2023 Japanese Grand Prix race result and championship points

55 comments on “2023 Japanese Grand Prix race result and championship points”

1. 

   Edvaldo
   24th September 2023, 7:47

   Perez will struggle to finish 2nd If he keeps driving like this.

   What a embarassing performance.
   1. 

      Dr.D
      24th September 2023, 8:30

      And Alonso lost his third place, and AM will lose fourth to McLaren. I would have loved to see Alonso take that second spot. But not with this car.
2. 

   Jimmy Cliff
   24th September 2023, 7:48

   Go Mercedes and Lewis – costing Mercedes 2 points and probably more :-)

   Lewis being dirty driving yet again getting away with pushing his teammate of the road with his signature deliberate understeer to the outside move.

   Mercedes again favoring Lewis even at the cost of the team – Russell was absolutely right that using Lewis with DRS from Russell to protect both was the best strategy – obviously selfish Lewis pushed for him to be ahead of Russell with direct result that Russell lost the place to Sainz as he was on much older tires and DRS wouldn’t help. Russell even offered to give up 5th place on last lap – so there is only 1 team driver at Mercedes for sure.

   Instead of finishing 5th and 6th, they finish 5th and 7th.

   Let’s hear all the Lewis fan boys defend Lewis pushing George wide – they all complained about Brazil 2021 yet will argue that it is all OK when Lewis does it.
   1. 

      Ben Rowe (@thegianthogweed)
      24th September 2023, 8:00

      Russell is the one costing mercedes. He’s crashed out twice and messed up another time and finished last. A loss of 1 position that may well have been the same regardless is nothing compared to how much russell is costing the team with his errors.
      1. 

         Chrispy
         24th September 2023, 8:07

         Not getting into that teammate fight, but Team Russell’s strategy today was, what shall we say? Optimistic?
   2. 

      Raymond Pang
      24th September 2023, 8:00

      Gotta say that move at Spoon was a mini-version of Max and Lewis at turn 4 in Interlagos. Astonished there was no penalty back then, and somewhat surprised there was no penalty today. I guess the stewards have set a precedent.
      1. 

         MadMax (@madmax)
         24th September 2023, 9:23

         Lewis didnt leave the track, and in brazil Max seemed like he wants to drive til Argentina.
   3. 

      DaveW (@dmw)
      24th September 2023, 8:04

      Russell was so slow, without the swap they lose both positions instead of just one. Hamilton was correct. Russell’s call to one stop, if it was his, cost him the position against Sainz. Russell is not driving or thinking like the heir apparent for that team.
      1. 

         Esploratore (@esploratore1)
         24th September 2023, 8:20

         Disagree, you’re underestimating the effect of drs trains used defensively.
         1. 

            MadMax (@madmax)
            24th September 2023, 9:22

            We saw what Russell achieved with DRS.
   4. 

      Gigantor (@kbdavies)
      24th September 2023, 8:22

      You must have watched a different race. The Ferrari was much faster both Mercedes and had fresher tires, hence it would definitely have overtaken them both.

      It was Russell who was being selfish with his attempt to play strategist and make his optimistic one stopper gamble pay off.

      In fact, Mercedes left the call to invert positions almost too late, as this is what allowed Sainz to cruise up to both of them.

      Also, it makes far more sense to give position to the faster car on the right strategy, and also the driver with vastly more points. Furthermore, P2 in the drivers championship is a reality giving the way Perez is driving.

      As for the reference to Brazil 2021, i bet you didn’t complain about it, so why would you expect others to complain about this? Never mind that the stewards didn’t have an issue with either incident.

      It seems your apparent hate for Lewis Hamilton isn’t allowing you to think properly.
      1. 

         AlanD
         24th September 2023, 15:38

         In fact, Mercedes left the call to invert positions almost too late, as this is what allowed Sainz to cruise up to both of them.

         Giagantot, remember that the pit radio we hear on TV is always delayed and reviewed before transmission, so although it looks like they left it until Hamilton was all over the back of him, the race engineers would have made the call earlier. Remember as well that all teams can hear other teams radios in real time, so race engineers don’t want to give those calls too early as it gives the competitor, in this case Ferrari, too much time to respond. So a late call should be fine, provided the driver doesn’t want to debate it and just gets on with it.
   5. 

      melanos
      24th September 2023, 8:57

      What a missed opportunity for a double Merc DNF. Keep at that, Sir, you’ll achieve it someday soon.
      1. 

         MadMax (@madmax)
         24th September 2023, 9:35

         The biggest threat in these terms is Perez
   6. 

      MadMax (@madmax)
      24th September 2023, 9:20

      Your stupid Hamilton hate blurs your vision.
3. 

   Jere (@jerejj)
   24th September 2023, 7:49

   The points lead means Max will clinch the championship in the sprint if his advantage is at least 172 after that session.
   A surprisingly lot of DNFs & all into the garage, with both Checo & Logan clumsy into the hairpin.
   Checo’s brief return was surprising unless he merely did that to serve a possible 5 or 10-sec time penalty to avoid a 3-place grid penalty for Qatar.
   1. 

      Kotrba
      24th September 2023, 7:56

      I was bewildered that this was allowed.

      If we assume this is ok, then teams could use this in many different ways. Returning the other car to put rivals into traffic, or to post fastest lap and take one point away from a rival team etc.
      1. 

         Jere (@jerejj)
         24th September 2023, 8:11

         I agree & as such an action seemingly has never been against the rules, I’m surprised no one else has ever done since post-2005.
         FIA might close a loophole as a reaction.
      2. 

         RBAlonso (@rbalonso)
         24th September 2023, 8:16

         I’m not really sure what the issue is to be honest. I don’t like the idea of cars rejoining to upset the outcome but what’s stopping them doing either of those actions with Perez running 11th and slowing down to 15th for example? At the end of the day it’s to do with etiquette – I wouldn’t put Checo back in the race but getting 3 place grid penalty at the next round when you’ve retired here is equally stupid officiating.
      3. 

         Raymond Pang
         24th September 2023, 8:18

         It surprised me more that they retired Perez in the first place, with an impending penalty, unless the car was unsafe to carry on, and they subsequently repaired it before Perez rejoined.

         I suppose you could just force cars out if they go beyond, say, 10% race distance behind the leader. But then there’s the possibility of safety cars where you can unlap yourself, so that would be a difficult one. Also you don’t want to encourage cars staying out in an unsafe condition to take a penalty.
         1. 

            MacLeod (@macleod)
            24th September 2023, 14:21

            Yhey wanted to safe gearbox and engine wear that is why they did it but a penaulty not served is a gridpenaulty for next race.
         2. 

            AlanD
            24th September 2023, 16:07

            I suppose you could just force cars out if they go beyond, say, 10% race distance behind the leader.

            I think that is a fair thing to do. We have a 107% qualifying rule because there was a time when cars were being lapped multiple times per race, and when a car is that slow, it has no chance of scoring and is just a potential hazard to other cars, a potential obstacle that could ruin a driver’s race result. Your 10% rule would be the equivalent of being lapped five or six times, and Perez was what, about 20 laps down, more like 40% race distance. I could have some sympathy with a team going out again in the first few races of the season, because they want some track time to better understand the car, expecially if they’d lost the time because someone had run into them, but Perez’s problems were of his own making.

            As a side note, on your point about cars unlapping themselves under safety car, I always thought this was a stupid idea. I think it was dreamed up because they wanted the race leaders to be fighting each other on the restart, without a backmarker between them, for the sake of the show, but it always seems unfair on the other cars who have earned those gaps and track positions the hard way.
      4. 

         S
         24th September 2023, 8:31

         I hope they do. Cars should be on the track if they safely can be, not in the garage.
         If the points system was better, there would be more incentive for all cars to try and finish every race.
4. 

   Peter Bromley
   24th September 2023, 7:52

   There’s only one driver in it – you need a telescope to see the rest!
5. 

   Edvaldo
   24th September 2023, 7:52

   Get a grip on yourself man.

   This cant be healthy.
6. 

   Raymond Pang
   24th September 2023, 7:53

   I wonder if someone could work out how many points the Max vs the competition would have if Red Bull hadn’t bothered to field a second car. My gut feel is that Max could win the constructor’s title single-handedly
   1. 

      Chrispy
      24th September 2023, 8:03

      It’s there in the table. Max has 400 points which is a 95 point lead over team Mercedes and a 115 lead over team Ferrari. However, strictly you need to take Perez out the equation, I suppose, and elevate the point of everyone else, but in a couple of cases that would also elevate Max’s points! It would be one way to accommodate the salary cap …
      1. 

         Raymond Pang
         24th September 2023, 8:21

         You haven’t factored the points changes if you took Perez out, so in a fair few cases the Merc drivers would have gained more points, bringing them closer to the 400. But alas, I bet still nowhere near.
      2. 

         Raymond Pang
         24th September 2023, 8:22

         Sorry, this was a reply to the wrong comment.
      3. 

         Dr.D
         24th September 2023, 8:37

         Yeah, but I believe someone is paying for Perez his seat. So in the end, it doesn’t really matter.
         But you made me chuckle.
   2. 

      David (@nvherman)
      24th September 2023, 8:03

      Well, Verstappen has scored 400 points, Mercedes have scored 305 across both cars, so although RBR wouldn’t be crowned Constructors Champions today, it would still be the most likely outcome
      1. 

         Kotrba
         24th September 2023, 8:19

         You would first need to cross out Perez results from all the races and thus other drivers had more points in that scenario. In that scenario Verstappen would also get few additional points (for Jeddah and Baku) but others would get much more, so probably he alone would not secure Constructors (only maybe by the end of the year, if Mclarens keep finishing 2nd and 3rd).
   3. 

      Jimmy Cliff
      24th September 2023, 8:18

      If Red Bull benched Perez for the season Max would have had at least 15 more points (2 more wins instead of 2nd places and 2nd instead of 3rd in Baku sprint) maybe a few more FLAP.

      To that extend Perez took more points of Max than any other driver this season.

      As others pointed out, Max alone holds 95 point lead over Mercedes, that would have been 110 without Perez. Obviously without Perez RB would not yet be constructor champions in Japan.
      1. 

         MadMax (@madmax)
         24th September 2023, 9:27

         And you convieniently forget to count the points which all others would have achieves more withour Perez? So much orange smoke in some ppls heads…
7. 

   Kotrba
   24th September 2023, 7:54

   First Hamilton x Russell duel was the highlight of the race. But Ham just drove him off the track later on.

   Possibly not worth a penalty, but unnecessary at best and very shortsighted in my opinion. This year Mercedes have nothing to fight for and thus it is the best opportunity to set some relationship between the two drivers, but instead they seem so tense about the other driver for much of the year.

   Russell has had no real luck moments this season and Mercedes´s orders at the end of the race seemed stupid (even if it meant that Sainz would take them both) or do the Mercedes still keep hope they could clinch second in drivers? Second in constructors seems tall shot as well at the moment. Today Sainz was sacrificed for nothing, Ferrari had the pace to keep both cars ahead of Mercedes.

   Norris will climb through the standing quickly now. Mclaren will steamroll Aston Martin as well.
   1. 

      Gigantor (@kbdavies)
      24th September 2023, 8:12

      Mercedes´s orders at the end of the race seemed stupid (even if it meant that Sainz would take them both)

      This is exactly why you aren’t a strategist or team principal in Formula 1.

      Sainz would have overtaken them both, and they left the call to invert positions almost too late.

      It makes far more sense to give position to the faster car and also the driver with vastly more points. Furthermore, P2 in the constructors is a reality giving the way Perez is driving.

      I’d say stick to your day job.
      1. 

         Gigantor (@kbdavies)
         24th September 2023, 8:13

         I meant P2 in the drivers championship….
         1. 

            melanos
            24th September 2023, 8:52

            P20 is more like it
            1. 

               MadMax (@madmax)
               24th September 2023, 9:28

               very intelligent maths of yours.
      2. 

         Kotrba
         24th September 2023, 8:29

         Even if Perez only has two solid races in the rest of the season, that is 36 points for him. Add the current deficit of 33 points and you stand on 69 points. Hamilton´s average for the 16 races so far is 12 points for a race.

         They would be tied on points at the end, and that´s only in case Perez takes points in those two races.

         The chance is very slim.

         I will stick to my day job, thank you. But what I am saying is even is Sainz overtook them both the points swing in Sainz/Ferrari favor would be minimal. Taking that into account, the team should have stick to the non-favoring between the drivers at this moment. Russel has every reason to leave disgruntled, he was pushed wide and later had to let Lewis through.
         1. 

            Kotrba
            24th September 2023, 8:40

            Plus I am not convinced that either Mercedes or Ferrari desire second in the WCC. Only for prestige reasons, but both teams would certainly love to have more development time at their disposal.
      3. 

         Esploratore (@esploratore1)
         24th September 2023, 8:29

         You can’t overtake people in a drs train used effectively.
         1. 

            MadMax (@madmax)
            24th September 2023, 9:29

            Seems like Russell wasnt able to use it effectively then
            1. 

               melanos
               24th September 2023, 14:23

               GR’s strategy (or Merc’s strategy for GR) was disastrous even in a DRS train he had it very hard to avoid being overtaken even in a DRS train
   2. 

      Fahlen
      24th September 2023, 10:44

      Russell has safety cars helping him at Monaco and Baku, he just made mistakes afterwards
8. 

   Chrispy
   24th September 2023, 7:56

   The fact that Alpha Tauri still have a mathematical chance of finishing second in the constructor’s championship shows how early in the season Red Bull’s victory has been achieved. What a car! And Max potentially WDC next race? Only Perez has a mathematical chance, but unless Max DNF’s it’s game over dude!
   1. 

      Jere (@jerejj)
      24th September 2023, 8:15

      Not only the next race, but sprint already as his points lead is above the amount available post-sprint, so merely finishing higher than Checo would be enough or sixth if Checo were to win the sprint, etc.
      1. 

         melanos
         24th September 2023, 10:00

         From the top of my head, there are 6 races left and only one sprint (Losail). That is: 26×6 =156, +8: 164 points left máximum. Max is ahead of Checo by 177 points, so he should have clinched it already.

         Obviously I’m wrong, but what am I missing?
         1. 

            melanos
            24th September 2023, 10:08

            Ok apparently there are also sprint races at COTA and Interlagos, that’s 180 points. The Losail sprint should be enough for Max
            1. 

               melanos
               24th September 2023, 10:09

               And that’s not my avatar by the way, no idea where it came from
            2. 

               notagrumpyfan
               24th September 2023, 16:43

               And that’s not my avatar by the way, no idea where it came from

               That’s the Gravatar image linked to the email account you entered when you submitted the previous comment.
               It’s either your own email and avatar, or you lucked into using somebody else’s email who also happens to have registered a gravatar.
9. 

   Pravin Panchal
   24th September 2023, 9:38

   What RBR thought difficult to understand, they wanted experience wingman and they got rookie inconsistent
10. 

    MichaelN
    24th September 2023, 10:09

    That points table is just embarrassing.

    What are the other eight teams even doing with those hundreds of millions they spend on these cars?
    1. 

       S
       24th September 2023, 10:13

       Not betting it all at only one of their drivers.
       1. 

          MichaelN
          24th September 2023, 13:14

          Whatever their motivations, it’s not working out.

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