Ferrari offered me Raikkonen’s race seat before Red Bull demotion – Kvyat

21 comments on “Ferrari offered me Raikkonen’s race seat before Red Bull demotion – Kvyat”

1. 

   Esploratore (@esploratore1)
   22nd April 2023, 0:07

   Mmm, considering he didn’t perform that well in red bull, ferrari would’ve also been a high pressure environment, but maybe they’re a bit more tolerant to underperformers than red bull are, they kept a declining raikkonen and then declining vettel more than I’d have expected.
   1. 

      Jonathan Parkin
      22nd April 2023, 6:17

      Except he did perform well at Red Bull. In his only full season at the team he outscored Daniel despite starting one race less and got four podiums with the team

      The incident that resulted in him being (unjustly) sent back to Toro Rosso IMO was simply a result that he had got too close to Vettel in the previous race and this (presumably) got him in trouble with Marko.

      In trying to avoid the same thing happening again, it happened again but worse. Had Red Bull then not pulled the trigger on his career, he could have been the one to win the Spanish GP not Verstappen

      And before anybody tells me he isn’t Verstappen, Pastor Maldonado won the same race four years prior
      1. 

         José Lopes da Silva
         22nd April 2023, 11:17

         There is a lot of missing information in your analysis, aside from the presumption that if a decent and performing Red Bull driver would mess up with the team’s former champion in a rival team, Helmut Marko would sack him because of that.

         I wonder why did Ferrari go for Leclerc instead of Kvyat for 2019.

         Kvyat and Mazepin both think of themselves as more competent and performing that they are in reality, both have a tendency to believe in unreal scenarios and both seem unable to cope with their actual performance levels.

         Pastor Maldonado’s win was an unfortunate shame for the History of Formula 1. It downgraded that value of a Grand Prix Win. But it brough us to reality. Every driver in Formula 1 is quick, every driver is able to win a Grand Prix. But to be a Formula 1 driver you must repeat those results after and after and after. Maldonado won a Grand Prix – well, De Cesaris should have won the Belgian GP of 1991, but that would not erase his crashing record.
         1. 

            anon
            22nd April 2023, 12:11

            José Lopes da Silva, there were contemporary reports that Marko did verbally abuse Kvyat for that clash with Vettel in the Chinese GP, criticising Kvyat for clashing with “his driver” – i.e. even though Vettel was now driving for Ferrari, he was still more attached to Vettel than he was to Kvyat.

            Marko has a quite close personal relationship with Vettel – bear in mind that Vettel and Marko sometimes even went on joint holidays when Vettel was at Red Bull. Even now, nearly a decade after he last drove for Red Bull, Marko reportedly still has a close enough relationship with Vettel that he is reported as having recently approached him with an offer to join Red Bull Racing in a senior managerial role.
         2. 

            Jonathan Parkin
            22nd April 2023, 12:31

            It’s possible there is some missing parts to my analysis, but I do see evidence of a hierarchy in terms of drivers at Red Bull.

            Vettel for instance was allowed to alarmingly drop from his previous WC form in 2014 before he voluntarily left for Ferrari and there was certainly a seat for him at Red Bull in 2015 if he had wanted it

            Likewise Verstappen needed time to mature into a WC and this was granted too

            However the same curtesy was not extended to Kyvat, Gasly or Albon.

            And considering that Briatore wanted Piquet Jr. to crash in a race to benefit his Number 1, yes I do believe Marko would drop a driver for crashing into his favourite even though he was at a different team
         3. 

            Ankita
            23rd April 2023, 13:21

            I am still trying to figure out why Maldonado’s win is a shame to F1 ? What’s wrong with that one ? I am afraid there is something ugly in this comment …
2. 

   PeterG
   22nd April 2023, 1:27

   Record for the longest COTD in the sites history perhaps?

   I largely agree though. Strategy can be interesting and can add to races at times but it can also be a detriment to the on-track product if the focus is more on strategy than the actual racing.

   I also don’t like it when it’s forced be it through mandatory stops, Mandatory pit windows or tyres that are designed to degrade.

   Strategy is always better when it’s open, When it’s down to teams and drivers reacting to what they think others are doing and trying to outsmart them. Trying to force specific strategies through artificial means takes away a lot of what can make it so interesting to begin with.

   Thats the whole issue with the forced high degredation concept. It takes something that happened organically during the 2010 Canadian GP and tries to artificially emulate it without actually having any of the things that actually made the higher than expected tyre wear that weekend interesting and exciting to begin with. That been that nobody was expecting it, Nobody had planned for it & nobody knew exactly how to deal with it.

   Race strategy today would be far better if it was more in the hands of teams and drivers with them having more freedom on what tyres they ran and how they use them. And if everyone was more in the dark about what compounds everyone was using.

   Would be interesting to see how teams and drivers would handle strategy if they didn’t know what compounds other cars were running and therefore also had less knowledge in regards to when or even if cars they were racing would be pitting.
   1. 

      Tristan (@skipgamer)
      22nd April 2023, 2:16

      I was late to comment on the article so I’ll repost here for visibility:

      I feel like fans that complain about the current tyres and tyre strategies are a vocal minority. I’d bet F1’s data from surveys of the audience like the excitement that stems from the current arrangement of pit stops.

      Sure they could try something else, but if it ain’t broke… There’s no guarantee switching philosophies would lead to more entertaining races in the slightest.

      And yes, F1 exists to provide exciting races. It doesn’t mean that excitement should come at the cost of sporting integrity but designed to degrade races tyres do not hinder that. The tyres are the same for everyone.

      “Race strategy today would be far better if it was more in the hands of teams and drivers with them having more freedom on what tyres they ran and how they use them.”

      I think that’s an unfounded assumption, it might be, but there’s no guarantee in the slightest. F1 has changed a lot since the 20th century, looking at things the way they were in the first half of the competitions existence and trying to apply it to todays level of technology and investment is a bit disingenuous.
      1. 

         S
         22nd April 2023, 3:18

         Absolutely.
         Nothing is left to chance by the teams anymore. Literally every possible variable is simulated and tested thousands of times in the virtual world prior to even arriving at the circuit. Months before…
         Teams have an enormous library of knowledge on every tyre before they even see it, and they are remarkably consistent from batch to batch compared with race tyres of the past.

         Some oldies like to think everything was better before, but seem to forget that before used to include cars that failed regularly due to poor reliability, handled unpredictably at times, and were far more fatiguing to the driver resulting in more driving errors. A lot of that time also included refuelling, where teams could decide how fast they wanted to go at each pit stop.

         F1 has never and will never be a wheel-to-wheel racing series. Open wheel series in general are usually poorer in that aspect.
         At least with a range of strategy options – preferably with more variables – we get a small chance that something unpredictable or unexpected may happen occasionally.
         With cars still being too spread out in performance (the F1 way) there will always be a need to induce variables.
3. 

   Tristan (@skipgamer)
   22nd April 2023, 2:10

   Hahah riiiight Kvyat, tell him he’s dreaming. It might have been a discussion but there is no way he would have flat out declined a serious Ferrari opportunity.
4. 

   Tommy C (@tommy-c)
   22nd April 2023, 3:19

   I largely agree with COTD. Forcing strategies is kinda silly. No requirement for a stop would make races quite interesting. It can be done as Albon showed in Australia last year. It was such a shame that he had to pit.

   Also, I dare say Steiner would have quite a different opinion if he was Alpine’s Team Principal…
5. 

   Darryn Smith (@darryn)
   22nd April 2023, 3:22

   Bull sh it on Kyvat. Agree with the COTD. Unless you can run a race without a pitstop the strategy is contrived and pointless.
6. 

   Crawliin-from-the-wreckage (@davedai)
   22nd April 2023, 5:06

   Agree with COTD
   Seems though Domenicali has a different view He can have that but I’m offended by the “old people,hands/heads”
   Here from elsewhere

   because now they need to think differently, how to manage development over the year. We are talking about sprint – that could be a factor.

   “You can have more accidents and so on, that’s part of the game so they need to control in a different way. That is better for the unpredictability of the sport.

   “So that is something that has been very difficult to put into the hands of the old people
7. 

   Jere (@jerejj)
   22nd April 2023, 7:25

   In hindsight, he should’ve taken the offer, although even if he did, he wouldn’t necessarily still be at Ferrari presently.

   Steiner’s suggestion is good.

   Fear alongside exhaustion from tense championship battles.

   Still snow in Lapland this deep into the Northern Hemisphere spring, assuming the tweet images are from recent days.

   I largely agree with the COTD.
   I don’t mind the two compounds minimum rule, meaning at least a single stop per driver in a dry race, but good points overall.
   1. 

      Simon
      22nd April 2023, 16:02

      What did you have for breakfast, out of interest?
8. 

   SteveP
   22nd April 2023, 10:33

   Haas team principal Guenther Steiner wants the FIA to set the race position order under red flags using GPS positioning data to determine what order cars were in when the race is stopped

   Surely the fairer way would be to use the GPS and video to determine the positions just before the incident with applied penalties for people causing the incident determining any backward shift for guilty parties.
   The question being whether to have a time penalty or a place penalty. The latter seems more defined.

   I wonder if the place penalty should be one where you have to earn your way out of the debt, so to speak. i.e. Someone with a 5 place penalty when at P17 needs to be treated as effectively at P22, so they need to finish P5 on the road to be considered to be in the points.
   Discuss.
9. 

   MichaelN
   22nd April 2023, 10:47

   COTD:

   I don’t get where the obsession with having to have pit strategy came from.

   Viewers and fans need to be entertained. For the vast majority of people, that means racing for position. To achieve that, you need two things: 1) Differences in pace (bonus points for when this varies over the course of the race) and 2) a faster car behind a slower car.

   Pitstops are a natural way to achieve both, because they were at one point introduced to make the cars faster over a certain race distance. There are other ways to achieve these things, but since they’re more artificial they tend to be less popular.

   At least… that’s what people tend to say. But while reverse grids are often mocked, events where you have fast cars starting at the back tend to be popular and highly rated.
10. 

    DB-C90 (@dbradock)
    22nd April 2023, 11:33

    I’ve said for a while that the problem with the current tyres isn’t the wear, it’s that their delta isn’t big enough.

    If they produced 3 sets with a substantial delta (and corresponding wear), it might just get teams to take more chances instead of every single team adopting the same approach race after race.

    If it became more a matter of 2 or 3 stops on sifts being able to compete with (say) a single stop on medium/hard combos we’d likely see some teams roll the dice more often and we’d see again faster cars cutting through a field more often.

    Currently there’s just no chance of that happening because the tyres simply don’t have a big enough differential for long enough.
11. 

    Short Circuit (@jjohn)
    23rd April 2023, 4:15

    Ferrari offered me Raikkonen’s race seat

    Sure enough when Daniil arrived at the factory there all neatly sealed in plastic was Kimi’s race seat with a note “Daniil will collect”

    Kimi was nearby safety glasses on , angle grinder in hand ,working on his new race seat
12. 

    stefano (@alfa145)
    23rd April 2023, 12:23

    If true, tells you how they rated Raikkonen in Ferrari in those years. Gently reminder that, to date, Raikkonen won the last Drivers’ title for Ferrari
13. 

    Dale
    24th April 2023, 12:29

    Teams should be allotted a set number of tires for the season. Let them decide how they use them. Reduce the number of practices and tire sets if F1 are really concerned about money and the environment.

    The same with DRS. Let the drivers choose when to use it.

    Change the point system – award points from 19 down to 1 all the way down the field. Make 13th more important than 16th will make that racing better..

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