Let drivers change set-ups to avoid “ruined” sprint weekends – Verstappen

34 comments on “Let drivers change set-ups to avoid “ruined” sprint weekends – Verstappen”

1. 

   Jere (@jerejj)
   13th October 2023, 6:22

   How about no, just get on with things without exceptions?
   Same for everyone in the end.
   1. 

      Robert Henning
      13th October 2023, 7:34

      Whatever he’s suggesting is also the same for everyone….

      And it reduces the show aspect. Unsure what point you’re trying to make here.
      1. 

         AlanD
         13th October 2023, 11:59

         Robert, I think if you go back a few years, when Hailton was winning a lot, if he was quoted as making any complaint or suggestion about the running of GPs, someone would wade in with “just get on with it” and accuse LH of wanting specialist treatment etc. The most successful drivers don’t just have fans, they also have antifans who feel obliged to criticise anything they say or do, no matter how illogical that criticism might be. MV still has some way to go though to reach Hamilton levels of mindless intolerance.
         1. 

            osnola
            13th October 2023, 16:02

            MV still has some way to go though to reach Hamilton levels of mindless intolerance.

            Not on this site!
         2. 

            Robert Henning
            13th October 2023, 16:56

            Thanks for a detailed response. Much appreciated.
   2. 

      BasCB (@bascb)
      13th October 2023, 7:48

      Yeah, they do not need a perfect setup – he showed he can still easily win. And if others are better at dialling in their setup in the limited scope of one session, let them have that slight advantage, I am sure Red Bull is capable of developing that too, if they want to.
      1. 

         Manny
         13th October 2023, 9:52

         I’ve no idea what the issue is, here. Max has usually been the one who’s set up the car we’ll versus his teammates, and he’s never really struggled to get the best out of his car either (helps that RB is easier to set up than the diva Merc, for instance, ig).
         This allows teams and drivers a chance to refine and bring the cars closer in performance to the leading car. Furthermore, it reduces the penalty on lower budget teams who may not have dedicated sim drivers.
      2. 

         AlanD
         13th October 2023, 12:09

         I really don’t think that was what MV was saying. Red Bull have shown time and again that they can put a car on track and get it right first time, so if anything, it is the smaller teams who are disadvantaged by not being able to tweak set ups. Do you deny the basic point he made that cars that do well in the sprint also tend to do well in the main race?

         For me, the sprints are a failure because they don’t offer anything different to the main event. I am sure when they were conceived, with the short format, and just the top three scoring points, we were told this would lead to high pressure racing and lots of overtakes, as drivers battled for a handful of points. In practice it does nothing of the sort. The only thing I can say in their favour is that they don’t impose a mandatory pit stop. If they really wanted them to be different they’d have one lot of qualifying and run the grid in reverse order.
         1. 

            baasbas
            13th October 2023, 13:09

            @AlanD
            Fair point. If anything, bigger teams like RBR are at an advantage with these testing limitations. More resources to test in (better?) simulators. They’ll probably get it right more often than smaller teams
   3. 

      Craig
      16th October 2023, 14:49

      What he’s suggesting would be the same for everyone. Sprint weekends are ill thought out as they are, locking drivers into a guessed setup they only have an hour to do anything about being one of the format’s many ill thought out details.
2. 

   baasbas
   13th October 2023, 7:32

   But it’s got electrolytes
3. 

   SadF1fan
   13th October 2023, 7:49

   Agree with Verstappen.
   Locking the setup in, means that you are basically watching 4 similar sessions during a sprint weekend. They may be competitive session but after friday quali, the other 3 are a foregone conclusion.
4. 

   That guy
   13th October 2023, 8:10

   COTD: “while not making any mistakes” just doesn’t go for Hamilton.
   I would say Baku, Imola, Hungary, Monaco were not his best weekends.
   1. 

      Esploratore (@esploratore1)
      13th October 2023, 8:25

      Yes, like I said too in answer to the other article, verstappen’s season was very close to being perfect, hamilton’s wasn’t, at all, he drove well in the 2nd half, but the mistakes you mentioned cost him, or in the case of imola should’ve cost him a lot of points.
      1. 

         MadMax (@madmax)
         13th October 2023, 13:37

         its easy not to make mistakes when Max doesnt need to drive his car close to its limit.
         1. 

            Doggy
            13th October 2023, 14:18

            @madmax are you serious?

            One thing is to support the driver/team of your preference, and other its to completely create your own reality so you feel better about yourself.

            I know this is going to be a waste of my time, but I’ll give it a try.

            Baku: Max was out of the race. So there’s no way he could interfere with Lewis

            Imola: Lewisalmost hit a back marker all alone.

            Monaco: Bottas did a significantly better job. So there’s no reason to blame driving to the limit

            Hungary: Botta took Max out. So there’s no way he could interfere with Lewis.

            And can keep Giving you more examples.

            2021 probably was the only season, in over a decade long, where the contenders had even machinery during the entire season.

            As I mentioned in a different thread. Lewis did in 2021 what no other driver in the grid could have done (but Max in this case) he was outstanding. Just as he has been throughout his career.

            I have zero doubt that no one else, in the history of F1, but Lewis has earned his sit based on merit. But that does not mean that Max drove better in 2021.

            I kindly invite you to incorporate more reason and logic into your posts. Doing so will not only enhance the quality of your contributions but also benefit everyone else in the discussion.
            1. 

               Nick T.
               13th October 2023, 23:43

               Alonso could have done better than what Lewis did in 2021. Lewis has an extra 1% when it comes to speed, but no one on the grid, including Max, has his metronomic consistency. Particularly his consistency in races. For a man with the most races in F1 history, I can’t think of a single time he took himself out of a race.

               BTW, it doesn’t change Lewis’ amazing talent that one of F1’s GOATs could have done a better job. Max and Lewis were always running away from the entire field like everyone else was in F2. Bottas and especially Perez were almost always a pit stop or more behind. The only race of the season Bottas was legitimately faster than Lewis in 2021 was Monza where he had the back luck of incurring a PU penalty.
            2. 

               Nick T.
               13th October 2023, 23:45

               BTW, I meant to specify an extra 1% when it comes to quali speed. Not race pace though. Hardly matters though.
5. 

   Ajayrious (@ajayrious)
   13th October 2023, 8:58

   Verstappen makes a really good point (but nobody will take it seriously because its him saying it). I really want to see them being able to make changes between sessions (and not just on Sprint weekends either).

   When you lock down the setups after one session, you’ll just end up with the same car performances throughout the weekend. The pace in qualifying is the same as the Sprint is the same as the pace in the full race and thats not very interesting unless the conditions are radically different between sessions.

   Allowing them to change the car creates differences, which means that a car which qualifies near the back might find something and we might, god forbid, get something called racing and overtaking.
   1. 

      MaddSusie (@maddsusie)
      13th October 2023, 9:28

      Verstappen does make a very good point.
   2. 

      tielemst
      13th October 2023, 10:56

      Nonono, that’s way too logical and would require the show being dependant of the teams making changes. Why would you do that when you can fiddle with mandatory pitstops, DRS and BoP?
      1. 

         AlanD
         13th October 2023, 12:11

         Tielmst, BoP? I cannot for the life of me think what that is.
         1. 

            tielemst
            13th October 2023, 13:14

            Balance of power. Used in endurance to level the playing field, only a matter of time before it’s tested in F1. With the inevitable polls that show enormous support.
            1. 

               S
               13th October 2023, 14:26

               Balance of Performance, to be correct.
               And it’s already being ‘tested’ in F1 with development/testing resources being limited or extended in inverse proportion to each team’s prior results. (Red Bull gets less as champion, Williams gets substantially more as wooden spooners)
            2. 

               AlanD
               14th October 2023, 3:05

               Thank you both for the explanation. I hadnt heard that term before and was thinking maybe BOP ws Big Old Pirellis.
   3. 

      MichaelN
      13th October 2023, 11:57

      When you lock down the setups after one session, you’ll just end up with the same car performances throughout the weekend.

      Maybe, but Red Bull did much better in the Singapore race than they did in qualifying; conditions, stint lengths, etc. all influence the performance.

      And in a normal weekend format, by the end of FP3 everyone has pretty much found the optimal setup so there are no changes there either, at least not between the sessions that attract a live TV audience.

      Having any limits on setup work is of course artificial, but F1 teams always want everything to be 100% optimal and what so often happens is that the most entertaining and challenging races are those where things don’t go according to the simulated plan.
   4. 

      SteveR (@stever)
      13th October 2023, 14:14

      Totally agree, you posted exactly what I was going to post.
6. 

   Moshambles (@moshambles)
   13th October 2023, 12:42

   Always liked the look of that 2013 Merc
7. 

   lynn-m
   13th October 2023, 14:00

   Max is 100% right. There shouldn’t be a parc-ferme preventing setup changes at all at any point of the weekend and they should be allowed to make changes to the car setup right upto the start of the GP.

   But then it’s pretty clear that Liberty care only for the show so I guess creating more of an artificial lottery is all they are interested in trying to create. I mean at one point I seem to recall that they were pushing for parc-ferme to come in as soon as cars exit the pits at the start of FP1 meaning no major setup changes at all over the weekend.

   The pinnacle of the sport should be about teams & drivers able to make changes throughout the weekend looking to maximise performance at all times rather than been handicapped in hope of spicing up the show. You want to watch a spiced up show then watch one of the lesser categories but many of us who love F1 & have done for a longer term are interested in the technical & pure performance aspect, If you limit that then whats the point of watching F1 over any of the lesser categories that it increasingly seems like it wants to emulate.

   Probably no wonder that as it further degrades into Formula GP1 show many people who consider themselves hardcore fans who have been watching a long time are starting to tune out due to disgust at the liberty show direction that has done nothing but make the sport of F1 look like an embarrassment the past few years.
   1. 

      SteveR (@stever)
      13th October 2023, 14:15

      +1
8. 

   grat
   13th October 2023, 14:12

   With the engine restrictions, transmission restrictions, curfew, budget restrictions, etc., I’m not sure there’s a point to parc ferme any longer.

   I know it was created to stop teams from creating insane “qualifying only” cars, but that’s not feasible any longer. During the last race weekend, Vowles gave all these reasons about “qualifying engines” that could only run a few laps– but you can’t do that if it counts against your engine total (and cost) for the year.

   With the cost cap, it’s not like you can show up with one set of aero bits for qualifying, and another for the race.

   At the very least, allow suspension changes, wing adjustments and changes to “small” parts like brake ducts (ie, what is considered “set up changes”). It’ll improve racing, and isn’t that the goal?
   1. 

      S
      13th October 2023, 14:51

      With the cost cap, it’s not like you can show up with one set of aero bits for qualifying, and another for the race.

      The teams certainly can create different aero packages for different sessions under the budget cap. They can spend their annual budget on pretty much whatever they like, even if it’s a complete waste.

      It wasn’t particularly well publicised and has since been basically forgotten – but a few years ago F1 cut back official scrutineering (mainly due to the increased complexity of modern F1 cars) and made it much more the responsibility of the teams to ensure their own cars were legal. Semi-random specific inspections became the norm instead of complete technical interrogations.
      As such, Parc Ferme is the only (or at least, most efficient) way to ensure that the cars and parts that have been approved by the FIA are the only ones being used throughout the competitive sessions of the event – without having to return to daily official scrutineering.

      It’ll improve racing, and isn’t that the goal?

      Well, it doesn’t necessarily improve the racing – actually the racing would likely suffer more than it benefits – as it doesn’t just give the slower cars more opportunity to refine their setups. Like everything else in F1, it benefits the teams who collect, analyse and interpret the data most efficiently – which is almost always the largest, fastest and wealthiest teams…

      Another factor behind this isn’t costs, but logistics. The teams transport so much stuff to each event as it is – giving them free reign to change their cars after every session just allows/encourages them to create and transport more stuff.
      Like it or not, F1 is officially aiming for carbon neutrality, remember…
9. 

   Moi
   13th October 2023, 20:17

   I don’t get why we need a setup freeze at all during the weekend; isnt tuning the car as best as possible the point? It’s not as if there is an unlevel playing field in this regard.
10. 

    Bullfrog (@bullfrog)
    13th October 2023, 21:58

    What about wet weekends? They always seem to be on some compromise setup these days, they need all the help they can get on you-know-who’s rain tyres, and surely it’s a safety issue.

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