Formula 1 teams should operate along the lines of American sports franchises where the only route in for a newcomer is to buy an existing competitor, says Mercedes team principal Toto Wolff.
He made the comments after FIA president Mohammed Ben Sulayem indicated he was impressed by Andretti Global’s bid to enter the sport with a team backed by General Motors.The FIA invited potential new applicants to submit bids earlier this year. Both F1 and the sport’s governing body have the power to veto any new entrants.
However Ben Sulayem said this week it would be hard to turn down an application from a major American carmaker such as General Motors. “Do we allow anyone to enter? No,” he said to the Associated Press. “But how on earth can we refuse GM?”
At Silverstone on Friday Wolff pointed out few major sports allow new competitors to come in without taking over or replacing another. “There is no mature sports league in the world, whether it’s a national football championship or the Champions League, the NBA, the NFL, the NHL, where such a situation is possible,” he said. “Where instead of just setting up a team and joining – ‘thank you very much for making me part of the prize fund’ – you have to qualify.
“You have to go through the ranks. You have to showcase commitment to the championship.”
He believes an 11th team should only be allowed to enter if they increase the overall value of the championship.
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“If it’s accretive then we must look at it. So far, what we have seen hasn’t convinced the teams. But we haven’t seen the applications and submissions that were made to the FIA and to Stefano [Domenicali, F1 CEO] and they will judge whether that is positive for Formula 1 or not.
Wolff said new entrants should “buy a team” to enter F1, and that adding an 11th team would present complications.
“There is a lot of consequences. When you look at qualifying sessions, already now we are looking like we’re on a go-kart track, tripping over each other. There is a safety concern.
“We haven’t got the logistics where to put an 11th team – in Silverstone we can accommodate the Hollywood people, but on other circuits we can’t.”
Prior to the arrival of F1’s last new team, Haas, in 2016, the last time the grid expanded was in 2010 when three new teams were allowed to enter. This followed the withdrawal of several major manufacturers from F1.
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“The NHL has added teams […] because they have decided to do so, all the stakeholders,” he said. “We have done that in the past when Formula 1 was on the brink of losing teams because of bankruptcy. We increased the numbers of teams and nobody complained about it – on the contrary, we did it to make sure that we have 10 teams on the grid and not lose any. So these two factors are very different, with the NHL to the current situation.
“I still have the belief that this is a league of franchises. And when someone comes in, then it should be like in the NFL where we’re saying, ‘what is it that new team brings to the party?’. And that, I repeat, is for the FIA and FOM to decide.
“We can comment from the sidelines here and obviously our standpoint is clear. We would only want to have a team that brings something to the cake – [if] an 11th teams brings more than what they cost the other teams – more show, more exciting drivers.”
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SjaakFoo (@sjaakfoo)
8th July 2023, 8:40
Man, I remember just a few years ago when teams had to alternate who needed to stay at home and not compete because we couldn’t possibly accommodate more than twenty cars at a circuit at the same time.
Maybe GM can buy the Mercedes team so I don’t have to be bothered by this constant spew of nonsense coming out of Toto. Is this guy ever not double talking to lobby for the preservation of his income? It’s tiring.
Mayrton
8th July 2023, 8:49
He is talking about the need to add value to F1 like he and not the audience should determine that. Well I am the audience (a very tiny part of it) and I see added value in your suggestion.
Coventry Climax
8th July 2023, 14:11
Agree.
It’s not for him to decide upon these things in the first place.
I know a good place I’d like to empty a spraycan of Poly Urethane Foam into.
Nattlorden
8th July 2023, 8:43
One can only wonder which team it is that Toto is so keen on getting rid of… All the fans know what extra value Andretti would bring. But I guess Toto isn’t interested in selling any Mercedes cars in the US? 😎
MichaelN
8th July 2023, 8:48
What would that bring, though? What is their path to competitiveness?
Andretti runs spec or bought cars. They have no experience making their own.
notagrumpyfan
8th July 2023, 9:26
Toto (the teams) should’ve agreed to turn the competition into a franchise when Liberty bought it.
Now they are merely participants with limited guarantees in sport (commercially) owned by Liberty and run by FIA.
SteveP
8th July 2023, 9:43
Yeah, because everyone knows how fair-minded Bernie was and how he would have jumped at the chance to let the teams in on the action…
notagrumpyfan
8th July 2023, 15:30
There was a discussion at the time for the teams to take a stake.
Most wouldn’t have been able to pay the franchise (entry) fee, but they could’ve covered that with a discount in future prize money.
Now Liberty is laughing to the bank. They took the full risk and now have the full benefit.
Nick T.
8th July 2023, 19:55
Bernie actually was extremely open to letting new teams join. Apparently you know nothing of F1 history, except that Bernie = bad. Beyond that, he kept many teams from going insolvent from his own own pocketbook and connections.
MichaelN
8th July 2023, 8:47
The rules are very clear: there is room for other teams and the FIA decides who can enter.
Time to bring this Concorde Not A Cartel in front of an EU court and give them the opportunity to explain why they’re not in violation of antitrust laws.
Proesterchen (@proesterchen)
8th July 2023, 10:08
The FIA can decide which interested party qualifies to enter.
The FIA cannot decide who will get an F1 entry, as per their own words.
S
8th July 2023, 10:30
The FIA’s (actual) own words state that they can allow any teams to enter F1 that they deem suitable, up to a maximum of 13 teams.
What Liberty decides is finances and marketing.
The Concorde Agreement is a commercial agreement – not a regulatory one.
Please read the FIA’s F1 regulations and the FIA boss’ words – not Liberty’s chest puffing statements to the media. We’ve been through this before too many times.
Proesterchen (@proesterchen)
8th July 2023, 10:43
https://www.racefans.net/2023/02/02/fia-invites-applications-for-up-to-two-new-teams-to-enter-f1-from-2025/
This is as clear as things come. The FIA cannot grant entries to Formula 1.
S
8th July 2023, 11:02
Read the rules – not the media.
Sporting Regulations:
8.1 …Successful applicants are automatically entered in all Competitions of the Championship and will be the only Competitors at Competitions.
8.5 All applications will be studied by the FIA and accepted or rejected at its absolute discretion.
For (hopefully) the final time – Liberty has control only of the money the teams can make from F1.
MichaelN
8th July 2023, 11:30
That is not in the rules of the FIA Formula One World Championship.
The Commercial Rights Holder is only named a few times in the F1 regulations, and that is to do with weekend format (due to sprints), livery changes, demonstration events, press conferences and paddock guests. The only real power they are afforded by the rules is in regards to power unit suppliers (mostly in regards to their relations and commitments to competitors (i.e. the teams) and such).
The Concorde Agreement is a very questionable document. One only has to look at how quickly Liberty caved when Sauber and Force India threatened to go to the European Union Competitions Commission over the financial payouts.
Proesterchen (@proesterchen)
8th July 2023, 12:23
The rules of the FIA Formula 1 World Championship don’t apply to entities not currently holding an entry to said World Championship, anyway.
I’d suspect the relevant clauses are part of the Commercial Rights agreement between the FIA and the licensee, likely not part of the public record, so we can only go on what information the parties have chosen to reveal.
Here we have the FIA acknowledging that they cannot grant an entry to F1.
Tifoso1989 (@tifoso1989)
8th July 2023, 10:23
MichaelN,
I doubt that. The EU institutions are hijacked by the United States, their main purpose is prioritizing the American agenda over the interests of Europeans.
chimaera2003 (@chimaera2003)
8th July 2023, 9:12
This is just pure protection of existing F1 team commercial assets, nothing more, nothing less.
Also US leagues do have expansion teams, subject to the various fees being paid similar to what Liberty have currently available as an option to join. This is not a frequent occurrence (last NFL expansion must have been 20+ years ago) but they do expand if it is in the best interests of the league.
Also the comment about “You have to go through the ranks. You have to showcase commitment to the championship.” doesn’t really apply to F1 as there is no promotion/relegation system for teams within motorsport. You won’t know how good you are until you run an F1 team for real, any F2/F3 experience will have limited crossover value with F1 since you have to design your own car.
drmouse (@drmouse)
8th July 2023, 16:25
Exactly. If there was a clear path for teams in Motorsport, a way to “progress through the ranks” and secure promotion to F1, I could agree with Toto’s comments. However, there isn’t.
Note that I do think there should be such a path. As things stand, a new entrant has a huge mountain to climb. They cannot test and hone their skills elsewhere, because there’s nothing like F1 for them to do so.
chimaera2003 (@chimaera2003)
8th July 2023, 18:53
@drmouse Let’s kill two balls with one stone. Introduce a series of regional, ‘second division’ F1 championships alongside the ‘premier division’ World championship with promotion/relegation between one providing a) a structure to learn F1 skills whilst b) providing opportunities for new teams/drivers and more tracks and c) encourage incumbents (tracks/teams etc) to perform better or lose your World championship spot!!!!!!
This is probably all unworkable in practice so don’t take it too seriously and should only be used to see Toto’s head explode when it is put to him!
Nick T.
8th July 2023, 19:57
You’re right. It is unworkable.
drmouse (@drmouse)
10th July 2023, 10:49
I have a few ideas for how to implement it, but they would all be difficult.
My favourite would be an “F1B”, competing in the same races as F1. More restrictive technical regulations, lower cost cap, but compatible with full F1 regs. They have their own qually, line up on the grid behind the full F1 teams, but run in their own championship and have their own podium. Extra points for finishing higher than a full team car on track (i.e. excluding DNFs).
For promotion, I’d probably give the option of promotion to the top 1-2 teams at the end of the season. Not sure how I’d handle demotion…
None of this would be easy to implement, but it would be nice to have something of this ilk. Also, I’m sure many people (on here and elsewhere) would dislike this.
Alan Dove
8th July 2023, 9:19
F1 needs more diversity apparently, but at every turn the draw bridges are being pulled up.
How on earth can we create new jobs when we see budget caps forcing lays offs, teams wanting to block new teams (which will have to hire engineers, designers etc…). There’s never been less drivers available in F1 history too.
So very bizarre.
MichaelN
8th July 2023, 11:41
The fewer teams that are involved, the more money people like Wolff and his fellow investors in the “Mercedes” team get.
Look at how few sponsors teams at the back end of the grid have. They don’t need any! The guaranteed money is that good.
SadF1fan
8th July 2023, 9:41
Ironic, Andretti Motorsport was founded in 1993.
A time when Toto Wolff still had the ambition of being a racecar driver.
And given that 7 out of 10 teams are based in the UK, a new team outside of the UK rather than taking over a team in the UK would be more beneficial to bring the preached diversity and inclusivity.
Proesterchen (@proesterchen)
8th July 2023, 12:27
Mr Andretti and his investors are currently running a base in … you guessed it … England, of all places. 🤷♂️
Nick T.
8th July 2023, 19:59
Probably cause that’s where most of the engineers live and because F1 seems not to take you seriously if you’re not there, unless you’re Ferrari.
Jere (@jerejj)
8th July 2023, 9:51
Yeah, right, just like 12 teams in 2010-12 were a safety hazard, or the same pit buildings didn’t have enough space for them.
Antz (@antznz)
8th July 2023, 11:40
@jerejj I do seem to remember webber launching off the back of one of the slower new cars…
I am all for 26 cars on the grid.
Jere (@jerejj)
8th July 2023, 11:56
@antznz Yes, into Kovalainen in Valencia.
bernasaurus (@bernasaurus)
8th July 2023, 12:08
Seen as Mark & Heikki were okay. It has to go down as one of the most bizarre things I’ve ever seen in F1. Serves as a reminder that these things are quite hairy.
I’m not sure a modern F1 with its weight could pull off a back flip. But Fittipaldi and Webber have experienced something I doubt many of us would want to give a go.
Proesterchen (@proesterchen)
8th July 2023, 10:05
GM are stickering a Renault lump.
No on needs that.
MichaelN
8th July 2023, 11:45
This is an angle that deserves more attention in this whole story.
Andretti has a racing legacy, sure. But what does it bring to F1? How does it plan to win? It doesn’t have any experience making their own cars, not even at a much lower level than F1. It doesn’t have an engine partner that is serious about investing in the project, but who’d only put – as you say – a sticker on arguably the worst engine in F1 that nobody really wants. How would Andretti be different from one of the other teams trundling around the back of the grid, making ends meet on the guaranteed commercial rights payout?
There’s no point in having two extra cars just to give the P21 and P22 badges on the timing screen some use.
Proesterchen (@proesterchen)
8th July 2023, 12:31
On track? Probably worse than Haas, most of the time. But that doesn’t even matter.
Mr Andretti and his investors will be perfectly happy having pocketed several hundred million dollars if they manage to wind their way to an F1 entry under the current financial framework running through the 2025 season, which heavily undervalues new entries.
drmouse (@drmouse)
10th July 2023, 10:56
Until very recently, you could have said the same about at least one team each season: What were they bringing to the sport when they were trundling around at the back every race?
The thing is, we don’t know how they will perform. If they have the financial backing and can bring in the technical expertise, why not allow them to prove themselves on track?
Most new teams, on entering F1 for the first time, will be slow. There is a massive learning curve, there’s no other sport quite like it. Even having competed in lower formulas doesn’t really prepare you for the massive step up to F1. But if we don’t allow anyone to try, nobody will be able to succeed.
Proesterchen (@proesterchen)
10th July 2023, 17:33
How do you get rid of them if they don’t?
Matt Todd
16th July 2023, 15:51
You can never know how a team will perform until they are allowed to compete. If this is the bar there can never be a new team. Andretti may not have a history of building their own cars but they’re not the first to enter who fit that. Andretti has won at pretty much every level in which they have competed, I have no real reason to believe they wouldn’t invest what it takes, and learn what it takes to be competitive.
Tifoso1989 (@tifoso1989)
8th July 2023, 10:09
A mediocre amateur driver, who made it to the sport dealing with shady characters like Colin Kolles and Bernie Ecclestone telling a legendary racing family with the name of Andretti who are preparing a valid entry to go through the ranks. I didn’t know he is so delusional.
Since he is so keen on bringing the NFL into the discussion, has no one informed him about the number of teams in that league?
Tommy C (@tommy-c)
8th July 2023, 10:18
It’s so frustrating hearing these kinds of remarks. So many great drivers made it to the grid and showed their talents in backmarker teams. Minardi was never going to win a championship for example, and everyone knew that. Still, it’s the team that gave Alonso and Webber their big break. Likewise, Ocon and Ricciardo entered the sport with backmarkers. The saddest thing about having so few teams is that great drivers aren’t even getting a chance. Value can be added to the sport outside of a team’s success.
JezH79
8th July 2023, 11:22
Exactly. That and all those designers and engineers that will miss out on an opportunity to get into F1. It’s quite hypocritical to talk about equal opportunities in F1 when there are no opportunities in the first place.
Coventry Climax
8th July 2023, 14:33
It was quite a scroll downwards, to find the first sensible comment (s).
Stephen Crowsen (@drycrust)
8th July 2023, 10:26
This shouldn’t be difficult for F1 to solve. One option would be to give the first 5 cars from the previous race an automatic pass into Q2 (or the 5 fastest Final Practice lap times as the back up option); this would mean instead of 20 or 22 cars circulating the track in Q1 there’s be only 15 or 17 cars circulating the track, which would mean less cars on the track in Q1 than now exists.
Another option would be to divide Q1 into two sessions, where each team has one car in Q1A and the other in Q1B. Someone needs to make a decision on whether the times in Q1A will be compared to those in Q1B. There’s no reason you have to compare those times, and it would avoid arguments about whether or not the track conditions changed between sessions. Obviously the number of cars in Q1A and Q1B will vary depending on how many teams are competing, but if we said there were 11 teams, then we’d expect the top 7 or 8 from each session go through to the Q2, so instead of 5 cars not proceeding through to Q2 you have 6 or 8 cars not proceeding through to Q2, which leaves you with 14 or 16 cars on the track in Q2, and then allow only the top 10 to progress into Q3.
Red Andy (@red-andy)
8th July 2023, 10:48
We had 24 cars navigating Q1 in 2010-12, at least six of which were multiple seconds off the pace of the top teams, and there were rarely problems with impeding etc.
If it’s a serious concern (and I maintain that finding enough space for a clear lap should be part of the challenge of qualifying), the FIA should mandate maximum lap times for in/out/cool-down laps, and penalise drivers who go too slowly.
S
8th July 2023, 10:54
It’s not. They just need to enforce the rules already present in the regs which can prevent them ‘tripping over each other’.
They don’t need to split the field up, and they certainly shouldn’t be giving anyone a free pass for anything at any time.
Sorry – it’s not difficult to solve, but it is difficult for F1 simply because they make it so. Like everything else.
MichaelN
8th July 2023, 11:31
It doesn’t need to be solved. F1 did just fine with more cars not even a decade ago.
Wolff knows, he was involved in F1 back then too.
NewVerstappenFan (@jureo)
8th July 2023, 11:38
It would be ideal to have 12 teams.
Sure buy a team.. But there should be more teams.
10 is just not enough.
Or teams should have 3 cars.
Imagine 3 red bulls on podium.
Coventry Climax
8th July 2023, 14:44
More cars, less teams. That’s a downright stupid idea.
Wolff has been lobbying for it for some time.
… one team to rule them all, and in fakeness fight them.
SteveP
8th July 2023, 12:39
Yeah, even Jos could win.
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
8th July 2023, 23:43
I’d rather take ricciardo then.
Crawliin-from-the-wreckage (@davedai)
8th July 2023, 13:11
Give him a “show cause” notice.
If Horner thinks that’s funny give him one too.
Might just the reset F1 needs.
And if Stefano and or Liberty get too big for their $20 billion or whatever boots remind them any “buyer of what’s left of 113 years” needs FIA approval as fit and proper whatever’s or whatever.
Forget about newcomers needing to buy in.
Want to do it your way pay for your own series.
Or toe the line.
Robert Henning
8th July 2023, 13:42
100 percent.
Crawliin-from-the-wreckage (@davedai)
8th July 2023, 13:46
Sorry I forgot it’s all about the show, and this is the Hollywood round…..
So, Mr Wolff sir,
IT DON’T MATTER WHAT YOU THINK. KNOW YOUR ROLE JABRONI!
Proesterchen (@proesterchen)
8th July 2023, 14:02
That’s no longer the case as confirmed by Liberty in their acquisition proceedings.
Maciek (@maciek)
8th July 2023, 14:08
Ummm, I think Toto needs to brush up on North American sports leagues – they undergo periodic expansion and always have
Proesterchen (@proesterchen)
8th July 2023, 15:56
In the last 20 years, there have been no expansion teams in the NFL and MLB, one expansion team in the NBA and two expansion teams in the NHL.
The new owner of the last NFL expansion team paid $700 million for the privilege, in 1999.
The new owner of the last NBA expansion team paid $300 million for the privilege, in 2004.
The new owner of the last NHL expansion team paid $650 million for the privilege, in 2021.
Mr Andretti and his investors are trying to pay $200 million for an F1 entry worth several times that already.
Nick T.
8th July 2023, 20:05
Except you don’t get that the value of American franchises are way more than F1. The Cowboys ALONE earn more profit than all of F1 combined.
Proesterchen (@proesterchen)
10th July 2023, 9:23
That’s like comparing any F1 newcomer to Ferrari. Of course, they’re not going to be valued as highly as the biggest brand in the sport.
Doesn’t mean the current number in the commercial agreements isn’t undervaluing an F1 entry today by a factor of 3-4, which is the value Mr Andretti and his investors are longing to unlock, preferrably for their own coffers.
Jim from US (@jimfromus)
8th July 2023, 14:55
I think back to the article from a week or so discussing how some teams have large infrastructure and teams that don’t can’t catch up with the cap. New teams may have large infrastructure already in place or can put it in place before entering F1. Toto doesn’t want to be disadvantaged..
MarkWebber (@markwebber)
8th July 2023, 17:10
Any team has the chance to play in the Champions League or a UEFA competition based on sporting merit. Even if the number of entries is limited, all professional teams have a chance to qualify. Only the Americans have completely closed sports leagues.
Pat Pepper
8th July 2023, 19:34
Toto: “new entrants should “buy a team” to enter F1”.
Toto: “You have to go through the ranks”.
Which one of the above is it, Toto? Because those two statements are contradictory.
The other thing which Toto is saying which makes no sense is his use of the word “league”. He really needs to consult a dictionary, because the world championship is in no sense whatsoever a league. There may or may not be other logistical reasons why F1 cannot have an open-ended number of competitors, but they certainly don’t include the reasons why a league cannot have them. Although Toto may have unwittingly hit upon a good idea, because if F1 was a league, at least the same team couldn’t win all the time.
Proesterchen (@proesterchen)
8th July 2023, 20:51
Look at his own history.
He bought a piece of really crappy Williams. Then he went on to buy a piece of rather good Mercedes.
Buying teams, moving up. No contradiction at all.
Dale
8th July 2023, 21:36
LOL, you think spending money in increments is ‘moving up’. How Gen Z of you.
Esploratore (@esploratore1)
8th July 2023, 23:48
Think about lawrence stroll too: first he bought a williams seat for his son, then it wasn’t a good enough car and he bought the whole force india team, which was way better than williams even back then.
I wonder when he’ll buy mercedes… maybe when they get back to winning ways, he can afford it, though I doubt they’d want to sell.
Pat Pepper
9th July 2023, 20:10
I trust that is a humorous answer, Proesterchen, and not a serious one.
Proesterchen (@proesterchen)
10th July 2023, 9:25
It’s a factually correct one. Can’t fault the man who went from owning a slice of Williams to owning half a billion+ of Mercedes for telling others how he did it.