Vettel to demonstrate 100-year-old Aston Martin GP car running on sustainable fuel

35 comments on “Vettel to demonstrate 100-year-old Aston Martin GP car running on sustainable fuel”

1. 

   Steve K
   21st July 2022, 1:48

   Mr. Russell and some of the F1 paddock need some thicker skin. Toughen up man. There is nothing wrong cheering when my driver’s rival is stuck in a gravel trap or booing when he gives an interview. Lighten up, it sports.

   Simply put: don’t cheer when a driver is in a ball of flames, hurled into a catch fence, or rams underneath a tractor that has no business being on the racing circuit.
   1. 

      Esploratore (@esploratore1)
      21st July 2022, 1:59

      People cheered at verstappen’s silverstone crash in 2021, you’re saying 50g+ isn’t enough for people to consider it serious?
      1. 

         AlanD
         21st July 2022, 4:37

         Esploratore, why do you quote the 50g figure? What do you think 50g actually means? You do realise, don’t you, that it is pointless quoting the G-force unless you are also specifying the duration and vector.

         If someone slaps your backside hard, that can produce a brief spike in force of 100g, but it isn’t fatal. Tests on NFL players have recorded up to 63g in tackles and they get up and run back to the line. A boxer punching you in the head might clock up 20g, and will cause severe injury. The vast majority of us are unable to endure 10G vertical for more than a few seconds.

         In the case of Verstappen’s crash at Silverstone, the peak lateral G force of 51g lasted between one tenth and one hundredth of a second. That is the peak G force on the car, not on the driver. Things like seat belts, cockpit padding, and bodywork collapse are all designed to dissipate some of the energy to reduce the forces felt by the driver.

         F1 drivers regularly experience 5G or more just going through corners and under braking. Grosjean’s fireball crash peaked at 67g when he hit the concrete wall. Kubica’s accident in Canada peaked at 75g and he suffered a sprained ankle and concussion. The Swedish driver, Kenny Brack, was in an accident in Indycar in 2003 which saw his car catapulted into the catch fencing, and sensors indicated the forces peaked at 214G horizontally, and is thought to be the highest recorded G in which the driver survived.

         So when people say “50g accident”, it usually means they are saying it because they think it will impress us and make them sound knowledgable, and not because they know what it actually means. Remember, Verstappen walked away from the accident, and the reason he went to hospital was part of a precautionary safety protocol, not because of any actual injury. That’s what matters, that’s the measure of the severity of the crash, not how many G he might have momentarily experienced.
         1. 

            G (@unklegsif)
            21st July 2022, 4:52

            In the case of Verstappen’s crash at Silverstone, the peak lateral G force of 51g lasted between one tenth and one hundredth of a second. That is the peak G force on the car, not on the driver.

            For accuracy AlanD, the readings are taken from standard FIA sensors in the drivers earpiece, not the car

            G
            1. 

               AlanD
               21st July 2022, 12:55

               Hi G, that’s interesting. I hadn’t realised they’d done that. That is a vast improvement as a way of measuring force impact since the most dangerous G forces are thoose going through the head and neck.
         2. 

            S
            21st July 2022, 5:27

            And the reason they determined that Verstappen should go to the medical centre was a direct result of the G-force loading he experienced…..
            The G-force measurement is their metric, regardless of how long it lasts for.
            1. 

               AlanD
               21st July 2022, 12:59

               Yes, he went to hospital because of the safety protocol, not because of an injury. When Horner was going on about Hamilton putting Verstappen in hospital, he was missing out the context, that even when no injury is apparent, certain accidents require a period of observation to be sure. More sports are now adopting concussion protocols, for example, where the majority of head injuries result in nothing more than a headache for a day or two, but gone are the days when the coach told the player to take two aspirin and man up.
         3. 

            jff
            21st July 2022, 6:35

            You do realise, don’t you, that it is pointless quoting the G-force unless you are also specifying the duration and vector.

            I noticed that you failed to specify the duration and vector in all the G-force examples you quoted.
            Someone like you would call that ‘pointless’.
            1. 

               AlanD
               21st July 2022, 13:40

               JFF, when Horner went on TV complaining that Hamilton had caused a 50g crash, I am sure a lot of people watching would have said “OMG, 50g sounds terrible, it is like having a three ton elephant dropped on your chest, fighter pilots can only manage 10g, how can anyone survive 50g”. But the G number is out of context.

               Is 50g bigger than any other crash seen in F1? No, nowhere near, and that’s why I gave examples of what has been reported in the past, to illustrate how the G number alone is not a meaningful measure of the severity. If you thought it was all about the G number you might argue that a previous 75g crash caused a sprained ankle so 50g must be trivial. When people quote that 50g number to make the crash sound worse, you have to ask what do they think would be an acceptable number? 30g? 10g? 2g?

               There are other examples in motorsport where one metric is interesting but should not be taken out of context. The rpm of an engine doesn’t tell us how powerful the engine is or how fast the car is going. When the spring dropped off Barrichello’s car and hit Massa, causing that horrific accident, the speed of impact made the headlines and was easy for people to visualise, but it only becomes meaningful when you also know that the weight of the “spring” (actually a pretty solid torsion bar) was over half a kilo. It is the same with G forces. Interesting in isolation and they give us a way of visualising an incident, but it doesn’t tell the whole story. Horner must know this, so when he stood in front of the cameras complaining about it being a 50g accident putting Verstappen in hospital, I felt he was being economical with the truth to stir up vitriol against Hamilton.
         4. 

            Esploratore (@esploratore1)
            23rd July 2022, 15:50

            “Grosjean’s fireball crash peaked at 67g when he hit the concrete wall. Kubica’s accident in Canada peaked at 75g and he suffered a sprained ankle and concussion. The Swedish driver, Kenny Brack, was in an accident in Indycar in 2003 which saw his car catapulted into the catch fencing, and sensors indicated the forces peaked at 214G horizontally, and is thought to be the highest recorded G in which the driver survived.”

            You mentioned grosjean’s accident where the car went into flames, I think we both agree that was worse than verstappen’s, kubica’s accident I remember being scary, indycar I’m not experienced but you see, all incidents you mentioned are pretty big, my point was that verstappen’s was dangerous enough, ofc there were bigger\more dangerous ones over the years, but you had to get terrible accidents to top silverstone, what I meant is very simple: 50 g is no joke, you wouldn’t want to experience it.
      2. 

         Broke1984 (@broke1984)
         21st July 2022, 7:22

         All this stuff about Silverstone is becoming tiring. At first I also thought the British fans had cheered when Verstappen crashed but I came across a video recently taken from that grandstand that paints a different story. That is that everyone was cheering looking at the battle on the screen and cheering as they came through copse, it happens so fast that it’s not clear whats happened and when Verstappen’s car goes into the barrier everyone gasps and quiets. The only cheering is when he’s getting out of the car.

         I personally hate the booing thing. Doesn’t happen in tennis and shouldn’t happen in F1. F1 is becoming tribal and it’s frustrating when Some of us just want a good race
         1. 

            davidhunter13 (@davidhunter13)
            21st July 2022, 12:58

            Agreed. I keep seeing this being mentioned but I’ve yet to see the proof. People cheered at a super exciting and dramatic race start and battle, once Verstappen had crashed there was nothing but concern amongst the crowd from everything I’ve seen. And cheering when Verstappen got out of the car in one piece.
         2. 

            AlanD
            21st July 2022, 14:21

            Broke, fully agree with that and I am fed up of people continually bringing it up. I am pretty sure when watching it on TV that the commentator was shrieking “He’s off” just like everyone else in the heat of the moment. It’s human nature. In the instant that you think one car has made a mistake and the other one gets through, you are going to cheer. No-one wants to see a driver injured and I’ve never been at a motorsport event where a crowd has carried on cheering once they think the driver or rider is hurt, until the driver is walking away, or stretchered away, as a sign of support and respect for the driver. And I do mean respectful applause, not jeering. I’d hate to think that the partisan mob mentality is taking over.

            I still think that the Silverstone crash didn’t look that bad by F1 standards and am pretty fed up of people talking like it was a monster. Lower speed crashes where a car is squeezed into a concrete wall and then spin round or play pinball look much worse, such as when Mick Schumacher hit the wall in Saudi earlier this year. I found this video of onboards of crashes in F1, and the Silverstone crash looks quite tame compared to some of the others.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnA1PTOcbKI

            Does it make me a bad person to have enjoyed watching that? Out of interest, can anyone tell me who is the McLaren driver at 1:20 who is a little bit annoyed?
            1. 

               Esploratore (@esploratore1)
               22nd July 2022, 0:16

               And wouldn’t you say that every single one of those crashes you mentioned with higher G forces than silverstone were pretty serious\big?
            2. 

               Casanova (@casanova)
               25th July 2022, 18:35

               Out of interest, can anyone tell me who is the McLaren driver at 1:20 who is a little bit annoyed?

               McLaren driver is Raikkonen – you can see it printed on the back of the HANS device as he gets up.
   2. 

      Nick T.
      21st July 2022, 10:39

      Russell seems to always be bitching about something. I really liked him when he first came, but then I noticed he’s possibly the only driver more in love with himself than Lewis and hasn’t quite yet acquired the same leeway.
      1. 

         Mayrton
         21st July 2022, 11:43

         Maybe the toxic Mercedes environment is rubbing off on him? They are not exactly an example of a fair, amicable and sportsmanship like team.
         1. 

            bosyber (@bosyber)
            21st July 2022, 12:10

            LOL, you guys. Mayrton, quoting a toxic comment with that – Nick T. how is it moaning to ask for respect for drivers as human beings?
            1. 

               G (@unklegsif)
               21st July 2022, 14:05

               Quite – from everything I have read and heard from within the team, the culture within Mercedes is the polar opposite of toxic
   3. 

      Talby (@maichael)
      21st July 2022, 11:49

      @Steve K There’s something wrong when people allow themselves to be moved by petty emotions. It’s not civilized, nor is it dignified.
2. 

   ruliemaulana (@ruliemaulana)
   21st July 2022, 6:27

   So it look liked Aramco would be F1 partner for decades to come. They should started to bring up that battery based power are harmful for environment and exposed the child exploitation on lithium mining in Congo and the ocean damage from laterite nickel washing in Indonesia. This way, F1 can distance themselves from hybrid and bring back V10.
   1. 

      jff
      21st July 2022, 6:41

      Good to see that you are evolving away from advocating fossil fuels.

      PS there is a lot of environmentally friendly, child labour free, and sustainable battery production as well.
      It’s up to the customer to demand this, and governments to regulate it.
      1. 

         ruliemaulana (@ruliemaulana)
         21st July 2022, 6:45

         Still. Branding inefficient fuel that no way viable for public use as sustainable is just greenwashing. But yes, it fit for ensure F1 future.
         1. 

            AlanD
            21st July 2022, 15:01

            “Branding inefficient fuel that no way viable for public use as sustainable is just greenwashing.”

            But it isn’t viable for the general public to run vintage cars either, so I’m not sure what the problem is. And to be fair, all fuels start off as very expensive prototypes which would be unaffordable for Joe Public making school runs. I think the current F1 regs require teams to use an E10 fuel (i.e. 10% sustainable biofuels). The fuel mixture is still customised for each engine manufacturer but the final formulation has to be one that could be legally sold at a petrol pump in Europe as E10, i.e. no exotics, no lead, etc. Some years back, Schumacher did a test for Shell where they first fuelled the car with the custom fuel, and then with the highest-octane forecourt fuel available at that time, so they could compare the two. I think the F1 fuel was about a second a lap faster, with the main difference being better low-end performance.
            1. 

               ruliemaulana (@ruliemaulana)
               22nd July 2022, 8:57

               I don’t see a problem with ‘isn’t viable for the general public’ either, as long as they ditched the ‘road relevance’ thingy.
   2. 

      MacLeod (@macleod)
      21st July 2022, 8:09

      Lucky then the futre batteries will be from sand but 100 Year old car on alternate fuel is strange as those engines work on everything as long the fuel can explode……
      Fuel cels on Hydrogen can be a possibilty!
   3. 

      Mooa42
      21st July 2022, 8:10

      Despite the greenwashing and propaganda, I for one appreciate that there will be an alternative to power many historic and current cars long into the future. I’ve been ruing the day that petrol driven cars would only be things we could see in a museum rather than gracing our roads and racetracks at full noise.
3. 

   KaIIe (@kaiie)
   21st July 2022, 8:23

   Thanks to this round-up, I learned what a “space hopper” is.
   1. 

      Antoon van Gemert
      21st July 2022, 9:21

      Never heard of a Space Hopper too, but to me it’s a Skippy Ball, named after the once famous Australian tv-kangaroo, ivented by Italian Aquilino Cosani. So they should have called it the Skippy Ball Race, especially with Daniel Ricciardo taking part in it!
4. 

   RandomMallard
   21st July 2022, 9:57

   I agree with Russell personally. Celebrate your driver’s successes, don’t celebrate another’s misfortune. That’s how I prefer to see it.

   I know exactly what Ricciardo means with that moment of “instant regret”.

   Really hope Zhou can come back strongly, he’s had some pretty awful luck this season.

   That Fenestraz crash was nasty, glad to see he’s alright.

   I was under the impression that F1 had completely terminated it’s contract in Russia, so I’m slightly surprised by that Igora Drive tweet. I can understand them finishing the work they had started, but still talking about the 2023 F1 race seems a bit optimistic…

   Interesting points in COTD there. Interestingly, racing in F2 and doing FP1 is not mutually exclusive, I believe Jack Aitken did both at Styria in 2020. It’s a quick turnaround, but if it’s a track the F2 people know well (especially for second/third year drivers like Daruvala, Pourchaire or Lawson at well-known tracks, such as Monza), they can probably just about manage it.
   1. 

      Captain Pie (@captainpie)
      21st July 2022, 10:33

      Same as you I thought the Russia GP contract was fully terminated… I cannot see how I’m good conscience we can go back to racing there, especially while the war is still going, and Russia is occupying another sovereign nation.

      But then I guess they may be hoping that we’ll forget by then and money talks I suppose. @keithcollantine would be good to find some clarification on this topic…
5. 

   Jere (@jerejj)
   21st July 2022, 9:59

   I never thought Ricciardo’s silly antics would force his teammate out.
   Silly nevertheless, although he still acts slightly immaturely at times, as do others.

   Fenestraz’s car got badly damaged from his heavy-ish barrier hit, but most importantly, he walked away relatively unscathed.

   Doohan might have to wait a while, though.

   Regarding COTD, Everything considered, only COTA & AHR are options for F2 drivers.
   The remaining European circuits & YMC have F2, while temporary tracks (Marina Bay in this case) are always off for using a non-regular in FP1 & Interlagos has only a single FP pre-QLF.
   Suzuka is ordinarily an option, but not this time, given the two-season hiatus.
   Therefore, choosing between the COTA-AHR duo is a must.
   For non-F2 drivers, European locations & YMC are equally viable options.
6. 

   JJ (@jjfrazz)
   21st July 2022, 13:47

   How can Aston Martin claim the Bamford & Martin GP car as their own? Should we start calling the Alfa Romeo GP cars Ferrari’s? I won’t mention “Rolls Royce.”
   1. 

      AlanD
      21st July 2022, 14:36

      JJ, I sort of feel that way when Mercedes nee Brawn nee British American Tobacco nee Tyrell is talked about in the same breath as the original “silver arrows”, and felt even more conflicted a few years back when two teams were both claiming the Lotus heritage.
      1. 

         Bullfrog (@bullfrog)
         21st July 2022, 16:23

         If a war broke out between these teams, who would win?
         (exits, wearing tin hat)

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