Schumacher hoping for consistent points finishes in 2022

29 comments on “Schumacher hoping for consistent points finishes in 2022”

1. 

   RandomMallard
   19th February 2022, 0:06

   COTD is an interesting concept for sure. I think I agree most with the final sentence if I’m honest. Something just doesn’t seem inherently right about it, although I struggle to pinpoint exactly what it is.
   1. 

      drmouse (@drmouse)
      19th February 2022, 0:27

      It could be done, but it would be complicated, especially for small gaps. It would also run into problems for those who were just coming up to be lapped, as they would be sat waiting for nearly a whole lap and then doing a standing start with the leader approaching at full speed.

      It is an interesting concept, though, and worth investigation if it could be implemented well.
   2. 

      Bullfrog (@bullfrog)
      19th February 2022, 1:12

      There isn’t a green light… I think they got rid of it after it failed to come on at a Grand Prix some time in the 90s!
      1. 

         Oskari
         19th February 2022, 5:09

         Yes there is, they signal the start of the formation lap with green lights
   3. 

      The Dolphins
      19th February 2022, 1:23

      It could be easily implemented if each Safety Car period ended with a VSC and the delta set to the drivers matched the gap at the point which the Safety Car was deployed.
      1. 

         RandomMallard
         19th February 2022, 8:20

         That’s actually…. a really sensible idea. Kudos
   4. 

      OOliver
      19th February 2022, 9:11

      F1 used to be that way until some years back. They said it caused confusion because you can have a car finish behind the leader but still end up being the winner. Then by the time you start adding pit stops and penalties if any, the calculations then become quite much.
      1. 

         S
         19th February 2022, 11:28

         F1 used to be that way until some years back.

         They used to use an aggregate system, where they would note the time gaps between cars when the race was stopped and then ‘correct’ the final race results using those earlier gaps.
         It wasn’t just confusing – it was ridiculous. The order on the track after the restart didn’t actually reflect what the results would be.

         But that’s not what the CotD was suggesting.
   5. 

      Keith Campbell (@keithedin)
      19th February 2022, 12:12

      There’s quite a bit of a safety issue with having cars lined up stationary on the grid while the leaders are bombing round at racing speed. If a car fails to get off the line or was over a minute behind the leader and about to be lapped anyway then they will just be starting when the leader comes through at 150+mph. So they would have to set the tail enders off earlier in some way. If they were going to do something like this, then it would be better to use the VSC to reset the gaps to what they were at the end of the safety car period so all cars are moving at similar speeds by the time the race is green lit.

      However, I’m not sure any such ‘fairness’ solution is necessary. As long as the safety car is used in the correct way and according to the rules, I don’t mind the occasional race getting an injection of excitement by some drivers gaining some sort of advantage over others. There would probably never be a solution that is 100% equitable whatever they do and current rules are less open to abuse than some in the past (like closing the pitlane).
2. 

   cduk_mugello (@cduk_mugello)
   19th February 2022, 0:23

   Sorry but what has happened to this site?! How is that COTD?
   1. 

      Euro Brun (@eurobrun)
      19th February 2022, 1:55

      Only thing wrong is that it was already discussed here over a week ago! It’s not perfect, but I kinda like it.
      Drivers can be given custom blue flag warnings on their steering wheel, so why not a green flag indication?
      It’s not even the stupidest idea compared to some that F1 has legitimately adopted!
   2. 

      Will Wood (@willwood)
      19th February 2022, 9:32

      @cduk_mugello Because it was novel idea that I found pretty interesting to consider.

      I mean, I would not want to see it in Formula 1 or in any major motorsport myself, but COTD is not ‘consensus of the day’ and it’s not about what I find the most agreeable – it’s about contributing something of value to a discussion, whether that’s summing up a complex topic in an elegant way, a particularly witty take or something that makes you think.

      It’s also about bringing attention to comments worth reading that a lot of readers might have missed – the original comment didn’t receive many replies, but look how many people are talking about it in the comments of this page.

      I love reading everyone’s creative ideas about how to improve motorsport. I’d encourage everyone to share their wild and wacky ideas if they genuinely think it would enhance racing.

      Just not double points races.

      Anyone suggesting a double points finale will be immediately banned.
      1. 

         Red Andy (@red-andy)
         19th February 2022, 12:40

         @willwood

         Anyone suggesting a double points finale will be immediately banned.

         Finally, a proposal we can all get behind.
      2. 

         Esploratore (@esploratore1)
         20th February 2022, 11:50

         Wow, that’s harsh, even for such a horrible idea!
3. 

   Ohm
   19th February 2022, 2:36

   Re COTD I know what’s “wrong” with your interesting idea…FIA would say it’s better for the show if cars are bunched up together 😓

   Another interesting idea I heard floating around was to stop the lap countdown during VSC/SC period so number of laps under green flags is maintained. The teams would have to predict for this and add enough fuel before the race to cover the VSC/SC period.
4. 

   Red Andy (@red-andy)
   19th February 2022, 7:21

   Honestly, I wonder if some people on here wouldn’t be happier watching some kind of time trial, to avoid the possibility of any cars running close to one another.

   Safety Cars are part of racing. Yes, there are always somewhat arbitrary winners and losers, but it’s a strategic curveball and an added challenge for the teams and drivers to overcome.

   There’s a reason why races with one or two Safety Car interruptions are generally more exciting than those without. We’ve got over a decades’ worth of race ratings on this site to prove it.
   1. 

      S
      19th February 2022, 8:51

      Honestly, I wonder if some people on here wouldn’t be happier watching some kind of time trial, to avoid the possibility of any cars running close to one another.

      Indeed, @red-andy.
      But when the suggestion is made to run qualifying as a solitary hot-lap time trial, they say they don’t like that because it would be boring and anticlimactic.
      Contradiction is the stereotypical F1 fan’s style. And idealism, of course…
5. 

   Jere (@jerejj)
   19th February 2022, 7:48

   Consistent & or regular points-finishes might prove unachievable on raw pace no matter how well Haas gets the new aero rules.

   Azerbaijan GP: Of course, never in doubt.

   COTD’s suggestion reminds me of some classic car scenario modes in more recent official games.
   I’m unsure how practical such a thing would be IRL, but perhaps doable.
6. 

   Diez Cilindros (@diezcilindros)
   19th February 2022, 8:36

   COTD throws a good idea, but I think it misses a lot of points:

   a) If your position and gap are determined just when the SC comes out, you will pit for new tyres and everybody will do that. The rest of the race would be a boredom fest with cars spaced around the track at the same strategy. In this case, the whole idea of the SC would be useless; why keep them doing laps? Just stop on the grid and from then make the start procedure you propose.

   Obviously, closing the pit lane during the SC is not an idea because during a SC you can carry broken parts or a puncture caused by debris.

   b) What happens if the SC is deployed in the exact moment a driver is through the pit lane? Are you going to use the gaps at the previous lap? It is equally possible to have a driver pitting at that time. Besides, taking the previous lap would invalidate any overtaking manouevre performed that lap; just imagine how controversial would have been a SC few seconds after a HAM-VER pass…

   c) It’s not a good idea to have a “stimule” to push just before a SC deployment in order to reduce the gaps, because these are critical seconds with debris/cars/marshals on track.

   d) Last but not least (possibly, “most”): F1 wants closer racing. Any excuse to nullify gaps is preferred.
7. 

   F1 frog (@f1frog)
   19th February 2022, 9:01

   I do believe that F1 should be a sport before a show, and so the amount of luck involved should be kept to a minimum, and for this reason I am very much against throwing red flags for the sake of entertainment and think they should only be used when they are necessary for safety reasons. Saudi was an example of a race when the luck from the red flag played a huge part. As well as this issue with tyres, a standing start at the end of the race obviously is a great chance to make up positions, and I don’t think that is right when, unlike the start of a race, there is no time to make up what was lost on the standing start. I am not suggesting getting rid of the standing start on lap one as it is a great feature and one of the most exciting parts of the race, but it would be far better if any red flags were instead followed by rolling starts.

   However, the safety car is different, because luck plays less of a part, and strategy becomes more important. Yes, Lewis Hamilton was unlucky to lose a big lead in Abu Dhabi, but had the race been one lap longer, the mistake would have been on the Mercedes team for not pitting him. Verstappen may have been given a better chance and was always going to do the opposite, but ultimately the lead driver is the one who chooses the strategy and the one behind has to base theirs on the lead driver, in this case doing the opposite. In the case of Abu Dhabi, the farce came because the rules weren’t followed and there wasn’t time for a restart, yet one happened anyway, but in slightly different circumstances it could have been completely fair and the mistake would have been Mercedes’.
   The only time a safety car can really change the driver with the best chance to win is in situations like Australia 2018 (which was a VSC) because it takes less time to make a pit stop, but that could be considered a gamble to stay out and ‘goal hang’ for a safety car. I don’t particularly like it when this happens, but it’s far less likely than with a red flag. The other situation is China 2018 or Hungary 2014 when the leaders have passed the pits before the safety car is called, and this can be easily rectified with a rule, ‘under safety car conditions, no driver can make a pit stop until the lead driver has passed the pits or entered them.’

   To summarise, unlike with a red flag, a safety car usually bunches drivers up and gives those behind a better chance, but the advantage still lies with the previous leader. So it makes it more exciting without being too unfair. And the importance of quick strategy increases massively, which is a good feature of F1. And the occasional Australia 2018 is a necessary evil to endure for the aforementioned positives that the normal safety car rules bring. Please keep the safety car, and ditch the unnecessary red flags, or at least have rolling starts after them instead of standing starts.
   1. 

      OOliver
      19th February 2022, 9:23

      Mercedes made their decision based on the number of laps remaining and the established protocols.
      Had the race several more laps available their decision would have been different.
      1. 

         S
         19th February 2022, 11:05

         Mercedes made their decision based on the number of laps remaining and the established protocols.

         The incident could have been cleared one lap earlier and the race restarted on the lap that it actually was, so Mercedes would still have been wrong.
         Likewise if the FIA had left the lapped cars in place and Hamilton still lost due to poor tyre performance…

         Mercedes’ strategy was wrong in the specific circumstances (including the ones the FIA and teams agreed to which weren’t published officially). They had it all to lose, and they did – through a little bit of bad luck with the SC timing compounded by their own poor strategic choice.
      2. 

         Red Andy (@red-andy)
         19th February 2022, 12:45

         Unless Mercedes somehow knew that Latifi’s brakes were going to catch fire, it was always a gamble keeping Hamilton out. Without that, the car would have been cleared a lap or two earlier and no one would have batted an eyelid at the outcome (except for the odd gnome who would have claimed they should have cleared it under VSC or something).

         I think Mercedes were genuinely boxed in – Hamilton was very unlucky that he caught the Safety Car almost straight away, so he didn’t have a gap to pit into without losing track position.
   2. 

      S
      19th February 2022, 11:16

      As well as this issue with tyres, a standing start at the end of the race obviously is a great chance to make up positions, and I don’t think that is right

      I disagree @f1frog. I think it is very right.
      If they are going to continue to allow all teams to have fresh tyres and free repairs to their cars during red flag stoppages, then they should most definitely restart from a standing start.
      The race has been stopped, the cars repaired/reset – the only logical thing to do is treat the restart the same as the race start. It has absolutely nothing to do with how much of the race distance or time remains.

      Don’t forget that in addition to it being a chance to make up positions, it’s also a chance to lose them. It’s a time when the driver’s skill and racecraft is most important – those who are poor at it are the only ones who have anything to fear from it.

      And I have no idea which unnecessary red flags you are referencing… All them over the last several seasons have been justified.
   3. 

      Qeki (@qeki)
      19th February 2022, 13:09

      If F1 will be a show in the fututre I bet some racing purists will build a new racing series from the scratch where the only show is the racing itself.
8. 

   Srdjan Mandic (@srga91)
   19th February 2022, 11:28

   I don’t know what to make of COTD’s idea. It sounds interesting, but I see at least two major issues there:
   1) What do you do with lapped cars? Do you let them unlap themselves and start from their ‘real’ positions or are they starting in the order they are placed on track (behind the last car they got lapped)?
   2) What do you do when there are big gaps between cars, i.e. 20-30 sec? If you line them up on the grid, some cars will face serious reliability issues due to a lack of cooling for the engine. Do we really wanna see cars retiring because of that?!

   I’d propose a different solution:
   The cars initially enter the VSC and then race direction orders all the drivers to activate the pit limiter or maybe implement another limiter for SC only, i.e. a faster one at 150 kph or so. After everything is clear to go again, the drivers are informed that racing will resume in, let’s say, 10 sec time. That way the gaps would stay roughly the same and there is no fuss about lapped cars unlapping themselves.
   It’s still not a perfect solution, but I think still a lot fairer than either VSC or SC.
   1. 

      S
      19th February 2022, 11:37

      It’s still not a perfect solution, but I think still a lot fairer than either VSC or SC.

      I think we just need to accept that F1 is about track position – it’s not a time trial.
      Fair is when the rules apply equally to everyone – not whether they gain or lose anything from them.
      Luck is fair, even when it doesn’t seem like it.
      1. 

         Srdjan Mandic (@srga91)
         19th February 2022, 12:19

         Of course luck is fair. It’s part of life. Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you don’t.
         However, I don’t think there’s any harm in trying to negate the effect of luck to a ceratin degree.
         1. 

            S
            19th February 2022, 13:17

            Fair enough.
            I think there is great harm, however. Minimising the element of, and consequences of the luck factor (which can’t be planned, controlled or prepared for in advance) takes a lot away from both the sporting side and the entertainment aspect (which is very important, even though some disagree).

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