Start, Jeddah Corniche Circuit, 2021

Hamilton wins bad-tempered scrap and ties Verstappen on points before finale

2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix summary

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Lewis Hamilton won the inaugural Saudi Arabian Grand Prix and drawn level with championship rival Max Verstappen with just one race left in the 2021 world championship following a bad-tempered scrap between the pair.

The greatest flashpoint of the season happened on lap 38, shortly after a Virtual Safety Car restart. Verstappen overtook Hamilton around the outside at turn one at the Jeddah Corniche Circuit, but could not stay on track. In trying to redress, Hamilton tucked in behind Verstappen approaching turn 27, Verstappen appeared to slow suddenly, and the two made contact.

Hamilton suffered minor front wing damage, and Verstappen was given a five second time penalty for leaving the track and gaining a lasting advantage. Hamilton took the lead back from Verstappen on lap 43, and drove away to his third win in succession.

Verstappen maintained second place after the time penalty, falling away from Hamilton in the final laps. By setting the fastest lap of the race, Hamilton gained eight points on Verstappen – bringing both drivers to 269.5 points going into next weekend’s Abu Dhabi Grand Prix.

The inaugural race in Jeddah will be remembered as a rather calamitous race on the whole, after two red flags for major incidents, and multiple virtual safety car interventions for incidents and debris on the racing line.

The first red flag was for TecPro barrier repairs at turn 22, when Mick Schumacher spun off and crashed. Initially the safety car was deployed, and Verstappen stayed out on track while Hamilton and Valtteri Bottas pitted from first and second for hard compound tyres. The red flag was thrown on lap 14, allowing Verstappen to change to medium tyres.

On the ensuing standing restart, Verstappen started from first, but Hamilton got a better launch off the line. Hamilton ran wide through turn one, forcing Verstappen off track, and Verstappen took the lead ahead of the Alpine of Esteban Ocon, who had launched from fourth to second. Behind them, contact between Charles Leclerc and Sergio Pérez triggered a multi-car accident that took Pérez out of the race, along with George Russell and Nikita Mazepin. This brought out the second red flag.

After heated debate, and even bargaining between FIA race control, Mercedes, and Red Bull, Ocon was placed at the front for the next standing restart, with Hamilton in second, and Verstappen moved back to third for leaving the track and gaining an advantage. On the medium tyres, Verstappen launched into the lead with a forceful block pass into turn one. Hamilton would make light contact with Ocon, but eventually settled into second, pursuing Verstappen for the lead.

On lap 23, Sebastian Vettel was hit by Yuki Tsunoda, the incident and debris on track brought out a virtual safety car. Vettel would come to blows with Kimi Raikkonen on lap 28, and their collision necessitated another, longer VSC intervention.

Over the line, Bottas used DRS to snatch third place from Ocon by just 0.102 seconds. Daniel Ricciardo finished in fifth, ahead of Pierre Gasly in sixth, then the Ferraris of Leclerc in seventh and Carlos Sainz Jnr in eighth. Antonio Giovinazzi scored points for Alfa Romeo in ninth, and Lando Norris took the final championship point in tenth.

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2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix reaction

Author information

Will Wood
Will has been a RaceFans contributor since 2012 during which time he has covered F1 test sessions, launch events and interviewed drivers. He mainly...
RJ O'Connell
Motorsport has been a lifelong interest for RJ, both virtual and ‘in the carbon’, since childhood. RJ picked up motorsports writing as a hobby...

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225 comments on “Hamilton wins bad-tempered scrap and ties Verstappen on points before finale”

  1. It is gonna be hard to top this season. What a season this is. Max please grow up. That was a different level of dirty driving and no respect for the other driver. Even when he gave the place back to Lewis he overtook him straight away gaining a lasting advantage. Wasn’t Lewis penalised for exactly this ar Spa 2018.
    Also when both made contact on the straight, Max parked his car in the middle of the track, as the track is so narrow Lewis couldn’t overtake him there.
    Max played very dirty throughout this race.

    1. @amg44 I see no reason to believe someone with that username would see things objectively. Max slowed, Max slowed for a very long time and Ham refused to pass him. Ham drove into Max. Didn’t Vettel get a penalty for this exact thing when he drove into Hamilton?

      1. No Vettel got a penalty for slamming into Hamilton afterwards, not for hitting the back of Hamilton

      2. At least try to tell it correctly. Vettel was penalized for swerving into Hamilton after he’d accused LH of brake testing. I mean you understand the principle of basic facts, right?

      3. And I see no reason to believe someone who isn’t willing to stand by their opinions by creating an account, therefore denying me the chance to look up your comment history which for all I know, may well be biased. But because you haven’t created an account, I can’t tell for certain. (and using Google search for your username doesn’t count as it’s not likely to be as accurate as the in-house comment look-up that’s available for users who have created an account).

        1. I have an account but this site keeps logging me out. I’ve been posting under the same name for several years.

          At least have a decent rebuttal.

          1. this site keeps logging me out

            That’s automatic after a time. Just have a browser that saves your log in.

          2. Looks like the stewards have made the point I could have originally made, that Max was simply in the wrong. I’ve mentioned on other articles that Max stuck to the middle of the road and while I wouldn’t call it break testing, it’s similar in nature to Belgium 1998 (despite the difference in conditions), as DC is on record saying that he slowed down in the middle of the track i.e. not clearly off-line, and that is something you shouldn’t do as a driver). He should have been further to the side if he was giving the place back. Except he was trying to do so and get DRS for the following straight, which would give him an advantage for the next corner. Which he isn’t supposed to have, as Belgium 2008 made clear after the stewards ruling on Hamilton’s pass on Kimi (I think that’s the decision @amg44 is referring to).

            I am interested though, as to why you didn’t choose to log back in when replying to my comment? All it makes me think is that you don’t want your comments on this subject to be easily searchable, or that you don’t actually have access to the username in question. Especially as it’s not difficult to do and it’s obvious that you’re not logged in when you’re asked to provide a name before the comment is posted.

      4. He slowed and accelerated repeatedly. Also the track is very narrow so he was slowing down in the middle of the track which was preventing Lewis to overtake him. Max did not give the place back “Properly” and even when he did after much convincing by his team, he overtook Lewis straight away keeping a lasting advantage.
        Every fair person can see today how many times Lewis avoided the contact with Max in turn 1 today. But Max is just too dirty.

        1. @amg44
          Max slowed down, and Lewis did the same. Accelerating and decelerating I didnt see onboard. And the rest just your view but Lewis had enough space to overtake him there.

          Every fair person could see that Lewis pushes of Max in turn 27. Lewis got even a warning for this, but only Max gets a penalty.

          1. @ruben

            Imagine if backmarkers adhered to blue flags the way Max did.

          2. @blazzz
            Imagine what Lewis will do to every backmarkers. Hope his wing is strong enough.

          3. @ruben

            When backmarkers do not allow a lead car soon enough they get a penalty. Max parked his car in the middle of the track so he could get the DRS and repass straight after like he did later when he did actually pass.

          4. @blazzz You (and others) have a very, very skewed sense of “the middle”. I would never want to be on a road with you guys, as it’s obvious you’d scare everyone else.

          5. @neiana

            Yes because the reference point for the “middle” of the road in an F1 car is the same as a road car right 🙄

        2. Zero evidence of “slowing and accelerating”. Listen to the onboard.

        3. When Lewis runs into Max, he didn’t know why Max was slowing. He hadnt been informed by his pit radio. Put yourself in place of Lewis, for all he knew there was a yellow or a red ahead. If he goes by Max with a yellow or red it means a certain penalty.

          Also max doesn’t clearly move over to allow Hamilton pass. It now looks like Max was choosing where to allow Hamilton pass so that he could get the advantage of the DRS to over take again. Max slows down once, when Lewis doesn’t go by at that DRS he races ahead to the next DRS and slows again.

          As for why the SKY pundits can’t see this only they know..

          1. @Ajaxn
            +1. Exactly this. Anthony Davidson picked up on this on the Skypad after the race and he reckons its a slam dunk penalty.

      5. Nope. You are so wrong. Vertaappen did not make it clear, he stayed in the middle of the track and weaved left and right. Slowing down that much on a straight is unusual. I have seen hundreds of places being given back over the years and never have I seen it given back in that way. Than when he finally did give it back properly he broke the rules by overtaking before one corner (which incidentally was brought in after Hamilton overtook Kimi immediately after giving a ace back in spa – which was within the rules at the time. Although Hamilton was then given a 25 second penalty for simply leaving the track). So surely max should be punished for that?

      6. “I see no reason to believe someone with that username would see things objectively”

        What is wrong with algebraic multigrid, a common technique in F1 CFD?

        1. neiana-ormaybeRB33
          5th December 2021, 21:41

          Mercedes brand & Lewis’ number? Imagine if my username was RB33 and pretended to be objective. That’s funny.

          1. A ‘team’ username might indicate a lack of objectivity, but it doesn’t confirm it.

      7. Max slowed quite far from being on the right side, and then he even pulled up a bit to the middle of the track Erikje. Sure, he must have been a bit confused (he WAS told about giving back the spot, unlike Lewis was at that time it seems), but this? And then driving away? After that he shouldn’t be surprised to get a penalty.

        As Felipe Massa mentioned on the F1TV after show, untill last weekend, he felt Max really thoroughly deserved the title if he would win. Now? Not so much. And yes, it was both Massa and Alex Brundle earlier during the race commentary who noticed that. Both also saw that Max actually did slow and jinx a bit to the left shortly before Hamilton hit him.

    2. I’ve never seen such selective sight. There was an acre of space on the left for Hamilton to pass Verstappen; Hamilton could’ve done so at any time, but instead insisted on riding right up Verstappen’s back.

      What else can be expected from “AMG44” however?

      1. You should focus on the merit of my argument rather than my username. We all have funny usernames and email addresses created years ago which we continue to use.

        1. I fully agree that Verstappen acted disgracefully in this race, but there is no merit in what you’re saying regarding the rear-ending incident.

          1. @inininin

            I’ve said in my comment above- imagine if backmarkers acted in this way. Max didn’t exactly make his intentions clear- he was parked in the middle of the track for quite a while. Put simply, he could have made it obvious which way he was going- he didn’t.

      2. Problem was communication. Reference that contact, I mean what does Hamilton gain from breaking his front wing?

        It’s clear Max knew what he needed to do more so than Hamilton, however the DRS detection line might play a part in all this.

        Everything else that happened, glad Max wasn’t rewarded for that type of driving.

        1. Actually I feel like hamilton had less to lose than verstappen in that crash: if both front and rear wing broke, hamilton would come on far better, and verstappen risked a puncture too.

          1. @esploratore1 Hardly – if both of them had a DNF in Saudi Arabia then Hamilton would have needed 9 points more than Verstappen at Abu Dhabi, effectively meaning a win for him (not unlikely) and no higher than 3rd for Verstappen (less likely). He could not rely on having the fastest lap. This is why he spent most of the race trying to avoid Verstappen.

    3. Verstappen would be 18 points ahead right now if he’d given Hamilton a bit more space in Silverstone lol. Hamilton would definitely have grabbed those points.

      1. Max has been undone by his own agressive driving. He doesn’t see the long term..

      2. I think Max parking his car on Lewis’s head kinda cancels that argument out

        1. Anon A. Mouse
          6th December 2021, 15:04

          People like to forget what happened in Spa and Monza in order to push other narratives.

    4. you mean Spa 2008?

  2. This race was the equivalent of a referee losing control of a match. Race control and stewarding procedures need a hard rethink after this. I don’t think it’s tenable to have the race director out freelancing in front of the stewards.

    1. Hear hear. If anything it must be clear by now this won’t stand anymore. Unacceptable and in need to be fixed before 2022 start.

    2. Excellent comment. Spot on. Michael Masi should not be part of the conversation regarding the F1 WDC, and yet time and time again he is proving to be a media focus. The race director is one person, so should not be the arbiter of what gets reviewed by the race stewards. Equally Masi, an individual, shouldn’t be haggling driver repositioning under threat of “…or I can refer it to the stewards”.

      We need to see a reformation of the process and total removal of any power of the race director, or any other individual, to determine race positions on track. If it takes too long for them to make decisions, improve the tech and increase the number of stewards. F1 is not a sport short of funds. Get it right.

      No offence meant, but F1 needs a new race director for 2022.

    3. Have never seen a race like this. Silliest event I’ve ever seen. Absolutely ridiculous. No words for what I just saw play out.

    4. Jack (@jackisthestig)
      5th December 2021, 21:18

      Great analogy. When that happens in football the officials get given less high-profile matches for the next few weeks so they can lay low and lick their wounds, Masi just stays there slipping further out of his depth as each race passes.

    5. Comment of the day +1

    6. Absolutely agree. Red Bull and Max are beyond the limits of what is acceptable here.

      1. Well, lets not get carried away. If we break it down, the hit will be put to bed as miscommunication. Then there was twice a gaining an advantage situation from Max which were levelled by returning the position. To me then we have an extra 5 sec penalty for Max that is redundant, unless you want to give it since he kept on repeating going aggressive into corner 1 all the time. But this 5s don’t matter for the race result anyway. And I feel lap 43 turn 27 incident Lewis pushing Max wide could be looked at, resulting in probably 5 sec for Lewis, which also won’t matter for the race result. That leaves Bottas slowing down too much in the SC lap. Don’t know the rule book on that one. Brundle seemed convinced it is not allowed. That might be of interest to Ocon

        1. It is odd that Max is calling on all the rules he feels are broken like Bottas and his speed behind the SC. Yet in all his comments later he says there are too many rules and it is all just racing. Can’t have it both ways Max. The thing missing at this track are proper gravel traps as these would stop most of this nonsense racing off the track and cutting corners.

  3. With all honesty, I haven’t seen something like that in almost 20 years of watching Formula 1. Max Verstappen violated any sense of racing logic today and alongside with FIA’s ridiculous handling of the situation, it gave us this farcical battle… For me, Verstappen should have been DSQ’d after this ridiculous showing today.

    1. @miltosgreekfan So much worse than when Ham just drove into the back of him, yeah? If the roles were reversed you’d still be demanding Max’s DSQ and saying Hamilton was giving plenty of room and just trying to give back the position.

      1. You don’t slow down in the middle of the race track to give a place back. Michael Schumacher crashing into David Coulthard in Belgium 1998. David admitted (over 10 years later) that he was in the wrong and that you don’t do that.

        1. You have not seen the entire scene! please, watch the sky cam from a bit behind when VER started slowing down and gave HAM space.. watch it again, but carefully and you will know this comment means

          1. Since when does a driver slow down that much in a place like that to give a place back? Every time I have ever seen it done is obvious and not in the middle of.a.straighr and not by slowing down in the middle of the track while weaving…

        2. It was not in the middle of the track. Please watch onboard of Lewis. I mean, how clearly do you want to have it? And that story of David 1998 is totally different and you know that to. But instead of seeing the truth you just spin it your way to praise Lewis.

          1. Nice try – but there was space to the right as well as the left.

            Also, I think some of the blame here is on race control – surely you tell the driver behind 1st that the car in front will be told to give the place up? It makes sense the Lewis simply didn’t know what was going on.

            Max taking off after the impact also suggests fault, in that he may have been trying to use the DRS line to have a go into turn 1 – which after Belgium 2008, I thought wasn’t acceptable?

          2. Max slowed twice. He accelerated again after the first DRS zone to the next one then virtually stopped just before the area where the track widens.

            At this point Hamilton doesn’t know why Max has stopped, as far he knew it may have been due to a yellow or another red, or something else ahead which he wasn’t yet aware of.

            For a car to virtually stop on the track is simply not done unless there is an accident ahead. This track is new and so unlike any other track on the circuit, that there could well have been another accident ahead.

            The pundits speculating on why Hamilton didn’t drive around max aren’t putting themselves in his position.
            If it had been a yellow or red he would have been disquaified, blacked flagged for dangerous driving.

            Max had the message to give the place back, whilst Hamilton was still waiting for this information. In my opinion that’s kind of down to the stewards. They created that incident with the timing of the information they released to the various parties.

          3. @skydiverian
            The raceline was on the left… How far has Max to move before Lewis understands that he can overtake?

            That is a blame of Mercedes because they were to late telling Lewis. That is what Massi also said. The rest is just guessing from your side. Maybe Max just want to stay close behind Lewis in turn 1. The Mercedes was at the straight 0.3 sec faster from turn 27 to turn 1 so that would make sense right?

            You make a lot of own ideas behind a give a place back move.

        3. János (@meandthewanderlust)
          5th December 2021, 21:15

          You either don’t know the difference between a dry and a wet race or you’re clearly biased and there’s no need to argue then, either…

      2. Michael (@freelittlebirds)
        5th December 2021, 23:02

        @miltosgreekfan Totally agree, it was a clear DSQ. He’s earned a championship DSQ way before Jeddah.

        F1 should go back and redo some of the old championships cause I think a lot of drivers have been hard done in the past.

    2. Then they give Hamilton black and white flags for keeping verstappen from doing an up and under to get by again when he let him by?

      1. Hamilton didn’t get a black and white flag. His team were told he was “close to getting one” which was a joke – yes he ran Verstappen out of road, but he stayed on track while doing it. Notably, neither Verstappen nor Red Bull complained about it.

    3. Take you4 Hamilton tinted glasses off! Footage clearly showed Verstappen pulling right, BEFORE, Verstappen accelerated away!

      1. Why did he accelerate? He was supposed to have been giving the place back… Yet to the millisecond Hamilton hit him he was accelerating away. He knew it was about to happen as he engineered it and he was waiting to accelerate.

    4. Jack (@jackisthestig)
      5th December 2021, 20:26

      Max knows how to race properly, he’s clean as a whistle on iRacing. He drives in this manner in F1 because the race director facilities it.

      1. Really? While I agree race control are facilitating it, he clearly wants to race like this? It is his choice to go off track and come back on dangerously in front of Hamilton?

        1. Jack (@jackisthestig)
          5th December 2021, 22:01

          He wants to win in F1 and surrounded by Horner, Marko and his father he seems to think pushing the limits as far as he is allowed is the best way to go about it. Personally I think it’s Masi and the FIA’s responsibility to to be far stricter with that sort of driving, all they do is adjust the results with time penalties when he’s gone too far.

          I know I’m comparing real life racing with a game but iRacing has a robust, consistent penalty system. Left to his own devices sim racing at home he drives accordingly and is very successful.

    5. What, Verstappen DSQ? For what exactly? For racing? For trying to give back the position three times? If anyone deserves penalties, it is Hamilton. Didn’t drive by safety car rules, ran into the back of his opponent as he didn’t want to give Verstappen DRS, and at the third try he pushed Verstappen on the dirty run-off area when he tried to let him pass for the third time.

      Plus Bottas should be given a penalty for slowing down way too much in the first SC period.

      1. He did not try to give the position back. He was in the middle of the track weaving!

        1. There was more than enough space for a car on the left, as the 2nd and 3rd try to regive the position he was on a similar place on the track. Plus Lewis took the inside line the entire race. I suggest you look at the onboards of lap 42 and 43, which shows Verstappen probably even more in the middle of the track than he was on lap 37, and Lewis had no issue putting his car next to Verstappen on those laps. And weaving? Lol, come on..

      2. If you believe that Verstappen today was “racing”, then I don’t really know what to say.

        Verstappen literally didn’t accept defeat at any of his wheel to wheel situations tonight. He cut across turn 1 when he had lost the place to Hamilton at the first restart and he did the same when Hamilton tried to overtake him(again into turn 1).

        Not only that, but in his mind tonight, doing a “Spa 2008” would work that’s why he tried it twice. He slowed down to let Hamilton go through before the DRS activation point, in order to keep the DRS himself and repass him immediately.. His first attempt failed and resulted in this awkward collision, but he did try the same maneuver again…..

      3. Agreed, Merc played dirty way before anything else that happened, but this stuff goes unnoticed. Max clearly drives tough now, but he is also a bit of a one-man army against uneven odds most of the time.
        Also Max was penalised for a forceful overtake but please check how much Hamilton missed the same apex during an earlier tussle in turn one.. he totally overshot the apex and left no room what so ever for the people on the outside! but again, unnoticed.
        Meanwhile Hamilton whines about them having to fix a wall, as if he has the faintest idea about the level of damage its taken.., whines about Max setting off in the pitlane.., and then purposefully slips outside the 10-car lengths rule.. while happily using his team mate to, against the rules, drive unfairly slow to hinder his opponent.. Then later drives his opponent off track..
        Meanwhile, Max had to slow down -twice- to give a position away that he shouldnt have to give away in the first place – then gets a 5 sec penalty even if the position has been given away. Still takes it quite stoiaclly. The UK has become a nanny state and brought that whiny attitude into F1. Max was driver of the day to the majority of the world, but he unusual onesidedness here seems to indicate the international crowd has simply given up on unbiased dialogue in this forum. Enjoy the RaceFans comments section,

      4. @montalvo You and Verstappen need to read the rules to understand which ones apply to the situation. It isn’t a SC situation nor a formation lap. Those rules don’t apply, Hamilton did nothing wrong.

        As for Hamilton pushing Verstappen wide, how was that different to what Verstappen did in Brazil? Oh wait, it was different because Hamilton kept his car between the white lines. It’s interesting to note that neither Verstappen nor Red Bull complained about that (at least not that was broadcast).

        1. The difference is that both braked later than they normally did. I do feel a penalty could have been given that day. I also feel that that would have been swapping positions, which happened anyways.

          Today Lewis just slowly pushed him outside of the track. Not because he braked later than he did before or was in a outbreaking manouvre, but because it would deny Verstappen of getting a good exit.

          So yes, there is a difference. Cars racing eachother on the edge vs pushing someone wide for the sake of pushing someone wide.

  4. Jack (@jackisthestig)
    5th December 2021, 20:15

    What an utter shambles! Charlie Whiting is sorely, sorely missed.

    1. Absolutely, I don’t think, if Charlie Whiting saw this circuit, it would ever have been given clearance to race.

  5. Those FIA radios of Masi should not have been shown. Those were really silly. This ain’t an auction house? Imma give you 50 pounds of the 200 available, you want that? No, okay, I want 200 pounds since 200 is available. It’s about time the stewards intervened, this race and Monza were the only ones that appear clear cut penalties for #33. If I were Lewis, I’d stay away from Verstappen in Abu Dhabi. I don’t think Verstappen brake tested him, as it appeared a normal lift, unless in the very last second based on the onboard, he slowed down.

    1. I honestly don’t know why Masi doesn’t demand they are not broadcast @krichelle. I can only pit it down to him being a nice guy and not upsetting his seniors. He really does seem like a nice bloke, but sadly he isn’t up to the task. I’ve thought this was since the Mugello farce in 2020.

    2. Michael (@freelittlebirds)
      5th December 2021, 23:08

      @krichelle @john-h

      I’m glad they broadcast them because it shows what we’ve been thinking all along. This championship is Mercedes versus F1. The fact that Lewis is still battling for the championship is simply unbelievable. Lewis knows what’s going on and Max cannot believe he’s not 300 points ahead.

  6. Kudos to Max! before this year i never thought i’d be a Hamilton Fan but the boy has done it!

    1. @mrboerns when Hamilton joined F1 I was rooting for him. When he went to Mercedes I was his fan. His attitude & driving since has made me a non-fan.

      I’m not a Max fan by any means, but Lewis has really been grating on my nerves for years and as far as I am concerned it’s time he lost to an inferior driver.

      1. have to admit i cant remember too much about his early driving. i disliked his style in the Rosberg-hybrid era but since then he has been as clean as one can be in this day and age imho.
        i disliked some of his offtrack persona but in recent Times he has been generally consistent in his views and most of them have been reasonable to me.

      2. “concerned it’s time he lost to an inferior driver” – you lost me there.

        1. I thought it was a rather clever pun

    2. Kudos to Hamilton! Before this year I never thought Id be a Max fan, but thanks to the whiner I now am!

      1. grow up already

        1. Yeah, like your original post was sooo mature, lol :) And honestly, never was a Max fan, but now I geniunely am, so if we are apparently into posting our developing allegiances I dont see why only one side deserves mentioning. Cheers,

  7. Im sorry, but the points situation is just so incredible I don’t believe it wasnt manufactured.

    1. János (@meandthewanderlust)
      5th December 2021, 21:17

      After this season I’m not 100% sure it wasn’t…

      1. After the first red flag, Masi’s bargaining, Brazil’s non-penalty it’s looking more and more likely.

  8. What a mess of a race. From the terribly thought out circuit design to some seriously questionable driving, especially from Max, and some equally questionable stewarding / race directing, this evening’s Grand Prix was just a complete shambles.

  9. 10/10, this race will enter the history, however farcical the decisioning was. I don’t have much knowledge of the title battles in 50s and 60s, but the fight between Verstappen and Hamilton, thanks to races like this, could be hands down the best title fight in history. Just the number of contacts and close encounters we’ve had between these two is crazy.

  10. Masi/Stewards decision to tell Red Bull about the switch before Merc and not vice versa, honestly… Surely you warn the team behind to expect the car in front to slow down? Enough is enough. Masi out.

    1. Or..

      And I know this may be controversial but…

      When you’re behind a car..

      And faster…


      PASS THEM.

      1. He had no idea if it was safe to do so – i.e. whether Verstappen was actually letting him past. The fact Verstappen moved when he did shows Hamilton was correct to assume the worst.

        1. And all the sudden overtaking is something about safety? Lewis was just target fixed on Max. But good to know that Lewis would rather ram then overtake somebody that is slower. Lets hope that he doesn’t catch someone with engine problems…

          1. @ruben

            This is a bizzarre school of thought. Hamilton runs into Max, loses a front wing, has to pit to change the nose, Verstappen wins, Verstappen is world champion. If Hamilton was leading on points I would definitely question the motives. But it’s in Hamilton’s interests to actually finish the race and score points since he was behind in the standings.

      2. The point I was clearly making was about the stewarding communication, not Lewis or Max’s behaviour, so you’ve entered the wrong argument here.

        On the subject you bring up about Lewis and Max… I think both were trying to get advantage of DRS activation zone and so Lewis was just as culpable for that as Max in my opinion. Slap on the wrist for both.

      3. That is not controversial, but just missing the point entirely.
        The instruction is to give the place back, as in give the lasting advantage back. It is not to let the other guy overtake you where you are guaranteed to get the place back at the next corner.

      4. This.. Max was troddling in 4th gear, downshifted to third, and Lewis hesitated for a moment.

        1. if max was serious about giving the place back, then he should keep running off the racing line, you don’t stop or slow to a near hault the way he did. That isn’t how you give the place back.

      5. When you are in a title battle with someone who is known to, at the very least, push the rules to the limits and they suddenly seem to leave the door open, I can completely understand Lewis being hesitant, suspicious and confused. I certainly wouldn’t want to have been alongside Max going into the next corner, and there’s the consideration of the DRS, too.

    2. Masic notified Mercedes but they were to busy with complaining.
      Listen to the fia radio.

      1. Nonsense. Masi claimed “he can only press so many buttons at once” and admitted he didn’t tell them in time.

      2. Once again another commenter completely missing the point…

        Yes, I know that Masi notified Mercedes. My problem is with the order in which they informed the teams, not whether or not they informed Mercedes at all.

      3. Who didn’t have time to relay the message to Bono, let alone Lewis, before the incident happened.

        I agree with Ninjenius – tell the driver behind 1st that the car in front will be told to give the place up, then they can at least expect the slow down, rather than being unsighted. It’s not like Lewis can see through Max’s car, so he may have been cautious because he thought some safety issue was ahead.

        Max does appear to be at fault, but with a significant assist race control – and with the result as it is, I wouldn’t have a problem with them letting it pass if they (race control) accept some, if not the majority, of responsibility.

        That still does leave the question of Max slowing down in the middle of the track rather than essentially against the wall, but that’s a different conversation from the issue raised by Ninjenius.

        1. Order in which teams are notified about “let him through” is completely obvious – it’s common sense. We can see that Hamilton had no problem overtaking second time around, when he was told he was going to be let through.

          And again, we see that Verstappen timed it right and overtook Hamilton immediately after. This blows away from the water the theory that Hamilton knew and wanted to stay behind due to DRS.

          What is most likely is that in a second while it was happening, Hamilton could not compute what was happening. My guess is he was worried if it is a VSC/SC/double yellow and Verstappen lifted off and then started braking/engine braking (he admits he was braking in the interview).

  11. Unbelievable way over the top driving by Max today, I feel he really crossed the line on this one in several occasions. If Lewis didn’t back out of three incidences they came together, am sure one of them would’ve DNF’d.

    1. But you don’t have an issue with Hamilton just driving into the back of Verstappen?
      What if Verstappen had a blown engine?
      There was plenty of room to pass Max, Lewis didn’t want to pass because of DRS.

      1. Yes and for good reason. The instruction is to give the place back, as in give the lasting advantage back. It is not to let the other guy overtake you where you are guaranteed to get the place back at the next corner.

        1. You only have to give an opportunity to pass. If you do not take it its your problem..

          1. Just another erikje lie, this is not true.

          2. Weird how little you posted yesterday erikje. Let’s check the power records for Milton Keynes shall we. Oh look, power outage at the Red Bull technology centre. What a coincidence.

      2. Hamilton was penalised in spa years ago for “improperly giving up place” to raikkonen…

      3. @ChrisVB

        Actually there wasn’t. Davidson showed footage on the Skypad of Max deliberatley parking his car in the middle of the road until the DRS line (This is a narrow track mind you). He reckons it’s a slam dunk penalty.

        1. Did you look at the aerial view? Plenty of room to pass on the left.
          And no, Max wasn’t weaving from right to left.

          Why was Lewis slowing down? Does he need permission of Toto to overtake?

          1. Plenty of room to pass on the left.

            Yet the collision occurred towards the right meaning Max shifted position.

            So in your view- Max made it clear as day where he was going to park his car?

    2. Factually he gained an advantage twice. Both times the position was given back and on top of that a 5s penalty. Let’s not make it any bigger. The hit will be put on miscommunication. Leaves to me the question whether what Bottas did was allowed (the slowing down under SC) and whether the turn 27 incident lap 43 was a fault of Hamilton that was overlooked.

  12. That was an absolute cluster.

  13. So glad there were no champagne or rose water bottles or whatever so someone didn’t get glassed in the podium. That was like a WWE event. But real and actually dangerous.

    1. @dmw well, to be fair, I think more WWE participants have had permanent damage/death in the last 20 years than Formula 1 drivers.

      Care to challenge?

      1. I think you need a break from the screen.

  14. Can someone bring some clarity as to if Max is still under investigation for anything?

    1. The ram from behind is still under investigation I think.

      1. @anunaki Lol indeed, and Verstappen was “penalized” for causing the incident.

    2. There is a possibility for a penalty or reprimand for Lewis.
      His third reprimand would be a hard one..

  15. I’m glad there is only one race left. Once Kimi retires there’s no point watching this 90% soap opera, 10% sports plastic abomination anymore. Will have a lot more free time as well during the weekends so how cool is that!

    1. @huhhii maybe you’ll have time to enjoy some ice cream.

    2. We’ve had our disagreements over the years @huhhii and I have no idea who you are in real life, but if you do leave the scene once Kimi retires I just want to say it’s been a pleasure. Enjoy your free time, I agree the soap opera is starting to grate. Take care man.

      1. @john-h Yeah, it’s been great how some familiar usernames have been here all these years. This is a really cool community with knowledgeable people, like you for example. You don’t have to agree on everything with someone but you can still respect him/her. It’s been pleasure.

        Giving up on F1 is something that feels like a right thing to do now, but let’s see. Might be difficult to stop watching after following the sport for 20+ years. My enthusiasm will surely decrease even if I continue following F1. I’m in favour of budget cap and kinda excited to see how it’ll work but on the other hand there are too many negatives as we saw yesterday. And I hate Sprint format too. Just doesn’t feel like the same sport I fell in love with in the late 90’s.

    3. All the best. Must say you are right. This season proved to me there is not much to watch anymore in terms of racing. It’s heavily scripted and influenced by too many off track stakeholders and interests. Circus. Almost loosing its status as a sport imho.

  16. Verstappen overtook Hamilton around the outside at turn one at the Jeddah Corniche Circuit, but could not stay on track

    Err, no. Verstappen didn’t overtake, maintained position illegally

    On the medium tyres, Verstappen launched into the lead with a forceful block pass into turn one

    There was nothing forceful or borderline about what Max did. It was a beautiful move, Max was in control here.

    1. “beautiful move” is when you have control over the overtake. When you put all the responsibility on the shoulders of the opposite side “give up or we crash” thats dirty and simply stupid

  17. Brundle
    “I think it was a good victory from Lewis Hamilton.

    “Max Verstappen has got to think about his driving standards…it was too much today.”

    1. Brundle has made his affection for HAM winning the championship clear just three days ago. So don’t take his comments for what he says… clearly there is a bias in his comments today

      1. Sikhumbuzo Khumalo
        5th December 2021, 20:54

        Do you think today that Max covered himself with glory in terms of how he drove?

      2. Michael (@freelittlebirds)
        5th December 2021, 23:14

        @hemzshaw are you on medication? Brundle has been Max’s best supporter this season. But even he thought this was egregious.

    2. Hiland (@flyingferrarim)
      5th December 2021, 20:52

      Max’s standards has not changed. It’s been like that all this time. Just everyone enjoyed it because its “exciting” and “hard racing”! Since Brundle’s countryman, Lewis, is getting maxi-pad’ed all the time he’s just realizing how dangerous Max really is with his over the top overtakes/defenses and expects everyone to back off mentality. This style of driving was first in uproar with Leclerc in Austria a few years back and he’s continued to drive in this manner without any real repercussion. You can argue he’s gotten worse.

    3. Nell (@imabouttogoham)
      5th December 2021, 22:21

      I’d like to hear what the Dutch commentators were saying. Unfortunately the best English-speaking F1 coverage is from the UK, who has its greatest driver in contention, so bias is inevitable.

  18. There’s onboard footage of Max downshifting to 4 or 3 and then speeding off after the impact. I don’t what Max was trying to do but when letting Lewis by later there was no downshift, just a lift. With the closing rate at these speeds it certainly seems that Max slowed unnecessarily when a lot easily let’s another car past. Looking forward to the radio transcripts prior to this moment.

    1. Hiland (@flyingferrarim)
      5th December 2021, 20:44

      I put more blame on Lewis/Merc. Lewis could have blown past much earlier without any issue. Instead he slowed down and stayed right behind Max not knowing what to do. Max slowed down more probably waiting for Lewis to get by but not taking it. I think Max was getting a little impatient with how long it was taking Lewis to just pass him. I chalk that down to poor communication across the FIA and Merc as Max was doing what his team asked of him. After getting hit I think Max was like okay I’m taking off.

      1. Hiland (@flyingferrarim)
        5th December 2021, 20:45

        maybe more blame on the FIA. Hard to say as we get zero insight on that back and forth.

        1. @flyingferrarim

          Max was parked in the middle of the road until the DRS line.

          1. Hiland (@flyingferrarim)
            5th December 2021, 20:58

            So what if Max wanted to have Lewis pass him prior to the DRS line. No rule regarding that. That is fine. Lewis fiddle farted to pass him and it resulted in what it resulted. If Lewis knew about Max letting him by, I think Lewis would have blown past and that would have been the end of it. Lewis was also slowing down has Max was slowing to allow him past regardless of the DRS detection line.

          2. @flyingferrarim

            No rule regarding that.

            Actually there is a rule about that “lasting advantage”. Hamilton was penalised in 2008 for doing exaxctly that to Kimi as @Davethechicken kindly reminded me.

          3. Hiland (@flyingferrarim)
            5th December 2021, 21:22

            I think the difference was that Lewis gave Kimi the position back after the bus stop going on the front straight. Then Passed him on that same straight going into turn 1 (no DRS in 2008). So the event of giving position back and then gaining said position on the same straight was the “lasting advantage”. So in short… Lewis never “fully” gave the position back. In this situation, Lewis and Max would have driven through one corner. That is a big difference. If Lewis passed Kimi after turn 1, then that would be ok.

            DRS is always a “lasting advantage” regardless. Hate this DRS stuff!

          4. @flyingferrarim
            I disagree that there is any real difference. Unless they can show that they would definitely have been in DRS range, having DRS for the next straight is a lasting advantage in itself. It vastly reduces the amount of time it takes to travel down the straight. Playing tactics with the DRS line when giving a place back is no different to passing straight back like that.

          5. Hiland (@flyingferrarim)
            5th December 2021, 22:08

            If they drive through one corner after giving position up. That in my book constitutes as satisfactory. Now, personally, DRS should go as its an unfair advantage on its own. We can agree to disagree, but my view has always been give position up and go through one corner and its race on again. Regardless of DRS.

          6. @flyingferrarim Verstappen slowed in the middle precisely to make it uncertain for Hamilton which side he, Hamilton, should go, given that Verstappen might pull to one side at any moment.
            That was very deliberate.

          7. Hiland (@flyingferrarim)
            5th December 2021, 22:39

            I don’t disagree that Max could have made it more obvious, but there was plenty of room on the left throughout that instance where Lewis could have passed without issue. I think if Lewis knew what Max was doing, I think this situation would not even happened regardless as Lewis would have been looking for that. That is my point.

          8. @flyingferrarim My point is that he didn’t know what Max was doing (FIA’s fault) and he doesn’t trust Max to not do something wild (Max’s fault). He made that totally clear afterwards. If Max is playing about with letting him past, not making it clear that he’s ceding position, then surely it is a motive for suspicion in itself? I mean, Lewis knowing that if he gets a DNF, Max wins the championship. If they both go out, Max minimizes his losses. It’s obviously not hard to be a bit ‘uncertain’ about the risk of passing in that situation.

          9. @flyingferrarim

            If they drive through one corner after giving position up. That in my book constitutes as satisfactory.

            So, ignoring your feelings on DRS (which I suspect are the same as mine) you don’t count it as a lasting advantage if they get DRS in a place they probably wouldn’t have otherwise and take the position only because of that? If so, I would say we have very different definitions of “lasting advantage”.

            I’d agree with you about one corner being adequate most of the time, as long as they don’t pick up DRS.

  19. Aah, the only positive here is that they finished on track and they go to the last race tied for points.

    As for everything else.. What a mess. Man I wonder if Charlie Whiting is smirking from heaven, happy that he need not be in charge of sorting this out.

  20. Most irritating race ever. That wasnt fun at all. For sure it wasnt racing.

    Now i truly miss Charlie. Masi offering a penalty for Red Bull to accept it or not was as pathetic as it gets.

    1. Very well said- my thoughts exactly. Masi is out of his depth.

      1. To be fair, this is no different to the standard order to give the place back, except some under the red flag. The team always have the option of ignoring it, in which case it is down to the stewards to investigate and penalise. It just sounded worse due to the red flag and the wording of the conversation. It should never have been broadcast.

        1. @drmouse At one point we got to hear Red Bull say they would ‘consider’ Masi’s ‘offer’ for P2, thinking he meant behind Ocon, ahead of Hamilton. Then it dawned on even them that it was a tad generous, so they asked for clarification, ‘you mean Max P2 with Hamilton P3, right’? Eh, no…

        2. @drMouse Exactly. I thought it was pretty smart and only afforded thanks to the red flag. If they’d been racing, it would have just been a time penalty for Verstappen.

    2. It’s often given as an offer to hive the place back rather than wait for the penalty. It was a bit odd to hear this with the cars parked after the red flag perhaps, but I’d say that offer was the least worrying of the whole race.

      The fact that Verstappen caused 3 blatantly intentional incidents in one race and pretty much gets away with it is much more galling.

  21. This is what happens when the rules are seen as malleable and arguable. While Max did some questionable driving, the fault lays squarely at F1 governance and FIA officials for valuing excitement over clear rules that are enforced equally.

    But, that is what arguably all the “best” seasons have arguably had. High drama and either borderline or actual cheating.

    To answer the old question of “What is the DNA of F1?” This is has to be a part of it.

    1. Very good point.

    2. Jack (@jackisthestig)
      5th December 2021, 20:55

      It beggars belief doesn’t it? Officiating at club-level racing in the UK relying on a radio at each marshal’s post and a decent view from race control seems far more effective than what has been going on in F1 lately.

  22. Ok, few points here:

    – first (double) pitstop of Mercedes was very dirty from sportsmanship perspective, they received full karma when Verstappen got free pitstop under the red flag
    – the move on Hamilton after the first restart was stupid yet life-saving from Verstappen. Had he stayed careful on the brakes, Bottas would have very possibly hit him, and I’m not sure it would be fully unintentional. Say what you want about Verstappen’s move, it saved the championship battle for us.
    – deciding about the grid under the red flag was farcical. Yeah, Verstappen should cease the position to Hamilton but we’ll leave Ocon ahead because…? Very bad decisions from Masi. On the other hand, crying about the first red flag is unsubstantiated since the barried was really badly damaged.
    – three virtual safety cars were totally unecessary and mismanaged from the race direction perspective. One full safety car would fully clear the track in four laps.
    – and the dance towards the end from Verstappen mainly…well, you have to give something to him. It’s very easy for us to judge from TV, but I can imagine how hard it was to keep such a frantic pace on the mediums, and the snap of understeer for which he received a 5 second penalty can be atributed to that. Brilliant racing from Hamilton. He escaped DNF thanks to his masterly reactions 2 or 3 times today.
    – and that ceasing of position…well, that was shambolic. No one really knew what was happening and I don’t fully get why the penalty was given when Verstappen gave Hamilton the position twice. But seeing those reactions in the Mercedes garage, that was absolutely unreal. This is once in a decade season.

    1. @pironitheprovocateur

      but we’ll leave Ocon ahead because…?

      Because that’s how it works. Had there been no caution, Max would’ve been required to give the position back to Hamilton, which means letting both Ocon & Hamilton pass.

    2. I agree. I noticed that second point you made as well. Would have been a massive hit from Bottas on Max. It was millimeters there

    3. I really don’t like VSC. I do not see the point. Only time I would use it if SC is taking too long to deploy.

      VSC neutralizes the race but the drivers are preocuppied driving to the delta and minimizing distance from the car in front. It’s still relatively unsafe for marshalls, if you slow down by 40% on a track where average is over 200km/h, it’s still fast. SC at least gives opportunity to do some bunching up. I know it’s usually slower to deploy and restart but it is also much safer and offers more racing opportunities.

      VSC just helps the cars in front.

  23. Hiland (@flyingferrarim)
    5th December 2021, 20:36

    I actually don’t find the director “refereeing” in this instance since usually teams get three laps to give a position back. In this situation it went straight to red flag conditions pretty quickly. So I think this was fine for this situation. In any normal situations, then yes I agree.

    Now this race was a complete disgrace to F1! First off, this track is not safe nor suitable for F1. Second, at what point do we recognize that touching cars (aka making repairs) and making “free Pitstops” under red flag conditions seems fair? For the last three seasons we’ve seen several races that go under red flag conditions that unfairly gift competitors a second life for a result or a free stop. This needs to stop. No other categories that I’m aware of allow this. Thirdly, the race management was awful as the officials where slow at responding with debris all over the track (a track as high speed with walls like that). Very disappointing. Fourth, Now Max’s erratic driving is nothing new and has been allowed since the uproar between Max and Charles in Austria a few years back. Sorry, this is all on the series for allowing such driving antics for so long. The can of worms was opened and now this is what we got. Giving no racing room and just pushing others off track! This is not racing! Fifth, the un-sportsman like attitude from Merc (as a whole) is incredible. Using Bottas to back Max up leading up to the first SC pit stops. Then Lewis taking a half century to get his butt lined up on the grid making Max sit and wait (maybe part of the rules but still is un-sportsman like behavior). This is not the first time we’ve seen Merc put on shenanigan’s like this. I feel bad for Bottas as he is rarely able to get a fair shake and is seen as completely dispensable. I’m not big on Bottas but man, that guy never gets a shot on that team. Even Ferrari in its Schuey era was that cunning all the time (and they had their moments)!

    1. Hiland (@flyingferrarim)
      5th December 2021, 20:37

      edit: Even Ferrari in its Schuey era was NOT that cunning all the time (and they had their moments)!

    2. I think this is a fair assessment @flyingferrarim. On balance I still feel Mercedes seem to play a little fairer overall compared to Red Bull, however they are certainly not as squeaky clean as they claim they are. I also didn’t enjoy Bottas holding up before the pit stops, that was poor and should have been penalised. Unfortunately Masi has lost control of the situation.

      1. And then add Bottas restart lap 15. Talking about close. Hungary 2.0

        1. No one takes you seriously.

      2. Hiland (@flyingferrarim)
        6th December 2021, 2:44

        I agree that RBR plays some of these games, but in most cases it’s usually Max against both Mercs so RBR doesn’t usually get the opportunity to play many of these games Merc does. I also don’t think RBR is quite as blatant with it as Merc has been. Maybe my mind has gotten a little foggy on that as my perspective of Merc has soured over the course of this season. For a Merc team that claimed they want competition for several years, they seem to do a lot of petty whining when it comes knocking on their door. For some time I thought Honor was the worst, but Toto takes the cake for sure after seeing this season!

        1. Yep, they’re both pretty unbearable tbh @flyingferrarim, Horner and Toto. It got a little personal.

  24. Watching SKY F1 and Anthony Davidson’s analysis of Max letting/not letting Lewis by. He points out that Max was delaying until the DRS line so he could replicate what he did later on when he did actually let him by. That explains why he parked in the middle until the last moment. That alone for me is a slam dunk penalty.

    1. Davethechicken
      5th December 2021, 20:52

      The re-passing before the next corner is a 25sec penalty. Spa 08 is the precedent

      1. +1. I forgot about that. If Merc have their wits about them they will bring up the Kimi/Hamilton incident

      2. Jack (@jackisthestig)
        5th December 2021, 20:59

        Well, the Moseley/Dennis Spygate episode may have had a slight bearing on the severity of that penalty

      3. Nell (@imabouttogoham)
        5th December 2021, 22:16

        I thought of the same incident…back then I thought Hamilton was very clever in maneuvering in Spa, and that the penalty was unfair. At least they should be consistent (and they were?)

      4. But that wouldn’t have been what happened: They would have gone over the DRS line with Verstappen within 1s, gone through the final corner, then Max would have taken the place back under DRS on the pit straight. IMO that’s still “gaining a lasting advantage” from the original incident, but it doesn’t fall foul of the “passing before the next corner” rule.

    2. Read the rulebook. You only have to create a decent passing option.
      Max did that, twice even!
      Of course as soon as you have being told to do so.
      Max did that, twice
      So stop complaining and educate Mercedes to give the news on time. And Hamilton for just passing max and not downshifting and crash.

      1. No offence, but I won’t be taking any advice from you. You are as unreasonable as it gets on these forums- I remember you defending Max when he made disparaging remarks about disabled people and when he tried to attack Ocon in Brazil. Trying to have a sensible debate with you of all people is a futile exercise.

        1. Sounds like if you can’t counter the argument, you just attack the messenger

          1. @ChrisVB

            Why engage with someone you know can’t engage in a balanced debate? Doesn’t mean there is no counter argument as you’d like to believe

          2. @ChrisVB

            I also note you have no valid counter argument for my reasons as to not engage with @erikje. If so kindly make your position clear as well as to whether you condone the disparaging remarks and physical attack on Ocon and I will gladly take a dim view of wasting time debating with you as well.

  25. I don’t have an issue with the way race control handled the positions swap at the second red flag. However I have changed opinion regarding the standing restarts as indeed with this track it’s kind of an invitation for further incidents (even though I prefer standing starts than rolling ones, after a red flag).

    But the main point for me this race is that Max went overboard. He had stepped and crossed the lines before but maybe because I wanted him to win this year I considered aggressive but still somewhat acceptable but doing it repeatedly in the same race is too much now for me. The same tactics he used before on turn 1 are too much and then that screw-up on the straight… One can ask why Lewis didn’t overtake immediately but Max’s manouver was so weird that I understand he got confused. It just seems really weird to me to give position in that manner, staying in the middle of the raid and even seemingly swerving a bit (that is the opinion I got but will see additional replays to be sure). Other drivers give away positions and Max does it so weird that it causes a collision and then proceeds on the basis that “ah Lewis didn’t want to pass so I’ll just move on”? He’s a hell of a driver with great skills but he does all to prevent being overtaken and that is too much…

    I see that I lost a bit the thread of my thoughts during this comment but well, is just how disappointed I am that he got this bad between them.
    It’s nothing new in the sports and maybe unavoidable but personally I would prefer to be a fierce fight like it is but without this uglyness (and I include the teams bickering and bitching).

    And gutted that Ocon was beaten right at the line…

    1. +1. To be honest close title fights always turn ugly whether they are intra team or inter team.

    2. Indeed. Standing restarts are all for entertainment and nothing to do with sport. Race starts should be at the start of the race only. That also makes them more special.

  26. I think Fia has dropped the ball this season in terms of “being above” and clearly tried too hard to “keep drama going” by encouraging dirty driving and let Max walking away too easy on several occasions.
    Now they have got themselves cornered because every descision on eqch driver will be viewed as “bias” and descisive in the title battle

  27. This is a total sh show of a track… helf the time it’s a vsc, red flag.. there is no scope for proper racing for a sufficient length of time..

    The kingdom has the whole desert country to themselves and this narrow crap is what they could come up with..

    I’m a fan of both RBr and merc , but this win for LH (i have been his fan since mclaren) gave me no pleasure at all..

    Total sh show….

    1. I said this track would be a joke last week. Not sure why someone outside if F1 could see it, yet so called millionaire professionals were ignorant to it.

      It was only pure luck that we didn’t have a massive accident today. If they go back next year to the same configuration they’ll be just as high a chance.

  28. why bottas wasn’t penalized when he slowed all the cars while they were under the safety car in order to be able to pit and not lose the position to Verstappen. That is not allowed. He should be penalized.
    If you hit someone from behind you are always at fault. Also Lewis needed to be more focused with what was going on. Why he didn’t pass Verstappen when he let him space to pass him back, also why Hamilton wasn’t investigated when he left more than 10 meter of space between him and Verstappen at the standing start? And why bottas wasn’t penalized when he was driving really slow in qualifying and because of that he and raikkonen crashed into him and the wall? Mercedes ilegal rear wing, they used the excuses of having engine problems when in fact they were using that excuse to get engines with better performance. They are a tricky team.

    1. Let me pick your mind here based on this:

      why bottas wasn’t penalized when he slowed all the cars while they were under the safety car in order to be able to pit and not lose the position to Verstappen. That is not allowed. He should be penalized.


      If you hit someone from behind you are always at fault.

      Assuming Verstappen had hit Bottas when he slowed down under the safety car, whose fault would it have been according to you?

  29. Max lost like 60+ points because 3 incidents right? He should have been Champion already.

    Yet sadly enough the second best driver of the Season will most likely win the Championship.. Sad day for Racing that will be. When Hamilton Wins the Championship because of what he did at Silverstone.

    1. Oh my…
      So it’s either “lewis did it wrong in silverstone” or “max was right in imola” pick one

    2. He hasn’t lost anywhere near 60 points. Gained some for his crash in Monza and was gifted more at Spa.

      Had he not messed up his lap in qualifying he could have won the race but he made his own mistake.

    3. Nell (@imabouttogoham)
      5th December 2021, 22:13

      He’s also “lucked in” to a few things, I dare say almost as much as he’s “lucked out”.

      That Mick Schumacher crash was very fortuitous for Max. So was the non-penalty in Brazil. Then there was the rain in Sochi, and the wash-out in Spa.

      Granted he was taken out in Hungary and his tire blew out in Baku.

      I’m not going to calculate the points lost here and there, my point is that I believe it all balances out in the end, if it doesn’t well that’s racing. Hamilton’s engine blew out in 2016 in Sepang, Peter Collins handed his car over to Fangio, etc.

    4. Michael (@freelittlebirds)
      5th December 2021, 23:22

      marty you should watch another sport – F1 is too complex for you if you can’t tell that Lewis is better than Max when Max is the worst driver of all time and Lewis is the best driver of all time.

    5. Verstappen was driving under allowed tyre pressures in Baku and his tyre burst because of that. So that was his own fault.
      Verstappen was partly to blame for that crash in Silverstone. Hamilton as far enough alongside and yet Verstappen simply turned in on him.
      Hungary was poor from Bottas, but Verstappen simply should have gotten pole there and he would have been out of reach.

  30. With a couple of seasons like this F1 will soon become the new wrestling, just fake entertainment with a bit of aggression.

  31. Second time Ham tried to put Ver out of action. Bad behavior from Sir Cryington

    1. I guess fans of cheap beer are arriving

    2. Yeah cost that would make total sense, Max needs to learn from the backmarkers how to let the faster driver past.

    3. I don’t actually think a crash would benefit Hamilton @pietkoster. He was 8 points behind in the championship.

    4. Your drunk

    5. @pietkoster I’m sure you are just parroting the Dutch TV crying, but any sane person would see it’s Verstappen who intentionally causes 3 incidents. This is beyond dirty driving!

  32. Just popping in here to Hamilton central to see what level of delusion we’re operating at. It hasn’t disappointed.

    1. Nell (@imabouttogoham)
      5th December 2021, 22:08

      The comment above you is literally this

      “Pjotr (@pietkoster)
      5th December 2021, 21:29

      Second time Ham tried to put Ver out of action. Bad behavior from Sir Cryington”

  33. Well in the end the faster and better driver won the race on track. Despite everything FIA and Verstappen threw at him (in MV’s case, his car, as usual). LH 1, MV 2, VB 3 was my guess for the finishing order. Not sure I quite envisaged how it panned out.

  34. It was indeed a calamitous race, and the communication between Masi and RB negotiating an offer to swap positions or send the issue to the marshalls was just the icing on the cake. What a complete disaster.
    Now, the lengths that Max’s fans are ready to go to justify his antics are just plainly hilarious!!!!

  35. I have not understood why Verstappen let Hamilton by for the second time.
    Were his tyres already done? I do not think so, as he got the position back fairly easily, although it all was done in a very planned and calculated manner.

    Similar things were done in this season by other drivers, although likely not at his exaggerated manner. So where is the limit, is there an actual rule, how quickly one can re-pass?

    Was he explicitly told to let him by again, because what he have done as “letting by” was insufficient? What is the exact rule about the timing of the re-pass attempt?

    Imo as other drivers gave positions back and re-passed with fair ease at this season already, they could work on this rule a bit, they could come up with a somewhat smarter one. Because the effect of the “after/at the next corner” is quite track and situation dependent, and not very consistent. Maybe it would be better to require things like this: stay behind in the current and the next sector, or stay behind for 15 seconds before a re-pass attempt.

    Given by that time Hamilton’s front wing was severely damaged, I have not understood the ease with he gave up there. Probably the incoming 5 seconds penalty contributed to that, but this alltoghether was very confusing to me.

    If he had to let him by at some moment, or else to take an 5 seconds penalty, could not he have tried to pull an 5 seconds gap against the damaged front winged opponent?

    1. As a solution, from the point of view of Red Bull, I would have let Hamilton by as soon as possible, to have as much life in the mediums as possible, as the car with the damaged front wing should have been an easier pray and there still were a good amount of laps to retake the lead.

  36. I cannot believe the farcical race I witnessed today! Massi giving out insider deals (Sure he can do that but still…), Max having almost no reprecussions for his immature inability to accept defeat, Hamilton running into the back of Max due to team miscommunication.

    As much as this track is absolutely mind-blowing, the racing from Redbull was just as pathetic (mostly Max – Poor perez :'(…). I cant believe Max wasn’t disqualified for his poor handling of losing position in T1 at the restart and then slowing down before a DRS straight so badly that Hamilton got confused and ran into the back of him. I am sorry but there is NEVER a time when you should drive so confusing that the driver behind you gets confused as to what is happening on track and runs into you.

    I try to be extremely impartial to anyone and only judge someone on their driving alone. If Lewis did this, I would light him up till the sun comes up. However, I just cannot forgive Max’s sheer desperation today. I have lost all my respect for him at this point.

    Now equal on points, i fear that Max will try to crash into Hamilton (as he does MANY MANY times) and win the championship because of the fact that he has more race wins. If you had your eyes open this entire season, you know that RedBull is a team that would stoop this low to win the driver’s championship.

    AH I don’t like seeing the sport I love wittle down to so little. We need better stewards and better punishment for the lack of racing professionalism.

  37. Wow – Judging people based on their name. My name is Moe Abdul Aziz Aziz. Tell me, what are your thoughts on that? Hmm?

  38. Whoever you support you’d have to agree that both of them drove pretty scrappy today.

    Ever since Ham said he’d no longer let Max through he’s gone too far and defended at all costs. On the other hand Max needs to pick his overtakes a bit better and think of the entire race and points.

    1. Michael (@freelittlebirds)
      5th December 2021, 23:19

      If they gave a single point for each time Lewis has avoided a crash with Max this season, he’d have won the championship already. Max is the worst F1 driver of all time. He has no clue how to drive under pressure.

    2. We know Max drove scrappy, not sure Lewis was that bad

  39. @barryfromdownunder You comment says a lot more about you than any race steward.

  40. This championship is great, just don’t want Max to spoil it with his desperate moves

  41. If I were not a ‘fan’ I think I may have considered this race enjoyable simply down to the drama involved, but in reality this was only tenuously a ‘sporting’ event.

    Yes, I have favourite drivers, but regarding the front two I was disappointed with aspects of both LH and MV today.

    Perhaps even more disappointed with race direction and stewarding. Aside from some questionable decisions I was also perplexed by what appeared to be ‘appropriate’ track limits/overtaking policing. Of course I should be happy with this, but it seems at odds with the rather unapologetic stance taken by the officials in recent times.

    As for the track. Well I suppose there were ‘some’ overtakes and – fortunately – no incidents caused major harm. Still, I don’t see why such a track is necessary. Would the championship be diminished without it?

    Ultimately I am thankful this wasn’t the decider. Fingers crossed the last race is exciting for the right reasons.

  42. They are both dirty.

    Simple game theory. Officiating leaves enough blur, you have to take it to win.

    This is not good racing. This is not “best season” material. It is cheap thrills. And it is on F1 itself as much as the drivers. And young karters are watching this and will mimic this. Not good.

    1. 100%

      Both are scrappy, desperate drivers who at times appear out of their depth and show little class as the so-called ‘best’. Throw them together and messy near misses and clashes are inevitable. Both are far too ego driven to truly respect the other.

      Can guarantee if you swapped out Alonso with either of them, the racing would be hard but far and importantly clean.

  43. I was amazed with the pretty much spot on stewarding though. At least they penalized drivers where it was warranted and let it slip when it was a racing incident.

    Unfortunately the penalties mean nothing to Verstappen and they are indeed not severe enough to discourage causing incident after incident with dirty driving. Especially when for Verstappen it’s much more beneficial if he crashes rather than continue to actually race. So yeah “let them race” and stamp out the dirty driving!

    With Verstappen causing 3 intentional incidents in one race, why does he not receive a black flag? When is enough enough?

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