Magnussen says damage which triggered black-and-orange flag “was nothing”

38 comments on “Magnussen says damage which triggered black-and-orange flag “was nothing””

1. 

   DB-C90 (@dbradock)
   20th June 2022, 1:40

   I wonder if the wing damage was on a RBR or Ferrari car whether the same flag would’ve been thrown. Seems to me that the teams with slower cars tend to suffer from more stewarding interventions than front runners.
   1. 

      Sensord4notbeingafanboi (@peartree)
      20th June 2022, 2:23

      I’m waiting for that opportunity from race 1. Wittich made me feel that way and Freitas is trying to. Race direction needs even more wec like adoptions. We are not seeing any evolution from Masi.
      1. 

         BasCB (@bascb)
         20th June 2022, 7:11

         I do think both of them are more towards being extra cautious with those kind of things, yes @peartree, @dbradock. I think they would have flagged it on a front runner too, afterall Magnussen was running 6-7th when they did that.

         Not sure it is really a bad thing though, do we really want those kind of chunks of wing flying around?
   2. 

      Red Pill (@redpill)
      20th June 2022, 6:44

      @dbradock I truly think any top team like RB, Ferrari and MB would not have put themselves in that position. They would have most likely pitted before getting the flag; like 99.9% of the time when it happens to top teams, for good reason. Their data would have told them that it was not going to be the same track time wise or increase tire wear (less downforce and dirtier air) and with every meter travelled the chances of it getting worse would increase and potentially cause even more significant losses in track position. Haas was acting like a deer in headlights by not doing anything.

      Mag’s first of all should not have put Haas in that position.
      1. 

         BasCB (@bascb)
         20th June 2022, 7:12

         I have to agree with you there @redpill.
      2. 

         Ajaxn
         20th June 2022, 17:38

         It’s not the first time either. He has one chance to mix it up with grown ups, and so this him desperately seeking a bit of notoriety. He might think it’s nothing but it could so easily have wreck Hamilton chances – again.
   3. 

      Ajaxn
      20th June 2022, 17:51

      Your right. Wasn’t it last season we had bits of verstappen’s car flying off and narrowly missing Hamilton in the car behind? Or was that the season before were that bit of car took out his mirror?

      Post-Masi and the hell are these stewards playing at? Looking out for the safety of the drivers behind these damaged cars? In Masi’s day that would never have happened.
2. 

   Red Pill (@redpill)
   20th June 2022, 1:41

   Magnussen easily made the worst play of the day that lead to a damaged front wing. The black & orange flag was not the problem.

   I believe he just did the same exact thing at Spain. Both times it was Haas’s best chances to score very critical points and try improve their very under budget, super limited parts team standings in the WCC points. Under Haas’s current circumstances and watching todays replay video of why he got front wing damage; it wasn’t a good look or anyone else fault. It was a driver mistake and not the other drivers fault (no matter who it is).

   Being flagged with the orange and white was way after he took himself out of any points contention once he damaged the wing. He should instead be directing that anger more at himself. I feel really bad for Haas as this keeps getting repeated by their driver seasons after season. Go back at look at 2018 & ’19 seasons with same kind of contact incidents that really hurt Haas. They’re moving backwards instead of forward.
   1. 

      Sensord4notbeingafanboi (@peartree)
      20th June 2022, 2:25

      Mag matched Ham’s aggression and when 2 drivers that don’t budge race one another, contact ensues. For a team like Haas they can’t afford Mag to hedge his bets.
      1. 

         bosyber (@bosyber)
         20th June 2022, 8:48

         @peartree well, both in Spain and here it ended with him worse of so perhaps at the start of a race that might well have an SC or two like here, it does pay to be a bit more cautions on the 1st lap. As others said, it wasn’t the flag that dropped him out of that position, he was already way down and the flag then sealed it.
      2. 

         Roman
         20th June 2022, 14:21

         Mag again took too much risk in lap 1. HAM was nowhere near being aggressive (maybe he was in your anti-HAM biased mind). In Spain KMag was honest and clear-minded afterwards, when blaming himself for what happened. And he will know that its himself to blame also here. A pity for Haas, cause this team really deserves better results this year, than what they got til now.
   2. 

      Neil (@neilosjames)
      20th June 2022, 7:05

      @redpill agreed. He knew who he was racing, and he knew the profile of the corner they were approaching. The likelihood of completing a pass in those circumstances was more or less zero, but he still shoved his nose into the danger zone for no real reason.

      I’m all for drivers having a go, but (and Magnussen isn’t alone in this) I’m sure everyone in the field has chased enough first-lap lost causes throughout their racing careers to know when to slot in behind.
      1. 

         Red Pill (@redpill)
         20th June 2022, 17:04

         @neilosjames My concern now, is if Haas & Mag’s are in a good position in a start and has the potential to score points; will he drive the same way?

         Can he break the pattern?
      2. 

         SteveP
         20th June 2022, 20:29

         He knew who he was racing, and he knew the profile of the corner they were approaching. The likelihood of completing a pass in those circumstances was more or less zero, but he still shoved his nose into the danger zone for no real reason.

         The collision happened because the driver on the outside didn’t leave enough room between the apex kerb and his own car.

         Quite clear in the regs that under those circumstances, the car on the outside should maintain a cars-width gap for the car on the inside.
         Last year, on a faster corner, and different track, the car on the outside cutting in came to grief. KMag may actually have been lucky to avoid both a visit to the barrier and a post race penalty for causing a collision – even if the only one suffering was himself.

         I suspect that if he had left more room he could have been ahead, if not there and then, probably within a corner or two.
3. 

   PeterG
   20th June 2022, 3:21

   The wing damage may not have been affecting performance but it was at risk of falling off and leaving debris on track or maybe even been collected by another car.

   This is part of why the black/orange flag exists. Not just to warn of damage that could cause problems for that car but also for if that damage is a potential risk to other cars should the bit fall off.

   Was a frustrating call for Kevin & Haas but was ultimately the right decision by race control.
   1. 

      Patrick (@paeschli)
      20th June 2022, 13:35

      He drove several laps with his ‘damaged’ front wing and at no point did it look like there was a risk of falling off. Ever since Masi left, the stewards are way too eager to put the black-and-orange flag out.
4. 

   Elgsdyr
   20th June 2022, 6:50

   Had he waited just one lap pitting it would have been under VSC reducing the time damage. Don’t know what the rules are for getting a black and orange flag, though…

   Almost as bad: When Tsunoda crashed they had the opportunity to pit him and replace those very old C3’s – the timing was perfect as he was at the hairpin when the SC was announced. Instead they kept telling him to stay out as “they were still discussing” lap after lap. Of course after that, he was a sitting duck and was destined to end up last. Changing to fresh tyres (probably C2’s) was his only change to get anywhere near points at that time. Seems to me the team has been making a lot of bad decisions this year…
   1. 

      anon
      20th June 2022, 7:34

      The Sporting Regulations state the following:
      Black flag with an orange disc 40 cm in diameter.
      This flag should be used to inform the driver concerned that his car has mechanical problems likely to endanger himself or others and means that he must stop at his pit on the next lap. When the mechanical problems have been rectified to the satisfaction of the chief scrutineer, the car may rejoin the race.

      As the regulations state that the driver must pit no later than the next lap after he has been shown that flag, if Magnussen had ignored it and continued circulating round on track, he would likely have received further penalties (or possibly even been disqualified from the race).
      1. 

         Patrick (@paeschli)
         20th June 2022, 13:37

         Might as well roll the dice if you are going to finish outside the points anyway.
         Given their was no immediate risk of the front wing falling off (or releasing debris), there should be an option for the stewards to force a driver to repair his car at the next pitstop without forcing them to do a pit stop straight away.
5. 

   Steven Robertson (@emu55)
   20th June 2022, 7:45

   Same old magnusson, throwing away potential points by being too aggressive. HAAS had their best qualifying ever, and still managed to score no points and drop to 9th in the constructors championship.
6. 

   Jere (@jerejj)
   20th June 2022, 7:59

   I disagree. Pitting for the minor front wing damage was as necessary as Tsunoda’s rear wing issue or Leclerc’s front wing damage in the 2019 Japanese GP.
   Interestingly, he compared to Hamilton in last season’s Saudi Arabian GP, where he continued with a damaged front wing until the end, claiming unfairness.
   Weirder thing is how he suddenly started losing positions post-SC, ultimately dropping to last & 8+ seconds back on Latifi. He didn’t pit during the SC, so he had a more worn tyre set than those around, but still.

   Not every with a paddock pass can go into team garages or even commentary boxes, so those have to use teams’ paddock facilities, nothing unusual in this thing.

   I would’ve liked to be involved in that meeting if he really lost his cool to such an extent.

   First, the ‘liked by Pierre Gasly’ meme, & now a game replicating his regular pre-race ritual.

   COTD is right. Car performance level most likely has an impact on their relative approaches.
   1. 

      Jere (@jerejj)
      20th June 2022, 7:59

      everyone, not every.
   2. 

      BasCB (@bascb)
      20th June 2022, 8:05

      I would’ve liked to be involved in that meeting if he really lost his cool to such an extent.

      Well, you might have to watch Netflix early next year, since they were present and filming at the meeting @jerejj!
      1. 

         Jere (@jerejj)
         20th June 2022, 8:08

         @bascb
         Netflix crew may have been with Mercedes in Montreal, but I doubt they got granted access to this meeting.
         We’ll find out next February/March.
         1. 

            BasCB (@bascb)
            20th June 2022, 10:43

            I saw a few media people commenting on twitter that they were really there at the meeting.
            1. 

               Jere (@jerejj)
               20th June 2022, 13:10

               @bascb Interesting. I became skeptical because I thought people in that meeting would be hesitant to bring up matters if they were on camera.
               I guess they were encouraged, knowing no one would hear what they said until long after, with everything outdated by that point.
7. 

   BasCB (@bascb)
   20th June 2022, 8:03

   That crash at Zandvoort really looked horrible. I am so glad that modern race cars are able to protect the drivers so that the guy not only survived but was even able to walk to the medical centre afterwards to get his check up.
8. 

   S
   20th June 2022, 12:02

   Magnussen didn’t need the meatball flag. The wing endplate wasn’t going anywhere – and even in the unlikely event that it had detached, all it would have done is skidded across the ground and into a wall.
   The contact which caused it was 50:50, and (as I said after Barcelona) any driver that doesn’t try to take advantage and gain positions at the start isn’t going to finish up the front in a car such as Haas’.
   The car won’t win many points on outright pace – so fighting for, and taking, track position is really their only chance.
   Let that opportunity go by, and you might as well find another job.
   1. 

      Roman
      20th June 2022, 14:26

      as said by @neilosjames above, who managed to put it into very accurate words:

      he knew the profile of the corner they were approaching. The likelihood of completing a pass in those circumstances was more or less zero, but he still shoved his nose into the danger zone for no real reason.
      1. 

         S
         20th June 2022, 16:08

         That’s nice, Roman, but it’s not really relevant. One of the drivers has to give – and if Hamilton bobbles first, Magnussen wins the place.
         It’s just a game of nerve, and Magnussen has nothing to lose. More often than not he’d finish down at the back of the field anyway.

         I repeat what I said last time – I’d do it too, if I were in Magnussen’s position. If you don’t intimidate, even in low percentage situations, you certainly won’t get up very far in that car.
         In both cases, Magnussen’s opponent (Hamilton) had a lot more to lose than Magnussen did in terms of race finish position, WCC points and marketing image.
         This time again, it didn’t work out for Magnussen – but that’s the game of chance they are playing. When you’ve got nothing, you’ve got nothing to lose.
         1. 

            RomTrain (@romtrain)
            20th June 2022, 16:33

            I think KMag blew up his chances for points again in lap 1, with a try which had close to no chance to work out. Surviving lap 1 on P5 would have been a decent start of the race for him.

            Like after Spain, he will know quite well. And like after Spain some experts here will know better.
            1. 

               S
               21st June 2022, 3:29

               Just different opinions on what we’d do ourselves and what we as viewers want to see others doing, Roman.
               I’m not so keen on ‘racing’ where nobody is willing to try anything risky to improve their position.

               Zero risk is the biggest reason most people who don’t like F1 don’t like F1.
9. 

   Claus J
   21st June 2022, 1:08

   I’m not against attempting to drive alongside another car for the first corners on lap one. And I don’t think the move was particularly reckless, either. It would probably also have worked in a slightly faster car or against a less brutal opponent. In my opinion that was clearly a racing incident and I wouldn’t even put the majority of the blame on KMAG.

   That discussion is, however, moot. What made the move stupid was the fact, that he would have been passed sooner or later by Lewis anyway – what did he hope to gain? Haas must have known that they would be behind the three faster brands and at least Alonso, so trying to defend P8 and P9 against the likes of Ocon, Ricciardo and Bottas must have been plan A, one would think…

   I get that race drivers are made from a competitive material; but a more mature team would have curbed the enthusiasm of their driver and told him to take a boring day at the office after such a qualifying. Sad, really.
   1. 

      S
      21st June 2022, 3:31

      What made the move stupid was the fact, that he would have been passed sooner or later by Lewis anyway – what did he hope to gain?

      Track position, Claus.
      In F1, it means a lot – and is the only way to slow your opponents down. Look at DRS trains, for instance…
      He wouldn’t just have been slowing Hamilton down, he’d also be holding up everyone behind them.

      ALonso at Monaco comes to mind…
10. 

    Claus J
    21st June 2022, 1:11

    Oh, and why, oh why, did Haas choose to let their sole remaining driver go to the line on 63 lap old tires???
11. 

    Claus J
    21st June 2022, 1:28

    I just had a look at the onboards of Ocon (who did the exact same move on MSC in the exact same place as KMAG, only it succeeded) and MSC. Completely normal racing, though Lewis is closing the door real hard… Have a look at 8:25-8:35
12. 

    juan fanger (@juan-fanger)
    21st June 2022, 8:09

    HAM did the same thing to MAG as VER did to BOT at Monza a couple of years ago, i.e. failed to leave a car’s width, but no penalty.

    ALO would have been penalised…
    1. 

       Roman
       21st June 2022, 11:18

       Just rewatched both scenes. Verstappen went into Bottas on the straight when going left under braking and not leaving a cars width, while HAM left a cars width on the straight and they didnt touch until KMag turned into the corner and then in the middle of the corner came into contact with his front wing against HAMs rear wheel.

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