
            1. 

               F1oSaurus (@f1osaurus)
               27th September 2021, 7:37

               @balue Lie? Here is the evidence attacking the posters behind the comments:

               Lol at the Hamilton fans attacking the person behind the comment. Seems it’s all they know how.

               Seriously dude, how do you even manage to switch on your device to access this site?
            2. 

               Balue (@balue)
               27th September 2021, 9:22

               @f1osaurus I’m pushing back against personal attacks, and that’s the personal attack? Jeez, lol..

               You are really having trouble with basic logic, although we knew that already.

               Maybe the internet is not for you. It will just be endless embarrassments.
            3. 

               F1oSaurus (@f1osaurus)
               27th September 2021, 9:50

               @balue

               I’m pushing back against personal attacks

               By doing exactly the same you cry about other people doing.

               It’s cute that you actually think you have a point. The irony is just gushing.
      2. 

         erikje
         25th September 2021, 13:14

         Hamilton fans hate competition.
8. 

   RandomMallard (@)
   24th September 2021, 22:18

   I think whether Hamilton takes a new PU or not depends entirely on 1 condition imo: whether Quali goes ahead tomorrow, and whether the race is run in different conditions. If that is the case, I wouldn’t be surprised if Merc or RB go all in and take a pit lane start, allowing them to switch wet/dry setups at will.
   1. 

      AJ (@asleepatthewheel)
      25th September 2021, 2:50

      I don’t think they’ll start from the pit lane at all, simply because they are likely to start ahead of Max in P19 even after engine change.
      1. 

         F1oSaurus (@f1osaurus)
         25th September 2021, 10:30

         @asleepatthewheel Behing ahead of Verstappen that far back on the grid just means Verstappen will have amasive opportunity for a “we crash or you let me pass” again.
         1. 

            Madjaya
            25th September 2021, 11:59

            Max has to survive racing with CL, his childhood nemesis first.
9. 

   Keith Campbell (@keithedin)
   24th September 2021, 22:26

   If they were seriously considering changing Hamilton’s power unit, they now have a strong incentive to do so this weekend, as Verstappen’s points-scoring potential is already seriously compromised

   Has anyone from Mercedes said something like this, because I can’t wrap my head around how that makes sense logically. Copying my comment from another article:

   Logically speaking, Hamilton taking an engine change penalty now doesn’t make sense to me. When your main rival is starting from the back then you know you have a very good chance of winning the race and bagging 25 points. If you have to take a penalty, doesn’t it make more sense to take that penalty on a weekend when your rivals are strong and you are more likely to score maybe 15 or 18 points instead of 25? There is bound to be at least one more race this season where practice shows that Redbull have the advantage over Mercedes, and presuming it happens on a track where overtaking isn’t too difficult, that would seem like a better opportunity for Mercedes to take any penalties.
   1. 

      Keith Campbell (@keithedin)
      24th September 2021, 22:57

      Thinking about this some more. I guess taking your penalty at the same race as your rival means you aren’t leaving them with the potential of winning the race, whereas if you take the penalty later then your rival has a good chance to win when you do. But given that you are also taking away your own best chance to win i don’t think the trade off is worth it.

      To me it always seems better to take the penalty on a race you are likely not to win anyway, as Max has done. Then you are giving up only say 18 points for a 2nd place (minus whatever you recover from the back of the grid), rather than 25. If you take the penalty on one of your weaker tracks, your rival will likely win whether you took the penalty or not, so you are not giving them any extra benefit.
      1. 

         jff
         24th September 2021, 23:09

         Your reply and reasoning makes sense. But the main reason I suggested this was to take advantage of the different conditions expected for Saturday and Sunday.
         Talking a penalty now allows you to focus on a dry race set-up.

         That other weekend which normally would suit Mercedes better will probably not have that offsetting benefit.
      2. 

         TdM (@tdm)
         24th September 2021, 23:39

         This is pretty much my thought process as well. I don’t really see why folks seem to think it’s a good idea.

         This way you would be near the back, it’ll be cramped at T1, you can’t back out and stay safe because there are fast cars behind that will attack you, so high risk start, you give up a practically guaranteed 25 points which you should never do.

         Bag a penalty on a track where you weren’t going to win and you should get a nice safe start, easy through the first corner and then mind your own business carving through the back markers on an opposite strategy. You’ll lose some points but not as many and you have a race safe from risky rivalry battles amongst slow cars. You’ll probably lose very little in the end.
         1. 

            Cronies
            25th September 2021, 6:02

            Or you could ask, Merc have a big advantage and it is one of the easier circuits to overtake SO could Hamilton still win it from the back?

            Who can beat him:
            Bottas
            Perez
            Norris

            Less likely;
            Saint or Danny

            Obviously Bottas is not a real obstacle. He would be racing Norris and Perez…. chances are above 50% he would still get the win.

            New engine, win, massive psychological boost….
   2. 

      F1oSaurus (@f1osaurus)
      25th September 2021, 10:46

      @keithedin An engine change for Hamilton in Mexico might make more sense yes.

      Still we have seen Bottas is going 2 or 3 tenths faster with a fresh engine. That brings Mercedes almost on par with Red Bull laptimes. So then Hamilton’s skill can land him the wins while otherwise he will just be a hopeless second.

      Then Hamilton could win Turkey and USA instead of Verstappen. Say they come 5th and 6th (or 4th and 5th) (VER – HAM) in Sochi. Hamilton would then lose 15 points, but he would gain back 14 in the next two races. While Verstappen wins only one place in Sochi and loses 14 points over the next two.

      Overall Hamilton would would then take 11 points more if he changed the engine now vs later.
      1. 

         Keith Campbell (@keithedin)
         25th September 2021, 11:50

         @f1osaurus If the performance increase of the new engine is that large then yes that might incentivise an earlier change, though I haven’t heard the team suggest it is as much as 2 or 3 tenths. But there are also still 8 races to go (potentially) and i think even a brand new engine here wouldn’t be able to be used at all 8, so they will still have to use engines from the original engine pool at some races.
      2. 

         erikje
         25th September 2021, 13:16

         That brings Mercedes almost on par with Red Bull laptimes

         Interesting, they are already quicker then red bull.
10. 

    OOliver
    25th September 2021, 0:07

    Mercedes have been known to out think themselves out of a good position into a bad one.
11. 

    DaveW (@dmw)
    25th September 2021, 1:22

    I had also thought this might be a good idea for Hamilton. But Mercedes only have four wins. A fifth is hard to pass up.
12. 

    AMG44 (@amg44)
    25th September 2021, 1:32

    Mercedes should not take the penalty this race unless they fear a reliability issue with the engine. Let’s bag these 25 points and take the engine penalty at a race they feel they will not be able to challenge for the win (at Mexico most likely, as they are always weak there and Redbull very strong).
    1. 

       papaya
       25th September 2021, 3:05

       Malaysia 2016 is still fresh in mind…
13. 

    iCarbs (@icarby)
    25th September 2021, 4:12

    I’d bag the points, take it race by race. This season isn’t really following the normal script. If the chance is there to maximise I’d take it.
14. 

    Jere (@jerejj)
    25th September 2021, 7:24

    Toto has implied they don’t necessarily need to change at all, but doing so for the same race as VER would be foolish as this way reduce HAM’s chance of retaking the WDC lead, so better not voluntarily take, if not an absolute must.
    1. 

       Jere (@jerejj)
       25th September 2021, 7:32

       would
15. 

    Balue (@balue)
    25th September 2021, 7:25

    Interesting take, but the risk factor is high. OTOH, another bump-off in the mayhem and a subsequent climb to the podium could be all they need for the championship so might be worth it.
16. 

    Embassy Hill
    25th September 2021, 12:15

    Take the pen at a track you think you will come third because even with a grid pen a Merc should still get at least 3rd.

    Anything else is madness. Take the points a run.
17. 

    Mayrton
    25th September 2021, 12:43

    There is a fairly easy way out. Technical reasons resulting in engine change: grid penalty. Being hit by a less gifted driver resulting in engine change: free
    1. 

       Mayrton
       25th September 2021, 12:46

       It is impossible to except a situation where a driver bumps another off, then capitalises with maximum points, and the bumped off one has to start at the end of the grid at a future venue. This alone, not even adding bowling Bottas makes this for me an absolute waste of a season which result eventually is meaningless. FIA at its worst.
       1. 

          Mayrton
          25th September 2021, 12:46

          accept (sorry)
          1. 

             Mayrton
             25th September 2021, 12:47

             Wait, one more conversation with myself
18. 

    Ajaxn
    25th September 2021, 13:37

    This only makes sense if Hamilton is bound to take another engine, and if he starts ahead of Verstappen.

    Otherwise im wondering if Verstappen will actual serve his penalty from the last race by doing this.
    He changes his engine which sends him to the back of the field. In my eyes he so still has that 3 place penalty to serve.

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