Verstappen has no obvious weaknesses, it’s hard being his team mate – Perez

2021 F1 season

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Sergio Perez says it’s difficult being the team mate of Max Verstappen as the championship leader performs at a high level and makes no notable mistakes.

Having joined Verstappen at Red Bull after last season, Perez said he is impressed with the level of performance his team mate can achieve in a car which is tricky to drive.

“It’s not easy being Max’s team mate because he’s at one with the car,” said Perez. “He’s really delivering at a very high level.”

Verstappen has maintained a consistent level of superiority over his team mate, regularly qualifying and finishing ahead of him, which Perez admitted has taken a mental toll.

“We’ve got a unique car in a way and it hasn’t been easy,” he said. “There’s no secret about it, but you need to be mentally very strong after each day and I think that’s one of my strengths, to take the most out of it and try to get the maximum out of every Sunday.”

The RB16B is “unique in a way that it’s something very different to what I was used to,” Perez explained. “Some cars are easier to adapt to than others, some drivers adapt easier [than] others.

“I had a difficult process to adapt to the car, but nothing too dramatic. It’s obviously a very good package and a very competitive one and Max is showing that this car is, if not the best, one of the best out there.”

Verstappen holds a six-point lead over Lewis Hamilton at the top of the championship standings. Perez believes his team mate “has been the driver of the season, to be honest, so far.”

“I think he has done the least mistakes of anyone out there,” said Perez. “He’s put things together at a very high level.

“The season, it’s still very long so we’ll see later on, so far I have been surprised in a very positive way on how he delivers without mistakes at such a high level.”

Asked whether Verstappen has any weaknesses, Perez said: “I’ll have to think about it, but I don’t really think there are. Not obvious ones, yet.”

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111 comments on “Verstappen has no obvious weaknesses, it’s hard being his team mate – Perez”

  1. I agree with perez on verstappen, guessing some people might say he sometimes takes too much risk, but I think he only does that when he’s not in competition for title, a bit like leclerc does nowadays, risking all to get a win here and there, people are saying he should’ve yielded in silverstone, which to me was not possible, he wasn’t alongside, he was clearly in front. And he’s taken less risks against anyone but hamilton.

  2. Obviously Verstappen is one of the best drivers on the grid and will likely go down as one of the best of the era. So being able to match his performance is always going to be a big ask of any driver. Another issue his team mates face is the car, as Franz Tost has said in the Express UK 03/10/22

    Max is the technical lead driver in the team

    In other words, he develops the car exactly as he wants it to be. It could be that the second pilot has difficulties.

    “I don’t want to say specifically, but he has a unique feeling for how he gets the most out of the breaking point, to the turning point and then to the apex.

    “There are other drivers who don’t get along so well with a car that was built for Max. Because they have a different driving style.”

    This is something that has often been talked about but savagely ridiculed by his more ‘dedicated’ fans :).
    But it is a fact and until RB stop being a one driver team it they will continue to have ‘problems’ with his team mates adapting to his car, which in turn nobbles their changes of a WCC.
    I do suspect a WCC seems to be a secondary consideration for RB, unlike the Motor industry based teams.

    1. If Red Bull are indeed building a car very specific to Max’s needs and prioritising the WDC to the detriment of the WCC then I can’t say I blame them.

      The team is there to market their drinks, and the WDC is what everybody outside of the teams care about, so from a commercial point of view it would have greater benefits to win it. He’s proven he can extract the extra tenths required out of such an exacting package and make it worth their while so I don’t see any reason to change.

    2. @johnrkh

      The problem with that theory is that it’s hard to argue against Mercedes being focused very much on providing the best car for Lewis and Ferrari providing the best car for Vettel, a few years back. Yet we saw Rosberg and Leclerc equaling or beating the nr 1 driver at times.

      Ultimately, the top drivers, like Max, Lewis, Alonso and Vettel all take a relatively square racing line through corners, which is the best style for relatively twitchy cars with tons of power. This style stabilizes the car more quickly, allowing drivers to unleash that power earlier. In cars where preserving momentum is more important, it works less well.

      If you actually pay attention to why the Red Bull is hard to drive, it’s because of relatively high instability, which isn’t preferred by any racing driver and doesn’t suit any driving style. Max complains about it a lot. It’s just that his feel for the car is so good that he can drive much closer to the edge of instability than most other drivers. This is in contrast to Vettel, who has little feel for the back end, causing him to spin a lot when he tries to drive on the limit.

      Mercedes have an aero solution that makes for a much more stable car, perhaps helped by having such a good engine, so they can afford it. Of course, Red Bull could change their aero to provide more stability/grip at the expense of speed and then it would be easier to drive, but then the car would be slower.

      1. Very sensible reaction.

      2. @aapje I agree every team has a hierarchy in place but in most teams both drivers have a good level of input into the cars development and sorting. Team orders aside that gives the second driver the opportunity to compete. The Hamilton Rosberg battle did show that the cars were not heavily suited to one drivers style.
        The Vettel /Leclerc pairing as well seemed to show the cars were not to radical in design and able to be set up to a drivers preference, despite Vettels difficulties.
        We have all seen how fast Bottas can be with a different style of driving, he is very quick, which again shows the Merc has not been setup more for Hamilton over the Bottas, to the point it becomes detrimental.
        RedBull on the other hand..
        Yes Verstappen has some complaints about the car this year and yes he has been able to cope better than Perez. Because it’s still the car that has been built around Verstappen.
        As @callmeacynic and @barryfromdownunder have pointed out RB are putting all of their eggs in the one basket. That’s their choice, just maybe people should think of that before unleashing on Verstappens co drivers.

        1. I am afraid it is only part of the truth. Look at the pairing with ricciardo. When verstappen started in the red bull in 2016 he did not know the car at all but was inmediatly able to perform at the highest level.
          It’s not that the car is build for verstappen it’s a typical newey car that requires the best drivers to master.

          1. @johnrkh

            If you look at the ‘My F1 Cars’ interview with Webber on this site, you can see that he doesn’t argue that the double diffuser was developed for Vettel, but that Vettel was better at adapting to it. You can make a good case that Vettel was more suited for the car, since due to having poor control of his rear end, he had to make up for that by being better in other ways. So when he got a car with a uniquely stable rear, he was in heaven, as the car compensated for his weakness. However, there is a difference between the driver being able to adapt well to the car, which was just designed to be fast, and the car being designed for a driver. Many people seem to conflate the two.

            Because it’s still the car that has been built around Verstappen.

            How then?

            Because if I look at Lewis’ and Max’ quali laps, what I typically see is that the Bull far more often loses traction, which Max can catch very quickly, so the impact on his times is low. It’s well known that F1 cars require speed to work well. It’s perfectly possible that the Red Bull is more sensitive to this. For example, the aero may be best suited for fast cornering, so a driver that gets closer to the limit gets an extra boost from additional downforce. And/or it might be harder to get heat into the tyres (something that Bottas also fairly often struggles with). If you design the car so you need to corner very aggressively to put enough energy into the tyres, then a driver who corners more slowly/smoothly may suffer disproportionately.

            However, a lesser ability for a driver to get close to the limit and quickly identify and correct for a loss of traction is not ‘a different driving style.’ It’s a lack of skill. The Red Bull may require more skill to drive (or at least, a certain kind of skill), but that doesn’t mean that it’s designed around a driver.

          2. erikje They moved Ricciardos engineer to Verstappens side of the garage, enough said!

          3. @johnrkh At Red Bull Gianpiero Lambiase joined Daniil Kvyat as a racing engineer in 2015 and maintained his position when Kvyat was replaced by Verstappen. (Wikipedia)

            They did not move Ricciardos engineer to Verstappens side of the garage.

          4. Actually, Ricciardo was basically kicked out of RB to make room for Verstappen.

          5. @liko41

            It’s interesting how bias can warp people’s recollections.

      3. @aapje

        However, there is a difference between the driver being able to adapt well to the car, which was just designed to be fast, and the car being designed for a driver. Many people seem to conflate the two.

        I don’t disagree.

        Keeping to the core point. I made this argument several years ago and now there is a team principle who happens to be employed by RB saying the same thing. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen in other teams to some extent. But RB have taken it to another level.

        1. @johnrkh Please describe exactly how “RB have taken it to another level.” Obviously you must have first hand knowledge of how it works at Mercedes or Ferrari other than simply by comparing how the teammates do on those teams and using that as some sort of ‘proof’ as to how it works internally with car development. I mean, you acknowledge that it happens in other teams to some extent, so what is your evidence as to the extent on each team such that your conclusion is that the extent is greater at RB? Is it what Tost said? What has Tost said of Mercedes or Ferrari for comparison? We’ve certainly spent many seasons with the understanding by Ferrari’s full admission that they tend towards being a one-rooster team. Does that mean they don’t develop a car with one driver in mind? Do you think Mercedes ignores LH’s desires in a car? Of course they don’t but somehow you know with certainty that RB have taken it to another level?

          1. Oh dear @robbie so defensive :)) If you want to find out what or if Tost has said anything about Merc or Ferrari’s handling of drivers go off and find it, It’s for you to provide evidence to support your argument. I supplied his quote about RB and Verstappen, if you think he is mistaken or is not being truthful take it up with him.
            On a side note I see EV sales in Canada are increasing while hybrids are not doing so well. They mustn’t have read your comment about range :)

          2. @johnrkh Lol it’s actually the opposite in that it is up to you to support your position that RBR takes their treatment of Max to ‘another level,’ since you are the one theorizing that, and I have asked you for evidence which you obviously are not willing or able to provide, and are trying to put it back on me. You must know what the other levels of favouritism are if you know Max is one above. So let’s have it. You made your bed, now lie in it.

            As to EV sales and wherever they stand here in Canada. I think you will find that firstly this is a terrible time to judge car sales in general as the economy is down, the job situation has changed, everything has gotten more expensive, and due to computer chip shortages there are car dealerships that sit as we speak with scant inventory on their lots. As a result even used cars are going for a premium and there is a greater percentage of people keeping their existing cars in their possession until the car market improves price and inventory wise. So for me any stats on car sales these days need to have asterisks beside them.

            To be clear as well, when I use the term hybrid I am referring to ICE powered cars with an electric component, not plug-in hybrids. Whatever the range, as I have explained before, they (EVs and plug-ins) don’t go far enough for my purposes, particularly given the recharge time. They have a long way to go, pun intended, before there will be an EV or plug-in hybrid for me. When I can buy an EV for the same money as an ICE/hybrid car, that gets me somewhere near 800km to a ‘tankful’ (read battery full) winter or summer (ie. full heating or air conditioning on) and allows me to stop at any number of places along my way for 5 minutes to recharge and do it all over again, then I’m in. I could even make a true 600 km range work, again with full heating or air conditioning on, stop at any number of places for a couple of minutes, and do it all over again. I think the biggy for me and many is less the range and more the recharge station convenience and speed. I could live with less range as long as it wasn’t ridiculously low like many less expensive EVs are, if I could recharge at any of numerous places in minutes. Otherwise, just too impractical for many unless they live in a city, and I don’t.

          3. @robbie I’m not theorizing I quoted the team principle from RBs B team. I’ve made my argument, read my 1st reply to Aapje, you agree or not.
            Aapje put up a counter argument without my help. If you want a counter point go find it yourself, It’s not my job to supply you with an argument. I will give you this. Ricciardo’s failure to match Norris this year, a lot has been said and written about how and why. But it’s always come back to the same point and the reason McLaren have not spat the dummy over Ricciardo.

          4. @johnrkh I gave you my argument in the form of rhetorical questions about Mercedes and Ferrari and you’ve ignored that and rather have just decided that your Tost quote is proof of something, and it’s not. I’ll ask again how you know that RBR have taken it to ‘another level,’ and sorry but Tost speaking of RBR with Max and him not comparing to other teams is not anything of substance to back your argument. So back it further or admit you don’t know what levels each team goes to with their drivers such that you can say Max is on another level. That you keep putting it back on me is to me proof that you have nothing of substance to support your point. It seems to me you have hovered around waiting for someone to say they build the car for Max just so you can claim that automatically means they focus on Max more than any other team does for any of their drivers. If you know they take it to another level, explain further. It’s your argument not mine. Unless of course it is just pure conjecture on your part.

          5. @robbie rhetorical questions ?

            It seems to me you have hovered around waiting for someone to say they build the car for Max just so you can claim that automatically means they focus on Max more than any other team does for any of their drivers.

            Marko said as much several years ago, I and several others pointed that out at the time. But yes when a team principle from his own team backs that up by actually coming out and admitting it and it’s relative to the subject.
            If that’s not evidence I don’t know what is :))

          6. @johnrkh So just to confirm then, you have nothing to substantiate your claim that the treatment Max gets at RBR is on ‘another level.’ What exactly did Marko say? I’m sure you must have quotes that have him saying they will build the car for Max and not care about his teammates? Something to that effect? I mean, he must have said that, right? Or in fact did he just say things such as, when Max re-signed in 2017, Max has a chance to build a team around him now. I think there’s a reason why you haven’t provided direct quotes but are rather hoping I will just accept your paraphrase as something that is accurate and details exactly how they do things on the team.

            It’s interesting that you don’t hear any commentators, when they talk of Gasly, Albon, or Perez, saying things like ‘after all, they are driving a car custom built for Max, so of course they are going to lag behind and have no chance.’ No, of course they build the car with Max’s input, as Merc would for LH, but of course that does not automatically mean it’s a designer car with no thought put towards how the other drivers would do in it. For all the ‘strength’ you have provided with you argument I could just as easily counter that with the fact that they badly wanted to retain DR and have that strong pairing/rivalry on the team. Why would they have cared so much about keeping him if they were just going to build the car to be for Max anyway?

            There’s a big difference between giving a driver a chance to build a team around him, ala MS at Ferrari, LH at Mac, LH at Merc, SV at RBR, SV at Ferrari, DR once he left RBR and went to Renault, etc etc. This is all very normal kind of stuff in F1 and has been for years. The only one that I believe actually got a designer car out of it was MS at Ferrari for they had literally contracted EI and RB to be subservient to him, and therefore they had every desire to build the car for MS. Otherwise, sure, star drivers have their tendencies listened to and acted upon throughout the history of F1. Nothing you have provided is any evidence that RBR are doing anything on another level with Max that hasn’t been done before and isn’t currently going on in F1.

          7. @robbie

            of course they build the car with Max’s input

            Well done Robbie I knew together we could get you through the denial phase of you obsession. Now we need to work on anger management. :)

          8. @johnrkh

            What robbie said is something you could say about any driver on each team that was actually with that team when the car was build. That you see it as evidence that the car was solely build for Max says a lot about your bias.

      4. José Lopes da Silva
        16th October 2021, 8:35

        Schumacher had teams tayloring the cars for him for 15 years and I don’t remember ever listening to this “Oh-God-they-don’t-care-about-WCC-and-those-poor-second-drivers-oh-dear” stuff. I don’t understand this argument and I really can’t see how did RB take it to another level.

        It is now well-known Schumacher’s B194 had an engine control available to him only, in order to mimic a traction control without breaking the rules, and never made available to Jos Verstappen or Lehto. It was appalling to see Benetton performance in the Italy and Portugal’s 1994 GP.
        In Ferrari, it was no secret thar Irvine was there to make the numbers and to lift and coast whenever necessary, like it happened in Japan 1997 when he brake tested Hakkinen in a manoeuvre that I found brilliant, although inconsistent with a “let them race freely” sporting attitude. And likely to be penalised today. It was known that Schumacher did all the intensive and maniac testing to get the car for him, and that whenever there were 3 new spare parts, he would get the 3 and Irvine would get the outdated version.

        How does Red Bull takes this to another level?

        By the way, twice in the past decade did Red Bull “allow” the upcoming driver to beat the established number one driver: 2014 (Ricciardo > Vettel) and 2016-180 (Verstappen > Ricciardo).

        1. José Lopes da Silva Don’t take the red one’s :))

        2. Ferrari indeed WON six constructors championships, one more than their WDCs.
          And Barrichello was put in WAY BETTER conditions than any of Max’s teammates.

          1. @liko41 Lol you consider an actual contract for Barrichello to be subservient to MS as ‘WAY BETTER?’ Alrighty then.

          2. @robbie
            He was asked to help basically once a year and won multiple races that were gifted to him.
            Same as Bottas.
            Call me when Red Bull offer something comparable to ANY maxiboy’s teammate.

          3. @liko41 Lol so naive. By RB selling out and agreeing to be subservient by contract, he helped MS every day. Not for one second, season after season, did MS have to worry about a competing teammate for it was in his contract not to compete. That’s the one very driver in the same car that could have competed the most, particularly when they were dominant, and yet we were robbed of that competition by a contract that took him out of the equation and made him a rear gunner for MS, or otherwise just a driver to leap out of the way from race ones of seasons.

            At RBR Max’s teammates are free to compete. It is such a shame DR left for they could have been the most formidable pairing on the grid in the current car, as indicated by how well they were allowed to compete against each other when they were together. It is not Max’s fault that they haven’t found a strong enough teammate for him yet, but it has not been for lack of trying. They really wanted to retain DR.

          4. @robbie
            “free to compete”?! Ahahahah that definitely discredited you for ages!
            Dude, try curling.
            F1 is not for you.
            LOL, “free to compete”!!

      5. @aapje
        LOL at Mercedes favoring Hamilton.
        Clearly you missed the way Nico stole the championship away from him in 2016.
        Just LOL again!

        1. @liko41 Lol again, if he had to ‘steal’ it, then what does that say?

          1. @robbie
            THat he is a cheater. Fact.

          2. José Lopes da Silva
            17th October 2021, 12:05

            Fantomius is a well-known commentator here and we should not loose to much time with his shenanigans. But it is useful to bring some basics about motorsport, as Fantomius, although eager to defend Hamilton at all costs, argues in a way that fails to realise how good Hamilton has been performing over the years.

            He brings Ferrari’s 6 straight WCC’s comparing with Schumacher 5 WDC’s. Likely he forgot everything that happened in the 1999 season. Including Mika Salo lifting and coasting for Eddie Irvine to win a race.

            He brought Barrichello’s wins and forgot to reply to me about Jos Verstappen, Herbert or Irvine. Barrichello’s wins have a similar pattern to Bottas wins. Whenever they win, almost always they’re number one driver is around or near. Whenever Bottas is pole position, usually Lewis is second. That means the success is due to the car. On the other way around, in several of the times Schumacher won or Hamilton 2017-2021 won, their number 2 driver was not second. Schumacher and Hamilton are able to put other rivals between themselves and their teammates.

            If you’re able to put some other car between yourself and your teammate, your team cannot give you team orders (Unless you’re Irvine in GP Japan 1997, or some other very EXTREME and RARE situation like that). This is a basic Formula One and motorsport principle that Fantomius ignores.

            That’s a strenght of Schumacher, especially visible in his pre-2000 years, and a strenght of Hamilton, especially visible in his post-Rosberg years. A good argument for Hamilton: he had to fight against Rosberg and then he never needed to get points from Bottas ewarly in the seasons, like Schumacher got in Austria 2001 and 2002.

            When a team dominates like McLaren in 1988-89, Williams in 1996 (Villeneuve was never given team orders) or Mercedes in 2014-16, you don’t have to issue team orders. If a team does not dominate, drivers like Bottas and Barrichello can’t rely only on beating they’re team mates; they have to beat the other team too! Otherwise, their own team will end up putting the eggs in the other basket. When that happens, you’ll have to put another car between yourself and your teammate if you want to win – or wait until he walks away iwth the title and then get the remains, like Barrichello got.

            And then Fantomius makes up that Verstappen’s mates are being penalized. I stated that Red Bull twice allowed, in the past decade, for their upcoming driver to beat the established one. Fantomius should bring examples of that favoritism. I have a book, from professional Brazilian reporters, confirming that once Irvine got 0 neu parts and Schumacher got all 3 new ones, and that was the usual norm. There are no reports about Verstappen’s teammates being penalised that way. Not even Ricciardo.

            «“free to compete”?! Ahahahah that definitely discredited you for ages! Dude, try curling. F1 is not for you. LOL, “free to compete”!!»

            I rest my case.

          3. Fantomius simply never takes a chill pill. At all. Fantomius even said that Grosjean won’t be missed just because of his horrible Bahrain crash. Well, that didn’t age well, did it? Grosjean is now racking up podiums and impressive drives at IndyCar!

            ““fREe TO COmPETE”?! ahaHahaH tHaT DeFINITEly DiscrEDiTED yOu for AGes!
            dUDe, tRy CURLinG.
            F1 Is Not FOr yOU.
            lOL, “FRee To compEte”!!”
            “lol At MercedeS FAVORIng haMIltOn.
            clEaRly YOu missed ThE way nIco stole the CHaMpIonShIp aWaY From HIM In 2016.
            juST lOL AgAin!”
            “THAt He Is a CHEAtER. fACt.”

            I’d rather interrogate Fantomius. Yeah, I will never stop killing him with the Spongebob Mockery meme.

    3. Barry Bens (@barryfromdownunder)
      15th October 2021, 8:46

      It’s somewhat logical at this point in time (at least that’s what I think) to put all your eggs in 1 basket (the basket being Verstappen) when it comes to developing a car. They know regulation changes are coming in fast (and they knew 1-2 years ago during Albon/Gasly as teammate). So why bother making a car that both drivers can use to get an average result, when you can also get 1 driver in the top?

      Sure, it’s not very nice for their second driver (unless they manage to get a replica of Verstappen), but for the time being they might as well.
      What’s going to be interesting is the path they take from 2022 going forwards. Will they again focus on Verstappen as person to guide their upgrades, or wil they take the midle ground (which usually doesn’t end well for teams, look at Ferrari with the Vettel-Leclerc split).? Same goes for Mercedes: will they listen more to Russell or to Hamilton when it comes to developing the car in a certain direction? Although in the case of Mercedes, they have 2 top drivers who might be more capable of driving around issues. Red Bull, in all honesty, has yet to put a top driver next to Verstappen (think Norris, Leclerc, Russell). You could claim Gasly is up there, but is he really?

      Another issue of Red Bull I think is the difference between the Alpha Tauri and the Red Bull. They use the B-team as proving grounds, but it’s too different from the Red Bull to actually use most of that in the Red Bull (of the last few years at least). Whereas Russell has shown that driving in a barn without much of anything (downforce, speed etc.) you can at least focus and therefore keep the experience of the basics. A much better situation to be in.

      I’d be very interested to see the likes of Liam Lawson behind the wheel of the Red Bull (next year) during a rookie test or Free Practice, just to see if no proper previous experience beats having been in a totally different car.

    4. @johnrkh

      I do suspect a WCC seems to be a secondary consideration for RB, unlike the Motor industry based teams

      No Mercedes and Ferrari have cleary shown it is the same for them.

      1. @balue What does a manufacturer care who drives their cars to a title…none!

        1. @johnrkh That’s a separate point, but that matters too. For example Mercedes has come out and said Hamilton has been very valuable for their marketing, I guess changing Mercedes’ image from taxis to hip and happening. A Bottas wouldn’t do the same for them. Leclerc would sell Ferraris. A Massa not as much. Etc.

    5. Sorry, this just doesnt work that way. On set up, maybe, but no more. Its just that Max is better at adjusting to the car. As he has said many times: I need 3 laps in a(ny) car and then I know what it is capable off and not capable off.

      1. Coming from the man himself, that doesn’t sound biased at all.

    6. @JohnH At You Tube there is video about: Why Verstappen’s special F1 driving style is a myth
      You should watch it because after that you will understand why it’s a myth that the RB car is designed for MV

  3. If Verstappen doesn’t win the world championship this year I’m not sure he ever will; he’s got the best car, this is his chance. Maybe the reality doesn’t match the hype.

    I do think Perez is doing an excellent job as the no. 2. Unlike Kvyat, Gasly, and Albon he’s got nothing to prove; he can just get on with driving.

    1. (I keep thinking back to the comments he made a few weeks ago where he said he wasn’t feeling pressure, he’s just having a good time driving, he’s very relaxed etc. If that really is true, then he lacks the hunger to succeed, and I don’t think he will.)

    2. @dang Agreed with what you said mate. If Max doesn’t win it this year with the FIA floor rules in their favor then he never will be WDC and i already feel Max is highly overhyped, he’s a good racer but he lacks race intelligence IMO.

      1. Not denying anyone to their opinions, that’s fine. But you mention overhyped and lack of race intelligence. Is he not delivering on the hype then or can you point out some examples where he made the wrong decision due to lack of race intelligence? I mean it’s easy to make a statement like that but I want to see why you say that. I think as for driver of the season he is quite deserving that at the moment

        1. @BaasBas Imola for example, Spain, Silverstone sprint race, Silverstone etc where Verstappen takes too many risk and crashes. Silverstone waw his fault, as was Monza, let’s not ignore how Max’s race in Baku came on the radio to tell Max to ease on the tyres because they were on the limit and still Max drove like a man possessed and demanded too much from the tyres.

          1. Well okay, after reading this I checked your past messages. Out of the 20 that show, exactly 20 are anti Verstappen and anti Red Bull (I didn’t bother clicking “show more”). Extreme fans and extreme anti-fans are ruining this board. I’m fine having a discussion about Verstappen on Monza, he was awarded the blame, but I still think it was actually him showing race intelligence. But there is no discussion possible with now too many people here

          2. Imola, it was Lewis who took too much risks and was extremely lucky to even score some points. Verstappen was on the inside and ahead at the start of the breaking. braking slightly more conservative than Lewis. Lewis took a small risk trying to go around the outside despite the advantage being with Max. He backed off when he saw there was no way Max could or would leave the door open for him. Later Lewis took a very dangerous and unneeded risk passing backmarkers because he tried to keep up with Max and nearly lost the entire race.

            Spain, that was just perfect risk management a classical way to take the lead in Turn 1 as done by the greats like Hamilton, Schumacher and Senna. A display of good risk management and not the opposite.

            Silverstone sprint race.. please elaborate because you probably mistaken it. Verstappen led from T1 and at no point did he take some high risk to keep Lewis behind him in that first half of a lap.

            Silverstone main race, only absolute Lewis fan-boys still try to blame Max while it was Lewis at fault. Lewis knew he had to beat Max by Copse or else Max would drive away. So Lewis took a huge amount of risks and dived on the inside despite Max having the inside almost closed. Max opened up the corner to allow Lewis room but Lewis had too much speed to take it, as Lewis was taking a high risk-reward option.

            Monza, Yeah that was Verstappen at fault, it is impossible to argue Lewis being at fault in Silverstone and Max not being at fault in Monza or vice versa. It takes twisted logic to blame Max for both cases. Max lost the race due to unneeded regulation changes favoring Mercedes. Lewis was going to pass him and like Lewis knew in Silverstone, Max knew he needed to beat Lewis in that corner or never get passed him again.

            Baku, the fault was at Pirelli not Max. The tires where according to spec, the blowout was without warning. Even Pirelli admitted no fault with drivers/teams. I could not find any team radio warning Max that his tires might blow out. He wasn’t driving like a mad man. his laptimes where within a few tenths of Perez and Hamilton. To call that driving like a mad man.. is just showing your bias.

          3. @Zanquis Fantasy is all what i read.

          4. @NoName, you are the one in fantasy world. Try coming up with facts. Like your claim Max drove like a Mad Man in Baku… that means Lewis drove like a Mad Man in Baku as he was doing similar laptimes.

            The stewards disagree with you regarding Silverstone main race. And please tell me what problem you had with the sprint race?

          5. Silverstone was his fault,


            Enough said
            “Arguing with an i_io_ is like playing chess with a pidgeon. It’ll just knock over all the pieces, poop on the board, and strut about like it’s won anyway.”

          6. Silverstone was a racing incident. You won’t be able to counter-attack.

      2. but he lacks race intelligence

        This is the same kind of rubbish that used to be thrown at Lewis especially when he left Mclaren. I don’t understand how anyone who has watched Max over the past few seasons – and especially this one – can say such rubbish about him. To everyone their own assessment of drivers I guess.

    3. What makes you think he has the best car?

      Facts show that Merc had the best car since Silverstone, helped by their big upgrade and Pirelli’s change of tyres.

      It’s freaky that Merc didn’t take advantage of that in past 6 races.
      They could (should) have won all.

      1. @trib4udi Red Bull is the fastest since the beginning of the season when the FIA changed the floor rules to benefit Red Bull. Red Bull only focusses on Max and didn’t/don’t upgrade Perez’s car at all, hence Perez have it hard. With that avantage Red Bull should be head and shoulders above in the WDC and WCC which is a failure kn Max and Red Bull’s part.

        1. What is the fun living in a self created fantasy and totally disregard the reality?
          you can only be disappointed by the facts.
          It will be a hard season for you.

        2. RedBull started strong, with Mercedes not really delivering. But the differences where minor. While the change in rules favored RedBull at the start, everything after that favored Mercedes.

          The new stronger rear tires, favored Mercedes.
          The (unneeded) change in pitstop rules, favored Mercedes.
          The changing on track surface in Turkey, favored Mercedes.

          The Mercedes has been the fastest car for some time, as obvious by how much even Bottas now can keep RedBull behind him. Only tracks where Max could get pole and win where Zandvoort and Spa, but that seems to be also because Max really delivered an awesome lap.

          Perez car ibviously also gets the upgrades Max car gets. New upgrades go to Max car first offcourse. But it is not like he is still driving the same car from start of season.

        3. @noname

          when the FIA changed the floor rules to benefit Red Bull.

          Even Mercedes doesn’t argue this…

    4. @dang

      he’s got the best car

      No he obviously hasn’t

      1. Never ever feed the tr_lls

        1. I know, just couldn’t help it. I’ll start ignoring them more.

    5. he will obviously become champion, sooner or later, just like lewis in 2007.
      this year he’s been the best driver and on paper should have at least 30 points more, since he got eliminated in 2 races and dnf in baku, while lewis made several mistakes that, lucky him, had little consequence.

      1. @lello4ever Max caused that crash in Silverstone, Lewis sold Max a dummy Max fell for and had to do any thing to keep Hamilton behind, hence Max had a ocean of space to his left and still managed to crash in Hamilton. Baku was another example of Max lack of race intelligende, his race engineer came on the radio right after Stroll crashed and told Max to ease on the tyres because the rear tyres were on the limit, still Max drove like a headless chicken demanding too much from his tyres. For some reason Max can’t calculate ahead.

        1. Keep on dreaming :)

        2. Weird reading the comments here. A lot of people think Verstappen is overhyped, crashes often and isn’t deserving of a championship. Just makes me wonder what you’d consider worthy? I remember the exact same opinions levelled at Hamilton and Vettel when they were early in their careers. Vettel’s ‘crash kid’ tag stuck with him even when he was winning championships back to back. Hamilton spent entire seasons collecting penalties for dumb errors. Both drivers were by far talented and still are and worthy of their championships – regardless of favouritism accusations or ‘dominant car’ discussions. If Verstappen clinches this title which I dearly, dearly hope he does it will be 100% earned and 100% deserved.

          1. Adam, can’t you see?
            Max is overhyped, can’t drive and crashes often.
            But he’s still leading the championship even though he had tyres exploding etc. So the difference could be much bigger!
            So what does that say about the other drivers?
            Hamilton can’t be a bad driver, so the Red Bull car must be exceptionally strong because what other way could Max be ahead of Lewis?
            But Perez can hardly keep up with Max, Bottas and Hamilton, so he must be an absolute bad driver because the car is great.
            But if Perez is such a bad driver, then all the teammates he beat or was very close to, must also be very bad drivers… or .. wait for it… also have an exceptional strong car.
            So if we conclude this reasoning, it must mean that all drivers on the grid, except Hamilton, are absolute rubbish, but have great cars. So the Mercedes must be a dog of a car with Lewis the best driver.
            It is the only logical conclusion! /s

            (I’m not saying Lewis is not one of the best drivers of all time. See I can appreciate the Max is a very good driver, probably also one of the best of all times, and also appreciate Lewis.)

        3. You are absolutely right. Watching the races and taking some magic mushrooms is just so much better.

        4. Baku was #PirelliMurderer. Silverstone was a racing incident. Today was a zero counter-attack.

    6. What a strange remark about a 24 year old who beat all his team mates. Especially since he is up against a team that has been quite dominant for the last 7(!) years.

      1. Davethechicken
        15th October 2021, 14:50

        Mayrton, you know very well Riccardo beat him over there time together. Why on earth pretend otherwise?

        1. Davethechicken you’ve already expressed that you have no respect for Max but why on earth pretend that DR “beat him over their time together” without acknowledging that DR really only beat him early on when Max was new to the team, and Max only gained and gained and overtook DR by all measures as their time together grew.

          Here’s an article from this site, albeit with some season numbers missing, but there’s enough to get the gist. And as we know the Max post-Monaco 2018 is different from the Max pre-Monaco 2018.

          1. Davethechicken
            15th October 2021, 16:44

            Robbie, as teammates Riccardo had more points, more poles and more wins. Indeed until he announced he was leaving Red Bull he was ahead in the WDC.
            Funny how he dropped back thereafter!!!
            You are right I don’t respect the man for his abusive language.
            He is a very very good driver, but when people simply ignore facts and pretend otherwise happy to call them out.

          2. Davethechicken
            15th October 2021, 16:50

            You have also cherry picked 2018 season there Robbie. What about 2017 and 2016???

          3. Davethechicken it would appear you didn’t bother to open the link I have referenced, as they mention 2016 and 2017 as well. Sure you are not wrong to suggest DR ‘beat Max over their time together’ when you look at certain aspects. But of course making a blanket statement such as this doesn’t tell the whole story, which is why I offered the link.

            Sure, over their 3 seasons together DR achieved 5 more points than Max…626 to 621. But it isn’t a fair comparison without acknowledging that Max didn’t start 2016 at RBR. He didn’t get to do pre-season testing in the car and rather was parachuted in for the 5th race of that season. A race he won, of course albeit with the help of circumstances. However, sure DR beat Max by 52 points that season that saw DR with the advantage of being there the whole season and having the pre-season with the car as well, not to mention 2 full seasons before that. Every chance to have them developing the car for his likings if one wants to bring in that aspect.

            In 2017 DR only beat Max by 32 points, DR scoring 56 fewer points than he did in 2016, Max only scoring 36 fewer. Obvious car issues all season. So already we see a trend that DR is outscoring Max but by less. Keeping in mind all the while of course that DR already had way more experience in F1 and on the team than Max.

            In 2018 it became all about Max learning a hard lesson at Monaco, and turning his career around after that with much cleaner driving. Max outscored DR by 79 points. Through Monaco Max had only finished ahead of DR once, and DR finished ahead 3 times when they both finished, and had 2 wins. Post Monaco Max finished ahead of DR 7 times to DR’s once over Max, when they both finished. DR didn’t announce his leaving until after the 12th round Hungary.

            So as you see I haven’t cherry picked anything, and fully acknowledge that initially DR had the upper hand, but for obvious reasons of Max’s newness on the team, not even having a full season in 2016, his admitted mistakes that suddenly stopped for the most part when he burned himself at Monaco 2018, and there is an unavoidable reality that the more time Max and DR spent together the more Max outperformed DR in all aspects. That is simply undeniable, and you are merely trying to shade it out of bias. Consider yourself called out for only going by a few facts and not taking into account the true reality of what constituted all the facts.

          4. Davethechicken
            15th October 2021, 18:48

            Not caught out at all Robbie. You have also, in great detail, highlighted Mayrtons statement as incorrect, and how Riccardo in fact, “beat” Max in 2016 and 2017, to use Mayrtons words.
            Don’t get me wrong, I do believe Max had the upper hand in 2018, but he did not and has not “beat all his teammates”, as claimed, if looked at objectively.
            Riccardo also left under the belief the team was favoring Max, which certainly seems plausible given the subsequent performance to teammates and the failure to act on slam dunk offensive, racist and abilist terms Max used, broadcast on TV to the world, describing stewards and competitors. .

          5. Davethechicken
            15th October 2021, 19:07

            A warning to Max for the second offense was deeply inadequate

          6. Davethechicken Suffice it to say if indeed DR left because he felt the team was favouring Max, there’s a reason for that, namely Max was earning that. DR said at the time that it was the hardest decision he had ever had to make, so it didn’t sound like a no-brainer for him. Max is an exceptional driver so he is not easy to go up against.

            As to ‘rascist and abilist’ terms, I agree not his highest moment but also not one that needed to be ‘broadcast on TV to the world’ by F1. But I think you likely would acknowledge that as immature as that was, it was directed at someone who as far as I’m aware is fully able bodied physically and mentally and it is highly unlikely Max would say something so derogatory to someone actually disadvantaged. Not defending what he said of course, but not going to castigate him for life over it either.

  4. Verstappen has an obvious weakness (which is why I don’t consider him a WDC material, and hopefully, he will never become one). He cannot accept losing. He doesn’t think or consider the situation, he just crashes into opponents, always blaming the opponents afterwards. He also doesn’t learn from his mistakes. Not once did he lose a win or podium because of his reckless driving, but he never changed his approach anyway.

    What’s worse, the team indulges this behaviour, claiming in one situation “Max did everything perfectly, he throw himself into the corner, and Hamilton had to either back off or crash into the wall”, and then for the same situation but the drivers reversed the team yells their guts out that the other driver is to blame, and Verstappen should never back off, followed by etc. It’s obviously better to lose engines and money than to teach your driver a thing or two.

    1. @Sviat Well said mate, i could honestly not have explained it better. I really hope Max never becomes WDC, Max is nothing but hype but also as you beautifully said that Red Bull condone his overly agressive driving which always lead to tears, look how he caused that crash in Silverstone and Monza, he’s just reckless and his crashes would have been higher had Lewis not backed out in Imola, Spain and Silverstone sprint race

      1. I’ve been on track with both Hamilton (raced at club level) and Verstappen (2011 Test a PFi) and watched both their careers very carefully. Anyone who says ‘Max is just hype’ I really can’t say anything other than you’re wrong, very very very wrong.

      2. Two fans with reality problems.
        Nice, you can start a support group at the end of this season

      3. Corpse incident happened because Max went for the crash instead of avoiding it. Max threw caution to Hamilton from Imola, Spain, and recently Brooklands, if you don’t back-off or stick to your position we would have crashed. Hamilton avoided all the crashes invitation because he was ahead in points. Coming to Co(R)pse, Hamilton decided now his turn to throw caution to Max. He was more than race win behind in points. Now, it was Max time to react to. Either avoiding it or going for it. Max chose the latter. His decision back fired him big, big points loss.

    2. AJ (@asleepatthewheel)
      15th October 2021, 11:47

      I think it is not Max’s fault rather having grown up with Jos, Marko, and to a certain extent Horner, he has developed a sense of entitlement on and off the track. Leaving the RB camp can do wonders for him on a personal front.

      1. Davethechicken
        15th October 2021, 13:08

        All my respect for Max vanished when he called Gary Connolly (race steward) a “mongel” on Dutch TV and then repeated the accusation after colliding with Stroll one year ago on team radio. That lack of punishment last year was bewildering. He is some brand ambassador for RBR.
        I have no respect for the man.

        1. No wonder his approval rating plummeted.

    3. You know Lewis can’t stand losing either but strange it seems he is a 7 times WC so i don’t think that is a real reason why you think Max isn’t WC matrial.

    4. @Sviat

      Verstappen has an obvious weakness (which is why I don’t consider him a WDC material, and hopefully, he will never become one). He cannot accept losing.

      I guess that’s why Senna, Schumacher, Alonso and Lewis, who all cannot accept losing, never became world champions.

      1. Ahah, so true, ramming opponents out and backing opponents into other cars (which I like btw, they never give up).

    5. I’ve seen him quite happy with 2nd or 3rd. He perfectly knows when there isn’t more on the table. So, no worries in that department. I think we should all be glad he raises the game a bit since it hasn’t exactly been the most exciting 7 years, seeing the same care win everything.

  5. Anyone who witnessed Verstappen drive a kart knows how good he is. I’ve been on track with Hamilton and Verstappen (raced Hamilton at club level, shared the track when I was testing at PFi ion 2011).

    Max was just next level. Hard to really comprehend. People go on about RedBull focusing on one side of the garage really need to understand Max is just a different breed apart. It’s not often you get to watch a driver and think “I really don’t know how you’d beat them in a fair fight”.

    1. Alan Dove

      Hard to really comprehend. People go on about RedBull focusing on one side of the garage really need to understand Max is just a different breed apart

      Best you take that up with Mr Tost who I quoted and Helmet Marko who said back in 2017 they would build the team around Verstappen.

      1. Building a team is something different then building a car that only fits one driver.
        That would be detrimental to your chances on wdc.
        So it’s not the case. M

        BTW, the team is very enthousiast about their driver. Nice chemistry there.

        1. There’s few drivers of Max’s ability, so the fan base of F1 often has to rationalise why their favorite drivers struggle against him. The car would be perfectly fine for Perez if the reference was .4 down the road and instead it was someone of medium ability.

          Car’s become twitchy and weird when you are chasing .4 of a second to your team mate. If the car feels great and your .5 off then you have to search for time elsewhere and suddenly it’s “the car is built for driver A not B” etc….

          Anyone who has watched Max’s career (b4 the spotlight of cars) knows damn well when he finds a tenth or two, really you never catch him. You improve a tenth, he improves a tenth. What he did in KZ1 was obscene at times.

    2. I just want to say big thank you for your great and meaningful posts in this thread, Alan!

  6. I can think of one weakness: His incredibly poor wheel to wheel skills. He has been the same way ever since he got into F1. The “leave me all of the space when I try an overtake” and “I will leave you 0 space when you try to overtake me” led him to have many collissions in his first years in the sport. The idea that he has matured since, which seems pretty popular these days, is merely a result of the previous years Red Bull car being all the way out in no mans land. Not fast enough to challenge the Mercs and Ferrari’s, and much faster than the rest of the field. Now that the gap from Red Bull to Merc has closed (and in many tracks, been overtaken) the weakness of Max is showing up again.

    Silverstone: First Max divebombing into Brooklands to avoid being overtaken, then Max made 2 moves into Copse, aiming for the Apex where Hamilton would be. No chance on this planet that Hamilton was “primarily to blame”
    Barcelona: Leave me space or we crash, praised by that hypocrite Horner with “if Hamilton didn’t cede the place he’d be in the barrier”
    Imola: I will give you no space at all
    Monza: Lap 1: I will give you no space at all, then the crash: you will give me space that my cars position has not earned or we crash

    Max has not changed, he has not matured, and his wheel to wheel instincts and dirty driving leave much to be desired.

    1. Welly sum up mate

    2. I thought you described Senna. Nice compliment. Jokes aside: it would be good to pick up some YT movies on racing rules or racing academies. There’s plenty out there. Might change your perspective on things. I think its been a long time since some-one really drove on the cut edge of what this sport is supposed to be. And it was about time some-one raised the game. We’ve seen brilliance the last decade but merely ‘being fast’ brilliance first from Vettel and then Lewis. All related to dominance of their cars. Their wheel to wheel was processional often based on overspeed. Some seem to have forgotten what this sport is about.

      1. I’m well aware of how to race, and of the rules. Max is an anomaly, he is driving Senna-esque in a sport that has long since put that style of driving behind it. It is no longer acceptable. He is not raising the game, he is bending it. He has been protected by the FIA since he joined, and there are so many times when he should have been penalised where he got off scott free, with his sycophantic fanboys blessing the ground he walks on and treating him like the second coming. It’s disturbing.

        He should not win this years championship. It would be a joke if he did. His anti racing style of driving should not be rewarded… If every driver drove like Verstappen, there would be no sport worth watching.

    3. @lordlambert

      You are just lying about the facts now, another Lewisfan. You are truly showing yourselves up here.

      1. There are no lies in my comment.

  7. As I have never been to any of the Commonwealth countries, neither to the USA, I would like to ask the ones with more established taste:
    Who holds the “tea cup” in the better way?
    a) Max
    b) Sergio

    To me it is a close call, I vote for Max, as I see a bit more joy and gracefulness at him, but Sergio used his right hand better.

    Funny picture, although IIRC this is currently a non-alcoholic beverage, but still: fizzy :P.

    1. neither…nor instead of the previous structure, agile Jock

      1. Strongly disagree. Sergio shows more commitment in the way he grabs the bottle. Max seems more careful. :)

    2. And it is still alcoholic, a sparkling wine, non-alcoholic is only used at the Middle-East.

  8. Visited several of the countries you mention: my thoughts are…while neither is a ‘little pinky in the air’ Darjeeling tea connoisseur, Max is certainly the bigger consumer of Red Bull beverage itself; this I am assured of after each of his crashes.

  9. Pretty much what teammates used to say about Schumacher, then Alonso, then Hamilton…

    Very hard to deliver on such a high level. And probably he would be unable to explain it.

    1. Exactly, I was a schumacher fan and I said pretty early verstappen reminded me of him.

  10. Kimi would gain more points then Sergio in that car.

  11. Well it helps when ya dad buys you the best gokarts from an extremely young age. Max has had a crazy advantage over every driver on the grid.

    If 2 good tennis players pick up a racket age 6 and 9 the 6 year old will be the better one same for any sport. Max was probably driving on his dad’s estate from like 4 onwards a huge advantage. Max was made Lewis is the natural talent for sure.

    1. What if he has the natural talent and was made.

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